Tuesday, July 17, 2012

Sociopaths by definition criminal?

Some have suggested that sociopaths are by definition criminal. Even if that were clinically true, I think it is false practically speaking. The whole study of sociopathy is junk science at worst and misguided at best. Almost all studies of sociopaths have been done with the prison population, if not all. You study the prison population, and criminality will obviously end up as one of the defining characteristics of a sociopath. This is irresponsible. It would be like studying black people only amongst the prison population and listing criminality as a defining characteristic of being black. What if we studied homosexuality only amongst the prison population and extrapolated to the entire gay community? Would we think that homosexual sex was always antagonistic, a nonconsensual way of exerting social dominance? As one sociopath reader puts it:
Having respect for property doesn't mean it's not property. People keep their yards clean, and I prefer to keep my life, and those in it, clean. I don't think a person has to be essentially malicious to be a sociopath. As a sociopath, your perceived mal-intent boils down to how you'd treat your environment. It's unfortunate there's no broader diagnosis that doesn't require a preoccupation with cruel or criminal behavior. It doesn't seem so different from using a specific diagnoses for obsessive people who have a thing for cars, without having one for obsessive people in general. If you remove the specific interest, you still have an obsessive person; though, if you were to remove the obsessive traits, you would have a normal person with a hobby. If you remove the destructive tendencies from a textbook sociopath, you still have a man without a conscience--what I believe is the foundation of the disorder; however, if you give that same man a conscience instead, what's the essential difference between him and the rest of humanity?
The diagnosis of sociopathy now is just like any medical diagnosis ending in -itis: doctors generally don't care why whatever you have is swollen, they're fine using that one symptom to "diagnose" the disorder. Similarly equating us with criminal behavior, although not entirely inaccurate, is not very useful. Sure, we may sometimes commit crimes, but so do a lot of the otherwise law-abiding seeming people who haven't gotten caught and the other 80%-ish of the prison population who aren't sociopaths. And how is it that the rest of the sociopath population is not in prison? Are we all just very good at not getting caught? What a scary world that would be if all of us sociopaths were out committing heinous crimes all the time and walking amongst you. No wonder there are so many people deathly terrified of sociopaths.

244 comments:

  1. Two comments.

    the whole study of sociopathy is junk science at worst and misguided at best.

    Agreed. Outside of Hare’s work on psychopathy, and from what I’ve read it’s also controversial, there’s isn’t a whole lot of precision. There is, however, loads of stereotyping.

    If you remove the destructive tendencies from a textbook sociopath, you still have a man without a conscience--what I believe is the foundation of the disorder; however, if you give that same man a conscience instead, what's the essential difference between him and the rest of humanity?

    That’s as good a line of demarcation as any. Are you, for all practical purposes, without a conscience? Anyone who suspects they fit along the sociopathic spectrum of behaviors should ask and answer that question for themselves.

    One minor quibble. I'd leave out the disorder descriptor.

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  2. Sociopaths have more tendencies towards crime because of their disrespect for authority, lack of acknowledgement of societies morals, antisocial behaviour, lack of remorse and guilt, early behaviour problems, etc etc.
    I understand that the author is saying that not all sociopaths are criminals, but you should understand a large number of criminals are sociopaths. 75% APD and 25% of those are sociopaths. I find it hard to argue that sociopaths don't have a tendency towards crime. Equally, I find it difficult to say that crime is neccessarily a negative thing anyway. It's just a way to cut corners in our climb to the top.

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  3. Nation of typical empaths go to war with nation of typical sociopaths.

    Who wins?

    One will die for country and cause.

    One will rat out their brother if it's in their own best interest.

    Empathy is an evolutionary advantage. Many, many of humanity's great inventions and breakthroughs were born out of love for humanity, country, family, or all of the above. Where would we be, as a species, without it?

    If you were around in the stone age, would you be dedicating your life to discovering the wheel, or would you spend your time making sure that you got enough food to eat at the expense of others?

    I think the descriptor fits.
    Don't let your sociopathic traits cloud your objectivity. Many sociopaths are nowhere near as functional as you all seem to be. Sociopaths are overrepresented in prison for a reason. They can't control themselves, because they're born without the ability to see why it's necessary to do so. That is a disorder, with which some manage to cope, while others fail miserably.

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  4. Anonymous said, “Empathy is an evolutionary advantage.

    Not always. One lone but intelligent sociopath uses the masses belief in country and cause as levers to manipulate them into doing his bidding, for instance.

    But generally speaking, empathy, or the instinct to bond, has been advantageous to the species as a whole. I’ll grant that. Beyond that, what’s your point?

    I think the descriptor fits.

    This is where the lack of a commonly accepted definition of the term sociopath becomes problematic. You could be right in what you’re saying BUT the “problem” could also be the lack of whatever it is that hinders certain criminals from taking consequence into account, which in and of itself might be a separate issue. In other words, unless you believe that all people who fit the label of sociopath are unable to control themselves, what you’re saying about it being a disorder doesn’t necessarily follow. And even if it were proven that sociopathy equals uncontrollable criminality, it still doesn’t follow that it must necessarily be labeled a disorder. Spending time in prison is not necessarily proof of disorder. One man’s “disorder” is another man’s virtue. We’d have to define what we mean by disorder, why that definition should be normative, then couple that definition with one of sociopathology, and then explain why that definition should be normative, producing evidence all along the way. Roughly speaking.

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  5. Do you want to know if you are a sociopath? Ok, come with me please.

    I am going to line five objects in front of you raised waist high on pedestals and you are going to stick a knife in each of them.

    I guide you to the first object, an orange, and ask you to stick a knife in it, and you do, standing back to watch the syrupy nectar ooze from the lush fruit.

    I then walk you over to the second item in the line, a steak, and you stick a knife in it, noticing as you do that it is undercooked.

    We then move over to the third thing in the line, a noisy human head displayed sideways on a pedestal with its body and legs kneeing beside. I ask you to stick a knife in it, and you do, watching the eyeball pop and its contents ooze like the nectar from the orange.

