Monday, April 22, 2013

Quote: self-importance

From Brain Pickings:

Think of it: zillions and zillions of organisms running around, each under the hypnotic spell of a single truth, all these truths identical, and all logically incompatible with one another: ‘My hereditary material is the most important material on earth; its survival justifies your frustration, pain, even death’. And you are one of those organisms, living your life in the thrall of a logical absurdity. 

Robert Wright in The Moral Animal

104 comments:

  1. Replies
    1. Agreed. It also pithily explains a great many things about society at large.

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  2. Oh my goodness! Awesome article dude! Thank
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    ReplyDelete
  4. Hi. I have a question about sociopaths, I just place it here because is the most recent post. Sorry if it was not the right place.

    I am an empath who almost got romantically involved with a sociopath. There are some trends I like from sociopaths like their open-mindedness when talking about subjects. If they are smart sociopaths you can have very interesting non-emotionally biased conversations. It is something that hardly happens with empaths since they usually get very closed minded when talking about subjects that are related to their values. So, I thought that we were very much alike till I realized he was a sociopath…

    There is no way I am getting in a relationship with a sociopath but I still care about him and I would like to keep him as a friend. (I like the “exotic bird” concept ;) ) The thing is that Mr.Sociopath is not very much into it, his goal was a relationship not a friendship. I still think that we can both enjoy the friendship but I don’t know how to make the message pass. I think he is still blocked in his power games to get me do what he wants, which is impossible. He is a sociopath, I am sure he can accept not to have a relationship with me or with anybody. He has other friends, and I could definitely fit in the category, I think the blocking factor is just that it was not the “category” he planned to place me in from the beginning. Is there a way to get a sociopath to get out of his initial goal mode?

    It is almost impossible to negotiate with him. He uses the silent treatment whenever I don’t do what he wants. And like that it is very hard to get anywhere at all.

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    Replies
    1. He's bored with you. And trust me, since you put an end to his game, he has no use for you anymore

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    2. Is it not possible to be a sociopath's friend? That a "game" is cancelled does mean that there is no space for other "games"? Would it be of any use to keep away for a while (how long?) so he forgets what happened. I have the feeling sociopaths disregard the past pretty quickly so maybe it's possible to get back to a fresh beginning.

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    3. You are probably lying to yourself about what he means to you.

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    4. I still care about him and I would like to keep him as a friend

      Why? I don’t buy the ‘exotic bird’ rationalization either.

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    5. I'm an empath, I care about people I like. But I will never have a relationship with a sociopath, that is crystal clear to me. There are still things I like in him so I see friendship as a good option, but as much as with the other friends I have, which are also people I like and I care about.

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    6. But a friendship is a relationship. Not a sexual or romantic one, but a relationship nonetheless. You say he isn't good enough to have a romantic relationship with, but he is good enough to be friends with? I find this contradictory.

      I agree with Monica. Judging only by the story you shared, I'd say you are lying to yourself about what he really means to you.

      *I deleted the previous comment when I realized I posted it in the "wrong" place.

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    7. I acknowledge he is a sociopath, so I won’t ask for a care that I know he will never give me. This means I will never start any kind of “romantic” relationship with him. For me friendship is much wider, and it can include many kinds of people and intimacy levels, you just have to accept their limitations. I accept we will not be emotionally close but I am not emotionally close with all my friends and definitely he is not with his, but he still has friends.

      I think we are block because he is in one “goal mode” and, since he is a sociopath, I know the only way is to try to make him switch to another “goal mode”. So my question was about how to help him doing that.

      *(same mistake O:))

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    8. A few questions:

      You acknowledge that he is a sociopath, but does he? How do you know he is a sociopath?

      Friendship, as I understand it at least, requires a type of caring as well. If he is to be no more than a mere acquaintance, why bother attempting to maneuver him into responding the way you want him to? You say he has emotional limitations, which I take to mean you know he can never care about you the way you’d like, yet you want a friendship with him, even if it’s just a casual one...? Casual relationships don’t require extended strategy sessions with strangers on the internet. That’s why they are casual.

