Tuesday, January 15, 2013

How to spot a liar

A reader sent me this interesting and relatively short Ted video about how to spot a liar.



She mentions two "rules":
1.  Lying takes two -- person who lies and person who chooses to believe the lie. "Everyone is willing to give you something for whatever it is you're hungry for. If you don't want to be deceived, you have to know what it is that you are hungry for." Lying fills in the gap between our wishes and our fantasies.

2.  We're against lying, but we're covertly for it. It has evolutionary value to it. Babies will fake a cry. Trained lie spotters get to the truth 90% of the time, everyone else 54%.

There was an interesting discussion halfway through about how an honest person vs. a dishonest person would deal with being confronted. This one was interesting, if anything, in learning how to lie better. Falsely accused people are furious throughout the interview, not peppered here and there was a rational detailing of events.

Lying is an interesting thing to me. I don't really think about it that often. I don't think of people as liars or truth tellers. I don't even generally think of things I have said as lies or truth. I think it's probably because I have a deeply relativistic sense of the truth. I understand more than most people perhaps that everyone has their own different reality, including me. I don't think most of the "lies" we hear or say from day to day are intentional, but just reflect the "liars" distorted view of the world. I understand that for the most part, it is difficult if not impossible to determine an objective Reality in any given circumstance so I take everything with a grain of salt. Or I take it on faith perhaps, but always with a healthy dose of doubt that will trigger when new information becomes available to me, in a Bayesian updating sort of way. I assign a likelihood of accuracy in my mind, like whether my parents are actually my parents is 98% likely to be true, based on what I know about them and me. Or sometimes a long story someone has told me is 80% true, true in some parts and not true in others and it isn't exactly clear which is which. I am sometimes (often?) wrong in my assessments. And it is true that sometimes people are intentionally But when someone has gamed me, I'm often delightedly surprised that they have managed to do it. It makes life more interesting to think that anyone could be trying to trick you at any moment, but most of the time it's not true or the stakes are so low that it just seems like the sort of toll we have to pay to live in a world of collective delusion.

Which is not to say that we shouldn't learn people's tells, because we can learn so much about a person from the way they see the world, whether they are aware of their deceit or not.

102 comments:

  1. I love you all.
    Would I lie?

    ReplyDelete
  2. Your lie doesn't matter, it matters how convincing you are. Basically you can make pretty much everything believable as long as you're convincing enough.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The problem with that is how do you really know if you have fooled someone? The best liars I have known actually enjoy playing the game. They pretend to swallow your bullshit, laugh on the inside and file it away for later use.

      I am a liar. Can't seem to help it. That's why I like to play with good liars. It makes for a fun game.
      Love seeing just how much I can get away with, when I know both parties are lying and pretending, circling each other and trying to unravel the other's webs. Paranoia adds a whole new dimension to it too.

      Most people are easily fooled. Just tell them what they want to hear, make it sound sincere and they will swallow it hook, line and sinker. Then come back for more. They are no fun. I only respect people I cannot easily deceive.

      The lies do matter. The more complicated the game, the more potential for gaslighting and getting caught, the more interesting it is.

      What a rush it is to get caught in a big lie and be able to talk my way out of it with more lies. Have had people telling me they just can't believe me, that I'm driving them crazy. So I up my game till they are happy.

      There are a few people who know some truths, but only one person who knows the real me (aka they get a lot less bullshit than the rest). They deserve better. Others seem to be relatively content with me feeding them lies, as long as I continue to be "good" to them.

      Delete
    2. You waste a lot of energy playing stupid games. Liars circling liars sounds like a great WWI scene with the Roy Brown and Red Baron sizing each other up for the kill. However you are just wasting time playing the games you discribe. What's for reward? Your own self satisfaction and to me that is the definition of masturbation.

      Delete
    3. Like I said, can't seem to help it most of the time. It does feel good to have people that I don't feel the need to lie much to, but other than that, the lies flow.
      Manipulation is the reward. Getting whatever I want, as well as an ego boost and a relief from boredom into the bargain.
      Although masturbation is good too ;)

      Delete
    4. The most convincing lie is to believe the lie yourself.

      But you have to deceive yourself into believing your own lie, which means that a liar is also more easily deceived.

      Delete
    5. The most convincing lie is one that is based on truth and told by someone who knows how to lie well.
      What you describe is often a delusion. You might believe it to be real with all your heart, but a hell of a lot of people will see straight through it. They can then use it to manipulate you.
      Granted, narcissists do follow your rule. They deceive themselves and are ridiculously easy to lie to.

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    6. Shut up Ellicit.

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    7. That's much better.

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    8. The liar is as deluded as they who believe the lie.

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    9. Ellicit is very deluded you are right.