    I direct you over to the fourth item in the line, a modal airplane, and you stick the knife in it, watching the wings crack in the middle and the toy modal crash to the floor.

    You quietly note as we head over to the last item in the line that you once enjoyed building modal airplanes as a child.

    We finally arrive at the fifth object in the line, a dish cloth, and you stick the knife in it, turning around with a smile and waiting for my verdict on how you performed.



    Look at your hand typing on the keyboard. Is it any different from the keyboard, or the orange, or the steak, the modal airplane, or the dish cloth? What makes something different-perhaps the meaning we attach to it? That is precisely what makes something different, and nothing else, think about it.

    The sociopath never internalized the moral components of his culture. He never learned that a modal airplane is different from a human head, or that the oozing of an orange should be perceived any differently then the oozing of an eyeball. The sociopath isn't bad, he is amoral. Objects are to him what they are in nature, meaningless, or rather objects of gratification--so they possess some meaning, but only that which gratifies the sociopath. Where for normal people and so-called "secondary sociopaths", meaning--or symbols attached to objects--may consist of, for example, safety (home)and nurturance (parents). If something is meaningful, it has the power to move and effect--feelings, emotions, beliefs, and values. To the sociopath everything, and I mean everything, are objects of gratification; they do not differentiate the computer table from the human arm, both can be chopped up and stored away in boxes in the basement.

    I know you all feel rejected by society or in someway resentful of it, but labeling yourself a sociopath will not solve your problems or justify them. Just to make sure you don't block out what I am saying via denial or rationalization, I want you to ask yourself these questions:

    "Do I love my parents?"

    "Could I kill my parents and friends if I could get away with it?"

    "If all my friends died would I be upset?"

    "Could I run up to a pregnant women getting into her car to go to the hospital and stab her protruding tummy with a bread knife, pulling out fragments of the fetus as I disengage, smiling and laughing at the stupid bitch who should of been on the look out?"

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  6. "One will die for country and cause."

    We generally make the cause that you die for and the pragmatism to make that a reality.

    One will rat out their brother if it's in their own best interest.

    I think it's safe to say empaths break before sociopaths do. We actually care about our image.

    "Don't let your sociopathic traits cloud your objectivity. Many sociopaths are nowhere near as functional as you all seem to be. Sociopaths are overrepresented in prison for a reason."

    Sociopaths run your country, empath, and they generally run everything else. You forgot to mention that we also have a larger number of CEOs represented. You need us as much as we need you. The shephards always need sheep.

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  7. Is anyone here actually diagnosed with a personality disorder?

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  8. For you folks to even be motivated to engage in these discussions requires empathy, think about it. Nothing what so ever can be gained by conversing with "fellow sociopaths". In fact, your presence on the site negates you being one; psychopaths are way too paranoid to flaunt their inherent difference and I don't blame them. They have to be nuts to risk exposure It is hard enough for them to fit in.

    Lol, you have used the criteria of a mental disorder as a means of finding people you can relate to, generalizing the traits to your and even creating in-groups and out-groups: empaths lol. You have no idea how deeply empathy permeates your lives. Simply acting like you don't care about people is not enough to say you lack empathy--try harder.

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    Replies
    1. Not necessarily so, because assuming that the few on this site that claim to be killers, looters and the like etc, how would they be caught? How would a police force identify and go about arresting them. Finally, after much effort in acquiring these people, where is the proof that they have actually committed these crimes, other than a so called confession which may be nothing more than a lie itself. This lie could be born out of the typical nature of this disorder (compulsive lying) or it could be merely a ruse to seem cool and fit in. Thus, it can not be concluded that going on this site necessarily poses a risk to any individual in terms of being caught out.

      However, this site is in someways useful in attracting those who do share common "anti-social" traits, and it can at times bring a relief to the feeling of exclusion from the masses. Its completely rational for those who can be in a room full of friends and still feel empty inside to try to find others like them, to realise that they are not the only one with this gaping void.

      It is quite hard to put across an idea that you genuinely don't have any "typical" care for things in words. Much harder to do so especially online. However this is what sociopaths/psychopaths tend to do in life itself, with the exception it tends to be the other way about, whereby they will tell people that they do feel something to fit in, to seem genuine and "human". Because typical empaths such as yourself (I assume) find it very hard to imagine/grasp the idea that you can live without a conscience, you assume that everyone is like you, such as you have demonstrated in your last paragraph particularly. To summarise, try thinking about that ;)

      Delete
    2. ... in a room full of friends and still feel empty inside ... the only one with this gaping void.

      Right there is your problem. No idea what it is, but it isn't sociopathy.

      Delete
  9. We already have a definition for disorder:

    dis⋅or⋅der
      /dɪsˈɔrdər/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [dis-awr-der] Show IPA
    Use disorder in a Sentence
    –noun
    1. lack of order or regular arrangement; confusion: Your room is in utter disorder.
    2. an irregularity: a disorder in legal proceedings.
    3. breach of order; disorderly conduct; public disturbance.
    4. a disturbance in physical or mental health or functions; malady or dysfunction: a mild stomach disorder.


    Note 2 and 4. An irregularity, a dysfunction. Shall we define dysfunction as well?

    dys⋅func⋅tion
      /dɪsˈfʌŋkʃən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [dis-fuhngk-shuhn] Show IPA
    Use dysfunction in a Sentence
    –noun
    1. Medicine/Medical. malfunctioning, as of an organ or structure of the body.
    2. any malfunctioning part or element: the dysfunctions of the country's economy.
    3. Sociology. a consequence of a social practice or behavior pattern that undermines the stability of a social system.


    Note 1, 2, and 3.

    Sociopaths have a disorder. They are dysfunctional. They're like cancerous cells that no longer play by the rules that keep the organism as a whole alive and healthy.

    You can argue semantics and say it's all a matter of perspective, but when you break it down, sociopaths are, by definition, dysfunctional. They are broken. They cannot feel empathy, and the benefits of their natural strengths are, like those provided by the "strengths" of cancer cells, unsustainable. Left unchecked, the organism, including the cancer (that's you) will die.

