Monday, September 16, 2013

Beware of pride

In church I heard someone recite the quote "Usually our criticism of others is not because they have sins, but because their sins are different than ours." I have a theory. If we had to break down the seven deadly sins, I would think that sociopaths are overrepresented for gluttony, lust, sloth, and wrath. Throw in deceit and invasion of other people's personal autonomy, and that is maybe 85% of the bad behavior of sociopaths? Empath seven deadly sins tend to be more greed, envy, and pride; sins come from the very thing that they treasure the most, their personal interconnectedness with others. One can be a glutton, or playboy, or lazabout, or hothead pretty much by oneself. Envy explicitly involves comparing oneself to another, typically in the same culture -- someone that you might interact with regularly. Pride is also a sin of comparison, as LDS President Dieter F. Uchtdorf taught, "for though it usually begins with 'Look how wonderful I am and what great things I have done,' it always seems to end with 'Therefore, I am better than you.'"

[P]ride turns to envy: they look bitterly at those who have better positions, more talents, or greater possessions than they do. They seek to hurt, diminish, and tear down others in a misguided and unworthy attempt at self-elevation. When those they envy stumble or suffer, they secretly cheer.

Similarly, greed depends on what you are exposed to. If you are raised in poverty, greed might mean the desire to eat meat every day. In more affluent cultures, greed might mean the desire for a trophy spouse

I know these are fine distinctions, because aren't sociopaths greedy egocentrics who think they're better than most people? Yes, but they are much less caught up in a desire to maintain their place in the social hierarchy. They don't feel greed because they just go after what they want, so don't feel deprived. They don't feel envy because they think they're better than others. They do feel pride, but they would feel pride no matter what situation they're in and who they're surrounded by -- that is, they don't necessarily need to be around their "lessers" in order to feel "better."

I was thinking about this when I read yet another story about a young person committing suicide due to vicious and unrelenting bullying. She was 12 years old and she jumped to her death after 15 middle-school children texting her such things as "Why are you still alive?” “You’re ugly" and “Can u die please?” The thing is that she wasn't ugly. She was pretty and apparently smart and a cheerleader. How could someone like her become the target of such hate? Apparently there was a dispute over a boy she dated. And maybe the fact that she lived in a mobile home? I wonder why things like this happen, what is the trigger to this seeming mob mentality. Maybe there is a sociopath ringleader, could be. But are all 15 bullies are sociopaths? No, empaths are susceptible to the siren call of bullying, I think more susceptible than sociopaths.

A sociopath uses bullying as a tool. An empath lives bullying as a lifestyle. There is something that is compelling about bullying to empaths of all ages and cultures. How else to preserve the social order and their tenuous place in it? In fact, research supports this. Bullies are neither at the very top or the very bottom of the social hierarchy but just under the top, envying those that are just above them and willing to sell out those under them to finally make it to the coveted top:

In her work videotaping children, she has found that 85 per cent of the time, an act of bullying is witnessed by other children. And 75 per cent of the time those watching are encouraging the bully, Prof. Pepler adds.

53 comments:

  1. Interesting article. Highlights, for me, include:

    "I have a theory. If we had to break down the seven deadly sins, I would think that sociopaths are overrepresented for gluttony, lust, sloth, and wrath. Throw in deceit and invasion of other people's personal autonomy, and that is maybe 85% of the bad behavior of sociopaths? Empath seven deadly sins tend to be more greed, envy, and pride; sins come from the very thing that they treasure the most, their personal interconnectedness with others. One can be a glutton, or playboy, or lazabout, or hothead pretty much by oneself."

    ^I think this is very astute. I connect with very few people in a meaningful way, and this is consistent with my personal experience.

    "They don't feel greed because they just go after what they want, so don't feel deprived. They don't feel envy because they think they're better than others."

    ^I also agree with this

    "A sociopath uses bullying as a tool. An empath lives bullying as a lifestyle."

    ^And possibly this, although I would stipulate that if the psychopath is a criminal deviant, bullying is likely to become a frequently used tool

    *****

    Tonight my parents visited. I have mentioned before on this blog that I think my father is a psychopath, and tonight I actually broached the subject with my mother. We were talking about my dad's brother's diagnosed PDs (schizoid and schizotypal) and I mentioned explicitly that my father likely meets the criteria for ASPD. I described the traits. I explained shallow affect by using personal anecdotes. She opened up and told me about yet more disturbing incidents involving my father as a young man...(Just when I thought I had heard it all, lol)

    "But I love him" - she stated. No matter what he's done. I don't judge him...", and proceeded to excuse the atrocities he committed by appealing to his appalling childhood- a knee-jerk defensive mechanism she has developed through the years. I patiently explained that some of these traits, when properly channelled, can be positive. To that she added:

    "They make great leaders..." I replied that I think the best CEOs are sociopaths. :)

    That word had never been openly spoken among us. My father, naturally, was watching television, oblivious to and uninterested by our conversation.

    It was an interesting evening.

