Monday, July 9, 2012

Guilt

I'm still learning a lot about myself. For instance, I was prompted recently to think about "guilt." A reader writes:
Sometimes I feel what I think may be guilt, but there's always a metaphorical voice in the back of my head telling me, "No, you only feel that way because your image was tarnished." That "voice" is incredibly difficult to pay attention to, by the way. I feel a horrible feeling whenever I do something that hurts someone and it can be linked back to me. If there is no link to me, I don't feel anything. It's very hard for me to differentiate between this and guilt, and I've frequently used it to justify my own humanity. But why don't I feel such things if nobody knows who caused it? It can't be guilt. I only care when there are consequences for me.
I reply:
That is interesting how you feel bad only when you are caught, essentially. I mean, it's a trite phrase -- "he's only sorry he got caught" -- but it is so true for me. I can actually feel really really badly about things that I got caught for, for whatever reason. But the phrase doesn't fit exactly. It's not like I feel disappointed that I couldn't get away with it. I just feel ... out of sorts. I feel like the world is an ugly place where I don't belong. That is what makes me feel bad. Definitely not, "oh, poor person I hurt." It's more like, "poor me for having to live in this ugly world and deal with this." This happened to me very recently when I stole/borrowed something from my neighbor, hoping she would never find out before I returned it. She did find out, though, and confronted me about it. Or she at least asked me about it and I didn't know what she knew so I just came clean, but spun a story of emergency, etc., figuring that would be better for me than to be caught in a lie. But she wouldn't have it. She threatened to call the authorities. Now that seemed like an overreaction by anyone's standards, but for some reason it deeply disturbed me. I think I realized how vulnerable I am, how hated I am just by virtue of what I am. I didn't really think about it at the time, but what you wrote really made sense to me. I wouldn't have felt the least tinge of guilt if I had never been caught, but being caught made me feel all sorts of guilt, or what felt like guilt at least. Maybe it was just regret.

91 comments:

  1. I was just passing by--reading some of the lovely entries out of boredom/curiosity--and I noticed that a lot of people on here talk about "playing games" with "empaths". I was wondering what the connection between a lack of empathy and an interest in emotionally hurting people was? I mean, just because you lack empathy for others, doesn't mean you should/will find pleasure/entertainment in using them. Is that a separate trait of sociopathy or is it supposed to somehow stem from a lack of empathy? Because, I don't really see a connection between the two. Counldn't you be completely lacking in empathy while still treating people the way you would want to be treated? I just don't see where PURPOSELY hurting/using people would be of any interest either way (unless it's for revenge--which empaths also do). Not feeling remorse or emotional attachment is way more common than people are willing to admit, but actively trying to mess with other people just seems like a waste of energy. Just wondering.

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    1. I'm a sociopath and I don't get off on hurting people. I actually like most people... just not enough to spend time with them. They're fine so long as they keep their conversations short and they never show up uninvited (i.e. they never show up)

      It all comes down to what broke you. You give what you're given. Those people who get their jollies hurting "innocent" people... well, they weren't always "monsters" and if I could feel, I'd feel sorry for them.

      But yeah, I agree, definitely seems like a waste of time to me. There's no sport in manipulating most people. Everyone is too fucking dumb.

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  2. I think what you're describing is shame. Not guilt. There's a big difference between the two, and a lot of the time, people confuse their meanings.

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  3. Milo said: "I think what you're describing is shame. Not guilt. There's a big difference between the two, and a lot of the time, people confuse their meanings."

    Really? I'd love to hear more about this. I was fascinated when I realized that I didn't feel what other people felt when they do something they consider "wrong". There appears to be an intensity to these emotions that is alien to my own experience and I'd like to know more.

    There's a difference between shame and guilt? What about regret? If there is a distinction in how these emotions are actually felt, what is it and how can you tell the difference?

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    1. Guilt and regret are usually lumped together and this ridiculous notion that "sociopaths don't feel guilt or regret" is nonsense. Most emotionally normative people often seem to experience them together but they are distinct.