    Anon, you're right. We've got plenty of sociopaths at the top of the food chain. Just look at Enron, and you can see how much we need them, how well they do when they fail to cope with their disorder. Truly amazing things. We definitely need them.

    See, the thing about empaths, is that they can run a business, too. Having empathy doesn't make you stupid, just reliable and more likely to be trustworthy. Provided there were no sociopaths to contend with, business would flow more smoothly than ever with nothing but empath CEOs. Take away the sociopaths, the world continues to function without a hitch.

    Take away the empaths... and you've got a world of chaos on your hands. Look at how well this little social experiment of a blog panned out. Everyone is at each other's throats constantly. You can't have a meaningful conversation without someone trying to make a power play or ridicule someone.

    That image you talk about? What's it matter in a nation of sociopaths. You all maintain your image to appeal to the empathetic masses, and if that's the only thing keeping you in check, I don't think anything more needs to be said.

    And yes, sociopaths innately have poor behavior controls. Does that mean you can't learn to look out for your best interest? No, of course not. That's what coping is all about, and that's the difference between a high functioning sociopath and your run-of-the-mill sociopathic, criminal loser who lives to get high and manipulate people into amusing him. There's a lot of gray area in between as well.

    I'm not arguing that it can't be advantageous at times to be a sociopath, or to have one (temporarily, as always) on your side. There are plenty of fields where a lack of empathy is extremely helpful, provided you can control your impulses. Again, high functioning.

    If you're really so intent on believing that something so obvious dysfunctional, as a whole, isn't actually a disorder, be my guest. You're only fooling yourself, so what's it matter to me?

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  10. so what's it matter to me?

    LOL! Indeed.

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  11. As said before: We need you empaths as much as you need us. Where would you be without us to lead you. I just wish the site was more about harnessing skills instead of empaths scrambling to be a sociopath like some cult or a therapy section for the depressed.

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  12. Pager, that's where you're wrong.

    Empaths can lead empaths. Sociopaths are just better at manipulating them into following--for the wrong reasons. You function within a niche, and that niche is all you've got. Most of it involves imitating what you don't have: empathy, loyalty, honesty, integrity. With that plastic personality masking a predatory inner being, it's easy to win out over genuine, but imperfect, people. At the end of the day though, it's still just a cheap imitation of something that's inherently present in a great many empaths.

    My point is that without sociopaths, empaths function and prosper just fine. But without empaths, you sociopaths are just plain fucked.

    Don't delude yourself into thinking it's a two way street.

    Daniel,
    I'll take that as the concession it obviously is.

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  13. Daniel,
    I'll take that as the concession it obviously is.


    APPLAUSE!!! YAY!!! LOL.

    Take it any way you like my friend.

    I got bored.

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  14. Pager, that's where you're wrong.

    Pager has a lot of things wrong. Like thinking sociopaths don't suffer from comorbidity. He is under the delusion that sociopaths are super beings who are almost robot like. Except for being SUPER POSITIVE! Which totally doesn't speak about his own issues. Nope, not at all.

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  15. Look at how well this little social experiment of a blog panned out. Everyone is at each other's throats constantly. You can't have a meaningful conversation without someone trying to make a power play or ridicule someone.

    I blame pager for sticking up for his borderline girlfriend and for being black, of course.

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  16. Anonymous:
    We can argue all day who would survive without who, but the reality is the existance of both since the dawn of time. We serve our purpose, and you serve our purpose. This is the state of affairs like it or not. I dont see what issues you have with people being pragmatic. It's definatly something empaths lack.
    We will gain leadership through whatever means we feel is neccessary, you are right there as well. What do you expect? You think we can change who we are? Almost all empaths I know have no idea I am what I am, they just say I have good leadership skills and I'm persuasive. They have no idea what I'm thinking and have no clue they are pawns. How can it be wrong if nobody knows? Like a tree falling in a forest type thing. At least now their life has purpose. Thunderball has spent the last couple of months in here being manipulated and he never knows either. Is that wrong?

    Lastly to my beloved thunderball:

    We've established who the one with issues is Thunderball. Dry your eyes and cut your wrists.

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  17. We've established who the one with issues is Thunderball. Dry your eyes and cut your wrists.

    Stop hiding, the best you've got is that i've... exposed myself. But you sit back in comfort while blasting everyone with your Tony Robbins positivity. I know nothing about you. I'm sure if I did I could rip you apart. But alas, I know you will never expose yourself even to the tiny degree I did.

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  18. I won't you're right. It's not what I came here for. Maybe you should try some of that positivity. It'll work wonders in your life.

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  19. Thunderball has spent the last couple of months in here being manipulated and he never knows either. Is that wrong?

    Manipulated by who and for what goal? Jesus, you are delusional.

    "HAHA, I've manipulated the guy posting under Thunderball to do my evil deeds! The world will be mine soon! MINE!!!!" pager aka. delusional crazy

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  20. I won't you're right. It's not what I came here for.

    You seem to have made the pager id singly to attack me, at least until you had thought I was gone. You lose.

    Maybe you should try some of that positivity. It'll work wonders in your life.

    hahaha

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  21. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  22. Wassup, Peter!

    I'm going to end this argument with a quote from, jascumflake. Dumbass bitch fell fell into my trap even though she knew what I was doing. So good, so tasty.

    jasnowflake said...

    Thunderball you entertain me. It's so much fun to see people get all worked up over you, not knowing that they're feeding you, completely. That they're insults are laughable because they're only being manipulated by you to hate them... And they still try. How do they not see it? You practically tell them. It amuses me greatly.
    July 8, 2009 12:34 AM


    All I can really say now is.... aaahahahahahahahahahahahaha! I love it bitches!

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  23. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  24. No, no, keep going, both of you. This is fucking awesome.

    Naa, I'm done playing with the robot retard sticking up for his cunt girlfriend. He can go ahead and continue his american psycho imitation. Though I do appreciate him dancing to my tune with such a positive attitude.

