Wednesday, January 12, 2011

Killer in the family

The families of shooters often claim that they had no idea. I wonder how much of that is true. What is certain is that having a killer in the family is often the worst thing that will ever happen to them:
The family of 22-year-old Jared Loughner reportedly returned home from a grocery shopping trip on Saturday to unthinkable news: Their son had allegedly shot Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) and 19 others, killing six.

The family has remained silent since the shooting, barricaded from the press in their Tucson, Ariz., home. Psychologists say the parents must be experiencing devastating grief and perhaps guilt over the son's actions. But there is no roadmap for the Loughners' experience, and only a few parents have stood in their shoes.
***
Families such as the Loughners often choose to avoid the public view. The families of Columbine shooters Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold kept almost completely silent for years. It wasn't until 2004 — five years after the tragedy — that the Klebolds spoke to the media in any depth. They told New York Times columnist David Brooks that they had no inkling of their son's intentions. Nor did they have time to grieve for their child, said Dylan's mother, Susan Klebold. (Both Harris and Klebold committed suicide after killing 13 and wounding two dozen more in their high school.) In 2009, Susan Klebold, Dylan's mom, wrote an article in O Magazine describing herself as "insane with sorrow" for months after the shooting.

"It was impossible to believe that someone I had raised could cause so much suffering," Klebold wrote. As she blamed herself for not seeing that her son needed help, the public blamed her and her husband for raising a "monster," she recalled.
***
After the 2007 massacre of 32 people at Virginia Tech, Sun-Kyung Cho, the sister of shooter Seung-Hui Cho, released a statement apologizing for the devastation caused by her brother.

"We never could have envisioned that he was capable of so much violence," Cho wrote. "He has made the world weep. We are living a nightmare."

209 comments:

  1. I think it's entirely true that the relatives didn't see it coming. At least from their perspective.

    Living with someone who has more or less instability raises a lot of the awareness on the relatives and friends, but tremendous tragedies like these are rarely outcomes thought possible.

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  2. ok yes, in some cases the families should have been more aware, or they were aware that their child was an overall weirdo, nutjob. etc, but were embarrased to tell anybody about it such as a professional of some sorts, but even with that, it is outrageous to blame the parents for their child's actions. except in cases where parents have no business giving thier child a hand gun, i don't see how the parents should be at fault. this man was a full grown adult.

    i mean really, they need to start profiling White Men. white men are the most dangerous, evil species throughout civilization, meanwhile black americans and now muslims are the scapegoats for all things bad. lets talk about that

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  3. I put the blame entirely on the family. In fact, they should be doing jail time for letting a dangerous person roam the streets. Ignorance within the family is the #1 cause of killers.

    They knew it coming, they just didn't act on their instincts.

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  4. "Full grown adult". You must be a child even if only in your mind. Of course he should be tried as an adult, but most people behave like children up until their 30's or 3rd divorce. Insanity would be the primary cause for your thinking on that, if it's not then you can clarify for us what your brain's malfunction is exactly.

    Agreed on the "bad whitey" theory, but asians are just as bad so now you're just as much of a piece of shit as racist white people. Enjoy :)

    As far as the family's responsibility, it varies. Not all families are the same, not all children are the same, and certainly the most obvious truth would be that not all killers are the same. I for one wouldn't be stupid enough to kill a 9 year old girl. Elders can be judged and that's fine if that's your craft, but that 9 year old's potential was stolen from the world.

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  5. Blame America's declining education level for this type of ignorance. If everyone read DSM-IV for their high school curriculum, then the parents should be held liable for being negligent and start being more responsible for their children's behavior. Too many people rely on the government for their irresponsibility.

    The parents should be charged with conspiracy for not getting their son mental help or locking him up.

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  6. In many countries, parents do jail time for their children's crimes.

    On the other hand, parents often don't know better. Are you guilty for your ignorance, or is ignorance, by definition, an atoning trait?

    It's a challenging subjectivity, methinks.

    Besides, while adults are traditionaly fully blamable - on the principle that they acquired responsibility for their lives -, they were also deeply influenced by their home environment. We could even argue on the indirect influence of the neighbohood, and also society as a whole.

    I'm not standing by neither extreme. In fact, I think I'll stay in the middle ground.

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  7. society fails to absorb unhappyJanuary 12, 2011 at 6:29 AM

    Somehow teachers are left out from the descriptions above. Have you seen his math teacher on camera? He looks just as asocial as this murderer. Murderers are made through steady isolation. In the first class where he was clearly showing signs of abnormality both the teacher and the students could demand explanations from the kid in a caring way. To let him talk and feel (figuratively) still connected. Instead everyone goes numb and simply prays that the kid leaves the class (heard the email where a classmate was worried that the kid would be back with a machine gun, which happened to be some years later). Anyway, early detection at school is completely possible for loner kids. The trouble is teachers see them only as annoying nuisance and other kids are not mature to want to take care and include the weirdo kids. Happy should try to take in the unhappy, but as UKan put above clearly we advice staying away from negative/hurtful/problematic. And then are surprised when we are shot indiscriminately.

