Sunday, June 19, 2016

Rodents have empathy?

Researchers did a follow up experiment to some earlier rat empathy studies and found that rats were willing to help other rats even to their own detriment, but only if they had some prior familiarity with the particular strain of rats, e.g. an albino rat being bunk mates with a black and white rat. If they didn't have any previous experience with that strain of rat, they would not help. Or according to the Washington Post: "The creatures aren’t born with an innate motivation to help rats of their own kind, but instead those with whom they are socially familiar."


The rat empathy thing is interesting because it suggests an evolutionary advantage to empathy, not necessarily a "humans are special snowflakes of the animal world" reason for empathy. The articles discussing the findings use an interesting choice of words that accords -- they call the rats actions "noble" and other such language. This helps explain to me a little more why the fetishism for empathy, that people are biologically pre-programmed not only to engage in empathetic acts, but that they are also pre-programmed to find those acts appealing in the same sort of way that they crave sugar or find others attractive or not based on their pheromones.

Another interesting idea is that with all of these studies with animals and empathy (see also prairie moles), the animals will not act with empathy unless they are familiar with either the particular animal in need (spoiler alert, but see for example Ser Jaime's actions in recent Game of Thrones episodes) or at least someone of the same breed. It's like what they say about gay people or mormon people or any other people that a lot of people often have a hard time understanding or being ok with -- you just have to know one or two of them personally in order to humanize them to your own self.

What implications does this have for sociopaths, if everyday sociopaths stay hidden forever? Will people never learn to show empathy to them?

160 comments:

  1. FIRST!!!

    WOO-HOO!!!

    ~Vegas

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. M.E.-

      So, when's the "Book Signing/Pool Party", at your place???

      Let me know!!!

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    2. Book Signing/Pool Party?

      I miss so much not being able to read the site during the day. XD

      Delete
    3. Hey Damaged-

      Yep.:)

      You haven't missed it-waiting to hear back from M.E.:)

      PS-I wasn't able to give you the updated count, last time you posted.:(

      Hemingway House 6-toed cat count: -7

      You've been busy.:)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
  2. "What implications does this have for sociopaths, if everyday sociopaths stay hidden forever? Will people never learn to show empathy to them?"

    What does this mean? Which kind of a "sociopath" are you referring to here who needs empathy but isn't getting any? Please define the term because I'm sure I'm not the only one who's confused.

    If you're referring to someone with sociopathic traits who wants to change and be understood, then I can understand. People like this join religious communities and are not judged, but are praised for their turning around. I can speak mostly for my own religion. Someone converting to Islam is automatically considered a pure soul, having cleaned their slate altogether (since they repent upon converting & and vow to lead a better life). They get more empathy and respect than someone who's lived a moral life all along.

    You can't say you want to openly & happily be unempathetic yourself, extremely selfish and deceitful and be considered okay. By definition that's what a sociopath is, whether it's by choice or not. You can come out and say "I don't want to be like this and am committed to changing" and then expect empathy. If it isn't given then, and you're judged for your past, then you're better than the people who's empathy you were hoping to get.

    I've learned that when it comes to nothing but the truth, VERY, VERY few people will stand with you all the way, no matter what their psychiatric label. That's true emotional control - to still remain committed to truth & honesty - not the facade psychos display.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Sociopaths do seem to understand the concept of empathy. This blog is an example of it. Sociopaths seem to be empathetic towards the plight of other sociopaths. However that empathy doesn't seem to extend much past their own kind.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What is the plight of sociopaths?

      Delete
    2. This blog is written by a sociopath. They are pathological liars. Making assumptions based on this stuff is just silly.

      Delete
  4. Experiments also show that after rat society gets to big they will kill every last rat until the society is dead.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Then, do they kill themselves?

      Delete
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      Delete
  5. What implications does this have for sociopaths, if everyday sociopaths stay hidden forever? Will people never learn to show empathy to them?

    Yes, we should pity sociopaths. They are poor victims! Utter nonsense, like always.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Oh, non sociopaths (psychopaths) are not angels, this mean we should be allowed to abuse people as we like!

      So smart as always. Same bullshit, every blog post.

      Delete
    2. anon 12:13 what we mean to say if the first anon agrees with me is that psychopaths are totally not going to feel empathy so why should they have any from others. When non psychopaths depending on the situation and person should get it. But why discuss this, I find that question by M.E. pointless and baseless because non psychopaths are always showing empathy to sociopaths. That's why they are being hurt and abused.

      Delete
    3. Point well made. That's why I asked her what she means. The socio feeds off of people's empathy so what does she mean when she asks should they get empathy.

      I've shown and continue to show empathy to psychos & narcs even after knowing they're deliberately lying. You're getting it all the time...good people don't point out your facade to your face always. We're just not going to say it's okay to be a sociopath.

      Delete
    4. When we as a species act civilized and can shift from fault mentality to solution mentality, a bridge can be built. If life is truly a game, there is only one team. Win/win is the new paradigm. We have all helped to create and perpetuate our seeming separation, by continuing to give lip service to one thing, but doing another. When we learn to accept what is, without judgment, look beyond individuals behavior and acknowledge we are all doing our best though everyone's best is different and not always aligned with what they know, maybe we can learn to afford grace to everyone, regardless. That being said, we all need to practice due diligence. When we see harm being perpetarted, we need to call it out. Putting down individuals is a repellant and keeps the us verses them paradigm problem going. Seeking first to understand, is what we can ALL benefit from. It doesn't matter who is right and who is wrong, rather, what am i willing to do about it? Pointing a finger at anyone else usually makes them dig their heels in more. The thing evil needs to overcome good in the world is for any of us to turn a blind eye. Face the fear when it comes. It passes when you learn to embrace it,

      Delete
    5. I like this perspective. Moving away from blame allows us each to create solutions in our own lives and between each other. It's a growing up.

      Delete
    6. 'When we learn to accept what is, without judgment, look beyond individuals behavior and acknowledge we are all doing our best though everyone's best is different and not always aligned with what they know, maybe we can learn to afford grace to everyone, regardless.' I'll paraphrase this: We learn to accept an individual without questioning, look beyond their abusive behaviour and aknowledge they are doing the best they can, so poor things let them be. Maybe we can afford being abused, and love unconditionally.
      The problem with this is that a lot of NTs are already doing this. It sucks.

      Delete
    7. Yes blind empathy is dangerous because it let's psychos have free reign. One should be forgiving always but not let a psycho fool you once you know what they're up to. The seasoned psycho completely lacks shame & remorse ...the turning cheek business won't work on him.

      Anon 3:21 what you said is what should be in all cases expect when dealing with those who cross all limits. They're turned off by empathy anyway so give them what they want.

      Delete
    8. Anon 12:31

      It is a risk, for sure. But the one doesn't necessarily lead to the other.

      In our childhood, we were dependent on others.

      As adults, we have the capacity to be sufficiently grounded in who we are to be collaborative rather than dependent.

      I think that's a reasonable defence against systematic abuse. We can always engage in our own terms and then negotiate.

      Delete
  6. Watch "All Watched Over Machines of Loving Grace" part 3, The Monkey In the Machine.

    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2eku4s_all-watched-over-by-machines-of-loving-grace-3-3-the-monkey-in-the-machine-2011_animals

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If this stuff actually interest you, over the childish sociopath (psychopath) agenda.

      Delete
    2. great filmmaker him!

      Delete
  7. I think pheromones are interesting.:)

    ~Vegas

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This song mentions smell.

      Alanis Morissette's lover in this song, must have had awesome pheromones.:)

      Song of the Day:

      Alanis Morissette

      Untitled

      A-This is a "secret" track, off the Jagged Little Pill album. I thought I'd mention that, since you shared with me, lesser known songs off the Pink Floyd "Meddle" album.:)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    2. A-

      PS-When you were describing your hair, I imagined it to be like Alanis Morissette's.:) I love her hair!!!

      I've seen her in concert, too-she has a voice!!!

      It was awesome!!!