      I most certainly feel absolutely no guilt but regret is merely a feeling of loss. A lost opportunity or a lost thing or person of value to us is certainly something we can regret. Regret can be a very selfish thing and I find that my regret has more in common with anger than with the guilt some seem to feel.

      It just simply means that we wish things were different and that is certainly something we can experience.

      Shame is an emotional response to the threat of rejection and for most people the threat of rejection is perceived by the brain as right up there with a threat to one's life. This makes sense when viewed from an evolutionary perspective. Back when we lived in small groups, rejection literally meant death or at least death of our genetic lineage.

      People fear public speaking for this very reason and it is a facinating subject. Myself, the closest I come (and bear in mind I am only a 25 on the 40 point scale) is variations of anger, which is a response to threats or violations.

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  4. To Curious:
    Another trait is dysphoria, meaning a lot of sociopaths have almost constant anger, along with constant boredom. Both of these cause sociopaths to look for things to amuse them, and their lack of emapthy accounts for how they may seem sadistic - all of us have a certain amount of Schadenfreude, but without empathy to hold us back it would be all we have.

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    1. Empathy and sadism are not mutually exclusive by any means. In fact, I believe that the sadism that "empaths" display involves their empathy quite a bit. The viciousness and cruelty that empaths are capable of is as bad as any sociopath, and perhaps often worse.

      I have seen countless examples of this in real life and online. Throughout history it was not the sociopaths that were the main ones burning people alive (and relishing the pain they saw), lynching and committing other violent acts. It was the "regular folk". Sure, there was probably many situations where a sociopath stirring the pot and manipulating the situation for there own amusement but most violence in human history was not committed by us.

      "Empaths" like to demonize us to make themselves feel better about themselves and delude themselves into thinking they couldn't do such things but they are. Some are even remarkably good at avoiding guilt too but while we simply are not capable of that guilt, they have to justify things. or somehow justify their actions in their own minds to do so.

      You have no further to look than lynch mobs and gang rapes, again mostly committed by them. They have to tell themselves that the victim deserved it (asking for it, committed a crime, is a "bad person", is an inferior race,gender, group, etc) to escape their guilt and the consequences of that pesky empathy.

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  5. I don't know about feeling guilt or shame, but when I get caught I feel acutely stupid for whatever mistake I made that lead to me getting caught.

    As for Curious's question... you know how bad things happening to other people can be funny? The Darwin awards are a rather extreme example, but I think most people can think of at least a few occasions where they have laughed at the misfortunes of others. Well, if you're bored (like anonymous said, a common trait for sociopaths) and want some entertainment, and have no little or no empathy or guilt, why not create amusing catastrophes for people?

    Well, that and having power over people is a delightful feeling. The easiest kind of power to have over someone is the power to do harm to them.

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  6. In my own pain after being the victim to a sociopath's... boredom maybe, though Id like to think I was just what he thought he wanted at the time... I have done a lot of research and reading to understand why this person said he loved me but felt absolutely nothing at the actions of doing such evil things to me. I have come to the the strong conclusion that time is a concept to sociopaths that holds no meaning... They can not feel regret, regret requires concept of the past and they do not feel guilt for the same reason. Shame though! I agree with Milo. ME writes that it's the getting caught that twinges. My boyfriend slept with a girl just because it's forbidden in her religion to see if he could... no emotion. But at my pointing out that not only is this sick, but it was unfaithful and it hurt me. He put on the show. I was lucky... he dumped me before I could find out what he really was. His friend (the only one left) said he called him on it... "Why would you throw away someone who loves you?" No answer, he just put on the show. We found out that he would text torturing sexual texts to his ex about raping her... all the while telling me he wants to marry me and live the white picket fence life. It's just time. Maybe one moment he did want to sexually abuse her, and maybe the other moment he did 'love' me, and maybe when he was caught he did feel shame. I don't fully understand the concept yet. All I know is that the hurtful actions don't hurt for us empaths nearly as much as that the socio doing it to us feels no guilt. Any sociopaths reading care to comment? I want so much to understand the other side of this issue especially.

