Guilt
I'm still learning a lot about myself. For instance, I was prompted recently to think about "guilt." A reader writes:
Sometimes I feel what I think may be guilt, but there's always a metaphorical voice in the back of my head telling me, "No, you only feel that way because your image was tarnished." That "voice" is incredibly difficult to pay attention to, by the way. I feel a horrible feeling whenever I do something that hurts someone and it can be linked back to me. If there is no link to me, I don't feel anything. It's very hard for me to differentiate between this and guilt, and I've frequently used it to justify my own humanity. But why don't I feel such things if nobody knows who caused it? It can't be guilt. I only care when there are consequences for me.
I reply:
That is interesting how you feel bad only when you are caught, essentially. I mean, it's a trite phrase -- "he's only sorry he got caught" -- but it is so true for me. I can actually feel really really badly about things that I got caught for, for whatever reason. But the phrase doesn't fit exactly. It's not like I feel disappointed that I couldn't get away with it. I just feel ... out of sorts. I feel like the world is an ugly place where I don't belong. That is what makes me feel bad. Definitely not, "oh, poor person I hurt." It's more like, "poor me for having to live in this ugly world and deal with this." This happened to me very recently when I stole/borrowed something from my neighbor, hoping she would never find out before I returned it. She did find out, though, and confronted me about it. Or she at least asked me about it and I didn't know what she knew so I just came clean, but spun a story of emergency, etc., figuring that would be better for me than to be caught in a lie. But she wouldn't have it. She threatened to call the authorities. Now that seemed like an overreaction by anyone's standards, but for some reason it deeply disturbed me. I think I realized how vulnerable I am, how hated I am just by virtue of what I am. I didn't really think about it at the time, but what you wrote really made sense to me. I wouldn't have felt the least tinge of guilt if I had never been caught, but being caught made me feel all sorts of guilt, or what felt like guilt at least. Maybe it was just regret.
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I'm still learning a lot about myself. For instance, I was prompted recently to think about "guilt." A reader writes:
I was just passing by--reading some of the lovely entries out of boredom/curiosity--and I noticed that a lot of people on here talk about "playing games" with "empaths". I was wondering what the connection between a lack of empathy and an interest in emotionally hurting people was? I mean, just because you lack empathy for others, doesn't mean you should/will find pleasure/entertainment in using them. Is that a separate trait of sociopathy or is it supposed to somehow stem from a lack of empathy? Because, I don't really see a connection between the two. Counldn't you be completely lacking in empathy while still treating people the way you would want to be treated? I just don't see where PURPOSELY hurting/using people would be of any interest either way (unless it's for revenge--which empaths also do). Not feeling remorse or emotional attachment is way more common than people are willing to admit, but actively trying to mess with other people just seems like a waste of energy. Just wondering.
ReplyDeleteI think what you're describing is shame. Not guilt. There's a big difference between the two, and a lot of the time, people confuse their meanings.
ReplyDeleteMilo said: "I think what you're describing is shame. Not guilt. There's a big difference between the two, and a lot of the time, people confuse their meanings."
ReplyDeleteReally? I'd love to hear more about this. I was fascinated when I realized that I didn't feel what other people felt when they do something they consider "wrong". There appears to be an intensity to these emotions that is alien to my own experience and I'd like to know more.
There's a difference between shame and guilt? What about regret? If there is a distinction in how these emotions are actually felt, what is it and how can you tell the difference?
To Curious:
ReplyDeleteAnother trait is dysphoria, meaning a lot of sociopaths have almost constant anger, along with constant boredom. Both of these cause sociopaths to look for things to amuse them, and their lack of emapthy accounts for how they may seem sadistic - all of us have a certain amount of Schadenfreude, but without empathy to hold us back it would be all we have.
I don't know about feeling guilt or shame, but when I get caught I feel acutely stupid for whatever mistake I made that lead to me getting caught.
ReplyDeleteAs for Curious's question... you know how bad things happening to other people can be funny? The Darwin awards are a rather extreme example, but I think most people can think of at least a few occasions where they have laughed at the misfortunes of others. Well, if you're bored (like anonymous said, a common trait for sociopaths) and want some entertainment, and have no little or no empathy or guilt, why not create amusing catastrophes for people?
Well, that and having power over people is a delightful feeling. The easiest kind of power to have over someone is the power to do harm to them.
In my own pain after being the victim to a sociopath's... boredom maybe, though Id like to think I was just what he thought he wanted at the time... I have done a lot of research and reading to understand why this person said he loved me but felt absolutely nothing at the actions of doing such evil things to me. I have come to the the strong conclusion that time is a concept to sociopaths that holds no meaning... They can not feel regret, regret requires concept of the past and they do not feel guilt for the same reason. Shame though! I agree with Milo. ME writes that it's the getting caught that twinges. My boyfriend slept with a girl just because it's forbidden in her religion to see if he could... no emotion. But at my pointing out that not only is this sick, but it was unfaithful and it hurt me. He put on the show. I was lucky... he dumped me before I could find out what he really was. His friend (the only one left) said he called him on it... "Why would you throw away someone who loves you?" No answer, he just put on the show. We found out that he would text torturing sexual texts to his ex about raping her... all the while telling me he wants to marry me and live the white picket fence life. It's just time. Maybe one moment he did want to sexually abuse her, and maybe the other moment he did 'love' me, and maybe when he was caught he did feel shame. I don't fully understand the concept yet. All I know is that the hurtful actions don't hurt for us empaths nearly as much as that the socio doing it to us feels no guilt. Any sociopaths reading care to comment? I want so much to understand the other side of this issue especially.
