Tuesday, October 1, 2013

Sociopath child, to teen, to adult

Based on my own personal experiences and the experiences of many others, I have come to believe that there are certain key developmental stages that most (high-functioning?) sociopaths experience when growing up. I believe these developmental experiences are much more consistent across young sociopaths than the trinity of animal torture, fire play, and bed wetting, albeit less observable by a third party.

Sociopath child tends to slip under the radar at first because all young children are self-centered and frequently perverse. He is unaware that he is different from others until about age 11 or 12. At this age, he realizes that he has missed a cognitive/emotional fork in the road somewhere along the way (age of 4-6?), a departure from the developmental path of his peers that does not manifest itself until years later. This manifestation is characterized by a short Asperger's like social awkwardness and social rejection beginning just before the age of puberty. All of sociopath child's hormonally/emotionally driven peers are acting differently, and in ways that sociopath child doesn't understand or respect. Sociopath child doesn't play their game at first, doesn't bother to try to pretend to be an idiot like them, insisting instead that they adapt to him. They do not adapt to him, but rather reject him socially as being a nonconformist "weirdo". It becomes clear to pre-teen sociopath relatively quickly (1-2 months?) that the days of effortless fitting in that he enjoyed throughout his childhood are over. The rules have changed, his survival instincts kick in, and he realizes at some level that even if he can't understand why his peers are behaving the way they do, he must learn to adapt. Specifically sociopath teen must learn how to actively pretend to be like everyone else. In terms of mask-wearing skills, pre-teen sociopath is like the smart kid who has always "naturally" done well at school, who suddenly goes to secondary school or university and realizes that he must study to get good marks. Likewise, although child sociopath "naturally" fit in with ease, pre-teen sociopath must learn people study skills. He will use these skills in monitoring his peers to discover what he is missing and to mirror these traits back to them.

Young teen sociopath eventually overcomes this little roadblock (1-2 years?) by acquiring a baseline proficiency at mimicry and manipulation. This process hardens him to the humanity of others. To accomplish his goals, he has resorted to objectifying everyone around him, seeing them either as targets, threats, or assets.

Teen sociopath gets more reckless with his manipulation exploits as he gets more comfortable with his skills. He sometimes makes mistakes, pushes people too far, makes people very angry. These moments are frequently overlooked or quickly papered over because his peers are in such developmental flux themselves. His worst moments are written off as being hormonally based or isolated incidents. As his peers mature, however, teen sociopath's tactics will begin to seem heavy handed and artificial to them. They will tire of the manipulation and will start responding negatively to his primitive skills.

As late teen sociopath begins experiencing more pushback/blowback from his increasingly riskier exploits, he will begin to see that the majority of his life consists of manipulation and mask wearing. Late teen sociopath begins to truly understand who he is only after one of his friends hates him.
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Despite his increasing social difficulties, late teen sociopath will try to ignore the warning signs that suggest that he is not just different, but damaged. This is, after all, the only way of life he has ever known. He will do anything to maintain his status quo, including going to war against anyone who would threaten it, including himself.

Self-deception will reach a fever pitch in the early twenties as he tries to convince himself that nothing is wrong with him or what he is doing. Young adult sociopath will eventually hit some form of rock bottom, however it is that he defines that to himself. If he is smart, this will be the impetus for him to do some deep "soul" searching, and come up with some other, more sustainable way of living. If he is not smart, he will keep repeating this pattern indefinitely -- cheap manipulation tricks, backlash, self-deception, return to the status quo of cheap tricks.

For the sociopaths who move beyond the cycle of self-deception, the typical age of self-awareness is early to mid twenties, although it can still happen into the early thirties.

This is what I have come to expect in the portrayal of the development of a sociopath from small child through his mid-twenties, at least in broad strokes. Again, I think these are relatively consistent experiences, at least among high-functioning sociopaths. Depending on where the sociopath is in the stage, though, they may or may not see things this way. For instance, child sociopath doesn't realize he is manipulating, pre-teen may not necessarily be able to articulate a missed "cognitive fork," etc., but I have found that sociopaths who make it out of the cycle of self-deception will more or less recognize themselves in this description. Thoughts?

218 comments:

  1. Seems a bit broad, as it applies to myself and some others I know as well, so I wouldn't say that this is exclusive to sociopaths/psychopaths.

    Then again, I'm skeptical of any definitive discrepancy between "empath" and "psycho/socio-path" to begin with.

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  3. How can you even be sure that you are or are not a sociopath?

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  4. That roughly describes my own experience. Ignorance/self deception has been a HUGE part of my learning curve, one that I am still dealing with. Well, in my defense, the self deception was not so much self deception as ignorance. I knew I was different. But the specific articulation of that difference didn’t start till I was 19.

    I would in fact say that the self deception phase didn't begin in earnest until I was able to name my emptiness at 19. That’s when I started trying to actively fill it. I didn’t know another response was possible or even necessary. I didn’t know that I had no choice. I wouldn’t really come to know that until very recently, actually. You could say that I am a late bloomer. But again in my defense, none of this was even on my radar until I educated myself once I became an adult. I grew up in a decidedly anti-intellectual environment. It never occurred to me to even look in this direction until relatively recently.

    If I hadn’t had the “wow, I sure am empty” moment, I wonder what would have become of my life. I could very easily have gone the criminal way. VERY easily. I guess it’s just one of those quirks in life.

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    1. I knew I was different from everyone else around the age of 8. I cannot be more specific unforunately. And I never made an effort to fit in unless it was doing something I enjoyed. By the time I was in junior high school I really did not fit in well and still had no interest in doing so. I was eccentric and became labelled a nerd. By the end of highschool I had been called "a piece of work" and not until recently have people accused me of being ridiculously private, not caring for anything that isn't mine and a while ago my mom asked me about an episode in my youth where she caught me torturing a crow. I'm surprised that no one managed to put the pieces together considering that I had a psychological evaluation when I was 11, had a bed wetting problem, faked an medical condition, set fires, had difficulty making friends, and even an instance at highschool where I messed around with some people and one of them called my mother to report that I was not quite right. No one ever figured me out, not even me until recently.

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  5. Yeah, Aerianne, self deception can and more often than not, does, last a lifetime. Most people live and die in that state. And I agree with you about the spectrum view. I think all personality traits can be viewed as existing along a spectrum. That makes more sense to me than either/or (false) dichotomies. Cut off points for personality traits tend to be arbitrary and unique to whoever you are talking to at any given moment.

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  6. The above comment was from me, btw.

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  7. I'm no sociopath, but I do think it's interesting that as a young lass I went through things the opposite way than ME describes.

    In grade school I tried so hard to fit in and be socially accepted, but nothing I did ever worked. As a child I thought that one's social life was the most important thing in the world, but all I ever did was fail at it. I was different from everyone else in terms of looks, personality, family, etc.

    Around 5th or 6th grade I started acting out. Getting in physical fights, freaking out during class, etc.

    I was even shunned by the teachers when it became obvious that I was sad, troubled and ostracized. They didn't know what to do with me so they would do stupid shit like make me hide under my desk when I was upset... ugh. I still want to stab the teacher that made me do that.

    Every summer before school started up again I would put myself through some sort of image and personality change in the attempt to be accepted. Never worked. Reading my childhood diary makes me cringe; I am the completely opposite person now than I was then, at least externally.

    Looking back, it seems to me that it was everyone else in my life who was a sociopath, based on the way they behaved towards me. Manipulative, no remorse, no empathy, etc.

    Right before 7th grade I said to myself, "FUCK THIS!" and I started dressing weird, I quit trying to fit in, decided trying to be popular and accepted was a complete waste of time. I decided that a social life was the least important thing. Reactionary response? Maybe. But it's who I am now.

    Nowadays everyone around me thinks I'm the coolest and hottest thing in the world, and I quietly think to myself that most of them are idiots.

    Go figure.

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    1. Since what is known about sociopath comes largely from low functioning sociopaths it may well be that the road to becoming a sociopath is wide and varied and perhaps the kinds of sociopaths are many rather than few. It's a complex disorder and not well understood.

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  8. P.S. My user name is based off of one of my several lovely childhood nicknames. "Medusa" was actually one of the kinder ones, relatively speaking.

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    1. Medusa, my best friend in high school once made a drawing for me, it was Medusa looking into her own mirror with a tear in her eye.

      Several years later he told me that he was in love with me all the time in high school. We were the rhythm and lead guitar (me) in our high school band.

      I always made a difference between male friends and sexual escapades wit one short exception. The first time I had sex with someone I only did it as protest against my father. He had started to train me really early on alcohol. A friend had suggested it to him to do that and did it with his own daughter. I had to drink something with him every night before going to bed, heavy stuff. I think it started after I came back late one night from the birthday party of a girl friend, where I found myself as the only guest. We had just moved into the town and apparently got friends as both being outsiders. She didn't speak the heavy dialect of the region either. I somehow felt obliged to not let her alone to early and yes, we somewhat forgot about time.