      Jessi, the questions you are asking aren’t really about him; they are about you. If you really care about him, wouldn’t you respect his desires and let him go gracefully rather than looking for tips on how to manipulate him? You aren't going to give him what he wants, so why should he give you what you want?

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    9. He is pretty much a sociopath by the book. Once you are able to spot it (which takes a while) you have no doubts.

      I am not going to give him what he wants, and he is not going to give me what I want (care). This is the point in which we are now. That’s why I think a friendship “sociopath-like” can be fine with both of us. I can be a sociopath friend with a sociopath ;) I think the important thing in friendship is the existence of some equilibrium. He can give me some things, others not, and I think I can do the same for him. Care doesn’t have to be in the list. (I will still probably care, as an emotion, but I will treat him alike).

      If I care about an empath, I respect his desires. I will treat him like an empath, he will also treat me that way. But when dealing with a sociopath, I think that's different, because they are also different.

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    10. Tom the Uber AspieApril 22, 2013 at 10:48 AM

      What makes you think you know what he will enjoy?

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    11. That is what I am trying to find out: what he enjoys that I'm willing to provide, so I can also have what I want from him.

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  5. I would say you have no choice but to fuck him every day, maybe 3 4 times a day till he's sick of your face and you'll be good.

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  7. I acknowledge he is a sociopath, so I won’t ask for a care that I know he will never give me. This means I will never start any kind of “romantic” relationship with him. For me friendship is much wider, and it can include many kinds of people and intimacy levels, you just have to accept their limitations. I accept we will not be emotionally close but I am not emotionally close with all my friends and definitely he is not with his, but he still has friends.

    I think we are block because he is in one “goal mode” and, since he is a sociopath, I know the only way is to try to make him switch to another “goal mode”. So my question was about how to help him doing that.

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    Replies
    1. Ask yourself, in your deepest heart, you don't need to tell us, but WHY are you trying to control him?

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    2. I am not trying to control him. I just think that his sociopathy is fixing him in a goal which makes no sense for none of us and that there is a better option.

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    3. It clearly makes some kind of sense to him. Everyone’s actions, no matter how irrational they appear to us, are perfectly rational to themselves. His responses don't work for you. You want a better option; better to you, for you.

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  8. Nice to see this here... now.

    Life is about life.

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  9. Why do people put so much thought into things? Who cares if he's a sociopath. Just figure out exactly what it is you want with him, go for it, and if the universe agrees with you he'll want the same thing. Can't guarantee he always will, but you can't predict these things for sure with any relationship. People change, sociopath or not. How complicated do you have to make a simple yes or no choice in regards to a potential tryst? Is it an empath thing to create drama and conflict where it doesn't need to be? And they say antisocial is a "dramatic" personality disorder...please

    If you wanna fuck this guy, indicate that to him. If you don't, offer to be platonic and if he doesn't like that then well that's how it goes sometimes.

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    Replies
    1. Ah, no, no drama. I don't like drama either. I was asking for some tips. That's all. At the end if nothing works, nothing works. I was asking for thoughts, but on the tips ;)

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    2. You people are so typically irrational. How can you say you don’t want drama when you say you want tips on how to manipulate someone else into being something to you that they don’t want to be? Drama is exactly what you want. Conflict is the essence of drama and you have made it clear that his desires conflict with yours. It's a game and you want to win. You want to outwit him for reasons that make sense only to you, for some dubious goal that you are likely lying to yourself about. Typical.

      But what the hell… Why don’t you just try to seduce him? Make him think he has a shot to get him to reengage, then back away. Play hard to get. Make use of his psychological blind spots. Then somehow demonstrate that you are of value to him as a "friend".

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    3. They want the "magic beans", Dan. They want something that will change people to suite the reality they want without all the conflict, drama, work, and effort.

