Sunday, April 24, 2016

Just a dick?

In what has become an impromptu series of "Sociopath, or just _____?" (e.g., sociopath, or just puberty? Sociopath, or just smart? Sociopath, or just depression? Etc., a reader wonders:

I'm well aware you get hundreds of emails from people who are desperate to become sociopaths, so they tell you how unfeeling they are and how they don't care about anybody. And after reading your blog for over a year a question began to fester in the back of my brain and I crave an answer. Why would people, at the slightest lack of empathy, jump to the conclusion that they are a sociopath? And the reason i bring this up is, i used to feel like them. At some point in my life i just decided, i love to hurt people, so i must be a sociopath. I now realize that i'm just a douche. I still enjoy seeing people crumble before me when i attack all of their insecurities at once, but I'm not a sociopath or a psychopath. But what i'm confused by is, why is it so hard for people to come to the realization that they are just dicks?

M.E.:

I think you may be confusing lack of empathy with sadism. Some people don't care about other people, but they have perfectly intact empathy. Other people know that they don't connect with people, and it looks (internally) and feels a lot more like what I would imagine autism would feel like. Their brain is not capable of processing empathy the most people's brains (apparently) do. They can pretend that those empathy and emotional connections things are going on, in fact, they can pretend so well that no one else suspects what's really going on.

Although there's certainly bound to be overlap between empathy-impaired people and dicks, a diminished capacity for empathy is different and doesn't necessarily lead to enjoying exploiting people, or even just taking a special pleasure in your own agenda at others expense. So which are you? 

234 comments:

  1. Replies
    1. Are people "desperate to become sociopaths"???

      ~Vegas

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    2. PS-

      I appreciate that the OP can call themselves a "douche", and a "dick"-I like it when people are "real"...

      ~Vegas

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    3. I've only seen 2 sociopaths replying on this site, one psychopath, and ZERO actual empaths. The rest are losers with nothing better to do with their lives. Just because a normal person who is capable of experiencing empathy crosses your path, they are NOT empaths. A REAL empath can feel your innards, and also INPLANT feelings inside you without your consent. The real empath is the real sociopath's natural enemy. The REAL empath can turn any sociopath into a vegetable within a 30 second attack...obviously it culminates into death if the target has a heart condition.

      It has been interesting to watch this collection of impertinent children throw socks at each other. I wonder if any one of these toddlers will ever get the danger they're in when they meet a real empath; this includes M.E. It's always been a sure bet that they, like Dorian at his image, will never see us coming.

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    4. I actually agree with much of what's said here, even if the tone is more sociopathic than empathic. The gist of what you said is right on. A psycho is all fake with no weight and thus no spine. That's why they resort to deception and a self-obsessed delusion.

      People think their colorful lives and their material goods, their goodies and talents they show off earn them genuine respect or care. It's all fake. The people who really care about you are the ones you are most turned off by. It's sad but most people will go on living their delusional lives until the fun times are over. Then they wish they had made more wiser decisions.

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    5. Real empaths are only touchy-feely with innocents they encounter. We love nothing more than to place rays of sunshine in just about everything. But sociopaths are persona non grata. It's imperative and instinctual to take them out. It's either them, or the multitude of innocent people they destroy. In order to receive love, one must give it and earn it. Real empaths have no problem taking out those devoid of a conscience and aim only to harm others. I cannot give mercy to anyone who is merciless. It's the way of things... Unfortunately.

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    6. Lol I like this anonymous. Just be careful don't turn into an "empathic psycho." I believe God does the job of putting the real psychos in their place. Those who love scheming are themselves part of His scheme. A real empath does counter socios but immediately turning to aggression is dangerous - you risk targeting the wrong person at times.

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  2. NM-

    I hope everything is ok, with you and your SO.:)

    Today, I thought I'd share the song I used for my 1st dance song, at my wedding...

    Goo Goo Dolls

    Iris

    ~Vegas

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    1. Here are the lyrics (sorry XK):

      And I'd give up forever to touch you
      'Cause I know that you feel me somehow
      You're the closest to heaven that I'll ever be
      And I don't wanna go home right now

      And all I can taste is this moment
      And all I can breathe is your life
      When sooner or later it's over
      I just don't wanna miss you tonight

      And I don't want the world to see me
      'Cause I don't think that they'd understand
      When everything's made to be broken
      I just want you to know who I am

      And you can't fight the tears that ain't coming
      Or the moment of truth in your lies
      When everything feels like the movies
      Yeah, you bleed just to know you're alive

      And I don't want the world to see me
      'Cause I don't think that they'd understand
      When everything's made to be broken
      I just want you to know who I am

      And I don't want the world to see me
      'Cause I don't think that they'd understand
      When everything's made to be broken
      I just want you to know who I am

      And I don't want the world to see me
      'Cause I don't think that they'd understand
      When everything's made to be broken
      I just want you to know who I am

      I just want you to know who I am
      I just want you to know who I am
      I just want you to know who I am

      ~Vegas

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    2. The lead singer said this, about writing the song:

      “Iris” was written for the 1998 film City of Angels starring Nicolas Cage. John Rzeznik explained:

      When I wrote it, I was thinking about the situation of the Nicholas Cage character in the movie. This guy is completely willing to give up his own immortality, just to be able to feel something very human. And I think, ‘Wow! What an amazing thing it must be like to love someone so much that you give up everything to be with them.’ That’s a pretty heavy thought.

      “Iris” eventually became one of the Goo Goo Dolls' biggest and most recognizable hits, eclipsing the movie it was written for.

      ~Vegas

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    3. Hi Vegas,

      Regarding my SO... I'm utterly puzzled (more about my reactions to him than his odd behavior). He came back to me, just to tell me he didn't mean it not even a full week afterwards. I'm kinda torn between wanting to destroy him for good and making everything work again even if it meant giving myself up. And, you know, it's not as if I expected him to stay anyways... I know he's pure chaos.

      I imagine that must be how neurotypicals feel all the time when they fall in love... Under normal circumstances, I'd have burnt the bridges and moved on long ago, but with him... I can't. Strange situation, really.

      Either he's playing with me to get vengeance, or he really doesn't know. Either way, I realize his behavior is toxic for me. I'd give myself the advice to ignore him and quit wasting thoughts on him - but out of whatever odd reason that doesn't work.

      I still think he's my soulmate, tho I'm not so sure anymore whether we're meant for each other.

      Re the song, I like it. :)

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    4. May I ask , why do you feel he's your soulmate? Is there such a thing? What is it about him that you feel drawn to him? The reason why I ask is because sometimes love can cloud judgment. Is it just all an illusion? Can you get the same feeling somewhere else? Or just aspects of it until he lessons your grip on you. (Maybe channel it somewhere else.) You deserve what's best for you thats all. We all do. Don't mean to bud in. :)

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    5. @Superchick,

      We're one of a kind, so similar in mindset that, at times, it's hard for me to believe he's not a fabrication of my mind. He sees right through my lies and manipulations, on a level I haven't seen in others, but he's not angry at me because of that and instead accepts it as a part of me... actually, he's the same, a pathological liar, and game-wise he plays in the same league as I do.

      Whenever I'm with him, I feel at ease, haven't had this with any living being before.

      There's a level of understanding between us which was downright unrealistic for me to imagine before I met him. Never thought I could get so obsessed with a person in the first place... he proved me wrong. (He did hint that he did it on purpose, but I'm not sure.)

      I know that love can cloud judgement, have heard that one often times. Went through that stage in the first two months of our relationship. (I didn't want to see the odd parts of his personality in the beginning, wanted to think he's normal and by that a prove that I'm just normal as well.)

      I don't know if all was just an illusion, I guess it's possible most of what I thought was there was indeed just projection on my side... He knows I'm ever unsure about such things and plays on it shamelessly... but that might be an illusion as well.

      My mind can't let go of him. I tried to. But I'm ok with that... (I guess...)

      Inquiries are much welcomed, a good way to change perspective and discover new solutions.

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    6. Wow, I really admire your honesty , he'd be a fool to let you go . ;) He probably will , it's more of a reflection of his own things. Accept it. Which sounds like your doing. I give you respect.
      At the same time I here this same theme with lots of people. I do validate your experience as it was individual and powerful (no one can take that away from you) whether it be for a particular season or longer. Just know that you can fullfill those desires you might long for with other things, other people other than him. You build respect within and might want to end things for good. I find sociopaths or any cluster b's personalities like this - you need to earn your way, it's sick and delightful at the same time. So you play the game, or choose to walk away. They are great at beginnings, awful at endings. If it's two people with the traits of cluster B (how delightful to see it unfold) and fun. Either way - you remember you win no matter the outcome because you won't allow anyone to take away your power and individuality. I wish you the best of luck. Usually it does come to end. How beautiful the destruction though. Stay strong. Enjoy the seasonal ride !

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    7. NM , honest question , does he respect you? If not, I advise you to let him go, just my two cents.
      If so, well it may work. Idk ... You two can figure that out. :)

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    8. Nihilistic

      For real you should trust your heart and give in and see what happens. Most likely he doesn't want revenge but just wants to move on with you. You guys seem to have great chemistry!

      Worst case he will break your heart but at least you will know for sure he was not for you. If you try to destroy him you will never know and if you ever find out later he truly loved you that will suck, really suck for you. You will regret losing him your whole life. You have to take a risk to get the reward. Go get em!

