Tuesday, October 8, 2013

How sociopath target their "victims"

It turns out that sociopaths really do have an uncanny ability for spotting susceptible victims, as suggested in a study described by a Psychology Today writer:
In a study by Wheeler, Book and Costello of Brock University, individuals who self reported more traits associated with psychopathy were more apt to correctly identify individuals with a history of victimization. In the study, male student participants examined video tapes of twelve individuals walking from behind and rated the ease at which each could be mugged. The men also completed the Self-Report Psychopathy Scale: Version III (Paulhus, Hemphill, & Hare, in press) which measures interpersonal and affective traits associated with psychopathy as well as intra-personal instability and antisocial traits. Finally, they were asked to provide verbal rational for their ratings. Overall results confirmed a strong positive correlation between psychopathy scores and accuracy of victim identification. This means that individuals that score higher for psycopathy are better at selecting victims.
The study is also featured in this video clip from I, Psychopath.

I think sociopath do tend to go for a particular type of victim, or at least a certain susceptibility to their "charms." I wrote about this a little here. A typical target would be someone the sociopath feels like he can dominate, or where he can tell there is some wound, some "damage" that he can stick his finger in and play with. Being with damaged people is good for socios in two ways: (1) the playing, and (2) the damaged person expects other people to be damaged as well, so socios don't have to do as good a job of keeping up appearances, i.e. can be more of their unapologetic selves.

But that begs the question: how do sociopaths know who is damaged, or at least so quickly and accurately? As one of my readers said "I put up armor but most sociopaths can see right through it."

It reminds me of a trip I made to New Zealand. New Zealand has been an isolated island so long that it traditionally had no mammals, except for bats. Instead, it had a extremely diverse ecosystem of birds. These birds had perfected "defenses" against the other birds in their ecosystems and had survived for millions of years that way. I was told that one of the natural defenses of the birds was to remain perfectly still, which made them almost impossible to spot by the predator birds flying high overhead. Or course this tactic made them (almost literally) sitting ducks when man brought rats with them to the island.

Simply put, we all have "defenses" to disguise our weaknesses, whether wearing clothes, cosmetics, compensating with a flashy car, acquiring meaningless degrees and titles, etc. Most people construct their defenses with the average person in mind -- your boss, your spouse, your kids, your colleagues, your friends and family. A defense that may work swimmingly with most people may work not at all with a sociopath. Asking a sociopath how he is able to see through these devices is sort of like asking a rat how he is able to see through the facade of a bird remaining perfectly still.

83 comments:

  1. This is true for anyone that is perceptive and observant. Not just sociopaths. Not that you said that this ability to spot certain types of people is exclusive to sociopaths.

    If you have a fair amount of life experience and can understand body language pretty well, the world can be your oyster.

    I've always been very very good at sizing people up within about a minute of meeting someone. Or even just by looking at them.

    It's only recently that I have realized that it is okay to use this to my advantage, instead of just using this talent to figure out who to avoid, who is lame, who is full of shit, and who is cool.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Perhaps you are a sociopath.

      Delete
    2. Or she is someone that has trained her perception beyond a simple, fast attribution of a signifier to things and people.

      Since Medusa mentions it below. Intuition seems to be the ability to delve below the linear rational type of thinking. An ability to connect with a larger awareness that registers much more complex details. All of which send their own type of messages.

      Hmm? Just now something else enters my mind. Ever turned around to realize someone is watching you. How did it register? Did it enter your consciousness before you turned your back but your attention was focussed on something else? But it still left a trace on your mind. You don't have eyes on your back after all. Or is there something else?

      Delete
    3. People have always jumped to tell me that I'm "judgmental" when I explain that I can often, quickly size people up, through the modes you mention.

      Delete
    4. Many people claim they quickly can "size people up". That's why it is not wise to communicate your perceptions. Why should you? To be able to say: I told you so? Vain pleasure. Much more funny and enjoyable to watch the developments slowly. Weakness is a wide field. My biggest joys were connected with seeing self-deluded vainness coupled with a weak spot exploited by a con artist. Always the people ignored signals. They all should have known better.

      How do you differentiate between someone that judges based on superficial markers? Someone prejudiced? And someone with a good perception?

      Your perception ultimately only matters for your own decisions. We all play theatre some times. I can be absolutely charming with people I instinctively detest. Maybe especially with them. I will never allow them to manipulate me though.

      But I cannot deny I occasionally enjoyed to watch someone slowly getting trapped. Not the obvious weak ones, mind you, the supposedly strong ones. Everyone has his weak spots and it shows in words and actions. Especially if they are trying to deceive too, attracts a specific type of people. That are the stories that are especially funny to watch.

      I have two specific stories in mind. There are no general rules. Weakness and strength are relative.

