Real life sociopath encounter?

A reader pitched me an encounter he had with a stranger that he suspected was sociopathic and asked if he could have done anything better than he did:

I enjoy reading the Sociopath World blog.

I have had difficulties with sociopaths in my lifetime.  Myself being a little different, I seem to be viewed as easy prey.  

It seems impossible to remove myself from a situation with a sociopath whether it is a long term relationship or short term encounter.

The frustrating part is I feel I am able to politely remove myself from any situation I might encounter with a sociopath but I feel even being polite does not work.  I have seen situations where a person asks another person politely asks someone to stop doing something and the person physically attacks them.

Here is a scenario I encountered recently at a casino.

I walk up to a slot machine.  A person who I realized later on was a sociopath is sitting at the chair at the machine I want to play.  Here is the dialogue and what transpired.

Me: Excuse me.  Is anyone using this machine?

Sociopath:  No.  Do you want to use it? ( My thinking already was this guy is probably an arrogant sociopath.  OF COURSE I WANT TO USE IT.  I am sure in his mind he was being polite by putting the power in his corner by asking if I want to use it.  As if he is being a nice guy doing me a favor. If I was sitting at a machine and someone asked me this I would just say "No" and get up and leave.).

Me: Thank you.

The sociopath sits at the chair next to me.  He was dressed and groomed appropriately but I am the type of person that can figure people out easily.  He looked like he just got out of jail.

I proceed to play and begin winning huge.  It was insane how much I was winning.  When winning reels came up the sociopath would calculate how much my winnings were as if he was doing me a favor.  After I hit the spin button on the machine he would put his hand up and pretend to control the reels on the machine.  (I was thinking how could he not realize he was being as annoying as fuck.)  He would also give me fist pumps.  This guy was annoying the hell out of me and knew eventually he would ask me for money.  I was actually afraid of him and wanted nothing to do with him.  But the machine was so hot I could not leave.  I thought I would be able to play along, be friendly, and get the hell out.  I even gave him a beer for free.  I was in Las Vegas so drinks are complimentary so it cost me a $1.00 tip.   I jokingly told him that he was a good luck charm 


After one winning spin he says, "Gimme some" in a half angry voice.  He thought it was funny but he couldn't care less how inappropriate it was.  I stared at him for 10 seconds hoping he could get the message I was not giving him a dime.

During my conversation with him, he told me how he was moving to Las Vegas for his brother. I could tell it was a lie.  I asked what he did for a living.  He said architect which was horseshit.    He asked me what my favorite type of food to eat was.  I said Italian.  Of course he tells me his is also an Italian chef.  This guy saw dollar signs and was spewing lies everywhere.  

At this point I was thinking how crazy he was for thinking I would believe his crap.  I thought my only way out was to pretend to be his friend and hope that would be enough for him to not rob me.  

Two hours later I racked up about $2.5K on the machine.  I was ready to leave.  I wanted to say, " I am tired.  I am going to get back to my hotel room.  My girlfriend must be wondering where I am."  I didn't.  

I was afraid even being polite and reasonable with him would make him angry.    I asked if he wanted to go to another casino with me.  I thought about not cashing in my TITO (machine payout slip).  I could say to him "I do not want to carry around this much cash."  I decided to cash the TITO to show him my trust I had.  

I told him I would drive.  So here I am in a car with a sociopath and $2.5K cash.  We get to the casino.  I end up winning another $500.  Fast forward we get back in the car and I take him back to his hotel.  He asks if I could buy dinner for his "good luck charm".  I gave him $20.00 and felt like I got off cheap.   It was a traumatic experience.

My questions are. 

Would a raging sociopath like this have pulled a knife and robbed me in a casino with a million cameras?

Would being reasonable with him have gotten me out of the situation?  

What should I have done?

My response:

I actually think you played this pretty well? I mean, I probably would have never gotten in the car with him, but maybe that was what was necessary to continue the evening in a way that didn't interrupt your plans while waiting for him to get kind of tired of you? I.e. you never provoked him until he got over the dangerous initial period in which he was likely to act on impulse. You know what I mean? Like after he had been around you for an hour or two, any impulse to attack you would have been less strong and less likely to be acted on until you were just another possible opportunity that never came to fruition? I don't know.

But what does everyone else think?

When and why to let a sociopath know they've hurt you

From a reader:

Hi M.E., I would love your opinion or insight on this, if you have time.

One of my friends is a high functioning, non-violent sociopath. I love him, and even though I'm an empath, I share a similar mindset with sociopaths. I kind of understand the neurobiology of sociopathy, so I don't get caught in moral reasoning regarding right and wrong doing--I don't even believe in free will, and see human interaction within the context of evolutionary game theory.
But, I do realize that reminding myself of that is not easy at times, and removing my skin from the situation to see what's really going on requires an effort.

