Wednesday, August 29, 2012

Possessions and exploits


I see relationships with people in terms of possessions or exploits.  Like the Greeks and their many words for “love,” I have my own brand of feelings and behaviors for both groups. The former is typically reserved for my family or people that I call friends.  For the possessions, I have a sensation of ownership.  Also gratitude.

The latter is for my seduction or other romantic interests. Seduction has traditionally been an all of nothing endeavor, at least I can't really control it. Seductions are like wildfires, I only get to choose the beginnings and then they take on a life of their own or flame out. So I don't typically do them with people I hope to keep around for longer than a few months. For the exploits, the pleasure is in gaining and exercising influence over them. I am never infatuated with my possessions, but I am for my exploits. And I can feel possessive over my exploits. I pursue them because they give me a thrill. Will I win them over, what might that look like? Success is valuable only to the extent that it is evidence of my power. As one blog reader said, “There really is nothing more amusing or exciting or fun than turning a smart, beautiful, resourceful person into a personal plaything.” It is a game, but I am not necessarily interested in the spoils so much as the maneuvering.

The distinction is well illustrated by the literary character Estella, from Charles Dickens's Great Expectations. Miss Havisham raises Estella to break men’s hearts in a form of vengeance for being jilted at the altar, and Estella willingly does so with everyone but the protagonist Pip, who is in love with Estella. Pip notices that Estella does not actively attempt to seduce him like she does with other men. He complains, and she reprimands him:

"Do you want me then", said Estella, turning suddenly with a fixed and serious, if not angry, look, "to deceive and entrap you?"

"Do you deceive and entrap him, Estella?"

"Yes, and many others—all of them but you."

Like Estella, I do not seduce my possessions because I don’t want to lose respect for them and because they’re unsustainable long-term. As one blog reader wrote:

You find it hard to not objectify people, however it’s important so you just try with a few people that understand who you are. All the rest of the people who don't understand you are fools to you.

I have had a few relationships that have begun as seductions and morphed into something more serious but they almost always end because they never feel like they knew the “real” me.

86 comments:

  1. Replies
    1. were's your god now?
      he has forsaken you
      (words i spoke on my grandfathers deathbed as he was waiting to die )

      Delete
    2. I see relationships with people in terms of possessions or exploits. Like the Greeks and their many words for “love,” I have my own brand of feelings and behaviors for both groups. The former is typically reserved for my family or people that I call friends. For the possessions, I have a sensation of ownership. Also gratitude.

      The latter is for my seduction or other romantic interests. Seduction has traditionally been an all of nothing endeavor, at least I can't really control it. Seductions are like wildfires, I only get to choose the beginnings and then they take on a life of their own or flame out. So I don't typically do them with people I hope to keep around for longer than a few months. For the exploits, the pleasure is in gaining and exercising influence over them.

      Like Estella, I do not seduce my possessions because I don’t want to lose respect for them and because they’re unsustainable long-term.

      I have had a few relationships that have begun as seductions and morphed into something more serious but they almost always end because they never feel like they knew the “real” me.


      Ahhh, wow. I could have written this about myself. I relate to all of this very profoundly.

      Delete
    3. And Anon 12:06, you are a flaming ass. :P

      Delete
    4. only after eating a lot of spicy food

      Delete
    5. Very well said indeed, ME.
      I relate to this as well.

      Seduction games have always provided me with a great narcissistic boost. Tell them what they want to hear: how they are wonderful and special, the only ones that made you feel such love, and promise them the world. In the end, I might like them, might even love them on some level, but it's just a fun game.

      I've even been known to play seduction games now that I'm married. There's nothing quite like it to spice up a marriage. When they think they might be losing you, it can be a great motivator for those that take their spouse for granted. They nearly crawl out of their skin trying to please you.

      Do you still play seduction games now that you are married, Alterego?

      Delete
    6. Anon, 12.06: yeah, it takes real courage to bleat at a dying old man.

      Delete
  2. god is dead but i'm better

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. can i get an AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAmen

      Delete
    2. ^I guess they don't agree with you.

      Delete
  3. UGH, I wanted to be first.
    To ME, personal info, got it.

    ReplyDelete
  4. what is a sociopath if not entertaining?