      Soulmates do not come around everyday. Be smart and do not let do anything stupid. This is so cute I really hope it works out for the best for you guys! Keep us posted!!!

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    9. I actually had to look up what respect means to answer that... Well, I'm not sure if he does. When we talk, he does respect my views, personality trait, etc. but he doesn't seem to care much about me, or at least his actions and reactions give the impression that I'm simply not a priority in his life. But that's quite the same as is with me and almost all people - just not with him. I think this was the cause of some escalating debates... gotta think more about this.

      Thank you for the comment, it kinda opens up whole new point of view on a topic I didn't put much thought into yet. The realisation that he's more than just similar in behavior to me (exceeding what his ADHD-diagnosis and relation-anxiety would give regarding parallels) hit me not very long ago, maybe some weeks at most.

      He can never bring me down, but it's sure as hell fascinating to watch the dynamic between us - especially as I can see a lot clearer nowadays how dysfunctional most of my coping mechanisms and interaction styles are yet am not able to control most of it.

      I don't know if I can find someone like him again... I've met a sociopath a few weeks ago who is much more similar to me in terms of aggression potential and recklessness. This person really showed me why you shouldn't mix potential trouble-makers. We burnt some stuff and philosophized about building a business corporation with murder and fraud (in great detail...), which was fun, but would ultimately lead to either incarceration or worse.

      My SO has the right complimentary behavioral characteristics to temper my aggression and is introverted enough not to get into too much fights with me, which also leads to me self-regulating my issues so I won't upset him because then he rather withdraws in such situations(I don't like that...), and if I overstep the boundaries he gets passive-aggressive which directs me to overthink what went wrong.

      I hope we figure it out... if not, I hope I won't get too angry at him.

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    10. @Anon,
      "You guys seem to have great chemistry!"
      Yes, I know that, he does so too. That's why I'm confused with his reaction (withdrawal).

      He already broke my heart, many times, but I don't care much about that. I guess I broke his heart too... more than once as well.

      I'll keep posting updates. ;)

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    11. Interesting if he can tame you - and you can tame him, hopefully respect will resonate and flourish. If not, well like ya said he's broken your heart many times and you him. Only you know your own thresh-hold. And him as well.
      Personally, I'd wanna teach him a lesson or two, but that's just me. I can still admire someone and tinker around. Not destroy but teach. ;)
      NH I trust you know what to do :P

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    12. @Superchick, Never ever trust me on knowing what to do. It's pure improvisation aimed at doing *something* rather than doing something well. xD

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    13. Hey NM-

      I dig the new pic.:)

      Did you watch the "Iris" video???

      John Rzeznik (the lead singer), is HOT!!!

      I like watching him perform, in the pouring down rain-hope you did, too.:)

      ~Vegas

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    15. Superchick-

      I also admire NM's honesty-that's why I dig him so much!!!

      It is rare to find someone as honest and direct, as he is-a true "diamond in the rough"!!!

      That's what I mean, when I say that I like it, when people are "real".:)

      From what I can tell-NM is as "real" as they come, and I SO DIG THAT!!!

      ~Vegas

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    16. Superchick-

      PS-That's why I always love to see a post from NM.:)

      ~Vegas

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    17. Stop "over thinking" and trust him for once. He loves you more than you can imagine that's why you have trouble believing him. Trust your gut.

      Morgan

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    18. NM-

      From what you have said-your SO sounds like your soul mate.:)

      People debate whether soul mates exist or not, and what the meaning of a "soul mate", actually is.

      You and your SO, remind me so much of my husband and I.:) I believe my husband is my soul mate, and I agree with this definition of "soul mate":

      “People think a soul mate is your perfect fit, and that's what everyone wants. But a true soul mate is a mirror, the person who shows you everything that is holding you back, the person who brings you to your own attention so you can change your life.

      A true soul mate is probably the most important person you'll ever meet, because they tear down your walls and smack you awake. But to live with a soul mate forever? Nah. Too painful. Soul mates, they come into your life just to reveal another layer of yourself to you, and then leave.

      A soul mates purpose is to shake you up, tear apart your ego a little bit, show you your obstacles and addictions, break your heart open so new light can get in, make you so desperate and out of control that you have to transform your life, then introduce you to your spiritual master...”

      ― Elizabeth Gilbert, Eat, Pray, Love

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    19. NM-

      Oops!!! I SO LOVE THAT QUOTE, that I forgot to sign.:)^

      ~Vegas

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    20. NM-

      I have also heard it said, that a "soul mate", is finding your "counterpoint" in another-it sounds like you found it.:)

      ~Vegas

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    21. NM-

      I apologize for the multiple posts.:(

      What stands out for me in reading your posts, is his "withdrawal".

      Do you know the origin for this??? Is he afraid of you, or drawing you in???

      ~Vegas

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    22. Superchick-

      I enjoy reading your posts, as well.:)

      Everything you said, resonates with me.:)

      ~Vegas

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    23. Listen to your heart if you want what's good for you. Listen to random strangers on a sociopath forum if you want to pay games.

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    25. Stop being a heartless jerk one time and do what's right. You'll be overjoyed that you did.

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    26. Jonaid @ 605

      I'm listening.....

      Intelligence is attractive, craftiness is not.

      Love this. Hit like arrows.

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    28. @Vegas
      Thanks, it's from Call of Duty: Black Ops.

      Yeah, the lead singer is hot, tho could be a bit slimmer for my taste :)


      I'm back in a minute, lots to do in the laboratory

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    29. How long are you going to make me wait? Patience is a virtue but you don't have to push it ;). I'm having trouble concentrating on my studies waiting. Come on!

      Morgan

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    30. @Morgan, I'm back again but can't stay for too long. Nice to read your comment tho. ;)

      " Stop "over thinking" and trust him for once. He loves you more than you can imagine that's why you have trouble believing him. Trust your gut. "

      I'd love to believe this is really the case. However, my guts tell me I'm acting/behaving/thinking like a crack addict gone nuts - besides, my SO sayed he doesn't love me, there's nothing he feels for me and that he does not want a relationship atm no matter with whom. His actions/reactions/behavior tell a slightly different story tho, especially the last 4 to 5 weeks:

      He got jealous upon seeing me talking to another man, was super nice to me sometimes when I didn't expect it, tried to (and succeeded) in making me all possessive (and at times jealous) by flirting with / pretending to flirt with strangers, and so on and so forth. See why I'm confused?

      I told him 'bout all of this, as straight forward as possible, and he told me he wasn't aware this behavior is intolerable outside of a romantic relationship. He did acknowledge tho that said behaviors are not exactly "just friendship".

      I'd call it "complicated". ;p

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    31. @Jonaid, I gotta admit there are quite some paralleles between you and my SO (not the first time I see them), wich did surprise me. You're much different on other stances tho. Yet, it's always interesting for me to read about the dynamic between you and your socio friend. It definitely helps to hear stories similar to mine.


      " NM put your ego aside already and just say "I'm sorry." Drop it in an email if you can't say it in person. If your SO is anything like me, he'll appreciate that more than a million dollars. He'll come around then on his own.

      Stop over thinking and worrying. God is in control of everything. "

      You seem to mistake me for a narcissist here. I drop whatever gets in my way, and if it's my ego I don't bat an eye dropping it as well. I do whatever needs to be done, and of course I apologized whenever I recognized I did him wrong.

      Actually, I wrote him a lengthy message via mobile phone apologizing and making clear I don't want revenge but a resolution.

      Delete
    32. @Anon721
      " Listen to your heart if you want what's good for you. Listen to random strangers on a sociopath forum if you want to pay games. "

      Hi there, anonymous fella. You do realize I'm bright enough to see I've entered the vast realm of the unexpectable, a.k.a. Internet?

      This here, is my current most favorite 'social sandbox', in which I post thoughts and opt to receive whatever input might help to further my own flow of thoughts. Taking anything one-to-one, no matter from which source (be it internet, parents, real-life-friends, news, tv, etc.), will inevitably lead to a wasted life potential. I don't opt to become a marionette for anyone.

      On a more serious note, listening to my 'heart' would lead to total annihilation.

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    33. Now I'm gonna drink my booze and take a night off... next couple of days will be hefty xD

      Good night all.

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    34. More games...Stop it and just drop the email. I'm looking out for it. There's a lot to discuss! Stop being an idiot and just do it. I'm chained until you give me something.

      Please no more games.

      Morgan

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    36. It's darkest before dawn. You're almost there don't hold back now. You'll be ecstatic as soon as you get this over with. I'm no psycho, far from it.

      Morgan

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    37. "I'd love to believe this is really the case. However, my guts tell me I'm acting/behaving/thinking like a crack addict gone nuts - besides, my SO sayed he doesn't love me, there's nothing he feels for me and that he does not want a relationship atm no matter with whom."

      You know he loves you. It's just a couple of bloody words say them and find out for sure. Come on stop being afraid who the hell do you think he is, the devil? For Jesus' sake stop being afraid.

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    38. Damn it, folks, you're all talking a hell of nonsense I rarely read on the web. Anyways, I called him - 3 times - till he answered the phone. Made a deal in mutual respect, and now we're together again. In for another round. Up and down it goes ... let's see how far it goes this time.

      Major problem with my SO and the word/vague concept of 'relationship': He's afraid. Now he told me he doesn't want to take resposibility for me (or anyone, by that matter), which is fully understandable for me. Told him repreatably that I don't want him to.