      Later he began to suspect me of doing exactly what--I am not sure, but it feels strongly--must have been on his own mind. After I was tired of being constantly suspected, mind you never directly, always in the form of not quite outspoken insinuations, I decided now you can have it. I do not even need a night for it. Last year I said sorry to the then boy, one of our beat group fans, I treated him like air after, as if nothing had happened.

      In any case my father caused an almost instinctive disgust with boys or men that never went away that treat me as a woman first and foremost. He didn't do this to my brother, after all. I cannot really describe it, but it is too much closeness combined with a type of hyperventilation, charmingly close attention that others around don't get.

      It feels I instinctively felt sexual relations with friends would complicate matters, they maybe would start to treat me in a way I didn't want to be treated.

      The only time I lived with someone and also had sex with him was very short and really peculiar, also a pretty late attempt. I suddenly started to have sex with a multitude somewhat at random, which of course hurt him, since of course I told him.

      In hindsight I realized I wanted to get out of the relationship only. And for whatever reason couldn't manage to do, after all it made me almost normal. I am not too interested in sex, hadn't been before and wasn't after. It is all mainly in our heads anyway it feels, including the breaking of frontiers, merging and orgasm. I experience it close to my own juvenile early adult epilepsy, which was only me after all. Some type of leaving the body experience a really short loosing of identity an explosion into sparkling space.

      What would Papa Freud say to this? ;)

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  9. do sociopaths hate people? and if so how does that manifest itself, the hatred? why would a sociopath hate someone? what would a sociopath do regarding a person that he hates? would he go as far as to plan that person's killing?

    To me, everyone around seems stupid cause of their passion for life, because of their attachment to living and will to fight for something.

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    1. I generally dislike and sometimes hate people. Over the years I've tried to understand this and I think I can break it down into a couple simple reasons. The first is stupidity. People Are Stupid. The second is likely a rejection of people because of their rejection of me, because I was the eminently creepy kid: quiet, nerdy, different, refusing to integrate. I realize this is another chicken or the egg kind of problem: if people liked me would I like them? Probably not, as my experience has shown. I only like people if they have something I want whether that's knowledge, or they entertain me, or I like being with them or looking at them or having sex with them. Mostly people are boring and I rarely feel compelled to be among them.

      There have been so many times I've wanted to kill someone, but the rage often passes quickly. Only once was I so consumed with the desire to destroy someone that I realized it was and would destroy me (my destruction simply cannot ever happen) that I moved to the other side of the country to make it as difficult as I could to destroy her (she rejected me in an intimate relationship and that's why I hated her, moreover she provided no reason for why).

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  11. I have come to realize this is exactly the faze I am in now, the early, mid twenties faze. I was recently seeing a counselor after admitting some things about myself that bothered me, and the realization of it all hit me hard. I was discharged from the military due to a personality disorder I mimiced about three years ago, and have been trying over a year to get over my ex GF. Being labeled a personality disorder that I knew deep down I wasn't only gave everyone else a reason to be biased against me. My workplacee found out, and labeled me crazy, and I was told I was no longer safe to work with, and told I had to leave (which was fine, I hated the navy). Being there made my already unusual personality even more queer. I was fighting with myself for three years, fighting with my GF who constantly cried about how I shown no emotion to her. All she ever did was upset me when she cried. My laughter was a facade to appear normal, and if I actually had that rare chance of what I figured was happiness, it onlylasted seconds after surfacing. The military was a whole other world full of different rules and regulations, and my not following them, along with my disregard for any authority was what initially caused my forced testing. I was tested for ADHD. I ignored all the obvious signs.

    While talking to the counselor, to try and get over it all, I realized my so called pain was not pain, it was anger from not being able to hurt the ex enough. I didn't get any closure, and I felt like they beat me. I was the person to call it off abruptly, but when they got a hold of my family it made me upset. I lost the control over the situation. I also admitted, after realization, that the relationship I was in was more for having a person around as entertainment, not love. I was telling them over an over again I loved them, when I knew all along it was pity and lies. My ex had BPD, as well as trichtillomania, and my persoanlity clashed with hers was the perfect chaos destruction, and fury that I lived off of for many years with other people. I realized all my faults in my personality only after the break up, it clicked suddenly. I didn't know what it was called until the counselor brought it up.

    That's when I got bored, frustrated, and just stopped going.

    I still don't understand the whole sociopath thing. It doesn't make sense to me how someone can create a personality disorder based on the ways certain people grew up. I don't see sociopathy as something evil, and heartless. To me it is more of a defense mechanism, something a child naturally went to for survival in their image of the world. Something did go wrong at one point, even if innocent, and a personality was created for protection. It is a blank feeling, to not have much concern for anyone or anything, but realizing more of what I was, personality wise, has helped me become more at peace with myself. I wanted to go through with the actual process of diagnosis, but there is no point. Being told by a proffessional that I have this type of personality wouldn't do me any good. I already know my traits, have embraced them, and just want to learn more about them, and try to control them. I guess this part of my life made me more at ease to know that I am not a monster, I just have a different personality. My impulses and random urges are still rampant, but not nearly as deadly as they used to be. I have reached a point in too much energy, and not knowing what to do with it. My urges to just act out have been getting the best of me....but again, I try, though not that hard, to use the energy and needs of other things.

    If more can fill me in on sociopathy I would be delighted. All I ever get is negativity, but it doesn't feel negative...

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  12. To me, everyone around seems stupid cause of their passion for life, because of their attachment to living and will to fight for something.

    I feel the exact same way. Though I do try to get past thinking of them as stupid in the attempt to understand them. Mostly out of curiosity. Sometimes I try to bring those qualities out in myself, but they just aren't there.

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  13. This was me in HS. I watched, and didn't understand why so many people went out of their way to fit in. Girls and all the makeup, the trendy school dances, the need to constantly be around people, and live "life to the fullest". I never understood. And when I voiced my opinions to the very few that listened, they saw me as cynical. I too tried to feel for life, going to clubs, drinking, socializing, dancing, anything to ge this, "joy" that I see others experience. It's just not there. It's not me. The pretending gets annoying at times. When I want something it's just part of my routine, but to pretend just to feel like I am living? Why? I am living, even if it isn't what is considered "normal".

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    1. I disagree. People are not interested in living life to the fullest, rather they are not living. They are trying to fit in, trying not to appear too different. They're slaves to what they perceive are peer expectations. Every moment of their lives is restricted by the peer group. They're slaves. I never wanted to fit into this and have intellectually thrived by remaining outside. I even used to think that I thrived emotionally as well, that is, by avoiding all the stress and bullshit in their lives, their foolish games and conventions and rituals. People seem extraordinarily primitive in their behaviour when I compare them to myself.

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  15. "I'm not so sure that this "joy" that others seem to be expressing through their drive to be constantly connecting and socializing is authentic. I think a lot of people are driven to pursue joy in these ways because of an emptiness they fear experiencing."

    That makes a whole lot more sense to me. This is the above anonymous poster.

    So in fear of experiancing emptiness they act out in these ways to experience joy? What is joy anyway? Nothing is wrong with being alone. I guess people don't want to face themselves. Don't they realize that by doing this they may become more at peace, or even wole, once they stop running?

    BTW, I just got wind of this blog, and I am intrigued to say the least. Most of anything with sociopaths are attention whores bragging about how cool it is to be a self proclaimed sociopath. Only in these times would a personality disorder be the next cool thing, idiots...

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  17. So in fear of experiancing emptiness they act out in these ways to experience joy? What is joy anyway? Nothing is wrong with being alone. I guess people don't want to face themselves. Don't they realize that by doing this they may become more at peace, or even wole, once they stop running?

    Sometimes it seems that this so-called "pursuit of happiness" and religion serve basically the same purpose. They both serve to fight against the meaninglessness and emptiness. Noble, sure... but that's about it.

    I do think that some fleeting moments of joy are genuine, but I think that peace of mind is much more valuable than happiness.

    The closest thing to joy I know is in those moments of true self acceptance.

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  19. Medusa said, “Right before 7th grade I said to myself, "FUCK THIS!" and I started dressing weird, I quit trying to fit in, decided trying to be popular and accepted was a complete waste of time.”

    Yeah you’re right, my experience was almost the exact opposite of this. I quietly observed my peers in middle school for several years, while “acting out” and giving the adults a hard time. Then in 8th grade, I used what I’d learned and made myself one of the popular kids almost overnight. Seriously, it took about a few days, give or take. I did it again in high school as well. It was laughably easy. It was so easy it was absurd, which lead me to the same conclusion you came to:

    “I quietly think to myself that most of them are idiots.”

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  20. I keep hitting the wrong button!!! I wrote the above comment.

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  21. Aerianne, I've never experienced that, so I wouldn't know.

    Well, I guess I feel that way about my father, but I know little to nothing about his internal life, so....

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  22. Nirvana, read more of this blog. Then do some more online research.

    Only in these times would a personality disorder be the next cool thing, idiots...

    THANK YOU! I have never understood this phenomenon.

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  24. Then in 8th grade, I used what I’d learned and made myself one of the popular kids almost overnight. Seriously, it took about a few days, give or take. I did it again in high school as well. It was laughably easy. It was so easy it was absurd

    This is actually what I've been doing the past couple of years. It started out as an experiment borne of curiosity, but now I'm actually doing it for a reason: to further my "career", not because I actually want friends.