    ******

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  2. I find the strategy (hypothesis) to challenge the idea of all negative traits (sins, vices) comfortably located in the sociopath section of humanity quite attractive. Since it obviously does not work.

    What I am struggling with is what "shallow emotions" may possibly mean, in other words what appropriate or not appropriate feelings, affects, sensations, emotions are beyond social constructs.

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    1. do you think that you have shallow emotions, LeaNder?

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    2. Anonymous, I can't really tell you. I think they are more interior than exterior, I simply do prefer not to parade them, and I do not experience anything as immediately as anger. I am not a very emotional person.

      People seem to be occasionally dissatisfied that I do not express them so they can easily read them, but none of them ever scanned my brain in the process. A psychologist once drove me nuts, by constantly asking me what I was feeling in relation to whatever story. I seem to mainly deal with matters rationally, not emotionally. And most people do not expect anything else from me. I couldn't really tell. How can I possibly judge other people's emotion, apart from the the obviously faked ones, one can witness sometimes? I feel slightly helpless with very, very emotional people, and I do not like emotional pressure.


      No idea why that comes to mind in this context. I denied to ever imitate what felt to me like the highly "emotional intonation" of mainly female British ladies. Not all of them, but a rather vast majority. It really irritated me. Maybe since I am female? Maybe since it felt men did not do it to that extend. You know a stranger's perception of what felt like a heightened emotional intonation to me. Somehow faked to me. Everything else is: Monotone? ;)

      Bottomline, I am not very interested in manipulating others, thus the idea of studying and imitating people's emotions is utterly "other" to me. I guess that is why I would like to understand what the specific "shallow emotions" of a sociopath really mean.

      Does that help? From the top of my head admittedly.

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    3. I feel slightly helpless with very, very emotional people, and I do not like emotional pressure.

      Come to think of it. This may have to do with my father. He sometimes acts irrationally to the point of absurdity. It feels hysterical to me. When I met my parents a while back after a huge meeting with my sisters, concerning decisions about "where they should spend the rest of their lives", which was interesting highly emotional for me. Since it felt simply like switched roles. With my sisters driving in one direction and me pretty convinced that they should stay where they are, since I do not like the idea for retirement homes.

      After they had left, they live nearer than I do and usually appear only for short visits, I had a long conversation with my parents. At one point he blurted out something really, really irrational, in a very emotional way. I can deal with that now. I simply told him it was fake and he immediately returned to normal.

      That wasn't always the case, at one point I stopped talking to him directly at least two years, and that is the only manipulation I vividly remember. I said things meant for his ears that got him really angry, with plausible denial. Of course everyone defended me, claiming this was not what I had "meant", he took it too personally.

      He may well be the ultimate source for the way I handle emotions. That is very, very carefully and only for my own information. A different understanding, something that has to be paid attention to if it shows stronger than usually.

      Interior monologue?

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    4. THank you, LeaNder "Anonymous, I can't really tell you. I think they are more interior than exterior, I simply do prefer not to parade them, and I do not experience anything as immediately as anger."

      I have a similar problem with anger.I get so very angry and stuff it away. The next time i am triggered, i am like a different person.. I think to myself wtf is wrong with this person? -i told them 3 times nicely?? Now i have to go "off with her head off with her head!" I realize maybe i should have scared them with emotion the first time. They feel sideswiped.


      I think my emotions run very very deep but that i am afraid of them. I will skip over them not knowing i am doing that..not til way later. So now i try to get right to the point and feel them. very very hard..And they go away quickly. i will look at them and move on. It makes me feel like i am nothing. And shallow. Oh yes, rational and easy going sure. Till the next time i feel deeply and i get confused and they vanish. IMO is all the stupid medicine i took for years and ofc upbringing.


      I was trying to explain my feelings recently to a pdoc and she told me that my voices in my head are my damage. She said that if i saw a little girl abused come walk over to me that i'd take her to ice cream, not ask her to relive abuse. . She said when i hear my damage talking to myself i should literally ask it to take a walk with me and treat it nicely instead of throwing that part away. She said to love it and care for it like i would a damaged child..


      She said that damaged people are interesting and if they weren't damaged at all, in some way , then they'd be boring. This i rather liked.

      sorry i went on a tangent on my life. You inspired me but i always talk too much anyway.

      I dont think my emotions are shallow ...i think they are fleeting but deep.


      "How can I possibly judge other people's emotion, apart from the the obviously faked ones, one can witness sometimes? I feel slightly helpless with very, very emotional people, and I do not like emotional pressure."

      I have similar reaction, but i understand their emotions. I can placate or describe for them what is must be like..they feel they are understood by me. They want to be with me. I give too much time to them and then i feel very empty.

      I want to find a therapist who specializes in pd work .It is not that i think i have a bonafide pd, it's that i feel the work will maybe help me love myself..i hate my narcissism. t makes me feel i am "wrong" to myself and "bad" to myself .

      .