      Delete
    5. It is most rewarding to trap a predator. They understand boxing and poker. The type I am talking about is the type A "hammer". To them everything is a nail. They think they are boxing or playing poker while the game they will ultimately loose is chess. Their fundamental flaw is they are so blinded by their need to feel superior that if you are careful and only show the card you want them to see, you can easily underestimate you. Patience is the key. This guy only knows how to push his way through and manipulate people. What I am realizing is he sees me as an opponent to be beaten. He has no idea of the game he is actually playing. Checkmate will come in about 3 moves before he even knows the game he's in.

      Delete
  2. Also, it took me a while to trust my perceptions. Now I know they are pretty spot on.

    What I find the most interesting is that the phenomenon described is what some would call "intuition".

    ReplyDelete
  3. Thats why theres camouflage for predators to use as well as for prey. The individuals who are the easiest victims don't know how to camouflage and when they do they only wear the same camouflage over and over again without any evolutionary aspect to it.

    I have learned that it's never a good idea to accept a way of doing things which is static. You have to always choose the best way of doing something, and you have to have some type of authenticity about what you do.

    If a person is obviously fake, or obviously trying to impress someone, this is an example of a person overcompensating. So the camouflage that you do wear has to be tailored both to fit you, and to fit the situation or environment.

    Sitting still as in the example is what I equate to being a static person. This type of person thinks that just by hiding that they can survive, the thinking goes

    "Maybe if I just don't say anything... the predators wont hear me."

    "Maybe if I just don't touch anything... the predators wont feel me."

    "Maybe if I just close my eyes... the predators wont see me."

    "Maybe if I just don't move... the predators wont notice me."

    This line of thinking never works because it's the play dead strategy. It works in one environment or situation, but if the situation changes the thinking has to change along with it and the majority of victims that I see are unable to adapt their thinking to their specific situations.

    They were taught this is the way to do it, this is how the world is, this is how people are, which usually equates to them believing people are just like them, then they meet a sociopath and get a reality check and from here there are only two types, the type that evolves or adapts to the reality check that not everyone is like them, and the type that continues on thinking everyone is like them and that sociopaths can be saved by God or by them or they blame themselves for it and internalize everything so that they feel like a victim and worthless and of course the next sociopath will come along and see the wounds.

    Adapt to the environment or die.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. So true! Not all brains work the same way. I work with children who have learning differences so I see proof of this every day. Personally, I think sociopaths are so gifted at reading people that it makes people seem like toys to them. They enjoy playing with people's heads much the same way an individual who is gifted in math enjoys playing with numbers. And just as a math genius gets bored solving the same mundane math problems over and over again, a sociopath gets bored dealing with same mundane people day and day out. Both the math genius and the "sociopath" likely have deficits somewhere else in the brain because that is usually the price to pay for being brilliant in one area. I am not excusing cruelty because I don't believe all "sociopaths" intend to cause harm although some obviously do. Considering the fact that a lack of compassion/empathy are the deficits that go hand in hand with the gift of reading people then the temptation to do emotional harm is certainly there in most cases.

      Delete
  4. Adapt to the environment or die.

    lol, harsh.

    ReplyDelete
  5. "They were taught this is the way to do it, this is how the world is, this is how people are, which usually equates to them believing people are just like them, then they meet a sociopath and get a reality check and from here there are only two types, the type that evolves or adapts to the reality check that not everyone is like them, and the type that continues on thinking everyone is like them and that sociopaths can be saved by God or by them or they blame themselves for it and internalize everything so that they feel like a victim and worthless and of course the next sociopath will come along and see the wounds."

    Bang...on the money, I've enjoyed the adaptation and the games with a few sociopaths- they are all more isolated for the pleasure.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Do I need to become a soldier? Maybe that's my problem. I cannot accept the idea that sociopaths are more easily adapted to reality than I am. Empaths are not just a bunch of over emotional idiots that have no ability to react appropriately. We just like to love people..lol.

    Adapt or die? You’re just referring to relationships with sociopaths right? omg! Even if I try to adapt…I’m out. I might be taking in your comment the wrong way????

    Like Medusa, I have had to use people skills to manage situations and those skills come from experience. No one, not my friend No One, can teach me these things.

    Grace

    ReplyDelete
  7. Grace: As an empath, I think it is fair to say that most of us are emotionally driven morons. Look at the number of religious people out there. I think House said it best, "If rational arguments worked on religious people, there would be no religious people." Then you've got other large emotionally driven groups such as the democrats, the republicans, MADD, feminists, socialists, communists, PETA, people that play the lottery, etc. There are some empaths like myself that choose to work logically instead of emotionally, but we are very rare. More rare than sociopaths I would dare say.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Mr. M.E.

    you post so fast, you could be a piano player!

    And ... noticed that a few are out of your hit list on the right menu:
    - obsessive-compulsive;
    - bipolar disorder;
    - misanthropy;
    - self-esteem;
    - Anosognosia;
    - etc.

    Any reason why so, or just not interesting enough?

    I like your blog, but somehow on comments side seems there's this - is cool to act socio - trend.

    Anyways, back on the subject "how does a socio can spot a victim?". My opinion, and only that, ever seen a cat playing?