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    3. Thanks. Alanis Morisette is a bit too whiny for my tastes.

      Delete
    4. Here's a new one by the Red Hot Chili Peppers that I like. The lyrics resonate with me. I think you'll enjoy it.

      "Dark Necessities"

      Coming on to the light of day we got
      Many moons that are deep at play so I
      Keep an eye on the shadow smile
      To see what it has to say
      You and I both know
      Everything must go away
      What do you say

      Spinning Knot that is on my heart is like a
      Bit of light in a touch of dark you got
      Sneak attack from the zodiac
      But I see your fire spark
      Eat the breeze and go
      Blow by blow and go away
      What do you say
      Yeah

      You don't know my mind
      You don't know my kind
      Dark necessities are part of my design and
      Tell the world that I'm
      Falling from the sky
      Dark necessities are part of my design

      Stumble down to the parking lot you got
      No time for the after thought they're like
      Ice Cream for an Astronaut
      Well that's me looking for we
      Turn the corner and
      Find the world at your command
      Playing the hand
      Yeah

      You don't know my mind
      You don't know my kind
      Dark necessities are part of my design

      Tell the world that I'm
      Falling from the sky
      Dark necessities are part of my design

      Do you want this love of mine
      Darkness helps us all to shine
      Do you want it, do you want it now

      Do you want it all the time
      But darkness helps us all to shine
      Do you want it, do you want it now

      Pick you up like a paper back with the
      Track record of a maniac so I
      Move it in and we unpack
      It's the same as yesterday
      Any way we roll
      Everything must go away, what do you say
      Yeah

      You don't know my mind
      You don't know my kind
      Dark necessities are part of my design

      Tell the world that I'm
      Falling from the sky and
      Dark necessities are part of my design

      Delete
    5. A-

      I LOVE THE LYRICS, TO THAT RED HOT CHILI PEPPERS SONG-THANK YOU!!!

      I got to see them in concert when they toured for "Californiacation" with Velvet Revolver. THEY ROCKED!!!

      Thinking of Velvet Revolver-Stone Temple Pilot's "Plush", is my husband's and my "love song".

      The irony of life.:)

      Stone Temple Pilots

      Plush

      Here are the lyrics:

      And I feel that time's a wasted go
      So where ya going to tomorrow?
      And I see that these are lies to come
      Would you even care?

      And I feel it
      And I feel it

      Where ya going for tomorrow?
      Where ya going with that mask I found?
      And I feel, and I feel
      When the dogs begin to smell her
      Will she smell alone?

      And I feel, so much depends on the weather
      So is it raining in your bedroom?
      And I see, that these are the eyes of disarray
      Would you even care?

      And I feel it
      And she feels it

      Where ya going to tomorrow?
      Where ya going with that mask I found?
      And I feel, and I feel
      When the dogs begin to smell her
      Will she smell alone?

      When the dogs do find her
      Got time, time, to wait for tomorrow
      To find it, to find it, to find it
      When the dogs do find her
      Got time, time, to wait for tomorrow
      To find it, to find it, to find it

      Where ya going for tomorrow?
      Where ya going with that mask I found?
      And I feel, and I feel
      When the dogs begin to smell her
      Will she smell alone?

      When the dogs do find her
      Got time, time, to wait for tomorrow
      To find it, to find it, to find it
      When the dogs do find her
      Got time, time, to wait for tomorrow
      To find it, to find it, to find it

      To find it
      To find it
      To find it

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    6. A-

      The irony is that I picked that as our "love song", and I didn't even know-at least not on a conscious level.

      "When the dogs begin to smell her
      Will she smell alone?

      When the dogs do find her"

      I hope not.:(

      So far, so good.:)

      I'm sad Scott Weiland died in December.:( Loved him.:)

      We had 300 people at our wedding, so I chose Goo Goo Dolls "Iris" as our 1st dance song, but "Plush" is our "love song".:)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    7. A-

      It's been awhile since I listened to Stone Temple Pilots "Core" and "Purple" albums, and just listened to them again-THEY ARE SO AWESOME!!!

      Scott Weiland had an orgasmic voice.:) Too bad, the drugs won.:(

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    8. A-

      I heard "Dark Necessities" playing yesterday, and I thought of you.:)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
  8. A few resources, ME:

    A Natural History of Human Morality: Why being good is a miracle

    Tomasello also makes an endearing guide, appearing happily amazed that morality exists at all. “It is a miracle that we are moral, and it did not have to be this way. It just so happens that, on the whole, those of us who made mostly moral decisions most of the time had more babies… We should simply marvel and celebrate the fact that, mirabile dictu (and Nietzsche notwithstanding), morality appears to be somehow good for our species, our cultures, and ourselves – at least so far.”

    Cynics will point out that it is frequently the other way: we are all strongly motivated by self-interest, and much prejudice and most wars are caused by the in-group/out-group mentality. But for Tomasello, it is no contradiction that selfish and altruistic motivations coexist. Besides, he notes cheerfully, in any situation our “generous or egalitarian motives can in principle win out, as people demonstrate every day as they sacrifice themselves for others”.


    ****************
    Stanford Encyclopaedia of Philosophy: Morality and Evolutionary Biology

    For example, many of us believe that among our various moral duties, we have special and stringent duties toward family members. Might this ‘moral intuition’ be attributable, at least in part, to an evolved tendency to favor members of one's kin group over others, analogous to similar traits in other animals? Even where moral beliefs are heavily shaped by culture, there might be such evolutionary influences in the background: evolved psychological traits may have contributed to the shaping of cultural practices themselves, influencing, for example, the development of “family first” cultural norms that inform our judgments. Similarly with a tendency more generally to favor members of one's own group (however defined) over outsiders.

    The above sorts of questions, which are receiving growing attention in the sciences, all pertain to morality understood as a set of empirical phenomena to be explained: it is an empirical fact about human beings that we make moral judgments, have certain feelings and behave in certain ways, and it is natural for the sciences to seek causal explanations for such phenomena.


    **********
    Why are religions so judgemental? Ask evolution

    ***********
    Why people help distant kin
    Natural selection favors people who help close kin at their own expense: It can increase the odds the family’s genes are passed to future generations. But why assist distant relatives? Mathematical simulations suggest “socially enforced nepotism” encourages helping far-flung kin.
    ***********

    People change their moral values to benefit themselves over others

    People are quick to change their moral values depending on which rule means more cash for them instead of others, a study shows. The researchers conclude that the "Pursuit of self-interest is tempered by the constraints of coordination. People seek not only to benefit themselves but also to persuade other people that they are morally right in doing so."

    There are tons of scientific articles concerning social behaviour, many indicating evolutionary influences.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This is why the data of psychopathic experience is important. We can use it to test the assumptions we make about the human condition; we can design better experiments to understand the whole species.

      Empathy is not some magic elixir. It's just a tool gifted to many of us through our genetic heritage simply because it led to "more babies".

      The psychopathic paradigm is perfectly valid for its existence. And you are right, ME, the better our predictive models about sociopaths, the easier we will naturally find it to empathise with them - noting of course our dominant preference for fairness and our inclination to exclude those who act unfairly.

      Delete
    2. ME,

      Once we understand the current state of the human condition is purely contingent, we can fully embrace ourselves as being ok.

      There aren't some externally imposed absolutes we're each being measured against; instead we are each simply equipped, within a social species, to survive. Our experience of life is less contingent... yet it is sufficiently so that we have the capacity to make it wonderful.

      Delete
  9. Can someone separate the neurotypicals and sociopaths on this blog?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. North-

      Maybe Anon @ 4:06 didn't like my song.:(

      I thought I would do a "mellow" song today, after how the last post went.:(

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    2. you should be able to tell yourself

      Delete
  10. I think sociopaths once identified through brain scans, should be locked up in a completely white room for the rest of their lives, and be fed nothing but the blandest bread and water.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Negative. Empaths wouldn't allow this. Thats why human rights exist.

      Delete
    2. You come across as ignorant. I suggest you also follow your own advise. I'll butter your bread. You normal neurotypical person.