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    5. "This i rather liked."

      not because of me only.
      I likd hearing it because of my taste in people. I get bored, so it only makes sense that i enjoy people who are interesting/("damaged")..

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    6. I just deleted a longer reply, but saved it.

      i guess I should try to understand you first.

      pdoc= doctor psychology, analyst?

      pd= personal disorder?

      Basically, very shortly. I doubt you can frighten people with emotions. Do you have anger in mind? Not good to express that directly in our culture, at least rarely, very, very few people can deal with that. Nevertheless to deal with it in context in a reflected manner is not a bad thing to do. If you: "stuff it away" it adds up to a really explosive combination inside you, and something comparatively silly can trigger it.

      I may have completely misunderstood, though.

      I wrote something about the pdoc, damage, little girl to be taken care of paragraph, but decided it got too long. I saved it though. What are your "inner voices"? Am I correct that she used this little girl imagery for yourself, meaning you should take care of yourself and not martyr your brain by thinking about old "damages"?

      Yes, the broken is sometimes more beautiful than the purely functioning human automaton - I agree - under one condition "the broken/damaged" has to resist the forces that pull towards complete destruction, in other words self-pity.

      I am not a fan of pills, or big pharmacy other than absolutely necessary. No one will ever convince me to take anything in the larger "mood department".

      I don't have any 12 year olds in mind here. When I considered killing myself I was 17 but then realized there would be a couple of people I better explained it to before. Writing the letters to my mother, my favorite cousin, my bother, a friend made me realize that I really had no good reason, and while it would definitively free me of a live I never asked for to start with, it definitively would leave a couple of people back there feeling guilty for no reason, the wrong ones for that matter.

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    7. I think to myself wtf is wrong with this person? -i told them 3 times nicely?? Now i have to go "off with her head off with her head!"

      try to get as cold as you can, cold as ice. It works for me. It makes them listen, even the ones that usually don't. It conveys anger, and you seemingly don't "loose" control.

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    8. I have done that. The few times I have used it it was extremely effective. Thank you.

      In the moment is the hardest. I usually need some minutes to breathe. I will keep it in mind when I feel the boil.

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    9. Yes pdoc is dr. Of psychiatry. Personality disorder was pd.

      I looking at vaknin on depression for narcissists and I think he pegs me . It was pretty obvious.

      The voices telling myself over and over I am bad. Its like someone is standing behind my head pushing it every 2 seconds. Feels like constant hitting myself. This is why I do not enjoy my own company. If I can focus outward then I dont hear the damage criticizing me. I am sure that this is narcissism self loathing.

      I looked up sthg...yes I know that the internet isnt th b all and ends all, but I saw this and I also winced. It is on covert narcissism being mistaken for introversion. It also rang true. I will leave the url next post.

      Yes I believe she wants me not to reflect on the damage with mourning for myself. I thought that I was supposed to get in touch with my past self and empathize with it so that I could start to empathize better with others. I also sometimes cannot believe that I am so fuckdd up...all these yesrs thinking I was depressed and it was all chemical, when it is NOT. I was brought up to treat myself with anger. This makes me so sad and mad. I couldnot explain to her.

      I mourn the person that I was before my personality settled into this. It is a self pity that I thought would help me empathize with others. I thought that if f I can feel bad for myself and not be mad at myself I would be better to myself and be more empathic to others. I thought i should have more than cognitive empathy. I didnt explain this to the dr. But she thinks that I should make friends wiith the part of myself that is throwing stones at me and treat that part with kindness because that psrt was the injured part. She said if that part is the injured part then it like an abused little girl I should shuffle out the door to icecream. So her attention goes to someplace positive and she forgets about saying horrible things to me.

      I have mood disorder. I have always been medicated. I have been in the hospital



      cannot stop the tears. It is like my father and I hate him for his crying for himself.

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    10. It is a stupid article with a self test ....
      And i just relooked at the test and I believe my answers today would be a bit different. 23 signs you are a covert narc.

      I am so sorry to sound like I am whiney. I just thought there has to be someone here who understands this,

      I am afraid you are wrong. I think you can scare people with emotions. I think emotions are highly manipulative tools. And i think the icy thing you bring up is very scary. It is emotion boiling under the surface...white rage. Very scary.

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    11. Anonymous, you have to find your own way to handle it. Nowadays I usually take the advise, I once got from an actor most of the time. Anger gives you energy. The question is ultimately how to use it wisely. Mostly I simply move, ride my bike, if I can and think about it, if it deserves if not I simply move. In any case I have to be alone. If I decide it deserves, I act as soon as possible.

      The furthest I ever got to inner voices talking to me, was when I once allowed myself to descend into depression. At the point I was about to hit ground, figuratively speaking, something peculiar happened. It was more a thought but it was also something visual. Something ascended out of me, looking down on me from above. And "it" or "me" started talking: Oh, you surely must be the most unfortunate person in the world. Are you enjoying this excise?

      A part of me was somewhere above looking down on me and ridiculing me. It also made me aware that this "voice" was absolutely right.