    I'm getting pretty good at it, too. People like me a lot, that is, as long as they don't date me.

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  25. Well, Medusa, what I described is what I deem Love.

    Yeah, sounds like it, though that's something I know little about. Must be a glorious feeling.

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  27. People like me a lot, that is, as long as they don't date me.

    This sentence made me LOL.

    And I'll have to agree with you Medusa on that love thing as well. I don't know that I have ever felt euphoric emotion in connection to love (defined here as "truly knowing and accepting another"). The first time I remember feeling euphoric was when I was 15. I set up a kid I didn't like by placing drugs in his locker and then anonymously tipping off the principal. I remember that after I'd done the deed and gone a little bit away from the school on my way home, I was overcome with this elation, this sense of victory. I think I literally jumped up and down for a second I felt so good! It was my first time playing a game of that magnitude and it felt terrific.

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  30. Love can be euphoric at times, but it can be lots of other things at different time.

    I agree. Love is multifaceted. There are many definitions. Although I know I care about a handful of people, I don't know if I love them, or if I ever have. I know action is part of what "real love" (somehow that sounds oxymoronic...) does and I have never been willing to truly inconvenience myself for anyone else. Knowing and accepting someone else at a deep level... It's so funny but as I think about it right now, I don't know that I care. Real self, false self, it makes no difference to me I guess. What would matter to me is what you (you in general) believe about yourself, whether you think you are being false or real. That insight would be useful.

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  32. My euphoria comes in those moments when I know how brilliant and wise and talented I am. Which goes away in those moments when I know I'm full of shit.

    Or when I'm "in love" with someone because I imagine/wish/hope/project that they are the same person as I am.

    Or when I'm alone on a long road trip, lost in the middle of a desert.

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  34. Euphoria wasn't the word you originally used in your definition of love. Happiness was. My bad. Everything I said after still holds true for me though.

    Besides, happiness is also a vague term. Notice how all these life defining emotions are that way? Hapiness, love, etc. They mean different things to different people. Even the term sociopath.

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  35. ^I don't understand why I keep pushing the wrong button today. Maybe god's trying to tell me something...

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    1. I guess, it tries to tell you that you are hyperactive and deeply involved in the conversation. The faster you are the faster you get a response. ;)

      Could it be that, dear Daniel?

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  36. Knowing and accepting someone else at a deep level... It's so funny but as I think about it right now, I don't know that I care. Real self, false self, it makes no difference to me I guess. What would matter to me is what you (you in general) believe about yourself, whether you think you are being false or real. That insight would be useful.

    That is how I am feeling these days as well.

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  37. That is how I am feeling these days as well.

    But that isn't always how you've felt, right? If you could change this, you would, no?

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  39. But that isn't always how you've felt, right? If you could change this, you would, no?

    No, it's not how I've always felt. I've been deluded for a long time, about others as well as myself, or at least that's how I view things right now.

    Would I change this? I don't really know, but probably not. I suppose there is some value in the whole "ignorance is bliss" thing, but one can't really go backwards, now can they?

    I suppose the shedding of delusions is a life-long thing, like peeling an onion of an infinite size. But one can never be completely sure what is delusion and what is not, now can they?

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  41. But one can never be completely sure what is delusion and what is not, now can they?

    Which is where pragmatism comes in. It’s always a good idea not to let a fundamentalist mindset grow, but at some point, you gotta just do the best you can with what you think you know and let life teach you which ideas to keep and which ones to drop.

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  42. Aerianne said, "I don't know that it is possible to be aware that you are being deluded in the moment."

    It's not possible, by definition.

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  43. It is possible to question it, though. That's about all you can do. To a point, that is, until you have to do this:

    Which is where pragmatism comes in. It’s always a good idea not to let a fundamentalist mindset grow, but at some point, you gotta just do the best you can with what you think you know and let life teach you which ideas to keep and which ones to drop.

    ... unless you don't mind having the abyss will swallow you whole.

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  44. Yes, Daniel, "Happiness"; and happiness and euphoria aren't always level on my scale.

    I've always thought of "Happiness" as a somewhat constant state of contentment or low-level euphoria--a kind of white noise constantly humming in the background. This, I don't believe I've ever felt, but random and fleeting bursts of euphoria, certainly.

    And, like Medusa these bursts are only really felt when I've achieved something I've categorized as significant.

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  45. Only in these times would a personality disorder be the next cool thing, idiots...

    THANK YOU! I have never understood this phenomenon.


    This got me thinking. The phenomenon you describe isn't necessary new. Even in ancient times (as well as native tribes today), humans have had the conception that defeating a beast and and consuming or adorning oneself with its emblem allows one to embody the power that it once possessed.

    An obvious example is the myth of Perseus and Medusa. After having beheaded the gorgon, Perseus returned the head to Athena to wear as an emblem for protection. Another example for certain native tribes is the consuming of particular organs from defeated humans/animals in order to gain their strength.

    In effect, when people feel vulnerable in any way, assuming the identity of one who is generally believed to be feared or powerful lends one a sense of impermeability. Hence, goth kids who have been bullied or shunned in high-school, and sociopath/psychopath "wannabes."

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    1. Interesting, apparently one of my oldest friends somehow associated me with Medusa when we were both in our late teens. On the other hand my last psychotherapist--every once in a while I give it another try--confronted me with Perseus, the shapeshifter, as he said. Didn't ring any bells in me. I never tried too hard to be anything but what I am. I may be hard to grasp for some though, that's why it could have been on his mind.

      I never ever had the slightest taste to manipulating people, with one exception. With nine or ten maybe, I manipulated a group of kids into observing a barn. I told them it was a place where robbers hid their loot occasionally. After about two weeks in which they all reported carefully what they had noticed or more often what they hadn't. I got tired and told them that they apparently had moved on to another place. Maybe they felt observed? I guess I realized at the time I didn't enjoy it. My core experience in not wanting to be either a leader, well definitively not a sheeple anyway, meaning being tricked by anyone the way I tricked them.

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  46. This got me thinking. The phenomenon you describe isn't necessary new. Even in ancient times (as well as native tribes today), humans have had the conception that defeating a beast and and consuming or adorning oneself with its emblem allows one to embody the power that it once possessed.

    Very very good point. I like this comment a lot.

    I've certainly done this myself; I do indeed steal parts of other people like this. I want to own the perceived "power" someone might have that I might not have myself.

    (Also, funny how Medusa allegory has become so useful and apt to me lately.)

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  47. It's like I actually "become" that person for a while, until I figure out how to integrate them into the rest of my psyche. Until I find that balance, things are usually very precarious.

    (I changed my first name the first day I started college, as sort of a "fuck you, and fuck me, too" gesture. While my current name is still very fitting, I am now wishing I had changed it to Medusa.)

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  48. I used to bully goth kids. I found it annoying that they would put on make up and dress like birds, and think that they were supposed to scare people. Really they looked like a bunch of tarts. They tried so hard to offend people with their supposed evil. At least now they are to what they belong: EMO kids.

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  49. This to me only proves how many cowards there are in today's society. To take the title of something they never were, don't understand, and assume is untouchable only makes me hate being around these people more.

    I understand the phenomena though, although juvenile. I couldn't ever see myself purposely wanting to embody a trait to show my power. It makes more sense to naturally have that power, to build it out of your own true character. I am now learning that mimicking something that was never really there only becomes more obvious with time. Eventually people will see past the facade. May take years upon years, but someone will have the courage to question and test said phoney individual.

    This is a very insightful place. Thanks for the suggestions Daniel. So far all I keep getting on the web though is teen attention whore sights. Why would anyone brag about how they are? They just are...There's a difference in discussing the realization of it all, and boasting like it was some kind of adventure. I guess my mindstate will never comprehend this...

    One thing in common with all personality types is that we all have the need to hide, whether it be the cowardess in us, or the "monster". I don't see why we even have classifications of personality disorders at all. All it does is box in a group of people for further isolation, bias, and prejudice. That was my experience in the military.

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  50. I mimicked for a long time too, trying to blend in more and get lost in the sea of people. The goth kids always upset me, and I was even more bothered being called one due to my thoughts and "emotions". As I am learning more about this I realized I was some disarticulated ragdoll to the rest of the world. I was just thrown together with a sundry of mismatched parts, and I tried to be something whole with parts that didn't work together. I wonder how I ever fooled anyone....it was so obvious....I guess that's where this charm came in.

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  52. Ukan, I was considered "goth" when I was younger... but for me it wasn't a "oh, look at me I am so sad and depressed and scary and evil" sort of thing, it was much more esoteric than that.

    A lot of it also had to do with the fact that I thought I should have been a male harpsichord/organ player in 17th/18th century Germany... and hence went on to study to become a composer.

    I certainly didn't wear the standard goth uniform (see previous sentence for a clue). I'm sure you still would have had a great time making fun of me, though, Ukan :)

    I certainly find the humor in it.

    Goth these days is a different animal. It's either an Emo (ugh) thing or a stripper thing.

