Lol, I was reading my copy of the sociopath next door and I decided to show my aunt the book and explain to her that her ex might have been a sociopath, I love being a guru to victims, she looked at the cover and said that my eyes were exactly like the ones on the cover, after reading the book she said that everything in it fits me to a tee, from bleeding her dry to assaulting one of her best friends.
awooga awooga AOOOOOOOOOOGA!!
just read a paper by Newman, one of TNP and ME's favourite researchers into psychopathy.Newman examined how quickly psychopathic and non-psychopathic individuals respond to a series of mislabeled images, such as a drawing of a pig with the word "dog" superimposed on it. Researchers flashed each image and then timed how long it took for subjects to name what they saw.Over and over again, Newman found that non-psychopathic subjects subconsciously stumbled on the misleading labels and took longer to name the images. But psychopathic subjects... answered more quickly. Newman says the result is one instance of how psychopathic individuals have difficulty processing peripheral cues, even when those cues are entirely obvious to everyone else.Errrm anyone else think this conclusion is a bit bogus? concluding that someone who is better at an assigned task has a deficiency seems to be pretty bad science.
You are into some pretty boring shit. Go watch a porno.
ResCogitans, this is old news M.E. posted a video of Newman explaining his attention theory before it's herehttp://www.sociopathworld.com/2010/08/psychopaths-feel-emotions.htmlThe point is that psychopaths have a deficiency in processing peripheral information.Saying something has an deficiency doesn't necessarily mean they have an inadequacy, deficiency can also be used to describe a lack of something.
Res, I have a pretty glaring peripheral focus deficiency. Do you not?It's not along the lines of, if you have X, you are Y. It's, if you are Y, you have X.100% of all diagnosed psychopaths apparently have this according to Newman last I checked, and most NT folks do not.It's one of our peculiarities, not a voigt-kampff test.
The more I start to fix up my own issues the more I'm starting to think that the negative aspects of psychopathy are treatable. For example I rarely ever want to be a manipulative person, even if I can do it without guilt people catch on to you and start avoiding you, it destroys relationships. My manipulation is ussually the result of projective-identification, I often believe what I want is what others want. Strange, the less I project, the less delusion occupied I become, the less psychopathic I seem.
Willem H.J. Martens claims that some of the negative actions can be curved with bolstering impulse control through psychotherapy, pharmaceuticals used to balance chemical levels in which we're deficient with.Norman was diagnosed as a psychopath, according to Hare's Psychopathy Checklist (Hare et al., 1990).Norman showed little improvement over the course of seven years of behavioral psychotherapy and became less and less motivated. The staff of the forensic psychiatric hospital considered him untreatable and intended to stop all treatment attempts. Norman's lawyer arranged for an examination by a forensic neurologist, who subsequently found that Norman suffered from severe cortical underarousal, 5-HT and MAO abnormalities, and concentration problems....More experimental psychopharmacological, neurofeedback and combined psychotherapeutic research is needed to prevent and treat psychopathic behavior. (Martens)It's not a cure. It doesn't change who you are. It just makes it so you're less likely to go/get sent back to prison.You can't change our minds, basically, but you can change our behavior with a chemical leash.
i'm confused.peripheral focus is usually tested with a stroop test.i took that one and my time difference was 3.4speople with ADHD are most likely >>10s different.newman says psychopathic people have a short difference.i thought ADHD was often comorbid with psychopathy or at least related? no?does the 3.4s difference qualify me?~anyway what is the real world manifestation of this?and TNP, i could definitely have predicted you would spell it voigt - was tempted myself ;)
The H is so bothersome.Real world manifestation also relates to the other part of his study, with words and colors, namely, focus, or, dropping focus.My memory is at the mercy of my focus. I actually have pretty good memory so long as that focus doesn't drop. I can remember a new phone number, credit card, whatever, after only seeing it once so long as I don't get distracted.BUT, the moment something catches my eye, it's as if what I was retaining not only is lost, but in my mind, wasn't there to begin with.A really simple example that happens to me on a daily basis. I'm outside having a smoke break. I realize I need to go back soon, and go to check my phone to see what time it is. When I check my phone, I see I have a text. After looking at the text, I put my phone back, never checking the time. It's only when I see other people leaving that I realize I forgot to do something in the first place.