      Besides that the only time I experienced some type of subconscious communication or "voice/content" was in a alp I triggered while I experimented with an obscure method in psychotherapy using automatic writing employed by Anita Muhl. A prof had warned me, he told me, I would not be able to deal with subconscious content without professional help. Thus it was a dangerous curiosity.

      In any case, my subconsciousness did not communicate with me in decipherable automatic writing. ;) But the pressure that I put on it to talk to me, triggered an alp, which basically had the symbolism of one of the earlier articles M.E. links to above. I had tried to make my subconsciousness write real hard the night before. ( I worked on Surrealism, automatic writing in combination with Freud's theories at the time). Besides my „subconsciouness“ always seems to send me alps if I am, from its more full perception capacities, maybe, doing something that is not good for myself.

      No idea what exactly triggered the peculiar state or the entering of a diffuse mixture of inner reality and the real out there. Was it because of the warning? It took me two weeks to get my feet firmly back on the ground into "the normal" reality, something inside insisted I took the alp at face level. That I had indeed repressed the memory of having killed someone, after all my dream had to be about me, if I was not using Jung's approach, thus I couldn't have been an onlooker, (the classical German bystander, which I was in the dream: I was not clutching a stone but was more in the back watching matters happen, a group of people circling around someone killing him or her.

      During the two weeks part of my inner reality had heavily entered my "real" world. It was a peculiar state. I finally made the specific semi-state go away by this final interpretation, that I had in fact tried to kill the father in me - Success, conformity ... But that was not the first step, the first step in interpretation was that it somehow alluded to the death of a friend, who had killed himself a couple of years earlier. And I wondered if it made me feel somewhat guilty. Fact is though, no one would have been able to "help him", he would have pulled me down into his habits. He died from a Heroin overdosis.

      I deal with more complex and not so easy to read emotions the same way as I deal with dreams. They usually arise when I am confronted with completely new situations. In dream I try to interpret the images in the reality I look closely at the context.

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    12. Huh.

      That is heavy stuff. Thabk you for sharing that. It is a surreal thing to see yourself from above , writhing on the floor and watching yourself suffer at your own psyche's hands. I have felt that same kind of thing.

      If I click on the first link you out uo there nothing happens. Will try again later.

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    13. That is heavy stuff.

      Reminds me of: The German are heavy, somewhat. A phrase I overheard from people having just watched a Herzog movie in London. Yes, Herzog is a bit crazy, but heavy? He even offered the "the Sublime/Almighty" a contract if he would not let a French movie historian he liked a lot die. And he kept his promise.

      The experience wasn't surreal at all, by the way. But fascinating nevertheless. It was in fact a wise advise, and I never ever after surrendered to the temptations again to pity myself.

      Mind you, I don't know if your troubles are really so serious that you have to depend on pills? Or on a series of "professional helpers" to tell you who you are. Nothing negative about that, if it is your own choice. It wasn't mine ever anyway.

      Link: Anita Muhl, Automatic Writing I think the book was originally written in 1930. I hate Muhl for her paragraph on epilepsy in her ABC in criminology, by the way. But that one was interesting at the time and in the specific context I was working on.

      I found her book on automatic writing in the Parapsychological Institute in Freiburg, Germany, at the time. Which in fact houses such a peculiar institute. The then head handed it to me with exactly the same phrase about the French Surrealists, he had used in his own thesis a couple of decades earlier, where it got a passing side note. Odd experience.

      I would warn you, I talked to an elder female psychologist about a related matter: Hypnosis, which theoretically is related, a supposedly direct access to subconscious content, and to me our emotions are related to it, if they are not simply trained behavior. (Freud objected to being hypnotized himself, but his theory of the subconsciousness wouldn't have been possible without it) Back to the old lady she used hypnosis among other things, but she said it rarely ever brought up anything useful. She told me one story where it worked. There is also only one story in the Anita Muhl book, I will never forget and I have no idea if it invented.

      The lady was pretty old when I met her, in any case, she
      told me one of her few successes with hypnosis. Her patient was a man, who as a child was in Poland during the German attack. Under hypnosis all that surfaced was a word, in Polish. He had never and still did not understand Polish. They had to research it and realized that he in fact must have felt the fear, chaos and confusion, and the word used by pretty much everyone around, but was not able to understand what was going on. And no one cared to explain it to the kid. It ultimately turned out to be the source of all of his troubles and a deep basic fear that could not be explained by anything out there in the reality.

      Unfortunately for most of us there is nothing similarly "heavy" to uncover, if we like it or not.;) Our lives was much less "interesting", if that is the way to put it. But we always can of course simply accept the offers of another mediocre psychoanalyst with his respective tools and pills and simply accept to be put into whatever box he wants to put us in. What is in your diagnosis, borderline?

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    14. The voices telling myself over and over I am bad. Its like someone is standing behind my head pushing it every 2 seconds. Feels like constant hitting myself. This is why I do not enjoy my own company. If I can focus outward then I dont hear the damage criticizing me. I am sure that this is narcissism self loathing.