    ReplyDelete
  5. I recently read "Great Expectations". Excellent read, until the end. I did enjoy the relationship between Estelle and miss havisham. I have noticed that any time I start a new job, meet a new person or are in a new environment I have a certain amount of time. Regular people are like animals, except its a felony to strangle them. They work better in packs, and there is almost always an alpha male and/or female in the herd. Once I introduce myself I am, to say the least, inspiring. Everyone loves me and I am quick to make the top of the pack or herd. But, normally around six months, for all my trying I am usurped. I explained it to my therapist this way, that after an indefinite period of time the personality I create that best suites the environment becomes "cracked", or unusable. People, no matter how stupid, can't put their finger on it, but somehow know I'm not quite right. I don't know how and may never figure it out but over time I begin to give myself away as disingenuous, and its over. I get fired, or quit, or give up. I liked the last line of the comment about how relationships morph, and are harder to control. I struggle with it as well. Just as some dogs can sense cancer, or monkeys can tell when its going to rain (or whatever) regular people who love or sign get well cards are animalistic, very base with instincts. They can tell something is not right with you.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It is all in your own mind and your own reality. It doesn't take 6 mos to find you out and no one ever really thought much of you after you opened your mouth a few times. Your personalities are all 'me, me, me' and becomes unusable quickly. Base instincts are survival instincts which are your 'me, me, me' tendencies. Love is an emotion not an instinct.

      Unfortunately I am married to one and I admit I confused pity for love. He is always unhappy even when acting otherwise. While it appears that he has high self-esteem in truth he has low self-esteem that is where the games of seduction come in. If you feel the perceived fleeting power of influencing someone, it bolsters your esteem. However, deep down inside you, it makes you feel bad and creates the vicious cycle.
      In the long run, people only pity you or hate you, not much bolstering of self esteem in that.

      Delete
  6. what is a narcissist if not amusing?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. According to Dr Hare's 20 point checklist of psychopathic tendencies, narcissism is mentioned in a few forms. Logically then, we are supposed to be narcissistic. To answer your rhetorical question "what...if not amusing", the answer would be "a danger to self and others".

      Delete
  7. Wow ME
    That is one of the most fascinating articles, ever,

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You seem to say something along these lines to a lot of ME's topics, Monica. It's like ME is talking to you or something.

      Delete
    2. He is, Tom. Some people are on your same wavelength and some people are not. I can feel his words and they go deep within me.

      I love words lol

      Delete
    3. It seems to me Wicked, Caesar, and so many others feel the same way. I do find it interesting that the topics flow off the comments and the forum but also seem to stir the conversations as well. It reminds me of something. I wonder what all those people in Jonestown thought of the good reverend?

      Delete
    4. I have so so so many thoughts about Jim Jones. I think about him a lot, nearly daily.

      But yes, you are so on the money. As I said before, this place functions as a cult for many.

      Delete
    5. M"onica August 29, 2012 4:45 PM He is, Tom. Some people are on your same wavelength and some people are not. I can feel his words and they go deep within me. I love words lol"

      Lol, lol, lol. It sure sounds like it! Words penetrate.

      Delete
  8. Question: if one's self destructive impulse is beyond rationality, where an ultimatum is the only recourse, would channeling it into murder for the person perceived to be the cause of one's misery be preferable to suicide?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 1. The people with the PDs cannot change by words, sayings, advice or even desire. The "perceptual error glasses" are glued on their faces. Know that and don't try.

      2. The same goes for you, if you have a PD. Change can happen, but it is more in line with a miracle, than a normal state of affairs i e. you won't change from reading a few books and saying "oohm"

      3. Your own change will be slow, but can be done. You will know you are changing when you true perceptual glasses change. If you don't feel that, you have changed, cosmetically, only.

      4. You will know you have changed when your triggers change. For example, if someone is being an ass and you used to want to kill him, but now you can laugh. Those kind of changes are what I mean. It does no good if your changes make you look good only, but not feel better.

      Delete
    2. thank you h t h a pd !

      *I* would like to give a full report on *my* healing progress right here, right now, but *I* am choosing to refrain.

      Delete
    3. I have the friggin Mal narc on my ass, again. I think if I cut off her head, I will perfect my claw hammer. I am in the process bwhaaaa

      Delete
    4. What do you mean when you say "on my ass"? What is she doing?

      Delete
    5. I am not talking to you, anymore, because you dissed me with Extremity.

      Delete
    6. I'm kind of curious too. Won't you share, Monica?

      Delete
    7. Maybe later. I open my heart to you guys and you diss me. That makes me not want to, anymore.

      Delete
    8. I didn't mean to put you down Monica, I was more going after Kany. And your unkanny ability to see people as ultimate saviours for temporary periods of time, until, that is, you see them as 'dissing' you, at which time they are painted black. Where's the grey in you? No one is perfect, and no one is going to be who you want them to be for you 100% of the time.

      Delete
    9. Ok Medusa
      We are friends :D

      Well, as to the Mal narc, I ripped her head off with the claw hammer and I feel good. In fact, I think I will dedicate a song to myself.

      Delete
    10. 8:59 no it is private and sacred. I just was trying to tell hthapd that I am on the way.