I know it's a basic example that happens to a lot of people, the difference being, it happens to me every single time (forgetting to check the time)
and actually you CAN change your mind - TNP did you read the article i linked to on haven's blog? can't be arsed finding it now.basically the cartesian duality idea of a mind that is treated with psychotherapy and a brain that is treated with chemicals is a useful model up to a point, but the brain's plasticity means that neurophysiology changes can be effected by psychotherapy. NMR scans over the course of BPD treatment have proved this. it takes a while, but CBT is probably the way to go for any socio who wants to change. it's like the dog whisperer says: change the behaviour and you change the attitude :p
yea actually now i tink about it, i do ave problems like tat - i ave my fingers in many pots at work, and if i stop one ting to do someting quickly that's igher priority i will usually forget to go back to the original ting. i abs must carry a notebook around and remind myself of everyting...:p
I missing some humor here... likely I'd forget about the notebook too :PInteresting stuff, about changing the mind.I don't give a toss about having empathy, or changing my personality style. More self-control is pretty much the only benefit I see.
The H is so bothersome...i missed one though.right gonna go read a book n hit the sack early. get-to-sleep-late insomnia has turned into wake-early-and-not-get-back-to-sleep insomnia and i woke at ridiculous o'clock this morning...
I was wondering, do the rest of you notice things, like when you meet someone do you automatically cold read them, without really realising you do it?
Really? If that's so they're very poor at it.
How do you cold read?Whats the first thing you look for?I'm not a good judge of charactor. It takes me along time with most.
Always look for what they're hiding.
I'm not aware that I hide anything.If I know them I can tell but not a stranger. I just like their demenor or I don't and I don't find that accurate.
I raelize what you're saying TNP. I think I missed what he was hiding because I was busy hiding too. Only I was hiding for different reasons. I wanted to be perfect with him so I was trying to hide my flaws. I see that now.
Of course you aren't aware. You've got too much on your mind, and it becomes natural for you.It's hard to explain, but, basically, I take everything someone says with a grain of salt, and try to find out what they avoid or try to hide, or get away from. There's a myriad of ways to gauge someone, part of what a friend of mine coined impression intelligence.It's not about me figuring you out, so much as me figuring you out to make my own mold for you, or, to fuck with you. Or both, heh.People sometimes ask me what impression I get from others, especially in the context of a possible friendship, business deal, or relationship. I'm usually right.
Now I'm envious, I wouldn't use it like you do but would rather use it to decide whether I would get to know them or not.As a manager where I work I find it's different when someone wants to be hired and then my detection skills kick in. There I find that I have more intuition as to their character. I haven't found myself to be wrong in those instances.But in my personal life your absolutly right that I have too many things on my mind.
All the S/P seem to keep their lives less clutered am I wrong.
Details. Not just things like that way they talk or the way they hold themselves, things like clothes, wedding rings, whether they style their hair, tan lines, there's quite a lot of little clues that can help you. And they're things the people themselves don't notice or think about. Maybe it's because socios are so used to deliberately presenting themselves a certain way (or just me). For example, I'm unemployed and delinquent but I always wear a suit. It's astonishing, act like someone important who deserves respect and people will give it to you. I imagine most NTs just present themselves as themselves and not a created persona though I could be wrong.That was rambling... I'm sure there was meant to be an answer or point in there somewhere.. I must be drunk. :)
Oh and I kind of just meant the shallow/factual details of someone not really the intricacies of their personality. Oh, also do any of you guys get stressed?
Nothing wrong with being drunk, I'm well on my way LOL.I understand what your saying about the things that make a visual statement, so do you actually look for a certain type? Or more what is your pupose lets say someone intruduces you to a freind and you notice that they were probly the prom Queen at their High School do you instantly want to take them down a few pegs?
Whats your favorite type?
ntp and res in the root:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew2o0DnXpCI&feature=rec-LGOUT-real_rn-4r-32-HM
Brandon van Ingen, a patient at a mental hospital in Ermelo. Since 2007, van Ingen has spent part of his days tethered to a wall due to the danger he poses to others:http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europe/01/22/netherlands.documentary/index.html?hpt=C1
Hmm. No, my point was more that it's something I almost automatically do with everyone I meet I wondered if anyone else here does too. Not necessarily, it would probably depend on how obnoxious they were. I'm pretty arrogant. If I decided that they had a misplaced sense of self worth (which I'm sure I do too, but it's mine and I'm keeping it :)) Then being able to pick up on things like that comes in really handy. Not to mention most peoples insecurities become glaringly obvious after a few minutes of conversation, I love people with insecurities, all it takes is a few words and they won't stop thinking about it for days.
Yea a type at least in my mind,So your saying everyone comes under your scrutiny or accessment for how they can be of use to you in some way.
