Friday, September 6, 2013

Sociopathic altruism?

A female reader who relates to the sociopathic mentality writes about a lot of things that I relate to -- being a disruptive force in my family and provoking people emotionally to manipulate them until I grew older, then started using my people reading and manipulation skills to smooth things over. And now I am the peacemaker/powerbroker in the family:

I've been reading through your blog, and feel a lot of familiarity in your posts and fact section.

I lie constantly and can't control it, I have a grandiose opinion of myself, many admirers both male and female, a chameleon personality, and in the past have been prone to a quick temper--saying intentionally and specifically hurtful words to the people closest to me. As a defense mechanism usually, but I always knew how to hurt someone the most, how to put the ball in my court; how to manipulate and control. It was the worst with my family when I was younger. I've since learned this is rather unacceptable behavior among other people.

I often think to my childhood. My father was an angry man, his own father suffered from PTSD and my father inherited some violent tendencies and anger management problems. The thing is, I'm much smarter than he is--much smarter than most people, and when I was a young powerless little girl and into adolescence...well it grew to be a very dramatic power struggle. Shouting matches, crying, drama, anything to break him out of his rages--sometimes outrageous displays of emotion(though, intentional).

At the current age of 22, I now have the most influence on every member of my family. Thing is, I had to, in order to repair what was so broken and dysfunctional. Get into everybody's head, maybe control them, manipulate a bit sure--but I fixed things, eventually. Seemingly altruistic, but when it comes down to it, isn't altruism also selfishness?

I remember when I was 7 or 8, my grandma died. I'd met her many times, she'd given me plenty as a child. We were at her funeral and my mom was crying, leaning on a church pew. I had no real tears, but I forced myself to bawl that day. I remember thinking simultaneously, while crying and exaggerating my shoulders, that this is what she wanted from me though I had no inner emotional response. I knew instinctively that this would also benefit me. Turns out I've been painting the picture of myself as a very loving, innocent, and caring person for a very long time...

I'm wondering if sociopaths ever use their abilities to altruistic extremes, in which the end result benefits them, as well as everyone else? I also feel like I have the capacity to feel strong feelings, but it's more of an intensity. Romantic relationships can be very intensely positive, and intensely negative. When sleeping with people I either have absolutely no attachment to the person, or an unhealthy obsession.

Found your website and was engrossed. I've always known I was different. When my roommate found out she was pregnant, and told me and my friend--she was crying hysterically and my friend was visibly distressed. I didn't react at all. I had to think first how I was going to react to this, what was appropriate, because I had no immediate response. It didn't affect me at all.

I have consciously on several occasions admitted to myself that my personality can very dramatically change depending on my location, situation, and who I'm surrounded by. I somehow easily win people's trust, respect, and admiration--I seem to cater my approach to each specific individual, and it doesn't take me much time. I always chalked it up to being charismatic and understanding, and I'm not entirely sure if I'm a sociopath who's grown up and figured out how to truly blend in and still get everything I want--or something else.

I've been viewing life from this perspective lately and have realized that I am different, but have been lucky enough to be surrounded by certain influences and experiences growing up which have developed into a great and generous moral code I can abide by. 


There has been much growth and change since my teenage years especially, and even now and this past summer, such constant change. Seriously, thank you for all the work you've put into your site, it's contributed a lot to my growth and helped me navigate my own relationships and the way I am. Understanding. I didn't understand why I am the way I am for so long. 

Can sociopaths be altruistic? I don't know, but they certainly can be very effective at relating and interacting with people. I was listening to a talk from LDS primary children President Rosemary Wixom in which she discusses trying to think like a child in order to better relate and deal with children. It's such an easy concept but so hard for a lot of people to put into practice. Sociopaths very naturally understand and adapt to the needs of the people around them, though, whether people of different ages, cultures, genders, ethnicities, etc. That's obviously going to be a very useful and welcome trait in almost any situation. It's funny, though, what the reader said about not understanding herself -- I think especially younger sociopaths find it easier to understand other people than they understand themselves.