      Not ALL sociopathic trait individuals are careless individuals. Most sociopathic trait individuals benefit and advance the society around us. They're your average CEO's, bankers, fire fighters, lawyers, cops, business men, etc...

      It becomes a disorder when it's pathologized and disruptive to the individual and the individuals relationships around them. It's a wide spectrum as there are many subtypes. It's a personality. There's a theme.

      My default mode is borderline "traits." I actually did testing so consider me a mild borderline. I did not meet full-diagnostic criteria. I did not meet the five out of the nine out of nine traits. I stay in some traits longer than the average individual.

      My husbands default mode: let's just say some sociopathic "traits." (Definitely not one) and he did not do any testing. He's logical, objective, straightforward and cool under pressure. At times he comes across condescending. My father in law always thought he'd make a good sergeant like his grand father. He's also free of any type of delusional thinking. He's sharp as a whip. When I fret over something, he's pretty much two steps ahead and figured out how to fix it already. Lol. It' just comes naturally. He only cares for his family. His circle. He says - us. He's respectful to others and respected back ....but his emotional output belongs only to his family and real close friends. My mother in law told mentioned a long time ago that he comes across intense but he's actually the sensitive one inside. You have to know how tap into it. She's right. When he people in - you can't help but be intuned and absorb all he's saying. And if he cries you want to tear up.... because it takes him a lot to make him cry. He'll run his elbows wiping his tears back. :(

      It's a ying and a yang in our relationship. Its like clay in a mold and a glove that fits. It keeps building itself up. If it tries to clash - I quickly remind him that his default mold is trying to over-ride me. And he's not being as receptive to my emotional needs than he can be. He then stops. He remembers his dad being critical- belittling of him and his siblings to do things that needed to be done. He doesn't want to do act like that. He doesn't want to come across as hard but kind-hearted. And I challenge him. Questions like: Does that work? Did it work for you growing up? Is this actually the outcome you want here? NO.
      If I'm being overly-emotionally reactive he tries to remind me that what I'm doing just ain't working and to calm the fuck down.... Take a few steps back and think it through. It's submission with both of us. Other times, pride is so stuck up with us. Lol Eventually I reset. He resets. And we are better equipped to talk to one another with the respect we both deserve. We are both trying to the meet a need is us and also be receptive to the needs of each other. I often wonder what the metaphorical relationship between us is.... As to why we feel so attracted to one another. It never goes away. It just doesn't fade as the years go on with us. He can look at me with those intense blue eyes and me with my exotic eyes (he says) and the floodgates of feelings start to open up immediately. Lol

      Delete
    3. For us: We are not diagnosed. But we swim within the traits. Like a fish swimming under water .... But not jumping above it and meeting threshold.

      Being a sociopath is very rare. I believe that most people are not sociopaths on this blog. Just these human traits are amplified with some. If most of the individuals on this blog got a psychiatric assessment from a qualified doctor done... I guarantee most would not meet the threshold-diagnostic criteria. Maybe a few.
      But its not for me or for others to diagnose - no matter how justified and right we feel about our experiences. Ones experience is always different from the other person.

      So many things can just mimic other things in an individual.

      Delete
    4. My comment was supposed to be under Anonymous 2:53. I accidentally posted under wrong thread.

      Delete
    5. abc is correct.

      Similar discussion

      And my favourite line ever from the old TV series, Police Rescue: "it's not for me to determine the relative worth of two human lives"

      Delete
    6. No wait it's for Anonymous 6:17. I did it right ...it's supposed to be here. God it's so hot outside can't think properly. ;)

      Delete
    7. Thanks for sharing, Superchick. I'll read your posts again soon.

      Delete
    8. Superchick your husband sounds like a real man: has good emotional control, doesn't cry often but isn't afraid when he has too. He also knows his priorities: it's not sociopathic to care about your loved ones far more than anyone else...that's human and normal. Even if he's completely indifferent to others so long as that doesn't translate to abuse he's not sociopathic.

      I can see someone get run over and literally not feel anything for them. That doesn't mean I won't care or do something about it. Sociopaths as defined by psychologists are not just lacking in empathy; they use a false display of empathy to deceive others. There's an intention behind the act. That's what makes one socio, psycho, etc.

      If a "socio" doesn't meet the definition, you don't change the definition. You tell the person they're not a sociopath. Real psychos use this confusion to further confuse people.

      Delete
    9. Superchick, this is very interesting how you and your husband reset each other. You help each other fit better into society. You are successful together. And you strengthen the bond between each other by exposing difficult truths. It sounds like you can say pretty much whatever to each other and it will register positively at some level. Perhaps sometimes given a bit of time.

      It really helps seeing life from a different perspective. Nts often use their emotional brain to guide them. People with big egos are certainly being controlled by their emotions.

      And having a sociopath around to kick you into thinking more rationally isn't bad...

      I have been a bit upset lately and acting against my own advantage as a result.

      My sociofriend told me just today: you are being controlled by your primitive brain. And sure enough he has a point.

      Delete
    10. Actually he said primitive mind. I realize primitive brain refers to the reptilian brain, where the survival instincts reside along with primal fear and anger. The mamellian Brain is where the more sophisticated emotions are held. Nevertheless, his point was that I was letting my emotions override thinking.

      Delete
    11. "Actually he said primitive mind. I realize primitive brain refers to the reptilian brain, where the survival instincts reside along with primal fear and anger. The mamellian Brain is where the more sophisticated emotions are held. Nevertheless, his point was that I was letting my emotions override thinking."

      Important distinction, thanks for clarifying.

      **-* gave me some interesting insights about my own emotional behaviour the other night. He did have somewhat of an agenda but the clarity interested me; and it was in line with my own awareness - just much clearer and from a different viewpoint.

      Delete
    12. Superchick,

      For us: We are not diagnosed. But we swim within the traits. Like a fish swimming under water .... But not jumping above it and meeting threshold.

      Well said. You swim like a pro, navigate the currents in your life and on this blog in a most candid and incisive manner. I enjoy your posts.

      Mr. Hyde

      Delete
    13. I'm sure you aren't as hard to spot as you think you are, I'm sure that someone somewhere remembered a peculiar encounter that they had with you, despite what people here say (remember that psychopaths have an inflated sense of self-worth), nobody has a 100% success rate of keeping their mask on. Basically what is most ideal is some kind of tag and release system like what yous ee in sharks, maybe find some way to identify the socios, and then allow them to go free unless they commit a crime, but keep them on a watchlist.

      Delete
    14. Fuck you. We'll outwit or evade your attempts to pigeonhole and label us, every single time. XD

      Delete
    15. This is why I like A.

      Why say a thousand words when one paragraph says it all.

      Delete
    16. Swop-

      Exactly.

      That's why I love her, too.

      She is succinct.

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    17. Hey guys thanks much for the responses. I always get something meaningful out each one of you. Good conversing and much reflection. Just did a night shift ... Going back to bed. Lol

      Delete
    18. A gives it to us "quick and dirty", and WE LOVE IT!!!

      You have to wait your turn though, Swop.

      Superchick is 1st. I'm 2nd. Your 3rd.

      A-did you know, that you have a harem???

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    19. Swop-

      That should have read "you're 3rd".

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    20. A, succinct? I beg to differ.

      But she is a bully and that is why most people cater to her. She leads by fear. A regular dictator.

      And yes I choose to remain anonymous. Why is that?

      Delete
    21. Because you're a tit? Scared? Ooo ooo...above it all?
      Fuck off.
      In fact, I like A because I'd say she's pretty much the only actual sociopath on here, and isn't just out to intellectually out do everyone and philosophise all day.
      She's here for the same reason I am...you lot are amusing to us

      Hey Vegas. I've taken my place in the queue!

      Delete
    22. Swop-

      I agree with you.:)

      Now, you know why I begged A to come back and post more, when she went on hiatus.

      I put songs out there, to break up the philosophy sessions.