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    1. Anon 1:53.. I think I had a similar issue and I've realized the following - start with accepting the fact that you fell in love with an idea, a person who presented a certain "self" " persona" perfection even...but the truth is they were not this at all...just an ugly, deformed, rotting creature kind of like protagonist in Dorian Grey...accept that there is evil in his world and you are lucky to have escaped him...evil is enticing, seductive..just realize that it is fake.

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    2. No regret, huh.

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  7. Broken Hearted wrote: "I want so much to understand the other side of this issue especially."

    Why?

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  8. As someone with emotional capacity and deep feelings of guilt and regret and pain, I cannot possibly fathom what it's like to destroy a person, especially one you so claimed to love for so long, and feel nothing. I guess I don't understand how he can live with himself and maybe if I did, I could move on from it.
    I am a woman of science and medicine. I cope through understanding of technicals and details. Give me a patient, even a friend, with the tragedy of sickness or death and I can get through it better than any unfeeling sociopath, because I know how and why. But this... I can't beat it because I can't understand how he could hurt me so intently without guilt. I guess that is my only reason for wanting to understand. It won't change anything else.
    -Broken Hearted

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  9. I think you could be on to something about sociopaths lacking a sense of time. I certainly don't think much about the past, which both makes learning from mistakes hard and getting over injuries easy. I'm not much for planning for the future either. I'm very much into living in the moment.

    I don't think that's the reason that sociopaths don't feel guilt, though. It's more that the mental mechanism for acquiring morality is simply missing, or else severely underdeveloped. That, and being similarly unable to empathize with people leaves the sociopath with no source for guilt.

    If it's any consolation, I'm similarly unable to truly understand why someone might feel guilt for the things you describe. Perhaps a sense of loss or regret at having destroyed a valuable relationship, if in fact the relationship was valuable to him (if not, obviously it wouldn't matter), but not guilt. It sounds, however, like he didn't value you all that much, or perhaps he grew bored of you.

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  10. "I think you could be on to something about sociopaths lacking a sense of time."

    Yes. We lack a sense of time. It's because we live in the moment.

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  11. Broken Hearted said: “I cope through understanding of technicals and details.”

    Ok then, turn your understanding of technicals and details onto your own thought processes. Turn inward. Notice what kinds of thoughts you are focusing on when you’re thinking about this guy and notice the emotions that accompany them. Question those thoughts, challenge them for their truthfulness. I think almost every mind comes standard equipped with a “sociopathic spin doctor” who rationalizes everything we do and tells us all the things we want to hear. Fortunately, I think almost every mind also comes standard equipped with at least a rudimentary ability to reason. Use that reason against the thoughts you believe which hinder your ability to move on. For instance, you say you need to understand how he could do what he did to you before you can move on. Is that true? Are you sure you can’t move on without understanding this guy first? What does moving on mean to you anyway? Be precise in your questioning. As one author puts it, set up a Spartan Meritocracy in your mind. Make thoughts and beliefs continually earn their right to be there. “THIS IS SPARTA!!!”

    Seriously, you create your own happiness and your own suffering in this life. I believe this to be generally true for all of us. The intelligent and aware sociopath understands this better than many normals. You're not the victim your inner spin doctor wishes you to believe you are. Take responsibility for your own internal state of mind. You don’t need to understand why he did what he did in the past, you need to understand why you’re doing what you’re doing to yourself now.

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  12. Daniel that is my point exactly, im just too doped up on my stupid pills to put it into a sentence...

    "you don't need to understand why he did what he did in the past,you need to understand why you're doing what you're doing to yourself"...

    makes perfect sense to me.

    I can feel guilt and shame intensely....i just haven't found someone worthy of showing that to. lol...then again come to think of it i've never done anything to feel guilty about.