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  53. It makes more sense to naturally have that power, to build it out of your own true character.

    True character? The older I get, the less I believe in such a thing.

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  54. To arienne:

    Yes. I am just a random poster, I wanted to learn more about sociopaths, but yeah, I believe so.

    I don't know much about you guys, but it seems very confusing to live in your world. Most of you want to be yourself, but your tendencies the society will not accept. Even in the process of embracing yourselves you still have to hide. I find this ironic. Nirvana stated this in their comment, as did others. They all went through a phase of self denial, and once they figured themselves out, they still go into the facades, the phoney emotions, the masks. Round full circle. Are you guys not able to stop this cycle. Are the newly discovered sociopaths the ones fighting the most with this, or is it all of the sociopaths?

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  56. Aerianne:

    Ha ha!

    And I concur.

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  57. Jesse again

    Medusa. Your comment find true character, how is it that it makes less sense to you as you get older. Once you guys have embraced who you truly are, isn't it easier to just, well, face it, and create a consistant, sturdy, for my lack of better words, character?

    And to Nirvana, you think it is easy to just find true character, but even in the, I don't know if it's right to say this, normal world, we have trouble finding it. Once we do find our honest true character though, we follow it, love it, appreciate it, and use it to better our lives. How would you be able to do this with your personality? Although I would never take on the personality traits of a sociopath because they sound absolutely dreadful, I can understand why one, possible insecure scared person, would want to portray such a believed to be, powerful person. I don't know what I would do if one day I suddenly took a long hard look at my actions, and life, and realized that there was a disorder for the way I treat people. I can only imagine how you guys must have felt. Is there any way out of your behavior?

    Sorry for my barging in on a personal topic.

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  58. Jesse said, “they still go into the facades, the phoney emotions, the masks. Round full circle. Are you guys not able to stop this cycle.”

    I for one don’t see that there is any other intelligent choice Jesse. Am I really supposed to broadcast to everyone who will listen that I could do any violent thing to them at any time I wanted and that I probably wouldn’t be very disturbed by it? At all? For example, should I really admit to my bro n law that while I was over at his house the other week, I eyed the hammer he’d just bought, sitting there on the coffee table all shiny and new, and that I vividly imagined myself jamming the sharp end into his left eye? I mean, it wasn’t like I was full of hate for him at that moment or anything. I just wondered how I would really feel if I just did it. Do I tell my sister that’s what I was thinking in casual conversation? Or maybe I should just tell everybody I know that I don’t give a damn about what they are going through, that I never have and never will, and that I only pretend to because I know that’s what “good people” do. That would be fine of course. Until I need them for something later. That’s when things would get really awkward for me…

    When people advocate a mask free life, what I hear them really advocating is complete honesty and sincerity. Again, I could go there. I could be honest more often than I am. But why would I? What’s to be gained from being honest, as a way of life, with people who are themselves liars anyway? The self deluded are masters of deception, after all, and I am surrounded by those who lie to themselves every single day of their lives.

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  60. Good theory no one. I can understand that. I don't grok it though. Then again, I never have. I noticed this desire to impress others, this need to be accepted and seen, and the underlying fear that drove that behavior since I was oh, 12 years old. It's really an amazing thing to watch from the outside of it. And as Nirvana implies, why bother with such strategies as a means of managing your fear? Why not confront the fear directly with a view towards overcoming it and moving on? It's irrational and ridiculous.

    Aerianne, I'll the "Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociopath" t-shirt, please. In black of course.

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  62. I agree Aerianne. To an extent anyway. In the sense you're talking about, you could say that everyone wears a mask, in one way or the other.

    It does seem to me though that someone like me, someone without a conscience, has to be... maskier. I would frighten the children masquerading as adults with the scary black hole where my "heart" is supposed to be. :-)

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  64. Aerianne, that sounded vaguely... naughty. Keep talking.

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  65. So, most, if not all of who I addressed, on this site, are sociopaths?

    You all admit to masks? This is common then? How long have most of you dealt with this personality? What is the age group of this group I am adressing, your ages...
    and are any females?

    I do understand the need to hide though. I am thankful that most of you have the decency to know your wrongs and rights, and not act out. Is the refusal to acting out your conscience? I was informed that sociopaths don't have a conscience...

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  67. Aerianne and Birdick are goth too?! Oi. This is been a fucking gothic blog all along. How could I have not seen the signs.

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  68. How could you not have seen indeed. I thought everybody knew that goths wrote long ass comments about nothing on sociopathic blogs!

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  69. Ha ha, Ukan! Too bad for you.

    I am still always in all black. Right now, tight black jeans, black boots, black shirt, black leather jacket, pitch black hair. And I had some black metal on earlier.

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  70. Jesse, we are not all sociopaths. Only two people that I know of commenting on this thread possess some degree of real sociopathy.

    I am not. Nor am I really much of an empath, either. If anything, I'm a self-aware narcissist, and not a full fledged one at that. And I am a female.

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  71. While this post is admittedly vague, it is a very accurate summation of my life thus far. "Late teen sociopath begins to truly understand who he is only after one of his friends hates him. " in particular.

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  72. Is the refusal to acting out your conscience?

    Jessi, let me answer you this way. I could have killed my bro n law. But he isn’t worth the potential consequences. It would be really messy to have to kill someone on the fly like that, especially for no other reason than impulse. That doesn’t sound like gain to me.

    I use that to illustrate how I think. Gain does not equal acting on every impulse. But again, that’s just me. For me, what is “right” is what equals gain. What is “wrong” is what equals opportunity costs.

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  73. Hi Aerianne XD!

    I am gonna give you my experience with liquor. I am 25 years old, and whenever I drink it does nothing but give me a stomach ache. I have no taste for it whatsoever, but on those occasions where I was trying to be social, and did drink, nothing came out of it but pain. I pretended to have a good time, but the personality that should have been freed wasn't there. I smile and giggle cutely alot, and scope out what suckers I can to entertain me, but parties are more like a buffet. If I ever go, its for the hunt. Last time I was at a party, another failed attempt at being normal, I struggled to drink a mixed drink made for me by the host's roommate. I sat on the couch away from people, and watched around, annoyed, and entertained by the people there. I was given three lap dances by drunk girls, and although inside all I wanted to do was choke them with their own hair, I just smiled, and tried to interact naturally with them. I know the normal reaction would be to enjoy the rape-age of my face, but the only reaction I had was to bite. I did, hard, on the girl's breasts, got a quick gratification out of that, and it was quickly over after she got up shocked but too drunk to understand what happened. The other girl I spanked too hard, and the last one, I had to stop because my urges were taking over. In short the whole ordeal was pretty miserable. I left early to another person's house to fill that void of endless energy. She too ended u being drunk, along with her sister an law, and I left ignoring my urges to completely dominate her. She was asking for it, but I stopped myself. Plus I just personally hate drunks. I'd rather them be aware of what's going on.

    As far as being comfortable, I never am. I can sit still long enough to function, which is about 2 hours or less, but my mind is constantly racing with thoughts, and ideas, and what's next to stimulate me. I get most of my stimulation through people, ironically, because most of the time I am just seeing how much I can get away with as far as entertainment. But it never lasts, and I have to start over. I also draw, alot. My images are the thoughts that I want to act on, but most I can't. Needless to say my art is sadistic, dark, sexual, and perverted. But even through my art I feel nothing. When someone asks what my inspiration was for certain topics and paintings, I usually never have an answer. It's not from my inner most feelings and personal demons per se, it more so of what I wish I could be, what I wish I could do. My art does speak volumes though. Many people smart enough to see past my unrealized hidden messages see that I have some dark fantasies. Most of the art with blood on them is blood from uh, acquaintances, if that makes sense.

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  74. To piggy back on Medusa's last comments (she loves when I piggy back her), I am not real big on claiming I am a sociopath. That label means too many different things to too many different people to be all that meaningful outside of an institutionalized setting. What I can say with complete confidence is that I don't have a conscience or instinctive empathy. The absence of those two normative qualities alone appears to make all the difference in the world.

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  75. Jesse what do you mean that we don't act out? Refusal of what?
    Aeianne, I have personally let too much out about how I really think and have gotten myself in quite a bit of twists drinking with people I merely associate with. I personally will rarely drink with people outside my circle.
    To unwind I like to smoke weed and play video games. It stops my thoughts for a second, otherwise my brain keeps scheming obsessively. Sometimes ill unwind by fucking with the people from lovefraud. Its always fun to figure out people's insecurities and use it on them. Lately I've been watching a show called Intreatment. Good for people who enjoy psychology.

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  76. Jesse, I'm female. Are you doing some kind of research paper or something?

    random question to others, are emos those douches that have the hair all in their face, and second skin tight jeans. I thought those were goths, what's emo even mean? They piss me off...

    I guess I'm goth now, my posts are long, damn....

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  77. Medusa. Your comment find true character, how is it that it makes less sense to you as you get older. Once you guys have embraced who you truly are, isn't it easier to just, well, face it, and create a consistant, sturdy, for my lack of better words, character?

    The only word I have a problem with here is the word "true".

