Thursday, June 16, 2016

Sociopath for a day

I thought this was an interesting experience, from a comment from a recent post regarding a temporary experience of not feeling (or not feeling connected to) a sense of empathy:

One day I experienced something that I'm convinced was close to clinical psychopathy. It was at the same time as lots of physical and nervous system symptoms as well, so I know it wasn't 'just psychological' or 'emotional'...it also felt very physical. 

It's hard to describe, but I'll try because I've never written about it before and it may ring a bell with someone somewhere, who knows. It was similar, I suppose, to my 'emotions cutting out' experiences, but much, much more extreme (so it didn't really feel similar at all). It felt REALLY weird - I suppose as weird as taking a mind-altering drug of some kind or being severely intoxicated - but it wasn't like any of those. (just as weird/abnormal as them). 

It was one day, on which I woke up feeling like this:

I had no 'me' sense whatsoever - I wasn't 'me'. I was a person, but there was no 'me' feeling about it. And I had 'lost my bond' with everyone - that's distinctly how it felt. I was aware of all this but couldn't 'care' or be worried or afraid because I was incapable of all those feelings - any of the feelings that normally belonged to my personality, that made me 'me'. I was TOTALLY cerebral. 

It was the most interesting experience I've ever had, in terms of an education in what was possible, how different 'experience' could be - I was experiencing something I couldn't have conceived of with my usual imagination. It actually felt very 'clean', simple, 'pure' in a way - immensely calm and clear... totally - but not like a calm version of 'me', just calmness itself - totally empty, void of any feeling (emotional, not physical). I hadn't even been aware of 'having bonds' with anyone until this experience, when one of the most obvious things, that struck me first, was that they had gone / that was gone. 

It didn't horrify or sadden me, because I was incapable of all that, but it 'concerned' me cerebrally because I saw that if someone very 'close' to me were to phone, I would have to act. I knew that could act whatever I needed to, that it was all absolutely easy (also very alien for my personality, because of my normal compulsion and liking for being open and genuine and 'natural'). At some point the thought occurred to me 'I wonder if this could be what psychopathy is like' - in those days I knew next to nothing about it and had no interest in it, but was aware that it was about 'something being missing' and that thought brought it to mind. 

I automatically thought to 'test' it by mentally envisaging the sort of thing associated with psychopathy - the worst sort of crime associated with it - was I capable of it? (something I simply couldn't do now, which is why I'm not elaborating or describing it - I literally can't contemplate or let myself mentally envisage it, and couldn't have done before this experience, or at any time in my life except for this day). As a mental experiment, having no emotional qualms, or capacity for any, I asked myself, could I commit X - and realised I could, because EVERYTHING WAS THE SAME, without any emotional 'value' attached to it - with that part of me missing, that function not operating, NOTHING effected me, there was no 'meaning'- everything was the same, it was a landscape without difference, without emotional difference, without meaning difference. I was as equally capable of one thing as another, they were all equal - just actions, that I was disconnected from, because 'I' wasn't there, there was no 'me'. 

But what I also observed - what was part of the same observation - was that neither did I have any desire to commit anything - everything was equal in that sense too, no 'value' attached. I had absolutely no impulse to do anything like the example I thought of - it was neutral, everything was neutral - and knew I wouldn't, that I was in no danger of doing anything unwanted, I simply wasn't interested. This is why, when I read sociopaths here explaining that the absence of empathy does not in itself produce - or even have anything to do with - sadism, etc - that the two have essentially no connection with one another, I know exactly what they mean and have no difficulty believing them, I know they are telling the truth. But they are trying to explain something which is simply outside the experience of normally 'emotional' people, so I also see why others can't comprehend it, can't compute it. I'd never have been able to do so without that experience that gave me a glimpse into such a different possibility of experience.

I then tested it again by picking something else which would be one of the last things I'd ever contemplate (or be capable of) doing ; Could I run up and down the street naked? Ye - it would mean literally nothing to me. No fear, no excitement, no anything - nothing was producing any kind of emotional response or 'meaning' in me internally. 

It was a fascinating and very eye-opening experience. I realised that all these things are emotional functions, and that if emotional function becomes impaired or drops out, this is what is left. Cerebral function alone is a very very different experience. It is not IN ITSELF bad, good, or anything. Bad and good are emotional entities, they belong to that side. It doesn't 'exist' in the cerebral side, which is all I was experiencing that day. The only trace of 'personality' I could detect at all - and it was tiny, and not really anything like my normal 'composite' personality in any way - was the very slight feeling now and again of what I'd imagine a playfully mischievous seven year old boy feels like - that's the best way I could describe it. But even that wasn't strong enough to influence or impel me in any way. I simply got on with doing my income tax return, as it was the day before the deadline and I had no choice. 

