Wednesday, May 11, 2016

Against Empathy

I think I tweeted this, but it is worth its own post. Paul Bloom explains in this video for the Atlantic how empathy is a bad thing:

I didn't tweet this link to the "Notes" section of the Atlantic related to this, featuring a commenter's assertion re sociopaths:

Empathy is what allows us to navigate day by day. A human without empathy is a sociopath or a robot. The way empathy is discussed in the video is so flawed by mixing it with altruism, which is very different than empathy but is more closely aligned to the charity model discussed. And do not kid yourself: Altruism is a “what’s in it for me,” while empathy drives connections towards others.

The comments are also predictably outraged


  1. FIRST!!!



    1. XK-

      I didn't post a song today-look what happened.:(


    2. Anon 2-

      Your writing reminds me a lot of North.:)


    3. Thank you Vegas :) That's a compliment!

    4. Anon 2-

      Is that a compliment because you are North, or a fan???


    5. You thought I actually was North? No. Compliment because she's a good writer.

  2. Then why are people without empathy causing so many problems. Also if you have no empathy you have no reason to help others. People with no empathy are egoists for that reason. On this site half the posts are about how sociopaths destroy other people for the fun of it and because they cant do any other way, and then you post on how empathy is bad? Odd.

    1. Yeah...
      the other odd recurrent argument is that socio-dicks aren´t responsible for being dicks cause they are "programmed" this way while arguing that sociohaters should fuck themselves (cause sociohaters are for some reason more responsible for their actions than socios). "Deluded bunch of charming assholes" in a nutshell.

    2. I partly agree with you, but you should avoid putting anger in your arguments, because people will say that your anger erases your reason, even if that isn't always true.

    3. "(cause sociohaters are for some reason more responsible for their actions than socios)"

      That's a good point. Emotions are a force to be reckoned with for those who are 'programmed' to be emotionally or empathically driven. M.E. has acknowledged this, but many socios lazily criticize what appears to them as weakness, stupidity, or hypocrisy and self-deceit, without any experience of the challenge emotions present and the far greater difficulty of objective perception and detachment when living knee deep in them. Both conditions are equally 'programmed' and equally hard to manage and alter. Both types tend to criticise the other for lacking what comes easily and naturally to their own type.

    4. that´s actually the single best advice i got this month. Thank you. People did, do and will say that...
      i tried going without anger, but that´s surely the wrong way for me. in my case it takes away some autheticity...
      i try doing something like this:

      "Anybody can become angry - that is easy, but to be angry with the right person and to the right degree and at the right time and for the right purpose, and in the right way - that is not within everybody's power and is not easy."

    5. It really annoys me when people call empaths "emotionaly driven". Everyone is emotionaly driven. Empathic and sociopathic. The difference is that sociopaths are driven only by their own emotions which are also less. And that's why they are self serving. If someone isn't emotionally driven then we're probably talking about a plant. A human being without emotions at all can't function.

    6. It's usually socios that think and say it, though :)
      Non-socios often respect appropriate anger. Socios don't understand it. Although it does feel very inauthentic to try going without anger, it is always more effective against a socio, in practice, if you are trying to get a point across. Otherwise the anger becomes the focus and distracts. Cool, controlled, precision works better.

    7. "It really annoys me when people call empaths "emotionaly driven"."
      That's because you're emotionally driven. Haven't you noticed that socios usually have can have a much higher 'annoyance' threshold. Yes, we're all emotional, but differ hugely in degree and kinds of emotion. The relative difference in emotional levels and thresholds is precisely what makes empaths so manipulable by sociopaths.

    8. could you anonymouses please select a name!
      It´s really confusing... just hit "name" above anonymous and give yourself a name which is neither Anon1 or Anonymous 1. thx

      @ anon 6:35: My point was that nobody is really responsible of how they feel (good/bad/up/down/whatever), but people ARE responsible of how they act. the recurring argument on this site is that socios are less so. i understand that it´s a nice self-serving argument, but the plain truth is, that they´re self-serving assholes who don´t give a crap about other peoples dignity, emotions or whatever.

    9. "It really annoys me when people call empaths "emotionaly driven"

      Emotions are a force to be reckoned with for those who are 'programmed' to be more emotional or empathic, if you prefer.

    10. Anon 1, my point is that we are equally programmed and therefore also equally responsible.

    11. anon 8:14 i cant find a reason why that would be true. Sociopaths want satisfaction and power, everything they do is to succeed and manipulate which serves the emotions they will get when they do those things. Explain if you will. I insist we are all emotionaly driven.

    12. and anon 8:10 I disagree, what makes sociopaths manipulate empaths easily is because through their whole lives they've tried to find a way to get what they want from the humans around them whom they couldn't relate to. Uderstanding how they're emotions work and using them to their advantage. It's because they've practised their whole lives, it's not a matter of emotional levels if that even made sense. They know how to control others because they care to control others, not because of some magic.

    13. Anon 8:58 Sociopaths are less emotionally reactive. They lose their cool less easily. Lower levels of fear, nervousness, self-consciousness, jealosy, emotional-attachment - all emotions which are 'forces to be reckoned with' if you feel them more strongly and frequently. Controllng them can be hard and they can make everyday functioning more difficult.

    14. 8:10 This difference in emotional-reactivity is one of the main ways by which sociopaths manipulate empaths. They provoke them. Yes, they're very practised too, but this is the way they found to do it and what they've become practised in. They provoke both pleasant and unpleasant emotions, usually in that order, or quite often alternately. They're able to do that because they are the less emotionally-reactive; they care less.

    15. to anon 2 , you are talking about empathy, not emotions. Even though narcissistic rage is obviously a narcissists trait, I have seen sociopaths experience it at times when I've purposesfully bothered them. They also have emotional reactions.

    16. Yes, so have I. But they have a higher threshold. They are not as generally emotionally-reactive, they're provoked by a narrower range of 'offences' and react in fewer emotional ways, rage being the most common. They don't 'get emotional', they get angry, specifically. Vis a vis emotion and (affective) empathy, I think they are inseperable in this context. Empathy will be impaired to the degree emotional functionality is impaired. They go hand in hand, it's an emotional function.

  3. If u want me to empathize, that means u want me to feel worse than i already do. you want me to feel pity. or be sad. and i really don't respect that. go for confidence. plus u cant really do anything positive without confidence.

  4. For the love of God, If my dam scruples and empathy can just shift over and take a back seat maybe I can stand up for myself and take a stand to what's just and right. I hate feeling bad for what I shouldn't feel bad for. It's a horrible feeling inside. And because I've been overly-empathetic it's easy for me to feel bad for someone I have an actual issue with. It's fucked up. It's like "I know what you've done - but I'll make it better for you. I know you can do better than this. But fuck off because I know what you've done, what you are, and it's not right."

    It's like I have compassion for my enemies too.

    The highly-empathetic or scrupulous person than gets easily manipulated by looking like a dumb ass because the emotional reactive response of emotions is so strong in me.

    Then they say, "look what a fuck up she is." She raged in all her emotions.

    The other person eventually shift blames there way out of there own wrong doing and concentrates on the reactive response of the other person who's drowning in emotion.

    That's typical borderline rage in me when I'm angry at real injustice. Every emotion times one hundred thats highly escalated like a third degree burn. Fuck emotions.

    Empathy really can fuck off. It's too much. I've felt bad for the wrong people for far too long. I need to direct my caring attitude in a more self-controlled manner so I'm taken serious with the right type of people who actually care.

    Scruples can freak off. I've had scruples since I was a little girl. My mom would take me to priests to figure out why my conscience was overactive and I always had too much of a caring heart for people who liked to see me fall she said.

    That's why this blog helps me. It really helps me to shift things over. To not be taken advantage of. It gives me man balls. But In a good way. It's like it the missing link in my brain that so empathetic. I honestly hate feeling too much. No wonder why I have autoimmune shit, I feel things before they actually happen. Body vibrations. Being an empath sucks too. It overall sucks. It has its advantages yes but way more disadvantages I believe. And I can't change my brain. I look at the sociopathic brain image and think why can't I be void of that because my problems escalated from feeling too much.

    Serious the sociopathic traits can cure the borderline traits. Maybe visa versa as well. But both interactions should be fair with each other and grounded. We all falter, we are not perfect either. Emotions just get me into a frazzle. Lol

    Okay vent done ;)

    1. You're taking everything to the extreme. Not everyone's that empathic. And not everything is black and white. Sometimes the right thing is in the grey area. It takes effort to be 'perfect". I believe there isn't an ideal character. You cant say that, because your empathy which is very high and its causing you problems, you should not have empathy at all. I believe the ideal is in the midle, where there is balance. Everyone is whoever they happen to be and they have to make the best out of it. To be their own best self. Not wish to be something they cant be.

    2. Superchick's just demonstrating what fucking hard work emotions can be. And venting's one way of dealing with them / burning it off, very satisfying sometimes. I second everything she says.

    3. She's not talking for everyone, she's talking for herself.

    4. It's a good example of how involuntary empathy can be. She doesn't choose it, she IS it.

    5. Excuse me then. Having been written as a comment on a post that says empathy is bad and her writing things such as "Being an empath sucks too. It overall sucks. It has its advantages yes but way more disadvantages I believe." I made this misconception.

    6. Nor self serving people choose egoism. Egoism is them.

    7. "The way empathy is discussed in the video is so flawed by mixing it with altruism, which is very different than empathy but is more closely aligned to the charity model discussed."

      I agree with this. And I think humanity would be fucked without empathy.

  5. Thanks Anom 2 : )

    Anom 134 I understand not trying to be black & white, I'm just expressing my brains reactions. Empathy has caused me more problems in life than not having any at all. And yes balance is what everyone should attain, but the reality of it doesn't exist for some people staying there for long. I look at brain images of sociopathic brains and I realize boredom actually hurts many of them. The emptiness hurts. . Then I see a borderline and they have a flood of emotions, they want to just stop. Anything to not feel so much. And because both disorders look so oppositional we react sometimes. We look like awful to people watching in with people's perceptions ....but we aren't. Most of us are not bad people. It's just we falter in emotional responses. I'm on a spectrum, my spectrum happens to be far left while others are far right. For the love of God I'd love to be at a medium. It's not that I don't get there, it's work to get that balance before I know it i shifted.. All that work and I shifted. For once, I want to be an asshole and just rest in it not caring and feel justified in my stance. But I'll worry for the other person.

    Like my husband told me tonight driving home. You compensated for the wrong people who could give two shits about you.

    1. Superchick: "You compensated for the wrong people who could give two shits about you."


      And you're a multifaceted gem of a human being. I admire your struggle.