    Sure, everyone has certain traits about themselves that will always be there and will never change. But these inalienable traits... who's to ever really know if they are "true" or not?

    For example. Let's say you have a trait that was originally created as a defensive mechanism when you were a small child. Does this fact make the trait more "false"? Are only traits you are born with "true"? Are traits you acquired through experience or defense or to be accepted by whoever necessarily "false"? Is the fact that someone may be self-deluded nevertheless a "true" trait of this person? Who's to say? Isn't it mix of all of this that makes a person what they are at any given moment?

    In the end I say it doesn't much matter, you are who you are right now; the reasons barely matter; it's what you do or don't do with whatever traits you have that matters.

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  78. random question to others, are emos those douches that have the hair all in their face, and second skin tight jeans. I thought those were goths, what's emo even mean? They piss me off...

    Those are Emos, I believe. With the stupid Justin Bieber haircuts dyed black, sometimes they have neon shoelaces for some reason. I think they listen to shit like Evanescence or My Chemical Romance or some such crap.

    It's also possible that they are just rocker dudes...I think most Emos are under 25 or so.

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  79. To piggy back on Medusa's last comments (she loves when I piggy back her)

    You know it!

    Ukan, man I love that show, In Treatment. Waiting for it to some back on the air already.

    And weed... love the stuff, though it's bad for me if I overdo it. That first toke is like a great big exhale after holding your breath for days...

    Drinking, though, I despise, and always have. I never have any more than maybe 2 whiskeys a month, if that. I despise drunks as well; I hate anything that makes people "fake love" everyone else.

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  80. They are the skinny kids that look like a scene from the schindlers list. Malnourished and still wearing their jeans and shirt they wore in kindergarten

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  81. oh man! I work with some of those! I knew a group of them who wanted to make a band, and their lyrics were just trying too hard to be deep and poetic...are they the ones that cut for attention too? I have seen these guys...

    I wish they would just put Justin Beiber out of my misery, What a waste of skin...gut that guy already. Evanescence can blow me.

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  82. I don't know anymore than that. I walked by one of their shows at a park and they looked so odd I had to comment. My girlfriend explained that they were emos. I thought it was a fundraiser for starving children in eastern europe.

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  83. Oh dear, all this sycophantic behaviour by the natives is most upsetting! Worst still, feeding their massively extended egos foie gras style will only extend their perceived self worth and delusional view.

    Sad!

    Come on pre school idiot, we need you! (Cunt)

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  84. cheer up, Anon. *huggles*

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  89. Heh, for a brief moment there I was looking for a "like" link under your post, Aerianne.

    I am corrupted.

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  92. Glenn Danzig is almost really hot.

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  94. Oh dear, all this sycophantic behaviour by the natives is most upsetting! Worst still, feeding their massively extended egos foie gras style will only extend their perceived self worth and delusional view.

    Sad!

    Come on pre school idiot, we need you! (Cunt)


    This is just a blog. No one here could extend a sociopaths ego at all. I could say "Daniel I love you so much you're so smart and sweet" and he would laugh. I could say "Daniel you're such a scumbag" and he would laugh...or worse retaliate! It doesn't have much effect. Sometimes we say cutsie stuff to get their attention but that doesn't mean much. So we are not responsible for boosting anyone's ego here.

    Grace

    Wow so many comments for a day!

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  95. Aerianne, I have to say that your blog is fascinating, in a bizarrely psychotic kind of way.

    This is a compliment.

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  97. Hope you're better Medusa. Sound good.

    Grace

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  98. Yep, I am, thanks for asking :)

    Found some distractions and a source of ego-boosting.

    Thinking a good part of my bad mood was a sudden change in the weather and post-performance blues.

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  99. Hello,
    I am writing a story involving two characters with psychopathic or sociopathic traits as they grow up, so this post has been particularly interesting to me. Are there any gross misconceptions that any of you often hear that I should avoid?
    Thank you and have a great day!

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  100. Jesus... I got to the party late.

    Timeline fits for me. Almost too perfectly, really. It offends my sense of uniqueness. :P

    Good show, ME.

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  101. Jesse said...So, most, if not all of who I addressed, on this site, are sociopaths? You all admit to masks? This is common then? How long have most of you dealt with this personality?

    First of all…anyone who claims to be a full-on sociopath, be it online or elsewhere, is essentially removing the credibility from their claim. Second…the concept of a mask is common amongst humans and it isn’t a personality, it’s what covers up the personality. Finally, as well as the most important thing for you to remember…you aren’t addressing anyone. You haven’t a microphone or a podium. What you do have are questions and an internet connection to ask them (like everyone else) and you might get answers or you might not. Okay pumpkin?

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  102. I actually like the sense of emptiness. It's calm and quiet. Not much feelings, but it gives me stability.

    John

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  103. Really? John? Or that is all you know? Just asking as a question.

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  104. Aerianne, I collect Danzig's stuff too. I first delved into his art when I was 15. That's when I got more courage to be open with my perverted thoughts, and put them on paper. I was still lost at this point, but this art helped me more than anyone will ever know XD.

    I wasn't fortunate enough to get any stuff signed though...lucky. Verotik is good stuff.

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  106. What I meant for refusal to act out is these temptations that you guys list, like Daniel wanting to kill, and Nirvana biting people, but stopping themselves from making it go further, I was talking about these urges to harm people. There has to be a form of conscience if you guys don't just do it.

    What you said does make sense though Daniel, I guess from your POV. I don't really know how to react to that response, but you make a clear view of what you meant. So far after reading the comments I think there are three sociopaths (daniel, nirvana, and UK) and who is the blogger?, and I have noticed that not one of them actually use, "I am a sociopath". If you are self aware, as most of you claim, why not just say it. Someone made a comment about a true sociopath would never call themselves one, but three are admitting to it now. Why would addressing it directly make it more false?

    To MEDUSA:

    What is an empath? As in you empathize with people? And a self aware narcissist? What does that even mean? Isn't narcissim part of the key points of sociopathy?

    I am kinda writing a report BTW, more like a story. I have a few characters, and wanted to get them right. I'm doing personal research, but don't want to bother with the typical killers, though it seems to me that all sociopaths have this urge to kill, or harm. It sounds like sociopathy is a chemical imbalance in the brain which interferes with logical empathetic reasoning.

    UK, are you male?

    Please don't take offense to my questions, I doubt you guys are, just curious, intrigued, and trying to understand, though all this is really doing is making me more disturbed...

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  108. I wouldn't doubt that. They're probably the most vulnerable of all, albeit as vapid and boring as any valley girl.

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  109. I like gargoyles. Did I spell that right? I like some of the other art works too. I get catalogs from Pyramid. Check out the site ladies..cool stuff.

    Grace

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  110. I can honestly say that I am disturbed by the honesty of ME, Daniel, Nirvana, and Postmodern Sociopath. I have read some of the other blogs to get more of an understanding, and all I gained was discontent, awe, and confusion. UKan, if you too are a sociopath, I have gathered as much, from your posts you are also on the list. Nirvana is a virgin to this,still in the category to me nonatheless, Daniel the x-pert, and Me, just wow. None of you claim the title sociopath. Why not?

    Daniel, it doesn't make sense for you to have so much control if you are a sociopath. Does maturity add to the control you have over your impulses? To want to stabsomeone for no reason....that's frightning. Do you actually hate him? Or is it just this "impulse" that your type experiences.

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    1. I know this is two years old, but I wanted to randomly respond to your question (even if you already know by now. :) The reason why (some) Sociopaths don't go around murdering people randomly or doing various crimes is because (some) of them are SMART. They kind of don't want to go to prison and lose their jobs/careers etc. You don't need a conscience to keep yourself from doing something illigal. Anyone who thinks a person needs one to "do the right thing" is an idiot. Some of them simply realize IF they do something f-cked up, they could easily go to jail/prison and ruin their lives. They don't need a conscience to realize something so blatant. Just my opinion.

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  111. To anonymous poster september 2, 3:06 a.m., I adressed them this time, better?

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  112. Or is it just this "impulse" that your type experiences.

    Most killers, particularly serial killers, more closely resemble schizoids, and those diagnosed with schizophrenia/bipolar. Not to mention, only around 20% of North American prisons consist of those who have AsPD.

    So, to expand on what Medusa said, who should you really be addressing?

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  113. Sorry, that was Anon, not Medusa.

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  114. Jesse the Body Ventura

    One reason I don’t claim the title sociopath is because the “title” is meaningless. If you have done the research, you will know what I mean. Since I have been commenting as Daniel Birdick for instance, I have had people tell me that they are 100% certain I am a sociopath, including a psychologist (Dr. Robert). I have also had people say that they are 100% certain I am not. It all depends on who is doing the labeling and the reasoning they are using.

    Another reason is, I am not pathological. As you said yourself, I am not a slave to “malignant” impulses. Also, in some ways, I feel like I am saner than most of the people around me, those who are slaves to their emotions and their unconsciously held and unexamined beliefs.

    The final reason is, I don’t care. I know who and what I am in terms of my personality traits. Any labels that other people use to describe those traits are their business, not mine.