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  25. The concession was implicit.
    Boredom is a wonderful crutch.

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  26. I'm with anonymous on this.. Such intelligent words, shut them all down with not even an incoherent debate! Lovveee ya anon.

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  27. He conceded a while ago, but alas he can't help himself. Jsnowflake inspired me to get fluffball all worked up. It wasn't hard seeing his history of throwing a tantrum when anyone mentioned his name. This guy's hilarious. Like a depressed Jim Carry.
    It is on the contrary. You've been dancing to my tune my friend and I've been laughing at your comments the whole time. You even have to post after thoughts, then post post-after thoughts on any comment I make. You must lie awake at night like you said earlier.
    I admit you are at loss, since I don't post personal things about myself on a sociopath website, then again what sociopath would. That's not cowardice my friend (Typical empath's false feelings of honor), that would just be plain common sense. Something you, fluffball, seem to lack. You certainly try to 'game' (what a nerd word to use) it out of people since you already regret making that big mistake. You've had everyone from some guy named after the captain of never never land to a criminal fuck with you. Now it's my turn. How awful it must have felt to have everyone kick your emotions around on this site and have to defend your sorrows. This is a lot for you to answer, so let me end here. I'm sure It'll take you four post-post-post-after comments.

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  28. No thunderball, actually, on this one I have to agree that you've lost complete control of your argument and are being manipulated. Your responses to each attack show an obvious amount of insecurity, and the fact that your responses contradict each other every time you post shows their defensiveness and therefore your complete loss of control. You made yourself vulnerable by posting so much about yourself and are now reaping what you sow. You even conceded and thus had the upper hand for a moment, but your lack of self control and inability to let it all go, as I said shows your insecurity, and you've handed the power you had over people into the hands of Pager. It's actually kind of funny to see you being the mouse in the cats paws. I'm ever more amused by you now than before.

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  29. Welcome back snowflake. We were just talking about you. You've missed so much.

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  30. Looks like all that blowing didn't do you any good, big bad. The three little biggies are still pulling a train on that once-tight asshole of yours. Thunderball, how does it feel to be raped by three fat, smelly midgets?

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  31. pager:

    question for you on the ' how to read people like a sociopath' thread if youre willing. youll have to scroll from bottom up. Its at: JULY 29, 2009 8:15 AM

    ReplyDelete
  32. These time warp posts throw me off every time. At least that Gunge idiot and the Chorus Monicarum haven't shown up, yet.

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    Replies
    1. Name calling... I rest my case. Postmodern (selfproclaimed) Sociopath; I haven't really seen anything of value from you at all, but I am still going thourgh old and older post; maybe you have a nugget deep in here some where that might be of some great worth. In the mean time, let's play.

      Delete
    2. Post, the Gunge wants to play with you!!!!!

      Delete
    3. Chorus Monicarum. Very Funny.

      Delete
    4. Let's sing it: "Play mate, come out and play with me"

      Delete
    5. Hey Johnny! You haven't been in the forum for a while. Your pleasant presence was missed.

      Delete
    6. Monica’s name is Legion, for they are many…

      Delete
  33. I'm not misbehaving, I'm a sociopath. Please be understanding!

    Join the sociopath support group!

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  34. Monicarum. :-)
    Its the simple things.
    Gunge is the new Juan.

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    Replies
    1. You guys may complain about Gungy or me, but if you didn't have new meat, you would be eating each other.

      Delete
    2. I find it interesting just how quickly many of the personalities attack on this site (and I have a sneaking suspicion more than one are the same individual). Most if the attacks seem to be petty and resort to nothing more than a difference in opinion; rapidly the argument regresses to name calling and not much more.
      I say all that for this: I don’t know who Juan is or was or anything about any of you really, and you nearly nothing about me. So, for the sake of future discussions; A few nights back someone asked why I came here (never could get that out of UKan; his reason for coming) and I said revelation, misfortune and boredom.
      Revelation in being just a few months ago I had an epiphany as to who I really was, what I really was, and how I seem to go about things.
      Misfortune: I broke my leg last Friday and will be in this cast until next week. I have nothing to do but surfer the tube and the net. During my revelation I came across this site about three or four weeks ago and recalled some of the insightful conversations and the interesting playful banter from some of the regulars. So when the…
      Boredom set in from being stuck on my couch I chose to visit and attempt to engage in meaningful discourse or have a little fun. I don’t like video games; pushing people’s buttons is much more fun.
      With that, if you see me, want me, or need me to be your new Juan… fine. But I would say how about just check Gungy out and play with him while you can, as soon as this cast comes off I’ll be gone. Play with me if you like; be it spiteful banter or intelligent discourse I don’t care. Just play with me! I’m bored and love to laugh.

      Delete
    3. I'd say that these attacks are working, just look how much you wrote ;)

      Delete
    4. No, Eden. That is stupid reasoning.

      Delete
    5. Yea, it couldn't be my insaitable appetite for myself could it?

      Delete
    6. Eden is a multiple personality, so she could be ten people. That is what you are picking up Gungy.

      Delete
    7. shut up monica or atleast write as yourself

      Delete
    8. Does anyone know if "Gungy" is Monica? I see some
      similar traits........

      Delete
    9. monica certainly likes to "USE" people!

      Delete
    10. I'm not sure if you will believe anything that gets posted, but no I'm not anyone other than me... The Gungy (vaginal ooze, sticky gunk, or extremely motivated; yours to decide).

      From what I have seen of Monica, she's a born again christian trying to save a bunch of wack-jobs who keep coming to this site for some type of self-validation. I don't care about any of you, nor do I think you need to be saved. I would be nice if all could be made a little more intelligent but that ain't gonna happen, Charlie Potatoes!

      Delete
    11. ^NOW, I KNOW GUNGY IS MONICA!

      Delete
    12. (Throw a line; get a bite)

      Can't wait to hear how you have come to this logical conclussion (although incorrect). Would also love to know who you are, but I understand many here need the mask of anonymity.