      Mr. Hyde

    2. You're welcome Superchick, I enjoyed your vent. Empathised with everything you said :)

    3. Anon 2, its nice to know I'm not alone in this ....that there are others who can resonate. : -)

      When you get time read this.

      I can relate to Sally's story as she lost weight with her scruples when it got so bad. I stopped eating. My mom was worried as I always damned myself to hell when scruples creep itself onto me.

      I worked on my ocd since I was a young teen but I remember as a little girl doing those odd rituals. I can spot out others who struggled doing them too. It's just trying to find a sense of control ( that's all). I was that vunerable little girl and people knew it. I left myself open to abuse. And I was set up for abuse by people that should have protected me growing up.

      But I've grown - grown out of it. Thank God. But I know my default position of the overly-empathetic guilt that's seriously useless stuff for me. Balance is beautiful. I look back and wish I knew the things I know now. How I've grown and I'm more proud of the girl I am today. I never had a fighting chance when I was young....the situation and exploited environment would not allow for it.

      I hold dear the people who could have taken my vulnerability and play on it. Instead there compassion helped me grow out of my scruples ....out of my overly empathetic guilt. And these are not overly-empathetic individuals themselves. I'd say people who are logically based in their thinking. Rational in thinking. A peace , a calm of understanding they gave me. That I was worth it. That it was okay if people thought and me as an asshole. It was okay. And that it was even more okay to stand up for what was right and just without trying to overly-extend my hand out to others.

    4. Thank you Superchick :) This is very interesting to me, because I've never identified myself with any fixed 'type' but can see I'm definitely at your end of the spectrum, and have so much in common. I think I had an easier time in early life, by the sound of it, and was also free of any religious context in which the guilt-tendency might have become a focus in the way talked about in that article (so I don't relate as closely / automatically to that as I do to your own description). But all these traits are a part of my personality and daily life to an extent that I very seldom encounter in others - maybe one person I can think of comes close in some ways. My closest friends or family have called me the most guilt-prone and most "ridiculously" circumspect person they know, but I'd never really looked at these traits together, if you know what I mean - as a cluster. It's fascinating, and quite nice, to be seeing that same group of characteristics in you and realise it all goes together, it's all the same thing (and I don't know why I didn't now, it fits so naturally, makes so much sense).

      Compassion for your enemies - totally! - it's a bastard isn't it! If ever I do take a stand (or am pushed to explode) against some unjust bullshit, which I do so very seriously when it happens, I can literally just count down to the time my heart will feel for the person acutely and make me wish I hadn't. Or very often the thing that will hold be back from opposing someone is empathy or sympathy for their state - even if they are horrible or behave appallingly, I will pity them for it. It's really inconvenient and impractical! Complicates life so much, doesn't it, and makes navigating through it so much harder and more exhausting. Feeling so much stuff at once, you get swamped by it and as you say - frazzled! Most of my life is about avoiding getting frazzled, trying to keep things simple enough to have some breathing room and peace and quiet in amongst it all. Feeling too much and too often can happen so easily, and is profoundly crippling. It's the sheer volume of it and the energy it takes, isn't it?

      I am amazed, actually, to be discovering, after so long not realising it, just how incredibly different people's natural defaults are, and how different their daily experience of life is.

      I used to think a lot people were a bit on the insensitive side, maybe - I had no idea how far end of the spectrum I actually was. I'd gathered recently that I must be pretty much 'opposite to a psychopath' because on 'psychopath tests' I always score in the bottom five percent.

      But this brings me to another question, which I'm curious to know if we're similar in or not. Do you ever get your emotions completely cut out if/when you are hurt too acutely? I've had it maybe about 5 times in my life. It happens very suddenly and is a total transformation - it all cuts out, I feel totally cool, strong, confident (because of the lack of anything disturbing it), it feels like a total personality change inwardly, a totally different version of me, without all the emotional stuff going on. I'm not particluarly different on the outside, I don't think, but inside it like having been freed and being totally in control, and everything becomes so easy and straightforward. It's great when it happens. It lasts maybe a few days, and it reverts back gradually. ...

    5. It has made me wonder (if this makes any sense) whether highly sensitive and empathic people are actually not at the opposite end of a spectrum from psychopaths...that maybe the spectrum is more like a loop, in which the far left and far right are actually next to one other, and whether it is the most sensitive people who, through extreme emotional injury, can become 'psychopathic' in self-preservation, by a natural (if extreme) defence mechanism. I've wondered this also because I've always seemed to get on more naturally with quite sociopathic people (or people like me) than with the more 'normal' types, whom I never feel very at home with. I've always felt at home with sociopaths. So I find it funny to imagine them being at the far end of the spectrum, further away (less similar) than those in the middle. The ones in the middle seem much further away! I always have quite a lot of similarity of thinking with sociopathic friends, along with the obvious polar contrasts. It's almost like I half overlap and half differ. I haven't yet found anyone who's recognised my emotions-cutting-out experience. It's not just a blunting or numbing, but a really dramatic switch (which is so memorable because I love it so much when it happens).

      "I hold dear the people who could have taken my vulnerability and play on it."
      Yes, I understand this. It's such a valued experience isn't it. And I've often found that occurred with non-emotional or less-emotional types too.

      Yes, balance is great when you can get it and keep hold of it, isn't it? At those times I'm very grateful for feeling. When it's gentle and 'manageable'. It's interesting then. Then I'm grateful for not feeling empty or bored, and wouldn't want to swap. But when that switch happens, in desperation (or whatever) I don't miss it one bit :)

      "And that it was even more okay to stand up for what was right and just without trying to overly-extend my hand out to others."
      Yes I think this is the key... When you lose the need or compulsion to do that, and don't have to care about it, and everything, whatever it is, can be 'okay'... that solves / stops a lot of the over-feeling and feels beautifully free in comparison.

    6. Anon 2

      Sorry for intruding but I had to. Your description of yourself reads to me like something a clone of mine wrote. I understand exactly what you mean, especially the psychopathic rush & "freedom" you get when you're trust is seriously abused. Enjoying the company of "sociopathic" people, the loop analogy etc. right on.

      I was an atheist until last year. I wanted to be less empathetic because I felt it was too extreme. I would end up hurting myself or my interests because I cared excessively about the other or what's right. No one appreciates your going out of your way to be fair or help them out. To the contrary they abuse your generosity and take advantage of your kindness. Sociopathy - which at the time meant only the lack of empathy - felt extremely attractive and my natural opposite. I felt like my brain was "sociopathic" but my heart was a pure empath - theoretically I was all for no emotions, especially in business, but pragmatically I was far too empathetic.

      I too have a few moments when I felt "free" and "unleashed." It felt like a mountain of chains came off. It wouldn't last. Then I took a hit I couldn't bare. Three people - two close family members and my closest friends at the time - betrayed me. This time it nearly crippled me and did "unleash" me except now I didn't want it. I saw what the price for this "freedom" was and I didn't want it. All my life I wanted to be less empathetic but now I saw how empty, disgusting and treacherous the socio can be.

      Still I swear I probably would have gone had it not been for God Almighty saving me. I wish I could explain to you in vivid detail what I mean by this. It's okay though, you'll realize one day when you have your awakening. Then you'll have the choice to go either way and God-willing you'll make the right one.


    7. If I may say so, you have the best character. If I saw this post last year, I would have told you what I would have wanted to be told to: control your empathy, no one cares, be free, look out for yourself first then others etc etc. Now I'm telling you without doubt your traits are rare and amongst the best peope out there. You rather suffer than inflict injustice on others. Your start is harder than most people but your end will be far better than most - that is, if you don't give up one day and head down the wrong track (psychopathy).

      I'll leave the "religious" stuff out for now. If you're like I was last year, it would do more damage than good. Time and your own experiences will prove to you what I said about God.


    8. Anon 2:

      When I broke down and was "unleashed" I got a brief "tour" of what it's really like to be on the other side. Keep it mind I was depressed and lonely but I STILL couldn't accept giving up my empathy. At that point it wasn't emotional it was purely logical. The socios I knew were all behaving in extremely self destructive ways because of their excessive self confidence and pride. Their callousness aside, what they did hurt them more than me. The only difference is they didn't suffer emotionally like I did because I was / am alive inside.

      You see I know without a doubt today that without empathy you eventually lose your rational faculties and objectivity. You don't know it - they think they're the most rational and intelligent people (puffed up pride and lying to themselves) but they end up being the opposite.

      So all this time I was craving "freedom" I was ignorant and had no clue how lucky I was. Sociopathy is nothing but a delusion. It looks fun and exciting and liberating but the reality is a nightmare. If they were truly happy and content inside, they would not behave as they behave.

    9. It's also a trap. I feel sorry for them, pity them, but one can't let that dictate how one deals with them because they'll take advantage. If I could go back, I would have been more patient and empathetic with the socios I know but less "giving." They don't care much about what you do for them but sometimes they do appreciate your genuine affection. I treated them as I wanted to be treated and it didn't work.

      Some people who call themselves "sociopaths" are just desperately seeking some real love and care but will not admit it to anyone. It's sad but that's the real challenge for extreme empaths: to help those at the opposite extreme on the empathy spectrum.

      Apologies for bombarding you with all this at once.

    10. "I felt like my brain was "sociopathic" but my heart was a pure empath - theoretically I was all for no emotions, especially in business, but pragmatically I was far too empathetic. "

      This struck a chord. I've never seen this idea expressed (or thought it myself) but it is very good description of how I feel, and what I'm like a lot of the time. Not in the sense of having any of the anti-social, or dark, instincts of sociopathy, but in the sense of being 'theoretically' for no emotion or low-emotion (especially in business) and valuing cool, detached thinking and striving for that, while being in practice acutely feeling.

      Luckily though, even when I experience these emotional cut-outs, my leaning is still always towards respect and decency or empathy - maybe more 'cognitively' at those times, but never the opposite. I lose vulnerability, but feel no cruelty.

      Despite the personal difficulty with it all, I actually do value empathy very highly, in others - it's lovely to come across, when it's genuine (cognitive or affective).

      I feel for your blows. I know what that's like.

      I'm glad you liked my 'loop' idea

      Thank you Jonaid :)

      Feel free to describe your experience in vivid detail if you want to.

    11. "It's sad but that's the real challenge for extreme empaths: to help those at the opposite extreme on the empathy spectrum."

      Maybe. I like that.

      "Apologies for bombarding you with all this at once."

      Not at all :)

    12. Anon 2 amazing! I'm just at work today so I can't be online for too long , but I wanted to express to you that everything you wrote I can cha-ching with. Everything. Seriously, I can take a wine glass and clank your glass in total agreement. It's like you're my twin brain reflecting back. :D Thanks for sharing that all. I needed to hear it. Its so nice to know that there are others who think along those same lines as me. It's a beautiful aww- huh moment as I'm absorbing everything you said in

      I'm glad we crossed paths here. Thumbs up! Absolutely refreshing! And very validating!

