Monday, April 15, 2013

Hidden Suffering of the Psychopath

Willem H.J. Martens* has published his book, heavily featuring some of the readers of this website and participants of the forum.  Martens says: "The money (8 dollars) is for our Kahn Institute os Theoretical Psychiatry and Neuroscience."

About the book:

This book provides new insight in the nature of psychopathy. On basis of analysis anonymous self-reports and case reports of members of an internet forum for psychopaths it was concluded that psychopaths are suffering too and demonstrate a different psychodynamic mechanism as was proposed untill now. Dr. Martens is a forensic psychiatrist/psychoanalyst who published in many international journas.

It is for behavioral scientists, forensic psychiatrists/psychotherapists, criminologists and staff members of forensic psychiatric hospitals extremely important to know how persons with psychopathy experience their disorder and how do they think about their behavior, tendencies and attitude. Until now this is not clarified. 

Psychopaths might regard their features, attitude and behavior quite differently than their non-psychopathic counterparts and researchers do. This distinction might be the result of a) ignorance of non-psychopaths about the true nature of this complex disorder, b) a very different perspective of psychopaths and non-psychopaths in analyzing this phenomenon, c) the fact that most empirical data is gathered from incarnated, criminal populations who are very able to manipulate tests (most of them know much about the PCL-R), asessments, researchers, and therapists (just for fun, revenge, hatred, or disgust) and d) a lack of utilization of and unavailability of reliable and voluntary self-reports of psychopaths in informal settings, and so on. Informal, non-academic and non-clinical settings are important because the psychopaths I investigated hate formal academic and clinical settings because they consider them as bulwarks of repressing authority which are harmful for them. They consider current theories and concepts of psychopathy as inadequate, incomplete, incorrect, stereotype which bring about stigmatization. 

I revealed that reliable self-reports of psychopaths (which would not have negative consequences) were posted on the anonymous internet forum discussion for psychopaths ( I discovered that Internet Forums of Psychopaths were true goldmines of information which form the missing link in current research, treatment and theorizing. On the internet forum the participants can tell their stories, concerns and discuss their items freely and anonymously. They trust the fellow psychopaths and their stories are really revealing and provide profound analysis of their behavior and many unknown details. Their otherwise defensive attitude appeared to be vanished and it seems that they are able to help and support each other. Potentially persons with very violent tendencies are guided and supported by other forum participants in a rather “social” way in order to stay out of problems and avoid harmfulness. Many visitors of the forum tell that the discussions and the chance to tell their true stories caused relief for them and there were many we were thankful to be part of a sort of community which gave their life structure and new insights.

*Willem H. J. Martens - MD, PhD - Composer and Chair of W. Kahn Institute of Theoretical Psychiatry and Neuroscience and Advisor appointed by the European Commission (Leonardo da Vinci). Address: Henk van Tienhovenstraat 67, 6543JB Nijmegen (Gelderland), The Netherlands.


  1. How does he know that the people on this forum who are offering opinions, are diagnosed Psychopaths?

    Did he verify their diagnoses? Many people say they are not. Also socios lie.

    Many people in the forum do not even believe M.E. Is a sociopath, they think she is a narc.

    1. I would think he has enough experience dealing with psychopaths that he would be able to use his own judgement in the matter.

      Professionals like him are usually very adept at seeing through our bullshit and I doubt he would be swayed much by what the forum members think of M.E.

      I've got to get my little paws on this book.

    2. I didn't know that it was so easy for psychs to diagnose. I heard you were too slippery and

    3. I know I am ;)
      A liar too.

      It's not easy to diagnose because we have a tendency to lie our asses off, convincingly mind you.

      The reason I think it would be easier for him to figure out who fits the bill is just as he said: sociopaths let their guard down and tend to lie a lot less on this blog/forum than we do in everyday life.

      I'm pretty sure he would be almost immune to our charm and manipulation by now anyway. He would also be able to archive dive, unless the comments are deleted, to see if he could catch the lies.

    4. i dont feel like i am psycho but have been a bit confused about stuff from being here and seeing what looks like similarities between me and the self proclaimed ones here. Im not sure why some of my shit gets put in the twitter (I suspect there is a timing thing becausee when i am away or feel bad and want t o leave my stuff uncanilly appears . My suspicion is that appealing to my narcissism is key factor.

      I also know i'm paranoid. But Lots of people who arn't sociopaths are.