To my amazement, I was better at maths (calculations) than I'd ever been in my life - the absence of emotional 'reluctance' (huffing and puffing and grumbling) that normally goes along with it for me (which, again, I only became aware of by its unusual absence this day) made it ultra-easy, straightforward, and made me remarkably efficient. I was getting this right first time, for the time ever! 

The only real difficulty I experienced was towards the end of the day when I came to fill out the tax return online and discovered that I couldn't process the meaning of written language - I could read the words fluently, but after reading a paragraph I had taken in no meaning from it - I couldn't tell you what it had actually said, or meant.

It was the weirdest thing. But it showed me what is possible when parts of the brain are being effected or prevented from functioning normally, and the fact that it could reproduce what I am sure was something very close to clinical psychopathy, I found extremely eye-opening and interesting. (I woke up the next day normal, by the way. The 'me' feeling was back and I've had it ever since).

263 comments:

  1. I can think only of framing experiments.

    Interesting.

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    Replies
    1. North-

      Can you believe this???

      ~Vegas

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    2. North-

      I wonder, if this is what happened before...

      ~Vegas

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    3. THE APOCALYPSE

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    4. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    5. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    6. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    7. I mean to say, why are you asking me after all the supposed abuse I threw at you?

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    8. ME-

      Have you even seen this, before????

      ~Vegas

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    9. North-

      I wanted to know, if you felt like you've entered the "Twilight Zone".:)

      ~Vegas

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    10. North-

      Now, she is signing as me. The 2:18 AM post, was not me...

      ~Vegas

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    11. North-

      Now that she is doing that, I think I will take a break from this site for awhile. If there are any more posts with "Vegas", it wasn't me...

      ~Vegas

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    12. No, North isn't abusive to Vegas. Vegas asked a question and there are three deleted posts.

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    13. North thinks Vegas crossed the line multiple times and doesn't like feigned innocence. That doesn't mean North wants a war if North feels cross.

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    14. North is unstable.

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    15. North is a narc.

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    16. This is fun, but I don't do it so well as you. I'm sure I'll learn.

      Delete
  2. Third!
    Well I was hardly first but no one else had doe it. Don't you people sleep?

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  3. I have got to wonder
    a) what could cause that
    b) Could the opposite thing happen to me?
    I would loath waking up one morning all feely n shit...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You're safe! Mercury caused it.

      Delete
    2. You might not though. You might find them to be amazing resources to harness.

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    3. @PP
      b) yes. just depends what your abuse triggers are & how prolonged/extreme the new stressor.
      tried to explain before. No answer from you.

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    4. bitter and crankyJune 16, 2016 at 5:18 AM

      tried to eh

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    5. bitter and crankyJune 16, 2016 at 5:22 AM

      too haughty

      Delete
    6. bitter and crankyJune 16, 2016 at 6:06 AM

      this one's an imposter

      Delete
    7. bitter and crankyJune 16, 2016 at 6:07 AM

      no more from me

      Delete
    8. bitter and crankyJune 16, 2016 at 6:08 AM

      all imposters now

      Delete
    9. bitter and crankyJune 16, 2016 at 6:11 AM

      shut up imposter

      Delete
    10. bitter and crankyJune 16, 2016 at 6:14 AM

      606 607 608 all imposters

      Delete
    11. i am haughty and a pretender. please forgive me. i was wrong. 8-/

      Delete
    12. Still talking to yourself, eh?

      So this is how you obligate people to pay attention to you, when they reject you for being such an awkward little kreep?

      By creating puppets, and forcing yourself on every interaction here, even though folks have made clear that they don't appreciate you, or your "kontributions"?

      I've rarely seen anyone go to such lengths to get attention.

      You've gone off the deep end, spaz.

      Delete
    13. A
      "You've gone off the deep end, spaz... I've rarely seen anyone go to such lengths to get attention."

      Not much on self-reflection then.
      Sock puppets huh. Not your strong point. A can only be A. Not fluid or flexible. Brittle. Narc.

      Delete
    14. So... Because I *don't* go on rabid shit-posting sprees in which I create masturbatory sockpuppets to prop up my flailing self when I'm challenged, I'm a an inflexible narc.