      That said, Dan is right about the seduction, reengagement, soft teasing, and eventually enlightenment. It's a tactic that could work and should work provided you are willing to forth some "effort" and "work" for what you want. Nothing worth having ever came easy and nothing easy was ever worth keeping. HO...

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    4. Yeah it would behoove people to understand that you cannot be that one person that "saves" someone from their usual ways. It's not gonna be a fairy tale where everyone ends up happy. It's reality, whatever that means, and someone has to lose. The best thing you can do in my opinion, is not try to play his game, because you're not him. It would be trite to try an beat him. I'm sure he's seen it all before. I think you should be direct and confident with him. Open communication. Ask him what he wants. Maybe tell him what you want. Just because a sociopath might be vague with you doesn't mean they will accept the same in return. You have to deal with the fact that it's going to be a double standard at times. But I know I appreciate someone when they directly ask me what I want and then try their best to give it to me.Or at the very least come close to it.

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    5. Thanks for the tips :)
      Dan, sociopaths don't want drama when they manipulate, why do you think I want it when I try to get what I want?
      What do you refer by "psychological blind spots"? "Then somehow demonstrate that you are of value to him as a "friend". " How to do that? What does a sociopath wants from a friend?
      TUA, The tactic of "seduction, reengagement, soft teasing" just perpetuates the goal chase circle. No change. Anonymous, the open communication changed nothing either. It was one way open communication. This doesn't mean there was no answer, just that it was as if open communication never happened.

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    6. Sociopaths want what they want. Drama is nothing more than a useful tool or entertainment. You, on the other hand, are in denial about it all. Which is exactly what I mean by a psychological blind spot.

      A psychological blind spot is a truth about yourself that you don’t want to know. It’s the proverbial elephant in the room. It’s the thing you know not to mention in your loved one’s presence because you know that you will hurt them or enrage them (or both) if you do. It’s his buttons; press one of them and watch the feelings fly. All of that is what I mean by psychological blind spot.

      What does he want out of a friendship? What does he gain from the friendships you say he has? What could you give him, as a friend, that would make it easier for him to see you that way? How does having you as a friend benefit him? Provide something that he wants, only make sure he knows that he’ll only get that from your friendship.

      You can be generic and say “a sociopath” wants power, sex, money, a distraction from boredom, etc. But the object of your seduction isn’t “a” sociopath; he is your sociopath. If you wish to manipulate him, you should make him an object of your scrutiny, so that you can tailor a strategy that will work on him.

      I suspect that you won’t be successful though. You won’t even take any of this advice. Your own psychological blind spots all but guarantee your failure.

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    7. I will take your advice... Thanks.

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    8. It's true. If you want him in your life just do your best to remain useful and relevant. He may be content with a strictly platonic relationship IF this friendship offers benefits he cannot easily acquire elsewhere, but you'll have to be prepared to accept that what he wants is likely to be rigid, yet fleeting. Yes, that is possible. Your own wants may have to be compromised, but since YOU want HIM in your life, you ultimately are getting what you want to a degree if you comply by his wishes and whims. I am involved with someone similar, though not a sociopath. But they were clear on their wants from the beginning, and that it was my job to ensure I am always what they want. Some of my own wants are not met in this relationship, but my major want is to have this individual in my life and I have it. You are better off attempting to coexist with your alleged sociopath because you are not going to outsmart them.

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  10. I understand it all, I just have no feelings to show it.

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  11. Jessi i was in your boyfriends position. Ill tell you what i told that stupid bitch. i dont do friends after. I you dont want to be with me then get the fuck out i hope you end up in the fucken street.

    That said i still love you and if you want to come back and be my slave again ok :)

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    Replies
    1. XD XD I was never your slave. That's the part you never understood ;)

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    2. Hey, guess what?


      Both stop lying.