      I'm glad you've taken your place in the queue.:)

      I like to read the sexual tension, between you and A.:)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    23. Swop-

      PS-There are other sociopaths who post on the blog, but you won't see them here all of the time. You will see occasional posts, and I like to engage with them when I see them, and then it'll be awhile before I see them again. If I have a question for one of them, I call out to them.:)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    24. Swop-

      PSS-A understands me, and "knows where I'm at". I'm glad she is around and posting.:)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    25. M.E.-

      I know "you get me", too!!!

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    26. Superchick-

      You "get me", too!!!

      I have been enjoying your posts, and apologize, that I haven't been able to respond to all of them.:(

      I liked it when you said to me "my love", and gave me the Kelly Clarkson song-thank you.:)

      I hope you are recovering well.:) The other day, when I was out and about some guy got in my face, and asked me for money. I declined him and went to walk in another direction, and he totally shoved me hard in the back, and I got thrown into a nearby van. I've never had that happen before, and needless to say, my back and shoulder are sore.:( I'll survive, though...

      I've been thinking for some time that I need to take some classes/get some weapons, so I can "kick some ass", if anything like that happens to me.

      Superchick & A-from your descriptions, I know that you could TOTALLY KICK MY ASS!!! You, too, Swop.:)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    27. M.E.-

      Yes, you've already "got my number".:)

      A does, too.:)

      ~Vegas

      Delete
    28. Ooo.. ooo

      Swop is whipped.

      Delete
    29. Why? Because he sees through you, titmouse?

      If you think I'm a dictator because I talk shit on a blog, you need to revisit the history of western civilization. XD

      I lead the way I think is best in any given set of circumstances, and I am generally very successful.

      Why is that?

      Delete
  11. A scorpiopath observed a sociopath. The sociopath got drunk, told everybody he´d soon sober up & comb his hair. The next day he repeated the routine, and then again and again. Suddenly the scorpiopath stood up and asked:"-So this is the super-creature, the human great white..?"

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  12. "if everyday sociopaths stay hidden forever? Will people never learn to show empathy to them?"
    I think you are asking will they ever show sympathy or compassion that a very different thing. The thing about empathy is it can not always distinguish between real and mimicked emotions. But I doubt I need to tell you lot about that- Empathy is the strings for the puppeteer

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  13. Sociopaths can be identified through brain scans, which are getting better and better, and with technological breakthrough, I suppose someday they will be a lot cheaper than they are now, plus if psychopathy/sociopathy is hereditary, then maybe there is a way that can be detected through genetic testing, and you can always use social media to crowdsource information about the possible identities of sociopaths or even tracking IP addreses, since as Lincoln said, you can not fool all of the people all of the time. As in the future, sociopaths will actually be easier to spot (though some will nontheless slip thorugh the cracks) in our society of constant surveillance, not harder, though as people here said, they may have their uses, maybe as cannon fodder that normies would not have to fell bad about tossing into the front of the machine gun nest?

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    Replies
    1. How can a brain scan detect a sociopath? Empathy deficiency is only one of many traits of a sociopath. Most importantly of all, a brain scan will not show the person's deepest intentions. This is folly and real psychos will have a field day with this sort of a bran scanner. It sounds like eugenics.

      Delete
    2. http://www.livescience.com/49613-psychopaths-brains-punishment.html

      I am not sure how you can fake a brain scan? And as I said before maybe sociopathy/psychopaths carry certain genetic markers (if psyhcopathy/sociopathy is heritable) that can be picked up by genetic testing, which is getting better and better, and what is so bad with eugenics anyway?

      Delete
    3. Fascist, eh?

      Delete
    4. Maybe the Nazis just gave eugenics a bad name? Wouldn't raising IQ scores through eugenics just like the Ashkenazi Jews have done be a good thing generally?

      Delete
    5. Raising emotional intelligence is what ultimately benefits all people. Less selfishness and more adherence to truth...you don't need a high IQ for that, just high morals.

      Delete
    6. We successfully evolve based on diversity within the species - that's the advantage of sexual reproduction. How could you predict what characteristics might or might not be useful in future environments?

      Delete
    7. Humanity is one species and our ability to empathize, love, think objectively & rationally, and put together a list of universal do-not-dos like "don't murder, steal, rape, lie, cheat, deceive etc."

      It doesn't take much beyond common sense & and a little honesty to realize that without solidarity and empathy our survival & flourishing is bound to be short-lived. It's not intelligence nor wisdom to use big words, "sophisticated" language to put out meaningless and absurd notions. Reality is not that complicated - some of us make it out be that way because we're the ones who are confused.

      Delete
    8. Our ability to...ensures our survival and flourishing.*

      Delete
    9. "Humanity is one species and our ability to empathize, love, think objectively & rationally, and put together a list of universal do-not-dos like "don't murder, steal, rape, lie, cheat, deceive etc."
      Contributes to... but please indicate the significant differences with other animal populations - beyond the fact that we conceptualise and communicate abstract concepts.

      Which words confused you?

      Delete
    10. I wasn't referring to myself. By the grace of God I'm no longer confused on the big questions.

      Delete
  14. I can actually see eugenics being beneficial in terms of raising IQ or encouraging pro-social behavior.

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    Replies
    1. Anon, you are so off base that I'm afraid I must call you an asshole. Eugenics is, like genocide, stupid, barbaric and revolting. Those who commit it are dooming themselves and so much more.

      Please grow a brain.

      Mr. Hyde

      Delete
    2. Why are you showing such emotion, I thought the people on this board are Karla Homolka clones, as for eugenics, I do not see how encouraging high IQ children through financial incentives, or encouraging people who exhibit empathy or pro-social behavior to breed more is a bad thing, do you want a future like the movie Idiocracy?

      Delete
    3. Are going to argue that Curtiss Lemay, Arthur Bomber Harris, Ike, Admiral King, and Karl Doenitz are high functioning psychopaths? After all they made tough decisions as well that resulted in a lot of the enemy getting killed.

      Delete
    4. Discord at one level is harmony at the next.

      These sorts of human policy discussions are interesting and have their place in the dance that is the human species.

      Delete
    5. My argument is that you do not need psychopaths to make the tough decisions, since even NTs are capable of making them themselves, or are you going to argue that all great and above average generals or military officers are closet psychopaths?

      Delete
    6. Oh, I agree wholeheartedly with that.

      That doesn't mean we have grounds for extermination, however.

      Delete
    7. The biggest myth is that psychos can make tough decisions or do a good job at high positions. They can GET to high places quicker than an equally intelligent non-psycho but they certainly will not do anything remotely close to a good job, or last long. I have years of business experience with narcs & psychos to know that they're the worst people to work with. Their facade doesn't work much in an environment which forces even empaths to be purely logical most of the time. Try using your charm with an empath you owe invoices to. They'll believe you a couple of times (that's good business) then they'll discard you for good for being a scam.

      I'm "soft" in my personal life, would rather be hurt than hurt someone else, would rather take a loss than deliberately cause it etc. In business I'm the opposite because it's not about me only, it's the company and I have to prioritize it's interests above all others. Everyone knows the rules so you're not being "selfish" - you're just doing business. Don't believe the BS psychos spew out to make themselves feel better.

      Delete
    8. You misunderstand the nature of psychopathy. As you so aptly demonstrated when you were convinced for months that I was your sociopathic ex-abuser, you mangle the clinical definition of the term, and redefine it so as to suit your own personal biases and religiously motivated criteria.

      Delete
    9. I'm "soft" in my personal life, would rather be hurt than hurt someone else, would rather take a loss than deliberately cause it etc. In business I'm the opposite because it's not about me only, it's the company and I have to prioritize it's interests above all others. Everyone knows the rules so you're not being "selfish" - you're just doing business."

      Oh. So because "everyone knows the rules", selfish, ruthlessly ambitious behaviour within the context of a business transaction is somehow justified?