      Delete
    11. To bring the story to an end. I have severed the Mal Narcs head, almost off. It, virtually, is off. She should not mess with me, again, as she knows I CAN go for blood.
      I really don't like to, as I am a gentle person, by nature. However, every person needs a claw hammer option or he will be road kill. I guess my journey with this woman was the re-gaining of my ability to go for the jugular and cut it.

      I feel much better. I feel more whole. This, in essence, was my missing piece. I guess I had to come to SW to find it.
      Love you all <3

      Delete
  9. Isn't "form" as we know, defined by reactions and assertions? If one were to reject or "change" one's reactions constantly as a coping mechanism, the resulting formlessness would collapse from within in a reality articulated by presence.

    ReplyDelete
  10. the answer is in jail

    ReplyDelete
  11. Jail, or your grave. That's the ultimatum. Now which is more interesting?

    ReplyDelete
  12. The dead do not experience misery, that's quite certain.

    ReplyDelete
  13. is mike from breaking bad a sociopath?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. just fuckin google it

      Delete
    2. 1. It's a TV show. No one on TV is a sociopath, they are fiction.

      2. Regardless, he doesn't really show many symptoms. He's always very much in control, never impulsive, never truly angry, extremely loyal.

      3. He's exhibited empathy/love on several occasions, especially with regards to his granddaughter, but with others as well.

      4. He comes off as having more of a Buddhist-type mindset to me. Especially during that one moment of the last episode by the water.

      Delete
  14. "I see relationships with people in terms of possessions or exploits."

    So do I. I think it's probably fairly normal, at least among people like us.

    "For the possessions, I have a sensation of ownership. Also gratitude."

    Same. I know this isn't quite as common, and I imagine you may experience this more often than I do.

    .....

    NB. I left one more reply in yesterday's mini-debate between myself and others.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. you came back when ukan left, are you afraid?

      Delete
    2. Why did Ukan leave?

      Delete
    3. Ukan is here again, people who can't see that need to get a stronger prescription.

      Delete
  15. Psychopathy - a horoscope for cool people

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. PSYCHOPATHS aren't cool they are cold (and charming)

      Delete
  16. VEGITOPATH IN LOVEAugust 29, 2012 at 9:12 AM

    TEEHEEEEEE SO UKAN TEEHEEE DOO YUU SAY YEESSSS TEEHEEE WILL

    YUU BEE MY HUSBAOND TEEHEE




























































































































































    TEEHEEEEEE SO UKAN TEEHEEE DOO YUU SAY YEESSSS TEEHEEE WILL

    YUU BEE MY HUSBAOND TEEHEE



















































































































































































    TEEHEEEEEE SO UKAN TEEHEEE DOO YUU SAY YEESSSS TEEHEEE WILL

    YUU BEE MY HUSBAOND TEEHEE




































































































    TEEHEEEEEE SO UKAN TEEHEEE DOO YUU SAY YEESSSS TEEHEEE WILL

    YUU BEE MY HUSBAOND TEEHEE

    WILL YUU HAVE MAH BABEES TEEHEE





























    TEEHEE

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This VEGITOPATH (who knows nothing of being) IN LOVE smells like a certain 'D'. Lowest functioning psychopath I ever came across online. It's a guy who works at the most childish levels and almost always behind fake persona.

      Delete
  17. VEGITOPATH IN LOVEAugust 29, 2012 at 9:38 AM

    TEEHEEEE ZHAWQ, WILL YUU GIVE DA BRIED (UKAN) AWAY TOO MEE?


    TEEHEE, MEE NO KNO IF HEES DAD CAN MAEK IT SO WEE WOOLD


    LIKE SOMEONE TOO GIVE HEEM AWAY TOO MEE TEEHEE IT'S


    TRADITIONAL TEEHEE







































































    TEEHEEEE ZHAWQ, WILL YUU GIVE DA BRIED (UKAN) AWAY TOO MEE? TEEHEE, MEE NO KNO IF HEES DAD CAN MAEK IT SO WEE WOOLD LIKE SOMEONE TOO GIVE HEEM AWAY TOO MEE TEEHEE IT'S TRADITIONAL TEEHEE





















































































































    TEEHEEEE ZHAWQ, WILL YUU GIVE DA BRIED (UKAN) AWAY TOO MEE? TEEHEE, MEE NO KNO IF HEES DAD CAN MAEK IT SO WEE WOOLD LIKE SOMEONE TOO GIVE HEEM AWAY TOO MEE TEEHEE IT'S TRADITIONAL TEEHEE






































































































































































































