How to become a (good?) sociopath
I was recently asked whether there are any famous good sociopaths:
Famous good sociopaths? I don't think you would ever say that a sociopath was "good," per se, the same way you might about Mother Theresa, etc. They're always complicated. They can be good in the fact that they aren't bad... they can also be great, without necessarily being good. Is Dick Cheney bad? What about Julius Caesar? Sociopaths often lust for power, which can put them at odds with the people that they rule, but they can also do a lot of good things like keeping governments stable, or fighting off the invading hordes, or being a spy, or whatever else. Does that make them good? I don't think sociopaths have any sort of urge to do good things, just scratch their power-hungry itch. A lot of sociopaths specifically choose to use their powers for good instead of evil, but they're end game is not doing good, it's power or whatever else the sociopaths is after.
I think that a good analogy would be a corporation. There are a lot of corporations that do things that you like, maybe even good things, but the primary motivation is to make a profit. But just because you are trying to make a profit doesn't mean you can't do it by doing things you like, or that you are good at, or that comport with the way you see the world or want the world to see you. I terrorize bullies. Is that good? I help out friends and neighbors for all sorts of reasons. Actually, coincidentally, one of my readers sent this to me recently -- it deals with the idea of not having the same sort of of emotional connections to your actions as empaths do: "a comprehensive beginner's guide to becoming a sociopath." When I read it, I thought all of the good things were things that I might actually do or have already done. My bad things were different, though -- I guess I just have different tastes. But I see what the point of the exercise is -- divorce your normal emotional reactions from certain behavior. I bet it would work. I bet there a lot of things people would want to be a little sociopathic about, like having no fear if you do a lot of public speaking, or not having an emotional connection to food (I would bet the percentage of obese sociopaths is 1%, for purely genetic reasons). But maybe it is difficult to do, like being a little bit pregnant. A little bit anorexic? Or alcoholic? Or blood thirsy?
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I was recently asked whether there are any famous good sociopaths:
i think terrorizing bullies (with an ear to mercy) is good...
ReplyDeleteinstead of disconnecting or divorcing oneself from ones emotions as it relates to certain behavior, one can face them and see what one is really up to
i think you have to take a look at the belief system that is their context and see if that is working for you or against, is it something you like or not, is it reflective of you or is it a bad habit
lol, my second word verification was sness (are these set by administrator?)
Jump little lemmings, jump.
ReplyDelete"is dick cheney bad?" gee M.E. if you have to ask yourself that then maybe you should go to the middle east and check out all the bald headed babys. or for a real thrill check out the photos on the internet of what depleted uranium does to babies...
ReplyDeleteor talk to some of the cats still at gitmo, whos only crime it was was to be of middle eastern decent when america blew thru to "save the world from wmds". yea cheney is bad, yea he is evil, and yea, as a loving "normal" caring type person i have fantasies about ways to kill that prick.
oh and my word verification...herworec, what is that, elmer fudd talking about a female hero, well, i guess thats cool...
i like this post. we all do good things but as said in the post, there are motives behind it. i consider myself to be a good person, but there are definitely motives behind every good thing i do.
ReplyDelete"is dick cheney bad?" No. He's ruthless, and I'm sure one would think twice before crossing him. People look at the heartbreak and fear the media shoves down our throats on the evening news and take it to be the one and only truth. Sometimes one has to do things that are a little bad in order to gain footing or get ahead. Most of the time, people will never realize or appreciate it because they don't see the bigger picture. They get stuck on the temporary details.
ReplyDelete@C - i can imagine that lenin, stalin, hitler, and countless others used that very logic. i'm sure they've just been portrayed badly by the media, and we should all be thankful that they were willing to do a few distastful things in the name of the greater good. where do *you* draw the line?
ReplyDelete-Laine
That sociopath guide thing is really funny. I think the main thing about them is that they just don't care. But they can seem really protective and caring and charming when they want... it just doesn't last because they get bored with others so easily.
ReplyDeleteI was dating a sociopath and dumped him last week.... I think he was one of the non-dangerous ones (to make this more relevant). But now he is doing this really "depressed" act. I don't believe he really feels that bad, but is just trying to make me feel bad and play with my emotions. Or maybe he does feel really bad, I don't know. I was really harsh, and now I really DO regret it.
Laine,
ReplyDeleteI'm a bad person to be asking where to draw the line. It zigzags, curves, breaks, and blurs. However, the Hitler/Lenin/Stalin argument doesn't quite compare. They established an official ideology. We could compare them to the ayatollah, perhaps. When arbitrary arrests, torture, and executions are preformed by the U.S. government (as dictated by Cheney) on its own citizens for public disagreement or religious belief though against its written constitution, I'll agree Cheney is a "bad guy."
(i would bet the percentage of obese sociopaths is 1%, for purely genetic reasons)
ReplyDeleteReally? How so genetically? In thinking of the criteria re .Poor behavior controls .Impulsive- and that often socios are drug abusers/addictive would it not follow that socios would be self indulgent regarding food as well?