      Anon, how old are you? I am the worst person to give you advise. For one reason, I always enjoyed to be on my own. I always loved reading. That can distract too.

      What or who got you hospitalized to start with?

      I can follow you this far: I hate you all, but most of all I hate myself. That was the sentence running through my head at the time of my biggest juvenile "trauma". But strictly this "self hate" was also something that was triggered by derogatory remarks, really rather primitive insults by my father and my principal, who was also my English teacher. Never spoke a word English beyond: Oh, yes, very well. And constantly recounted the same type stupid and prejudiced joke about "the British".

      Outwardly, I learned to freeze at that point, since I experienced it as a power struggle. I didn't want to give them the pleasure to see any type of reaction in my face. I didn't want them to enjoy any result. Which made my principal even more angry, so he had to look for other manipulative tools to harm me.

      But as the sentence on my mind and the fact that I seriously considered killing myself at one point, these insults no matter how primitive, really primitive, and thus really not deserving any type of reaction, worked on me somehow.

      Have you ever tried to understand, why this "part of yourself" is doing this to you? Have you ever tried to look at your life at least to the part you remember? What comes to your mind when you reflect on who and when you were insulted and for what reason. Is it possible to try to ask this part, why it thinks you are bad? Could you try to concentrate on people that told you, you were bad or evil or insulted you for that matter, when it starts?

      What is your fear about?


      I was brought up to treat myself with anger. This makes me so sad and mad. I could not explain to her.

      Brought up to treat yourself with anger? What could that possibly mean?

      Keep in mind you are doing this to yourself. I am not sure if I would try to take that "insulter" to have an ice cream. I would consider him my enemy. How about playing with it, and ridicule it? Ask it what his problem is?

      I remember another "actor" now. An very, very strong inner scream.

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    15. And constantly recounted the same type stupid and prejudiced joke about "the British".

      Interesting error. It were actually only two jokes, one I forget, the other was about "the British" always sending you in the wrong direction if you ask them for a street. It was supposed to be funny. I can assure you that the same thing can happen to you in Germany, quite possibly all over the world. I encountered it again in my studies of linguistics, that's why I remember it. The other was about "the British" too.

      We once had a student from Britain and he asked me, does he speak English at all? Interestingly while he was there, the principal never told his two jokes.

      What do you think, was he an "sadistic empath"?

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    16. I was in full blown mania with psychotic and paranoid features, very much like a schizophrenic but i have a diagnosis of bipolar I. I admitted myself 2x. I have a chemical imbalance and require a mood stabilizer or else it's one flew over the cookoo's nest for me

      I wrote so much more but deleted. I am so sorry, but it is very tough to tell you how i think. it is painful. But anger turned inward. Very critical upbringing, like being called dumb and careless eight ways to sunday, whatever the expression, while also being praised for perfect stuff . ANd i did not think i was worthy of having a parent stay to take care of me/love me.

      Yes, they ARE my voice now. So to tell the voice to fuck off just piles on critique of my self. THat is what i tried to do. But it can get circular and beat me more. I can't put one more pile of weight to squash me. i need to be sympathetic to me and accept all of me. I am all i have. Taking the kid to icecream isn't a reward. It is distraction from negativity, that's all.

      Ofc i dont think these things now. They are notions always lurking underneath.

      THank you for suggesting hypnosis :)

      Did you say what is your personality? You sound a bit unemotional and sensitive at the very same time. Or the reverse.

      I am in my 40 and kind of just getting the hang of living with my personality. i would say it is closer to a borderline's but mild. i am under the radar because my criteria is not pronounced/obvious.

      I am sorry that i cannot comment on some of the stuff you talk about. It is over my head.

      Are you male or female. Did you say?

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    17. I was in full blown mania with psychotic and paranoid features, very much like a schizophrenic but i have a diagnosis of bipolar I. I admitted myself 2x. I have a chemical imbalance and require a mood stabilizer or else it's one flew over the cookoo's nest for me

      I am female and 63, I live with a friend, an artist, who conveniently does the cooking and shopping. I was never married and never had kids.

      Can you tell me more about what really happened? What made you admit yourself? Look, you are anonymous. What do you know about the chemical imbalance? How long do you take a mood stabilizer and what exactly?

      bipolar used to be called manic - depressive. I mentioned a friend somewhere. Female too. She was institutionalized by her father, whom she adored by the way. But he never ever gave her the acceptance she needed. She later at one point had a relation with an old emeritus professor, about twice her age, ultimately the father that never accepted her. It was an absolutely strange story to watch the type of relationship.