      Delete
    13. I planted the seed but others already knew it, also.
      Ask Ukan.

      Delete
    14. I would love to ask UKan afew things... seems he may just be a bit more interesting a mouse than I first thought.

      If somehow me being Monica works for whoever is on here and allows them to make sense of this mess, then very well; but I am the Gungy.

      ... still waiting on the connecting files of logic though on as to how you might draw The Gungy to Monica. And please don't tell me to ask someone else, it's bad enough you post as an anon... now speak for your masked self! Have some courage!

      Delete
    15. In the Forum: monica = V = A Friend.

      Delete
    16. Revelation in being just a few months ago I had an epiphany

      Would you care to elaborate on the details of this?

      Delete
    17. (Anon, you are shark fishing my friend; getting bit is a risk)

      I'm still not tracking. Am I suppose to go to the forums and try to decipher the ramblings of what could all be the same person? Or at least the small cult of regular followers who somenow have established themselves as special specials because of their tenure?

      Anon, when I get bored I quit or break things... let me see who you are and decide which I am about to do.

      Delete
    18. Elict, one moment and I'd love to (talking about me is fun).

      Delete
    19. monica = gungy 7:10

      Ooooo love it!

      Delete
    20. Revelation (elaborated):
      A few months ago what seemed to be a perfect storm of stress moved through my life. As the storm began to dissipate, I noticed trends of how I have conducted myself in order to get to where I am in life. I haven’t been the nicest of people (to put it mildly). I have lied, cheated, stole, manipulated, and worse to some of the people who were supposed to be the closest to me; all without guilt or shame.

      Now, if my whole life I wore Amish clothes, conducted myself like Amish, and though like an Amish but had never really known what an Amish was; you can image my surprise to wake up one day and see someone dressed as I do, acts as I do, and thinks along the lines I do. Does it mean I’m Amish? I don’t know.

      I woke up and saw that I indeed have sociopathic tendencies, traits, and actions. I don’t know if I’m Amish… but here in my 40s I now KNOW what I do and how I do it, and how do or don’t feel. Looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck… what is it?

      Delete
    21. At this point I expect to see an Anon post:

      "Your Mom."

      Delete
    22. Gungy
      "Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck....what is it?"

      How many times have you read "ducks in a row" in monica's past posts?

      Delete
    23. hmm ... what about these aspects of the disorder, can you any of your experiences relate to them at all?

      " ... impulsiveness or failure to plan ahead;
      irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
      reckless disregard for safety of self or others;
      consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations ... "

      Delete
    24. gungy = monica

      No, I'm 40 years younger than her mother.

      Delete
    25. (Can anyone else hear the theme song to Jaws growing louder behind this Anon; keep fiching Bubba, you're about to get a big one)

      I haven't really read many of Monica's posts except those of the past few nights. I don't know if she talks about ducks, lepresy, or Nestle Tollhouse Cookies (wouldn't that be funny if that's like Monica's favorite cookie!?! and I brought it up and it further tied Gungy to Monica and...)

      Anon, do you like to find faces in the clouds too?

      Delete
    26. Ellicit. We should remeber that what the traits you are pulling from are those that have been established by DIS-functioning persons of our society marked as being psychopathic. Yes, I have exhibited nearly all those traits at some time or another since the age of about... forever.

      Delete
    27. Yes, of course those are traits that describe disfunction and impairment. We are talking about a personality disorder, after all. So can you describe or give examples of your own experiences with a disordered personality?

      Delete
    28. So, Elicit and Ellicit are one and the same?

      I was repeatedly in the principal's office from K - 2nd Grade for fighting. i would fight at the drop of a hat. It would get worse, but by 3rd grade I had figured out that the ramifications for fighting in public place such as school could be very hard on me... so the fights and violence became a little more controled in that I started picking the times and places better.

      However; there would still be a few instances where I couldn't control. 7th Grade i stabbed a pencil about an inch, inch and a half into the kids shoulder blade sitting front of me during Social Studies... I was bored. That one left a mark.

      (more to follow concerning other traits)

      Delete
    29. Impulsive? I went to the USMC recruiter on Monday (age 24), I was at Parris Island wedenseday (knid of an impulse; my life is riddled with them),

      but...

      I'm not sure about the not planning ahead part... I just don't plan because I believe I can make it all work on the fly.

      Delete
    30. "reckless disregard for safety of self or others; consistent irresponsibility,"

      I kind of see these as one and the same. Where should we start... 145mph on a motorcycle with my girl on the back? Willingness to repeadtley exppose oneself to gunfire just with the hopes of being able to kill that fucker shooting at you?

      Yea, I'm all over this one too.

      I HAVE kept "a" job (career almost) for a considerable amout time. Other than the USMC, I went from job to job to job... (remeber I joined at 24; dropped at a college before that and did everything from apprentice chef to concrete and steel construction.) However; some might say this keeps me at the "high-functioning" spectrum of someone who may have an anti-socila personality disorder.

      Delete
    31. I say all of that becuase I am going to try and be as open as I can (I have a tendency to with hold information and distort it for my advantage) just for the sake of fun and the ability to take (in my mind) the high ground when it comes to quid pro quo. I answer in the hopes I might get answers (just a different form of bait really).

      Delete
    32. Ellicit
      Instead of picking apart other people( which anyone can do) why don't you talk about yourself? That is a lot harder than being an ass and judging others.

      Delete
    33. That is a lot harder than being an ass and judging others.

      What? You're attacking me without provocation. I thought you said you don't do that, Monica?

      Delete
    34. You are being judgmental of Gungy. Why don't you talk about yourself? It sucks that you judge him, me and other people, but are too chicken to give any info about yourself.

      Delete
    35. Umm, I'm not sure where I had shown my judgement of anyone on this site. Although I judge all the time. As for picking apart me (pickin' scabs again), why? There's nothing to pick apart. There's nothing to figure out. Should you want ot know something about me, ask... I might entertain. As a matter of fact Ellicit. The past few days I have come with posts about how I feel concerning the days topic, and almost so far I receive name calling and sophomoric ridicule. The being an Ass part is just part of who I am.

