Friday, January 25, 2013

You will always be my son

From a reader:


So tired of explaining my son and trying to figure out the dark mystery he is but your experience reflects a part of who my son is. At three diagnosed with Asperger's. Had some classic traits but still didn't quite fit the mold. Socially inept, uncoordinated, wanted friends but was awkward and inappropriate. The boy's IQ is 150. Thought that coping with all the Asperger's problems as a single parent with no support would be as bad as it would get. Then at 15 he had a "psychotic break" in which I came home from work as a case manager for mostly psychotic schizophrenics to find my own son crying hysterically begging me to stay away from him because he was having possible instrusive thoughts, not sure, and the urge to kill me. I stayed in clinical mode as I tried to calmly take his hysteria down and brought him to crisis. The clinician, who I knew and didn't really like me, told me to take him home and he would be okay. Oh yeah, he also told the clinician that he wanted to rape me. No big deal. I could handle it. And I did. Horrifying and heartbreaking.

At 16 he said he had begun hearing voices but I knew many clients who heard voices and my son did not present as they did. He never responded to the voices which is something people are compelled to do. Didn't make sense. Two weeks later he vividly described a visual hallucination saying that cops were at the door with guns drawn. He seemed fascinated by it. I had heard 100's of accounts of visual hallucinations and they weren't as clear as his.  About four months ago after complaining to me daily that he was having suicidal thoughts and the urge to strangle me I saw the intent in his eyes one day. Did not know this child. He was not my son. Back to crisis where he was clear and said he felt "good" in waiting area but presented as the perfect psychotic, demeanor, body language, voice when being evaluated by the clinician. This time he was taken to an adolescent psych hospital 90 miles away. I almost collapsed a few times that day during the process. I was so drained from weeks of waiting to be strangled. My denial enable me to cope but every time he would surprise me I involuntarily jumped and let out a small animal-like yelp. My subconscious knew to be scared.

While he was in the hospital everything changed as far as my perception of this innocent victim of mental illness. He would call several times a day crying and begging me to get him out. Then his voice changed and he was quite in control stating with hostility and threat that I'd better get him out AMA. One particular visit turned the switch in me. As he sat across the table crying and begging again making outragious complaints about staff and other patients I shut down and did not react. This accelerated his determination and manipulative tactics. He couldn't believe that I was calmly countering all he said. 

Then he began yelling and tried to leap across the table to get to me. I told him now I could really see the hatred and how much he really did want to hurt me. Not done, he put his hands around his neck in an effort to show he would strangle himself. His acting abilities did not impress me. I had been through so much in an effort to help him to this point, now I felt taken advantage of and betrayed. He had shown signs before of switching in seconds from the tortured victim to an arrogant kid just screwing around. He didn't know I had witnessed these incidents. And the lies were always there. He is home and still has the thoughts and urges. I don't know him anymore. Now that he knows I have caught on no more coming to me for sympathy just an uncomfortable distance. Need help. There is a Forensic Psychiatrist in San Jose, Ca not for from us, Dr. Arturo Silva, who has a theory that Asperger's can turn into psycopathic traits as a teenager. Been trying to get in touch with him but not successful. I feel in my gut he might have answers that I need. Can you help?


M.E.:

I don't know if there is anything I can do to help. If he is a sociopath, you should appeal to his self-interest. It does not help him to harm you because you are willing to financially support him through college, or whatever else it is. It sounds like he is around 17. You might want to talk to him about how when he turns 18, you will still be his mother and will support him in anyway you can, but he will be considered an adult by society. Anything he does after that could have very long lasting effects for him. Give him some facts about the average life expectancy of someone his age. Perhaps you two could "volunteer" at a prison? He should be rational enough to be educated in these ways. And if you acknowledge how he is different without judging him, things should be able to get better between the two of you. Say things like, "you will always be my son." Give him a sense of permanence. Explain to him the meaning of the phrase "don't defecate where you eat." Have him read the book "Lord of the Flies" and see how he feels about it. If he's not a sociopath, I don't think these things will work.

108 comments:

  1. Oh, this almost killed me.

    My sides can't handle shit like this.

    Please, you're too much.

    No more, I yield!
    I yield!

    ReplyDelete
  2. To the mother:
    My heart goes out to you. It seems worse than a death, as it seems like a living nightmare. I am here, if you want to talk but you have to be up for people( name withheld) trolling you and saying very hurtful and malicious things to you. If this would be further trauma, then you may want to consider not coming on. However, there are many people here who will talk from their hearts, to you. I hope you do come on and share, but if you don't I was very touched by your story and am praying for you and your son.