      But during her stay in the hospital, on a closed ward, by the way, she at one point realized that if she smiled and acted nice, she got the feedback from "the professionals" there that she probably was feeling better, and maybe could leave soon. She realized this after she had painted a picture she liked. They didn't notice. From that point on she deliberately played funny and nice and smiled all the time. When I met her, that feature had become part of her. She always acted nice and funny with people, if she was sad she was gone, and allowed nobody to see her in her deep depression, and it could happen in a split second. Suddenly she was gone. I knew where she was. The interesting story was. Not one of the people she had just entertained missed her or wondered were she was.

      Are you feeling better if you are among people, since they give you the acceptance you cannot give yourself? What are you doing with your friends?

      If I were you, I would try to understand the dynamics of self-punishment. It is a completely new subject for me. I never thought of it, or encountered it anywhere.

      Let's read this.

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    18. No no i was not meant to suffer. That is the furthest thing in my head. But outside sources for esteem like being good at my job, having friends appreciate me, enjoying hobbies..getting to a place i can look and say i worked hard for something and it paid off..these are ways i cope. I battle perfectionism and it holds me back. But i do not want to talk about this anymore. Its upsetting. I am not getting off on wallowing or punishing myself believe me.

      It is very difficult for me to soothe but once i am there i am fine. I need to go to work/ It is nice talking to you . I have questions for you, but later. Bye for now.

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    19. where was she?

      LeaNder i would like to show you a 2 documentaries about being bipolar. This on e is pretty dry http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju6KRHtFBeo

      Actor, Stephen Fry, has done a lovely documentary but i find his interviews with celebrities offputting. It is not a glamorous illness. However, it is well done and i will put it here, too. THis is part 2 . Part one is good, but i like this part better.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju6KRHtFBeo


      I think you are conscientious and generous. But that still doesn't mean you have empathy. why do you come here to sw? are you a sociopath?

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    20. Am I a psychopath? No, I don't think so. On the other hand, as you may have noticed, I am not a fan of labels. I am just a curious nitwit, and once my interest is satisfied, I will move on to a new subject or return to old ones.

      Let's return for a second to your response to coldness as a result of anger. Look it is a mental process, freezing emotions only outwards and only to the person that seeks a specific emotional response, and it is also a rare incident. It's ultimately a signal: STOP, this far, but not one step further. It's self-preservation. It could happen to you, if you told me a rumor about a colleague's bed stories. Yes, sometimes people even seek an advantage this way. So what? It's their life, not mine. I am slightly hesitant about people talking negatively about others behind their back, if they are not able to tell it to their face and if I cannot connect with their "concern". This may well be related to the fact that my father was very isolated in our family. There was lots of talk about him, 100% negative, but no one ever confronted him directly. Yes, he he was a the family tyrant, spending most of his life on his job, ultimately bringing back the money. Enormously harming my brother. My brother is well, but he had to endure a lot. I guess that but also other things concerning me ultimately triggered my rebellion. ...

      I am willing to pay the consequences in the above rumor scenario. I am aware I am expected to be interested. Especially the ones that use it extensively, don't like it if you aren't, and psychopath or none they occasionally try to seek revenge with manipulation but only if there are other factors involved.

      I am very, very careful with charmers.

      And I always ask myself what special cores my anger could have at times, what could be the ultimate origin other words, that could be present too.

      I'll take a look at the videos. Be careful with drugs, I noticed they are even experimenting with pills used for breast cancer. Be aware of what you do to your body by taking them over long periods of time. The much better way, although also the more hard one is to loose fear and get interested in what exactly is the origin of all this.

      But I am no psychologist.

      Take care.

      Delete
    21. Thanks for your help.

      I had to go back and reread this
      Have you ever tried to understand, why this "part of yourself" is doing this to you? Have you ever tried to look at your life at least to the part you remember? What comes to your mind when you reflect on who and when you were insulted and for what reason. Is it possible to try to ask this part, why it thinks you are bad? Could you try to concentrate on people that told you, you were bad or evil or insulted you for that matter, when it starts?

      Yes to all the above.

      What is your fear about?
      I understand what it is about,

      Thank you for ypour avise on medicine .I am extremely educated consumer of medicines for a loooong time. I hate them too, with their fucked up side effects. we have become a nation of pill takers. I am just an unlucky one who cannot live without sthg. (actually i am one of the lucky ones, in that there is medicine to cure me -see how a change in perspective helps!) Medicine is overused though, and it masks emotions. Too much can zombify you. and i dont believe children, whose little brains are forming should be on them unless they are in dire straights.

      I am not sure i am understanding all you say when you talk about coldness and anger but i think i got a basic gist. Every bit of input around here is useful for me.

      Thank you for sharing about your life. BTW, since you asked i will tell you. My frst mania erupted originally from stress. People who are predisposed to bipolar disorder have breakouts from stress. The straw was a blow to my identity and ego, but there would not have been a straw had i not been acting like an asshole from all the stress. I was pushed way way too far beyond my capabilities and stopped sleeping. it was too late to know where i was headed.


      You take care too. I hope that you are having a nice life. You sound nice.

      You should be careful with charmers. -I am too.
      ( Irl, i am quite charming. Maybe i am like your friend. idk really. but i am harmless.)