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    10. A lie really is a downward spiral into stupidity.

      Delete
    11. You are so freaking cute, 4:06. Talking to yourself, even patting yourself on the back.
      Not every liar is deluded. Some of us know full well how full of shit we are, but know how to use for our advantage.

      Oh, and I am not Ellicit, you silly deluded creature.

      Delete
    12. [8:15], Please refer to [4:51] to gain a better understanding of your condition.

      Delete
    13. Cute.
      I'm curious, you really do consider yourself to be above lies, don't you?

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    14. Why is everything cute with you?

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    15. Not everything. Just the deluded and self righteous ;)

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    16. I reckon that it's a form of flattery, almost like sugar coating the bitter vileness of its true intent.

      I don't believe its fooling anyone though.

      Delete
    17. Well, I'd have to agree with you there. A lot of my lies are flattery to hide the sweet, sweet manipulation behind it. Or the sweeter gaslighting.

      You would be very surprised just what I've gotten away with. People love to be flattered. They like to see sweetness. Don't want to know what others really think of them. The truth hurts. So they swallow those lies eagerly.

      We've established I'm a shameless liar. I'm aware of it and I'm ok with it. It gets me what I want. As refreshing as it is not to be completely full of crap around my friend, it's hard. I find myself having to consciously stop the lies from rolling off my tongue.

      But tell me, do you honestly think that it would be better if everyone told the truth all the time? My dear lord. How the hell would society function?
      Everyone lies. I'm willing to bet even you. Some of us just accept this side of ourselves more readily.

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    18. And if you swallow the 1:33 you deserve to be laughed at!

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    19. Now who's being paranoid?
      What exactly was a lie in that?

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    20. In other words, if we don't buy the 1:33 post we are considered paranoid? LMAO

      Delete
    21. I don't accept it, because it's not like me, it's not a 'side' of me.

      There should not be any reason to lie, in any situation.

      Why do you feel a need to lie to your 'friend', to make yourself look better, is that it?

      More masking. Masking what again?

      Delete
    22. So you are saying that you never lie? Really?

      I specifically said that I try very hard NOT to lie to my friend. They get to see more or less the real me. And what's with the "friend' thing, by the way?

      Delete
    23. As I said, I don't accept it.

      Whether I've lied or not is beyond the point, I don't claim to be a saint, you're the one assuming these things.

      I made a point, you started defending yourself and assuming things, running around like a headless chicken, spewing shit all over the place.

      Delete
    24. Oh wow! This level of delusion is something rare and beautiful.

      You made statements that you thought were profound. I think they were bullshit and you sounded delightfully self righteous.

      You don't need to accept everything in order to have a conversation. Your reality is not everyone else's. Hard to believe, I know. And really, you saying that I'm running around like a headless chicken, spewing shit is just too much of a projection to resist. You must have more to offer than groundless juvenile insults.

      Consider your claims "there should not be any reason to lie, in any situation", and lying is a "form of flattery, almost like sugar coating the bitter vileness of its true intent".
      They make me think it is very much the point whether or not you lie. You are either a hypocrite or you actually do manage to convince yourself that your lies are the truth. I honestly don't know what's sadder.

      Also, you never did say what's with the 'friend' thing. I'm kind of curious about that.

      Delete
    25. I never said that my statements are profound in any way, I was offering perspective, take it or leave it.

      I don't know where you got that... Clearly you thought so.

      Delete
    26. Not really, they just reminded me of those 'motivational' statements that people like to throw around when they want to sound profound. But I'll give you that, you never openly claimed they were.

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    27. And that kids, is how you'll end up when you tell lies!

      Delete
    28. Stop encouraging children to lie :)

      I am aware of and accept my weaknesses, my lies and my manipulative nature.

      You on the other hand, have demonstrated a spectacular level of self delusion, projection and immaturity. Really should seek help for that.

      If ignorant both of your enemy and yourself, you are certain to be in peril.
      Sun Tzu

      Oh, and since you don't tell lies, what other names have you gone by here on SW?

      Delete
    29. And look there! Right through the teeth!

      Observe as it attempts to restore some validity to its statements as it pulls out some random quote!

      Even after calling itself a liar, it expects us to take it seriously!

      It's quizzical!

      Delete
    30. Really?
      You really are a disappointment. Yet more juvenile bullshit in order to avoid a direct question.

      You are buried so deep under your warm blanket of delusions that I think you are honestly beyond help.

      Delete
    31. It seems to be using what it calls 'projection', where it repeatedly hits itself over the head in an attempt to harm us.

      This guy means business!

      Delete
  3. I saw this TED video and the whole time she was talking I thought "duh".

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  4. :) Good Morning Sociopathworld!!!!