Also, rationalizing and understanding doesn't change the fact that I want to feel cared for, so I sometimes get a bit sad when he is indifferent and inconsiderate.

He is not abusive, I don't feel exploited, in which case I would just move away.

We engage in interesting conversations and I know he enjoys being around me. He always ends up next to me on social gatherings and I notice his eyes on me when he thinks I can't see him, which I find flattering even though I know he wouldn't give a fuck if I died.
I really appreciate the fact that he is open about his shallow emotions, he doesn't lie about his feelings.

It's difficult for me to figure out the best way to let him know that I care about him but I feel kind of hurt sometimes (not often, though).

What kind of dynamic do you think works best to maintain a healthy friendship based on your own experience? Do you think it's a good idea to let him know when I'm upset? Tit for tat? What kind of response, if any, would have a positive impact on you?

Thanks for reading, I love that you are also open about your inner life and that you're trying to make this world a better place for a minority that also deserves to be understood. We all need love and compassion.

(I'm not a native English speaker, so I'm sorry about any mistakes.)

M.E.:

What would be your motivation for telling him when and why you are hurt? That would be really helpful in letting you know if it's likely to be successful. Because if you're trying to tell him that you're hurt in order to provoke an emotional or empathetic response, you are likely to just become more hurt at the lack of response. He's probably unable of meeting your needs on that point.

But if you are just trying to give him feedback, like conditional behavioral therapy feedback, then he probably would appreciate the extra information for his data mining efforts. This is not as true for sociopaths, but when people are criticized without their invitation, they often react poorly and defensively and don't end up internalizing the criticism. So it's as if the criticism had no value, even a negative value because now they trust you less for having attacked them and been disloyal (in their minds). Even with sociopaths, it's probably best practices to ask permission to give them feedback on your experience of them. Also it is probably best practices to wait until you are not feeling particularly emotional about the situation (which is actually more important when dealing with sociopaths).

Reciprocity

Recently I have been struggling to keep a particular (and essential) professional relationship in any sort of equilibrium. If I act too professionally, I am considered cold. If I get too friendly, I'm accused of "handling" this person, of pretending I like them just to get them to produce better/more work. This person insists that I instead be completely honest and only do anything nice or social with them if I actually "want to," as opposed to merely keeping the wheels greased in our professional relationship. You can of course guess how this person reacts, though, when I am really honest, e.g. telling them that actually I don't want to go out to dinner every weekend and would really rather keep the relationship more professional, etc. Complicating issues is that this person has basically guessed who I am, or at least is aware of some of my more dominant characteristics; in fact, until recently we have laughed and joked about my ruthlessness around the office. And finally, the cherry on top is that this person is an aspie, and not just an aspie but a high strung, short-tempered, angry and emotionally oversensitive aspie. (Either it is my profession, my personality, or both that seemingly make me an aspie magnet).

I have put up with so much in this relationship -- accepted basically every idiosyncrasy of this person and adapted to it. For my part, I get criticized and apologize daily for small hurts I have "inflicted." But if I ever so much as refer to any of Aspie's numerous failings, I am accused of kicking someone while they're down. Aspie wants us to be "besties" instead of "frenemies" or even "water cooler colleagues", but I'll never be truly close with someone for whom I have to not only custom-tailor every response in a way that feels so unnatural to me, but also fabricate an elaborate fiction as to every sanitized-for-consumption thought I never actually had, down to the most intimate detail. I can play make-believe as well as anybody, but there are limits. In the meantime, I desperately need Aspie's technical skills in a very time-sensitive project, so I grovel when I need to, and screen calls when I can't muster up anything else. (Aspie if you are reading this, please do not find where I live and kill me and then you in a murder/suicide).

A reader presents what I thought was a relatively similar situation:

I think my ex-boyfriend might be a sociopath, and to be honest with you I don't really care all that much. We're still friends, but I seem to keep setting myself in the line of fire and getting hurt in some fashion. The result is me being upset and him being frustrated because he feels that I have no reason to be upset, and he doesn't think that he did anything wrong.

I want to make our friendship work, because like it or not...I'm hopelessly addicted to this boy - to the point that I don't even care how he feels about me. If he is a sociopath, then I'll know, and I'll be able to tailor what I say and do accordingly in the interests of avoiding future confrontations of the same nature.

We get in disputes, and he somehow knows exactly what to say to end it. Whether it's an apology, a promise, etc...But I always get this weird feeling about it. He's very attentive when I explain how I felt wronged, but not because he feels bad that I feel that way- because he's trying to dissect the feeling that I'm having, so that he can calculate what to say that will counter it. Then he'll come up with a conclusion that he thinks completely solves the problem, and it does - but I always get this underlying feeling of contempt from him. Like he sees me as some sort of authority figure that he's trying to outsmart.