      Off on a tangent there.

      I dont think i'd be viwed as a sociopath. Certainly charming and helpful. i think in interview i would be considered shy awkward, interested, and authenticlly truthful about stuff. I'd cry like any normal person healing from old wounds.

      My pdoc asked me if i'm a good liar and she had a cute little smile on her face. She said "maybe YOU are the sociopath" and then went on to tell me how creative borderlines can be.

      I thought it was nice of her to pick me up like that bec i hear all this fucked up stigma about narcissism and borderline and the separate kind of empathy from some normals. ...Cognitive vs emotional..

      -not certain shrinks would pick it up but they'd certainly see anger covered nicely in that i intellectualize mine and where it comes from. understanding where it came from..

      they'd have to trigger in such a way to get me to admit to high anger level..
      Idk how much being bipolar with bpd criteria seems sociopathic, but i'm guessing with the highs, i exhibit more narcissism. They'd have to catch me on a particularly high day or something. Or in institution where i dont give a shit.

      But i don't care for stupid need for diagnosis. I used to from being here, but idk, does it matter? I get suggestions from other sociopathic types and i get to know some traits i should be acknowledging.

      There was a good one the other day about empaths i liked . Zoe said WOW but i don't know why. She admitted a bit of psych traits.

      during manic attack, and after speaking to hospital staff, they'd realize strange manipulations were present. It would take a while for them so see this "unlikable "side, but they'd get a kick out of it. It's happened.

  2. Tricky. Might be a good read. I wonder if he identifies people by their avatars.

  3. "They trust the fellow psychopaths" - lol! Spoken like a true empath. Thanks for giggle, Doc.

    1. I thought the same, probably just as everyone else here.

      It's kinda interesting how long they took to realize pretty obvious things, like that we provide a huge amount of insight.

  4. <in desperate need of a nurse

  5. i'm not gonna get the book couse i don't believe me is a sociopath

    1. Do you have any idea how much anguish you just caused?
      Both to M.E. and to Willem Martins.
      What could they possibly do to earn your approval and endorsement?

  6. sounds like someone is confusing npd and sociopathy

  7. Hidden Suffering of the Psychopath
    what ever my victims need to tell themselves to sleep at night hehe

    1. yeah you have to party like it's 1999 every day and suffer the mother of all hangovers

    2. Have you ever considered that this is going to be perfect for manipulating people that know you well?

      When you get busted doing something really bad, you can play the pity card to the nth degree. If they persist in calling you a scheming, lying, cold hearted asshole, you can "confide in them" about the suffering... how many empaths could resist?

    3. ^ We've resisted Monica, haven"t we?" hahahahahahah

    4. Haha! But we're not empaths...

    5. "But we're not empaths..."

      And you know this how?

    6. Maybe I think you're too charming and funny to be one ;)

    7. Since you believe you're so accurate in your assumption; who was behind the bombing in Boston, today?

    8. Pfft, easy. The Green Goblin. He's known to fly around and throw bombs.

  8. This bright background draws retards, like moths to a flame.

  9. "I revealed that reliable self-reports of psychopaths (which would not have negative consequences"

    Well mabye the fact that there are no consequences makes the reports a little less reliable.

    "I discovered that Internet Forums of Psychopaths were true goldmines of information"

    Misinformation more like. What kind of tit would come here and take enough of what people said at face value to write a book about it? Most people on the forum are fucking idiots and most people over here blend into one nameless mass of nothing. Hate to think what he used for this thing. Seems like an easy way to send your reputation down the toilet to me.

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  12. I saw how Gaslighting works more. The Mal nac can never feel badly about himself, ever. If he does, he will make you pay. If he feels badly because he treated you in an abusive way, he will get mad at YOU for being angry. He will call you an angry person, getting off the whole subject that he abused you. Hence, you feel like you have no right to anything because you are bad for making him feel badly about himself. What he did to you doesn't factor in. What you went through means nothing. It is all about how he feels about himself.

    1. yes, this was my ex.

      He was exhausting and abusive to the point it looked and sounded clownish.

    2. My ex as well. I was abused so long that I think I've turned sociopathic myself.

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  14. God... Did he really belive it would be a reliable source?
    There are so many sociopath-wannabe's here who twist their stories depending on the symptoms they read, and you can't tell if one is a true sociopath just by their written comments. He might aswell call his book "Hidden suffuring of socially inapt losers faking sociopathy"

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