      I'm kinda drunk just to mention it.

      @Morgan, do know you? You sound strangely familiar... Whatever. Got what ya wanted?

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    39. Hey NM-

      I like you even more, when you're drunk.:)

      I love how you tell it, like it is.:)

      "Damn it, folks, you're all talking a hell of nonsense I rarely read on the web."

      I was thinking exactly the same thing.:)

      I was thinking about something else that you said, and wanted to ask you a question:

      Why would "listening to your heart", result in your annihilation???

      I wish you luck on the "next round", with your SO.:)

      ~Vegas

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    40. PS NM-

      I believe "Morgan" is Jonaid.

      ~Vegas

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    41. PSS NM-

      Sorry-my mind never stops going!!!

      I had another thought about your SO:

      Do you think he wants a strictly sexual relationship with you??? Straight sex, with "no strings attached"???

      ~Vegas

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    42. PSSS NM-

      I also believe some of the "Anon" postings to you, are also Jonaid.

      He is "Jonaid", "Morgan", and "Anon"...

      ~Vegas

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    43. I really want to meet him today. I'm still hopeful.

      I'm getting rid of the previous messages to save myself public humiliation again. I hope you are brave enough to do what's right.

      Delete
    44. Actually I can't they're all anonymous. Oh well. I hope it was worth it.

      Delete
    45. PSSSS NM-

      Just an FYI-

      Jonaid did this with Socioempath, too. He started posting to Socioempath under various aliases, and posting to Socioempath as if Socioempath was the lover that jilted Jonaid.

      I don't think Jonaid got what he wants-he is pining for his ex-lover, and is now attaching to you...

      I'm not worried about you, though-I know you can hold your own.:)

      ~Vegas

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    46. Vegas someone knows who you are outside of SW. Why don't you mind your own business like a good boy?

      Delete
    47. Vegas, It would result not only in my, but in total annihilation. I'd destroy everyone I would come in contact with. Tried it and burnt. More or less. We gotta face it, I'm a cold-blooded heartless egomaniac. Moreover, planless, clueless, with ever-changing goals. Not a good mixture if it isn't toned down by common sense and logic. ;)

      I don't think my SO wants a strictly sexual relationship - quite the opposite, he's the most asexual man I've ever met. I think he likes me out of the same reasons I didn't drop him after a bit of fun.

      Thanks for wishing me luck :)

      PS Thank you for the kind warnings, but I doubt Morgan is Jonaid. The voice is too different. With the Anons, I'm not sure, but I wouldn't care if. Would add an interesting dimension.

      PSS I had to type almost every word twice, which means I'm too drunk to hit the right keys and therefore I gonna go to sleep now. Have to be awake in 3 hours or so. (It's almost 3am over here xD )

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    48. Wow this has turned into a bollywood movie script. Hopefully it'll have a good bollywood ending...less the crazy dancing and mass singing ;).

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    49. NM stop drinking it's not good for you. You have a designated driver if you need one.

      Morgan

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    50. Jonaid, Bollywood movies are, to my knowledge, mostly happy-go-lucky romance stuff. The thing between my SO and me has more in common with a business meeting than a romance film.

      Plus, we yet have to see whether he'll change his mind for no apparent reason in a few days or not.

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    51. Morgan, I drink whenever I want to and however much I want to. Define "not good" for me.

      Thank you for the offer, but I pay a flatrate for public transportation so I use it whenever possible. They drive round the clock, no need for a taxi.

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    52. It's strange my messages keep posting and then dissapearing. Never happened before but has happened three times since yesterday.

      NM I was just afraid you might get in trouble or hurt yourself by drinking too much. That's why I said "No good."

      Did you send him a message yet? Give him a goddam apology he'll love you forever for that. It sounds too good & too stupid to be true but that's how love is. Go on try it I'm with you!

      Morgan

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    53. And Nihilist,

      When you do it and he tells you why there was no way he could make up with you without it, you'll realize even this was more for you and not him.

      I can't wait to see your comments after all this is over. Go for it. Today.

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    54. "We gotta face it, I'm a cold-blooded heartless egomaniac. Moreover, planless, clueless, with ever-changing goals."

      I was almost like that too. It took forces beyond my control, multiple times, to tame me and boy am I glad that I am tamed. Life is much more tranquil and enjoyable now. So don't worry it's a longish phase that's all. You're not heartless if that were the case you wouldn't have someone obsessed with your heart.

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    55. Morgan, you don't have to worry about me. I get in trouble with and without drinking, but I'm sturdy. ;)

      I apologized to him so many times and it didn't change much - except for making the situation worse.

      I called him yesterday late at night and negotiated with him. We're in a relationship again. I called him today once more and he had almost forgotten our conversation (which is quite normal). Had to remind him and he actually remembered it, which is rather unusual. Especially because he hasn't changed his mind in the meantime or decided that he didn't mean what he said.

      He doesn't know why he acts the way he does. Practically speaking, I don't know it either... but unlike him I always try to make sense out of it afterwards.

      I feel much more content now.

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    56. @Anon1108,
      I doubt force can change anything to the better, at least for me it won't work anymore. It'll definitely take long for me to change tho.

      What I meant with obsession has nothing at all to do with feelings. It's a circular behavioral chainreaction out of control.

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    57. I really wish you could read me inside out. If you still played your games then I'd deserve it.

      I could play games too. If I wanted to hurt you or mess with you head the last thing I would be doing is what I'm doing, that is, telling you how I feel. I'd find some pawns to play with and flaunt in front of you, then pretend to be indifferent to you. That worked when I didn't even try so imagine if I put some effort into it. No, I know what real love is and it's not into games and lies.

      Good for you and your "SO." I'll mind my own business now.

      Morgan

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    58. Morgan,
      " I'd find some pawns to play with and flaunt in front of you, then pretend to be indifferent to you. "

      That is exactly how he behaved toward me to drive me crazy... I was desperate, asked him to stop but he didn't seem to understand... or maybe thought it's funny to see me in agony. The side effect was that I got obsessed with him, couldn't stop to think about him all day... phoned him up to 50 times a day (mostly around 10 to 20 times a day) without actually knowing what to say. Lost all trust I initially had.

      I never intended to play games. I just wanted to be close to someone worth it, to understand and be understood. Without needing to pretend or lie.

      I hope it never gets this sinister again.

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    59. Hey NM-

      I was thinking more about it, and your SO's behavior does sound quite erratic.

      You mentioned he has an attachment disorder and ADHD-if he's on any medications, I'm wondering if that is the cause...

      ~Vegas

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    60. NM-

      PS-Prescribed medications, or possibly the affects of alcohol and/or other drug use???

      ~Vegas

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    61. NM-

      PSS-I'm worried about you guys.

      If he makes you really angry and/or frustrated, will you try to leave or go after inanimate objects???

      PLEASE???

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    62. NM

      I'm really, really sorry for that. Believe me he didn't do that to hurt you he was just trying to cover up his own pain and feelings of rejection by trying to find someone else. He thought you were never really into him and just wanted sex. Most of the times he mentioned anyone else he just wanted advice from his closest and dearest friend. Irony is he ended up hurting the same guy he thought hurt him. He also took you at your word when you said you had no feelings for him.

      He's really sorry he refused to believe that someone could care so much about him. He didn't mean it he didn't know.

      He misses you like hell give him another chance. You're the most amazing person he ever met. Please just give him another chance. Give him a shout and he'll come running...or hopping rather ;)

      Please don't make him wait anymore. I swear he won't ever knowingly hurt you again.

      Morgan

      Delete
    63. How he wishes you told him all this before. No matter, whatever happens is for the good in the long run. Come on now drop him some hint, anything, it doesn't even have to be an apology...just so he knows you really want to meet him too. He'll come right away. He can't think about anyone but you right now.

      He's waiting. Been waiting.

      JP Morgan

      Delete
    64. Come on don't hold back now I'm on the road. Let's not delay now.

      Morgan

      Delete
    65. Is this how it felt? It's torture waiting. If this is what he did to you then I guess he deserves the torture. Still, know he never meant to, never. Give him something, some sign, anything. - Morgan

      Delete
    66. NM I guess you opted for the "destroy him" option. I have to believe you know this pain, the pain & torture of waiting for the beloved. Only someone who knows it can inflict it on someone else.

      Know that he forgives you for this too. He loves you too much he has no choice but to forgive this too. I hope you find true peace.

      All the best,

      Morgan

      Delete
    67. Morgan, you seem to know more than me. Have we met in the real world, or am I just paranoid?

      There's a lot you shouldn't be knowing if you were a random stranger from the interenet... the information you use seem to implicate you know us... or is this an illusion? Forgive me for being so paranoid, still trying to shake it off.

      On topic, I'm not going to contact him right now, it's half past 1 a.m. ... and I never told him I felt nothing for him - actually it's the opposite. He told me he didn't feel a thing for me, repeatedly, and I believed him, am still weary cause of that. (If you know both of us... are you mistaking me for him?)

      Delete
    68. And no, I didn't opt for destruction. I'd never would be able to fofgive myself. I simply fell asleep cause it's damn late...

      Delete
    69. Vegas, he wasn't erratic. And he dislikes medication of any sort, just like me. He's not a drug user. Alcohol might intere with his memory sometimes.