      Have a lovely day.

      Delete
    22. The video you linked to, I find not very interesting, you posted it twice. Did you notice?


      But Stephan Fry's
      I find very much so.

      It basically reminded me that my conviction is that we could at least theoretically give a specific person, the wrong advise thoughtlessly. Granted you are not simply playing with me, my silly little responses could be dangerous for you, you could be very suggestive and easily influenced.

      But do we have really reliable antennae for that? In spite of the emotions out there we face or mirror? I think fear can be very "irrational" in certain contexts, it could occasionally be also whatever type of self-protection concerning something much too hard to handle.

      Conny's story at the end reminds me of something else though.

      I did a little self-experiment in the "paranoia department", by entering a certain space in the post 911 world. I have arrived at a conclusion concerning myself, by watching carefully what I observed about the state.

      She also reminds me of a pattern I observed in a seriously bulimic friend, extremely so. When I picked her up for a date, it took hours till she was made up and ready for whatever, theater, a party, a festival. She always dressed herself in a very, very sexy way, but if you believe it or not, she also complained when she received a specific type of attention after.

      Now, what I find interesting in Conny's story, I know this is superficial, since I do not know much about her apart from the symptoms, she talks about her fears, her paranoia, the feeling of people observing her, and then about the frozen state, which obviously is the exact opposite. She makes sure she receive the attention that the paranoia suggest but which is much less easy to grasp, and it embarrasses her. I find this very, very odd. And if I would be her, I would start to understand the connection of these two polar events. I can easily enter a paranoid state out there and leave it again. It's pretty easy really in a city. I also do not really fear observations, apart maybe when I am passing a red light with my bike with no traffic far and wide. It's actually expensive. But the fine never makes me stop it. Now I could even get points, and theoretically at least, at one point loose my driving license.

      I know, I know I could have kept the (a different friend's) story out here, but I later observed there is a pattern.

      Besides I have at one point started to look at what I acted out, instead of arriving at a specific decision, which ultimate got me a result my "rational side" would never have accepted, for whatever reason. And I realized I had to deal with these matters differently. Look at some of "my principles".

      Good bye, was a pleasure to chat with you. Now I'll look for part two.

      Delete
    23. Part 1
      I gave you part 2. ha I knew i was posting it 2x and thought i deleted one. maybe i put it there 3x, .

      I didnt know which info you'd be receptive to, so i figured i would give you a dry, boring, factual video in addition to Fry. It is hard to tell whether people are interested in facts or humanity here. Some people do not care to see people emoting. I did not know which type you were.

      Nobody cares if you gossip here. I did and then i got amazing incite and learned why i would bother with a certain type of person. It did have to do with me, yes,....but i talked a great deal abt a friend. I did not feel it was inappropriate here.

      Gossip away! Nobody knows your friend. and monica said gossip is universal,

      Its ok with me to cut this thread. Please do not feel that bec i have abandonment problems that i will be insulted.

      Have a good night. I will call myself "Gretchen" if i see you on another thread.



      Delete
    24. o i see what i did ...i did not give you the stephan fry thing at all. thanks for finding it ..and putting the link.

      Delete
    25. Gretchen is fine with me, easy to keep in mind. The Fry video was highly interesting. None of the features, people talk about were really completely unfamiliar to me. I even know some of the features.


      Only one thing: I didn't like the mother of the two boys. Overreacting on something she does not even remember? Well, apparently her son did. And apparently very, very heavily so. I also liked his idea of simply going for a walk in the school disaster that got him suspended from school. He instinctively knows what he should best do, but the rules forbid it. ... Well, yes, now he has to swallow a whole medical dispensary, so his mother does not need to understand what exactly in going on in her child, why he remembers, something she does not even consider worthwhile, or something she has forgotten. Poor kids. I wonder what happens to them.

      Delete
    26. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    27. Yeah well you can always find something not to like.

      Those shitty boys are lucky they have their shitty mom to pick up their shitty little genetically defective asses at their shitty school when something shitty happens.

      Delete
  3. How likely are sociopaths to commit suicide? Is pride a good remedy? I have never understood killing oneself over killing the source of discomfort or problem.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You have overlap of different things mixed in...i dont believe in a pure sociopath. I think it would not be their sociopathic traits that brought them to suicide.

      if you saw the movie "girl interrupted" you see the scene winona rider tells jolie she is nothing inside, and you see jolir freak out ? I think that is pre suicidal behaviour

      But i see her as a poseur and narcissist. Did she also have bpd? It was different than winona rider's.. I saw sociopathic crossover. Sure it is a movie. but it might anger a sociopath when someone tells them straight up they are vacant inside. It might feel terrible

      Maybe i am confusing a narcissist with a sociopath tho.

      Delete
    2. If someone tells someone that they are vacant, and that person gets upset about it, that person cannot be vacant.