      How silly of me to have overlooked this about myself. How lacking in self-awareness!~

      Thank you, Kat, for the object lesson on how to be a Real Sociopath(TM), and not a narc.

      And flexible? I beat you at your own game, by exposing it, and turning it against you.

      Sock puppets huh. Not *your* strong point:

      A is A

      K pretends

      A sees K

      Rigid. Uptight. Brittle. Narc.

      :P

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    15. A-

      You keep reinforcing my "girl crush" on you!!!

      Nice job exposing K.:)

      It reminded me of this song!!!

      WhatIf

      Here are the lyrics:

      I can't find the rhyme in all my reason
      I've lost sense of time and all seasons
      Feel I've been beaten down

      By the words of men who have no grounds
      Can't sleep beneath the trees of wisdom
      When your ax has cut the roots that feed them

      Forked tongues in bitter mouths
      Can drive a man to bleed from inside out

      What if you did?
      What if you lied?
      What if I avenge?
      What if eye for an eye?

      I've seen the wicked fruit of your vine
      Destroy the man who lacks a strong mind
      Human pride sings a vengeful song
      Inspired by the times you've been walked on
      My stage is shared by many millions
      Who lift their hands up high because they feel this

      We are one we are strong
      The more you hold us down the more we press on

      What if you did?
      What if you lied?
      What if I avenge?
      What if eye for an eye?

      I know I can't hold the hate inside my mind
      'Cause what consumes your thoughts controls your life

      So I'll just ask a question
      A lonely simple question
      I'll just ask one question

      What if
      What if
      What if
      What if
      What if I
      What if
      What if
      What if
      What if
      What if I
      What if
      What if
      What if
      What if
      What if I
      What if
      What if
      What if
      What if
      What if I

      What if you did?
      What if you lied?
      What if I avenge?
      What if eye for an eye?
      What if your words could be judged like a crime?

      What if
      What if
      What if
      What if
      What if I
      What if
      What if
      What if
      What if
      What if I
      What if
      What if
      What if
      What if
      What if I
      What if
      What if
      What if
      What if
      What if I

      ~Vegas

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    16. Wow thanks Vegas that's fucking great

      Delete
    17. Anon @ 7:36-

      Glad you liked it.:)

      Creed's "Human Clay" and "My Own Prison" albums are AWESOME!!!

      THEY ROCK!!!

      ~Vegas

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    18. It was a joke

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    19. Anon @ 7:35-

      Did you like K's "sock puppet" show???

      ~Vegas

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    20. what do you think?

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    21. Do you think she thinks?

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    22. Minimal evidence, I'd say

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    23. it depends what they mean by thinks

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    24. What we need is a full stop

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    25. Why is that nice?

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    26. Anonabove, which planet are YOU from, now? I'm betting Mars

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  4. I have got to wonder
    a) what could cause that
    b) Could the opposite thing happen to me?
    I would loath waking up one morning all feely n shit...

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    Replies
    1. why twice? see above

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    2. Computer glitches abound today.

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    3. Puppy Basket
      OK, got that. Will wait patiently.

      Delete
    4. You'd be surprised. Real feelings are like a life force and the source of real joy & love. I know "sociopaths" fear them but they must have extremities in mind and fear of being "weak" or vulnerable. They could not be more wrong.

      A relative once said "I HAVE FEELINGS! HOW DO I KEEP THESE?" - he was on molly at the time. He told me he had feelings once (long ago) and even agreed to open up and tell me everything that's how HAPPY he was with his feelings.

      A former friend was never more beautiful, never more loveable and visibly at peace than when he was on molly...because he too was experience true feelings without fearing them and turning away from them. He said "I'm just smiling watching these guys' smiling (his friends with him)."

      I'm not advocating molly here nor am I attributing the ecstasy these guys experienced to molly. Molly was just a means for these people to experience what some lucky folks experience naturally. I had that feeling naturally a couple of times in my life, when I fell in love.

      There are sociopaths who know their craving this but don't admit it. Then there are sociopaths who are subconsciously craving it and don't even know it. They envy happy people but instead of aiming to be like them, they lie to themselves and others and claim to be superior.

      Don't believe anyone (including yourself) who tells you your neurology is fixed and you can't experience this. It takes one gifted, pure-hearted person to open your heart...if you want it opened.

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    5. Actually I've had that feeling many more times than just falling in love.

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    6. how many times?