      I doubt he hurt me on purpose. He likely thought I didn't love him in the first place - he used to tell me how he couldn't believe someone like me was into him.

      Delete
    70. Morgan, if he comes to my place, he's just gotta phone me. I'd wake up immediately upon hearing my phone ring... he's the only one with a seperate ringtone - and I'm a rather light sleeper... I hear the slightest noise.

      I told my SO many times he can drop by at any given chance, no matter what time or day, without needing to tell me long beforehand.

      Delete
    71. Hey NM-

      I don't think "Morgan" knows you or your SO. As I mentioned before-he has done this to others. He projects onto them, as if they are his ex-lover. He also refuses to believe, that there are any females posting here. He thought "A" was a boy, he thinks I am a boy-regardless of how many times we tell him we are not his ex-lover, and that we are female...

      I'll try not to worry about you and your SO.:)

      With the "bar incident", your new pic, and you mentioning you felt "sinister", I was concerned...

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    72. NM-

      PS-I am glad everything is ok, and I wish you and your SO THE BEST!!!

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    73. Vegas, I don't like it when people try to confuse me or manipulate me without good reason, be Morgan is pretty damn accurate if he's really just guessing.

      " With the "bar incident", your new pic, and you mentioning you felt "sinister", I was concerned... "

      Understandable, but you don't have to be worried. It's already a week ago I felt this bad and the new pic is rather an expression of my need to change something. I also dyed my hair red (not the best choice ... going to dye 'em black again) and cut my hair radically short. Quite some other small things I changed as well.

      Re the PS, thank you :)

      Delete
    74. I'll try to fetch some sleep now... Good night to all of you.

      Delete
    75. I'll try to fetch some sleep now... Good night to all of you.

      Delete
    76. NM-

      I hope you are fast asleep.:)

      You know I love the new pic.:) I just wasn't sure, if it had "additional meaning"...

      I cut my hair short and dyed it red once.:) It was a fun change.:) I've never dyed my hair black, but I think black hair is HOT!!! I've always wished I had black hair and green eyes-it's such a beautiful combination, that I rarely see. It would be fun to do that someday-dye my hair black, and get some green contact lenses.:) It's fun to "change things up"!!!

      You're welcome, for the "PS".:)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    77. NM-

      PS-I know I've said this before, but I love the way you speak.:)

      I also love how polite you are.:)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    78. Yes NM, I'm the one you can't get over and you're the one I can't let go. We can be so amazing together but it seems your ego is more important to you than your own (let alone mine) happiness. I will always remain hopeful because I know deep down you're a beautiful person. You can try to "destroy" me and I'll still love you.

      I won't indulge your games anymore. I hope to God you don't go down with your stubborness.

      Love,
      Morgan

      Delete
    79. Morgan, I don't play games when it's not the time to play - when I'm seriour for example. In such cases, I stoo immediately and clear the situstion. I want you to know that I will never try to destroy you.

      Besides, the german language is a strange thing, grammatically speaking. We use a lot of commas to indicate pause in speech, and the sentences are modulated in a much different way. It'd be a lot of work to get that information for a non native speaker ;)

      Anyways, your game was nice to play and presented me with options I wouldn't have considered on my own in a very subtle way. The only topic standing out and thus demeaning your effort was the ego thing. Told you it doesn't work, didn't I? To up your game you might want to consider keeping an eye on plasticity, just go with the flow of suggestible cues.

      And in case you really thought we ever met outside the internet, I give you the same advice I gave my significant other upon looking up his BMI. Go get a therapist. A good one who'll listen to you.

      Just sayin' thank you, you really helped me fix some things which went terribly wrong with my thinking during the last month.

      Delete
    80. Damn mobile phone... sorry for the typos.

      Delete
    81. NM-

      It's all good-I just thought you were drunk.:)

      I love your politeness.:)

      Are you fluent in German???

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    82. Vegas,
      " It's all good-I just thought you were drunk.:) "

      Nah, I check my spelling ridiculously often when I'm drunk. But writing on a phone in the middle of the night while on the way to my SO typos just happen.

      " Are you fluent in German??? "

      Yep, and my German is better than german folks' German. 'Cause I'm from Austria. :p

      " I love your politeness.:) "

      That's cultural. ;)

      Delete
    83. "And in case you really thought we ever met outside the internet, I give you the same advice I gave my significant other upon looking up his BMI. Go get a therapist. A good one who'll listen to you."

      Like your dad? Lol

      Be happy I got carried away emotionally and yet again you puffed up and tried to take advantage. It's okay tho I can't help it for you. I really do love the hell out of you. Maybe, just maybe, you will get over your cock and find a heart one day. The last thing I want is for life to give you a trajic wake up call when I'm no longer around.

      Love,
      Morgan

      Delete
    84. Don't say "destroy you" it makes you sound like you think you're immortal or something. You need to wake up from your delusion. The only thing you can try to do now is humiliate me with the messages I sent you when you had your dog loose on me. Go on might as well satiate your puffed up ego and try to "destroy me." I'll telling you in advance I'll forgive that too. Apparently your heart has more impact on me than you.

      Morgan

      Delete
    85. Honey, sorry to say, but I don't know you and I've got no clue who you are.

      Delete
    86. OK technically I did manipulate him a couple of times, like when I stole his phone and threw it out the window, made him sign an agreement etc. That stuff was not in my "good" days. I'm sure he doesn't care much about that either.

      I know everything I'm writing is being read by cynical eyes treating every word as a psychopaths sly attempts at manipulating. He can test me, ask for anything that might convince him. I got nothing to hide, no agenda, except what I'm telling him.

      Morgan

      Delete
    87. "How saaadddd"

      One of the things he used to say sarcastically in such a cute way. I miss him a lot and I fear for him, because of what he's turning into.

      I sent him an angry email last November. Very nasty because I wanted to force my mind to get over him, feeling hurt. I guess he took that way too seriously and is afraid, despite my apologizing about it in a follow up email.

      "Shitty"

      I should be insulted and offended that he's got such a low opinion of me, thinking I'm lying and manipulating him now when I never did before. That, however, won't get us anywhere. I love him too much. I miss his smile, his laugh, his jokes, his face, everything. Don't treat me him like a fraud after all you already put him thru.

      Morgan

      Delete
    88. Morgan, I can't remember such an email. So either I should be worried about my brain, or you're mistaking me for someone.

      I'm puzzled about the level of coincidence tho if the latter should be true. Fascinating.

      Okay, let me give you the freedom of doubt. Tell me a few things I've never published and things will hopefully get clearer for us two.

      What is my favorite color and why?
      (The why is more important than the color itself... I tend to mention the reason a lot in real life.)

      Tell me three nicknames I call my dog frequently. (If you really know me you should have heard that many times.)

      You know I'm dyslexic. What do I do to remember where I've got to go when someone tells me to got left/right. (More pronounced when I'm drunk but also present when sober.)

      List 4 of my most favorite dog breeds... (That's an easy one.)

      Delete
    89. I don't know the answer to these questions. This is what I do know from the guy I knew. I'm just recollecting, only he knows if it's true.

      He told me once, very early on, that "friends matter more than money." Ironically this was in response to my jokingly telling him not to screw me over after he thanked me for being so helpful.

      He said he wanted to be the wealthiest gay man in the world. I teased him and said he'll have to make do with second.

      He's got a nice chunk of land he's going to inherit from his grandparents.

      He told me his childhood story, about how his parents moved abroad, his father headed church there, and how things steadily changed once his father lost his faith. It was a great story which I'd love to hear again.

      His parents sat them - his siblings and him - all down and officially announced their atheism. It was strange to me but cute, and a sign of a tight-knit family which I was in need of at the time.

      He told me a lot about his father, who he respects a lot, from him being the only man who called out his co-workers for fraud at work, to how he - his dad - is the main reason why he's "tamed." I have more respect for the man than for most people I know...and I never met him!

      He used to call our company "his baby."

      He has 4 sisters, no brothers. One of them is a lesbian. His dad jokes sometimes and calls him the daughter and her the son.

      His dad was a tax accountant but now only works as a therapist.

      He said he was 16 when he lost his virginity.

      He was on duty in Japan during the Fukushima accident. I swear how he described his thoughts when he thought he might die reminded me of how I felt during the latter part of my suicidal stage - just accepted the reality, did not panic, as if in peace about it.

      He has an aunt-in-law he really doesn't like. She's uptight and his uncle could have done much better. I too have an uncle with an uptight, ugly aunt and he could have done way better.

      His first real sociopathic act was killing some fish in his home. His dad caught him and said something to the effect of "first it's fish, eventually its humans."

      He said he was a pathological liar until his mom wrote him a letter when he was 16.

      He admitted to me that he has social anxiety disorder. We related on that but I told him I got over it after I had myself diagnosed with ADHD. His anxiety kept him from a business meeting around that time.

      He really likes Japanese food.

      He hates the winter and loves the summer.

      I believe he had his first weed session with his Dad during Thanksgiving 2014. I may be wrong but I think he said that.

      His dad tried to have him diagnosed with ADHD when he was young.

      His dad used to jokingly warn him while driving by a certain location (I forgot the location) that "you'd end up working here if you don't get your grades up."

      He first saw Battlestar Galactice when he noticed his dad watching it on TV.

      One of his sisters is married to a conservative guy and he mentioned out they are the odd ones out.