    13. Just read Jonaid's posts as well. Awesome! Cha-Ching, I really likey. :D

      "The head being sociopathic , but the heart empathetic,"

      Metaphorically beautifuls

    14. That makes three of us!

      Anon 2 I agree the freedom we seek / sought was not to be antisocial or callous but to prioritize our own interests more, and not let other people's sorrows cloud our judgement. That doesn't exist and you realize that when you are hovering on the border of sociopathy. It's not neutral, it's literally the opposite of extreme empathy.

      We all fall on the empathy spectrum somewhere. Our genes determine our default and our experiences, our beliefs, our resilience etc determine how we move along on the spectrum thru out our lives.

      The past 6 months or so I've gotten slightly more empathic (and I already was too empathic). The difference is now I accept it and want more. It's really not possible, without God, to be where I am now, at least not for me given my experiences.

      I might come around later and try to elaborate on that last point.

      Take care.

    15. "I'm glad we crossed paths here. Thumbs up! Absolutely refreshing! And very validating! "

      Yep, this is amazing for me too! I'm getting that thing now where (since I first read your reply a couple of hours ago) I'm kind of swept up in the remarkably interesting, slightly stunning, fun of it all, with a million thoughts racing round, looking up this, reading that, taking tests, phoning a friend and buzzing away excitedly with the novelty of it all, and now it's suddenly caught up - I'm getting overrun by the emotions, my heads fogging up, I'm getting frazzled! It's such a handful isn't it :) I'm so quick to get interested, get enthusiastic, get excited (get everything) and then I can't keep up with myself - I burn myself out (or over-stimulate myself to death) and have to go lie down in a dark room to clear my head! I reckon you probably know exactly what I mean :)

      Well, I'll be damned... what an interesting experience this has been! Amazing. I literally know no-one with quite all my traits - it's really weird... it's almost like finding out I'm 'normal'! haha :) Thanks, Superchick! Great fun

    16. "That makes three of us!"
      Yes, it certainly seems so... How remarkable when things click like that. I still have your 'sociopath head; empath heart' idea in my mind - it makes so much sense, that's just what it feels like. As I just said to Superchick, I need to adjourn to a dark room now my enthusiasm has bubbled over, but feel free to elaborate all you like - I will be competent enough to read, even if I'm not coherent enough to write. Thank you for your responses! Take care :)

    17. I know exactly what you mean !! Lol, I'm in my bed, emotional overload of feelings. Dark place , yes, peace, rest, reminiscing, nice you tube video, sleepy eyes, smiles :) excitement.

      You gotta check these videos out. You will absolutely enjoy this. You will be hooked. Nights X I listen to them a few times a week before shut eye. This guy is like a present each time (my analogy) ;) , and every time I listen to him it just reveals another incredible gift in store. Enjoy! The gift that keeps giving.

    18. Anon 2

      I know what you mean. I don't know anyone like me, never have. I fell for a sociopath because I read too much of me into him. He's very different in many ways but I chose to focus entirely on the similarities. I still sometimes think he's nearly identical but for our different experiences growing up and our experiences since. 50% of the times I think that's the case and 50% of the times I think he's my exact opposite and I'm just indulging in wishful thinking, hoping to find what isn't there. He may have been the guy right next to me on the opposite end of the loop.

      Take care and good night!

    19. "And all things We have created by pairs, that haply ye may reflect."

      Qur'an 51:49

      The loop has got me thinking about this again.

    20. Superchick - thank you for the link! :) The gift that keeps giving - that's what my socio friend calls himself :). Would have replied sooner but have crashed in the meantime with semi-exhaustion (!) which I know you'll also relate to, since you get the "autoimmune shit" too! That's an interesting coincidence, though, because my autoimmune shit was actually brought on by a mercury problem - I never had any of that til about ten years ago when I got a mercury-related illness with a mass of problems, including autoimmune related things. It's actually almost gone now (all the other symptoms have) but getting a bad infection three years ago kicked off a proper chronic-fatigue syndrome that still plagues me if I push my luck with energy. It's a real bugger for our type of personality isn't it because we do that so naturally :). But the other thing that intrigued me was the "body vibrations" - I assume you mean ones you can feel? - because I had that in a big way too, for a while, when my mercury problem was as its worst: actual physical vibration and 'juddering' almost, totally invisible from the outside but very real inside, running the length of my body for days on end, and it would get massively set-off or worsened by anxiety - just hyper-hyper-sensitive, off the scale. So I can relate to your 'feeling things before they happen' too - it was all very like that. Horrible!

      But that was definitely a mercury effect, in me, because it went away as I got rid of the stuff, which took a few years, and I don't get it at all anymore. The other thing which intrigues me about all of it is that these personality characteristics are all so similar to the personality/emotional effects of mercury - they're all on the list! - and borderline is among the conditions associated with it.

      My traits became so exaggerated during that time it was unreal - like just living in a Woody Allen film 24 hours a day (on top of feeling like I was on drugs from the direct toxic effect). It even brought out borderline traits that I don't have normally (never had before or since) like being afraid to be alone (I've always loved being alone) and wanting to be dead. And it exaggerated all the others hugely. I've always had this kind of personality, but before the mercury thing I was really on the mild side - just slightly quirky in that way but nothing which really caused proper difficulties. But the mercury episode left me wondering how much my personality was influenced by it, because if I am someone quite sensitive to mercury (people differ greatly) it may have played a part all along, as I was having mercury amalgam fillings from about age 6 or who knows! It's one of those things that I suppose is impossible to know for sure, but I do wonder. But then, it doesn't change the price of eggs, whatever the reasons...

      I've also wondered at times also whether something like mercury is capable of causing 'psychopathy' because I experienced some seriously weird stuff when I was in the worst of it. One day I experienced something that I'm convinced was close to clinical psychopathy. It was at the same time as lots of physical and nervous system symptoms as well, so I know it wasn't 'just psychological' or 'emotional' also felt very physical.

      It's hard to describe, but I'll try because I've never written about it before and it may ring a bell with someone somewhere, who knows. It was similar, I suppose, to my 'emotions cutting out' experiences, but much, much more extreme (so it didn't really feel similar at all). It felt REALLY weird - I suppose as weird as taking a mind-altering drug of some kind or being severly intocicated - but it wasn't like any of those. (just as weird/abnormal as them). ...

    21. [cont'd]

      It was one day, on which I woke up feeling like this:

      I had no 'me' sense whatsoever - I wasn't 'me'. I was a person, but there was no 'me' feeling about it. And I had 'lost my bond' with everyone - that's distinctly how it felt. I was aware of all this but couldn't 'care' or be worried or afraid because I was incapable of all those feelings - any of the feelings that normally belonged to my personality, that made me 'me'. I was TOTALLY cerebral.

      It was the most interesting experience I've ever had, in terms of an education in what was possible, how different 'experience' could be - I was experiencing something I couldn't have conceived of with my usual imagination. It actually felt very 'clean', simple, 'pure' in a way - immensely calm and clear... totally - but not like a calm version of 'me', just calmness itself - totally empty, void of any feeling (emotional, not physical). I hadn't even been aware of 'having bonds' with anyone until this experience, when one of the most obvious things, that struck me first, was that they had gone / that was gone.

      It didn't horrify or sadden me, because I was incapable of all that, but it 'concerned' me cerebrally because I saw that if someone very 'close' to me were to phone, I would have to act. I knew that could act whatever I needed to, that it was all absolutely easy (also very alien for my personality, because of my normal compulsion and liking for being open and genuine and 'natural'). At some point the thought occurred to me 'I wonder if this could be what psychopathy is like' - in those days I knew next to nothing about it and had no interest in it, but was aware that it was about 'something being missing' and that thought brought it to mind.

      I automatically thought to 'test' it by mentally envisaging the sort of thing associated with psychopathy - the worst sort of crime associated with it - was I capable of it? (something I simply couldn't do now, which is why I'm not elaborating or describing it - I literally can't contemplate or let myself mentally envisage it, and couldn't have done before this experience, or at any time in my life except for this day). As a mental experiment, having no emotional qualms, or capacity for any, I asked myself, could I commit X - and realised I could, because EVERYTHING WAS THE SAME, without any emotional 'value' attached to it - with that part of me missing, that function not operating, NOTHING effected me, there was no 'meaning'- everything was the same, it was a landscape without difference, without emotional difference, without meaning difference. I was as equally capable of one thing as another, they were all equal - just actions, that I was disconnected from, because 'I' wasn't there, there was no 'me'.

      But what I also observed - what was part of the same observation - was that neither did I have any desire to commit anything - everything was equal in that sense too, no 'value' attached. I had absolutely no impulse to do anything like the example I thought of - it was neutral, everything was neutral - and knew I wouldn't, that I was in no danger of doing anything unwanted, I simply wasn't interested. This is why, when I read sociopaths here explaining that the absence of empathy does not in itself produce - or even have anything to do with - sadism, etc - that the two have essentially no connection with one another, I know exactly what they mean and have no difficulty believing them, I know they are telling the truth. But they are trying to explain something which is simply outside the experience of normally 'emotional' people, so I also see why others can't comprehend it, can't compute it. I'd never have been able to do so without that experience that gave me a glimpse into such a different possibility of experience. ...

    22. [cont'd]

      I then tested it again by picking something else which would be one of the last things I'd ever contemplate (or be capable of) doing ; Could I run up and down the street naked? Ye - it would mean literally nothing to me. No fear, no excitement, no anything - nothing was producing any kind of emotional response or 'meaning' in me internally.

      It was a fascinating and very eye-opening experience. I realised that all these things are emotional functions, and that if emotional function becomes impaired or drops out, this is what is left. Cerebral function alone is a very very different experience. It is not IN ITSELF bad, good, or anything. Bad and good are emotional entities, they belong to that side. It doesn't 'exist' in the cerebral side, which is all I was experiencing that day. The only trace of 'personality' I could detect at all - and it was tiny, and not really anything like my normal 'composite' personality in any way - was the very slight feeling now and again of what I'd imagine a playfully mischievous seven year old boy feels like - that's the best way I could describe it. But even that wasn't strong enough to influence or impel me in any way. I simply got on with doing my income tax return, as it was the day before the deadline and I had no choice.

      To my amazement, I was better at maths (calculations) than I'd ever been in my life - the absence of emotional 'reluctance' (huffing and puffing and grumbling) that normally goes along with it for me (which, again, I only became aware of by its unusual absence this day) made it ultra-easy, straightforward, and made me remarkably efficient. I was getting this right first time, for the time ever!