23 comments:

  1. VEGITOPATH MADLY IN LOVE WITH SKYE, MONICA AND UKANSeptember 6, 2013 at 12:09 AM

    SkyeSeptember 4, 2013 at 4:47 PM

    You don't have high reading comprehension do you, Misanthrope?

    As I've mentioned - by now repeatedly - I'm not interested in any label.

    The fact you so desperately want me to want the label of sociopath is sad. Did you feel special having it all to yourself for so long you're scared others will want it too? Don't flatter or work yourself into a tizzy on account of lil' ol' me. I'm not interested. (Amused, but not interested.)

    I aim to improve social skills because I acknowledge their importance in everyday life, that's all. Nothing to panic about as I'm sure everyone has that goal no matter their personality.

    TEEHEE. MEE IN LOVE WITH SKYE WHOOO EES A SOCIOPATH POSER TOO. TEEHEEE MEE LUF HER BECOOZ SHEE EEZ NOT A SOCIOPATH. SHEE EEZ AKSHOEALLY A VEGITOPATH LIEK ME. MEE WANT BABEES WITH MONICA, UKAN AND SKYE TOO. TEEHEE.





























































































    SkyeSeptember 4, 2013 at 4:47 PM

    You don't have high reading comprehension do you, Misanthrope?

    As I've mentioned - by now repeatedly - I'm not interested in any label.

    The fact you so desperately want me to want the label of sociopath is sad. Did you feel special having it all to yourself for so long you're scared others will want it too? Don't flatter or work yourself into a tizzy on account of lil' ol' me. I'm not interested. (Amused, but not interested.)

    I aim to improve social skills because I acknowledge their importance in everyday life, that's all. Nothing to panic about as I'm sure everyone has that goal no matter their personality.

    TEEHEE. MEE IN LOVE WITH SKYE WHOOO EES A SOCIOPATH POSER TOO. TEEHEEE MEE LUF HER BECOOZ SHEE EEZ NOT A SOCIOPATH. SHEE EEZ AKSHOEALLY A VEGITOPATH LIEK ME. MEE WANT BABEES WITH MONICA, UKAN AND SKYE TOO. TEEHEE.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. VEGITOPATH MADLY IN LOVE WITH MONICA, UKAN AND SKYE. TEEHEE.September 6, 2013 at 12:19 AM

      Simply from reading the (part 1) letter, I would suspect her of being more of an emotional retard than a sociopath.

      "I used to torment my best friend thinking it was playful/it didn't bother her and hadn't a clue what I'd done was considered wrong/cruel until junior high when she wrote an explicit poem on how it made her feel...and then directly told me that the poem was about our interactions."

      Either the girl just hasn't been exposed to enough social situations to learn how to react to people in a beneficial way (assuming she is on the spectrum and has manipulative impulses) or most of the scenarios she outlined are the workings of an emotionally retarded (superficial) bully.

      TEEHEE. MEE IN LOVE WITH SKYE WHOOO EES A SOCIOPATH POSER TOO. TEEHEEE MEE LUF HER BECOOZ SHEE EEZ NOT A SOCIOPATH. SHEE EEZ AKSHOEALLY A VEGITOPATH LIEK ME. SHEEE EEZ EMOTIONALLY AND SOCIALLY REETARDED LIEK MEE. TEHEEE. THEREFOUR SHEEE EEZ AKSHOEALLY A FEEMALE VEGITOPATH WHO SHOOLD BEE MARREED TOO A MALE VEGITOPATH LIEK MEE. TEEHEEE.





































































      Simply from reading the (part 1) letter, I would suspect her of being more of an emotional retard than a sociopath.