      He blames me for causing him a lot of pain by flaunting pawns in front of him. He forgets that he was the one who first mentioned a Keanu Reeves look-alike guy he was screwing in the park. It put me on alarm because I lacked experience and felt he'll shun me when he finds out.











      Delete
    90. He often corrected my grammatical mistakes. It's "I forget" not "I forgot."

      He told me wrote a short novel.

      He told me he can cook really good.

      He said one of his ex-boyfriends got so obsessed with him that he called his husband and tried to cause trouble.

      He used to run a small cleaning business and then started growing marijuana. They only did one run and then moved to my state.

      His car got towed for too many unpaid violations.

      He speaks fluent Spanish, having spent a good part of his childhood in Chile.

      Apparently I was one of only 6 people who was using his Netflix.

      He told me I'd meet his dad one day. Will I?

      ---------

      I can keep on going. I miss you and I don't hold any grudge at all, for anything, except your stubbornness. It's just two words. You're not the only one who was hurt. I told you I needed someone who could understand my life because I feared you wouldn't. Now I don't care. Just don't treat me like a heartless asshole. I love you, too much.

      J Morgan

      Delete
    91. Hey NM-

      Be careful, texting and driving-I don't want anything to happen to you.

      That's SO AWESOME you speak fluent German-YOU ARE SO COOL!!!

      Like I said, I could sit in a bar and have drinks, and just listen to you speak-in English or German.:)

      I know you speak German better than Germans, since your Austrian.:)

      I really dig how polite you are, and understand that it is "cultural"-THAT'S AWESOME!!!

      When I travel, I'm often embarrassed about how rude Americans can be-not all, but some.:( I understand the saying, that "Americans are the world's worst travelers".:( I do not count myself in that group, though.:)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    92. Hey NM-

      PS-I don't know German, but I still thinks it's cool, to hear people speak other languages.:)

      Do you speak German or English, or both, in your daily life??? Do you know additional languages, as well???

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    93. NM-

      PS-That made me laugh, when you called "Morgan", "Honey".:)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
  3. I appreciate the OP being real with himself(herself?). I agree with the statement that just because you might be a manipulative asshole doesn't guarantee a socio disposition. Just because I relate to emotions and social situations in a non conventional way doesn't mean I am always walking around being a cock. Could I be an ass and be blatantly obvious of my intentions? Sure but then it would be harder to get what I want. Plus I think alot of teenagers on here think they are socios but it's really just a fucked up time for most and they are grasping at answers to why their minds might be thinking the way they do.

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  4. M.E.

    It should help if there was a clear-cut definition of who or what a sociopath and a psychopath is. Maybe you should put together a list of check-offs and then get some feedback from other sociopaths you know. I would think it's better than having to guess at each inquiry all the time.

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  5. In the name of God, The Merciful, The Compassionate.

    "O mankind! Keep your duty to your Lord and fear a Day when the parent will not be able to avail the child in aught, nor the child to avail the parent. Without doubt God's promise is the very truth. Let not the life of the world deceive you, nor let the chief deceiver deceive you about God."

    Qur'an 31:33

    ReplyDelete
  6. Let me tell you a secret...
    The world is a simulation. It isn't real.
    None of us are real.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. We are all living in the eXistenZe game mainframe plugged in to our data ports.

      Delete
  7. Ohh.. this topic is interesting to me.

    2 things.

    A few months back, my sociofriend and I had this conversation...
    - I am an asshole?
    - yes. You are the biggest asshole I have ever met
    The foLlowing conversation was very entertaining to say the least.

    Also, I have often felt like a few people on this site (bite me comes to mind but there are others) were hiding behind the sociopath diagnostic. Perhaps because they are too lazy or too insecure to take responsibility for their failed relationships.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. OldAndWise-

      I bet the conversation that followed with your socio friend, was quite entertaining.:)

      On your second point-I agree, that people often want to find something to blame their failures on, especially in current times...

      ~Vegas

      Delete
  8. for no reason, from Listverse:

    "10 Unexpected Benefits To Being A Psychopath"

    http://listverse.com/2016/04/22/10-unexpected-benefits-to-being-a-psychopath/


    #2 was intreesting

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That article was pretty cool and makes a lot of sense :)

      Delete
    2. Damaged-

      I liked that article, too-it does make a lot of sense-thank you for sharing.:)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    3. Thanks for posting. Is nice to see benefits discussed, especially when it comes to my children. Right now they are still young, but one is already showing psychopathic traits. Usually it's addressed as so negative

      Delete
    4. And another article. This time, linked to, from Drudge report:


      "Creative people might secretly be psychopaths, scientists warn"

      http://metro.co.uk/2016/04/26/creative-people-might-secretly-be-psychopaths-scientists-warn-5842431/


      The American Psycho picture is really out of place. I wish they would stop using it.

      Delete
    5. Damaged-

      You find and share the coolest articles-thank you.:)

      I agree with you about the "American Psycho" picture, and wish they would stop using it, as well. I mentioned that previously, when referring to "The Silence of the Lambs".

      At the very least-it would be nice to see movies show a variety of psychopaths, instead of putting them all "in the same box"...

      ~Vegas

      Delete
  9. I'm a dick, I'm a dick , im a dick ........I'm an asshole , I'm an asshole, someone love me for the ASSHOLE I am ...

    Heard that one before. Dickwad. Manup. :)

    " Why would people, at the slightest lack of empathy, jump to the conclusion that they are a sociopath? And the reason i bring this up is, i used to feel like them."

    Really ...... Your wondering why people question, when you yourself questioned. Cookie , I baked some.

    Like you said, your just a douche ........that probably needs to meet other douches because your dick ain't bigger than his dick. You might think your dickwad- assholish has grown big but I guarantee you your just an average dick like the rest. ;)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Superchick-

      I dig you.:)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    2. Thanks , I dig you too :) you have a good heart Vegas.

      Delete
    3. Superchick-

      I'm glad you dig me, too.:)

      *****BLUSHING*****

      Thank you, for seeing my good heart-I see yours, too.:)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
  10. Almost everyone think that sadists are psychopaths, because this is how movies "paint the picture". This also is where the "psychopaths are always evil" comes from. Few know that the criminal type known as "sexual sadist" is considered the worst type of bad-guy, the human great white. 95% probably would say that psychopaths are the baddest of the bad. Most don´t know what a socio is about: its complicated stuff. Hyper-rational "computer people", indifferent or negative to other humans. That´s not a horror movie. It´s sterile and isolated stuff, introspection & mirrors & lucid day-dreams..

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anon @ 6:07-

      "Most don´t know what a socio is about: its complicated stuff. Hyper-rational "computer people", indifferent or negative to other humans. That´s not a horror movie. It´s sterile and isolated stuff, introspection & mirrors & lucid day-dreams.."

      Very good description. I believe my husband is a sociopath, and I tell him, that I think he is a "machine"...

      ~Vegas

      Delete
  11. I think what nons find most upsetting and horror like possibly in a Sci-fi Sense is the mimicking without deep understanding. Its just plain creepy.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You know what happens when a psycho kid asks a nt adult why they change their facial expression? They don't have an answer - thus blindly micking must be expected. Think about it.

      Delete
    2. That makes total sense. I think all kids do that to some extent though. Most kids don't get adult emotions. Their mind makes sense of things on a kid level. You grow into your emotions in a way.

      Delete
    3. Yes, all kids do that to some extent - however not at age 12 and up. I speak from experience, they (adults) never knew why they showed a certain facial expression. They expected me to mimic it anyways, without telling how to.

      So I learned to show the "right" expression based on trial and error. I'm 85% accurate - 98% when there's something to gain from it. I do understand how the concept might be creepy to some people tho... I guess in a similar way most uneducated dog owners I've met were creeped out by the realization their dog actually doesn't understand a single word yet reacts accurately to what they say.

      Delete
    4. Hmmm that's an interesting comparison. Its more of conditioning.

      Delete
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  13. how do you guys feel about people knowing that you are a sociopaths? i personally feel annoyed with people letting me know, that they see through med. however one of my friends know, and doesnt care, she doesnt fall for my shit, and i find it enjoyable to be around her...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It really depends on who I would be telling and for what reason. I would most likely defend the illusion of normalcy. It is just not worth it to have someone labelling you with such a heavily canotated and stigmatized word like socio. Just like I am an Athiest but I do not run around telling everyone my point of view. A theist and an Athiest experience "reality" in very different ways and rationalize events with either a good or natural process rose colored glass. I do have a BPD wife who knows me, but our mind frames compliment each other but as far as anyone else I prefer to keep them at a distance unless there is a goal in mind.

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  14. You know what I find amusing all the misleading articles on sociopathy on the net. I try to look at the arthurs name and many are people writing blogs. How misleading. Not even from credible sources. I do like M.E.'s blog ...she's openly admitted she falls into ASPD traits. She's unbiased and shows cognitive and compassionate empathy than many empaths who write blogs on disorders. She probably experiences emotional empathy to a degree but it does not control her. She channels it. Which is a good thing I believe.

    Than ya have people commenting on those other blogs, "omg, I've been living with a sociopath for almost twenty five years. Omg, I think my moms a narcissist." Omg.... Omg.
    Then they all get all cozy inside that other people experience this same thing and that other person they lived with is quickly stamped and sealed with the label -- sociopath.

    Hahaha! What a joke. How low.