    Cats play with about everything - shoes, cotton balls, keys, dead animals, live animals,and so on.

    Playing is fun and grants skill. While playing and exploring, cats learn what is a prey and not. Just because a prey to a cat can be dinner, doesn't mean that prey can't outrun the cat or try to defend itself in some other way.

    Socios can be much as cats, learning to spot victims while playing, till one day they decide to eat them, or get bored from them, or both.

    The rule is that there is a 0.00000000000001% it could be a promissing exception to the rule. And the cat goes "nice, let's play and find out".

    ReplyDelete
  9. Then the whole internet would be on here! Once in a while M.E. does put other such topics on here.

    Grace

    ReplyDelete
  10. Jack,

    For me, it's more with intimate relationships that I would say my intelligence goes out the window. I think I'm rational about religion..if I could say that:)

    Grace

    ReplyDelete
  11. Anonymous: Look at what the blog is about, and then try and deduce what type of people will be here.

    Grace: No, you can't lol. I agree that people are even less rational when it comes to intimate relationships (and often with relationships that aren't intimate), but even so people tend to be very irrational in daily life.

    ReplyDelete
  12. I see. Well that sucks:(



    Grace

    ReplyDelete
  13. "Maybe if I just don't say anything... the predators wont hear me."

    "Maybe if I just don't touch anything... the predators wont feel me."

    "Maybe if I just close my eyes... the predators wont see me."

    "Maybe if I just don't move... the predators wont notice me."

    I wonder how many children thought the above, as they were been abused by their parent/parents.
    It is also well known that a child who grows up with abuse, becomes an abuser.
    Seems a lot of abusers label themselves Sociopaths and use it as an excuse for their behaviour.
    Does an abuser ever take a good look at themselves and their family? Maybe they just grew up to be what their abusers always said they were.
    Gee, I wonder if abusers were ever told to stop acting like a victim when they were been abused.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Anonymous above: "It is also well known that a child who grows up with abuse, becomes an abuser." This is untrue. This is a common belief, but it is not well-supported. This study has a fairly good view of the subject. Clearly the incidence is higher, but to suggest that an abusive childhood is a predictor of abusive behavior (or the opposite, for that matter) is pop psychology at best.

    ReplyDelete
  15. @Anonymous

    You don't have to be either an abuser or a victim. What you have to be is yourself. If you value yourself then you'll know that sometimes to protect yourself you have to abuse other people. It's not a choice you make where you decide to become an abuser, it's just the world we live in does not allow for angels, we either learn how to pick our battles and win certain fights, or we lose, and lose, and lose, until the day we die.

    Nobody is going to save you. Jesus is not going to return to rescue you from abuse. Your sins will not be forgiven. If you want to change your life you have to be willing to do whatever it takes. The willingness to do whatever it takes leads to a fighters mentality, not an abuser mentality. A fighter will abuse an opponent in a fight for survival, just as a bunch of ants should be expected to defend their hill from the cat, the mouse, or anything else that decides to try to disrupt their survival.

    Life is about survival. Right and wrong is about what allows you to survive. It's as simple as that. You like to survive and be happy? So do I. So we can work together or we can fight.

    ReplyDelete
  16. @Anonymous p2

    And thats all I'm trying to show. I'm showing the fighters mentality as opposed to the victims mentality. The source of the fighters mentality is "I'm not going to live my life like this, I'm not going to take this treatment, I'm going to fight to improve my life or die trying"

    Then you have the victims mentality which I think comes from either a place of credulousness or impetuousness. The individual wants to do what feels good regardless of the result. It feels good not to have to fight, unfortunately if you never never fight you don't survive. Look at nature and you see that every living thing has to struggle to maintain it's existence against competition from other living things.

    This isn't about sociopath or empath. If you are a survivalist it does not have anything to do with whether or not you can feel empty for victims. You want to survive? You don't want to be the victim? Sometimes you have to make someone else a victim to avoid being the victim yourself. The world is not black and white where you have the option to not hurt anyone.

    Finally I want to say that there isn't anyone protecting anyone here except yourselves. The naive belief that other people are protecting you, or that other people wouldn't do that, no there is nobody protecting you but your own ability to be rational, and there is nothing that another person wouldn't do if the situation were right so you have to take into consideration that anything a person can do, they would do, and adjust your thinking accordingly.

    All options are always on the table unless that individual loves you and agrees to protect you or not do certain things. If you don't understand that people will do anything to get what they want, and that people only value each other as a means to an end, then you won't understand anything I'm saying and I'll probably seem like a sociopath or an abuser.

    If you look at it in the context of game theory, the context of winning the game while taking the least amount of punishment, then you'll understand my thinking.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Personally I think all abusers and victims should grow up and take a good look at themselves, and how pathetic they all behave.

    So called Sociopaths bragging about their BS, Victims whinging about their BS.
    It's just a BS game of tit for tat for IDIOTS!