@c - i absolutely agree that the line is terribly blurry. But you implied that cheney *is* bad when you stated that "sometimes one has to do things that are a little bad...". that statement implies that you even agree that he crossed the line...but just a little bit so it's ok. and you do have a line - you state that as long as these bad things aren't done to u.s. citizens, then it's ok. that sounds like a pretty specific line to me. could they get away with torturing british citizens, japanese citizens...oh wait, we managed to do that to japanese-americans so i'm sure actual japanese wouldn't be a problem.
ReplyDelete-Laine
Doing good things =/= good person.
ReplyDeleteThen again, there's no such thing as "good" people, just people who do more seemingly altruistic things than others.
Mother Teresa 'was' a sociopath.
ReplyDeleteHer hospitals were like prisons while that bitch lived in luxury. You have to admire how successful she was at maintaining the illusion of piety.
"Good" sociopaths? There are no good people.
How does doing bad make someone a bad person? Say a man's wife and child are sick with high fevers. He could get some medicine from the pharamcy, but he doesn't have the money and the pharmacist won't budge because of "policy." Is he a bad person for stealing the medicine? Stealing is bad. Is the pharmacist a bad person for not giving it to him? He was doing his job.
ReplyDeleteAgain, you are trying to compare two unlike things. Torturing Japanese-Americans and torturing people who are not citizens. First of all, Constitutional rights are only applicable to citizens. Secondly, if there were rhyme and reason to it, torture gets the job done. It's messy and it's mean, but it's effective, and that's the point. An interrogator doesn't torture because it's the nice thing to do. Would I torture someone? I doubt it. I'm not sadistic. But if I believe they are standing between me and my child, my friend, my sibling? I'm not sure if there's a limit to what I would do.
Yes, I drew a line. But my lines are inconsistant. At least, what "normal" people would consider inconsistant. This is why my idea of what is right/wrong will likely not jive with yours. This is fine; I'm not trying to change your opinion. I guess I must ask where you draw the line? Obviously it is not in the same place(s) or for the same reasons. The fact is, we all lack the capacity to judge good and bad. All we can do is weigh the consequences and (in the case of empaths) emotions. To be a politician, one has to divorce himself from moral notions. Or else he will surely be crushed by the bad when he does good and the good when he does bad.
Just because I feel like splitting hairs...
ReplyDeleteReally? How so genetically? In thinking of the criteria re .Poor behavior controls .Impulsive- and that often socios are drug abusers/addictive would it not follow that socios would be self indulgent regarding food as well?
The genetic comment is absurd, but I'm quite sure health has more to do with geography than anything. North American sociopaths are probably part of the more gluttonous variety.
One can also be self-indulgent regarding vanity.
gluttony and vanity lure those who identify with their posesssions and image, and i would say are
ReplyDeletenarcissist playgrounds, not sociopath.
but maybe it is difficult to do, like being a little bit pregnant. a little bit anorexic? or alcoholic? or blood thirsy?
ReplyDeleteor a little bit aware?
divorcing normal emotional reactions from behaviors seems potentially like a road to higher consciousness or even enlightenment. i don't see how you could actually do it without awareness of the process and the end result. after a successful divorce, there would be this permanent gap of awareness between your behavior and the emotional response.
gluttony and vanity lure those who identify with their posesssions and image, and i would say are
ReplyDeletenarcissist playgrounds, not sociopath.
Not when vanity is used as a tool to lure those who are attracted to charming, nubile sociopaths. Appearances do help, after all. Even empaths can attest to that. I don't identify with my appearances because they're merely just appearances, but nevertheless require time and energy in order to make them useful.
I don't believe he really feels that bad, but is just trying to make me feel bad and play with my emotions. Or maybe he does feel really bad, I don't know. I was really harsh, and now I really DO regret it.
ReplyDeleteLaura, if you actually dumped him how do you know he is depressed or doing a depressed act? if you feel he is playing you then it's probably better to just end it for good, nicely and cleanly. or do you have an interest in him still? if so, what does he do for you?
if you think he is playing you, you may be right. forget about what you think he feels. ask yourself what you expect from the relationship
i went out with someone once who was very charming, and very cute, and could talk about anything and everything (and very amazingly everything that i was interested in), and it was clear to me by the second date that he was hoping to get access to my car and also move into my home. he arrived by way of public transit to "pick me up" and later asked to stay the night in the spare room. he was on his best behavior the whole time, and sort of pathetic, like a stray. people reveal their intents early in the relationship, from the very beginning in fact, if you pay attention.
my ex on the other hand, who may have been psychopathic, was a model boyfriend. but a little different. he was passionate, but not emotional. he followed me around on the most boring errands, and made me watch movies to see my reaction. he was always observing everything, like a tourist, or some alien being. the first time we met he told me about the things he had killed and watched intently for my reaction (all legal, not cruel, a bit misguided). i never felt played, and appreciated his insights. it was fair.
i guess my point is people are what they are. you are responsible for meeting your needs, not him. if you feel manipulated and are seething inside, and he does not acknowledge your feelings by changing his behavior, then it's time to move on.