      "I used to torment my best friend thinking it was playful/it didn't bother her and hadn't a clue what I'd done was considered wrong/cruel until junior high when she wrote an explicit poem on how it made her feel...and then directly told me that the poem was about our interactions."

      Either the girl just hasn't been exposed to enough social situations to learn how to react to people in a beneficial way (assuming she is on the spectrum and has manipulative impulses) or most of the scenarios she outlined are the workings of an emotionally retarded (superficial) bully.

      TEEHEE. MEE IN LOVE WITH SKYE WHOOO EES A SOCIOPATH POSER TOO. TEEHEEE MEE LUF HER BECOOZ SHEE EEZ NOT A SOCIOPATH. SHEE EEZ AKSHOEALLY A VEGITOPATH LIEK ME. SHEEE EEZ EMOTIONALLY AND SOCIALLY REETARDED LIEK MEE. TEHEEE. THEREFOUR SHEEE EEZ AKSHOEALLY A FEEMALE VEGITOPATH WHO SHOOLD BEE MARREED TOO A MALE VEGITOPATH LIEK MEE. TEEHEEE.

      Delete
  2. VEGITOPATH MADLY IN LOVE WITH MONICA, UKAN, AND SKYE. TEEHEE.September 6, 2013 at 12:10 AM

    SkyeSeptember 4, 2013 at 4:47 PM

    You don't have high reading comprehension do you, Misanthrope?

    As I've mentioned - by now repeatedly - I'm not interested in any label.

    The fact you so desperately want me to want the label of sociopath is sad. Did you feel special having it all to yourself for so long you're scared others will want it too? Don't flatter or work yourself into a tizzy on account of lil' ol' me. I'm not interested. (Amused, but not interested.)

    I aim to improve social skills because I acknowledge their importance in everyday life, that's all. Nothing to panic about as I'm sure everyone has that goal no matter their personality.

    TEEHEE. MEE IN LOVE WITH SKYE WHOOO EES A SOCIOPATH POSER TOO. TEEHEEE MEE LUF HER BECOOZ SHEE EEZ NOT A SOCIOPATH. SHEE EEZ AKSHOEALLY A VEGITOPATH LIEK ME. MEE WANT BABEES WITH MONICA, UKAN AND SKYE TOO. TEEHEE.



































































































































    SkyeSeptember 4, 2013 at 4:47 PM

    You don't have high reading comprehension do you, Misanthrope?

    As I've mentioned - by now repeatedly - I'm not interested in any label.

    The fact you so desperately want me to want the label of sociopath is sad. Did you feel special having it all to yourself for so long you're scared others will want it too? Don't flatter or work yourself into a tizzy on account of lil' ol' me. I'm not interested. (Amused, but not interested.)

    I aim to improve social skills because I acknowledge their importance in everyday life, that's all. Nothing to panic about as I'm sure everyone has that goal no matter their personality.

    TEEHEE. MEE IN LOVE WITH SKYE WHOOO EES A SOCIOPATH POSER TOO. TEEHEEE MEE LUF HER BECOOZ SHEE EEZ NOT A SOCIOPATH. SHEE EEZ AKSHOEALLY A VEGITOPATH LIEK ME. MEE WANT BABEES WITH MONICA, UKAN AND SKYE TOO. TEEHEE.

    ReplyDelete
  3. VEGITOPATH MADLY IN LOVE WITH MONICA, UKAN AND SKYE. TEEHEE.September 6, 2013 at 12:20 AM

    Simply from reading the (part 1) letter, I would suspect her of being more of an emotional retard than a sociopath.

    "I used to torment my best friend thinking it was playful/it didn't bother her and hadn't a clue what I'd done was considered wrong/cruel until junior high when she wrote an explicit poem on how it made her feel...and then directly told me that the poem was about our interactions."

    Either the girl just hasn't been exposed to enough social situations to learn how to react to people in a beneficial way (assuming she is on the spectrum and has manipulative impulses) or most of the scenarios she outlined are the workings of an emotionally retarded (superficial) bully.