    ReplyDelete
  18. As much as I agree with you, Savagelight, the sad fact is that game theory only (fully) applies to real life when all the players are rational. As I'm sure you know, this is not the case. Then again, I take the opportunity to win more than my share by being rational, even among irrational players. But on occasion, the winning move is to lose a little to drum out an irrational player. They'll trip themselves up more when they find no resistance where it was expected, or vice versa.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Postmodern but it does not change the fact that when you make your decisions you have to make them based on whats in the best interest of yourself. You should be rational, the only problem with game theory is it does not predict the behavior of the irrational, but thats why it's good to have empathy, empathy can help predict irrational emotional behavior, and a mixture of empathy and reason can predict a lot of behavior.

    For example if you know someone is mad you know they'll be more likely to be self destructive in their behavior similar to if they are depressed you know they are more likely to be self destructive, so you know it's important to adapt to people in such a way so that they aren't mad at you or sad because of you, that means you have to value the happiness of others from a rational perspective, it helps to keep you safe.

    Postmodern I need someone to disagree with my perspective. So please offer an alternative and play devils advocate, what would be the polar opposite of the rational perspective?

    ReplyDelete
  20. How can you make a sociopath stay away?

    ReplyDelete
  21. Anyone ever been treated like they are the Sociopath, by a sociopath?

    ReplyDelete
  22. @Savagelight: The opposite of the rational perspective is the random opponent. Under no circumstances will a truly random opponent make the same move under the same initial conditions by anything but happenstance, over infinite iterations of the game.

    Between that and the rational player is the irrational opponent. Consider the irrational opponent as a player with the rational player's perfect knowledge, but with the addition of a skewed perspective. Rather than always choosing the dominant strategy based on rules, the irrational opponent exists in the metagame. That is, each iteration of the game affects their subsequent moves in ultimately unpredictable (and generally harmful to both parties) ways, with their motives existing outside the confines of the game.

    While a perfectly rational player has no concept of fault or need for revenge (not to say counterattack is out of the question, I simply mean revenge as a motive), the irrational opponent will likely feel "betrayed" and act without fully analyzing the current state. Even if the state is analyzed in full, an irrational opponent may act in a manner not in their own best interest in the hopes of striking back at the player.

    Emotional behavior is not, by nature, irrational. I am certainly capable of rage, ecstasy, etc. However, I do not allow these factors to taint my deliberations. If nothing else, they are tools to unbalance an opponent. Calculated displays of emotion, real or not, are powerful manipulators. I gain a thrill, certainly, from besting others, but I enjoy it privately. Perhaps I will celebrate with my comrades when the game has concluded, or perhaps I will simply enjoy the quiet knowledge that I have been victorious.

    The most important thing, of course, is that the Great Game has infinite iterations and no real metagame. Contrived metagame (good/evil, "purpose", etc.), naturally, but no really applicable one. When dealing with irrational opponents out in the world, the best strategy is to direct them to a purpose more in line with your own plans. And, I suppose, keep hoping that a random opponent is an impossibility.

    ReplyDelete
  23. I will disagree with you. I would take the insight of a sociopath over empathy any day of the year, when predicting human behaviour. The polar opposite of a rational perspective is irrelevant. Its the norm. Irrational.
    Irrational people are nothing close to being unpredictable. They wear their emotions on their sleaves and show you every vulnerability they have. Once someone becomes irrational you own them.
    Making someone mad doesn't make them irrational. You have to make them hate. That's your foot in the door to completely make them destroy themself and anyone you direct his/her hate towards. They're crash dumbies.
    Love and hate are weapons. To keep someone happy all the time is to make them take you for granted. To make someone hate you all the time is to make yourself a mortal enemy, which can be costly.
    People feel a wide range of emotions. The stronger people feel that emotion the easier it is to manipulate them. Adapting is knowing when to switch it up, according to what move you predict that person will make.
    Rational people in general is a exception not a rule. That's why the game exists.
    As far as religion goes it makes sense to believe in it if you are irrational. You get to go to a place where all the good righteous martyrs, victims, whores, and the downtrodden become kings and queens. The wicked like myself will burn for eternity. For me it would make more sense to believe in nothing. Why would I want forgiveness? Why would I give money? Why would I believe in anything that has me condemned to hell for eternity? Its against my self interest.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Grace said: “I cannot accept the idea that sociopaths are more easily adapted to reality than I am. Empaths are not just a bunch of over emotional idiots that have no ability to react appropriately.”

    Its not that sociopathic people can better in tune with reality then everyone else, nor is it that the average person is an idiot because they feel…it’s because sociopathic people aren’t blinded by the emotional shit that others are, so their view is less clouded and they become, by default, better at seeing a potential angle in any given situation. They aren’t beset by the static storm of mixed feelings because they tune it out fairly easy…unlike the typical person.

    UKan said. “Make them bored.”

    This is the probably one of the truest things in the world.

    ReplyDelete
  25. To be clear, UKan, I didn't mean to suggest that the decisions of irrational people are especially unpredictable, rather that the effect of each iteration on their decision making process is (but now that I read it again, I see my own ambiguity). I meant to convey a more internal perspective over the external one that evidently came through.