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  13. Orpheus, the new age flower godessFebruary 16, 2011 at 3:17 PM

    I think one of the most common thoughts when we've been dumped or crapped on by someone (sociopath or not) is "what did I do wrong?" Sometimes we can find an answer to this, sometimes we can't. Generally the worse we feel we've been treated or the longer such mistreatment goes on the longer and more desperately intense our quest for an answer to this question will be.
    The question arises because of our own insecurities. Self-doubt, self-confidence, call it what you will. I suspect true sociopaths (if there are actually any here) will not tolerate either abusive behaviour from a partner nor will they suffer from such insecurities which necessitate an answer to this question. Hence they will say "just move on."
    My advice is that looking for an explanation for abhorrent behaviour in the realms of psychology is actually a total red-herring guaranteed to keep you in limbo and prevent you moving on. Google any personality disorder and you will find scores of "support" sites claiming knowledge of that disorder and populated by hundreds of people all asking "why oh why?" Many of these people are there for months, some for years all attempting to understand what does he/she have? what does that involve? what causes it? Why me? and back to the beginning again in an endless loop. The truth is you will never understand them now if you didn't know what was going on then. Its quicker to just think you've failed, blame yourself (for everything,) promise yourself to never do it again, amd then you can move on.
    On-line counselling available

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  14. Replies
    1. You are getting soft TCO

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    2. I'm only soft unless being jerked around ;)

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    3. Very cute ;)

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  15. The Twitter is awesome, lately. We do make some pretty, funky statements.

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  16. Only feeling bad when you get caught is the basis for Capitalism as it is practiced by Wall st types, etc. It's the enemy of the compartmentalization of one's mind. Can't cut off the reality of what is handcuffing you

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  17. Power is being told you are not loved, and not being destroyed by it.
    Madonna

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  18. Power is knowing you are not loved, and not being destroyed by it.

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  19. Hi Daniel, I've missed seeing you on here.

    I see sociopathy concerning creating emotional situations in others like a person without taste buds, they see that others experience something they don't and go to extremes to create it maybe even experience in some degree.
    Just my opinion.

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    1. This is very interesting, Tik. Would you care to elaborate on your statement?

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    2. I also agree w Daniel about the in the moment thing. I'm not a sociopath. I have borderline and narcissistic traits I work on and I know I have the time thing.

      I have done this thing of creating emotional feelings in people (That fanatic called it love- bombing). I didn't know I was even doing it. But I wanted to do it. I saw I had great power. Then I would get bored or suffocated or squirmy and drop them. Their faces turned from handsome to hideous in front of my eyes the minute I saw them falling.

      I can't stand when it happens. Because at the moment I am doing what I'm doing to get them, I have felt very much in the moment. I really do have a fantasy of a love relationship.

      Now I try not to be so wreckless. I try not to make mistakes. The melancholy which follows can suck.

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    3. ALso, it isn't fair. This is why I know I'm not evil. SO suck it, Mr. Fanatic.

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  20. That is interesting how you feel bad only when you are caught, essentially. I mean, it's a trite phrase -- "he's only sorry he got caught" -- but it is so true for me. I can actually feel really really badly about things that I got caught for, for whatever reason. But the phrase doesn't fit exactly. It's not like I feel disappointed that I couldn't get away with it. I just feel ... out of sorts.

    is that shame?

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  21. I forgave one of the two people I hated. I had a powerful transformation where I shifted.Now, I just have my mother left. I pray I can do the same thing with her.

    I saw a U tube video of a girl who had terrible, ritual satanic abuse. Her father used her as a breeder in covens. (UKan will probably laugh here) She had 10 pregnancies from the age when she could bear children and her babies were killed and sacrificed to Satan. She married an abusive man, which you would expect.

    Then, she cried out to God. She forgave her father and went to tell him that, when he was on his death bed.

    The amazing thing was that she had totally forgiven her father and she did not look mentally ill, or have that weird look people have when they have been through hell.
    She was peaceful. She travels around the world and helps those people who were sexually abused.

    The forgiveness is the key, but it has to be real, inner forgiveness, not cheap words.

    I did have that with one of my claw hammer people, but I need it for the my mother.