      Delete
    36. Where am I being judgmental? I've asked him more about himself and I've passed no opinion on him other than when he tried to make out he had done terrible things the other day. This is you turning on me and making an attack with no cause. Something you keep claiming you don't do.

      Delete
    37. Did I use the word terrible? Let me see...

      Delete
    38. Well, you are good at attacking, Ell, but anyone can do that. Try to share something of yourself. You attack me all the time, too. Anyone can do that. That doesn't make you anything but a turd.

      Delete
    39. And too chicken to give any info about myself? WTF. I've spoken with you at length about our mothers and violence. So cut it out, Monica.

      Delete
    40. Nope, not terrible things. I said i have done some things that most of society might deem as vulgarly inexcusable. It would be someone else's decision to say if they were terrible.

      Delete
    41. Yes, you have talked a bit about that but that is all. You don't talk about your feelings, fears, hopes, desires. It is easy to stay up in the Forum, as a pack animal. Who can't do that? Talk about weak. That is weak.

      Delete
    42. Passive - aggressive, Aggressive - aggressive. Monica, you're gonna save these fuckers if it kills them aren't?

      Delete
    43. So far you have called me judgmental, an ass, turd and weak, all in an unprovoked attack today. How do you justify that when over the past week you have been claiming that is what you never do?

      Delete
    44. Ellicit
      Talking about yourself takes real guts.

      Delete
    45. So admitting to having committed violent assaults on my mother and others doesn't count? Is that what you're saying? I've not shared my dirt frequently enough to satisfy your requirements here? Sounds to me like you're trying to deny me my own identity and you are launching an unprovoked attack.

      Delete
    46. Ellicit
      Why do you attack me up in the Forum? You don't do it to me, directly. If you have something to say to me, do it to me, not behind my back. I have no respect for that.

      Delete
    47. wtf are you talking about? We've gone from nothing to you hurling abuse because I'm supposedly judgmental. Then it's because I don't talk about myself. Now I'm supposedly attacking you in the forum? This is bullshit, Monica. You just felt like slapping someone and I'm the only one here right now apart from Gungy.

      Delete
    48. Huh?

      Umm... word. Monica does seem to like being the center of attention (fishing?).

      Delete
    49. What I meant was I suspect you fish for response sometimes, regardless what your motives maybe... I think you do.

      Delete
    50. Ellicit
      You come down here and have a great talk with me and then you go talk trash about me.

      Delete
    51. Where is this trash talk, Monica? The only recent mention I've made of you was saying you're many kinds of fun to green eyes, and making you the star of SW Shades of Grey. That's just silly fun. You're attacking unprovoked and I want a fucking apology.

      Delete
    52. Girls, girls... you're both pretty! Now, can we get back to the subject at hand:

      ME!!

      (Didn't anyone read that I'm sitting here with a broken leg bored out of my friggin mind looking for buttons to push)

      Delete
    53. Where's Ellicit's avatar? hmmmmmm

      Delete
    54. Right after we had our talk about our mothers, which I appreciated, you went to the Forum and said you were toying with me.

      Delete
    55. (Oh FUCK sakes... now we have a brave and courageous Anon in the fray)

      Delete
    56. A one women's show?

      I'm out of here.......

      Delete
    57. I did not say I was toying with you, Monica. Quote it or cut this bullshit out. You're changing the reason for this unprovoked attack every 15 minutes.

      Delete
    58. Gungy,
      How courageous is monica when she posts Anon? huh?

      Delete
    59. (OK, this could be fun...)

      Monica? Oh, MAAAHNAAAKHAAAAA?

      Delete
    60. Anon 11:21 - I haven't said Monica is courageous.

      Delete
    61. My other reason for being here other than to push peoples buttons, Anon, was for meaningful conversation to. How 'bout you just scroll to the bottom and let's you and I talk about property.

      Delete
    62. M.E. just got a report........

      Delete
    63. I really was having a conversation with just one person, wasn't I? How funny.

      Delete
    64. Nope, there are many of us here...

      Delete
    65. Either way... I'm getting different perspectives.

      Delete
  35. This post kind of dovetials and goes along with what i was saying a couple nights ago. Almost everything we know of psychopathy/sociopathy is dervied from data that has been taken from mostly unwillingly participants from a tainted test bed. Those here claiming to "know" what a pscho is or isn'twith 100% certainty need to rethink their positions (but then again I suspect them to be at least narssists and will fall too far in love with their "knowledge" to open up to the possible).

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. YES, we are just a bunch of narcissists

      Delete
    2. I don't know if all the regulars are nrcisstist or not. I have heard it said every sociopath is a nrassist just not all narcissits are psychos. From what I have seen this theory seems to hold true... I haven't met a psycho yet who wasn't in love with themself. But I have found the psychos to at least admit it, even without verbal admission, and then we can go from there. Narcissit seem to not to get it. They cling to their image WAY too much and aren't open to new ideas and change... unless it's "their time" for change and new things.

      Delete
    3. How can you tell then a person is in love with himself?

      Delete
    4. Image equals Kany LOL

      Delete
    5. please don't interrupt

      Delete
    6. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    7. Really, Monica?
      Let me guess, if Kany shows up to tear you a well deserved new one, you are going to commence calling her 'nasty' since she attacks you unprovoked, right?

      Delete
    8. No, to assess the provoker and provokee, you have to go back to the original provocation. The initial provocations set off a chain of such, which has resulted in the present state of affairs.
      Get yourself with the program, Green eyes.

      Delete
    9. And you attacked me today without provocation, Monica. Where's my fucking apology?

      Delete
    10. You attacked me in the Forum but I am too lazy to find it. I am waiting for your apology, Ell. When you give it to me, we can go on, as friends.

      Delete
    11. You can't find it because it isn't there. Your reason for attacking me changed each time I challenged you on it. Now you're clinging to smoke and mirrors so you can maintain your holier than thou delusions. You're a worse abuser than I am, Monica.