So their insecuities arew very appealing?
I'd like to blame the spelling on drinking but..... it's the lighting.
Peoples' insecurities are in the things they talk about the most.
Actually, no, interesting, I never thought about that. No, it's more like everyone is scrutinised, assessed and listed, and then later if I see something useful or interesting in the description of them I've compiled then I'll use it. That makes it sound neat and orderly, really it's haphazard and only takes about 10 seconds. Why what do you think when you meet someone?As for type.. Anyone with an insecurity, especially the arrogant or someone who should know better. It only occurred to me the other day how easy it is to wreck someones life, for me it's just a bit of messing around and i forget about it after a couple of weeks, I didn't actually realise how long other people are affected for. Damn. That makes me seem stupid. Ha.
Their insecurities (and weaknesses) are obvious. And what makes people so easy to break or seduce in the first place. (Either I'm getting more drunk or these word verifications are getting harder...)
Not stupid, you just don't realize how temporary it is for you and there is nothing lasting in it.They are eveyrthing to other's in their life not just a toy or puppet, I just don't understand if their nothing to you why mess with them.Does it it really last or give you something that futhers your life. Their not like you, you know that. I f you are all you need and their is no one that can make it anymore spectacular, then why?Honest, I'm not critising, I really appreciate you answering me. Just fasinated.
That really is the simplest question to answer:Because I get bored.
OH YoU POOR BABY, Thats the sadist thing I;ve ever heard I just want to hold you, but you would probly bite me.
Ok now I'm confused.
I am officially drunk.
Yeah. And confusing. Sarcasm over the internet, I can never tell.
'this is know' what is it exactly that you know?
How to spell the words 'know', 'i' and 'this'. Obviously.
I know who you are and I saw what you did.
Hows that drink working for you? Pretty good it seems
Depends, Medusa. A lot of people don't, unless they know you well enough to feel comfortable gushing on you. Since I'm pegged as a good listener and not judgmental, people are usually very comfortable around me. But, the question was about an initial cold read, not day-to-day interactions and relationships.I look for wedding rings, jewelry pieces, phones, teeth/hygiene, shoes/clothes, hair style (or lack thereof) tone of voice, eye and above all else, the face. You can usually tell when what they're wearing doesn't match who they are.
lol, phones? So what does an old, shit phone tell you, besides possible low finances?'You can usually tell when what they're wearing doesn't match who they are.' What does that tell you?Btw, i responded to your comment over on the other site Note. I was in a dismal mood, i think it shows. :D
It's not about what they have, notme, but how it matches the rest of their get up. It's not about judging them as poor or rich.Yes, I saw it.
i don't understand what you mean and hoped you would clarify. Someone is seen as insecure if what they are wearing doesn't match their personality? I really need you to explain how this works. Surely what they are wearing IS their personality.
and why ignore what i wrote over there? If you didn't agree you could just say 'I don't agree' and leave it at that.
You're taking this way too personally. I can only track so many sites at one time. I saw what you said before, and replied, not your latest reply.Ok, example with a phone. You meet someone, you talk, they dress/act like a bum, and complain about their money problems. Yet, they pull out a shiny new iPhone 4 to reply to a text and pull out an Amex Black to pay for their meal at the local Micky Ds.I work with someone just like that.I have no problem explaining things if they need explaining, but I'm not going to be subjected to finger pointing before you even know what you're talking about or care to ask.
'You meet someone, you talk, they dress/act like a bum, and complain about their money problems. Yet, they pull out a shiny new iPhone 4 to reply to a text and pull out an Amex Black to pay for their meal at the local Micky Ds.'oh ok. So what does that tell you?I wasn't taking it personally, I just thought it was an important issue to address and the fact you didn't respond made me assume you thought what I had said was nonsense. You could at least say, that it's nonsense. There's nothing wrong with disagreeing.And when was i finger pointing? I wasn't. Just asking questions. But I'll stop if you prefer.
You told me I was ignoring you, when I wasn't. That's called finger pointing. And even after explaining it, you seemed to have completely missed the point, which spells out that your focus is off. I couldn't respond in any way if I didn't even go back to it yet.Do I have to spell out what it means? It seems sort of obvious.
The ones that bother me are the ones who talk about working on transformers 3 and pull out a flip phone older than the Razor. In the club I've heard every possible delusional story and occupation. If someone told me they were broke, and had a black card I would call him wise. Its never a good idea to let people know how well you are doing. If you do you just might end up facedown with empty pockets.