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    7. what's the answer?

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    8. I need a pen and paper for that

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    9. Yes, please explain

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    10. Yes, but how to explain?

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    11. To thank or to slap; that is the question

      Which is nobler, Jonaid?

      Delete
  5. From previous comments:

    "Anonymous, you are wrong. We are not all child abusers. Sociopathy is a spectrum, and it can be managed like other mental health disorders. Are all depressed parents abusive? How about all parents with anxiety disorders?"


    This type of thinking amazes me.

    Sociopathy = all social interactions are pathological.

    Depressio = i feel depressed

    Axietey disorder = Anxiety disorders are a category of mental disorders characterized by feelings of anxiety and fear, where anxiety is a worry about future events and fear is a reaction to current events.

    Comparing the abusiveness of these things is purely idiotic. When the whole definition of sociopath IS that you are abusive person. You are, and always will be. If you are not, then you are not a sociopath.

    Go check out Sam Vaknin, he is the most self aware narcissistic psychopath (diagnosed for both, yes.. they are so similiar) you can find. Does it make any difference? No. He is still abusive person and admits it.

    Please do not try to sugarcoat sociopathy (actually psychopathy, as there is no difference.. unless you wish to sugarcoat psychopathy and come up with this "mild & friendly" psychopathy). If person with sociopathy is so much in control of his/her personality, then why does he/she need the mask? To mask her/his core personality.. that is abusive.

    Neither i said that every psychopath is child abuser, i just noted that they go even there in their abuse. But they are always, abusers. If they weren't, they would not be sociopaths. There is no sociopath that does not abuse. EVERY social encounter is a change to abuse, on one way or another.

    Even this blog, is way to distort your mind & image of sociopaths. She is probably laughing her ass off of all the crap you people swallow from her.

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    Replies
    1. Lolz paranoid much? There are plenty of sociopaths who get their jollies in constructive instead of destructive ways. Mostly older ones. I do admit to being abusive when younger. Sociopaths can change is the point.

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    2. Anon 10.06am,

      "There is no sociopath that does not abuse. EVERY social encounter is a change to abuse, on one way or another."

      [Is English not your first language BTW? or was it a typo: 'change' is 'chance'? I'll assume typo.]

      You're right. It is always a chance to abuse. Some people abuse for fun, some out of ignorance they're doing it, some are very selective whom they abuse, but there's always that chance. However, it's not invariable ie. someone can choose not to. It usually depends on level of personal control. In the case of psychopathic individual it's usually how high their innate level of 'angry hostility' and 'self-discipline' are, measured according the Five Factor Model of personality [current in personality psychology].

      "If person with sociopathy is so much in control of his/her personality, then why does he/she need the mask?"

      There is a flexible fluid set of responses. If you want to call that a personality, it could be regarded as such. But not very fixed. And no investment in it much. No mask, just facets. If people term that a mask, that's their language choice. It's a style of responding dependent on the personality of the recipient, and on required outcome. Again, that can be dependent on level of self-control.

      "Comparing the abusiveness of these things is purely idiotic."

      True. There is a difference between personality disorders DSM Axis II and mental illness like anxiety and depression DSM Axis I. To confuse them unfortunately is a common issue. However, what is similar is that both sets of mental disturbances include behaviours which either self-harm and abuse or harming and abusiing others, without being aware of it due to their disturbed mental state. However, some of the Axis II, Cluster B PD's have features where they abuse others on purpose, with full knowledge of what they do, without caring in the least. That is regarded clinically as even more disturbed.

      "this "mild & friendly" psychopathy"

      One can be mild and friendly mostly. Then not. Then go back to mild and friendly. Some people find that confusing. Others are not friendly much, an example is the co-morbidity of ASPD and primary psychopathy, or NPD and ASPD. There are self-control issues at play in such cases, usually lack of it.

      Everyone's different, so it's best not to have too many stereotypes about it.

      [ME] "is probably laughing her ass off of all the crap you people swallow from her."

      Probably. A lot of people are very happy to swallow a lot of crap, if it provides them with amusement. However, some do not swallow it. That's the human race for you. Diverse.

      Delete
    3. If person with sociopathy is so much in control of his/her personality, then why does he/she need the mask?

      We are all playing theater. Even the ones that, assume they are perfectly "normal". How could we otherwise? We are all learning through imitation.