      Delete
    12. I will find it, Ell. You can look if you want. It was after we talked about our mothers.

      Delete
    13. I am too lazy to look. You can, if you want. It was after our discussion about the mothers.

      Delete
    14. I don't need to look, Monica. I know what I have and haven't said. You just wanted an excuse to go after someone today because being abusive makes you feel better. You wouldn't have had to come up with a new excuse every time I questioned it if you had cause. Now admit you were wrong and apologize for calling me judgmental, ass, turd and weak, you abuser.

      Delete
    15. NOPE
      Find it. You attacked me. Find it and we will go from there.

      Delete
    16. What's next, Monica? Are you going to start talking about Ellicit and myself gaslighting like it's going out of style, then use that as a justification?

      You really refuse to see any wrongdoing on your own behalf, don't you? You just can't admit that you look for any pathetic excuse to start on people.

      You are not the innocent avenging angel you like to portray yourself as.

      Delete
    17. Ok green eyes
      You start first on how you treated me. Do that, if you are such a big shot.

      Delete
    18. Find it. You attacked me. Find it and we will go from there

      How fucking dare you, you abusive bitch. Telling me to find your proof to justify you when I know it isn't there. Did you pull shit like this with your son, Monica? I bet you did. He turned his murderous rage towards his mother in on himself instead of taking the claw hammer to you, isn't that right, you abusive bitch?

      Delete
    19. You stupid ass hole. Don't talk to me again, you fucking loser.

      Delete
    20. I never claimed to be a big shot. I have never denied that I find you insufferable. I admit that I will attack you whenever I'm bored enough to bother. You do give plenty of ammunition, however.

      I tried to help you, I tried to be nice, for a while anyway. Then your hypocrisy and delusion started to grate on me.

      That's not really the point, though, is it? I'm not the one claiming to be an innocent lamb, doing her hardest to heal and show others the light, whilst all these nasty bastards attack me unprovoked.

      One difference between us is that I know I'm a bitch and an abuser and admit it. I don't hide my rage and narcissism behind a facade of goodness.

      Delete
    21. And there you go. That's the real Monica. Evil person of the lie that you are. An abuser. No hiding it, Monica. Anyone who has followed this blog for the time you, in your several incarnations, have been coming here has seen it over and over again. I'm not going to let you forget that you started this when I've been nothing but civil to you.

      Delete
  36. Well, Anon 5:34am, they say it takes one to know one. I have been told I am arrogant, conceded, vian, and without a doubt in love with myself. Do you ask because you have problems seeing people who are in love with themselves?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm just trying to understand what it means. People have told me these things too, but I don't think that have feelings for myself.

      Delete
    2. Hmm, let me ask you this; let us say for the sake of arguement your favorite ice cream is chocolate. You have just enough to give each of us about a half a scoop of ice cream. What do you do?

      Delete
    3. Eat as much as I am capable of and let you have the rest (if I can't put it in a fridge).

      Delete
    4. One more question; you come across an extra $1000, do you tell your spouse? How do you spend the money?

      Delete
    5. I don't tell about the money and keep it until I need to buy something.

      Delete
    6. That, more than likely, is you having thoughts/feelings/whatever of yourself. I almost think of no one other than me.

      Delete
    7. But it's not like I was thinking about myself in those situations, I was thinking about ice-cream and money...

      Delete
    8. But I kind of understand what you said.

      Delete
    9. And how a narc would answer those questions?

      Delete
  37. depends on your relationship to your spouse.

    normally you don't tell your spouse about extra money because they will a) assume half is theirs or b) ask you how you spent it and then make some judgment about how you should have spent it on sthg else.


    If your priority is to secure their head is in the clouds about you, you buy them something thoughtful and beautiful and say making them happy was the first thing you thought of we you got the money.


    Or you sock it away with all your other secret money. For when you hit the road.

    Money is power.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Not sure this is the same Anon. The point was to try and see if Anon could grasp feelings for themself. I heard someone say not to long ago, "I love you, but I love me just a bit more"
      I love that.

      Delete
  38. Another thing I just gleaned from the article was the talk about property. Property being objects which ownership can be established. I take care of my things. That's who I am. Something in me makes me want my things to stay nice; since I'm naturally lazy, I rarely play with my things as they are kept in boxes. My property is mine. I have been told often that as a child I didn't play well with others and was able to amuse myself to much greater success than most children. I have been told recently by those who I thought were friends growing up that I didn't share well at all. Take this principle of the collection compulsion and lay the framework on my life: MY family; MY wife; MY son... it could just as easily be MY house; MY car; MY boat.

    The problem comes back to inherent laziness and easily prone to boredom. After a while the car, house, boat; all loose their luster, but the maintenance on them is fairly easy so I do it

    People (no matter how close) loose their luster too, but required up keep on them is much greater... This can pose problems.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Do you really view your wife and son as objects that you possess?

      Delete
    2. I'm curious, Gungy, let's hypothetically say that I asked you to run away with me to have some serious fun in Kitum cave.
      Would you be tempted to simply discard them?

      Delete
    3. No. I don't know you. I don't know what you would have to offer me other than a very messy romp in Ebola infect bat guano. And I would need a reason to throw my things away, however; all I need is a reason.

      Delete
    4. Now, GE, if you happen to about 5' 2"; 120lbs with beautiful dark hair and dark skin to go with the green eyes... and I were to ask you to runaway with me for a time you can't imagine, would you be interested?

      Delete
  39. To all individuals reading this thread. Do not allow what is said here to distract you from what is important. These are types of anti-social personality disorders and the people suffering from them are often involved in acts of extreme violence, if you believe you are in contact with a Psychopath or Sociopath you should under NO circumstances engage with them and seek immediate professional help. If you are involved in any respect with an individual suffering from psychopathy or sociopathy you are already in danger. These individuals have no concern for you or the safety of others and you should do nothing but stay as far from them as possible, do not engage in conversation with them or go near them in any respect.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That's a bit prejudicial. I'm quite the modern gentleman, thank you very much.~

      Delete
  40. Laws are based on what you do not what are, or what your motives are. I thought we solved this one back in the enlightenment era.