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  3. This woman sounds like a typical martyr type. The whole thing is about her and how much she has been through, and how she has suffered trying to mother the defective until the ingrate turned on her for no good reason whatsoever.

    Kids do not suddenly turn around and have homicidal level hatred for a parent without reason. You need to look at yourself and the way you've used your son to feed your own narcissism, and the dreadful impact it has had on him and his young life before it is too late for both of you.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I have to say I agree. This kid needed serious attention and clearly never received it.

      The mother just shut down when he was crying for help? Of course he would learn to shut himself down and flip into a different mode... you're ignoring your own child that is in clear and obvious distress. Bad parenting.

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  4. I hear what you are saying, Ellicit. However, something like this is many layered and can't be parsed out to have a simple etiology, in my experience.

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    Replies
    1. You're right, Monica, it's usually a combination of factors. Unless she becomes open and willing enough to look at the environment and her part in it forming him there's no hope for them.

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    2. I agree 100% Ellicit. You have a lot of valuable things to offer which many therapists would be too wimpy to offer or too afraid to lose the patient (i.e money) to offer. If she comes on here, she will get a great deal of truth, but it will be VERY hard to hear. However, the only way anyone can heal is with truth.

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    3. And quite the ironic truth she will get from the two of us on the subject of homicidal hatred for mothers lol

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    4. If you are psychotic and paranoid, you need safety. You get scared. Psychosis can come on suddenly, and it has a mind of it's own. There may be no history between them connected

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  5. ... He couldn't believe that I was calmly countering all he said.

    Then he began yelling and tried to leap across the table to get to me...


    You could try not invalidating his feelings and experience by 'calmly countering' it, especially when he is volatile. If you've always done that with him - that is root cause, right there.

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    Replies
    1. Ellicit, would you mind giving a phrase to that? Say I am the child and I say to you "I hate you and I am going to kill you".What kind of statement is validating to that?

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    2. People tend to seem loony when they go about milking rocks for a drop of water.

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    3. "I hear you hate me, I understand it is tough to have a mother you need to answer to, who is in charge. It must feel like jail at home. I would hate that" ??

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    4. "I can see you really hate me so much you feel like you could kill me right now. I must have made you really angry for you to feel like that, and I didn't mean to make you feel like that. I don't always see what it is I do that makes you upset or angry and it would help if you could explain what I've done or said that is making you feel this way."

      Something like that validates his experience, it doesn't try to shove the blame back onto him and it opens up the dialog on what is doing his head in.

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    5. I have been humbled because I have failed as a mother, too.

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    6. On second thoughts it was explaining to my mother, at her request, why I hate her that caused me to beat her up the last time. It's too late for trying to mend that fence with him in that way unless it's in some kind of mediated therapy situation. Invalidating him when you do communicate will just set him off even more though.

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    7. Thank you so much, Ellicit.

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    8. Would 402 would make a bad parent because it projects own feelings instead of asking what the individual feels?? Is that what the narcissist parent might say??

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    9. @429 That is that the real Monica?

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    10. Why do you say you have failed as a mother, Monica? What happened to your kid?

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    11. why do you think you failed? I'm not trying to open wounds.

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    12. Fuck off anon 5:14...

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    13. why? what do you think i meant by my question 516?

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    14. Because I said so, how about that?

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    15. Everyone always thinks people are a-holes here. A bunch of projecting dumbasses go around telling you to fuck off when they think they know where you are coming from.

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    16. I failed really badly. My son committed suicide. I failed because I was weak but I could not see it, at the time because I WAS weak. By that, I mean, it was my essence. It is as if you are an orange and you cannot be a banana. I had no idea how to be different. I failed him.

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    17. ok then, I guess I'll go fuck off now, boss.

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    18. Why did he commit suicide, Monica? Did he ask you for help and tell you how he felt?

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    19. why did you feel weak? Did he ask you for help and did you say" fuck off" or something?

      You blame yourself but couldnt he have done that even if you were strong??

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    20. Monica did your son have a pd?

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    21. stop barraging this poor woman with your probing, idiotic questions. hasnt she suffered enough? does she really need to open up and expose herself to these animals?? again?? wtf is the matter with you?

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    22. I'm trying to help this woman, that's what you don't understand. Stop making an idiot of yourself.

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    23. I'm really sorry Monica. Anon 5:46 is right.

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    24. Srsly, has Monica ONCE asked anyone here for help? She doesn't ask for it so why do you offer?