    I generally agree with you, though I will say I prefer fear over hatred. Fear keeps opponents cowed, but rage drives them if they get their wits about them. It's not enough to own. You must consume.

    ReplyDelete
  26. I didn't disagree with you. I disagreed with savage. We posted at the same time. I agree with everything you said, actually.
    Prolonged fear develops hatred. There's nothing more fun than having someone who hates you. Hate is like love where its blinding. A blind opponent is always preferable.

    ReplyDelete
  27. I've never equated love and hate like that before. It's an intriguing analysis, though. Definitely with you on the usefulness of the blind, of course.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Its not that sociopathic people can better in tune with reality then everyone else, nor is it that the average person is an idiot because they feel…it’s because sociopathic people aren’t blinded by the emotional shit that others are, so their view is less clouded and they become, by default, better at seeing a potential angle in any given situation.

    I don't think "blinded" is quite the accurate term. The empath and the sociopath just have different ends. Each sees the "other" as weak because of this. Keep this in mind.

    Some might see emotion and empathy as weaknesses, but for an empath, the thrill of experiencing them can be equated with the sociopath's thrill of exploiting those "weaknesses".

    They are harder than the hardest street drugs. This is the thrill that the sociopaths miss out on. Pain, sorrow, despair, beauty, art. Generally in that order.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Jack - "Anonymous: Look at what the blog is about, and then try and deduce what type of people will be here."

    People that think they have traits they could use to label themselves as sociopaths. Most aren't, so sorry! Go get another label, that one is full.

    Having those traits, and having them in a pathological level are not the same cup of tea. Get over it! This is one of the things money won't get you.

    When doing that trait test, reading "lack of remorse" - imagine your best at lacking remorse, the true best you can. And that's not it, is that point that you can no longer have imagination to take it to the next level. After, do the same to every other trait.

    But there has to be something wrong with people that wish they were sociopaths. And here is the bullseye - maybe some people are ready to take themselves as socio's but not as anything else.

    This is the kind of people I think hangs around here, in very general alineas, and they are only bringing more fuss to a matter that is allready hard to deal with or understand even from a MD's skills.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Anonymous what's your point? You think you're the first anonymous poster who popped in to show how great he is by trying to show everyone how unsociopathic they are? Its trite and it never works. Go back every two posts in the comment section and you will see what you've wrote here written multiple times. We're here to be entertained so make your first impression more impressive. Show us how smart you are.

    ReplyDelete
  31. By the way medusa, you can keep the sorrow, guilt, despair and pain. I can sacrafice art and beauty if it saves me from such a life. Those are thrills I can live without.

    ReplyDelete
  32. I don't want to entertain you, I want to despair you.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Then try harder. You're no fun. Or maybe give yourself a name instead of playing smug out in anonymity. Also, "despair" is an intransitive verb. The correct usage would be "I want to cause you to despair." Unless you're trying to say that you'd like to lose hope for UKan, in which case you should add a "for" before "you."

    And, for the sake of argument, what gives you so much more insight than the rest of us that you can make such broad proclamations as you did above without the slightest ounce of support?

    ReplyDelete
  34. Anonymous this entire article is about you.
    The minute you decided to type something in the comment box it became about entertaining me. The grown ups in here discuss grown up stuff. People like you are here for us to laugh at.

    ReplyDelete
  35. I never said I had more insight than the rest of you. My point of view needs no support, it is after all, the way I see it.

    Anonymous still

    ReplyDelete
  36. UKan laugh all you want, it makes no difference to me.

    ReplyDelete
  37. I want you to tell me how bipolar disorder is from your perspective. Give me a play by play of your opinions on the state of your life in your manic phase, and then again on your depression.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Maybe later. I'm bored and entertaining you shouldn't be left to you and you alone...try checkers, I think that game would suit you.

    ReplyDelete
  39. For the record...I'm not the anonymous you think I am. Bye!

    ReplyDelete
  40. You would think so from being in a conversation with you. I feel dumber everytime I read your comments. I'm still waiting for you to have a point, or opinion.

    ReplyDelete
  41. By the way medusa, you can keep the sorrow, guilt, despair and pain. I can sacrafice art and beauty if it saves me from such a life. Those are thrills I can live without.

    Fair enough. Empaths would say the same about you, of course. "You keep your power, charms, etc. if it saves me from such a life."

    Just pointing out that the balance is not so skewed as some like to think.

    ReplyDelete
  42. I do not understand the point of posting anonymously. You could just post as "asdf" or some shit, why is that so fucking hard?

    My point of view needs no support, it is after all, the way I see it.

    Not good enough. Try again.

    ReplyDelete
  43. I don't get the point of posting anonymously. You could just post as "asdf" or some shit, and you don't even have to enter an email address or anything. Why is that so fucking hard?

    My point of view needs no support, it is after all, the way I see it.

    Not good enough. Try again.