      The only real difficulty I experienced was towards the end of the day when I came to fill out the tax return online and discovered that I couldn't process the meaning of written language - I could read the words fluently, but after reading a paragraph I had taken in no meaning from it - I couldn't tell you what it had actually said, or meant.

      It was the weirdest thing. But it showed me what is possible when parts of the brain are being effected or prevented from functioning normally, and the fact that it could reproduce what I am sure was something very close to clinical psychopathy, I found extremely eye-opening and interesting. (I woke up the next day normal, by the way. The 'me' feeling was back and I've had it ever since).

      But mercury (and no doubt other things) can effect the brain in these ways. Mercury in particular is known to 'target' the amygdala especially, which plays a major role in regulation of emotion - and is known to be able to influence it in both ways - cause overactivity and underactivity. Which is why I can't help wondering whether my over-emotional bias normally might too be 'helped' a bit by mercury :) Who knows, but I find it all extremely interesing.

      Sorry for potentially boring you half to death with that tangent, but it's something I've really been wanting to write about at some point, and thought I'd do so now since the autoimmune thing brought it to mind.

      Thanks again for the recommendation! and sharing your experiences! :) It's really good to hear it...

    23. Jonaid, thank you for yours too :)

      " I don't know anyone like me, never have. I fell for a sociopath because I read too much of me into him. He's very different in many ways but I chose to focus entirely on the similarities."

      Exactly what happened to me. So did I. That's what it's like. It's a bastard because it makes such a big impact on someone like us. I understand that completely...

      Take care :)

    24. Anon 2

      I enjoyed reading your experience with mercury. I can tell by how you write that you're a genuine person. I can write a lot in response but I should keep it brief so I'll address a couple of points:

      1) I can feel your experience and relate to it even though I haven't experienced anything identical. Up until last year, when I realized what real psychopathy really is, I would have agreed with your usage of the term "psychopath." It would be as you describe: a complete indifference to everything and opening up all possibilities - good or bad - for you. However, my experience with multiple psychos and all my research, including how many psychos here on this blog vividly describe the pleasure they get from actively & willfully destroying others - others who've done no harm but in fact good to them - proves that psychopathy is not the mere lack of emotions. It is the opposite of good intentions; simply bad or evil intentions. One would expect a "neutral" mind to behave neutrally, not intentionally, excessively and joyfully sadistic & destructively. In summary: a lack of empathy explains indifference to others' suffering, it does NOT explain the intentional & needless causing of that suffering. They lack empathy, not the ability to see right & wrong.

      2) You described how you could read but not comprehend what you read. This is exactly how a psychopath eventually becomes: they're like computers; they can compute but are clueless as to what they're computing and why. They're stuck in a flood of confusion and anything that seems to serve their base desires is what they pursue. They indulge in "intellectual" exercises not to sake of gaining true knowledge & understanding but either to show they are intelligent or to gain some material benefit. My experience on this blog alone has proven time & time again that sociopaths read like cynical, solipsistic machines (far from neutral, indifferent ones) - they are unable to read objectively. They project their own cynicism and agendas onto everything one writes and then criticise you based on that - most often having completely missed the point. The saddest part is they then convince themselves that you're the one who's clueless, not them.

    25. When I started participating on this blog I made a clear distinction between the two different kinds of sociopathy. I defined sociopathy as the lack of empathy that is a result of bad genes and / or bad upbringing and life experiences. Psychopaths, however, are the real "devils." They have no justification for their disposition. These are the people that stunt their emotions and guilt just so they could get more than others. These are the ones who push the first dominoes.

      Also, I think I'm not being entirely fair when I call the people that screwed me psychos. Most of them are more narcissistic than they are psychopathic. Narcissism eventually leads to psychopathy if it isn't reversed.

    26. Superchick, I thought you might be amused by a discussion I've got going on with my sociopathic friend since I confided in him a few days ago that it looks like I'm probably pretty borderline myself (I took five online tests and passed four - even without scoring any points at all on self-harm or fear of loneliness!).

      I've been slightly irking him by calling him a psychopath the last couple of years, as if there was nothing weird whatsoever about me, so I kind of felt I owed it to him :)

      He didn't respond for days (which pissed me off, of course) and just came back with this. (do you have to put up with this kind of shit too? :) (only joking, I love it really)...

      ME: Even though I have lots of 'affective' empathy (feeling for other people), I do often actually get it wrong on 'cognitive' empathy, don't I? I don't actually know how the other person feels; it's quite often not what I imagine at all. That's over-active emotions doing the 'thinking'.

      HIM: Most amusingly of all, I think, is how you always have an entirely fantastical backstory going on, a perfectly rational but completely wrong explanation for my behaviour which often starts with me "ignoring" you (!), quickly turns to indignation, then outrage, then melodramatic terminal velocity...!

      And literally every time I've been either doing 'stuff', sleeping, forgotten to look at Skype, etc. You have an infinite capacity for alternative theories and an extraordinary tendency to endlessly reject/forget/ignore the more benign possibilities!

      You are right that it would be outrageously rude and/or game-playing if I did ignore you or let you suffer without replying, or deliberately confuse you - if I were an actively cruel asshole.... Disappointingly I am, at worst, just a bit neglectful

      ....which could be seen as rude I suppose, but you have to weigh that against the fact that when I DO interact with you it's usually with full attention and enthusiasm (chipper, breezy, cunty, take your pick) and you know that when my focus is YOU, you get my full intensity (for better or worse...)

      ME: You haven't said anything yet about my extraordinary tendency to endlessly forgive...

      HIM: Sure

    27. Jonaid, this is very interesting. I do understand what you're saying. I've experienced the 'devil' stuff too - on the receiving end - and know where you're coming from. That experience I had adds an interesting dimension for me that I'd never have guessed even existed without it, and makes a lot of the stuff that's been said about the empathy and emotion also make a lot of sense. But as you say, it depends what you mean by 'psychopathy' too, when discussing this stuff.

      I do have some more specific thoughts and ideas in response to yours, but will have to think about it properly, to be able to write it not-incoherently! So will give it some more thinking-time to consider it and get it straight before I do. Thank you again :)

    28. Jonaid - just as a quick afterthought meanwhile: I'm not saying that people who have empathy but suppress or smother it out of existence don't or cannot exist also.

      Just that extreme variation from the norm, in a degree that naturally emotional and empathic people would literally not imagine from a starting point of their normal experience, also exists.

      And it makes me realise that in such a condition, the experience of harming people would be very very different from what it is and means to us. If someone were in a condition like that from birth or too young to have memorable experience of the emotional or moral worlds at all - such things would literally have no meaning... at least that's the staggering realisation my experience suggested to my mind. Right and wrong would have no meaning, other than words other people were using - they'd have no personal meaning or reality.

      I gather you'd call any such people sociopaths, then, from your clarification of your definition, and would only use the term psychopath for someone who has potential for empathy but 'rejects' it or 'trains themselves out of it' through behaviour?

    29. PS I'm with you on regarding one's own morals and capacity for empathy as supremely important, bythe way.

    30. Have you ever heard of the "empathy switch"? Look it up psychopaths have the ability to turn their emotions on and off at will. I have this too now - since my "awakening" last year - but I can't turn it off without having a good reason to. If I decide to shift over to the other side, I can chose to keep it off except when it's convenient to turn it on.

      What you described are people I call sociopaths, like M.E. They've been deprived of a fair start and probably don't understand - emotionally - why some things are truly wrong. Still, they can understand rationally & logically that hurting others is wrong. Like I said one can expect indifference and "awkwardness" from such people but one would not expect carefully planned, well executed assaults on undeserving & unexpecting acquaintances. Their assaults prove that they have full & complete understanding of "our" morality.

      Your experience with your psycho friend sounds almost identical to my own. It sounds like he's messing with your head because he knows you're extremely empathic, forgiving and self-doubting. My honest advice: don't let him fool you, trust your gut, but don't get confrontational or insist he correct himself. If you get annoyed or confused, it'll fuel him. You can only "win" him over with your heart - IF he is someone who's reasonable. It's easy said than done (and it's not what I did...or did rather imperfectly) but it's the only way to not lose yourself.


    31. It's good to forgive but the other person should know that you know. Otherwise they'll think you're ignorant and their "game" is working. Someone with good in them will appreciate it. Someone lacking any good inside will concoct a tale in their head and overlook all your favors & overlooking & forgiving.

      I feel for you but don't give up. Don't lose your heart!

    32. Have you had borderline symptoms all your life or is this very recent, since your acquaintance with the socio friend?

      I went borderline last year for a few months when I was confronting the psychos I knew. It got pretty bad, almost daily mood swings. I kept making complete 180 on everyone & everything. This is the part you might have trouble believing but I have to warn you:

      There's other "forces" at work and they may be hired against you. You don't have to take my word on it but do yourself a favor try asking God for help. I was a staunch atheist until this experience and the subsequent events proved to me that the reality is much more nuanced. Something like:

      I seek refuge in God against the accursed Satan.

      Again, you don't have to believe me but there's no harm in trying.

    33. Thanks Jonaid :)

      Yes, my friend's doing essentially what Superchick said here:
      "The other person eventually shift blames there way out of there own wrong doing and concentrates on the reactive response of the other person who's drowning in emotion. "

      But luckily I know it and he knows I know, etc. We're quite close because we've been friends since primary school, but luckily it's a fairly long-distance friendship and we have spates of interacting a lot and then long lulls in between, and are only in touch off and on, which suits me well because I wouldn't want to be any closer to him. I know what a handful he is.

      I told him what I thought of his opportunistic/expedient 'analysis' of me! There was a certain amount of truth in it all, of course, but he was massively exaggerating and massively selecting. He's very narcissistic and loves the idea that people can't bear being ignored by him because all they want is his attention. To some extent he doesn't get 'rudeness' either - it's a mix with him. Part cunt, part different. I had to remind him that we've only fallen out once in the last year, when I lost my rag because he was acting too false (and I just don't like non-straightness).

      He wasn't the sociopath that I said I'd fallen for and got 'punished' by, who I'm not in touch with anymore. I hope that I'll never fall for one in that way again. I like your advice though - they are the same sort of conclusions I came to. Except with this friend, to some extent, who I actually quite enjoy arguing with (so long as I don't get too serious or start caring too much, at which point I pull out to 're-group' or 'reset')

      Thanks Jonaid, that's nice advice :) (and thanks for the empathy!)

    34. Yes, I did read about the 'empathy switch' thing, but I couldn't help feeling that it was a bit black & white, one-size-fits-all-ish... I also wondered whether it was probably refering only to 'cognitive' empathy, which is a very different thing, but it wasn't that clear from the piece I was reading...