    TEEHEE. MEE IN LOVE WITH SKYE WHOOO EES A SOCIOPATH POSER TOO. TEEHEEE MEE LUF HER BECOOZ SHEE EEZ NOT A SOCIOPATH. SHEE EEZ AKSHOEALLY A VEGITOPATH LIEK ME. SHEEE EEZ EMOTIONALLY AND SOCIALLY REETARDED LIEK MEE. TEHEEE. THEREFOUR SHEEE EEZ AKSHOEALLY A FEEMALE VEGITOPATH WHO SHOOLD BEE MARREED TOO A MALE
    VEGITOPATH LIEK MEE. TEEHEEE.


















































    Simply from reading the (part 1) letter, I would suspect her of being more of an emotional retard than a sociopath.

    "I used to torment my best friend thinking it was playful/it didn't bother her and hadn't a clue what I'd done was considered wrong/cruel until junior high when she wrote an explicit poem on how it made her feel...and then directly told me that the poem was about our interactions."

    Either the girl just hasn't been exposed to enough social situations to learn how to react to people in a beneficial way (assuming she is on the spectrum and has manipulative impulses) or most of the scenarios she outlined are the workings of an emotionally retarded (superficial) bully.

    TEEHEE. MEE IN LOVE WITH SKYE WHOOO EES A SOCIOPATH POSER TOO. TEEHEEE MEE LUF HER BECOOZ SHEE EEZ NOT A SOCIOPATH. SHEE EEZ AKSHOEALLY A VEGITOPATH LIEK ME. SHEEE EEZ EMOTIONALLY AND SOCIALLY REETARDED LIEK MEE. TEHEEE. THEREFOUR SHEEE EEZ AKSHOEALLY A FEEMALE VEGITOPATH WHO SHOOLD BEE MARREED TOO A MALE VEGITOPATH LIEK MEE. TEEHEEE.

























































    Simply from reading the (part 1) letter, I would suspect her of being more of an emotional retard than a sociopath.

    "I used to torment my best friend thinking it was playful/it didn't bother her and hadn't a clue what I'd done was considered wrong/cruel until junior high when she wrote an explicit poem on how it made her feel...and then directly told me that the poem was about our interactions."

    Either the girl just hasn't been exposed to enough social situations to learn how to react to people in a beneficial way (assuming she is on the spectrum and has manipulative impulses) or most of the scenarios she outlined are the workings of an emotionally retarded (superficial) bully.

    TEEHEE. MEE IN LOVE WITH SKYE WHOOO EES A SOCIOPATH POSER TOO. TEEHEEE MEE LUF HER BECOOZ SHEE EEZ NOT A SOCIOPATH. SHEE EEZ AKSHOEALLY A VEGITOPATH LIEK ME. SHEEE EEZ EMOTIONALLY AND SOCIALLY REETARDED LIEK MEE. TEHEEE. THEREFOUR SHEEE EEZ AKSHOEALLY A FEEMALE VEGITOPATH WHO SHOOLD BEE MARREED TOO A MALE VEGITOPATH LIEK MEE. TEEHEEE.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yay! Vegitopath is back.

      Will Finger be making a comeback too? Or is he still busy getting his ass reamed in prison?