    ReplyDelete
  44. Savagelight said:
    "Finally I want to say that there isn't anyone protecting anyone here except yourselves. The naive belief that other people are protecting you, or that other people wouldn't do that, no there is nobody protecting you but your own ability"

    This hits a nerve in me. I didn't even read the rest of it...I just started to cry. Hmmm. What does this mean? I mean I know what it means but I don't know why I reacted this way.

    Grace

    ReplyDelete
  45. Grace, maybe the nerve it struck was fear of abandonment. A book I read says that abandonment is a primal fear; a fear that is universal to the human experience. As infants, maintaining attachment to the primary caretaker is necessary for survival. Infants lay screaming in their cribs, terrified that when the mother leaves the room, she is never coming back. Abandonment is a fear that we will be left alone forever with no one to protect us or see to our most urgent needs. The books says this primal fear is one we carry into adulthood because it's hardwired in our brains.

    ReplyDelete
  46. ^Really? I have heard about this theory of abandonment. I don't really believe it applies to me (or people like me?). At least, I don't think it does.

    What the hell Grace, I'll throw my theory in. Maybe the tears were grown up you acknowledging something that you have been denying for a long time: that you really are as alone as you fear you are. I'm talking existentially aloneness.

    ReplyDelete
  47. Existential Aloneness was something else I was going to mention, Daniel. I think what conquers this fear of abandonment is when you realize that you have the ability to parent yourself; to be all things to yoursel;, because we are all existentially alone.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Bizarre, I suppose ME does intervene in the comments. My post deleted twice. Interesting.

    Anyhow, Grace, I have nothing to add to Daniel or Aerianne except to say that you are brave to have admitted this here.

    ReplyDelete
  49. "For the record...I'm not the anonymous you think I am. Bye!

    September 30, 2010 4:21 AM"

    You were so great!! You were amazing! I'm laughing so hard my belly aches. Well played!!Cheers to you Anonymous still :)

    ReplyDelete
  50. To the REAL Anonymous UKan was talking to—I wasn't trying to play along with you.

    In fact, I was trying to further prove a point made by both UKan and Post Socio, which was that the anonymous comments don't get taken seriously here since the regular commenters/spectators normally only pay attention to the things actual people say (meaning those who have names that they can associate a point of view with it), so any real conversation between you and one of them, like UKan for example, is invalid because you’re basically nobody until you claim to be somebody on here.

    UKan—I meant no disrespect by this, but I actually figured, and counted on, you going into one of your fluid rants to say this perfectly yet harshly.

    ReplyDelete
  51. 3rd time's a charm...

    I don't get the point of posting anonymously. It's not like you even have to use an email address to post with a name.

    If this comment gets deleted, then I am going to assume that ME is trolling his own blog.

    ReplyDelete
  52. well, hello The Sobriquet aka anonymous, nice to see you again - english is not my mother language so I had to look for a translator for "Sobriquet" and you never disappoint me. I was hoping for that turn tide, in your own polite manners. Not arrogant or pretensious. As so I would like to thank postmodernsociopath for explaining english (I like to learn).


    Before I bid farewell, and others ask Mr. M.E. to moderate comments or remove anonymous option, I would like to add the following. Even if anonymous I still exist in a physical way. Not all animals need an ID to take an existence for granted. A tree doesn't need a serial number to be a tree. A bird doesn't need a name to be a bird. We exist, therefore we are.

    Just because something or someone without a name doesn't fit confortably in a carefully catalogued world, they still will be part of that same world.

    Denying that simple truth is a self-inflicted blindness.

    The most interesting subject I learned in here was an idea I had years ago, as I asked myself if all the pathological personalities weren't simply part of a more diverse world, more notorious nowadays since the increasing of human population. I was glad to see the word neurodiversity for the first time.

    Mr. M.E. is doing a good job enlightening for sociopathy and knowing himself, and people like me are part of those that everyday may encounter or not a sociopath, and build an opinion about.

    I have my opinion about sociopathy now, and also a more complete one, because it also includes reactions from the posters here.

    A name, a face, a species, a colour - Il Messaggero non è importante, the message is...or should.


    Salutations.

    ReplyDelete
  53. Oh, I see. You are trying to make a "deep" and "meta" point.

    Retroactively convenient.

    Most of us here are not dumb, my dear.

    ReplyDelete
  54. @Postmodern

    "Suppose you're on a game show, and you're given the choice of three doors. Behind one door is a car, behind the others, goats. You pick a door, say #1, and the host, who knows what's behind the doors, opens another door, say #3, which has a goat. He says to you, "Do you want to pick door #2?" Is it to your advantage to switch your choice of doors?"

    The solution to this problem is that it's rational to choose the doors randomly rather than in sequence because you know that the oppoennt(the host) is not going to help you win. You have a higher chance of beating this opponent if you don't choose door #2. So the logical solution is to choose any door but #2.

    Fortunately this can be mapped into game theory as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_problem

    That being said you have a point about the broken rhythm aspect of the live opponent. It will confuse the rational opponent unless the rational opponent can figure out the basic underlying foundation of the seemingly random behavior.