      Also, with the 'understanding how our morals work', yes, I know what you mean, but I can't help seeing a world of difference (probably because of that weird experience) between knowing how the rules work, and feeling it for yourself. And then, at the end of the day... whatever you think about 'psychopaths' in a general sense, it's very, very difficult to know the score with a particular individual - it's hard to apply generalisations when there's so much variation... you always have to take every individual individually, really, don't you - and it's impossible to know for sure the inner-workings of anybody but oneself. It's a really tricky business... On a personal level, I try to be alert for behaviours that are screwing me up and side-step them when they appear. I hope never to get so involved in a situation that I will suffer the kind of impacts I did in the past...

    35. PS - Empathy switch - yes, I also have that to some extent myself now, too - but as you say, it has to be a real reason, i.e. like when someone is harming you

    36. But it only works temporarily for me... I usually get a 'backlash' at some point - when I am out of 'danger', the empathy kicks in again, involuntarily

    37. "Have you had borderline symptoms all your life or is this very recent, since your acquaintance with the socio friend? "

      Depends which symptoms you mean. I wasn't even familiar with the whole symptom cluster, until I recognised myself in Superchick this week and then looked it up. I was always quirky in the ways she was describing - very sensitive, feeling all the time, compassion for enemies, and when I read the traits, realised that I fitted in other ways, like always having quite a strong paranoia streak (and some other stuff I forget) - I realised I was definitely in that ball-park, as a personality type. I'd never had any really problematic stuff until the mercury illness, which exaggerated it all hugely for that spell, and also - as you say - during and after the experience with the person I fell for, which had horrible effects and yes, I was 180-ing and all that stuff.

    38. "And then, at the end of the day... whatever you think about 'psychopaths' in a general sense, it's very, very difficult to know the score with a particular individual - it's hard to apply generalisations when there's so much variation... you always have to take every individual individually, really, don't you - and it's impossible to know for sure the inner-workings of anybody but oneself."

      I used to think exactly like this. I kept getting screwed over because I was ignorant (and not because of empathy). Think back to the sociopathic people you know. Don't they appear so normal? Don't they seem to fully understand other people's emotions, perhaps better than yourself? Don't they seem to be intelligent people? Do they really appear to be just "lost" and unaware of how emotions impact our thinking & actions? Seriously you must recall some facial expressions, some accidental or strange utterances, some weird sensations you got from them which made you think "something is off...this person is hiding something from me."

      It's also important to note - keeping in mind your experience of the socios - that they DO act in ways someone like you and I behave and want others to behave BUT in entirely different contexts. They DO seem to appreciate others' favors, they DO seem to realize what's right & wrong, they DO recognize when SOMEONE else forgives them or does them a favor but when it comes to YOU they have a million reasons for why YOU are the one who's paranoid or needs to relax.

      In the end, no matter what I say, you have to see it unfold for yourself. Only then will you know for sure what I'm saying. I went into depression, severe mood swings and paranoia for several months trying to rationalize why things happened that way they did. I could not go on without answers. Nothing made sense. In a single night a "miraculous" event - literally a revelation - opened up my mind & heart and EVERYTHING started to make sense. When God guides, it is more beautiful, powerful and REAL than you can imagine. I hope this example suffices in highlighting just how this "revelation" works:

      Imagine you lived a thousand years ago and, like everyone else, you believed the Earth was flat. The idea that it could be spherical would never have crossed your mind. You travel to the West and eventually end up right back to where you started. Now your mind is losing it wondering how that could be. How could I head due west and instead of finding an end, I come around. You think and think and think until you exhaust yourself and start losing it. Then one day, all of a sudden, you shoot straight up to the sky until you're literally on the moon. Now you're looking down on the Earth and you're like "wow, wow THAT makes sense."

      I didn't "shoot up" anywhere but the experience was exactly like this. There's no confusion - there's no possibility of confusion. God is beyond amazing.

    39. I'm not talking about mere sociopaths now. The real psycho knows full well that the vast majority of people are clueless and then there's empaths like us who sense something is off but are unwilling to believe that which is apparent. They're human too - they know what it is like to feel, to be hurt, to be cheat etc. - they've simply sold their souls for "power" and lust.

      I know I'll sound like a religious nutjob but when you realize what real psychopathy is you'll see exactly what I mean.

    40. "I used to think exactly like this. I kept getting screwed over because I was ignorant (and not because of empathy)."

      I was only saying, really, that concepts like the 'empathy switch', whilst interesting, cannot be assumed to apply and apply equally, because there's so much natural variation within types as well as between. So it's always important to retain the individuals perspective too. This doesn't make getting screwed over an inevitability. If certain individuals' behaviour is detrimental to you or threatens to be you can reduce their involvement in your life and choose other involvements, to cultivate the kind of life that's more in your true interests. Since we cannot control others - only ourselves - that seems like the inevitable conclusion to me...

      I do share and resonate with many of your observations and experiences, and I also think it's an important and interesting area, but not one that should become or remain at the centre of your emotional life... I think that's important too. People who've been badly effected by it need to regain their emotional independence from it and to find their own centre of gravity again... Not to forget about the experience to the point of repeating the same mistakes, but to become less emotionally consumed by it, and less emotionally driven by it, until they are not being consumed by it at all. I think that's the most important thing... regaining your own autonomy, and then using the experience and knowledge gained to better protect it in future. Otherwise they are more important than the should be (we're making them more important than they should be).

      It's like the thing ME tweeted the other day : "Hate is like love in that way. Whomever we choose to love or hate we invest everything. We lose ourselves."

      Do you know what I mean? Does that make sense? It's not that I disagree with you so much as hold this priority higher. I think the focus on psychopaths which follows a run-in with one can eclipse it, to our detriment.

    41. PS You don't sound like a nutjob :)

      My approach now, including with my friend, is that it matters less what other people are like than how they effect me, and that's the bit I concentrate on. If they're having an unwanted effect I'll leave them to it and do something else. What they are like doesn't have to bother me or consume me the rest of the time. They don't need to fill my mind or my life.

    42. I agree there is individual variation. Psychopathy, like everything else, falls on a spectrum. That doesn't mean that there isn't a single root cause and origin of this pathology.

      You mistook the purpose of my sharing my experiences. I'm not controlled or overly obsessed with psychopaths - I am, however, very much intèrested in the phenomenon itself. It completely alters your world view when you truly understand it.

      My being emotionally consumed by them has, in the end, been an incredible learning experience. This is the mistake sociopaths, and most people, make: they "move on" without reflecting enough. The result is they don't gain insight (with suffering comes true growth) but only learn to be less empathic.

      When I was ignorant I would have agreed with sociopaths that less empathy - or a "balance" - is the solution. The truth is that wisdom and insight are only possible with empathy. Growth is learning to utilize it affectively, not stunting it.

      Just clarifying. We seem to agree on the main points.

    43. That's good :) And it is very interesting. I pretty much agree with all that... :)

    44. "When I was ignorant I would have agreed with sociopaths that less empathy - or a "balance" - is the solution. The truth is that wisdom and insight are only possible with empathy. Growth is learning to utilize it affectively, not stunting it. "

      Yes, and we have to be what we actually are. If we are naturally empathic that's what we have to work with. I have found that distance (from the influence that mangled you) allows that empathy and innocence to revive and flourish again naturally, and have also rediscovered the healthiness and aptness of it in kinder contexts. That's been a nice stage to enter, realising from a more distanced vantage point that those people and situations which are so injurious to us via our empathy, and potentially injurious to our empathy, are actually way outnumbered by the reverse... :)

    45. although they seemed to be the whole of life while we were trapped in them...

    46. Superchick, I've been watching your videos. Thank you! it's very positive stuff isn't it!:) Great :)

    47. Hello Anon 2 yes different parts of the brain react very differently. Right now I've experienced so much emotion in the last two days to last me a full year, so my writing is probably blah, seriously I can't think, haha. So bear with me. ;) I have little multiple cysts on my ovaries so my hormones are surging! It started with one of them and it's worked its way to both. Been on so much birth control pills the last three months, my husband was ready to admit me to the mental hospital on this one birth control that had almost double the hormone than normal birth control pills the OB told me. Lol. When family doc saw what he put me on, he laughed and said, "you won't be able to handle this shit. I know your mind, your gunna go loopy! Most women do with this one !" So I got off that one for one month and now both ovaries have cysts. Fuck !! So back on hormones but this one is low dose , but I feel out of it still . ;) I hate the BC pills. The marina iud was a god send for almost three years ( that was the cure) than I develop some infections so they ripped that outta me. Lol TMI

      Anyway, It's the switch of left and right brain hemisphere. We either stay right longer.... than we do to the logical left hemisphere. We experience such a surge of emotion that we eventually switch off. I believe my autoimmune shit is the result. My father was the same way, it's like he can get into experiencing all these emotions for someone, feel the persons pain beside him ( feel it with such high intensity) ....and then he'd be totally wiped out and be in pain for a week sleeping it off after his shift ended. He'd be out for a whole week pretty much ....then he'd be on for the next week. No pain....smooth sailing, happy. Then roar in pain. On/off. My dad could switch off in emotions. He still cannot take responsibility for the break up of his family. I believe he cannot tolerate his distress of some failure , it's too painful to take it all in for him. Sometimes he amazes my sister and I and he'll come clean in little tid bits of course. And I'm like omg dad you just admitted that. Fuck yah. Then he'll tell me something and I'm like dad omg, you just amazed me in taking responsibility. My dad is a typical borderline man with aspergurs. That's what his family doc told me, his social graces kinda lack for the ones he should have grace for.... But for a total stranger, or someone he's not very close with compassion and deep empathy. It's not that he doesn't have it for his family, I just believe it will do him in if he actually sees the realities of his fuck ups. Overall he's a real nice man with high emotional reactivity. I don't even go there with my dad , his own father committed suicide, why should I ? His emotions are too high. My grandfather probably didn't have the coping kills to know how to get out of his emotional pain. Bless him. I honestly believe he hit a road block and his life flashed before him. Rip. Xo

      Even though it may feel like your borderline, you might not be. I hit traits... not full blown. There's 250 plus sub-types supposedly. I'd consider myself the HSC ( hyper-sensitive child) instead of a borderline child growing up. But because certain conditions escalated ....borderline traits resulted. Like a secondary condition. And definitely OCD was primarily growing up. My family doc kinda laughs at this borderline traits thingy with. Me because he said everyone is getting diagnosed with that and everyone has the traits. I told him but I stay there longer that's why I differ from you. He's like you've been ocd to me since you were ten. And when scruples ocd hit full blown , holy fuck! It was hell.