I don't identify with my appearances because they're merely just appearances, but nevertheless require time and energy in order to make them useful.
ReplyDeleteishtar i don't think that's vanity. you are using your appearance as a lure. but you are not vain. if you were vain, your appearance would be the point and others would merely serve to reflect it back.
cheney=still a prick, =still needs to die...
ReplyDeleteI'm a fairly good person, i will be kind and considerate. I keep good relations with people to make sure they don't forget me. I never know when i may need something.
ReplyDeleteI have stolen in the past, played mind games, tortured animals - if this means i'm an evil sociopath, so be it. But i am realistic and have my own code. The motives of my code are probably different to other people, but thats irrelevant.
Sociopaths know the difference between right and wrong. You can do good for wanting to do good not always power hungry. This is a misconception , though there is no emotional reward that goes with good such as empaths feels. There is a since of reward in other ways.
ReplyDeleteA good way to understand true sociopath is to understand science fiction characters who are cyborgs or robots. They would be considered very extreme sociopaths and sociopaths have a greater emotional response than these characters. But like those characters they know the difference between right and wrong through and intellectual understanding. Think Data from Star Trek. Another way to look at it would be Aliens from another planet would they have the same emotional responses that humans do , probably not , but would they be capable understanding right and wrong and being good or not good.
Just like anyone else a sociopath is unique and not all of us are the same. We have our own characters and traits and personal wants. We are not robots with no concept of right and wrong. The way we process emotions and social cues are different.
Its ridiculous to think otherwise. A way a normal person can understand this is usually of eating meat. Does it bother you that you are eating a dead cow or chicken that the chicken was killed most probably not. Do you know its wrong to kill a chicken for no reason , of course , would you have an emotional response to knowing a chicken was killed for food, no.
You kill bugs all the time does it bother you ? No , does it make you bad no. Do you know the difference between right or wrong, yes . Just because you feel no emotions or guilt for stepping and killing an ant does not make you bad or good, just indifferent. But, you still would probably understand that going over and killing an ant colony in the wild is useless and not right to kill innocent creatures.
There are plenty of killers and murders who are sick and dangerous and do horrible acts that are not sociopaths. It all depends on you , what kind of person you want to be or how you were raised and in what environment.
Because I feel no guilt does not make me a bad person or a person incapable of doing good, for just the want of doing good.
It is a struggle at times to do the right thing. But never have I wanted to do the wrong thing. As a child I would not always know what limits are. But, as an adult I do . I have control of me through my brain and intellect. Others choose not to.
Unfortunately there is no room for those who cannot conform to society and live in harmony with them. I believe those of us who cannot should be locked up. There is no cure to this and if you are doing crime and bad things , then there will never be a cure for you , it will only get out of control.
Oh and one more thing
ReplyDeleteI never understood why people say sociopaths want power. I could not understand this. Wanting power is an emotional want you might as well want love, or want to be good.
How, I feel things work is that sociopaths do not have long term need for power, but rather just impulsive wants. Such as food, sex, money. You rob a store because you want money. You do not go get a job and become a CEO and "want" power like that . It would be more like you kidnap a woman and rape her because you want to control power and sex. Its an impulsive thing. You act on needs or wants. I murdered that guy because I needed his money. Why did you murder him though ? Because I needed his money. Why did you just not rob him. I do not know , I need the money so I killed him for it. Thats how it usually is. Its impulsive things are not thought through. Its like you are an animal such as a grizzly bear. You want to eat the contents of a camp site and if there is people there you might kill them in order to get to it. Why ? Why not. I wanted it and they were in the way. Does the bear go off and think about it and scheme things through. No, neither does a sociopath.
I believe that people like Dick Cheney or who ever who have sociopath tendencies but search for longer term power and money are not sociopaths and should have their own category. They diffidently have some sort of emotional wants and needs more than sociopaths. Vanity all that stuff does not make sense to me. Why would I care what people think of me or how I look ? If i want something I take it , I dont have to ask. Am I afraid of being caught no, Am I afraid of the consequences , No. Do I care about self preservation , NO. We do not have those traits in us. So I believe long term "bad" people are just that bad people. They know the difference. They have an emotional want. They want power , might as well be love. I mean what is the point of power like that to a sociopath. You dont feel it emotionally , you just feel things physically. I can understand a rapist, or a robber, murderer. That makes sense to me. I can see how they do it and why. Though I still know its wrong and I do not do those things. But, yes I see that is possible. If you are going to have long term goals its usually not for yourself because there is no emotional gratification. I graduated from college not for me but for my family. I work a normal job not for me but for my family. etc, etc.
Like I stated in my previous post you can intellect understanding on what is right or wrong.