You said: "Like he sees me as some sort of authority figure that he's trying to outsmart." He probably does feel that, in a way. He has to edit himself, restrict himself, and sugarcoat himself for everyone else that he probably resents when he has to do it around you too. He probably thinks that since he accepts and accommodates everything about you, why can't you do the same?

How to maximize utility of socio relationship?

I thought this was a remarkably insightful comment, left July 7, 2013 at 7:56 AM

HOW TO BEAT A SOCIOPATH ... is the wrong question. If you're trying to beat, that means you're engaged in a competition, and non-socios tend to get revved up by their emotions during competition and thus will make it very difficult for themselves to "beat the socio", while the socio expends much less effort to pick at the non-socio's weaknesses.

Instead, the proper question for non-socios is "How do I maximize the utility to me of the socio relationship?"

In some cases, there may be no utility, so just terminate the relationship, or get out of it with at little damage as possible. In other words, you're in a hole, stop digging, don't try to beat or compete with the socio, just tend to your own needs. Do not feel sorry for the socio, or try to make the socio regret or repent, just leave. (If you can't control your own emotions, particularly to stop worrying about the socio, then you certainly aren't going to be able to control anyone else, including the socios, who are very good at control.)

If there is possible utility, then strictly enforce your boundaries, so the socio cannot damage you. Constantly assess whether you are getting enough from the relationship; do not worry that you are being selfish, trust that the socio is doing the same calculation for themselves, and will leave if they aren't getting what they want, so you can just worry about your own needs.

The tricky thing is to realize that socios imitate emotions to manipulate non-socios. If this satisfies your utility need, then great. Otherwise, realize that the socio has limits, and if you impose unrealistic expectations on the socio, you will just get burned.

It reminds me of this recent tweet:

"I am no more using them than they are using me."
— M.E. (@sociopathworld) January 24, 2014

Touchstone

Sociopaths and normal people are not so different. We're more like different breeds than different species. Different breeds of dogs can co-habitate and produce other great dogs, and I think sociopaths and other normal people can enjoy a similar result. Dogs have it easy, though. They have an owner or master to mediate differences between them, such as intervene during a useless fight. I think having a third party mediator would also help ensure a successful socio/normal relationship, whether business, family, or romantic. Perhaps a therapist or a trusted friend could fill this role – an enforcer that the sociopath will trust or face certain consequences, like the end of a relationship. This is, of course, assuming that the sociopath wants to be in the relationship, otherwise the threat of the ending the relationship is not much of a threat at all.

I think that the main problem in a socio/normal relationship is the inability to understand the point of view of the other. Little things aren’t dealt with, needs aren’t being met, misunderstandings abound. If there is some need that is consistently not being met or problem that is not being attended to in the relationship, it will eventually build up until it is blown out of all proportion, like medical diagnostic shows where people go crazy or blind because they have a copper deficiency. To even be able to pinpoint the problem, you have to be able to describe it accurately, which can be harder than it looks. I just read an article about it being difficult to diagnose appendicitis in small children because they aren’t able to accurately describe the locus of their pain – they don’t have the vocabulary or shared experiences with their doctor to do so. I think something similar happens with sociopaths and normals, that problems could be addressed if only they could first be identified. In the meantime, something so simple as a nutritional deficiency or small infection left untreated could easily compound into something serious or life threatening. These little problems can do so much damage, but many of them are very preventable if you knew what to look for.

I think this is why a knowledgeable third party would be crucial in helping the sociopath/normal get past the inevitable impasse -- someone with the emotional/intellectual equivalent of dynamite to blast through all of the bullshit. A touchstone to keep things from getting out of hand.

Somebody besides the cops.

You are what you eat

I am very impressionable. I am so impressionable that the self that I call mine seems to be no more than a hodgepodge collection of everything I have thought, everything i have experienced, everyone I have been around. I used to be very reckless in my youth with what I did, what I chose, what I thought. I wanted to try everything and everyone, wanted to know what else was out there in the world. Everything I did changed me, though, for better or for worse. I didn't realize it at the time, and didn't really realize the extent of it until relatively recently. That thought has made me more circumspect.

I feel like this must be true of non sociopaths as well, but maybe to a lesser extent. Maybe they just don't acknowledge the inherent fluidity of the self? It's interesting to me to think that my body is made up of everything that I have eaten. There is literally nothing about my body that I haven't ingested at one time or another -- not my brain, not my heart, not my lungs, not my eyes or teeth... it's weird thinking that I am made up of cheeseburgers.