      Anonymous: Sure, if the psychopath could only wear the mask of the sociopath, that may be helpful, nevertheless. They could be more easily shunned and ostracized. The world would turn into a paradise with only amiable folks around. ;)

      Come to think of it, why did this line of thought not enter my mind, when I read the host's book a couple of years ago?

      No idea, but I think it didn't at that point. The exchange triggered a memory chain from a long time ago. Maybe we only recall these matters, when we play act for a special reason. When it is, consciously not "natural".

      Have to re-read the passage with the popular musician. Was there some type of competition involved in the larger setting? Don't recall. Not that such a setting would be similar to my conscious memory trail triggered in the here and just now.


      Anyway: Erwin Goffman, Self-Presentation of Self in Everyday Life

      The title of the German translation is by the way: We all play theater, Self-Presentation in Everyday Life.

      And for the record, I am German. Not that I can imagine to use the "k" spelling above. Change - chance, wouldn't put myself beyond such a typo. But saw it frequently in native speakers' texts too. ;)

      Delete
    4. Not careful enough, should have proofread. One comma is a bit superfluous and here it went off.

      "if the psychopath could only wear the mask of the psychopath and the sociopath only that of the sociopath ..."

      I guess that's where I intended to go.

      Bye-bye, birdies.

      Delete
    5. "for the record, I am German."

      Then it's best not to use colloquialisms. It won't do any good to confuse, with sentences like: 'they're having a bit of a barney up top, but they'll pull their head in soon' then. 8-)

      K@ > KATze

      It is a good point to make that all try to impression manage. It is indeed strange that 'normal' people blame only psychopathic behaviour for that. An inconsistency. Perhaps just another thing suitable for blame, they think, unable to assess themselves as less than 'genuine'.
      It seems like a competition often, yes. Perhaps the concern they play less well.
      It is good to talk to someone from Europa. Perhaps a name other than Anon, if you will consider staying?

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    6. Typo: 'the concern is'

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    7. Anonymous 10:06

      You are correct. By definition sociopathy denotes a pathology; something negative. I've made this point several times on this blog when I started participating here. Does that mean all "sociopaths" are "evil" or "bad" people? I would argue no. It is possible to be abused into the condition & be genuinely ignorant: not knowing any better, or not having the strength or willpower to overcome your condition.

      It's the ones who lie and distort reality KNOWINGLY, in full awareness of their condition and it's origins who are the real trouble-makers. If you choose to accept your sociopathy as a innate and OK part of you, and are happy to be one, than you're a bad apple. There's no getting around that. That's why, as you said, they hide behind masks and are bent on destroying others, obessed with "power" etc. etc.

      Changing the definitions or the intended meanings of words is in itself a psychopathic trick. You're right on that one too. Again, that does not all who call themselves sociopaths fall into the camp.

      Delete
    8. They do know they are abusive, how could they miss it? Be serious. You are like 110% ready to be victimized.

      There is a whole weird cult like following to these things, were people think there is some sort of "good" sociopath. Who is in perfect control etc. And oh, they would make so good at such & such profession. Every one of these people disregard the abusive personality that it is. Like you could just remove that part, and it would be all good. Just does not work like that.

      If you know anything, reading these blog posts SCREAM of the definition of the disorder. Like the last post, a recurring theme. "They need our abuse". A clear symptom of the disorder. But people do not notice it. They discuss it like it would be some sort of valid point. They are so deep on this shit. And then they start to argue using points made by the sociopath. Hah, that is just crazy.

      Then they go into the "well everyone is evil". And all the retarded bullshit.

      Delete
    9. I agree with everything you're saying. I'm going to the extreme when I say some are "ignorant" - I mean some sociopaths really don't know HOW to be a better person. It's not that they are innocently deceiving or don't know they're deceiving. They do and they should be called out on it...I'm talking about an overall judgement on any single individual.

      Again you're right on the main point though. Personally I've only really been screwed by 3 narcs / psychos. 2 of them were in the family who I blindly trusted. The other was a friend...I wasn't in my best state of mind at the time (having just realized what my family did). Don't be afraid of psychos they're stupider than you think. They think just because we don't call them out each & every time - and don't assume anything without ample reasons - that we don't know. I now watch and see how they waste their energy trying to deceive. If I didn't believe in God I'd have a lot of fun with them...playing their own game against them. Thankfully someone far more capable is on to them: God. Let them play in the meantime.