      Sounds suspiciously like sociopathic compartmentalization, reframed as a bunch of BS empaths spew out to make themselves feel better. :P

      Delete
    10. A

      What is the nature of psychopathy? I've seen you say many times that people don't understand psychopathy but never give an explanation of what it really is (as opposed to what it's not). Please don't spare any details.

      Delete
    11. I've said many times that psychopathy is not akin to demonic possession, or synonymous with evil. It is, rather, a complex defense mechanism that arises due to genetic, epigenetic, and environmental factors in predisposed individuals, which is pathological only when said traits are cranked up to the max- which is why someone with clinical psychopathy has to score above a certain threshold in order to be considered "disordered". It is, however, a spectrum, and individuals who score highly on it are better at some things than others. (We’d probably make better firefighters than grief counselors, for instance . :P)

      The PCL-R is a good reference. I included them below, along with how I might score:

      1-superficial charm (2)
      2-grandiose (exaggeratedly high) estimation of self (2)
      3- chronic need for stimulation (2)
      4- pathological lying (1)
      5- manipulativeness (2)
      6-shallow affect (fleeting, superficial emotional responses) (2)
      7- lack of remorse or guilt (2)
      8-callousness and lack of empathy (1)
      9- parasitic lifestyle (0)
      10- poor behavioural controls (1)
      11- sexual promiscuity (2) (before I was married I was highly promiscuous)
      12- early behavior problems (2)
      13- lack of realistic long-term goals (1)
      14- impulsivity (2)
      15- irresponsibility (1)
      16- failure to accept responsibility for own actions (1)
      17- many short-term marital relationships (0)
      18- juvenile delinquency (1)
      19- revocation of conditional release (0)
      20- criminal versatility (0 - only small things like smoking pot)

      So according to this checklist, I would probably score about 25 (give or take 2 or 3 points; I'm not a shrink)- which makes me an individual with psychopathic traits, as opposed to a full-blown case.

      Other traits which are not measured by the PCL-R include fearlessness, social dominance and a predisposition to substance abuse, and a capacity to easily detect weakness in others, all of which I possess. (The substance abuse is mild in my case and includes smoking a fair amount of marijuana)

      My lack of fear was such that I was literally a real danger to myself as a child. My mother sought to channel it by encouraging me to do extreme sports, so that she wouldn't come home to my corpse littering the driveway, because I thought it might be fun to swing upside down above the asphalt. (True story). I also lack a proper startle reflex, which I only discovered was associated with psychopathy years later.

      Nowhere does that checklist state that psychopath are evil minions, jinns, serial killers, abusive monsters or emotionless robots, amongst other myths that have been propagated on this blog by butthurt victims, religious fanatics and uptight wannabes.

      There. I “spared no details”. I hope that helps

      Delete
    12. "Nowhere does that checklist state that psychopath are evil minions, jinns, serial killers, abusive monsters or emotionless robots, amongst other myths that have been propagated on this blog by butthurt victims, religious fanatics and uptight wannabes. "

      Here's a question: How many people here are genuinely curious as to why people might characterise sociopaths as such?

      Because I'm not seeing it. Not with ME and only rarely with the socios who post here. It seems a convenience, a shortcut, a justification of superiority to make those kinds of statements I've quoted above.

      I said once to Kat that the real achievement is in encompassing the nemesis' perspective in one's own world view and it's curiosity that drives this process. The purpose of pain is protective response; and in the case of encountering a psychopath, a fuck-load of adaptation is required. Simply because we were blind-sided by something outside our vision.

      Once we encompass enough information to have a predictive basis, the curiosity and pain diminish equally, and there is more space for experience.

      On this basis, I can engage far more safely and effectively with the world - including with **-*. No matter his intent, I engage on my terms, and for however long that works. He's not some superhuman who can injure me; he's delicious in his own ways and I appreciate that. A, you especially have given me tons of insight, and primarily about how I might better look after myself. You may not be aware.

      I know this process was triggered by necessity in me, and you are not likely facing those pressures yourselves. But really, without making that endeavour to understand why sociopaths are perceived in particular ways, - and this is in answer to ME's question - how can you expect that neurotypicals to treat you gently or with empathy?

      There are reasons things happen the way they do. Take responsibility for tracing those reasons or you really sound just as limited in vision as the people calling you monsters.

      Delete
    13. *how can you expect neurotypicals to treat you gently or with empathy?

      Delete
    14. Isn't this interesting. A "defense mechanism" which turns you into a virus, sucking on innocent people's goodwill. And a "neurotypical" who couldn't agree more. I've lived thru years of depression and solitude without ever even contemplating such selfishness and destructive behavior. If I was dealt a bad hand (I thought then) why on Earth would that justify screwing over others? And how on Earth would that be "defensive"?

      Having negative traits is not condemns you. Justifying them and accepting them as okay is what separates a real psycho from others who have sociopathic traits. We all have good & bad in us but only the basest of us puff up and pretend to be perfect, and go on spewing utter nonsense. And you know why you do it...you can mock the religious but in the end the Truth will win out. The last laugh will be against the psychos and their minions.

      Just as a practical matter: if there is no God, than viruses ought to be killed whenever and wherever they're found. The best deterrent against such "defense mechanisms" in that case would be as the anonymous said: round them up and rid society of them. The psycho betrays God first and foremost for His mercy. Sounds quite like the devils they deny publicly. No worries - one day we'll all know.

      Delete
    15. I lived thru years of depression, solitude AND I have sociopathic genes in the family. There's every environmental & genetic factor there. Worse I was screwed by some of the people I loved the most, at the SAME TIME. I didn't become "defensive" so please tell us what troubled you so much that you had to resort to such defenses? Now I might have gone...but God saved me. He literally saved me. So you can keep fooling others (and yourself) but unless you can erase my memory altogether I know Who to trust and who not to.

      Delete
    16. ""neurotypical" who couldn't agree more"

      Try reading my comment again. Really.

      That said, I do agree the trait constellation must be adaptive or they'd not be selected.

      Listening to anyone's voice provides us with more understanding of the human condition. We deal with things according to our differing capacities.

      People aren't wrong just because you are different to them. This is seemingly very difficult for you to accept.

      Delete
    17. No people aren't wrong because they're different from me but they are wrong when they abandon common sense & reason and constantly put out outright BS in a seemingly manipulative way and then claim to be neurotypical. I'm not "neurotypical" but if I were I'd be offended.

      Delete
    18. Again, Jonaid, the only basis for your position is that I have a different worldview to you. There is nothing duplicitous in my comments.

      Why do you struggle with this?

      Delete
    19. Everyone on this blog has a different world view from me but I'm only referring to you here. Comments like this last one from you prove my point.

      Delete
    20. How? I don't think you even read my comment earlier. I was challenging A, not agreeing with her.

      Please be specific and make a rational case or stop spouting nonsense. I'm happy to have a civilised discussion with you Jonaid but it always boils down to you saying I'm manipulative with zero case to back it up other than our different worldview.

      This is the pattern from the time you first engaged here. I was the first person to engage you and explore your ideas with you and it was evident even on that first post that you couldn't accommodate a different viewpoint without become aggressive and insulting.

      Delete
    21. It was around mid Nov last year when I started posting on this blog. Show me where I became aggressive & insulting and you've proven your point. It can't get any easier for you...everything is already written & recorded.

      Let me guess...you can't be bothered?

      Delete
    22. Every single post. But you didn't answer my question.

      Leave it Jonaid. As I've said before and say again, it's merely a different worldview. You never substantiate your complaints against me so I do not regard you with any sort of respect. You don't deserve any further time.

      Delete
    23. Every single post? Yet we haven't a single quote or citation from you. It's okay I'm not surprised...after all you did just lie and prove my point again.

      Ciao.

      Delete
    24. A said: "Nowhere does that checklist state that psychopath are evil minions, jinns, serial killers, abusive monsters or emotionless robots, amongst other myths that have been propagated on this blog by butthurt victims, religious fanatics and uptight wannabes."

      North said: "How many people here are genuinely curious as to why people might characterize sociopaths as such?