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    25. No way did I say "screw off". To me, if you have a kid who has emotional/mental issues, you failed. I suppose some people could be born with these issues, but it would be rare imo
      Hence, you failed to help that child grow up to be a functioning person. However, from a small bit of maturity, I see that a person cannot know what he does not know. He cannot see beyond his particular lens of life.

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    26. Because she helps other people and i just wanted to.

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    27. Why did he have emotional/mental issues, Monica? Why did he commit suicide? Why didn't you help him when he asked for your help?

      I'd like a question to those three questions, Monica. Focus on them.

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    28. This is what I think about this mother. If she really wants to face herself and her issues, she should come on here and listen to people, but she will have to filter out the jerks. Someone like Ellicit has a lot to offer. Someone like UKan will be a jerk and malicious, just to hurt her.

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    29. You can have a predisposition to mental illness regardless of "bad" parenting.

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    30. Anon 5:57 is trying to badger me. You have to ignore these people, on here, and I do.

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    31. That is good to know, Monica. ty

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    32. See you later.

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    33. I mean, I am getting very sleepy and falling on my face. no use to talk .

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    34. I prefer M.E.'s suggestions and encouragement over the words of the above. A support group would be great but in a private setting.

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    35. Monica why the need to slander UKan? Sorry, I don't believe you have changed or become humbler. I just don't buy it!

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    36. Slander is when something is false. UKan trolls people in a malicious way throwing out the meanest and most hurtful things he can think up. Where does slander come in?

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    37. I think slander is the proper word to use when you are telling others that he is the "Vegitopath" poster, regardless of your denial. I'm sure I could find other remarks, too. Let's not forget you're pretty nasty yourself!

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    38. "To me, if you have a kid who has emotional/mental issues, you failed. I suppose some people could be born with these issues, but it would be rare imo"

      Your opinion is idiotic and uninformed. This statement reeks of someone that doesn't want to take responsibility for their own actions and your contribution to your sons sadness.

      Mental illness has medically significant biological origin in many, many cases. In some cases it is mostly a product of the environment. In some cases it is genetically contributed. In most cases it's a mix of both. MOST CASES it's both. And the worse the environment, the worse the display of mental health issues. Being born with the predisposition towards mental illness but being raised in a nurturing, caring environment will negate some of the negative impact that occurs because you learn adaptive coping mechanisms. If you grow up in a shitty environment where your parents don't teach you to cope with the world, of course you're mental illness is going to run rampant like a deadly cancer that goes untreated by needed medication.

      I wish you could see how ignorant you are sometimes.

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    39. "To me, if you have a kid who has emotional/mental issues, you failed. I suppose some people could be born with these issues, but it would be rare imo"

      Your opinion is idiotic and uninformed. This statement reeks of someone that doesn't want to take responsibility for their own actions and your contribution to your sons sadness.

      Mental illness has medically significant biological origin in many, many cases. In some cases it is mostly a product of the environment. In some cases it is genetically contributed. In most cases it's a mix of both. MOST CASES it's both. And the worse the environment, the worse the display of mental health issues. Being born with the predisposition towards mental illness but being raised in a nurturing, caring environment will negate some of the negative impact that occurs because you learn adaptive coping mechanisms. If you grow up in a shitty environment where your parents don't teach you to cope with the world, of course you're mental illness is going to run rampant like a deadly cancer that goes untreated by needed medication.

      I wish you could see how ignorant you are sometimes.

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    40. Furthermore, you degrade him daily!

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    41. Ukan marginalizes himself by how he treats people. It would be great growth on his part, if he could use his intelligence, acumen and perspicacity for more than hurling the worst insults at people.

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    42. I guess I gave you a larger podium....

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    43. Monica it would great if you could see your own ignorance.

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    44. Haven
      No one knows the absolute roots of mental illness. We, each, have opinions based on our experience, but that is the best we can do.

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    45. emailed you haven

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    46. Haven
      monica will NEVER take responsibility for anything she does

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    47. Monica, medical science. MEDICAL SCIENCE, has studied mental illness for decades. DECADES.

      You're an idiot. And incapable of admitting that you may just not be very bright.

      Delete
  6. :) Good Morning Sociopathworld!!!!!

    Happy Friday to all!!!!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Rich! How are you?? Rich, are you looking for a job yet??

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    2. Hey Anon, Iam okay, I guess! lol!