    And finally, my anecdote… No, I don’t hate my bro in law. He is actually a nice guy. Do you really find what I said frightening though? Really? Or are you just being dramatic? You can tell Daniel.

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  115. Oh, and what no one said.

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  116. I don't believe children can be diagnosed as sociopaths. Their brains haven't finished developing. They might have sociopath tendencies but the vast majority of children have sociopathic tendencies because empathy has to be learned.

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  117. "How often have empaths wished to be free from the dramatic emotions? How often have socios wished to understand the feelings that drive empaths? I think, ideally, a normal would be a nice blend of both."

    Eastern tradition teaches yin and yang. It's only the western tradition which treats everything as you have to be one extreme or the other. Ideally it's good to have empathy AND be reasonable.

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  118. I am truly disturbed, but intrigued as you are the only one that addresses me.

    I am sure in person you would hurt me though, though you claim to have enough control.

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  119. Oh, don't be silly. Daniel's just a big teddybear. A baby-strangling teddybear, mind you, but nobody's perfect.

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  120. See Jesse the Jellicle Cat, I have a hard time believing that. I mean really, all kidding aside, don't most people have thoughts like the one I described at some time or the other? And if they (you) don't, aren't you repressing your instinctive aggressive feelings?

    Everyone else has moved on, but don't worry, I wouldn't hurt you. Why would I? Unless you gave me a reason to... I'm a nice guy though, so you're safe.

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  121. Well, apparently not everyone has moved on...

    See, Postmodernish agrees: I am the nicest guy you'll ever meet in all your life!

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  122. I assure you I'm much more passive than I appear. I just happen to subscribe to the Comment RSS feed. No stalking.

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  123. Hey jess, I had to make a remark this time since you are so persistent.

    How did anything I said disturb you? What is being said by most is the truth. This is a group of people aware of who they are. When anyone embraces who they truly are they don't need a label. Labels are for those on the outside to understand without getting to know the person they are putting in that box. If you got to know the person completely, there is no need for labels, you would already know.

    Labels are pointless, as is admitting to one. Just figure out who you are, accept it, learn from it, and move on. Simple. Who really cares besides doctors, and you...

    P.S. I think you're nice too Danny XD!

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  124. No, I don't get that angry, I haven't had many violent thoughts, a few yes, but never anything like that. Especially to someone who was described as a nice guy...

    When I did imagine hurting a guy I didn't like, I pictured fighting him, you know, punching, normal stuff, stabbing? That's uncalled for...good to know your nice though.

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  125. Wow, you responded. I am interested in you Nirvana cuz you are a female, I believe you said that, that shows a more violent side, not borderline-ish side to female sociopaths. I think the female sociopaths are hard to find, and they definitely don't respond.

    And you had a girlfriend. Your actions sound mannish...just, interested is all...plus you explained being involved in a relationship. Didn't think sociopaths could have a relationship.

    What's with my name changing all the time?

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  126. I came at a good time, everyone is here XD!

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  127. I've just gone back to read some of your other comments on this post, Daniel. I'm beginning to get a bit uncomfortable with how similar our lives have been. Down to ages, grade levels, particular actions.

    You're not me from the future are you?

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  128. Speaking of Postmodernity, you appear to have attracted the attention of our resident stalker.

    Jesse James (or is it Jamesetta?), if that's true, then you need to get in touch with your inner beast, if only in your imagination. Let your mind roam free of artificial moral restraints. Trust me, your inner beast won't bite. You.

    Seriously, you have never wanted to kill anyone? Ever? Even for a moment?

    And Nirvana, thanks. The Vatican is rushing thru my candidacy for sainthood as we speak...

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  129. Derrida said, "You're not me from the future are you?"

    We live in weird times, do we not?

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  130. No, not ever. I couldn't imagine taking another life. For what? I can just control my anger, when it happens, and move on. And my morals aren't artificial. I do actually care about other people.

    I don't get that vatican comment you made to Nirvana. And it's Jesse...unless this is your way at getting at me...

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  131. LOL, someone's getting bothered!

    I don't believe you Jess, it is natural for people to experience aggression. We are animals afterall.

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  132. Daniel: I like the Derrida reference. Maybe I'll have to change my handle to throw off my secret admirer.

    Jesse: It's not about anger. You don't have to be angry to want to kill someone.

    And yes... your morals are artificial. Daniel and I are proof of that, if nothing else.

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  133. Daniel: I like the Derrida reference. Maybe I'll have to change my handle to throw off my secret admirer.

    Jesse: It's not about anger. You don't have to be angry to want to kill someone.

    And yes... your morals are artificial. Daniel and I are proof of that, if nothing else.

    ReplyDelete
  134. How old are you Jesse? Or is it Jessica? Why did you decide to leave comments here?

    I am not mad at you. Not in the slightest. I like to play with other people's online handles from time to time. It amuses me.

    The Vatican, saint makers extraordinaire, the absurdity of that whole process... never you mind. Sarcasm isn't fun if I have to explain it.

    Btw, I don't believe you. About the never wanting someone dead thing. Either you are lying to me or more likely, you are lying to yourself. Or... you haven't lived long enough.

    ReplyDelete
  135. You people are sick. Animals? Don't have to be angry to want to kill someone? Yes you do. What would the other reason be? It can't just be to do it. That's sick.

    How are you proof of that?

    ReplyDelete
  136. Explain war to me. Is that all anger, then? Dying is what people do. Killing is just a detour. Have you ever killed a mosquito? Slaughtered a chicken? Hunted? Why does sentience make it different for you?

    I'm not baiting, I'm genuinely curious.

    ReplyDelete
  137. Jessica dear, you haven't answered my questions. For instance, how old are you?

    ReplyDelete
  138. I'm 28 years old. And you don't have to believe me, I know I am telling the truth. I came here to try and understand the thought process of you people. It doesn't seem like much of you think, you just...do. That isn't normal. I had a feeling that not all sociopath's are freaks, violent, killers, that that was just a stereotype from Hollywood, but coming here, speaking to a few of you, I am starting to think otherwise. I know you do this type of thing for amusement, but are you guys not able to just have a normal conversation without turning it into some type of game? The world is not your playground to use until you feel like your recess time is up. Don't know why you people think that way...

    ReplyDelete
  139. Thank you Jesse. Be ye male or female?

    ReplyDelete
  140. Yes, I have killed a mosquito. It's an annoying pointless bug. No, not a chicken. I eat them, not kill them, I don't think I could kill one. I don't hunt, and I think war is pointless. People die for what? To fuel some egos?

    ReplyDelete
  141. Male, thanks for using my proper name...

    ReplyDelete
  142. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_theory

    Read that, Jesse. The world is a playground. Life is a cooperative, asymmetric, zero-sum, simultaneous, imperfect information game. Roughly speaking, that is. The math is a touch more complicated, in truth.

    ReplyDelete
  143. Oh, that's just naïve. War is all about dueling egos? That seems to nullify all the brilliant efforts of strategists throughout the ages. A perfect strategist is without real ego. He may present one to further his play, but it's just another mask. Life is war.

    ReplyDelete
  144. Ok then Jesse. Have you lived a cloistered life? Not gotten out much mayhap? Or maybe you have never had your heart broken into a million pieces by someone who you thought loved you... Maybe you have never given your life energy to a cause greater than yourself only to see that cause crushed by an apparently greater power. Or, maybe you are indeed buried your own anger, which means you have also buried your own assertiveness, your drive, your courage.

    To never have been angry enough that you want to kill somoene, at least for a brief moment, is to never have really lived. Which even at 28, is kind of sad. For you.

    Would you like to tell Daniel why you find anger so threatening and the idea of sociopaths so fascinating? Perhaps there is a clue in that, if you care to look...

    ReplyDelete
  145. No it isn't, maybe to you people, but not to us normal people. And that whole game theorist biology thing, that didn't make any sense.

    Back to war, has anything good ever came out of war, realistically? No, because war still comes around eventually, even though the first initial wars were to end a disagreement between two parties. Why am I even trying to debate with you guys, you could never see through unfogged lenses.

    ReplyDelete
  146. I think you're conflating what Daniel's saying with what I'm saying. He and I are dealing with separate issues concurrently.

    And I'm the one with fogged vision? I think if you spent a day in my head you'd find the experience lends a great deal of clarity to life.

    What do you do, Jesse? I don't know many 28 year olds who don't get anything out of game theory.

    ReplyDelete
  147. I mean in terms of occupation or education. Not your day-to-day. I already know that... you breathe, you eat, you sleep, you fuck (maybe), you shit, you die.

    ReplyDelete
  148. Daniel:

    Sociopaths are like a contradiction to me. They are people, creatures created to nuture, and follow a behavioral pattern, and they don't. The fact that they may be born without a conscience is boggling, and the more I am learning about them the more nothing makes sense. I have been angry, like I stated before, and also like I stated not enough to harm permanently. Anger is a wasted emotion, there are so many other emotions that do more good than harm. I think people who live off of anger are cowards, and use this emotion to intimidate. I don't need to do that to get a point across. No one really needs too. I may be the only male that finds violence offensive, but I do, and that you can just use this violence, something already un necessary, as a tool, is actually juvenile, and pathetic.