ReplyDeleteBroken Hearted wrote: "I want so much to understand the other side of this issue especially."
ReplyDeleteWhy?
As someone with emotional capacity and deep feelings of guilt and regret and pain, I cannot possibly fathom what it's like to destroy a person, especially one you so claimed to love for so long, and feel nothing. I guess I don't understand how he can live with himself and maybe if I did, I could move on from it.
ReplyDeleteI am a woman of science and medicine. I cope through understanding of technicals and details. Give me a patient, even a friend, with the tragedy of sickness or death and I can get through it better than any unfeeling sociopath, because I know how and why. But this... I can't beat it because I can't understand how he could hurt me so intently without guilt. I guess that is my only reason for wanting to understand. It won't change anything else.
-Broken Hearted
I think you could be on to something about sociopaths lacking a sense of time. I certainly don't think much about the past, which both makes learning from mistakes hard and getting over injuries easy. I'm not much for planning for the future either. I'm very much into living in the moment.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that's the reason that sociopaths don't feel guilt, though. It's more that the mental mechanism for acquiring morality is simply missing, or else severely underdeveloped. That, and being similarly unable to empathize with people leaves the sociopath with no source for guilt.
If it's any consolation, I'm similarly unable to truly understand why someone might feel guilt for the things you describe. Perhaps a sense of loss or regret at having destroyed a valuable relationship, if in fact the relationship was valuable to him (if not, obviously it wouldn't matter), but not guilt. It sounds, however, like he didn't value you all that much, or perhaps he grew bored of you.
"I think you could be on to something about sociopaths lacking a sense of time."
ReplyDeleteYes. We lack a sense of time. It's because we live in the moment.
Broken Hearted said: “I cope through understanding of technicals and details.”
ReplyDeleteOk then, turn your understanding of technicals and details onto your own thought processes. Turn inward. Notice what kinds of thoughts you are focusing on when you’re thinking about this guy and notice the emotions that accompany them. Question those thoughts, challenge them for their truthfulness. I think almost every mind comes standard equipped with a “sociopathic spin doctor” who rationalizes everything we do and tells us all the things we want to hear. Fortunately, I think almost every mind also comes standard equipped with at least a rudimentary ability to reason. Use that reason against the thoughts you believe which hinder your ability to move on. For instance, you say you need to understand how he could do what he did to you before you can move on. Is that true? Are you sure you can’t move on without understanding this guy first? What does moving on mean to you anyway? Be precise in your questioning. As one author puts it, set up a Spartan Meritocracy in your mind. Make thoughts and beliefs continually earn their right to be there. “THIS IS SPARTA!!!”
Seriously, you create your own happiness and your own suffering in this life. I believe this to be generally true for all of us. The intelligent and aware sociopath understands this better than many normals. You're not the victim your inner spin doctor wishes you to believe you are. Take responsibility for your own internal state of mind. You don’t need to understand why he did what he did in the past, you need to understand why you’re doing what you’re doing to yourself now.
Daniel that is my point exactly, im just too doped up on my stupid pills to put it into a sentence...
ReplyDelete"you don't need to understand why he did what he did in the past,you need to understand why you're doing what you're doing to yourself"...
makes perfect sense to me.
I can feel guilt and shame intensely....i just haven't found someone worthy of showing that to. lol...then again come to think of it i've never done anything to feel guilty about.
I think one of the most common thoughts when we've been dumped or crapped on by someone (sociopath or not) is "what did I do wrong?" Sometimes we can find an answer to this, sometimes we can't. Generally the worse we feel we've been treated or the longer such mistreatment goes on the longer and more desperately intense our quest for an answer to this question will be.
ReplyDeleteThe question arises because of our own insecurities. Self-doubt, self-confidence, call it what you will. I suspect true sociopaths (if there are actually any here) will not tolerate either abusive behaviour from a partner nor will they suffer from such insecurities which necessitate an answer to this question. Hence they will say "just move on."
My advice is that looking for an explanation for abhorrent behaviour in the realms of psychology is actually a total red-herring guaranteed to keep you in limbo and prevent you moving on. Google any personality disorder and you will find scores of "support" sites claiming knowledge of that disorder and populated by hundreds of people all asking "why oh why?" Many of these people are there for months, some for years all attempting to understand what does he/she have? what does that involve? what causes it? Why me? and back to the beginning again in an endless loop. The truth is you will never understand them now if you didn't know what was going on then. Its quicker to just think you've failed, blame yourself (for everything,) promise yourself to never do it again, amd then you can move on.
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