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    1. What confuses me most about you Monica is how you go on and on pretty much every day about your mother. How you want to forgive her/kill her with a claw hammer. You talk about religion, learning, forgiveness ad nauseum. Yet you disregard genuine help that is offered to you by people like Kanny and Ellicit.

      I think you hold up this woman as a hero because then you can say that she was strong and did the right thing by forgiving and doing nothing about what happened. Gives you a reason not to confront your own demons head on (with a claw hammer if necessary).

      This woman allowed 10 of her children to be killed. She was weak and evil and her children payed the price. How does she help those that have been abused, by telling them to accept Jesus, forgive their abusers and do nothing about it. All it takes for evil to flourish is for good people to do nothing.

      You're almost 50. Your mother is in her 70s or 80s, I presume. How long do you think you can stay on here and talk about forgiveness/homicide alternatively? Until she dies and then you can go on and on how you never got the chance?

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    2. Or until she dies and then you'll have to kill yourself because you'll have no one to blame for your problems. Won't that be miserable when she dies.

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    3. Kany is a loser. She attacks people. I have no respect for that. I have to respect how someone carries herself, for me to listen to her advice. This should be obvious to anyone.

      I am struggling to get over a lot of abuse with no drugs or anything. I do it by trying to face it.

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    4. She attacks people. I have no respect for that

      You attack people too, Monica. So do the Fomentile brothers. How much respect do you think they have from those who bothered to read their attempts at character assassination?

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    5. Monica, I honestly think you can't take it when people hold up even a sliver of a mirror to you. You don't want to accept the truth, so you denounce those that try to show it to you.

      Kany was trying to help you. Which considering how hostile you are to her, was a complete mystery to me why she would bother. She has more goodness in her than you ever will, because she doesn't hide behind Jesus and self pity.

      Not all truth is beautiful fairy tales with unicorns and butterflies. Some of it is really ugly and makes you look deep inside yourself and your own role in it. You can't expect to have it all Disney and attack people when they show you the real monster.

      Take responsibility for your own life and stop blaming everyone else. Stop pitying yourself and putting on the 'be nice to me, I've been so hurt by these monsters' act when we don't fall for it. It's old.

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    6. I attacked Eden after she rode my ass for a long time. I don't attack, unprovoked, to be a bully. That is a fucking coward and I hate that. Want to talk about a weak loser? That is a weak loser.

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    7. Once I attacked Eden back, my life changed. I defended myself. THEN, I saw that she was sick, like my mother. Now, I am having a paradigm shift. This is what healing is all about. If you guys can't see that, you have the problems. This is in vivo healing.

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    8. Green Eyes
      You and I see things differently. If I wanted your opinion, I would ask. I don't.

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    9. You really are hilarious. I can honestly say I have never encountered a person so deluded and full of shit as you, Monica.
      When people tell you the truth or disagree with you, it's noble for you to attack them. But when you are the instigator, it's only because they are evil and deserve it. Interesting.
      What a valiant, honourable person you are.~

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    10. Green Eyes
      I feel the same about you. You are deluded and full of shit, so there we have it. Someone is fucked up ~

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    11. Lol, too good.
      My mother used to call me a monster, yours called you worthless. Mothers know best after all, huh.

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    12. Well, I was told I was worthless. It was a lie but I have to know that in my heart, which is what I am trying to do, here.

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    13. How is hanging around a sociopath blog, rambling about your mother, ignoring good advice and attacking people helping with that exactly?

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    14. Well, I will tell you, Green Eyes. One must experience what one did not, as one shut oneself down. I am loved and thought well of, in my real life, but I can't get it down deep, as I closed off a great deal of myself, so I could survive.

      I come here and I have "my mother", in her various forms, ride my ass. I take it and take it until I explode and get them back and ride their ass and make them pay. Then, I see, they were sick.

      That is my history *sigh*
      I have to live it to walk out of it.