People want to know why sociopaths have a hard time letting go sometimes. Some of it may be the thrill of the hunt, the sting of defeat, or vindictiveness. I think for me it is mainly because everyone that has ever been close to me has become a part of me. Like that Paul Young song, every time they go away, they literally take a piece of me with them.

Socialized

A reader recently asked me if a sociopath could be socialized not to act like one. I responded:

Maybe this analogy will help you understand what he probably means by being socialized. He is like a wild animal that just happens to have been tamed. I have an aunt who loves having wild animals as pets. Currently it's wolves. She fancies herself a bit of an animal trainer and it's true that the wolf essentially acts just like a dog would. I don't know anything about wolves, but I do know that it is illegal to have a wolf as a pet where she lives, presumably because there is something different about the vis a vis dogs, e.g. they are less domesticated and more dangerous because although they're behavior in that moment is socialized, there's still a greater likelihood that they will act like the wild animal that they are. One of my friends said that being in any sort of relationship with a sociopath is like having a wild, exotic pet. If stories like the lady getting her face chewed off by a chimpanzee or the entertainer who was attacked by his own white lion disturb you or make you think--that person was an idiot to ever trust that animal--maybe being in a relationship with a sociopath is not for you.

Promoting prosocial behavior

This was an interesting recent article in the NY Times, "Understanding How Children Develop Empathy," but I thought some of the parts about the source and development of prosocial behavior were just as interesting--particularly that it is not just about (or even primarily) about empathy:


By itself, intense empathy — really feeling someone else’s pain — can backfire, causing so much personal distress that the end result is a desire to avoid the source of the pain, researchers have found. The ingredients of prosocial behavior, from kindness to philanthropy, are more complex and varied.

They include the ability to perceive others’ distress, the sense of self that helps sort out your own identity and feelings, the regulatory skills that prevent distress so severe it turns to aversion, and the cognitive and emotional understanding of the value of helping.

And this part about how people can be taught to feel the rewards of prosocial acts:


Experimental studies have shown that the same brain region that is activated when people win money for themselves is active when they give to charity — that is, that there is a kind of neurologic “reward” built into the motivational system of the brain.

“Charitable giving can activate the same pleasure-reward centers, the dopaminergic centers, in the brain that are very closely tied to habit formation,” said Bill Harbaugh, an economist at the University of Oregon who studies altruism. “This suggests it might be possible to foster the same sorts of habits for charitable giving you see with other sorts of habits.”



The other theory of prosocial behavior, Dr. Huettel said, is based on social cognition — the recognition that other people have needs and goals. The two theories aren’t mutually exclusive: Cognitive understanding accompanied by a motivational reward reinforces prosocial behavior.

But shaping prosocial behavior is a tricky business. For instance, certain financial incentives seem to deter prosocial impulses, a phenomenon called reward undermining, Dr. Huettel said.



I thought that made a lot of sense, that a lot of prosocial acts stem from a greater cognitive understanding that other people have needs and goals. I feel like the more aware I have been taught to be about the inner worlds of others, the more I am naturally inclined to defer to those needs and goals, especially when it is hardly any trouble to me and means so much to them.

The cure: self-awareness

I was reading through some old blog material and stumbled upon this comment by Peter Pan that I thought was unusually insightful and helpful, regarding the antidote to a sociopath's machinations:

Honesty with yourself is indeed the cure, and that includes realizing that you were a victim, and that although your ex was an ass, you must ultimately take responsibility for what happens in your own life. You have to be willing to face and accept the truth, no matter how painful it might be, so you can use it to make rational decisions about your future and what kind of life you want to live. Then you'll be equipped to handle encounters with sociopaths without getting burned quite so badly, if at all. All a sociopath has to do to enslave you is find out what you refuse to accept, and screw with your head and heart so that you see a connection between what you refuse to believe and what he wants to hide from you. Sounds like a lot of mumbo jumbo, I'm sure, but I assure you it's very real. Think back to how you were manipulated, and I think you'll find that at the heart of every lie you should have caught, there was a link to something about yourself, or life in general, that you couldn't allow yourself to accept. 

Managing a sociopath: cold war analogy

I gave this advice to a reader recently, and couldn't remember if I had said anything like this on the blog yet:

I think the best way to handle a sociopath is to treat it like a cold war. You never want there to be open hostilities, always want there to be plausible deniability. The threat that the sociopath imagines in his mind will be worse than any actual threat you could pose to him, so insinuate and never be explicit about your capabilities. You might want to try to draw him out into making incriminating statements. Don't do anything with those statements, just let him know that you have and keep all of his communications with you. Don't let him know that until you have stuff from him that he would worry getting out. That is about the best you can do -- fish for information, then remind him you have this information.