    Then they get some divorce later on and one always bashes the shit out of the other and shames their name. Gets very polarized in their thinking how they are so bad but fail to forget all the glorious and good things of those years.

    What a joke.

    I'm sure most sociopaths don't bash people. They'd rather not get mixed up in the drama. And probably accept the next chapter of their lives easier than the other individual. The other party is so emotionally attached thus making up blogs on the net how my sociopathic husband tricked me for twenty five years. Facebook is classic for this. I've seen it time and time again.

    "Beware of the sociopath. " beware ! hahaha!

    No , beware of the emotional tyrant who will shame your name to others !

    Seriously, wake the fuck up. Let that shit go. He hurt you , you hurt him. Chapter done. Book closed. Wish each other well and don't make up groups to bash people with personality disorders. It's so uncalled for. If your going to do it, keep it positive, don't discriminate against disorders, keep it unbiased and don't shame people because only a psychiatrist is equipped to label someone no matter how justified you feel.

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    Replies
    1. Superchick-

      Well said.:)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
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    3. Superchick with all due respect for me it's not about calling them out or labeling them as a sociopath. Its about dealing with my experience. I am completely detached from them and I don't really feel much about them one way or another but that doesn't change my experience and how I process it. Its not just a snap of the fingers and voila-forgotton. Its very painful to be lied to and manipulated by someone you think you know.

      Delete
    4. I ain't trying to invalidate your experience it's what I see a lot of the time. Being lied to and being manipulative is disrespectful for anyone whether they have traits of a personality disorder or not. But we can't categorize that all sociopaths/borderlines etc......break hearts and lie to people. Most just see through bullshit.

      Delete
    5. Superchick in the end intentions matter. I was never a sociopath but I was always very good at reading people and seeing through their bullshit. Theoretically I was for cheating a cheater, deceiving a deceiver, etc. etc. In practice I rarely ever did so.

      Now that I believe in God, I understand why it's never acceptable to deceive or lie or betray someone (save the palpably obvious...war strategy or during torture or something). NO ONE knows for sure what another person's intentions are and why/how they ended up where they are. You may be the best reader but you will never know everything about the other person. It's better to trust God than to destroy a single innocent person from the inside. It's easy said than done but it's how one gets a higher rank with God and it's the fairest way to rise in rank there is.

      Peace.

      Delete
    6. I don't like those blogs either Superchick, you've hit the nail on the head.

      Anon 12:38 is right that it takes time to process and make space for the behaviour some of us experienced. To really, genuinely create an adequate account is resource intensive and demands a lot of personal change.

      It's definitely not "click your fingers" stuff. It's accounting for an entirely different paradigm. It's messy and dirty but tremendously valuable.

      People are bound to feel uncomfortable or frustrated by the messiness. But if a better, richer more rounded account is to be found, that's reality and not bullshit.

      Delete
    7. Thanks Jonaid, I enjoy ur thoughts.

      North, I've been on both sides of the camp so I do understand where Anon is coming from. :) I was just pointing out how some ex-partners shame people through social media. For me it's uncalled for and I usually call it out. If someone is sorting out there feelings I can understand that and maybe channel those feelings into something more productively than joining groups to shame their ex-partners. Ex: do a sport or hobby. I'm not saying it's unproductive joining these groups (to each there own). I just find it myself hypocritical. But that's my own conscience seeing through the bullshit. ;)
      I love to swim laps haven't done it for awhile so I restarted - and tonight I beat the shit out of the water. Hahaha ! See that's being productive about it, I hope :P

      Now boxing would be fun.

      Delete
    8. Appreciated, Superchick.

      I suppose an important learning for me is that I don't need to take other people's behaviour personally.

      I notice hypocrisy is called out on this site pretty regularly and that kinda makes sense to me. I guess neurotypical behaviour is perceived is being unfair in the sense the psychopaths are blamed for operating within their own paradigm, but then neurotypicals behave in damaging ways too. Is that close to the mark?

      I think we all feel a desire to be treated fairly and not be held responsible beyond reasonable scope. Finding these areas of common ground is very helpful in stripping back what is actually "bullshit" (and identifying misconceptions on both sides.)


      We are messy, passionate organisms; there's a discord, a clash of individual interests, but overall a harmony when we zoom out to view the species as a surviving, adapting whole.

      It's glorious to see the world from a different paradigm.


      Did you ever try rugby? Swimming scares me!

      Delete
    9. North well said. I kept nodding my head in yes. I'm just at work today so won't be on much - took a whole bunch of upcoming shifts. But listening to you was a breath of fresh air.

      Never tried rugby, but that would be so fun. : )

      Delete
    10. North it's nice to see you posting:-) and superchick I understand what your getting at. I have never posted anywhere but here for many reasons but one being I like how the conversations here evolve. I feel it's much more helpful to me even if it hits a nerve-or many simultaneously ;-)

      Delete
    11. And north yes it is extremely messy. And it absolutely should be.

      Delete
    12. Most people would prefer to believe their ex was an evil sociopath than to believe that someone could decide to stop loving them.

      Delete
    13. Superchick-

      "I love to swim laps haven't done it for awhile so I restarted"

      I am also a swimmer, but haven't done it for awhile!!! Thank you for mentioning that-I may have to "restart", as well.:)

      "- and tonight I beat the shit out of the water. Hahaha !"

      That's an awesome feeling!!! There's nothing like "beating the shit out of the water", is there???

      Are you a sprinter, or long distance swimmer?

      Even though we would swim miles in workouts, I am a "sprinter" by nature, when it comes to competing.:) In racing, I liked 50, 100, and 200 distances tops!!! I always admired what I consider to be long distance swimmers, who would swim in the mile long races.:) I would swim several miles in workouts, but not in racing!!! HA!!! LOL!!!

      Do you have a favorite stroke???

      My favorite to try to master is Butterfly.:) Backstroke was always my least favorite, as I often "ate water", at some point or another.:) Naturally, I was best at Breaststroke.:) I always thought Freestyle was the most fun, though!!!

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    14. Superchick-

      PS-I have never boxed, although I have always wanted to!!!

      I tried to talk my husband into putting up a punching bag in our house, but he didn't "go for that idea".:(

      Maybe I'll still try it someday, though!!!

      Have you boxed before???

      I think it would be FUN, too!!!

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    15. Thanks Superchick. Imagine a Sociopath Workd tourney, that would be an experience.

      Thanks Anon 7:02. Yes, absolutely. After the cycle of mess there is a deeper calm spiralling ever deeper, and an unmatched seasoning and capacity for life.

      Delete
    16. Heironymous Bot:

      Do you have any thoughts on the value of socialising a different conception that people might pin their experience to and learn from?

      Delete
    17. Regarding heironymous bots Post-its not as much about it being easier to believe they are a sociopath as it is to realize they never loved me to begin with. There was no start or stop.

      Delete
    18. That's also my take on my experience. It was deception end-to-end. He wants me to love him, though, whatever that means.

      I'm interested to see what HB and others consider as alternatives to the label of "evil", though. What value is there in "closing the knowledge gap?" I see plenty of value on the neurotypical side.

      Delete
    19. Can you elaborate on your question? I don't particularly care about labels other people choose to give.

      Delete
    20. How about from an opportunities perspective?

      Do you see any advantages that might emerge from better mutual understanding across the neurodiversity spectrum. Would they be significant enough to warrant investment?

      I am conscious that self-sufficiency is already a major benefit and renders external environment less impacting.

      Thanks

      Delete
  15. Beautiful couldn't have said it better myself.

    ReplyDelete
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    ReplyDelete
  17. My husband broke up with me last week, i was so frustrated and i could not know what next to do again, i love my husband so much but he was cheating on me with another woman and this makes him broke up with me so that he can be able to get marry to the other lady and this lady i think use witchcraft on my husband to make him hate me and my kids and this was so critical and uncalled-for,I cry all day and night for God to send me a helper to get back my man until i went to NY to see a friend and who was having the same problem with me but she latter got her Husband back and i asked her how she was able to get her husband back and she told me that their was a powerful spell caster in Africa name Dr.Unity that he help with love spell in getting back lost lover back and i decided to contacted the same Dr.Unity and he told me what is needed to be done for me to have my man back and i did it although i doubted it but i did it and the Dr told me that i will get the result after 48hours, and he told me that my husband was going to call me by 9pm in my time and i still doubted his word, to my surprise my husband really called me and told me that he miss me so much, Oh My God i was so happy, and today i am happy with my man again and we are joyfully living together as one good family and i thank the powerful spell caster Dr.Unity of Unityspelltemple@gmail.com , he is so powerful and i decided to share my story on the internet that good spell casters still exist and Dr.Unity is one of the good spell caster who i will always pray to live long to help his children in the time of trouble, if you are there and your lover is turning you down, or you have your husband moved to another woman, do not cry anymore contact the powerful spell caster Dr.Unity on his email: Unityspelltemple@gmail.com .if you have any problem contact Dr.Unity, i give you 100% guarantee that he will help you. Thank you sooooo much!!!