      Because I'm not seeing it. Not with ME and only rarely with the socios who post here. It seems a convenience, a shortcut, a justification of superiority to make those kinds of statements I've quoted above.


      I’ve been here awhile. Between the blog, and the forum that used to be linked to this site, we’ve had a number of characters propagating such myths.

      We've had several variants of Jonaid, who literally think that we're evil and/or demonic, and who refuse to modify their views even when presented with sound, unassailable logic. We've had countless butthurt anonymice whine about what monsters we are- advocating that we should be bred out of the gene pool, or round up and shot. We’ve had psycho-groupies who think we’re some kind of rock stars (Thank-you. Thank-you very much.) We’ve had snowflakes like Special K who think they're Real Psychopaths(TM) because they fancy themselves "emotionless" and robotic. We've had Alpha Betas, Manly Men and One True Sociopaths, all of whom consider any divergence from their preferred socio-scripts to be evidence of psycho-wannabe syndrome. We've had astrologers and numerologists who know much better than neurologists and psychiatrists. And we’ve had pretend serial killer try-hards, and badasses galore. (Imo, they make the juiciest of targets :D)

      That list is by no means exhaustive. I have a well-honed bullshit detector on the subject, because it amuses me to challenge these misconceptions. As such, I am attuned to them.

      You tend to wax philosophical and converse with like-minded individuals on this blog. I orient myself in a different way, because my objective here is not the same as yours.

      Delete
    25. North asked: “how can we expect neurotypicals to treat us gently or with empathy without making an endeavour to understand why sociopaths are perceived in particular ways?”

      My response is that I don't expect, nor particularly desire, that empaths should treat me with “gentleness and empathy.” That is not how I interface with the world. I actually prefer a more direct, confrontational communication style that does not eschew challenges, likely because I have been surrounded by antisocial people throughout my life, and “speak their language” fluently.

      If I like you, chances are I’ll tear you new asshole, and knit you a pair of mittens. ;)

      My "calibration" is off. I may think a comment is “mildly challenging”- but it will sometimes leave the other person reeling- and often, I’ll surmise this as being on account of their being a pussy. After all, if I can absorb such barbs and not be impacted by them, why shouldn’t others?

      (Because they did not grow up in a dysfunctional environment characterized by harshness, dominated by a person who honed in on their weaknesses like a heat-seeking missile, and used them to tear them down, be it subtly or aggressively. That’s why. :P)

      My natural language is callous, and I have an inordinately hard time putting myself in someone else’s shoes.

      There are reasons things happen the way they do. Take responsibility for tracing those reasons or you really sound just as limited in vision as the people calling you monsters.

      Good point. If I trace those reasons, I concur that sociopaths can be abusive and hurtful in ways specific to their nature. I have been these things in various ways, with various people, at various points of my life. But it never occurred to me to take personal responsibility for the public perception of sociopathy being what it is, as I am not open about this aspect of my nature. Nevertheless, when I behave in such a manner, I reinforce a stereotype I deride.

      I suppose this is another way in which I attempt to squirm out of taking full responsibility for my actions.

      They’re weak... they’re wrong… they’re stupid… they’re thin-skinned…. and I’m “better” (which in my native tongue, translates as “stronger”, “bolder”, “tougher” and “smarter”. Yeah?

      Nah.

      Thanks for the salient reminder, my dear.

      But I’m still going to stick it to ‘em 8 times out of 10… Because it’s just so much fun. ;)

      Delete
    26. Speaking of which…

      She’s right, Jihadi.

      I think it would be much more useful to pull up *your* rantings from the past few months, all of which clearly showcase your efforts to demonize people when they disagree with you, to the point of manifesting outright delusions, rooted in a persecution complex.

      “Can’t be bothered”, you say?

      And yet, unlike you, North’s response to being challenged is not to run away like a bitch, with her tail tucked between your legs.

      Reality according to Jonaidsword:

      “Me good, you bad. Ciao! Gotta go!”

      You cannot handle even the slightest challenge to your worldview without making it all about your personal crusade against the "minions" who abused you.

      Your skin is not only thin- it is raw and bleeding.

      Yet you still unconsciously perpetuate the cycle of victimhood, as you cling to an abusive psychopath who duped you, and countless other hapless followers.

      This isn’t about your devotion to God the sincerity of which I do not doubt for one moment. It is about a pervasive pattern of deceit that you need to perceive and break, because it has a toxic hold on you.

      Delete
    27. "Because they did not grow up in a dysfunctional environment characterized by harshness, dominated by a person who honed in on their weaknesses like a heat-seeking missile, and used them to tear them down, be it subtly or aggressively. That’s why. :P)"

      If you were abused growing up - and yes this is abuse - it does not give you any right (logically of morally) to become a bully yourself. It is understandable but it's not right. You may think you're being defensive but in doing so you'll inevitably hurt the wrong people and be used by the people you think are on your side (without knowing it). You are vindicating those who took away what you were owed and becoming aggressive against those who took away nothing from you (and probably actually gave you something).

      Imagine how brilliant you could be if your intelligence was spared the BS that comes with narcissism and sociopathy: the masks, covering up, the hyper alertness, the addictions etc. You've succumbed to the abuse if you remain this way.

      I don't make subtle attacks. I never called anyone who has history such as yours demonic. If you choose to interpret my clear distinctions as me calling you a demon than I have to assume one of the following: 1) you're lying about your past and are offended precisely because you fit the description I put forth, 2) you do have the history but have crossed the limit and willingly become what you've become, 3) you haven't much of a clue what I really say.

      I'm not looking to fight and engage in frivolous back & forths with you. I really think you can turn around and be brilliant, genuinely so, so I commented. You don't need to shout back trying to win points with these cheerleaders you have on this website. They don't give a damn about you and you should be insulted everytime you get these cheap praises.

      Delete
    28. Look at you, giving me three whole options of what I can and cannot be. :D

      How magnanimous of you to tell me how I should feel!~

      Who are you to say that I do not use my talents and "brilliance" wisely? What do you actually know about me?

      A defense mechanism serves a self-protective purpose, Jonaid. It counters the effects of abuse, so that a person does not succumb to it.

      And you certainly *did* call me a demon, on numerous occasions. Shall I dredge up specific quotes, or are you prepared to acknowledge it without dancing a justification jig?

      Of course, you also spent months referring to me as your socipathic ex abuser "Philip"- so it isn't as though your track record is reliable. :P

      I am not aggressive towards everyone, Jihadi. But I have been confrontational with you. I told you why. You can swallow your pride and accept it, or choke on it. The choice is yours.

      Delete
    29. Thanks for your response, A.

      Incidentally...
      "My "calibration" is off. I may think a comment is “mildly challenging”- but it will sometimes leave the other person reeling- and often, I’ll surmise this as being on account of their being a pussy. After all, if I can absorb such barbs and not be impacted by them, why shouldn’t others?

      (Because they did not grow up in a dysfunctional environment characterized by harshness, dominated by a person who honed in on their weaknesses like a heat-seeking missile, and used them to tear them down, be it subtly or aggressively. That’s why. :P)"


      I relate to this. I took an aggressive style for granted, and was surprised to see men especially cower. I'm recalibrating now, though, by observing effective styles that others use. I tend to aggressive behaviour now only when I feel threatened, but even that is not ideal. Still, I am learning to fill my kit bag with a variety of tools and am developing greater awareness of how to deploy them.


      But it never occurred to me to take personal responsibility for the public perception of sociopathy being what it is

      Honestly, it wouldn't occur to me either.

      I'm really only challenging along the lines of personal effectiveness. By accepting the validity of another's experience, we learn more effective ways of interacting with them.

      There is no reason to invalidate another person's experience of the world, really! We don't have their history, their genetics or their environment from which their personal experience emerges.

      What we do have is the opportunity to see patterns.

      And the ability to ask why.

      The ability to update our own understandings so that we can make better predictions (a key theme in The Gift of Fear, btw) and thus navigate more effectively.

      Of course, if you're content with how you're currently navigating, there's minimal incentive to update your predictive models.