    This subect greatly interests me!

    I have a question for you members of SW, what are your specific tactics for lying?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "The best liars I have known actually enjoy playing the game. They pretend to swallow your bullshit, laugh on the inside and file it away for later use."

      LOLOL! So true!!!! I use this method myself ;)

      Delete
    2. Oh, Rich, you're so smart!

      Delete
    3. But then, again, you are monica, right?

      Delete
    4. Thanks Anon!!!!!

      And NO Iam not Monica!!!!! LOL! If I was than she would be having quite alot of conversations with HERSELF on here! LOL!

      Iam a 24 year old guy from FL! lol

      Delete
    5. "If I was *then she would be having quite a lot of conversations with HERSELF on here!"

      She has.

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    6. LOL! Well regardless of that Iam still not Monica! Iam an Empath! Dosent Monica identify as a Narcissist?

      One of my tricks to lying is to ONLY lie when it is absolutely nessicary, that way you dont have to remember much, and most people will think you arent a liar because you always tell them the truth, except when you cant/dont want them to know the truth.

      Pull out the arsenal of lies only as needed :)

      Delete
  5. First (the one to say it first). This is not a lie or is it?

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    Replies
    1. To me personally it wouldnt be a lie because you wrote (the one to say it first) after saying First ;)

      Delete
  6. 1. Does it have a penis? Spotted.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Come now... Many without a penis do it well too
      :-P

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    2. Very true Tommy ;)

      PS- You are Virus right? If you are Hey Buddy! Happy new Year!

      Delete
    3. Oh trust me, I know. I'm irritated at men today though. Hah.

      Delete
  7. 2. "Lying takes two -- person who lies and person who chooses to believe the lie."

    Is a line given by someone that wants to get away with something. It's a rationalization. It's a way to remove responsibility from the person doing the deceiving. If you lie, all of the responsibility is on you.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Both are equally responsible.

      Both are seeing from the same perspective. If you believe someone, you are in agreement, you see... Eye to eye.

      Delete
    2. False. No two people see from the exact same perspective. Because no two people are the same person.

      Personally I believe I should always take what anyone says with a grain of salt, but what another person chooses to do, is their responsibility. No one is responsible for the actions of another person. Only the individual is responsible for their own behavior. If a person chooses to lie, that is their brain, their mouth, and their behavior.

      I also disagree that you believing someone means you are in agreement. How a person views a situation may be different than how another person views a situation. I can accept that a person (even both people) believes their perspective to be the truth, but that doesn't mean either is 100% factual.

      Your entire statement is wrong using rationalized "logic".

      Delete
    3. "False. No two people see from the exact same perspective. Because no two people are the same person."

      Right on. Glad to hear you're doing well Haven. Hope 2013 is fanfuckingtabulous for ya!

      Delete
    4. So, what you're saying is...

      That whenever you believe a lie, it wasn't necessarily your choice to believe the lie, you are merely a victim, because you didn't know the truth.

      Delete
    5. I'm not saying that you shouldn't take things with a grain of salt. And I'm not saying you shouldn't fact check. That's my way after all.


      How a person responds to information/lies they are given, is their responsibility. But they are not responsible for the words that come out of someone else's mouth.

      Blaming the victim is abusive behavior, that a lot of people love to get away with. It is what it is, though.

      Delete
    6. Thanks Tommy, and right back at ya ;)

      Delete
    7. You poor thing.

      Delete
  8. Good post.

    99% of liars are just a wee bit better than people are at spotting a liar. So if you practice just a bit in seeing how people lie and what to look for, you can catch all but the best. First, you need to research and write down the "tells". Then you need to practice. At first, it will be like a test, but after a while, it will sink into an unconscious feeling - you will be able to spot one just with your gut (your gut already weeds out the bad liars).

    "You can't con an honest man"
    A massive lie like Bernie Madoff - people looked the other way because they were so blinded with greed. People who cracked him were truly objective about it - and they were able to see through the lie right away.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. To be immune to lies is to lock down your weaknesses. If you are a sociopath, then that's a problem due to impulse control but still you remain vunerable.

      The 2nd way to be immune is to be completely objective about the subject. You cannot be immune if you pass everything through a morality filter and you are just "should"ing everything.

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    2. Ever noticed how hobos don't seem to notice their own smelliness?

      Everyone else does, but they don't seem to mind.

      Delete
    3. If you're lying about it, lying and deceit probably characterizes your life.

      Delete
    4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_UXvcr22rM

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    5. LOL @ Anon @ 11:09!!!!


      I think the reason why they cant smell themselves (or maybe they can?) is because they have smelled bad for so long that they just get used to smelling it.......