      Banana

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  12. btw are you certain your almost-lover is even a sociopath? Because that seems to be what a lot of chicks say about any guy who doesn't see completely eye to eye with them. Seriously what's with men calling their exes/female friends borderline and women calling their exes/male friends sociopaths and/or narcissists? Sometimes people are simply not as compatible as they once thought they were. And all romance is selfish until it becomes the spiritual "agape" kind.

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    Replies
    1. Pretty much yes, I didn't have the same experience with other guys I was not compatible with. People might lie sometimes or be more or less controlling or selfish still that doesn't make them a sociopath.

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    2. Bottom line, I think you are lying to yourself, mucho.

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    3. Lying about what? I believe I have pretty clear the line not to cross with a sociopath. I know I can just be a tool for him and with that in mind I am trying to arrange a setting that is OK for both of us.

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    4. This is what I think happened. A gorgeous sexy guy came onto you. You thought you could control it by telling him you just wanted to be friends. He dropped you and now you are scrambling to get him back. You better watch out or YOU will be the exotic pet on the chain.

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    5. A gorgeous sexy guy came onto me... that's true, then I got to know him better, finished terrified and set the friendship boundary. I don't control people and I don't like people to control me, manipulate me, treat me like a pet you give rewards when you behave how the owner wants. And I don't like the anger, the blaming everything but themselves, the pretended self-pity, the lies, the excuses, and then again the repetition of the circle, with the sweet words and the rewards. I don't think anybody can be happy in a romantic relationship with a sociopath. In my opinion, the best to do, is to evaluate what you want to keep from him and to try to give him something in exchange so the deal can work.

      At the beginning the seduction skills of my sociopath looked just like good seduction skills. The funny thing is that when he “won” he did not stop the chase mode. Initially I thought that he was not aware that he had won, but at some point I realized that he could just not quit the chasing mode. There was always some kind of restlessness in him. I wonder if sociopaths can actually can ever be happy.

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    6. Why do you think a friendship would be any different? It'll be the same but without the meaningless facebook "in a relationship with..." status. You either want him in you life, unconditionally or you don't. He is who is he and if you truly are his friend you accept that. But you're missing out on what could've been some good sex. I mean if he's restless...

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    7. which is what you'd need anon 3:15, good sex. might do you some good

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    8. My prediction
      You will run after him, have sex with him and he will dump you. Stop lying to yourself. We don't accept lies on here, as you can see.

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    9. Are you saying I could use good sex or Jessi? I didn't think my comment reflected a need for "getting some". You must be trolling ha. I think we all could though unless we're asexual.

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    10. Mwah :**

      Opening your legs for someone who lies, manipulates and fucks with your head is low, though.

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    11. anon 3:42 can go fuck her dead father

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    12. Anon 3:42 is a male whose father is alive.

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    13. anon 3:42 is getting old and is still alone

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    14. interesting that you felt the need to mention that you're a male don't you think

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    15. or perhaps i am yet another anon making a contradictory assessment of your anon for kicks

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    16. you're a coward that's what you are

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    17. says another anon
      ha
      is this Tyler?

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    18. dude you need to get over those bitches that cheated on your already. and stop talking about shitting your pants so much. do you still work at pizza hut?

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    19. i think i saw you once but i chose not to say hello

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    20. well what do you expect from an aging female coward with a deceased father?

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    21. wanna know the difference between funny people and those who aren't? funny people never try

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    22. right so how's georgia?

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    23. Anon, Apri 22, 3:15pm Not all the people I want in my life I want them unconditionally. The ones I want unconditionally are pretty few, actually. I accept who he is and therefore he has passed to the conditional zone. And sex is better with an empath.

      Monica, maybe that is what you would do. I have no interest in having sex with him. He is not the last man in the world. There are many more men out there and they are even empaths, also gorgeous and sexy. I think you are imposing on me a tunnel-vision I do not have.