    No, I haven't been crushed by a girl I dated at one point, and I had a decent upbringing. I was very fortunate in this, and I was raised to not react with violence and to treat others with respect. I am not a coward if that's what you're implying. I can say now though I am getting pretty frustrated with your comments...

    I know it's a game. You won't win this...

    ReplyDelete
  149. I'm an undergrad,with my major being journalism. I decided to choose a thesis topic on this personaliy disorder. I started college really late, due to my free range bohemian lifestyle in my late teens and early twenties. Why?

    Funny, the comment of my everyday life (it wasn't really)...

    ReplyDelete
  150. Because I'm curious about you. I need data so I can draw conclusions. Not to be a cliché but...

    We're not so different, you and I.

    ReplyDelete
  151. Jesse,

    Who is playing a game? And did I ever use the word coward to describe you? No my man, that was you. Which is interesting…

    Somewhere, right under the surface of your formal ethical belief system, is a desire to be powerful, isn’t it? You see yourself as weak and you try to hide that weakness behind a cloak of moral superiority, don’t you? You don’t really seek to understand. That would require lowering your defenses and walking in someone else’s shoes. You have no real intention of doing that. No, you want to prove a point. To yourself. Which means that on some level, you don’t buy your own… um… “crap”, do you?

    ReplyDelete
  152. Postmodern Sociopath:

    Don't ever compare me to what you are. I am never going to be in the same category as you, don't forget that. Draw conclusions? About what, you know what, don't answer that.

    ReplyDelete
  153. I don't seek to categorize you. Far from it. All I mean is that you and I aren't as dissimilar as you believe.

    Was that a touch of fear? Coming to some uncomfortable realizations, perhaps?

    Anyway, for the sake of quid pro quo I'll furnish you with the same information I asked of you.

    I'm a mathematician, programmer, designer, physicist, computer scientist... if it involves numbers, I do it. Typography, too. I'm also a student.

    ReplyDelete
  154. Daniel:

    I have nothing to hide, I am proving a point. You claim to be people who understand yourselves well while ignoring the term monster, but that's all you people are, monsters. No crap has ever came from my mouth. I am powerful because I am able to live a meaningful full life, unlike you and your sick family on this site, filled with misery and discontent because you can't be like the empaths, people who have feelings, and have a meaning to their existance. I think you wish to be like me, not the other way around.

    Regardless, I am done here. For now anyway. You guys are freaks. All of you, You Daniel, ME, Postmodern Sociopath, No One, Nirvana, UKan, even the people befriending the psychos on here, you all have issues. Good night.

    ReplyDelete
  155. Make sure to link us to your thesis. I'll be interested to see it.

    ReplyDelete
  156. Jesse,

    I expected you to bow out right about now. Truth hurts, doesn't it mon ami?

    Everything that has come out of your mouth was crap. It’s crap that you are trying to convince yourself of and not quite succeeding.

    And you know it.

    To cling to naïve moral notions in the face of war, in the face of reality, is bullshit psychology at its finest, most common and stinkiest. In the battle between believing fairy tales about monsters and having to make a go of it in the real world, reality always wins. Only always.

    Again, you know this.

    You know it but you wish to deny it. Denial fuels moral outrage. Denial and fear. Fear that your morality is useless, that it won’t protect you and never has. Fear that you really are as weak as believe yourself to be. And I’m willing to bet that someone did hurt you badly, didn’t they Jesse James wannabe?

    I know you are reading this. The shadow can only be healed by coming into the light of non-denial. But you are too weak for that, aren't ya?

    Well anyway, it's been fun. Don't be a stranger! ;-)

    ReplyDelete
  157. And one more thing. I just reread my last comment and it makes me sound a tad more hostile than I intended. Really Jesse's Girl, I am not mad. Not even annoyed. You really were fun! If my words offended you then that is your cue to refocus on you, find out what it is that you are believing that is generating the emotion of anger inside, and examine it (and thus yourself) carefully. This is one way to create inner clarity and clarity begets freedom. Freedom, the most important kind anyway, is always an inside job. Being honest with yourself is the key. Give self honesty a whirl.

    Or not.

    ReplyDelete
  158. Jesse wouldn't recognize hostility if it stabbed him in the gut, from the sounds of it.

    ReplyDelete
  159. as i read this it felt like memories i made myself forget came back, ones were i wanted to be at the top of the social chain. and now im there but last night i just lost my best friend because he thinks im demented and disgusting on how i use people. i
    keep crying because ive finaly seen what ive done to people im just scared and dont know what to do...
    im 16 and scared, the only way i knwo to live is to manipulate people to do thigns for me. even my girlfriend i have manipulated into sex manytimes... im disgusting i dont know what to do anymore, i dont know how to get out of this or find a better habit. i used to abuse drugs and such i still drink like crazy because it helps me just block out the world. i really want help but i dont know how to get it and the psychiatrist just keeps telling me he wants to hospitalize me im scared i just want help from people who understand my problem!
    if you can give me some enlightenment please email me.
    please help me..
    asterban@yahoo.com

    ReplyDelete
  160. First word of advice, don't post the email you use for Facebook... Des, is it?

    Second, why do you feel that it's "wrong"? Why not just go with it? If it's all you know, just live your life. What are you so scared of, anyway? Friendships during your midteens are hardly forever.

    ReplyDelete
  161. lol, wow, Jesse stood no chance. Poor guy. I'm sure his image of "our kind" was tainted a little more heh.

    He was just another person afraid to embrace their "darker" sides for fear of "becoming" a sociopath. You don't become a sociopath with a violent thought, or 6. Jesse will never understand I'm afraid. Hope his paper is factual, and not pent-up full of disgust and rage. Don't need another one of those.

    On a lighter note, thanks for the entertainment guys. It was rather enjoying to watch him crumble under pressure. He is hiding from himself.

    ReplyDelete
  162. I was stupid enough to allow my partner's son to come and live with us - he was 20 at the time. What followed can only be described as a type of terrorism against me. He would take my prescription medication and mix it in with my yogourt drink, listen in to all of our conversation because one of the microphones he was using could work also as an amp, took money from my purse, made sure he used the phone when I was watching TV and even worse things I cannot even write about, nearly 13 years after the event. He had written it all down in a letter to his girlfriend which he had hidden away and I found when trying to tidy up the mess he made in his room. To cut a long story short, he thought his behaviour did not merit him being evicted but evicted he was and if I never see him again that will be fine. I do not think people like that can change - the are just evil, end of.

    ReplyDelete
  163. I'm still a teenager and I haven't been diagnossed with sociopathy yet (because you can't until you're 18) however everything you described up until my point describes me to a tee.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What do you mean yet? Don't let anyone know what you are, avoid diagnoses.

      Delete
  164. Really well thought out. I now feel awesome as I broke out of the self deception stage, becoming aware of what I was when I was only 16. Fuck Yeah.

    ReplyDelete
  165. I just read all of the comments, and watching Jesse crumbling was very amusing for me.
    Anyway, I'm fifteen and everything above describes me perfectly so far. I'm hesitant to call myself a sociopath (but I'm hesitant to give any name to what I am; it strikes me as being far too like erecting a cage around yourself), but I have to say that the descriptions describe me perfectly.

    ReplyDelete
  166. All I can say is that I do everything I can to help my 29 year old son. I believe he is a sociopath. I was good parent and even better one when my wife died. He takes of himself and tells me I am a good father. He will not put himself out one iota for me.

    One day, I fell on a staircase and I called him to come home (he was in Texas, me in Oregon). I thought I had broken my ankle. He told me No, he would not be able to because it cost $140 to change his ticket.

    I ended up in a cast and crutches - and he came home two days later. I was on my own. I have not visited him since.

    Cold Hearted = Sociopath

    ReplyDelete
  167. A very interesting read.....
    I came here with the intentions of understanding who (I previously thought) I was, only to have discovered a completely different thing.
    Hurrah for research, huh?

    Well, atleast I know that I cannot and probabally willnot ever be defined. I display way too many "symptoms" for that to happen.

    ReplyDelete
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  169. Being a sociopath seems like a lot of work. Ironically, I have a lot of empathy for them.

    ReplyDelete
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  172. Absolutly perfect depection. I'm a 20 year old girl. My realization is more or less just starting and I'm trying now to figure out what I'm supose to do that can be productive and positive. I am highly aware that I am a sociopath however I don't feel that it has to be a negative aspect of my personality, challenging yes; but it can create wonderful things.

    ReplyDelete
  173. Everyone struggles in some aspect of their personality. In my life it is always the hardest when I except things to go my way, (selfishness) and it does not that is when the choice to either hurt someone to get my way or decide it isn't worth it. I have noticed that the less I choose myself and my desires, the easier and less stressful life becomes.

    Jeremiah 17:9-10
    The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked : who can know it? I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

    We are all no good, thank God I have have realized there is nothing I can do, God did it all for me and I have a choice on how I want to live. Everything I do, how I treat others each day, how I think, act, everything is a choice I make, NOT because of my past, friends, parents or some outside force. It was so freeing to me when I realized I have choice in who and how I am.