      Delete
    10. When I say some don't know "how" to be better I mean their hearts need a boost. This, however, only works with a "socio" who's deep down a good person but was somehow abused into sociopathy (i.e. narc parent (s), too many betrayals etc.). All the others are like a virus: neither living nor dead. Only God can deal with these types.

      Delete
    11. And anon 4:41

      Get an ID and become a regular. This place can use more sane people. Most visitors come here to be openly frivolous (their real selves) and others claim to be "neurotypical" but all that comes out of their keyboards is cleverly articulated BS. I participate because I'm almost obsessed with countering the BS spewed out by pathological liars.

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    12. I don't

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    13. And rigid

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    14. Until he calls you a Jinn for your meandering, deviant, duplicitous, deliberate behaviour. Watch out, now, you basest of psychos.

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    15. Atomic sour

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    16. Uber die brucke
      Which one?

      "rigid" - many hfASD are, while still sweet.

      Delete
    17. Half-assed? I dare say all of them

      Delete
    18. One cheek? Or two quarter moons?

      Delete
  6. It's a powerful, life-changing thing to realise our own experience of the human condition and indeed reality is purely contingent. It could have been otherwise.

    To generalise Lola's comment of her thoughts being her own private entertainment, we can say our cognitions and capacity to construct realities in personally particular ways are our own private resources for living.

    Lola's point was that we need not take ourselves so seriously.

    How much more the case when we can regard our experience not as an instantiations of absolute or part thereof, but as a fully valid, fully colourful, fully continuous part of all reality. Not distinct or merely inheriting from an abstracted absolute. We are liberated to embrace our own being.

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  7. It is actually possible to turn off several brain functions through TMS. But this does only work for a few minutes... not a whole day. But it might be possible to reproduce a state of mind where you have no emotions.

    Aswell it is possibly to lower your empathy with several drugs. Suggestion for the original writer: check your meds ;)

    An interested reader.

    ReplyDelete
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    ReplyDelete
  9. "nothing was producing any kind of emotional response or 'meaning'"

    AND

    "I could read the words fluently, but after reading a paragraph I had taken in no meaning from it - I couldn't tell you what it had actually said, or meant."


    I'm very interested in the role of emotions to the feeling and experience of "meaning."

    Emotional experiences are known to influence learning.

    I've had for many years an idea that we experience resonance as "meaning" - the more linkages we can make to a particular experience, the more resonant it is, and the more we feel it has meaning to us. [This is why I like The Matrix movie - I find all sorts of connections to ideas that appeal to me but also to mythological and cultural and personal symbols from my childhood. Just an example.]

    I wonder does emotion play a significant role in this association process, thus bearing out this influence on experience of meaning?

    With **-*, I complained that the first phase of the relationship had "no meaning." and I reflected since that by "meaning" I meant connection - I couldn't feel connection with him.

    I think resonance - linkages between ideas and experiences - is important; our brain is signalling something is important or valuable or pleasurable.

    I'm wondering: how do sociopaths experience resonance and meaning in general?

    Cheers

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  10. North I think that is an amazing question. One that I have wondered. The responses to emotions I had were many times reciprocated with recalling of events. Bonding experiences I'm guessing is how they perceived it. But there was never any depth beyond that. That was the depth? I immediately found it strangely unnatural. They could trigger Emotions-descriptive emotions in me but I couldn't in them.

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    1. North I believe it also helps explain how I feel nothing for Them-less than nothing. Everything surrounding them has lost its meaning.

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    2. I wonder if sociopaths experience resonance and meaning more thru negative emotions.

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    3. "North I believe it also helps explain how I feel nothing for Them-less than nothing. Everything surrounding them has lost its meaning."

      I completely understand this. It's like a holograph switches off.

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    4. "I wonder if sociopaths experience resonance and meaning more thru negative emotions."

      I wonder if any one would like to address? It's really interesting.

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    5. don't forget the socioempaths

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    6. @Anon,

      "Everything surrounding them has lost its meaning."

      I've wondered about this, too. So much meaning in organic life forms is derived from emotions.

      Feelings are part of our sense of touch -- fear, loathing, pride or love are physical sensations, generate chemicals, trip electrical switches.

      Perhaps that is why those who are emotionally shallow, like M.E., avoid playing with knives, and why others whose threshold for pain is high enjoy erotic knife-play?

      Mr. Hyde

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    7. Please don't

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    8. Mr Hyde we are very electric creatures. It seems that electricity is conducted in different ways by socio and nons. Some people seem to be surging with electricity. I have definitely experienced that. I don't know if it was me or them or combination but it was definitely there. But really connecting with someone is something even more than generating electricity. It is that extra something that you can't exactly explain.