      Delete
    3. That girl interrupted scene was always a bit of an enigma to me. Angelina Jolie had just mindf---ed another girl in a way that resulted in the other girls suicide, much to the horror of Winona Ryder's character. But part of the fun seemed to be eliciting Ryder's shocked horror- where most people would conceal outright predatory behavior, Jolie reveled in it. I think it was because it was ultimately about showing Ryder who was boss. When Ryder turned the table on her and called her vacant, my guess is that the existential panic had far less to do with the insult itself and more to do with the Jolie character realizing that she had lost control of her favorite acolyte, who now put her in the man down position.

      Delete
    4. I saw the movie. I agree, a pure sociopath wouldn't likely let someone's opinion to override their own, especially about themselves. Jolie's reaction seems based on her insecurities and anxieties. Isn't one distinction of sociopathy a general lack of fear? With the power shift, it would seem more likely that Jolie would have just fought back, somehow. There would be no way she would let them "win" if she was sociopathic, right?

      Delete
    5. Ha. Yes you are prob right. Existential panic is a good way to describe her in that moment.
      She does not win if her favorite acolyte is not there for her...so then was rider her narcissistic supply?

      Chris I think one can have lack of fear and also feel defeated.

      Delete
    6. There is another movie with jolie and ethan hawke is her stalker psycho who seduces her. Also, in the end she tells him that his new personality is sthg but he is vacant. He says "now why would you say a thing like that"..she pushed his button.

      Delete
    7. "Taking lives " is the movie.

      Delete
    8. Hmm, does narcissism require people to validate itself?

      Delete
    9. If you are asking if a narcissist has to be in touch with the self loathing pt of his/herself in some way to feel valid, then I think yes.

      Is thatyour question or are you treating" narcissism" as the subject. If the latter I cannot understand without an example. Hello and good morning chris pearson.

      Delete
    10. Jolie's reaction seems based on her insecurities and anxieties.

      I read the much longer summary on German wikipedia. In the short English version I didn't really understand. Sounds like a politically correct version of Kookoo's Nest? Is that why its setting is the 60s? German critiques are devastating. One writes its a Kookoo's nest remake in a girl boarding school setting without the debts of its characters. Most mention stereotypes, cardboard characters. The only thing that seems to have saved the movie, one writes are the two main actors. It obviously is for people with not the slightest idea about these type of institutions, or the reality behind the labels, or the type of psychiatry or some it's leading "lights" in the sixties . ...

      But if I get a chance, I'll take a look.

      There you go, I hope no one feels insulted. ;)

      Delete
    11. I havent seen coocoos nest all the way through and in a long while.

      I think saying it is the female version is a blanket statement. Coocoo was a peak inside institutionalism and it featured a sociopathic nurse ... girl interrupted was a peak inside bpd.

      The was a lot more taboo in the 60s abt institutions. There is a different flavour in g I.

      Delete
    12. Does narcissism require an audience? Do there need to be subjects they must dominate? Could a narcissist remain unidentified as such, were they to be isolated, but then reveal themselves once put into a social dynamic again?

      Delete
  4. Pathological pride is a precarious emotional place to exist in. The need to constantly feel superior requires an external locus of control rather than a more stable self concept that is founded on the successful execution of self chosen values.

    ReplyDelete
  5. "Prestige" is important for hollow-folks. Perverted pride? Hollow folks often get "wind up" by prestige-matters, "mini-popes" that just will not tolerate disobedience or challenges, even if the issue is silly (like who´s the moderator in some obscure forum for geeks). This will make bad papa Croc emerge. But that´s their nature! Some become turd-kings. Others "blossom" into magnificent power-oozing shape-shifters, kind of chameleon-tigers in man-shape..

    ReplyDelete
  6. Interesting article. Quiet around here lately. Bullying has many origins and being a sociopath is rarely one of them. Often its a product of abuse. A child is bullied at home so they learn to take it out on other children in order to regain a sense of their own power so as to not feel so helpless themselves.


    I find this interesting as well... " 'Look how wonderful I am and what great things I have done,' it always seems to end with 'Therefore, I am better than you.'"

    Except with Borderline it ends with 'Therefore, please love me." So it's not really pride at all, is it.

    I don't know how I would qualify our sins. Can you really call them sins if you don't feel bad about them and never choose to repent?

    Wrath for sure. Most people would say Lust, but lust is deceptive. Envy. Always wanting what is just out of reach, wanting what we think we don't have.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thank you haven. Im so glad you are still around here!

      Delete
  7. People love to not think, and just be. Thats the problem. Even when they are capable of analyzing, and/or aware of the dynamics happening around them, they will sit back and enjoy the bullshit definitions of theyr social life and people around them.

    When debated with them in a setting that promototes more thinking, they for the most part do not fall off in class. But there is a big difference between discovering a revelation, and learning that revelation from someone else.

    The are surely not dumb, but they are dumber.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Some call it a penis. I call it a PISSNIS. I have a pissnis.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Replies
    1. Good job for spamming this blog. It's what its author gets for lying about empaths, who aren't bullies.

      Delete

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