    IF YOU HAVE ANY PROBLEMS LIKE....
    1. Getting your ex lover back
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    4. HIV/aids spell
    5. Pregnancy spell

    ReplyDelete
  18. From what I've gathered (and I'm an empath), the hypocrisy is that 'bad' behaviour is excused or pardoned when an empath acts 'out of line' because that empath is deemed capable of remorse/empathy/understanding, and therefore the 'badness' of the behaviour is mitigated by the fact that it can be called a mistake or an aberration. With sociopaths, bad behaviour is seen as a reflection of the individual's underlying chemistry and personality rather than part of their humanity/fallibility. Empaths are more excused and forgiven. What are your thoughts on this?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Windandwater I believe that sociopaths really can't "Imagine" that nons didn't realize they were caught up in a game. It is completely outside of their line of thinking to imagine otherwise and they don't see why we would be hurt and lash out. This is not to say sociopaths are incapable of lashing out but I believe it is due to frustration rather than what nons would define as hurt.

      Delete
    2. Windwater if bad behavior is excused when done by an empath it must be so because when people notice guilt in the empath, they realize he / she is already suffering and paying for their wrongdoing. If one doesn't, it's not too unfair to expect a harsher treatment.

      Delete
    3. Anon 7:13 - this rings true to me. Is this why sociopaths sometimes say neurotypicals are stupid? I suspect it contributes.

      Windandwater: it makes sense to me. As Heironymous Bot points out (and continuing Superchick's line of thought), there's stronger temptation for us to label and write off the sociopathic person rather than addressing particular behaviours.

      I think there are reasons for this; primarily efficiency. But might other practices ultimately work better? I think it's worth trialling but this of course implies willing participation by sociopaths.

      Perhaps they too prefer to label and continue. The effort is required from both sides.

      Delete
    4. North I believe there is a profound gap in understanding. It really is amazing to me that behavior that is so detailed can be completely overlooked and filed away under a meaningless label.

      Delete
    5. Indeed! It's completely fascinating and my experience in processing the events has entailed tremendous changes to my conceptions of human nature and sociality more generally. What I'm saying is a genuine account requires significant shifts, shifts even to what sociopaths believe about human nature.

      Even epistemological shifts.

      This is why it's so difficult. To be successful, we must give credence to the "data" of sociopathic experience in the human context.

      If sociopaths want to move beyond the label, there's some heavy lifting involved in presenting their data in raw but consumable forms. This is what I've been attempting to convey here. It's not a matter of simply expecting "stupid empaths" to accept them by rights. And it's certainly not as simple as with other cases in which progress has been made such as autism or homosexuality for the fact that sociopaths cause and often delight in damage. Hello, elephant in the SW room.

      It's far more intense and involved than that and requires imaginative and investigative and philosophical work on both sides.

      This is why I ask the question of what value do sociopaths see in moving beyond the labels? It may not be worth the effort for them. That's a very strong possibility.

      For me, ripping back to those shared elements of human experience is a rewarding endeavour. But I'm not here to fight in their interests, that's a parallel but separate exercise. I can only come at it from my side of the river.

      Delete
    6. A different way to discuss is definitely needed. I've been sort of patted on the head so to speak a lot and told not to concern myself with it. That is so strange to me. Almost as if there is something everyone else is on. It makes it very taboo and I find that rediculous. Maybe it's something that everyone instinctively understands and just doesn't talk about.

      Delete
    7. Although in reality I believe it's something people think they understand-but they really don't. They also may feel they don't have any control and that's where the demonizing comes from. The evil label. Which I feels also meaningless.

      Delete
    8. Hi Anon,

      This is interesting. May I ask what you mean by "patted on the head"? It is strange that people don't want to dig deeper - by then I didn't even think to dig deeper (in this respect) until I experienced necessity.

      "hey also may feel they don't have any control and that's where the demonizing comes from. The evil label."
      I agree! But I think control is always illusion and opportunities exist in abundance in exploring as best I can the landscape before me. We each have our own styles and preference for adventure, though.

      Delete
    9. North the people who have sort of "tried to sedate my Hysteria" are people who really do have a good understanding of sociopaths. I feel almost as if it is some sort of understood "cycle" that I shouldn't interfere with-like on those nature shows when they just film. My Dr. Said not to dwell on the why but the how to deal with different personality types. I know what they mean but i feel like I get hushed. That always makes me want to dig deeper.

      Delete
    10. @Anon 5.14pm:
      "My Dr. said not to dwell on the why but the how to deal with different personality types."

      That's maybe because you are doing CBT/DBT? It's just a fact of that type of therapy; they're not bothered about the past, but trying to give you techniques to deal with your present.
      If you wanted their help to know 'why', you'd have to ask 'why did I fall for it'.
      A therapist wouldn't try to analyse someone they've never met, for your benefit; that's unprofessional.
      XK

      Delete
    11. @ North
      You are assuming a lot in your comments above.

      Moving past labels is not much of an issue to most people to whom those labels are given, especially if there is a very loose sense of self.

      It is exactly 'as simple as other cases such as homosexuality or autism.' Those people are now accepted exactly for what they are, not what others would rather they were. Both of those groups can cause 'normals' emotional damage [eg. CADD, re having a relationship with someone with ASD].

      "and often delight in damage." No point getting bent out of shape because someone is capable of 'doing whatever it takes to get the job done'. Assuming 'delight': what if they felt 'nothing much'?
      Asking 'what was the job?' would be more challenging but more illuminating.

      Assuming that hurting someone's feelings is very very bad: not everyone shares that value system. Some don't get why it's such a big deal, and they never will. There can be more important things.

      " If one doesn't [suffer], it's not too unfair to expect a harsher treatment." Why? Because they can't 'suffer'? Try that with the word 'blind'.

      What is very odd is that you seem utterly stuck in a groove at this point. People are different [neurologically]. So they're different. So they won't behave like you do. Ever. Nothing more to it than that. It's very simple to understand that. Surely.

      8-) the elephant in the SW room

      Delete
    12. That's interesting, Anon. XK's point about the type of therapy rings true for my experience.my psychologist didn't want to explore the why and that's ultimately why I stopped progressing with him and allowed my curiosity to lead the way. He had, however, taught me the basic tools of listening to myself and doing what I wanted to do. Hence the genesis of my somewhat different approach to adaptation.

      BUT I was massively assisted by psychopaths who *explained* **-*'s behaviour. One has just broken up with his girlfriend and we processed our breakups together. He had a scintillating and philosophically inclined mind. The other, a little later was a psychologist and she validated the pain I was feeling. A and others here added depth to my understanding and I've picked up enough from ME's posts and from other commenters for the puzzle pieces to click together. The picture is at least complete enough for me to move on to other elements of my adaptation.

      So keep asking! Because your brain knows what it needs to resolve the questions! 100%!

      Delete
    13. Thanks XK.

      My questions are aimed at giving primacy to the data of psychopathic experience rather than judging within extant conceptions of the human condition, including moral frameworks.

      The reason I'm not a fan of Kevin Dutton's work is that he tries to demonstrate psychopaths can be good within our current understandings and that approach rejects to a degree the validity of psychopathic experience, aiming instead to jam it into the current norms

      There is so much to be learned by exploring your paradigm. But if this work isn't done, people will continue to find it easier to bundle your anti-social behaviours into labels of rejection because it is safer and more efficient to do so. This is reality, and like I've said not my focus.

      The question I'm asking about whether you see value in these explorations is a pragmatic one. What benefit is there to psychopaths in a broadened understanding of humanity? There is less incentive for you to create a vision of it; but I see it and am drawn to it as to a great adventure, full of unknowns and possibility. Obviously, I benefit from your assistance, but I would hope it's a mutually useful endeavour.

      Delete
    14. And on the topic of data, it's worth noting that the "damage" neurotypicals experience is of a scale beyond psychopathic comprehension. That much is clear.

      It's a datapoint for you.

      What I'm pointing out with the elephant analogy is that this datapoint is a key factor affecting potential acceptance of psychopaths / sociopaths. It's the differentiating factor between your case and that of the cases I indicated, which involved accommodating less dangerous differences. As such, it's an essential consideration in any strategy for promoting acceptance.

      Delete
    15. @ North

      No, it's not a mutually useful endeavour.

      Re dangerous differences:
      Hurting people's feelings isn't dangerous.
      Killing people without guilt or remorse is.

      Dutton's approach is valid, and he's right. One can be very psychopathic, and be very 'good', as in, 'good for society'
      for example. Huge numbers are. But, Catch 22, they are not defined as such because some nitwit 35 years ago decided the label has to include a criminal record. Now the nitwit and his friends are stuck trying to define 'successful ones' as a result, without publicly doing a U-turn and looking like total fools.

      It's not appropriate for you to make declarations like "that approach rejects to a degree the validity of psychopathic experience,", as you aren't one, so you don't have the right to decide that actually.

      Psychopathic traits will be accepted when some younger bunch of research psychologists get some courage, define the traits in 'neutral' language like Dutton is doing, GWAS and standardised fMRI studies illustrate how it applies across the community population generally, and the old guard of psychologists die or become senile.

      That's the useful strategy for acceptance.

      XK

      Delete
    16. North your brain does need to know why-so you can evolve past Demonizing. I have noticed most nons are so overwhelmed by their experience and are unable to "believe " something they have no way to identify with. This is how myths are formed and perpetuated. But clinging to a myth does nothing. To say there are bad things out there that act completely different than everything you have ever known or been taught and that's just that. That's the same as finding a purple unicorn in my yard and being told sometimes horses just look like that.