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    15. So what are you saying? We are a practice run for you to confront your mother? How much practice exactly do you need?
      Seriously, grow a pair. If all else fails, I guess you could write her a letter telling her how you really feel about her, then sever all contact. Less confrontational, but nowhere near as effective as looking the bitch in the eye and telling her yourself.

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    16. My mother used to call me a monster

      Why did your mother call you that, Green eyes?

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    17. Green eyes
      It is not as simple as saying 'Fuck you" to a person or even killing a person, as that would not even help. It is about you seeing the lies. I guess, I see the lies, on here.
      M.E, allows us freedom, freedom to be who we are, to fall, to strike back, to pull back, to be the abuser and the abused. M.E, allows us to experience things we could not experience, I could not experience, in life.

      I honor that. I am grateful for that. I come here, for that.

      I can't explain it more than that, if you don't understand.

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    18. My grandmother was convinced that I was born pure evil and convinced my whole family as well. It sort of didn't help matters that I used to misbehave, then rejected almost all my family entirely and laugh at their misfortunes (as well as contributing to them sometimes).

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    19. Why did she think you were born pure evil?

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    20. Long story and one I'm not really willing to share, sorry. She just was, that's all that matters, really.

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    21. Well, my mother told me she thought she was evil. That is a hell of a label to live with.

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    22. Long story and one I'm not really willing to share, sorry

      I was going to ask the same question. If you don't want to go into that do you want to tell us how she managed to convince the rest of the family instead?

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    23. She was evil, Monica, and she will never change. Sounds like she might have been saying it as an excuse for doing what she did. To get you to feel sorry for her, that it's not her fault, she couldn't help it, you must forgive her and let it be... you know, to avoid repercussions for her. Kinda worked, didn't it?

      I personally don't mind being called evil, I find it funny if anything. When your reputation in the family precedes you, it's easy (and fun) to make them squirm.

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    24. It is all about forgiveness, Green Eyes, as forgiveness cuts the ties, but it has to be core level, not cheap words.
      That is the hard part lol

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    25. Ellicit, she made them see what she wanted them to see. Claimed bad things happening in the house, like people getting sick, pets dying etc.. were all my fault, even when I was a baby. They were so weak and superstitious, they just believed her.

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    26. When your reputation in the family precedes you, it's easy (and fun) to make them squirm.

      I recall some of what you've said about your family, green eyes. You weren't wanted and you were treated like a slave. It's usually the unappreciated slaves who do the squirming. Not the other way around.

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    27. Monica, I guess I don't really believe in forgiveness being something that you (the wronged party) should have to work for. She should be the one to earn it, with blood if necessary, and only if she truly deserves it, should you consider giving it.

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    28. "MonicaJuly 9, 2012 5:50 PM
      I attacked Eden after she rode my ass for a long time. I don't attack, unprovoked, to be a bully. That is a fucking coward and I hate that. Want to talk about a weak loser? That is a weak loser."

      This is a lie.

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    29. Absolutely, Ellicit. My family treated me like crap and I took it for a long time, until I found a way out. Then I confronted them and wrote most of them out of my life. They've tried to get me back under control with emotional blackmail (it's the only card they have left), to help them, but I just laugh.

      I was always told that I am evil and surely will go to hell unless I obey and be a good girl. They just pushed me too far, I guess. Now my mother says I'm so hostile and cold towards my own family, that I must be possessed and it scares her. She actually goes to a psychic asking for advice on how to heal my soul. Hilarious, but a terrible waste of money.

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    30. MonicaJuly 9, 2012 5:50 PM
      I attacked Eden after she rode my ass for a long time. I don't attack, unprovoked, to be a bully. That is a fucking coward and I hate that. Want to talk about a weak loser? That is a weak loser.


      MonicaJuly 9, 2012 5:52 PM
      Once I attacked Eden back, my life changed. I defended myself. THEN, I saw that she was sick, like my mother. Now, I am having a paradigm shift. This is what healing is all about. If you guys can't see that, you have the problems. This is in vivo healing.