      Delete
  4. I think this might help:
    Narcasist........Malignant Narcassit.........Sociopath......Psychopath.
    A naracist is a spoiled brat. He thinks he is entitled to everything
    he wants. His ego was likely puffed up by his mother or other
    significant caretaker as a child.
    A malignant narcaist is a naracist on steriods. They also have a feeling
    of entitlement but are much more likely to overtly act out: theft,
    promuscity, sparatic voilence etc...Many nazi's were believed to be
    malignant narcasists. Writer Diane Fanning believes that Casey Anthony
    is one.
    Sociopaths are more disiplined. It takes self control and postponement
    of gratification to accomplish anything of value. Also, to attend to
    hygene and present a pleasing exterior. M.E. got this far because she
    was able to do these things. The more the sociopath can exercise self
    control, the more of a "worldly sucess" they can be. What makes them
    dangerous is they can attain positions of influence and affect the lives
    of many "weak" (In the sociopath's viewpoint.) people. Many of society's
    "mover's and shakers" are sociopaths. The more "power mad" they are, the
    more problems they create.
    Psychopaths are the "blue color" sociopaths. They have no problem getting
    "down and dirty," dealing in grime. They're the type that have would
    have no problem going back to the their body dump sites and having sex
    with decaying bodies. They usually have long criminal records and are out
    on parole when they grab their victims. They kill for the sheer thrill
    and the feeling of power they derive from it. Some have charm like Bundy
    some are creeps like Jeffery Dahmer. As a female, you should avoid the
    "Bundy type" of psychopath. It might be exciting, but he'll take you on a
    "Bonnie and Clyde, Natural-Born-Killers" ride that will culminate in
    your abuse or eventual voilent death.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Sociopathic altruism?

    Guys it's simple. You are either altruistic, or you aren't. You can't be both.

    Of course you can say you are some superhero who is so, so great at manipulation that it comes off as not being manipulative.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Being a sociopath does pretty much mean you can't be altruistic, but that doesn't stop you being benevolent.

      You can benevolently manipulate someone into doing something that is beneficial to them (more so than leaving them to their own devices) the fact that you get something out of the exchange too, doesn't mean it wasn't a kind act, though it probably means (if you're a sociopath) that you didn't do it in an altruistic way... - It just means that you need to be smart enough to know people better than they know themselves, have the ability to manipulate them, and work out situations where everyone can win.

      Of course as a sociopath, you know you're doing these things for selfish reasons. But you're also aware of the benefits the manipulated party gets out of the exchange too. (These benefits after all are the things you can throw in their face, "I did this for you, and you're upset, how dare you..." if they ever make accusations about your good nature.) --- So to summarize, you feel good for what you get out of the exchange, you feel good for the power/dominance you get from manipulating, and you some satisfaction out of them getting something good too, which they'll probably love you more for, and be more willing to give you trust in the future.

      Delete
    2. I am inclined to agree with you on this.
      Even when doing something seemingly altruistic, like using one's 'advanced' manipulative skills to keep interactions between people in a household civil, it most probably comes down to the instinct of self-preservation; knowing that it would benefit one as well (not wasting time on arguments or outbursts, and also conserving energy).

      Or knowing that displaying seemingly altruistic acts of kindness will make people more prone to reciprocating them.

      So what might appear to be altruistic to other people is simply good strategy/tactic.

      Delete
    3. Agreed.

      Altruism is, by its very definition, a selfless thing; its dictionary definitions are:

      1: unselfish regard for or devotion to the welfare of others
      2: behavior by an animal that is not beneficial to or may be harmful to itself but that benefits others of its species

      With a sociopath there's always an angle - donating objects is an easy way to rid oneself of them and looks better than just throwing them out; donating money makes one look good and thus might allow them a nice-guy/gal cover for the future, helping a friend endears them to you more and sets up a debt of sorts one can call in later, etc etc.

      So...no, a sociopath would not qualify as being altruistic even when engaging in behaviors that suggest such a thing.

      Delete
    4. Oh please, are you trying to say that it's only sociopaths that do that?

      Most people like to tell themselves pretty little lies to make themselves feel even better. But at the end of the day, almost all seemingly altruistic facts are done because of an "angle".

      I honestly can't think of an altruistic act that does not have some angle. Just because the person doesn't consciously acknowledge it, doesn't mean they were acting purely for the benefit of others.

      The sociopaths in your example are simply a bit more honest.

      Delete
    5. "Oh please, are you trying to say that it's only sociopaths that do that?"