    John 3:16-21
    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish , but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved . He that believeth on him is not condemned : but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved .But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest , that they are wrought in God.

    ReplyDelete
  174. "Sociopath child, to teen, to adult" makes me think of my transgendered son (age---early 20's) who blames his step-father & myself for ALL of his problems. After slandering me on social media & cutting me out of his life because I tried asking him questions about his feelings & sharing some of mine with him, I found out he was holding a huge grudge over three arguments over a span of five years, and accusing his step-father & me of things that he himself does---drugs, physical & verbal abuse, and taking the truth & twisting it around to make it seem perverted. Now he's got the support of his internet friends & co-workers who don't know him like I do. They've never lived with him. They never tried parenting him on something as simple & basic as taking his dirty dishes to the sink when finished, but no instead he hates us forever for that. They've never dealt with the constant bad moods, anger, blame, cutting, & social awkwardness that they couldn't help him with, and neither could his therapists. I'm scared to run into these kids on the street. They see me & my husband as a monster & I'm afraid of retaliation. I'm also afraid this information with get back to his father or my mother---that we abused & neglected him & his step-father is some kind of gay pervert who "wanted him at age 13 but settled for me" (WTF?). These kinds of stories would land my mother in the hospital, and I'd probably get a very angry phone call from his dad. I don't know what to do except back away. Since I've been cut off I guess it won't be too hard, but it hurts!! I'm actually scared & don't know what to expect from him in the future. How can I be there for someone as a mom if he believes in his mind that I'm the enemy after all I've done & all the good times I thought we had in the past & from what I thought, the very recent past? I shared private things with him & he used my words against me to the world wide web. I feel tricked & betrayed. He is always right about everything. There is nothing wrong with him. It's everyone else.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Keep the conflict level down. Don't play blame games. That means not victimizing yourself when relating to him or talking with him. Don't reach for him unless he reaches for you first. Don't "need" him, it empowers him. Don't go in circles with him, recognize patterns of communication and break them. Don't expect or need him to understand you. He probably won't. He most likely only listens to the power language, and by your despair I understand that you are giving him full control.

      If the people he knows are not total morons they probably do understand that there are several sides to a story, and other peoples private lives are not theyr business. If one of my social media "friends" were advertising how his or hers parents are terrible monsters, I would instantly assume that there is a conflict there that I know nothing about and I would know that this friend was stepping over a line of what is acceptable.

      Take it easy. If confronted, show with your voice and body language that you believe in yourself. It will make others believe you. The best way in doing this is firstly distancing yourself from this.

      If he ever comes back to you, remember that you are dealing with a broken relationship. These tend to follow a bad pattern and you can't expect much good from it. You should not bring up past issues and you turn a cold should shun him if he does(just hang up the phone, close the door etc).

      The best you can do is to focus on good things for yourself and your own prosperity. Your life is about your own happiness. Sort the drug problems out, map your weaknesses and sort them out, start a fitness and diet routine, aim for a career or take some extra courses. Learn a language, or read more books.

      Take care.

      Delete
  175. Going by your theory, as a sociopath I was late to blossom, as it were. I was different from others at 11 or 12, only found out I was a sociopath when I was 14, and only wore a proper mask after I turned 16.

    ReplyDelete
  176. How is it possible to cataglorise people and make a "science" of
    disfunctionality? Aren't people constantly changing? Aren't they
    "works in progress?
    You're reciting your personal experience. Somebody else's might be
    different.
    It's obvious that you're no garden variety sociopath. You don't thrive
    on cruelty. You have humanity and would like to make the world a better place.
    I don't know how sociopaths treat other sociopaths. I do know that
    when they work together as a team, they can cause much halvock.
    Do you antisipate restricting your intimate social interactions to other
    sociopaths who you feel are kindred spirits? Or, would you be
    contented to relate to anyone that you could form a social bond with?
    2070 is a very long time to live a discontented life.

    ReplyDelete
  177. There are the isolated instances where the development of sociopathy in the child is accelerated depending upon the environmental factors contributing to such a pathology as well as said child's IQ. Self awareness influences the traditional motif.

    KC

    ReplyDelete
  178. That just about covers my experience from what I can tell (having recently stepped out of the self-deception cycle from previous years).

    ReplyDelete
  179. Need to emphasize communication early on. This means she has to communicate her confusion at others' emotional responses. Only then will she be able to understand that she is different. If she wants to retain her friendships, she can then learn to modify her behavior. If sociopaths can recognize their PD at a young age, they have a better chance of finding their place in society without causing so much destruction. I wonder how parents and educators can develop strategies to deal with this?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think the key is to identify the personality type in a non pejorative manner. Maybe call them "warriors" and emphasize the positive.

      Delete
  180. Hi there
    I'm the mother of a sociopath. I live in Portugal, Europe, and here, this kind of diagnose is very repulsive to society. As a non-sociopath mother, I love my son, and I´m trying to learn how to help him function in "our" world. I believe is not very smart, yet... I´m not sure that is aware of his condition, and I haven´t been able to talk to him about it. O feel him miserable for faling to achieve wath others seem to expect from him... And I found it hard to believe that someone will became his master and teatch him how to fit... by the time being I´ve been strugling to keep him out of criminal behaviour, because I believe that the penal sistem can´t help in any way in this cases. I completed my degree in law and intend to continue in Forensic Criminal studies... maybe I start teatching sociopaths the skills to survive without breaking the law. But as a mother, wath can I do, in concret, to help or guide my son ?? (he is 21, by the way)... I bought your book today... in english... no translantion to portuguese is available... I wonder why ??

    ReplyDelete
  181. My sister was BPD, NPD and Sociopath. At first glance I couldn't see how the timeline in the article could be applied to her - but that was in part because I was a year younger and wasn't around her when she interacted with friends much.
    But I recall that she was sent home from school for physically fighting another girl around the age of 12 or 13, perhaps that was the age at which she was realizing her prior mode of operating was no longer working? She began to tell me how she manipulated our parents in a glib manner I found shocking when she was around 15 - so perhaps that is baseline manipulation and "charm"? She naturally had many conflicts with her friends so I am not sure if the "when one of her friends hates her" stage happened "on time" because there was such disruption occurring in our lives in late teen years. I do remember that when she was in her early to mid 20s, one of her friends dumped her by saying "I don't like you! You lie too much!" but this information was utterly shocking to her and she told me of this story, with significant displays of angry incredulity as if waiting for me to "side with her" and re-enforce that this could not possibly be true of her, even though my sister often bragged to me of her capacity to be believed when lying no matter how outrageous the lies.
    She is or can be brilliant but I wonder if the other factors in her life have allowed "self awareness" to occur. If anyone cares to respond, I have a question about this aspect. My sister's college prof gave the class an assignment to write something about themselves, describing their personality. My sister was stumped but instead of her usual impatience, she seemed spellbound by the fact that anyone could ask or answer such a question. She asked me "What am I like?" and in her comments it became plain that it really mystified her why others could write a response to this question (particularly since she had always been very persuasive and successful in writing tasks). She looked at me with an expression I am not sure I have ever seen at any other time and asked me "What am I like?" as if she were not the person who had been beating and abusing me since I was 4 years old. While I was able to supply some insights about her activity level (later she'd be diagnosed ADHD) and focus on continuous motion and stimuli and other interests (athletics, cooking etc.) she wasn't quite satisfied with my information but was glad to have any at all to write down - it mattered that she be seen to have this answer even beyond the concerns regarding grades. Might this be her self-aware stage? Or would it more likely be a "late teens I'm different" stage delayed by severe homelife disruptions? Is there a break (before vs after) that one could discern by observing her behavior? I am wondering if she didn't or couldn't make that transition at all - despite her intellect. Might NPD make a person unable to acknowledge damage or "differentness"? I would say that as she got older her social interaction became more constrained - fewer dates then rarely dates, fewer parties and clubbing then rarely goes out. She's in her early 50's now - last saw her 15 years ago when she had one close "friend" who was also an NPD and BPD and then a work social circle, she was always recruiting but couldn't make more "close" friends last very long. Perhaps the BPD makes that next to impossible.

    ReplyDelete
  182. Very interesting post... similar to some occurrences in my life. The realization that I had hit an emotional "fork in the road" occurred in high school. The "adapting" occurred in late high school... The realization that "the days of effortless fitting in that he enjoyed throughout his childhood are over.", occurred some time around 8th grade year...

    The thing I cant seem to understand is why can I relate so much to this article if I'm not a sociopath. Maybe you socios should be more specific with your writing so 14 year olds with aszbergers don't come on this site and self-diagnose themselves.

    After reading on NPD, BPD, and looking at your site for days I still can't understand what makes a sociopath different from an impulsive adult....

    ReplyDelete
  183. At 23 I just feel lost. This sounds correct.

    ReplyDelete
  184. Hi, I'm afraid to say that you are not a sociopath. Self-absorbed maybe but definitely not a sociopath.

    ReplyDelete
  185. Hi, I'm afraid to say that you are not a sociopath. Self-absorbed maybe but definitely not a sociopath.

    ReplyDelete

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