      I suppose my curiosity is largely satisfied and I've communicated my results - just another human impulse to transfer learning. But in terms of the reverse angle, there's little learning I can transfer because there's no appetite.

      To continue is to become a fanatic. I solved my puzzle, I'm not gonna shove the resulting picture down your throats any longer.

      Delete
    30. Terrible mixed metaphor to end there

      Delete
    31. "This isn’t about your devotion to God the sincerity of which I do not doubt for one moment. It is about a pervasive pattern of deceit that you need to perceive and break, because it has a toxic hold on you."

      Talk about projection. You're so conceited & blind it's almost scary. You have no clue what true devotion to God is, certainly not in the context of Islam & the Quran, if you think it can leave one under a "toxic hold" of cynicism & socio-hunting. The whole purpose of my trusting in God is to remove that burden as much as possible from myself.

      I don't have access to people's hearts & minds. If I were to judge people by their behavior all the time, I'd have to be "defensive" like you and assume ill-intention most of the time, blowing any mistake or lie way out of proportion. Worse, I could be like you eventually: assuming ill-intention by default, especially when I'm clueless and don't understand what the other person really says or if they're more knowledgeable about something from me.

      The Qur'an uniquely addresses the phenomenon of psychopathy, again and again, warning them to repent & simultaneously telling believers to be forgiving & trusting in God. No harm or benefit can come to anyone - psycho or not - except by God's will. Ultimately everything is under God's plan - the schemers & plotters are themselves stuck in God's plan - so believers should NOT be cynics, panicky, hyper-vigilant (except when necessary in obvious situations).

      I'd tell you to read it sincerely but you'll just throw back some insults. You've already mastered a 1400 year old world tradition, of course, without any understanding of, or background in, tradional Islam.

      Your inability to engage in rational, CIVIL and honest discourse is proof that you are incapable of any trust and resort to "defensive" tactics because you yourself are untrustworthy & a fraud. It also shows you're an empty mind, addicted to your lower passions, and full of yourself.

      You should stop trying so desperately to get my attention. It's pathetic & even your cheerleaders probably see thru it, even as they cheer you on.

      Delete
    32. Oh, but I have sincerely read the Quran and Hadith, very carefully.

      I was sincerely put off by all of the contradictions, hate speech, and nonsense it contains.

      I am sincerely appalled at how you can make excuses for a middle-aged pedophilic rape apologist, and his frequent commands to dismember and decapitate people.

      But perhaps most of all, I am sincerely sorry that you should waste all your devotion on a false god, set up to promote the agendas of a warlord, because you have scales on your eyes.

      Believe it or not, Joanie, it is possible for someone to be sincerely deceived.

      Just as you were sincerely deceived by your psychopathic abuser, and continue to be deceived by a charlatan masquerading as a "prophet".

      THAT is the toxic pattern I was referring to- and everyone sees through it- except you.

      Delete
    33. I told you before the "sincerely deceived" are not condemned. Arrogant two-faces who try to mislead others are the ones who will beg for a second chance when their time is up.

      I wouldn't be surprised if you actually believe the garbage you spew about Islam. A mind in the gutter only sees deception everywhere. Like I said, the arrogant schemers are themselves part of God's scheme.

      Have fun while you can. Your time will come and you won't see it coming. We'll see how boastful and "defensive" you are then.

      Ciao.

      Delete
    34. vwdewwevJune 21, 2016 at 11:12 PM

      "Why are you showing such emotion . . ."

      Because eugenics assumes that people know better than nature, millions of years of biologic evolution. When it comes to the selection of genes, we know very little about it. Especially the complexities of how the environment can trigger gene expression in multiple ways. Until we know how gene expression works, I believe it's best to let nature take its course. Nature has thus far allowed us and myriad species of life to thrive on a very small planet, twirling in an isolated segment of the Milky Way. Separated to other inhabitable planets by light years. Earth is a blue and white puffball comprised of H20,oxygen, mixed with a bit of carbon and stardust. Earth is in a tiny corner of an immense universe.

      I tend to respect those kind of odds -- life is precious. Rare. Rarer still if you measure 'sentient' life as having a functional orbital cortex.

      Anyway, I digress.

      "I thought the people on this board are Karla Homolka clones"

      Get real. Karla isn't that bright. If she was, Paul Bernardo would not have been able to manipulate her in the way he did.

      " . . . as for eugenics, I do not see how encouraging high IQ children through financial incentives, or encouraging people who exhibit empathy or pro-social behavior to breed more is a bad thing, do you want a future like the movie Idiocracy?"

      Encouraging high IQ is one thing. I'm all for it.

      Tinkering with human genes is, however, at this point and in terms of raising IQs, stupid. We already know that smart people don't always breed smart kids and dumb parents don't always produce dumb kids, though it's true that that is true most of the time.

      But not always.

      Nature, like god, likes to play dice.

      Hence, you cannot assume to know whether or a not a Rain Man may come along and calculate the formula for saving mankind. Etc.

      How might Rain Man's genes contribute to something in the future? A saving grace that at present we can't imagine?

      I don't believe we're smarter than millions of years of evolution. It got us this far. I'll continue to place my bets with Pan/Gaia and her ilk.

      Mr. Hyde

      Delete
  15. Psychopaths can feel empathy if they choose. Check this link out.

    http://www.livescience.com/38421-psychopaths-feel-empathy-when-they-try.html

    ReplyDelete
  16. M.E.'s quote: "If they didn't have any previous experience with that strain of rat, they would not help. Or according to the Washington Post: "The creatures aren’t born with an innate motivation to help rats of their own kind, but instead those with whom they are socially familiar."

    I have not experienced this -- quite the opposite. But then I am not a rat. Most members of my family were not psychologically/mentally/emotionally familiar. They were damaged in ways I could not, as a child understand. Alien beings living in their own bubble, as I was living in mine. I therefore reached out to peers and strangers who appeared to hold similar values, no matter their race, sex, etc. Bonding with these folk felt natural. Unlike many members of my family.

    Please indulge me a moment.

    I enjoy utilizing the tarot to pick up general vibes about internal and external circumstances.

    The card, the Devil, reads thus:

    "From Pan's name we derive the word 'panic,' because he amused himself by giving the lonely traveler sudden frights. He was despised by other gods, but they exploited his powers. Apollo the sun-god wheedled the art of prophecy from him, and Hermes copied a pipe which he let fall, claimed it as his own invention, and sold it to Apollo. thus the brilliant sun-god received both his music and his prophecy illicitly from the goatish, ugly and untamed god of nature."

    . . . it is more difficult to perceive nobility in Pan. yet in myth he was not evil, merely untamed, amoral and natural."

    "The Fool must learn to confront with humility the basest and most shameful aspects of himself . . . all that is shadowy . . . .

    There are many shadows we all face, consciously, or only in our dreams or Freudian slips. The Fool in the tarot is on a journey to become whole. The whole world, the Wurm Ouroboros, the egg produced of yin and yan, hermaphrodite fertility. Everyman, The Fool, must confront his or her animal instincts. His/her natural strengths and weaknesses, abilities and liabilities.

    The base of all instincts is the will to survive. Any human with a whit of brains, any species, faced with extinction will do anything to win at all costs.

    In any case, the card of the devil amused me and came to mind reading M.E.'s post.

    Have a merry night one and all.

    Mr. Hyde




    "

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Untamed. Yes, that's exactly the word, encapsulating the wildness, the otherness, the possibility.

      Delete
    2. I feel that I am the one that is truly untamed. I refuse to bow down to them.To swallow their bullshit. I would rather die.

      Delete
    3. It's not a competition. When you understand that, you are free.

      Delete
    4. North I agree it's not a competition. I'm speaking more about my mind and my spirit.

      Delete
    5. Not only did they try to clip my wings they tried to convince me they needed to be clipped.

      Delete
    6. Oh, I'm sorry for misreading. That's uplifting, like reaching/creating one's own potential, in one's own style? how do you experience it?