      No. It is the human condition that most people do it to varying degrees. However, sociopaths do only that.

      Sociopaths - as you have said, "more honest" - are just more willing to accept that there is an agenda behind seemingly altruistic behaviour, and can accept it and still at times conform to 'altruistic' behaviour.
      However, I would suspect that the moment a more efficient opportunity for problem solving presents itself (which could happen to be more beneficial to the sociopath and make less of a difference in the lives of others), the person will possibly cease the altruistic route.

      Whereas neurotypicals might not constantly be on the lookout for easier alternatives, or generate pleasure from altruistic acts, or their consciences might prevent them from back-paddling.

      Simply possibilities...

      Delete
  6. you play your games until we normal people realize who we deal with and kick your asses to move on to healthy people, this is the phase you call "I got bored" and you move on to another targte/victim, the reality and the truth is that we run away to build healthy relationships in which hat you get and give is real, not fake

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Do you now? Aren't you the clever one.

      I'm having a little trouble deciphering what you're really trying to say here though.

      So who's dumping who in your case?
      Or is it that "normal people" wise up to the games and cleverly make the unhealthy game player bored so they would move on?
      Then of course these "normal people" move on themselves, but to real, healthy people/relationships?
      Something that those terrible game playing bastards will never have.

      Delete
    2. It is inevitable that a normal person will seek healthy relationships after being with the sociopath. What is the deal with trying to figure out how and why and who left who?

      You know what healthy looks like after you were with a fucking wacko. Is this fucking brain surgery? "Wise up?" How dumb do you have to have been ?

      Delete
    3. i frank;y think it was the other way artounfd in my case.

      My ex did everything he could to bore my fucking ass off. Christ almighty, it felt like a test. B O R I N G to the bone, he was. I have to think that if he knew he was such a boring fuck, he was definitely doing it purposely -so I'd yawn in his face.. In his face i yawned. -so that he could plan it out that it was my idea to leave him.

      But what is the difference? He was still pissed off i was bored. But that's cuz he was more narc than socio.

      Delete
  7. I have blocked someone, asked a person, and wrote to the "fake identity" of a person.

    I can't ignore every single person I speak to online. That is me giving in to them.

    I can't be that fun to fuck with.


    Maria

    ReplyDelete
  8. With some of these comments, one has to undergo a temporary lobectomy of approx. 98% of the lobes of one's brain in order to understand/ interpret the messages (i.o.w. requires a miracle).

    ReplyDelete
  9. What this post describes is perspective taking. Perspective taking is a cognitive process where as empathy is an emotional process. Perspective taking is not unique to sociopaths. A person can engage in perspective taking and empathy simultaneously or separately. Empathy without perspective taking can lead to foolish behavior and perspective taking without empathy can lead to cold and calculated manipulation (notice I say "can" not will). In my opinion the two are best paired and balanced. Empaths can increase their interpersonal effectiveness by developing their capacity to take a perspective without emotional clouding, and if sociopath could develop empathy they would benefit in terms of the fullness of their experience.
    I am a psychologist and it is my belief that for a psychologist to be truly skilled they must be highly developed in their perspective taking capacity as well as in empathic ability. They must also be able to separate and differentiate between the two. This is how I manage to be effective with people (e.g. child rapists) who I find repugnant and at times feel no empathy for at all, as well as those that pull at my heart. Each type of patient poses a specific kind of difficulty as a clinician.
    This blog has helped me to further develop my perspective taking capacity with sociopaths. Being able to put onesself in the mind of a person motivated solely by power has proven to be very useful in my work and personal life.

    ReplyDelete
  10. In all honesty speaking, you graduate school statement of purpose already know in which zero essay or dissertation can easily ever before completely record this heart and soul regarding precisely how energetic along with wise you're.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Are you having a stroke?

      Delete
  11. She has borderline personality disorder, not ASPD. Look it up.

    ReplyDelete

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