    48. When I do hit left brain it feels sociopathic, yes like you said. And fuck yah, why not? The surge of feeling so much needs to hault as well. We can only take so much stimuli until the body shuts down. What a breath of fresh air. I love being alone as well. And figuring out math problems would make sense if the left hemisphere is activated more than the right. Being calm, logical/rational, peaceful..... That to me sounds delicious. ;)

      As a child I couldn't get the complicated math problems. I was in general level math and the hard algebra shit or organic chemistry killed my brain. Haha. I'd be in total frustration.

      I used to tell my husband that if a child can understand problem
      solving in math he's less likely to develop full blown chronic depression and stay in it for very long. The reason: because he can logically figure out how to maneuver through life's road blocks quicker if he has reasonable problem solving skills.

      I was stuck. I think that why my hubs liked me. Haha. He just knew how to calm me down, figure things out more than I could. It took me longer than him. I'd be on cloud 9 of emotion and he's like honey, it's no big deal, we'll figure it out. ;) lol. We complimented each other. My husband is not sociopathic but if on a spectrum (definitely traits of one more so ) than on a borderline emotional spectrum. I'm kinda his opposite. We just complimented oneanother. But I've always believed borderline and sociopaths are more alike than not.

      As a borderline the beautiful thing about it ....we are like part -time sociopaths. I believe that's why we gravitate towards them and can relate to them. We are more alike.....than not. That loop cycle is not so different. We don't stay in our emotion for months on end. But when we're in it we have it in high intensity times 100, (we stimulate the sociopath in our life, we excite the boredom, maybe the emptiness) than we shut down. It's too much. Balance is just very tough for our brains. We are wired differently. It's a blessed-curse. Learning self-care is vital for the cluster b individual. And I hear more and more the borderline and sociopath having arthritic conditions. It's inside, we feel things inside, it's how its projected outside that people don't get about us.

      A borderline : feels it then explosively reacts

      A sociopath: feels it, rationalizes it and projects it out calmly. Maybe the brain thingy is activated in this hemisphere.

      You'd be amazed they care deeply inside its just projected logically. Not for everyone of course , I'd say close family members and close friends. And it's deep. I sometimes think neaurotypicals exploit them more than they do to us because we are more ignorant of their wiring style. They will protect you even if your on ur emotional roller coaster. If they love you , they will protect you at all costs.

      Glad your enjoying those video blogs :-)). And know I totally understand everything you write. Have a good evening.

    49. Superchick,that was a great read - fascinating! Again chimed with everything...

      Just a quickie before I reply properly - I think I may have a useful suggestion for you to look into... I so empathise with the hormone bullshit - Jeez, tell me about it! The mercury problem fucked with all that, and I've always had (increasingly) bad PMT. Last year I researched hormones, found out that mercury causes bad PMT because it lowers your progesterone levels and makes you 'estrogen dominant' (meaning estrogen is higher than progesterone) which is bad news for health and sanity! Some birth control pills have the same effect. You say that you loved the marina iud - I just looked it up and it's one that releases progestin, which is the syntheitc version of progesterone (progesterone being the natural version the body produces itself). Progesterone is sometimes called the 'feelgood hormone'. If you're estrogen dominant you won't feel good. Since last year I've been using Progesterone cream (it's manufactured, but bio-identical to the body's own version, hence no side-effects). It mellows you out, takes the anxiety/craziness down. If you're interested, have a read up on it, and if you fancy trying it, this is the one I got:

      Lots of health benefits too, with no dangers. Reduces cancer risks, apparently (being estrogen-dominant increases them).

      And I feel I might as well mention while I'm on it, that another hormone I've been supplementing and am REALLY impressed with is Pregnenolone (which is the precursor to all these hormones, known as the 'grandmother hormone'). I use it when I am whacked out but have to go somewhere - I only take a quarter of a tablet and I feel pretty awesome - but not in any unnatural way, just fitter, more energy and (get this) CALMER and MORE COMPOSED, happy and easy-going! It's amazing, I never want to be without it again. I haven't become 'dependent' on it, or anything, I can take it or leave it, and often don't bother if I'm not busy, but it's like magic when you need a bit of a boost. Here's the link if you're interested:

      I don't know what your age is, but apparently all these hormones decrease sharply over forty, so that's part of the reason I feel it's a good idea for me, along with the fact that mine almost certainly got depleted by chemical toxicity. Pregnenolone is one you shouldn't overdo apparently (but I get these results from a lot less than the daily limit). But Progesterone (the one that's in marina) is totally harmless, only beneficial, and only having too little of it in your system is harmful (and crazy-making!). It has a relaxing effect instantly.

      The first time I used it I overdid it massively - it's a cream and I slapped the full dose on, which was obviously too much for me because I went really (pleasantly) dozey and fell asleep! So if you do try it, test a tiny bit first! I only use a fingertip's worth, or two, now,rather than the full half-teaspoon...

      Have a good evening too! I'll be back with a proper reply, but had to say that quick (of course!) when I read about the hormones nightmare :)

      PS Your doctor sounds really cool, I'm envious! :)

    50. Superchick if I may:

      Did your parents have a turbulent relationship?

      Is your mom religious? A lot more so than your Dad?

      Does / did she often complain that he's nice to total strangers but not so nice to her & the family?

      If you don't mind, how did your family "break up"?


    51. Superchick - I just remembered also that there's an implant like the marina that goes in your arm (uses progestin too so should suit you just as well):

    52. Yes Jonaid I'd say tuburlant relationship... for sure. My mom tells me my dad wasn't always like this. In the beginning of their relationship he was a gentlemen. They broke up because my dad had a nasty little secret ( visiting prostitutes) that he still refuses to look at. It's like his mind has to turn it off. He starts getting edgy and reactive when my sister and I brought it up in the past. And for a long time my father deflected and blamed us for the breakup of his family. It was cruel. But my mom always knew his secret and when it came to where she saw how it affected me as a young teen now she knew it was time to leave. I had major sleeping problems because I kept that secret in me. Finally my sister revealed it and my mom started crying,"your daughter can't sleep. She's been on panic mode because of you. Always worrying of your next move. This is affecting her so much."

      When I was eight I begged my mom to not leave him. I loved my dad. I observed him all my life. I knew he was good but deeply struggled. She wanted to leave but stayed because of us. My mom always knew. When I viewed my dad I used to think " God dad you are a wise man, smart , funny, but your reactivity and explosive modes gets the best of you." I felt sorry for him. I can see how smart he was but his emotional roll coaster had more hold on him. My heart felt for him. Why? Because he was a sufferer himself and he was high functioning went unnoticed. But his family doc of thirty years always knew and when I brought up things to help my dad.

      He told me, " your father is 75 now his personality is set." Plus he's Italian & behaviour modification programs are of no use in English and his early dementia that's setting in.... There's no point. Everything has to be positive for your dad. You need to steer the convo positively or else he'll react and explode." His family doctor believes that my father was on the autism spectrum with borderline traits. Definitely high functioning.

      Anyway, when I was fourteen I begged my mom to leave, mom you must. You just must. Please mom leave. It wasn't fair on my mother and she was suffering with her own health.

      I just started seeing my dads double life outside. I'd respect him more if he came clean with it. But that's his switch. He can't. Only when he's ready -unfortunately -he'll admit to some things. And I often wonder if it's because he can't tolerate all his emotions that arise within. It's like he can handle stuff in steps, cycles, seasons when he's more logically sound. And those moments are a nice to witness. :)

      Anon 2 thanks for the hormone suggestions. Yes I'm definitely estrogen dominated. Not sure why, and it feeds so much of the problems, you are right. I'll check the stuff out that you mentioned. Appreciate the feedback. :)

    53. Oops Jonaid, yes brought up Catholic. Religious yes, not overly religious. My mom put us in Catholic choir & certain craft groups. I was an alter girl when I was young. God I loved singing soprano. Miss it. But for some reason I was more obsessive compulsive that latched onto a religious theme. My husband refuses to go to church regularly because of it. He says it hurts me and feeds it. So we go occasionally and it's always such a high religious experience that knocks me right out in a good way. I take it ALL in.

      Anon 2 I'm thirty eight years young :)

    54. Anon 2 really enjoyed this one. You might too.

    55. Thank you superchick.

      I'm sorry to hear about your experiences. You're very brave & resilient to not have lost it completely and become apathetic yourself.

      I have someone in the family who's almost identical to your father. Same issues...being excessively nice and honest and caring to strangers but almost equally dishonest and careless with his family's interests. I overlooked a lot of it, assuming it to be ADD or something but eventually I realized - without doubt - that this person is not "emotional" at all. He's actually a complete psychopath who's had his family fooled for decades. The reason why he explodes when confronted it because like any psycho, they fear confrontation more than anything.

      If only he'd remove the burden off his chest but confessing & apologizing to those he hurt. It's their pride that prevents them. Sad but it's the truth. It is incorrect to blame empathy or emotions for such a person's outcome. It's their own refusal to admit their OWN wrongs that's the problem.

      May God give you and your family some peace.

      Take care.

    56. "If only he'd remove the burden off his chest but confessing & apologizing to those he hurt. It's their pride that prevents them. Sad but it's the truth. It is incorrect to blame empathy or emotions for such a person's outcome. It's their own refusal to admit their OWN wrongs that's the problem."

      Exactly Jonaid , I agree. Just admit to your wrongs, apologies , it heals the whole person from within. And it's not that he can't , he just switches it off. Sad but true.

      Jonaid this goes deep. I was very affected and always felt a need to protect exchange for my own mental heath.

      And now I'm the most hyper-vigilant person you'll ever meet. Sad ....but I don't trust anyone. I told my husband, the world just feels unsafe to me and because I was groomed -- it's my job to protect my children at all costs and inform them what's appropriate and have I have a keen sense of boundaries I put in place within my environment.

      My husbands keeps telling these are your experiences and it's horrible that you live with them (your own reality) .....but there's also men that don't act in this way. Many men are just ......but sadly some aren't and what you endured is horrible.

      And sometimes i do read where a man takes a stand to protect women and children and that does restore my place in humanity. It's usually men who are kinda feminists. It's a cool movement to read on. And no it's not like what people think. It has nothing with putting down a gender to exalt the other one. Quite the contrary. Step by step I guess within seasons I get more healed. But sometimes it takes a trigger to re-gain strength, another level of recovery.

      But too many predators within the family setting and people who do anything to develops trust relationships with children. I can spot them. And they will not fuck with my family or children under my care. I tell my husband how a predator grooms -- they look like the best ones! Nothing gets passed me I've protected my own children at all costs and told my mom scenarios of how some men groom .....when mom is in the other room cooking a meal..... They are at it.

      My fucken reality.