      That's fucking bullshit and you know it. I was curious and I read her first comments like a year ago, she never attacked you once, you started insulting her out of nowhere.

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    31. Once I attacked Eden back, my life changed

      Your life hasn't changed, Monica. What you're really saying is that you felt better by attacking her. You went after her first because of how you perceived her.

      *They damage others to reduce their feelings of shame and envy.

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    32. Look Ell
      It is a known fact at SW that Eden rode my ass, relentlessly. I did my usual thing, which was to be the bigger person. Then, she decided to walk away. I said "Fuck it. You don't walk away when you want to" and I attacked her.

      So what? Don't fuck with people if you don't want to be attacked.

      At any rate, it is stupid to go into it. It is over.

      I am responsible for my side of the street, only. Eden deserved. I am not attacking her, any more.

      I will ignore her. I may get provoked to attack her, but I will try not to, as CEO told me the truth of the matter.

      I don't attack people who are struggling with what he said she was. However, she got what she deserved from me, and a LOT less because I was a weak pussy, which I am not, anymore, or try not to be. Anyway, it is over with Eden, so please leave it in the past, as it does nothing for her, for you to bring it up. I don't care what you think of me, so it does nothing for me.

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    33. "It is over" ...

      No shit? Could have fooled me. By that measure, you've forgiven your mother and moved on too. Congratulations ~

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    34. CEO told me the truth of the matter.

      I don't attack people who are struggling with what he said she was ...


      And wtf is that if not a thinly disguised jab?

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    35. No jab!
      What is wrong with you?

      Eden has a condition which makes me not go after her, even though she well deserved what I did to her, which was little, in light of what she did to me.

      Anyway, it is over unless you bring it up.
      Ell, I think you have a lot on the ball, but if you want to act like a loser, I am not going to bother with you.

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    36. Yes V
      It is over with Eden( as far as my going after her) People should leave it in the past.
      As far as my mother, I hope I can heal that. That is why I am here.

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    37. You've been going after her consistantly for several months, Monica

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    38. Monica, that was irony. You've heard of it?

      Your conversations here remind me of a poem I read once, by A A Milne. I forget the whole thing, but there's a line that says "Well I've been to London to see the Queen, and SHE says my hands are PERFECTLY clean ...".

      That's what you're doing, calling on CEO et al to back up your alternate reality where you've never attacked anyone unless they were either evil or they started it.

      Embrace your inner bitch, girl ... she's more honest than you and she gets right to the point.

      Delete
    39. V

      CEO is a real person, and a smart one. However, about my inner bitch. That is what I am trying to do. Damn it, it is so hard when you were trained to be the extension of someone.

      I want my inner bitch more than a new bike on Christmas.

      Delete
    40. Ell
      You have a limited historical view. However, lets drop it. What is the point of going over it, again and again?

      Delete
    41. How many times doe Elicit have to tell you that she's been reading this blog since August of last year? She doesn't have a limited historical view.

      So what are you lying to us about now, Monica? What's this condition you've decided I have?

      Delete
  22. Claw hammer people? what does that mean.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. People you want to kill with a claw hammer.

      Delete
    2. ^^^ And people say you're not interesting.

      Delete
    3. Yep, I have a good inner weirdo

      Delete
    4. What does SKETCH mean?

      Delete
    5. a term used to describe any noun that is of dubious character. Heavily used around where i live.

      Delete
  23. green eyes said..
    I was always told that I am evil and surely will go to hell unless I obey and be a good girl. They just pushed me too far, I guess.


    you're not evil. they're evil

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thank you, Zoe.
      I don't think all of them are evil, just weak and superstitious. My grandmother and sister are evil, however, since they both abused their children to make themselves feel better.

      Delete
    2. I agree with Zoe.

      Delete
    3. since they both abused their children to make themselves feel better.

      there should be a law that makes you take a course and pass an exam before you can have kids.