      Yeah I just got a print out from the work force one website and they seem to have alot of jobs available at pet stores, there is even one opening at a HEAD SHOP!!!! LOL! I would fit in perfectly there!!!!!!

      How are you?

      Delete
    3. Hi Rich. I am fine, thank you.

      Pet store employee sounds like a very nice job.

      I saw a nice movie with animals. Life of Pi. I recommend to anyone very sensitive or in need to heal a pd.

      Delete
  7. I'm surprised that ME says that if he is a sociopath he will react nicely to a sense of permanence. Is that a thing that people with aspergers like to hear, or is it because the kid has the voices and is terrified them and being in a mental institution again?

    I have recently heard of a shrink saying to a friend of mine, who has a scared, flighty gf, that he needs to "be the adult in this relationship", and keep showing he is a rock and will not waver when she acts like she is leaving him. He was advised not to panic in front of her.

    Does the adult male sociopath w/o asperger's need a sense of permanence, too??

    ReplyDelete
  8. I really like the featured comment. Is Zoe?

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    Replies
    1. " if you normally suppress the present and everything you have is concepts engaged in reflection of the past and anticipation of the future, it must feel like a sudden dying."

      ^An example of a validating statement ?

      :)

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    2. The featured comment was not Zoe. M.E. has warmth along with the intelligence.

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    3. That's not necessarily validating. It's just philosophizing.

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    4. Philosophizing speaks to me as if validating my experience.

      Didnt Zoe talk about the fog a few days ago?

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    5. validating and hypothesizing. to have the present forced on you when you don't normally live in it maybe feels alien? or like you've lost the world, yourself? like dying

      Delete
  9. Hi. If there is someone who wants to see a movie for to produce self empathy i have one.

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  10. Well I don't think your son is a sociopath. Is there any way that you have stayed away from your son for some years or is he an adopted son of yours than maybe something might have happened in the past about which you don't have any idea or maybe some incident or something that has left long lasting impact on your son. Because there is chanakya's quote which can be very essential to bring up a child which says "Treat your kid like a darling for the first five years. For the next five years, scold them. By the time they turn sixteen, treat them like a friend. Your grown up children are your best friends." I guess something has gone wrong somewhere. He doesn't seem to have a good conditioning with you. No child is born evil, something is very wrong has happened somewhere. I'm not a psychiatrist so I really don't know if there is a solution, or you have lost him forever.

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  11. Mr. Birdick, what do you mean by the book 'Lord of the Flies?' how is it relevant?

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    Replies
    1. Oh, I didn't know ME was Birdick. That would be pretty funny. lol.

      Delete
  12. @Monica 5:55

    Are you saying these for sympathy here or are you truly expressing yourself? If you really believe what you are saying that is a proof that you have a hyperactive amygdala, a guilty conscience, constant self-loathing, whole nine yards. If you imposed any of that on your child, yes indeed you are not only self-damaging but you are also damaging those who give value to your views, such as your child. Your mind works in amazingly twisted ways, Monica. You're a Jewish but you sell Christianity. Then you are psychic. I am starting to believe maybe you just have low IQ and are acting overconfident instead of accepting that your brain cannot process in a rational, away from denial and projection, accepting of truth in the way it looks on paper way. If I were you I'd go get tested for IQ and if it looks low I'd relax and not try to control anyone or try to teach anyone anything but enjoy your existence just like a tree would. All creatures have a right to be happy, high or low IQ. It's not always pd we suffer from, low IQ is a valid reason for suffering if one chooses to deny that reality and behave above its potentiality.

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    Replies
    1. I was very impressed with ME's response to this lady. Very cool headed, rational and potentially affective way of dealing with reality and most importatly it is based on truth.

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    2. Everything she does is for attention. The main reason she's on here is for attention.

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    3. 6:25 I have to agree. There is no core personality.

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    4. Sceli, I have always wondered, do you have any type of personality disorder yourself? Or do you just enjoy coming here for the conversation or both? If you do have a PD, what type is it? Just curious...........

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    5. Hi, Rich. I went through a major questioning of my own actions in a period and tried to understand what went wrong in my dealing with some tough (as in sociopathic) characters and in the process came across SW and noticed how open people were when talking about their own issues and views. After going a round of what's wrong with me I concluded I was put in a tough situation and got out of whack for a while, but feel very much on a straight and fun course right now. I do have high sensitivity, high IQ, a guilty conscience checked under conscious control, and I don't give a hoot about political correctness. I pay attention to concepts as opposed to people. Based on these if anything I am a high-functioning asperger. I don't smoke, I don't use any type of drugs or regular medication, I don't go to a shrink.