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    9. "Feelings are part of our sense of touch -- fear, loathing, pride or love are physical sensations, generate chemicals, trip electrical switches."
      Circuits.

      Personally, I had several completely different circuits triggered yesterday. I felt safe, I felt distinctly isolated from justice, I felt oppositional with a colleague. Each a distinctly different experience of myself.

      "But really connecting with someone is something even more than generating electricity. It is that extra something that you can't exactly explain."

      Anon, I've thought about this, and I think maybe I feel more connected when I feel the other person recognises me as a distinct person in a particular state, even if they're not able to qualify that state. I try to do this with my sons.

      I know what you mean by the surging electricity. I like surge protectors now, and am learning how to install them.


      I have a growing feeling that communication is sub-verbal; that the energy is the more pertinent element to read.


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    10. Subverbal is subtext.

      Between the lines. Reading.

      Mr. Hyde

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    11. It's harder, I think, Mr Hyde, because where it's less obvious, you must rely more on patterns. Patterns take time to establish.

      How do you do it?

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  11. Honestly y'all sound like a bunch of losers, "emotionless" and shit xD

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  12. Swop-

    You still there???

    Did anyone answer your "branding" question???

    ~Vegas

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  13. Who do you think are the sociopaths on this blog?

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    1. don't forget the socioempaths

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    2. wtf is a socioempath

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    3. some kind of twat I think

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    4. More twats?

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    5. Never enough

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    6. Why's that?

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    7. Almost everything the body needs

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    8. Are you this Fodder?

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    9. bitter and cranky answer Anonymous now

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    10. Bitter Fodder?

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    11. I am the Fodder. The Queen Fodder, the Fodderest of all the Fodders. All other Fodders are my puppets. 8-)

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    12. A_rsenic at 3.01 am

      K@? still, very obviously, A.

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    13. Really? It's A? Are you sure?

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    14. No fucking way. Kat's on a crazytrain that I have no intention of boarding. From now on, when I post, I will use my account.

      I guess this is her way of trying to rile people up against me.

      Apparently I triggered her badly. She's obviously very unstable. Hopefully she'll settle down in a bit.



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    15. I agree.
      From now on, I will post only under this account. She's gone completely off the rails, and felt the need to masquerade as me and insult me for some reason.

      A shame, really. Some people have a really thin skin.

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    16. As it happens, it's you two that are on the crazy train here, in accusing Kat of all this. She had nothing to do with it, and didn't know who it was anymore than you did. And you've been ranting at her all this time with no reason and no fking idea what you're doing. Because you're a pair of cunts who do stuff like that. You're clueless. I was bitter and cranky and it was just a bit of fun, as it was for you. I was nicer to other people because I like them more - and because they didn't engage me and goad me like two did. You were equally abusive but to the wrong person. You owe her an apology. I don't expect she'll get one, but you owe one. So, anyway, it's you two that can settle down now and consider what fucking idiots you've been. I'll sign in after this and then I'm off, so there's no point ranting at me either. You're a pair of clowns.

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    17. Weird. every so often this site is plastered by psycho BS. Why bother? Seems pointless. Puppet posts are so boring.

      Mr. Hyde

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    18. That bitch has done flipped the crazy train. Choo-chooooo....

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    19. Bitches, actually.

      Call it clearing out the cobwebs if that helps.

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  14. Perhaps a new main topic could be written about the interesting subject: "the old view" on the socio as just a scoundrel? A picture far removed from modern days "anti-superhero". Just, for example, a hopeless drunk or petty criminal doing his routine over and over again, forever promising to stop. Not feared like today, more seen as "hopeless case" or strange..

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    Replies
    1. A more rounded view would be good. I like reading the blogs of ThePsychopathInside and Nihilistic Mind for this reason.

      I suppose any characterisation / shared analogy is a caricature but we can keep refining it. Reminds me of the Ricky Gervais parody of an older characterisation of autistic people.

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  15. Agency.

    Constraint on our own agency feels like an assault on our self; at a primal level there are some serious triggers here and for a reason: we intrinsically want the capacity to obtain what we need to survive. Where our action is constrained or our judgement disregarded, or our safety risked, the impression is of assault and it MUST be combatted.

    Our physical survival is almost predicated on our ability to act.

    Agency is therefore perceived as a real-time survival requirement. Blocks are treated as threats and responded to with hostility.