    ReplyDelete
  41. You lie to yourself, Green Eyes. You see people in black and white. Bitch, people have shades of grey. You see in black and white which makes you have very little depth.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Projection, you person of the lie. You would rather cling to your delusions than face the truth about yourself. I'm not surprised considering part of that truth is the death of your child, you fucking monster.

      Delete
  42. Ellicit
    You are two faced. That is the worst kind of weak.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm not two faced, you stupid, malignant bitch. I don't claim that I'm not violent and abusive like you do.

      Delete
    2. You do it outside too.

      Delete
  43. One difference between us is that I know I'm a bitch and an abuser and admit it. I don't hide my rage and narcissism behind a facade of goodness.

    you do it outside of sociopathworld so what is the difference between me and you?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The difference is that you lie to yourself and everyone else. You claim you don't attack unprovoked when you do. Can you tell the difference yet between when I'm being civil to you and when I am actually attacking, you deranged cunt.

      Delete
    2. To you and Green Eyes
      I am here to regain my cast off parts which is my rage. I have been too "nice" and too "good".

      Delete
    3. You are right, Green eyes. I am frozen in "good". I have had two ulcers( which I cured by natural means, myself) and have awful depression.

      Delete
    4. Too nice and too good? That's people of the lie talk. The reality is that you are abusive. You do it because it makes you feel better. The difference between us is that I don't need to cling to false justifications the way you do. You attacked me today without provocation. Did your son hate you, Monica? Do you blame yourself for his suicide?

      Delete
    5. I know what I do and don't have access to, in myself. I need to let my inner bitch out. I need to be able to claw someone's eyes out when they mess with me. I need to be able to rip them a new one. I need to do all that, without GUILT.

      Delete
    6. What happens when you punch Ellicit or green eyes in the face and beat them till their jaw's broken? Do they cry? Do they come after you to take revenge?

      Delete
    7. No, they don't come after me. Why do you ask?

      Delete
    8. they're bitches. Punch green eyes in the face and she goes home crying.

      Delete
    9. Awwww Monica xxxooo

      Delete
    10. You deranged, bitch, you already do all of that without guilt because you hide behind your illusions. You are abusive. Maybe you learnt it from your mother. I know you've dished it back outside of SW because by your own words you've psychologically abused your mother to the extent that it sent her into some shame spiral. Did you exercise your power like that with your son too, Monica? How did he take his own life? A rope? Pills?

      Delete
    11. Shut up Ellicit
      You stupid whore. Get fucked, bitch.

      Delete
    12. He shot himself in the head actually lol

      Delete
    13. Your poor mother. Only wanted the best for you, and the things you accuse her of ... I bet that sexual molestation was just her trying to bath you, you horrid bitch. Did you accuse your son of things too? Did you refuse to believe him when he told you what was being done to him?

      Delete
    14. He shot himself in the head actually lol

      LOL??? You filthy piece of fucking scum.

      Delete
    15. I didn't care about my son nor my mother, I care only about myself. Your insults won't work you little abused bitch. I have less of a heart than you, bitch.

      Delete
    16. Holy mother of fuck, Monica.
      To laugh about your son blowing his brains out? Bravo!

      Delete
    17. Yes, I'm not as sensitive as you are little abused bitch. Tell me green eyes, how was it getting abused by your parents and then crying about it by breaking your neighbour's windows?

      Delete
    18. Green eyes has done nothing to you, you abusive nutcase.

      Delete
    19. I admit that I am a fucking abuser that cares about nothing but myself. I admit it. Green Eyes, you claim to be an abusive bitch but you were really sensitive about your parents abusing you, did the pain finally go away or is it still inside, making you angry everytime you think about what the horrible things your parents have done to you?

      Delete
    20. The pain and rage go away, or at least diminishes greatly, when you confront them and give them a bit of a taste of their own medicine. When you realise that they are beneath your contempt.

      You should try it before your dear old mum dies of natural causes and you spend the rest of your time on here rambling about how you were so strong, so ready, but never got the chance.

      Delete
    21. The pain didn't go away green eyes, why are you lying to yourself? They made you into a little nasty bitch who's abusive towards her boyfriends. That's the pain coming out of your mouth everytime you're abusing them. Everytime you're abusing people, it's the pain of the words and beatings you took from your parents that comes out of your mouth.

      Delete
    22. I'm not lying to myself. Sure, I abused plenty of weak men, I enjoyed every minute of their misery.
      But I am a great wife. Then again, not so great that I would let my husband abuse a child to keep him from dumping me.

      Delete
    23. That doesn't sound like monica.

      Delete
    24. So what? I care none about either of them. He was good in bed, that's all.

      Delete
    25. A great wife, are you still lying to yourself? What's so great about a wife that dreams about fucking every cute guy she sees and and probably cheated on him while he believes you're being faithful?

      Delete
    26. What's so great about a wife that cares none about how her husband feels?

      Delete
  44. (yawn.. stretch. let's try this again. he he)

    Monica? Oh, MAAAAHNEEEKHAAAA?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Monica, perhaps you should consider 'Stella' for your next name change.
      It would be very cute indeed.

      Delete
    2. He he... "STELLLLLLAAAAAAA!"

      Delete
    3. Let's try it one more time. Put some real feeling into it.

      Delete
  45. I didn't care about my son nor my mother, I care only about myself. Your insults won't work you little abused bitch.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Lick my cunt and call me mommy, you fucking nutcase. Do it just the way your mother taught you and maybe I will accept that apology you owe me.

      Delete
  46. Monica, I have a something for you if you could slow your tirade a bit.

    ReplyDelete
  47. "What is this Wonka, some sort of Fun House?"

    "Why? Are you having fun?"

    To think There are some here who think I am but just another one of your alternate rambling personas, Monica.

    ReplyDelete

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