      And no I'm not scarred like many would want to transfer that onto the abused child in disgust. I'm not dumb, people feel an instant disgust and try to put that onto an innocent child. Fuck that. I put the disgust on the accused. Let's keep it real. I've been in counselling, I've fought tooth and nail for my own sense of peace. My sense of reality. I survived and I will keep on surviving.

      We love are abusers because they've done bad to us, but more good, thus the cycle kept us stuck. They abused us while they fed our mouths and put roofs over our heads. We developed a strong sense of protection for the accused and the victim inside us.

      Lord have mercy that all I have to say and do what's just and right.

      Have a good day Jonaid. :)

    57. Great - thank you Superchick! :)

      I'm forty-four, and the reason I started reading up about hormones was because I was getting seriously worried about what the dreaded menopause was going to do to me! My pmt was getting so much worse that I was wondering whether I was heading into it already. Progesterone was the first thing that came up, and then I found out Pregnenelone is used as a 'treatment' too so I thought I'd do my experimenting ahead of the game...! I must say I'm a lot less anxious about it all now (in fact I rarely even think of it anymore, so it must be 'working' in some way). I suppose it's like the natural alternative to HRT (but without the heart-attack risks, etc, which come from the synthetic versions. Apparently it is really easy to make the bio-identical versions, but the reason that 'big pharma' doesn't is because they then cannot patent it! So they change it slightly, and patent it, and it's these changes that tend to carry risks which usually get discovered about ten yrs later!) I was also getting more sleepless/restless (and nightsweats etc) and found Melatonin good for that (from the same website).

      Anyway, that's enough about hormones, sorry to go on! Your posts were fascinating and very useful. I think you're totally right about cautioning me in relation to the 'borderline' assumption. What I had actualy realised in the meantime was that I am a lot more like YOU specifically than I am like any of the descriptions of borderline I am reading. I absolutely love time alone, happy as a lark, have never really desperately wanted company except when I was physically ill and craved comfort, and have absolutely no self-harming instinct. It's quite possible (or likely even) that I was answering the online tests much more 'sensitively' than any objective practioner, with knowledge of how I'd compare to other, would. I was getting scoring 'likely to be borderline' quite a lot, with just one saying 'unlikely'. But it's very likely that I consider myself more volatile / paranoid / 'unreal' / addictive-personality, etc, than I actually 'am' or would be considered when compared. I can't really say I have anger issues even - I don't that often get angry - it's just that when I do can be very fast and intense (but only like anything else, really, including the 'positive' emotions). I definitely do have an ocd / obsessive / autistic streak, as well, but again, it's maybe to 'quirky' rather than problematic levels (though did actually have the occasional ocd-ish habit at points during childhood too). I also realised I was probably scoring myself on PMT behaviour, most of the time, and it occurred to me that if I edited out all PMT-related incidents it would be a different picture - not at all extreme, possibly. So, yet again, I think I probably got a bit carried away with the enthusiasm and interest in it all! :) I was just so struck by our similarity (and assumed if you were 'proper borderline' I must also!). We we seem to overlap strongly on traits that don't really get a mention, especially all the empathy stuff.

    58. I appreciate your replying when you're too blah to think, by the way..! Please don't feel at all obligated to reply if you're like that, I find it immensely hard work getting my brain to do stuff when I am :)

      That makes so much sense, the left/right brain stuff - right-brain bias and the alternation between extremes of each. Yep! (and yes it is delicious when your head/feelings clear enough to achieve straightforward logical efficiency once in a while - that extreme version I had that time was amazing, I couldn't believe how simple it became..)

      I really feel for your Dad and grandfather. It makes me realise how lucky I am to be not to have to cope with that level of emotional experience (but can imagine it from some of my experience with the mercury illness). You and your husband sound a great combination! It makes total sense to me and so do your comparisons of borderline and sociopath types. Yes, I would say more in common than not too, speaking for myself - that's how it feels to me. The stimulation thing definitely! There's something about that that just works. And the calming influence on us, of that cool rational approach is great - I love that, love how that effect feels.

      Arthritic pain - funnily enough, I was getting a lot during the mercury thing but it's gone now. But three socio types I've know all had bad back pain plague them...

      I know what you emean about the 'exploiting' going both ways, too - ways we are not aware of if we don't understand their wiring, and expecting things which are incredibly hard/unnatural from them too, or things hard and unpleasant for them to endure.

      Thanks again & I'll watch that video tonight! :)

    59. Superchick

      "And now I'm the most hyper-vigilant person you'll ever meet. Sad ....but I don't trust anyone. I told my husband, the world just feels unsafe to me and because I was groomed -- it's my job to protect my children at all costs and inform them what's appropriate and have I have a keen sense of boundaries I put in place within my environment."

      I totally understand where you're coming from. It's better to be hyper-vigilant than carefree and it's certainly better to be hyper-vigilant than to give up because of stress and kill your own empathy. I would have been the same or worse (a psychopath) had it not been for God miraculously saving me. I went from a staunch atheist to a staunch believer in God so while I still get stressed or worried sometimes, it's nothing that could cause paranoia. If you know for a fact that ultimately all matters are in His control, you really have nothing to worry about except yourself. The key is to trust in Him, and always intend to do the right thing.

      Thanks again for sharing. All the best.

    60. I'm mid-way through your video, Superchick... Yes, I like these ideas! :) Just the ticket for our type, especially, I think! Really important... Excellent stuff, Thank you very much :)

    61. Superchick - Yep, that comment that M.E's just posted really fits me (my sociopath friendships) too... amazing. Do you find you have an ability to 'offend' without meaning to? I find the 'unoffendable' type a really refreshing break from can relax and not have to censor/double-check your 'thinking aloud' and can just be yourself with them... I hate offending people - never mean to - but seem to have a knack for saying the wrong thing/ being misunderstood. On the other hand, I also have a tendency to imagine I've offended when I haven't (the paranoid streak)...! Such hard work, all that :)

    62. Jonaid God is good. : ) I understand the atheist mindset as well , I also understand that supernatural spiritual mindset. To God be the glory! And yes He saved us! To someone looking in we might look like religious nuts, I can understand that, I question myself a lot, haha...... How the cross can look foolish to some, and how it looks so glorious to others. Thanks for your empathetic heart, you're encouraging words and your listening ear. :)

      Anon 2 I think your amazing , :) I'm at docs waiting room ...going to ask him about those hormones you mentioned to check into. I can't thank you enough!

      We are more alike in our thinking and maybe we do have a tendency to pathologize our minds and question??? I do it lots. Wow I can relate too the neaurotypical, borderline, sociopath mindet, etc, etc ! Wait aspergurs too ! Haha ! ;)

      We are normal ! and we just experience things with more intensity, possibly. When our brains are turned's beautiful

      When it's turned off it's fascinating and relieving. But maybe that's normal. ;)

      We feed the blessing of it and try to starve the curse of feeling so much.

      Yes I can worry that I offended -- not wanting to. So I can over-compensate, trying not too though. But depending on the day I can fall within it or not. Not falling into it is tough because I can over-think things that are not even an issue. The paranoid mindet. Lol. Yes. Rehearse convo over and over and have to tell my mind to shut up !!! I totally smiled at your writing and thoughts ..... because this me too !

      My husband has this amazing ability to not diagnose me AT all. He's like honey " stop diagnosing yourself." You're YOU !

      The only diagnose my family doctor will give me is OCD. Then I mention the borderline and bipolar that two docs both thought. One doc says no bipolar just bpd traits ( not full diagnose). The other one says no bpd - just bipolar.

      My family doc says OCD , then I bring up the conflicting bipolar and bpd views that those two doctors had....they both disagreed with each other about each others diagnose of me.

      So now he adds in OCD with bpd traits and bipolar tendencies. Haha! He smiles cause he don't really agree with them. He looks at my symptoms to treat ....not the diagnose.

      But there's a bipolar three called Cyclothymia and I see myself in that one more. I can fall into hypo-manic tendencies. Or maybe this is ALL normal and I feel my emotions intensely. Lol

      Have a great evening. :-)

    63. Superchick, lots more to say but in a rush (ah, Leo would not approve..! But life doesn't always play ball, alas.. life's a bully) and just wanted to say check out this girl's story... all this hormone stuff is fascinating... (I hope your doc was open-minded but even if not don't dismiss it outright - sometimes they are well-meaning but misinformed or ten years behind, or constrained by the health system which is in hoc to the drugs companies half the time!..:) Are you very sceptical too? I rarely trust 'authority'! :)
      Anyway, check out Doris...

    64. Ya lots and lots of things I really like about Leo's video blogs but there's other things that doesn't fit with me. And what I like about him, he'd have no problem with's finding what works best for you. The uh high moments within you. :)

      Family doc suggested the marina iud progesterone only again, but there's another kind that last for three years instead of five. The last one was good for 2.5 years before the infections started. So fingers crossed. He told me NO more birth control pills for you, lol. Some girls can go kinda loopy on em.

      I'm skeptical of people , yes of course , radars are good.... In check. I've been fucked over many times. My skeptical radour is on high alert. ;)

      I will check her out for sure, thanks. gotta go check on animals, dam ravens got to three last night. Fuck! Have a peaceful sleep.

      I'm sure this thead can go on and on we seem to hit it off good :)

    65. Meant the uh huh moments within you. My phone autocorrected.

    66. You're welcome.

      It's been interesting & informative; the discussion with you both.

    67. Superchick..."Committing to not have a life"! I love it :) I like how far he takes it :) I'm already very sympathetic to this kind of thinking, but it's unusual to hear someone saying it! And I like the way he puts it, that's great. I know he's right from my own experience, in the sense that whenever I've hit a 'meditative' vein, at times in my life, and managed to stick with it at all, they've been the best times by far. It absolutely works. And he's right you get sucked back in imperceptibly. Ironically, since chiming with what he was saying the other day, life has suddenly swamped me with stuff I can't get out of! But temporarily, and I'm going to be thinking of Leo's "commitment" and grabbing back "not having a life" as soon as it's passed!

      I'm sorry to hear about the animals... Ravens are scary, so bold..(do you know some of them can live til 80 odd years old!)

      That's great news about the marina! Last thing we need is pills sending our most unruly hormones haywire! You mentioning bipolar was what reminded me of Doris's story and I remembered enjoying reading her account and liking her too, so I guessed you might. If I drop out for a while during the next hectic couple of weeks I'll catch up with you later! V best luck :) and thanks again :)


      "Wow I can relate too the neaurotypical, borderline, sociopath mindet, etc, etc ! Wait aspergurs too ! Haha ! ;) "

      Yep - tell me about it!!