    ReplyDelete
  55. Sometimes I forget I'm alone. I get caught up in the world around me. Then when things slow down, as they do during the course of a day, there I am with just my thoughts then they change into feelings and so on. I think you guys are right. Maybe I made some sense of those thoughts. Even though I don't like it, it is what it is and I just have to accept this without the fear or the notion of abandonment. How can I do that though? lol. Maybe I’ll go see a psychic reader!!:) Yeah..then I’ll be crying I wasted a hundred bucks.

    Grace

    ReplyDelete
  56. Grace, you might want to read the book I referred to. It's called, The Journey From Abandonment To Healing; by Susan Anderson. It was pretty insightful. It will help you recognize events from your early life that may have been traumatic and help you understand what happens to you when something triggers feelings of abandonment in your current life. It walks you through dealing with these issues and learning to give yourself what you need.

    ReplyDelete
  57. Put some more hair on that pic an it would look like a Neanderathal.
    Maybe it's not really a victim they are looking for, just one of their kind who is less evolved.

    ReplyDelete
  58. @Savagelight: From a purely probabilistic perspective, it is most advantageous to switch doors. I'm familiar with the Monty Hall problem, and as I'm sure your reading suggests, switching doors doubles the probability of choosing the winning door. Assume that you chose door #1. It's trivial to construct a table giving the relative probabilities of staying versus switching based on the distribution of cars to goats. Given the host's rules (that he always opens a goat door) and that you've already chosen door #1, you have a win probability of 1/3 if you stay with door #1, but if you switch to the other available door, this results in a win probability of 2/3. This is counterintuitive, but probabilistically sound. Given that situation, I will always switch unless I have some evidence to convince me to stay.

    As for the second part, I wouldn't necessarily say that the behavior itself is unpredictable (humans being creatures of habit), but I would definitely say that the underlying motives are. That said, if you have a sufficiently detailed mental library of archetypical motivation patterns, even this apparent problem can be diminished, if not eliminated altogether.

    ReplyDelete
  59. Thanks Aerianne. I will look into it. Going to the bookstore anyway to study. Sometimes I think self help is for OTHER people. I might be wrong..lol.

    Grace

    ReplyDelete
  60. Joseph Fritzl (LOL just kidding)October 1, 2010 at 3:09 PM

    I kind of feel that this post gives this impression that all psychopaths are some sort of genius masterminds. It's a much more believable idea that psychopaths are good at looking for victims because they've had a lifetime of doing so rather than there bieng any sort of biological influence.

    ReplyDelete
  61. Having had the experience of being abused by a sociopathic builder, sociopathic loans clerk and sociopathic bully of a boss at the same time that I was expecting twins the sociopath is definitely not a mastermind. In my view they are opportunists and detached from positive emotional connection with the victim for some reason. This can be because of envy (loans clerk) or bad character (builder - thug and swindler as well)or unresolved family history (boss whose father was abusive alcoholic). All of these people through their contact with myself and my husband caused financial hardship, damage and destruction of property and harm to my children. I could not avoid giving up work (PhD Lecturer)to ensure my children were cared for properly to hopefully avoid any long term problems and to ensure our home was properly finished and inspected etc. I think many sociopaths probably end up in jail but I have found that legislation does not completely protect members of the community and so there is always a risk to the general public of being hurt by these people and not being able to do much about it. I think this is a major incentive for them to continue. I think they don't care about the trail of destruction until they are forced to e.g. jail etc. I even went to the local member of parliament to see what could be done and I was given the "another builder story" line. Sociopathic behaviour seems to be tolerated in our community. I do not think this to be a good thing. Whilst I do not believe in "beating people up" for their imperfections etc. (if it is a case of sociopaths have something to learn and therefore may be rehabilitated) I do believe that victims should always be compensated for the damage that these people do. I have the impression that society at present does not respect victims and appreciate the wrongful loss that bad people cause.

    ReplyDelete
  62. please any women who comes in contact with Arbes Mackey please read and educate yourselves about sociopaths...YOU ARE ONE OF HIS MANY VICTOMES

    ReplyDelete
  63. I had a Sociopath in my life conning me for Ten years. This Sociopath was a bully,lier,jealous and envous person as well. I believed at the time, was a friend and co worker. He even said this meny times to me over the years. Now I know why, just to keep me around intell he was done with me. He just manipulated me from the day he met me. He would say or do things leaving me to hold the bag. I would say at times I may have played a part but he did much worse. He set me up with meny down falls over the Ten years. I did't even notice it was so slow. I gave him my love, trust. I razed his kids, I was their when they were born. You see he hated himself and wanted to dump all the hard fealings he had about himself on to me. Once that was done, he had a co-worker push me out of employment. For now this has been short, but I will write at another time. One thing is I have read a great deal a learned. Sociopath are not made. Sociopaths are born this is a fact. And they will do anything to get what they want from you.