    Experience can teach us to find alternative paths to desired outcomes, or to moderate our expectations of the environment. Practice at scanning the environment helps us understand when something is truly a threat to our agency or when it is merely a hologram or hurdle; the reality is we always have choice and regardless of how big an obstacle is, we therefore always have agency. It's a matter of mapping and plotting a course.

    I think our feeling of agency is very closely tied to our sense of identity. I also think it's wise to separate the two. What is identity anyway? Sociopaths know all about agency but not identity. Identity is largely a construction, a negotiation or synthesis we come to through our interactions with others. It excludes so much of our physical organism - we rarely consider the operations of our cardiovascular system or our blood chemistry within it. It's a social phenomenon.

    I think we achieve agency partially through identity; which perhaps goes a way to explaining why sociopaths are so flexible with their identity: it's less of a social negotiation and more of a deliberate construction based on the social context because social information is processed differently. But the purpose of the mask or temporary identity is very much agency.

    I'm speculating - sociopaths, would you like to share your experience of agency as it relates to your masks? Point out how to refine my understanding? Thanks heaps!

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  16. North I think you are asking some very interesting questions. And yes it does feel like a betrayal of oneself to ignore mistreatment. I was thinking today how damn hard it is to keep my mouth shut. That's a good thing right? I feel much more connected to Myself-like I know I'm right about so many things-yet I choose to be disconnected in a way. Its very hard to find peace with.

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    1. For whatever reason I relate a lot to that scene in Pulp Fiction where he tells Bruce Willis that's just his ego fucking with him.

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    2. Actually I relate a lot with Bruce Willis character. At what point do you realize your not going to throw the fight.

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    3. I'm so glad you write - these things that I went through, that I processed. I was alone then. I write from the place I have landed at, in a way, after finding that balance.

      "I was thinking today how damn hard it is to keep my mouth shut. That's a good thing right? "
      This felt to me the greatest injustice that at one point overwhelmed me. I wanted to take revenge because no one around me, society, couldn't understand. My work colleagues would talk about him fondly, or even just normally and I wanted to scream he's not like that!

      But people tend to trust their own judgements.

      So I eventually accepted that. And accepted that I felt wronged. And accepted that I was very angry about that and wanted reparation. This was very difficult - why was I having these aggressive thoughts? But I let them be, I let them flow through me and researched them. Tried to understand the signals. Ultimately, I accepted there is an evolutionary basis even to these feelings of revenge, and linked them to a drive for fairness, for equitable treatment.

      I had to let the dissonance flow through me, to make space for that. Because those competing signals were from part of me - to let their energy flow right through gave my own brain the information it needed to resolve that.

      Sometimes, it's just a matter of feeling the confusion. The brain resolves it and then we have a better understanding about our own selves and the environment.

      Here's an interesting article about the Complicated Psychology of Revenge

      The long history of vengeance in art suggests a basic instinct for retribution ingrained in the human spirit...

      Pervasive as this revenge instinct may seem, modern civilization can feel fortunate that resisting the urge to retaliate is even more common. The decision to forego vengeance is not necessary born of human kindness; on the contrary, the body may have evolved some type of internal scale that weighs the adaptive benefits of revenge against its various costs — from the potential for retaliation to the severance of important relationships. More often than not in today’s world, this scale tips in favor of forgiveness.

      I don't think forgiveness is quite the word, in my case at least. In my case it is simply better understanding.

      I am sure you will find your own way to peace, Anon.

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    4. I haven't seen Pulp Fiction. Maybe I'll add it to my list

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    5. Never listen to anyone who hasn't seen Pulp Fiction.

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    6. List, list, ohhh list

      This is fun.

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    7. North needs to get a life.

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  17. In the name of God, The Compassionate, The Merciful:

    "And the Garden will be brought nigh for those who ward off (evil).

    And hell will appear plainly to the erring.

    And it will be said unto them: Where is (all) that ye used to worship

    Instead of God? Can they help you or help themselves?

    Then will they be hurled therein, they and the seducers

    And the hosts of Iblis (Satan), together.

    And they will say, when they are quarrelling therein:

    By God! we were certainly in manifest error,

    When we made you equal with the Lord of the Worlds.

    It was but the guilty who misled us.

    Now we have no intercessors

    Nor any loving friend.

    Oh, that we had another turn (on earth), that we might be of the believers!"

    Qur'an 26: 90-102

    Qur'an

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