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  14. Perhaps after this we should stop referencing "exotic pets" haha because these spam ads for quality labrador vs retriever info things keep showing up

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  15. I think Monica's prediction is right on. It's a waste of time and energy to expect something "normal" to come from a relationship with a sociopath. People usually learn these things the hard way. In any case enjoy the roller coaster ride.

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    Replies
    1. but nobody cares about what you think....

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    2. To have a relationship : you give me this - I give you that, it is for me not "normal", it would be a friendship-sociopath-compatible.

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    3. I understand how you feel but that's just a fantasy you have. You're looking for a way to hang on. You will be giving a lot more than he will and you already are. Is that what you want? Plenty if men you could have a friendship like that with. You don't need him. The fact that you're trying to manipulate it says more about you and your issues. Besides he may not want this with you then what?

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    4. "Giving more than he will". It is not about who give more or less is about that the deal is fine for both. I know I don't need him, this is not about needing, is about wanting. I want something from him and I am asking opinions about who to make the deal since he is a sociopath and this is a sociopath blog. If at the end there is no deal, well, there is no deal, so "then what?" Then nothing. Like anything in live, if you want it, you try to get it, if it doesn't work you go for other things. Some comments point issues that don't exist. I am objective oriented, maybe that's why I still want to have a sociopath in my life ;)

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    5. I'm not sure anyone can give you tips. I guess the only thing I could say to you is don't believe one word he tells you. Not one. Nothing else to say.

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    6. You got that right Sister.

      "How do you now when --- is lying?

      His lips are moving."

      I want more. I want someone who can feel. Who wants to feel. Who wants a romantic relationship with me. Forever.
      End of story.

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  16. Oh brother. Well YOU must care somewhat cause you commented.

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  17. See? Everyone here is just horny. Especially Jessi and angry anon. You two should meet up or Skype.

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  18. Hi. I have daddy issues and i want to be friends with all my exes so i can have 317 daddies. The more daddies the better. You socios got a problem with that?

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  19. I am not using the name Jessi.

    Banana

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  20. It was not me who called the vultures... Don't blame me...

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  21. Are there 3 of us (anons) or 4 of us? or more?

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  22. Jessi reminds me of Bluebird. She was so arrogant until the sociopath got her pregnant and left her. Then, she got humbled fast.

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    Replies
    1. Nasty, nasty, nasty ~

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    2. I am honest. I healed from honesty, so I give it. Truth is love even though it seems mean at the time

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    3. Got me pregnant? Hahaha And, why do you think pregnancy would make anybody humble or not humble? There is abortion. I don't see your point.

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  23. My point is that you are a very arrogant young woman. It seethes out under your questions. Arrogance usually meets with a bad end of some nature. Take it or leave it.

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    1. I don't think I'm arrogant, otherwise I would not be asking for advice. What I don't understand is why most of the answers are about issues that have nothing to do with the tips I was asking for. I think I got just 3 real answers to my question.

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    2. Because people on here can see the you, under the obvious question. Many people on here are super perceptive, so you can the real answer, not the one you want.

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    3. Monica, I'm sorry that you don't like my story and that you prefer to one of me trying to controlling him, then he leaving me and now wanting him back for sex. But that it is just not my story. So I guess even super perceptive people make mistakes sometimes. I really want him just as a friend and he is stack in the relationship goal mode. Sorry for being the kind of people who asks what she wants and not something else...

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    4. You can't expect people to coddle you on here. A) It's difficult to accurately convey what you mean via text and B) This isn't a place for sensitivity to be guaranteed.

      A misunderstanding is very likely. As is people making negative assumptions regarding your situation because they are getting bored. This abdurdist post should have served as a warning that people might not see a point to your "problem".

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    5. I found people pretty sensitive, actually, (I became Birdick's fan) and I was referring to the people that actually did the effort to answer but did it out of the scope. I am used to filter out the absurd posts. It is just something you get used to do on the internet, I guess. Thanks to all who answered.

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  24. what is going on with this post? ha the comments/multiple arguments make little to no sense

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  25. Jessi is a liar.


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