    ReplyDelete
  64. After three years from the "break-up" with the sociopath, I am at a point (finally!) where I don't care what happens to him, and I can see him and his behavior clearly. So it took this long to understand and feel what he probably felt for me. I now understand the need to play with someone for entertainment. But I no longer need or desire his company, no longer feel sad or hurt for what he did, no longer feel ashamed or embarrassed by what I did, and no longer want vindication. I honestly just don't care. But I am so surprised at how long it took. And now I have the chance to mess with him but I don'want to do this. I want to be productive instead. I want to wash my hands of the whole thing. Don't sociopaths eventually get bored with their manipulations? Doesn't it get old - this continual problem causing?

    ReplyDelete
  65. My first most important sign i look for in a sociopath is the bipolar.this bipolar im talking about is the charm and then the monster both in its extreme. The monster stage is my red flag because their reasoning for that behavior is never ever rational. The act never fit their excuses because the excuses always lies and contradictions. As soon as i see that im out like flash without asking them questions of any interest of why when and whats. See ya u crazy S.O.B! i know this isnt bipolar but the two personalities is the same extremes.

    ReplyDelete
  66. So the victim is picked because they've been a victim? I'd have thought intelligent sociopaths would look for more of a challenge. Elsewhere I've read in this blog that goodness and talent, or having some characteristic that causes envy, makes a good victim. Which is it?

    ReplyDelete
  67. People who have been victims of sexual abuse do give out subtle
    signals.
    I knew a sexually abused boy who was raised in many foster homes.
    He was a 'tough" person who was determined to improve his lot in
    life. He suffered a mental breakdown and resided in a half way house.
    While he was using the bathroom in a shopping mall, he was attacked
    by a worker from the rehab house.
    Interestingly, he never reveled his abused past to this individual, but
    the accoster could somehow sense that the boy would be an "easy"
    victim. He was dissmissed from his job.
    "It takes one to know one" so the saying goes. Perhaps because many
    sociopaths are victims of sexual abuse, they can spot the trait in others. Homosexuals claim to have a sensory mechinism known as
    "gaydor" that helps them ferret out persons with the same proclivities.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. let's ferret out all the gays lol

      Delete
  68. Social interaction with a (stereotype) psycho is just endless "mind wrestling", they just look for "angles" to exploit, taunt or mock. Somehow I doubt theories that hollow folks keep many other hollow folks as friends, I guess few of these critters appreciate when other like minded folks try to play them like a piano. A "dear friend" of mine actually says THAT is the thing that gets him really aggressive, especially when the "player" is considered inferior to my "dear friend".

    ReplyDelete
  69. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of2HU3LGdbo

    ReplyDelete
  70. Psychos don't really 'target' as such. It's more a spray-gun effect. They try it on with all types of people all the time. The ones who don't see through them pretty quickly become din-din.

    Generally they go for those who have something they want so although they deem themselves superior, they are more-often-than-not on the back foot. They are almost always bored and therefore ultimately boring.

    ReplyDelete
  71. Sounds like what I did with every one of my girlfriends, without being conscious of what I was doing, I just did it. They were easy, so I went for them. Now I'm conscious of what I'm doing, and I think it will be much easier now. I have met the God inside. ;)

    ReplyDelete
  72. @7.28 AnonymousOctober 9, 2013 at 7:28 AM

    Psychos don't really 'target' as such. It's more a spray-gun effect. They try it on with all types of people all the time. The ones who don't see through them pretty quickly become din-din.

    Generally they go for those who have something they want so although they deem themselves superior, they are more-often-than-not on the back foot. They are almost always bored and therefore ultimately boring.

    I agree! It took me and my friends years to realise one of our ´friends´ was a sociopath, always made excuses for him. One day someone who had met him through us was talking about how he had locked himself out of his flat and had to stay at her house. Constant small dramas, people who rescued him became his new best friend, people who walked away had a lucky escape. Btw they are very good at turning on the tears, one minute need to be admired by everyone as superior, next minute the victim, offering undying friendship etc, still óurs´always threw enraged temper tantrums when he was called on being a user or in any way felt ´humiliated´ No'one´s talking about it here, but the main give away is they always need money, are parasitical and always waiting on money so and so ´owes´ them. Also never seen him in a normal relationship, always stringing men and women along as a big ego trip and using them. Everyone hates this guy now.

    ReplyDelete
  73. I was the big victim/loser & freakin hate myself for the weakness. Is there any way to get your self-respect back? Is there any attitude/actiion i could take that would earn even a nanogram of reluctant repect or admiration from socio/psychopath & his circle of influence?

    ReplyDelete
  74. Not so much to gain approval but as a stepping stone out of the muck, the sh#t he'd love for me to believe. Without a safety net, i need a way to 'fake it till i make it', Like i said...he won big. Dive in sociopaths!!!

    ReplyDelete

Join Amazon Prime - Watch Over 40,000 Movies

.

Comments are unmoderated. Blog owner is not responsible for third party content. By leaving comments on the blog, commenters give license to the blog owner to reprint attributed comments in any form.