      "Yes I can worry that I offended -- not wanting to. So I can over-compensate, trying not too though. But depending on the day I can fall within it or not. Not falling into it is tough because I can over-think things that are not even an issue. The paranoid mindet. Lol. Yes. Rehearse convo over and over and have to tell my mind to shut up !!! I totally smiled at your writing and thoughts ..... because this me too ! "

      And that's all totally me! Over compensating, over-thinking, over-everything! nutsy :) But I like your angle that we are normal...just feel stuff more intensely than average :) (oh and yep, I get manically-bubbly too)

      Jonaid - Yes, was for me too! Thank you for your response on the other thread too, by the way, which I've read but haven't had time to add to. It's a swine being misunderstood isn't it! As I said to Superchick, the pressure's on so I'll probably go quieter for a bit, but catch up with you both again soon! :) All best!

  6. I agree that without empathy we are fucked and that so are numerous other species. Which is actually worth noticing. The biosphere supports us all, plant, animal and human.

    I took offense in the video that the very real, albeit overly 'hysterical' concerns, about some poor kid stuck in a well was compared with caring profoundly about the biosphere.

    I profoundly fucking care about the biosphere and the kid stuck in the well. Creating and sustaining all life is Beauty, thus my religion.

    Without empathy human beings are nothing more than biological machines. Preying insects whose instinct is to invade, conquer and kill. I would gently point out that human black widows feeding off mankind destroy not only people, but crucial life-supporting systems for countless organisms.

    Imagine your diet without pollinating insects, the soil a corpse that can't grow plants because its most vital microorganism has been extinguished by Monsanto's herbicides. The reality is that the cold exploits of a toxic, sociopathic corporation like Monsanto has global implications that extend beyond humanity, to the heart and soul of Gaia.

    Life is rare and precious.

    Real empathy in balance with the ability to detach from emotions when the occasion demands is to love all life equally and realize its value.

    And: I don't believe for one second that sociopaths feel nothing. All sentient creatures experience pain and 'happiness and contentment' as in the afterglow of a great meal.

    Mr. Hyde

    1. "Without empathy human beings are nothing more than biological machines."

      But they are. Even with empathy - that's just another mechanism.

      "Life is rare and precious."

      Life is just a tribute to death. It's fun while we're here, but it all ends the same way. I don't kid myself into thinking it's magic sitting around staring at the walls when I could be out doing something fun.

      Do I have a preference as to how things are organized? Yes because it increases my chances of having fun. Is it better that people are fed, clothed, whatever? Yes, because people who have their basic needs satisfied are less likely to try to rob me, or at the very least less likely to whine. I'm not fostering life, I'm enhancing my own life.

    2. "I took offense in the video that the very real, albeit overly 'hysterical' concerns, about some poor kid stuck in a well was compared with caring profoundly about the biosphere."

      Yes, well said. I find the video pretty weird right through. I don't think the author has a clue about empathy actually. I don't think he's someone who understands it experientially.

    3. "And: I don't believe for one second that sociopaths feel nothing. All sentient creatures experience pain and 'happiness and contentment' as in the afterglow of a great meal"

      Excellent Mr.Hyde, I resonate with this statement : -)

    4. Resonate? What are you ? A tuning fork or full of shit? My vote is on the latter given the keyboard diarrhea spewed to date. JMHO.

    5. Miserable cunt!

  7. Wow Mr. Bloom here flipped the reality upside down and used his Yale credentials to sell it to as many people as possible. So it's not that sociopathic politicians lie to the ignorant masses (who have no way of knowing better) and sell them an illegal war that's the problem, it's the ignorant masses' empathy that's the problem. It's not our selfishness and greed leading us to suck the planet dry and gradually destroy the biosphere that's the problem, it's our empathizing with dying children too much that's the problem.

    It is scary that some clown can be employed by our top universities nowadays and not get fired for publishing utter and PLAIN stupidity like this.

    Empathy in it of itself is ONLY good. The harm is not in being empathic or too empathic, the harm comes when you let your emotions completely dominate you. Even then the harm is not from empathy itself but from being vulnerable to other, less empathic, people taking advantage of you. Paul Bloom pulled a typical psychopathic trick here: you ruin someone's mind by abusing their trust and ruining their life, then when they scream and cry, you point at them and say "see, look what emotions do to you."

    1. Wow, Jonaid you went a whole post without slobbering about god for once. Congratulations.

      "It is scary that some clown can be employed by our top universities nowadays and not get fired for publishing utter and PLAIN stupidity like this."

      Challenging perspectives, especially deeply entrenched things that people assume about the world is often the best way to find out something new. At the very least it illuminates why people believe in those assumptions.

      That's why he's the professor and you're the religious nutjob.

    2. So the defense to Bloom's twisting of logic & facts and caricaturing of empathy is:

      1) I don't like most of your comments.
      2) It's okay to "challenge" anything, no matter how foolishly or incorrectly, because that's how one innovates.
      3) Don't you know professors are always right and the Godly (which I assume can never be professors?) are nutjobs?

      It would have been more "challenging," Scarlet, if you actually defended his argument or rebutted mine. It's okay tho I'm not surprised.

      Have a nice day.

    3. Oh you misunderstand, the first point wasn't meant as a rebuttal, it was just a reminder that you're an asshole.

      As for point 2 yes. That's how it works. Descartes challenged basic assumptions about how we even know the world exists and opened up a huge field on the philosophy of mind. He questioned something cretins like you would laugh at ("How do I know what I see is real?") and came out of it with insight. Which also inspired other philosophers to examine the same issues.

      Like I said, even if the prof. in the OP is "ungodly and stupid and evil and blah blah blah" he's challenging an assumption and even if he's wrong the counterpoint other educated people make will be revealing. They'll have to justify empathy on more than a flimsy "well that's the default state so it's right". It'll at the very least cause people to inquire and think.

      In short I don't need to rebut your point because you missed the entire argument. That's why I implied you're an idiot and clearly not cut out to be a professor. The only thing you're suited for is trolling a blog with religious crap and maybe blowing yourself up eventually (it is what fanatics do I hear).

    4. "In short I don't need to rebut your point because you missed the entire argument."

      I did miss it because it wasn't there. Maybe you ought to stop insulting and make yourself clear. You have ignored my points and insist that challenging known truths is good because it leads to insight. Please explain then why Bloom is right instead of just saying "he's challenging it and that is good." That is a red herring.

      Descartes repeated, almost verbatim, the point Ghazali made more than half a millennium before him. Regardless, he was proving God's existence when he was showing us how we know what we know. Did you catch the irony in that?

    5. "Please explain then why Bloom is right"

      I never advanced the claim that he was, but I see now the reason you missed my point is that you live in a black and white world - if Bloom has a point it has to 'right' or 'wrong' can't be anything else. There's only good and evil, sinners and saved right?

      Seems like a very narrow way to see things. But of course that's expected when it comes to religious idiocy isn't it?

      It's not a red herring to say the implications of his work will be good whether or not he can prove his claim. I already gave you one ex. of someone who couldn't prove their claim but still influenced modern thought. Do you need more?

      And I'm insulting you because you take it. It's amusing, and honestly I want to know if you're the type to blow up or withdraw or just try to ignore me. You're a mouse among cats and you didn't expect anyone to try to bat you around?

    6. Umm yes, I do think if something isn't true it is irrational,illogical, stupid and harmful to advance it. Simple example: challenge the laws of gravity and try running off a cliff. Who knows it might lead you to an amazing new discovery. Oh wait, you won't and you shouldn't because it is simply irrational and stupid to assume - without evidence - that it will work out.

      This used to be common sense. Now it's a "position." Reality doesn't change because some people twist it in their minds.

      Anyhow, let's agree to disagree instead of quarreling over this.

      Take care.

    7. Sorry I should ask: am I living in a "black and white world" because I clearly see only one outcome for someone driving off a cliff?

      I think I'm happy with a "limited" mind.

    8. "Simple example: challenge the laws of gravity and try running off a cliff."

      I believe there's a quote "I told Orville and I told Wilbur and now I'm telling you that thing won't fly." referring to the Wright brothers. You know, the people who held what was considered at the time the "illogical, stupid and harmful" idea that heavier than air flight was possible.

      Do I need to go on? You're an idiot and I can keep saying it and proving it with examples, but you seem to be content believing that only what already exists can exist.

    9. "But you seem to be content believing that only what already exists can exist."

      You don't read what the other person says, do you? Another red herring? Believing something unknown exists is NOT the same as believing that fixed, known realities can be altered. Something new is not the same as denying or twisting the reality of the old. If Bloom said he found a new way for people to care about each other, without empathy, than he'd be innovating. What he did; and you defend; is outright lie about how empathy operates in the real world and then suggest we ought to discredit it.

      Now you really don't need to waste your time putting together a pile of words just to say you think I'm an idiot.


  8. This blog is really corny I see that now...
    Regards, Morten.

    1. Some of the posts are pretty corny too.
      Regards, Scarlet.

    2. So what is it like to be a bot?
      Regards, Morten.

    3. I wouldn't know. What is it like to be trite?
      Regards, Scarlet.

  9. Cold-blooded criminal psychopaths can feel empathy new study finds

    1. Imagine that? Now, consider for whom and the basis that they might turn the volume up? That is more interesting...

  10. In my view what makes a man strong is a sense of right and wrong and a man who doesn't tolerate injustice. Look around and you notice how most people have loose morals nowadays. What makes someone worthwhile is a strong sense of right and wrong. An unscrupulous person without a sense of right and wrong good and evil is worthless to me. All men who have improved this world for the better all had a strong sense of right and wrong. The latter just damaged it. Any creep who says morality or truth is subjective is not welcome in my home and I wouldn't leave my nephew's or nieces around that type of human garbage.

  11. Damn, I love michael savage. Anyone else a savage listener? I'm not even a huge radio person but he's the most refreshingly honest host out there. He's like 70 and he just keeps going. He doesn't just lay around and play the wise old person role like others his age. He's still young at heart.

  12. Adam is there a lot of gang culture where your at? Is it safe to walk the streets? I just finished watching a documentary on street gangs. Omg, how does one feel safe anymore. Watching that not sure there's too much hope for the human race. 8/

  13. Adam - There is nothing as sexy as a 'tough' man with a good heart.

  14. Adam giving us a lecture. Actually this is good.

  15. BS meter redlines. How the fk does every article get hijacked by the usual bores discussing their personal bs? NPD much?

  16. Let me address the topic, that was originally posted, "Against empathy". Bloom states that empathy is a self-fulfilling goal; and that anyone with empath abilities seeks a global Utopian reality. How ego eccentric is that; and delusional!!

  17. Let me address the topic, that was originally posted, "Against empathy". Bloom states that empathy is a self-fulfilling goal; and that anyone with empath abilities seeks a global Utopian reality. How ego eccentric is that; and delusional!!


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