      Delete
  24. Any time a kink happens in my social interactions, whether it's a slip of my tongue or an unexpectedly aggressive reply, I dwell on it. It replays in my mind, and I dissect it to find out what I could have done differently. Did I misread the person's intentions? Was I not forthcoming enough? It's not that I truly care how people perceive me; I don't hunger for their acceptance or praise. But I very carefully cultivate my outward persona: it is charming, it is witty, and it is benign. So when it fails to work as planned, it's a serious problem. It throws into question all of the hard work I've put into it.

    If I make someone cry, I'm not disturbed because I've caused them pain. I'm disturbed because I don't mean to be seen as a negative source--now I have to apologize or feign sincerity, or all my effort to appear as a sympathetic and trustworthy person, and the emotional power it gives me over that person, vanishes.

    I'm disturbed because I control everything, all the time, and for me to not do that, or stumble--it's unacceptable.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Nobody continued the topic of shame vs. guilt from 2009? I found it interesting.

    I'm a person who can feel empathy and guilt. A so called "normal" person though I wouldn't say it's that black & white. In my mind all humans have flaws and sociopaths are right there with the rest of us. I've known some in my life as well as a couple of narcissists and several with aspergers. I have bipolar II and because of this I know what it feels like to "not feel" emotions or empathy at times and what it's like to fake it. To me it is an empty existence, it takes away my ability to connect with others and be with them. It doesn't feel bad but it also doesn't feel much like anything really. Feelings bring more intensitiy to life imo.

    I find the feelings of guilt and shame are quite different yet often intertwined and to most people they seem difficult to tell apart. Guilt is the tiny tinge you feel when you've hurt someone or done someone wrong. It's not such a terrible feeling without the shame. It's actually somewhat positive in a way... when you feel guilt for a reason, you also feel that you are a "good" person for feeling guilt because you should. There is empathy involved in guilt and empathy is often considered a virtuous human trait.

    When you feel shame it feels more dreadful. You're embarrased, you just got caught red handed and often there is no way to make it "right" and make the feeling go away by it. I feel that shame is the worst of the two and shame is what makes guilt feel so crappy aswell since they usually come together. OP's description sounds like shame to me too.

    Socially guilt helps us form bonds. We can trust a person who feels guilt for doing "wrong", that it will keep them in check. Shame on the other hand? Perhaps is serves a similiar function for us humans. To be able to function in societies, to build trust etc. When we see these feelings in others we will more easily trust them and be able to co-exist.

    ReplyDelete
  26. As a child I knew some violent children who showed no guilt or remorse and could be considered sociopaths by the diagnostic criteria. Their parents were also shitty.

    So it seems logical to me that if the two kids' parents didn't show empathy or guilt when they beat their kids then how would the kids be able to learn to feel these feelings? If there is nobody trustworthy around tho show them when and how and they have this natural lack thereof? They didn't learn. They beat up their friends just the same at very young age or threatened others with knives.


    So even if most humans naturally feel some feelings, I believe we are also taught to feel them in certain scenarios by society or our parents. When I was a kid I didn't feel empathy for a granny that fell over. My mom rushed over to help her and that is when I felt shame and guilt for not doing so. From that day on I decided to learn to be empathic like my mom and I did. I'm a "normal" person and I had to learn empathy.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Hello, I am an overly curious empath, and I have questions for any sociopaths who would be willing to answer. A lot articles written by empaths on sociopaths either state or imply that you feel almost no emotion. That is, that you not only lack guilt, but also joy, hope, love (which as my mother defines it, is "wanting the best for someone else as much or more than you want the best for yourself"), fear, extreme emotional pain, etc. Is this true? Would you be able to tell if it was true? Does art and music, etc, have personal meaning for you? Have you ever cried from emotion, not physical pain. Ever cried either because the world was too beautiful or because it hurt to much? Do any of you really believe in a god, and if so, what does that god look like? You are often portrayed as being both unemotional and sadistic, but in order to take pleasure from pain, wouldn't you have to understand both? Or are the things which are seen as sadistic simply done out of boredom? Okay, that was long and rambling, but if anyone has insights, I'd love to hear them.

    ReplyDelete

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