      Delete
    17. I think the biggest challenge is to show that people aren't all the same. It Is-in fact a myth that most people believe. It is deeply ingrained and extremely hard to comprehend on your own. You really must have time,resources and a desire to see something that is culturally akin to the boogie man.

      Delete
    18. North I think that's the crux of why I feel so betrayed. Why is it so deeply ingrained in us all that we are all the same. We clearly are not. Why perpetuate that myth?

      Delete
    19. Hi Anon,

      You've elucidated this very clearly. I agree, it's myth-busting time.

      There's a level of effort required and the challenge is to convince those who have not yet experienced the disparate nature of our species.

      But that up front investment is tremendously profitable for the species in the long term because we can learn better practices for rejecting damaging behaviours and protecting our precious resources of time, energy, materials, access to our tribe etc.

      Delete
    20. Anon,

      I also felt betrayal. I left my psychologist's office one day stunned at his lack of comprehension.

      It's a very isolating experience.

      But the answers are there and a richer life is worth the effort of growing into.

      Thanks for sharing your thoughts, I appreciate them a great deal.

      Delete
    21. XK:

      "Re dangerous differences:
      Hurting people's feelings isn't dangerous.
      Killing people without guilt or remorse is."

      This is not how we experience the impact of psychopathic influence. It's a complete shock to see people deliberately and without provocation damage us. You might think "hurt feelings" are not much to bother about. This is a deep mistake.

      This is about resources allocated under false pretences and it triggers a very deep reaction to unfairness, including investigation into how on earth such a thing happened. These are bottom-line reactions, supercharged by feelings. Feelings are adaptive for the species regardless of whether you experience them the way we do or not.

      This is the reality of the neurotypical reaction to psychopaths. Disregarding this data leaves key information off your map. Suit yourself.

      The fact is neurotypicals are learning a great deal about how to reject behaviour that puts our personal resources - including energy - at risk. While the general understanding of psychopaths is still rather mythical, the conception is broadening and deepening that some humans operate very differently and that they pose risks. What you consider are individual weaknesses feeds into a far greater collective strength.

      Things will change in society, but it will not be about accepting damaging behaviours. Traits, yes. Damaging behaviours, no. But you will note that those good traits are by no means limited to psychopaths - another misstep on Dutton's part.

      Delete
    22. To be clear on what I mean by misstep: it doesn't demythologise, it mythologises in another direction. That direction may suit you, but it will not swim against the tide of neurotypical voices who say it's simpler to ostracise.

      The difficulty is not with the traits, it's with anti-social behaviour and that includes "hurting people's feelings."

      This is why I seek to understand the drivers and patterns and find the actual common ground upon which to create a more realistic conception of what the human condition is. From here, we break assumptions - our assumption of homogenous sociality, for example. But those assumptions will break on both sides.

      Better understanding of the human condition gives us a far better base from which to institute legal and other social institutions. This is what I mean by saying epistemological shifts must occur to give primacy to data. The models must adapt, it's the model that is flexible because it's our creation. It's broader application of the scientific method, it's learning as children do it. It's beginners mind with endless possibility.

      Delete
    23. Also, keep in mind that there are lobbies to include psychological and verbal abuse within definitions of domestic violence and research indicating there's 2.5 times the ROI in removing toxic people - no matter how good they are at their job - compared with hiring gun employees.

      It's a good thing to understand what's really at stake and what people will perceive as the best investments.

      Delete
    24. Indulging in others pain. Its not a new concept. It evolves as we evolve. It changes how it feeds. It knows what it can and cannot do. It looks to society for cues. Always

      Delete
    25. Indeed. Hence the difference from the cases I cited earlier.

      Delete
    26. "Also, keep in mind that there are lobbies to include psychological and verbal abuse within definitions of domestic violence"

      LOL Your country is full of nut-jobs. LOL There's so much upside down logic to such an approach it's better not even to start.

      You're a narcissist. Hurting your feelings is a horror for you. It's your trigger. But emotionally healthy people really are much more robust than you. Sort yourself out; then it won't be any issue for you any longer. People could be as mean to you as they like, you'd just laugh at them. Really.

      Your entire position as far as one can tell has been: I'm OK, I'm NT, my reality is the norm, don't hurt me; and that's the baseline one should accommodate to.

      Another perspective is: you're definitely not OK, you're NT ie. irrational and over-emotional, also narcissistic; so it would be stupid to accept your definitions and opinions of a situation, or what is acceptable.

      In fact it would be like accepting a schizophrenic's 'voices' as the 'real thing'.

      Perhaps it would be more useful to separate out somebody hurting your feelings [eg. the guy], from the general issue of NT's not being able to accept that 'others walk amongst them' who are callous and unemotional. That virulent antagonism against minorities is a constant and NT's seem to be very good at it. It is not, however a position from which one can take the moral high ground.

      I've finished this topic now.

      Delete
  19. Mr. Jonaid , this album draws me in , I'm such a metal girl but something draws me. Ahh, hope I'm not talking too much of my Faith, I respect all diversities of religion and my atheist friends taught me more than any Christian could. Loving thy neighbour is such a win-win.

    Drive baby drive :Dhttps://open.spotify.com/track/0yl95NPsjLkevL3FtzChpb

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You're not talking too much about your faith and thanks. I don't have a Spotify account or facebook (believe it or not!).

      Delete
    2. I find nothing more soothing and beautiful than listening to a recitation of the Qur'an. I don't even know the language yet but it can still be amazingly powerful.

      Delete
  20. Psychopaths/Sociopaths-

    Do you sleepwalk???

    ~Vegas

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Also-

      Do you find that you are "light sleepers", and easily awakened???

      NM mentioned that is the case for him, and I have also noticed that to be the case, with my husband...

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    2. I find that I'm the opposite. The second it's time to sleep, I am out completely and utterly until I'm back up. It takes a few minutes for me to readjust to being awake but right after that I'm back to normal. Not that anyone would ever want to call me a "morning person" but the adjustment between sleep and awake isn't too difficult, and it's quite hard to wake me up. I suppose it's a person-to-person thing.

      Delete
    3. Anon @ 12:10-

      Thank you for responding.:)

      I am like you, when it comes to sleep.:) People have actually had parties, and I never woke up.:) I missed out.:( I'm slow to wake up, and definitely NOT a morning person!!!

      It must be a person to person thing-good to know.:)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    4. I am a very light sleeper and will wake up at anything. I also have a hard time shutting my mind off at night. I replay everything in my head and plan out what interactions I need the next day (Such as "Don't forget to ask Lucy how her grandma is doing" or "that was probably really cruel to say, you should be extra nice tomorrow"). I've had insomnia since I was 10. Now with children who refuse sleep (they seriously never sleep, they are up right now) I am getting on average 4-6 hours a night and those aren't in a row, so it makes me a heavier sleeper because I'm just that exhausted.

      Delete
    5. ThePsychopathInside-

      Thank you, for your response.:)

      It sounds like you are very similar to my husband, in the area of sleep. Regardless of how quiet I try to be, he is awakened, at the slightest sound.

      Thank you for sharing the process your mind goes through, as you are trying to go to sleep-that is very interesting.

      What are your thoughts on your insomnia, and have you ever tried, or do you take medication to help you sleep???

      I imagine it is even more difficult to sleep, when you have children, who also do not sleep...

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    6. Vegas,
      I've tried medication in the past. And used to smoke weed to go to sleep. But now I don't use anything, except occasionally melatonin to fall asleep. Because I am up most of the night with children and don't know when they will be awake, I can't really take anything.

      As far as the thought process, I find it really hard to connect with people (obviously because of lack of emotional reasoning ) so I don't remember to become invested in others lives. So I have to replay a lot of what happened in the day so that I am not just a dick all the time.

      But some of my insomnia I can contribute to how I was raised. My mother saw sleep as a sign of laziness. And she is very productiveness driven. You can't complete projects while asleep. So I think it's just hard ingrained in my brain now. I sleep light so I'm not "caught" sleeping

      Delete
    7. ThePsychopathInside-

      Weed is nice, isn't it???

      Melatonin works well.:)

      I understand why you don't take medication to sleep, having kids.

      I also understand why you replay what happened in a day, and plan for what will happen the next day.

      My husband sees sleep as a sign of laziness, as well. He like to say, that "he'll get enough sleep when he dies". He is also very productiveness driven. You are absolutely correct, in that you cannot complete projects while asleep.:)

      Sleep in necessary. I hope you are able to get more and deeper sleep.:)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
  21. M.E.-

    Thank you for tweeting, one of the quotes I shared!!!

    "Maybe you have to know the darkness, before you can appreciate the light." -Madeleine L'Engle

    I LOVE THAT QUOTE!!!

    OldAndWise-

    I'm in "The Club" now, too.:)

    ~Vegas

    ReplyDelete
  22. PS M.E.-

    That just made me feel like:

    PrincessofChina

    ~Vegas

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. PSS M.E.-

      ...and like this...

      Diamonds

      ~Vegas

      Delete
  23. lol I love how barely any of the comments are about the actual post.

    ReplyDelete
  24. It's amusing to me to watch the world of insignificant parasites chatter amongst each other like petulant toddlers. Like I said before, I've seen very few actual sociopaths, at least one psychopath, and ZERO real empaths comment on this site. You make it so easy for us (real empaths).

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm not sure how I see you spreading either rainbows or destruction. Always interested in hearing other viewpoints, though, so shoot.

      Delete

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