    TEEHEEEE ZHAWQ, WILL YUU GIVE DA BRIED (UKAN) AWAY TOO MEE? TEEHEE, MEE NO KNO IF HEES DAD CAN MAEK IT SO WEE WOOLD LIKE SOMEONE TOO GIVE HEEM AWAY TOO MEE TEEHEE IT'S TRADITIONAL TEEHEE









































































































































    TEEHEEEE ZHAWQ, WILL YUU GIVE DA BRIED (UKAN) AWAY TOO MEE? TEEHEE, MEE NO KNO IF HEES DAD CAN MAEK IT SO WEE WOOLD LIKE SOMEONE TOO GIVE HEEM AWAY TOO MEE TEEHEE IT'S TRADITIONAL TEEHEE

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. yeah yeah you know the drill
      ./unzips and whips it out

      Delete
    2. VEGITOPATH IN LOVEAugust 29, 2012 at 9:59 AM

      TEEHEEEEE, YOU MEEN YUU UNZIP YUR BAG AND TAEK OUT

      THE PWENUPTEEALS TEEHEEEEEEE WHEN DOO WEE SIEN THEM

      TEEHEEEEE




























































































































































      TEEHEEEEE, YOU MEEN YUU UNZIP YUR BAG AND TAEK OUT

      THE PWENUPTEEALS TEEHEEEEEEE WHEN DOO WEE SIEN THEM

      TEEHEEEEE

















































































































































































































































































































      TEEHEEEEE, YOU MEEN YUU UNZIP YUR BAG AND TAEK OUT

      THE PWENUPTEEALS TEEHEEEEEEE WHEN DOO WEE SIEN THEM

      TEEHEEEEE

      Delete
    3. Enough of this romantic talk. Take off your pants!

      Delete
    4. I hope your computer crashes........

      Delete
    5. And deprive us of the best love story since Twilight? How cruel you are!!! :(

      Delete
  18. Medusa
    The spammer is you.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. My thoughts exactly.

      Delete
    2. Fuck off, Medusa.

      Delete
    3. It's not Medusa - it is Monica!

      Delete
    4. No way, Monica. She is not immature like that. She can be a flake, but not that kind of a flake ~

      Delete
    5. Whoever it is keeps saying "Mee"... so...

      This happens every time UKan gets beat down.

      It's probably Jason. Who may be the same person as Mee.

      And yes Monica, you have been exactly immature like that, and worse.

      Delete
    6. Anon 1:16

      Monica, I have read 60 posts with the same wording in the past months when people accuse you.

      Delete
    7. Medusa, lets not trade immature exploits, shall we, as you have more than your fair share.

      At any rate, I would be too lazy to spam as that spammer has quite a bit of diligence.

      At any rate, what do you mean, Anon 5:39?

      Delete
  19. you want ketchup with that?

    ReplyDelete
  20. Mee is Monica in the Forum, yes?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. VEGITOPATH MADLY IN LOVEAugust 29, 2012 at 11:45 AM

      TEEEHEEEEE NOOOO, BUT MEE DID ASK MONICA AND MEDUSA TO BEE MY TWO WITNEESSES WHEN WE GET MARREED TEEHEEEEEE BECOZ WE PLANNEEING TO EELOPE TEEHEEE































































































      TEEHEEE

































































































      MEDUSA AND MONEECA. TEEHEE. WITNESSESS. TEEHEE.










































































































      TEEHEEE

      Delete
    2. Bye, Monica

      I wouldn't want to be ye?

      Delete
    3. I love you. Come back so we can go out and stuff...

      Delete
    4. I wanna marry you. but you wont call me.

      Delete
  21. by the looks of it someone 's ready for SHOCKTHERAPY
    (you xan hold a lamp in your hands while i switch on the
    "juce")

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. time to light up like a xmas tree

      Delete
  22. Haha yeah! 69th comment!!!!!! Screw first! Hehe. Sorry. I'm verry immature.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Hey M.E.? I have something to ask you

    ReplyDelete
  24. Doesn't the seduction become really boring after a while? Don't most victims behave pretty similarly? Aren't the relationships with the "possessions" more interesting by comparison? The victims must have some sort of weaknesses that make them vulnerable to the seduction, and the possessions must have enough interest or patience with the sociopath to keep them around and vice-versa. I realize that the sociopath finds a thrill with each new conquest, but I would find it deadly predictable and sad. Interesting to me, because I am not a sociopath nor do I possess a great deal of empathy. I stick to long term relationships because they are more complex, not because it is the "right" thing or because I care so much. Guess there are more grey areas in why we stick in relationships than I thought...

    ReplyDelete
  25. Awwsome! Reminds me of when i dated this chick from NM. Had her family wrapped around my finger... so poetic

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What reminded you about the chick? The article? Pip, Estella or the Aunt? Elaborate.

      Stay away from the chicks in NM BTW.

      Delete

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