      When I first came to SW I felt upset as I read how cruel/sadistic or how weak/self-destructive people were and was quite combative, especially with UKan.

      Some would, of course, say I am still combative, but I really am not, just sharing my views, I have nothing for or against anyone, but am very much appreciative of people who are comfortable in voicing their perception of their truth. These include you, Haven, Monica, UKan, even Eden. Others are not saying enough about themselves for me to recognize and they could be secondary personas of the regulars, who knows.

      I enjoy understanding human nature, mine and other's, so I stay.

      Delete
    6. I generally enjoy you Sceli. I think you probably know that though. We don't always agree, which is totally okay, and you're interesting to have around.

      Delete
    7. TEEHEE
















































































































































































































































      MONEECA LUVS VEGITOPATH TEEHEE

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      MONEECA LUVS VEGITOPATH TEEHEE

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    8. You and I share love of dancing, good figure, and cats. You are so cool-headed in writing that it always takes me an effort to believe some of the things you share about your struggle with BPD, and you make me want to still stay connected with some of the BPD'ish loved ones. I have such sincere wish for your happiness, Haven.

      Delete
  13. ME you are a stupide bitch
    someone poring out here heart and you going
    BUT I'M A SOCIOPATH blablabla
    is that charm
    if it is it's an epic fail
    yu defendly show yourself to be an insensetive aspie right now

    ReplyDelete
  14. You see the rainbow. It is in the distance. You have to climb over bodies, placed strategically in your path. You look like a solider jumping hurdles. Would you have believed it, if anyone told you it was going to be like this? At any rate, you are doing it. Step, step.

    The finish is both easy and hard. It was so much easier when you figured out the rules, but it was so fucking hard to learn them. How is that for irony?

    What is the rainbow, anyway, but your dreams melting like cotton candy, in your mouth. They were melting from the time you took your first run, but you tried so hard that you didn't notice. The scenery went by like houses and cities, observed from a train. At the end, they all melt together, but you can't tell anyone or they would look at you funny. They have to learn for themselves.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. everyone has to learn for themselves...

      Delete
    2. LET'S PLAY DR. VEGITOPATHJanuary 25, 2013 at 6:51 PM

      TEEHEE
















































































































































































































































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      MONEECA LUVS VEGITOPATH TEEHEE

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  15. Egads M.E. Lord of the Flies? Really? You really are a sociopath. Fuck.

    I hate to say it, but this woman probably wasn't a very good mother. Probably through no fault of her own b/c she's a single parent and probably had to work like crazy so she wasn't able to dedicate the kind of time or care that's required for a genius aspie child.

    Frankly he doesn't sound sociopathic to me. He sounds like he's an aspie with Reactive Attachment Disorder.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. oh no you didn't

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    2. calling here a bad mother

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    3. ;) Fucked up children don't just spontaneously appear out of nowhere. Not usually.

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    4. VEGITOPATH LOVES MONICAJanuary 25, 2013 at 6:50 PM

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      MONEECA LUVS VEGITOPATH TEEHEE

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  16. Replies
    1. Who doesn't love Stevie =) ::sigh:: If only I had someone to wish they wouldn't go. All I have is a squishy slightly co-dependent cat.

      <3

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    2. Do you love your cat, Haven?

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    3. Of course I do. Is this the part where you tell me you're going to do bad things and kill him?

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    4. No, of course not. I love you the way you love your cat.

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    5. Okay. Maybe I'm just to used to this place and have already had that conversation a few dozen times too many here. I don't usually love anonymously though but you can get a ::heart::

      Delete
    6. Ok, on a more serious note. I remember asking you if you were verbally abusive to your friends. You told me you were when you were younger. My question is, why would you do it again if you didn't like the way you felt after having abused someone you were close to?

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    7. I don't anymore. I'm very careful not to be even if they do something really dumb or make me angry.

      When I was younger it was also usually a direct response to something they did to me that was really douchey. That doesn't make it right, but I wasn't just an asshole to be an asshole.

      Delete
  17. VEGITOPATH LOVES MONICAJanuary 25, 2013 at 6:49 PM

    TEEHEE



    MONEECE EES GOEENG TOO HAV MAH BABEES AFTUR WEE GET MARREED TEEHEEE























































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































    TEEHEEE MONEECA WEELL BEE PWEGNUNT TEEHEE

    ReplyDelete
  18. That doesn't Sound like a socio, more like a schizoid...

    ReplyDelete

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