      I feel like a child, just learning how to live for the first time.

      Delete
    7. Fly free. I had a very strong image of a soaring bird when reading your first post. I've just seen your post about their trying to clip your wings.

      I recall VN writing about building castles around her targets so they can see only her. The castle feels real, but it's a hologram. Our wings our always ours to command.

      (I'm writing this as a reminder to myself)

      Delete
    8. I think you said before that nothing was wrong with you before. That is how I feel now. Everything happened how it should have. I experienced it as I should. I could have never imagined that anyone would lie about such things and that is who I am and I can be no other way. I feel that I understand others now for the first time in my life. And that understanding has made me see myself clearer.

      Delete
    9. :)

      In a way, being clearer is also being lighter. There's less burden of confusion.

      Delete
    10. It is. Knowing both who and what you are is freeing. That is one of the strange things that they said to me. It really stuck out.

      Delete
  17. Apparently there really is a psychopathy gene, just like there is a warrior gene, so that it could be detected theoretically be bred out of the population if necessary.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's true that my kind are impulsive, emotionally superficial, as well as prone to dishonesty and abuse. We are callous, anti-authoritarian, and we tend to manifest an utter disregard for social rules and conventions that do not suit us. We are opportunistic, strategic thinkers, who prize rationality above emotionality.

      But we are also witty, decisive, articulate, manipulative and fearless. We have an uncanny ability to uncover people's hidden motivations and weaknesses. We are strong, socially dominant risk-takers who perform well under pressure... natural born leaders.

      Psychopathic men easily secure the admiration of affection-starved women crippled by daddy issues and insecurity- a psychological cancer that has reached epidemic proportions in a culture bereft of strong male role models and father figures.

      Face it. Genetically, we are, in some respects, *superior* to neurotypicals. We are your doctors, surgeons, lawyers, fire-fighters, police officers, EMTs and CEOs. We can be found in the ranks of your unions, organizations, and corporations - and most especially - within your board rooms.

      We are reproductively successful for a reason. Many of us are hypersexual, and incredible in bed. We'll "steal" your jobs and seduce your women.

      The world needs high-functioning, subclinical psychopaths. Good fucking luck breeding us out of the gene pool. :)

      Delete
    2. Genetic tracking and forced sterilization ftw?

      Delete
    3. Lol.

      Proficient hacking and expert evasion ftw.

      Delete
    4. "Apparently there really is a psychopathy gene,"

      At present the genetics of psychopathy traits is in its infancy, and not helped by an amorphous and contentious set of clinical 'definitions' as to what those traits encompass. There are at least nine candidate genes being studied at present. TaqIA and BSNP, DRD2, SLC6A3, CNRI, 5-HTTLPR, OXTR, FAAH, COMT, and the so-called 'warrior gene', MAO-A [MAO-A having been found present in higher numbers in Chinese, Maori and African-American populations compared to Caucasian].
      As the constellation of traits is widely regarded as being additive, that is, the more specific alleles of particular genes an individual inherits, the more 'psychopathic' an individual may be as an adult, dependent on gene expression due to epistasis and individual environmental factors, as shown by various twin studies over the last ten years or so years. However, because it is appreciated that the sheer numbers of genes involved will eventually run to hundreds, in a huge number of combinations obviously, the idea of screening for those traits can only be regarded as fanciful, as, furthermore, there is no surety that anyone with those traits will become a PCL-R style psychopath at all. They can just as likely become a James Fallon or Andy McNab.
      It depends almost entirely on external environmental factors post-second trimester, then birth and early childhood.

      Well, I'm extremely glad to have got that off my chest.

      Delete
    5. "But we are also witty, decisive, articulate, manipulative and fearless. We have an uncanny ability to uncover people's hidden motivations and weaknesses. We are strong, socially dominant risk-takers who perform well under pressure... natural born leaders."

      Rather this is what you tell yourself to feel better and superior. It's natural to comfort oneself by looking at the positives in oneself. If you have shortcomings than you likely also have gifts that others don't have. However, narcissists love to live in a fantasy world where they're everything divine, no matter how screwed up they are in reality. It seems you don't even your own mind from self-manipulation.

      Delete
    6. How does having a realistic, well-rounded view of my strengths AND weaknesses make me a narcissist living in a fantasy world? Did you even read the first part of my paragraph, where I enumerated the character flaws associated with a personality type like mine? (Callousness, a disregard for social norms, opportunism, and a manipulative nature?) And those are just characteristics related to having a somewhat psychopathic personality type. I have other, unrelated flaws, too- such as a tendency to micromanage people a bit too much.

      That you should feel compelled to label them as "divine" leads me to deduce that you must be jealous of those traits in particular, anonymouse- which causes me to suspect that you probably manifest their polar opposite.

      Where are you weak? How do you lack agency, influence or power?

      Delete
  18. I mean do we really as a society need to keep keep around those who score 30 and above, or 28 and above? I mean even if we got rid of those people you still have a lot of people in the 15-20 and above range that have some sociopathic traits but are not formally sociopaths and have skills that are useful to have around, as Andy Mcnab said, and are easier to manage to full socios/psychos. I really doubt whether a full spychopath would be a good fit in the military, as even those people in the ASPD forum of Psychforums admit.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. His mate Kevin Dutton said Andy McNab scored 30. And it was also stated that he wasn't the only one in the regiment by any means. And the point was made by Andy McNab that the reason why they were so effective in the SAS was that the men were expected to manage themselves. Any one caught fighting or drunk and disorderly was sent back to their old regiments, no exception.
      BTW there is no such thing as a formal sociopath or an informal one.
      You are unclear as to measures eg. the purpose of the PCL-R.

      Delete
  19. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2933872/

    ReplyDelete
  20. Thank you for taking the time to provide us with your valuable information.

    SEO Company in Chennai

    ReplyDelete
  21. http://www.nicabm.com/resistance-to-ptsd-could-it-be-in-your-dna/

    Some individuals seems to be more resistant to PTSD, but from this article it does not seem to be related to exhibition of symptoms of psychopathy (as for Alexander, he seems to be an NPD rather than a sociopath), for example iof anyone remembers Band of Brothers, Dick Winters seems to have come out of the war in a lot better frame of mind than his 2nd in command.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Great article.

      I have long thought that psychopathy is a complex defense mechanism that arises from the interplay of environmental, genetic, and epigenetic factors in predisposed individuals. It is interesting to note how similar factors are at play with regard to how certain individuals are more sensitive to trauma than others.

      Delete
    2. Primary psychopathy is an adaptive feature that protects individuals against anxiety, depression and risk of suicide. It also appears to increase the effectiveness of one's immune system. And offer protection against PTSD.
      There are too many research papers to quote. Many are available online in full, rather than just as abstracts.

      Delete
    3. What A said. Yes.

      Delete
  22. Has anyone done a study, like what proportion of rank and file soldiers and officers in the US military as psychopaths, and contrast this with battlefield performance reports?

    ReplyDelete
  23. So what are those people who score something like 20 or low 20s on the psychopathy checklist, what are they exactly?

    ReplyDelete
  24. As an aside why can't you edit your comments here? What is going on? has anyone here been diagnosed to be in the upper 30s or the low 40s?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The scale only goes up to 40.
      The measure is specifically designed for forensic populations only. For various reasons, it would be unlikely they could or would post here.

      Delete
  25. Replies
    1. "James Fallon"
      Are you? 'Cause if so, perhaps some factual genetics info wouldn't go amiss.
      Chance'd be a fine thing though.

      Delete
    2. No, I'm not : ) He's apparently in the 20s, that's all I meant. He amuses me by listing 'libertarian' as one of the things about him that 'isn't very psychopathic'.

      Delete
    3. Ahh, understood. Indeed. 8-)

      Delete
  26. Most of us do a glorious job at our own mind fucking and proceed to blame it on the pp's. It isn't right. It isn't fair. There was no parking anywhere.

    ReplyDelete
  27. How do you link things blue on this site?

    ReplyDelete

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