      Examples of this are say when you walk into a house or a place where people have just smoked some weed (or a cig), at first you get HIT with the smell, but as time goes on and you sit there it just starts becoming normal and you dont really smell it anymore.....

      Same thing for like when you walk into a diner or someplace like that and get hit with the smell of food, than you spend some time there and you just dont notice it as much.

      Delete
    6. Why rich, it's so hard for me to believe that you're an empath. You find such pleasure in others shortcomnings.

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    7. Shut up, Medusa.

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    8. Lol maybe I just think n believe I am an empath but deep down I am really a sociopath????

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    9. Or, maybe since I can easily find faults within myself, I can also easily find them in others because I know how to recognize them???

      Delete
    10. You don't actually believe that, do you?

      Delete
    11. Rich
      One of the biggest lessons I have learned( from screwing up) is to ignore people who try to mess with me, as this person is trying to do with you <3

      Delete
    12. :) lol Thank you Monica!!!!! I wont take it too harshly ;)

      To the Anon- Yes, I do believe that, empathy can make you realize positive things as well as negative things ;)

      Delete
  9. I'm curious as to why people are not offended by being conned? Any explanations?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Other than the old stand by of N/SP liking games and puzzles.

      Delete
  10. A lie for a lie. The best way to spot.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Replies
    1. That TCO is not me. Fake tco, who are you ? Tell me or I will hunt you down.

      Delete
  12. @ TCO self-delusional bitch. How's life, boring? Or you use ambiguity to your own advantage?

    ReplyDelete
  13. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_6vDLq64gE

    -you're welcome

    ReplyDelete
  14. I have a question, what is the relation between lying and your pants catching on fire?

    ReplyDelete
  15. When you are agoraphobic and you get out of the house, you feel the the abyss tailing you, like a private eye on a fugitive, or your own shadow, sticking like glue to your back. You have to act nonchalant, as it sticks it's tongue out at you, fingers in ears. It is having a grand old time, at your expense. You can't very well talk back. You want to stop, drop, and scream, "Shut the Fuck Up". However, it wants you to do that. Then, it would fall down, in a fit of giggles, as you ran for your revolver to put it out of it's misery.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. LOL! I have Agoraphobia with Panic Disorder and that is SO TRUE!!!!!!

      Good one Up From The Sofa!!!!!!!

      Delete
    2. As you go on your out of home travels, the little bastard says, "Who do you think YOU are?" It reverberates like a hundred yodelers in the Grand Canyon. "So,you think YOU can take your place in the family of man? YOU will take your place in the family of vermin, filth" It loves to talk shit like this. I believe it, though. That slimy little bastard convinces me of this convoluted stuff until he has me begging for my head. I raise it from the guillotine and tell him I will do whatever he wants. I don't even add "within reason".I am just so pussy whipped. It is ridiculous.

      Delete
  16. As a sociopath of the misanthropic variety, I can keenly recall the lie of the "absoluteness of truth" being one of my first lessons in the hypocrisy of humans and their societies. We set up virtues for ourselves and others, and yet so many of us refuse to keep faith to them. This is why most neurotypicals are as depraved beasts, keen "to devour others, when they cannot even digest themselves"(Nietzsche).

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Misanthropic?

      Do yourself a favour by beginning with yourself.

      Back to your basement.

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    2. I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.
      "Friedrich Nietzsche"

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    3. YES YES YES.

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  17. ::sigh:: The newbs in this place are so lame.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You must be new here.

      Delete
    2. If you're talking to me, you've just shown your hand.

      Delete
    3. At least I don't have my hand as my profile picture.

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    4. It's not me or my hand so nice try at clever.

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    5. He's definitely talking to the hand..

      Delete
  18. She could not open her mouth, for fear the wicked witch would shove in the poisoned apple and it would go down her intestinal tract and stay there as an undigested blob and poison her. So, she shut her mouth, until she became frozen, a walking frozen snowman. All the millions of frozen minds, walking in lock step look like a great army, like China has. They can't think for themselves, either. I knew there was something familiar about the Chinese, besides their food.

    ReplyDelete
  19. The locked mind is the key. You locked it from the inside, but then you are like a house bound person. You wear pink, fluffy slippers, a ratty bathrobe and look like hell. You made the prison and then you go curl up inside it, as if it is a comfortable nook with tea and a book. You have become like the Chinese. You were slapped each time you ventured out, so you stayed and thought you had a cozy home, when you had a fucking hovel, truth be told.

    ReplyDelete
  20. There is too much deceit in the world and it isn't worth living in as a result.

    Oh, and women are awful.

    ReplyDelete
  21. The locked mind is the key. You locked it from the inside, but then you are like a house bound person.

    ReplyDelete

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