Agreed to that. Tall tales are funny, but sometimes tragic. Those that can't tell the difference between the truth and the lies just might try and take advantage of something that isn't there, and then they find out it was a bluff, you're in for a world of shit.
It's not obvious to me since i don't understand these things Notable.What a surprise. Everyone here has me down as naive anyway, so you know that. What put me off is that they were talking about insecurity and you seemed to change the topic without explaining. God. I don't care if i look a fool if someone can at least explain things to me. But don't worry about it. And with the other thing I simply misunderstood which comment you were talking about.
I don't think you give yourself enough credit for your actual capabilities versus your perceived capabilities.Given the scenario, what would you think about that person that I mentioned?
i presume you want me to say that they stole the phone and the card.
No. I want you to say what you think they did, not what you think I want you to say.
Ok, honestly, that would be one thing I would think. But i'd also consider other possibilities, which is where you'd probably say I was naive. I might say, the phone was a present. Or, that the guy is way more into getting the latest gadgets than dressing well for whatever reasons. (dunno what those reasons would be or if i'm totally wrong on that).But, these would just be first impressions. I'm someone who considers lots of possibilities, it doesn't mean i stop being suspicious. I dunno. Do I sound totally dumb now?
Here's what I've surmised. He's not self-sufficient, and he's griping about it. He does however have access to a lot of funds, and pretty much whatever he wants, if he asks for it. Probably rich parents or something.He's not so much complaining about his lack of money, as his lack of independence.
oh i see. that too. oops. Yes, makes sense. I feel like an idiot. cheers.
You are fooling yourself if you think that sociopaths have no insecurities.
Notable thinks he's robocop, try that cold read on me, see were you end up.
Omg, Robocop! The original chrome dome! :D
I don't remember saying sociopaths have no insecurities. But still, name one?
It depends, serial killers, bullies and dictators are plagued with insecurities, and most are sociopaths/psychopaths.
Speaking of reading images. We had a drawing session last night. Everybody tried to draw each other. The amateurs were making rather serious attempts with tentative stokes to capture 'realism'. A friend who is a professional, sketched me with only a few strokes. I think nobody else got that it was me. It was an cartoon of a person with eyes obscured by spirals in the glasses holding a guitar and a surfboard but who couldn't help a serious expression with a diagram of the golden proportion plugged into the head. Something about using the attachment of specific 'predominant' things and thoughts to capture the 'intrinsic' of a fleeting, barely tangible composite is a pretty accurate description of how I see/feel about myself at this time.
It's more than a missing conscience, look at Richard kuklinski, he was clearly disturbed, his dad probably molested him, bullies can project a mightier than thou attitude, but some people can see right through it.Profile of a sociopath - Other Related Qualities: 1. Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them
Immigrants are like sperm, millions get in but only one works.
The Kuklinski Plan,..actually seems pretty functional during the time frame when the circumstances 'nurtured' the likes of him. He was nowhere near 'mad' but he got caught because of change or 'transitions in between' that was beyond his capacity.Look in earnest,..even the thing that is wild and unstable will at some point have a moment of stability no matter how fleeting.
Oh well I'm not really any of those things. I wonder if I have one.
One of the things that really interests me is how to most a sociopath would seem insane but to one everyone else looks a little mad (I'm not talking serial killers, just the common or garden steal your money jump out a plane and mess with your head variety). But which ones right? You'd probably say NTs, but then just because its the majority doesn't mean it's better.
Sociopaths being plagued with insecurities is a ignorant statement. You have a lot to learn. You must have believed the teacher when they told you that other kids make fun of you because they are insecure. The other kids make fun of you because they enjoy laughing at your pain. That's humanity at its purest form.Dictators were not projected into power by insecurity. People follow confidence. To bring down the existing power of a country and install yourself as its absolute ruler is not something you will find easy being 'plagued' with insecurities.Serial killers are powerless sociopaths desperate to excercise their dominance in a world that has violated their entitlement to power. Sociopaths start feeling entitled to power early. Abusing a child with a predisposition to sociopathy is like taking a match to a can of gasoline. Sociopaths will excersice power. It is inevitable. It is in their nature. The way abused sociopaths learn to excercise power is violence. Its important to understand that using serial killers and dictators as an example of how sociopaths function is sensational and ludicurous. These type of people are rare. Extremely rare. While sociopaths are one in one hundred people, a dictator is one in a million. How many people here met a sociopath? How many met several? How many personally met a dictator of a country? How many personally met a serial killer?
Well put. Mostly.
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