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  8. I do believe that someone in a families like this have to have a clue. Granted, they may not know that their son (it’s almost always a man) was about to go on a rampage, but someone intuited that something wasn’t quite right about him. Often times close relationships are bound together by mutually assured denial. Looking the other way and ignoring one's intuition are two of the unspoken but iron clad rules in such relationships.

    Having said that, intuition isn’t enough to lock someone up. Without proof, there is nothing they could have done anyway. Legally, that is.

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  9. society long name @6:29 – welcome to reality. Here “good people” ignore those that don’t fall within their circle jerk of family and friends. They hope that the strange loners they meet throughout their lives don’t snap and one day shoot them. Most of the time, their hopes will be granted. For the unlucky few whose loners do snap… well them the breaks. Death is always a heartbeat away from any of us anyway.

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  10. a chronically depressed yet still functioning at high intelligence levels (think Abraham Lincoln) friend of mine has not responded to an email and a voice mail for over a month. a part of me wants to assume she was a socio and is dropping me off because she has no more use for me (which is fine with me, I never had and possibly won't have any use for her anyway--saying all this to relate to your way of thinking, I'm also learning like Mila, I'm actually feeling a loss and a level of responsibility) yet a part of me is concerned and wandering to reach a common acquaintance to check what's up, which is sort of violation of privacy. what should i do?

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  11. Wall of text coming M.E., I do find this subject fascinating...

    Perhaps another reason for the Klebold and Harris's silence was that they had more than 30 lawsuits filed against them by the victim's families (irrationally but understandably) claiming they had responsibility to prevent the slayings. The stigma, guilt, grief, and eternally haunting question 'why' must be horrendous. Have you read We Need to Talk About Kevin? It's written from the perspective of a young shooter's mama, and while it's obviously fictional, I found it interesting.

    Loughner's behaviour didn't fly under the radar of teachers and other authorities which isn't typical of young shooters – however that was before there were so many of them and threat assessment was employed in schools to try to identify students before they started shooting (cue: witch hunts). But it does *sound* like his parents may have been in denial about his psychosocial difficulties, due to his trouble with authority, and colluded not to act on them in the hope that they would go away. Should they be liable for his actions as his parents? Absolutely not! But people will always feel safer that the same thing won't happen to them if there's someone to blame.

    What parent *wouldn't* deny any concerns, suspicions, or beliefs they had that their child was going to kill? Unless he looked up from his dinner and said, "mum, I'm thinking of offing a few people tomorrow" I think any parent would (want to) 'believe' they didn't have 'reasonable grounds' for their fears. Even then, plenty of mama bears will 'see no evil, hear no evil and speak no evil' to avoid the prospect of losing their child to jail. To say, "I had no idea my child would do that" after the event is also a classic reaction to grief: I wonder if many members of young shooter's families *ever* stop cycling beyond the shock, denial, bargaining and anger stages?

    In this particular case, I find it curious that Loughner acted alone and believe he may have colluded with another person. I wonder if Loughner was a poor fit within his family - young shooters often are which exasperates their feelings of not fitting in with their community. They're also usually targets of bullying like he was and would kill themselves if it weren’t for their narcissism and the discovery of an accomplice who views their world similarly.

    They tend to be a year or two older than the 'weaker' shooter (who tends to have psychosocial problems that exasperate their feelings of alienation) and they manipulate the 'weaker' shooter so that they can experience murder vicariously. More often than not the pair of them are drawn to anything that will give them an identity with overtones of power (e.g. nihilism) and indulge in magical fantasies about how they will escape long before they start shooting. Loughner, too, wanted to "make it out alive." They also typically tend to submerge themselves in documenting their thoughts about what they’re planning in public media.

    If the 'stronger' shooter doesn’t end up going through with it, and never intended to, they back out when it's too late for the 'weaker' shooter to do so or watch the mayhem from a safe distance, as they planned all along. This is what I believe *may* have happened here.

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  12. But I think his parents are nuts too. One of the neighbors said the father is a very angry man. So now what?

    People will try to blame everything under the sun. But the fact is that he is sick. The professors at the college he attended knew something was up and according to the news they expressed concern about him to their superiors. But nothing was done. These people need help and it needs to be taken seriously. If the school is where some of these signs appear then something needs to be set up for these people at the schools. They need the power to bring these people out and into treatment. The signs were there that he was malfunctioning but nothing was done. It’s very sad. How about the mug shot of him..he looks so satisfied.

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  13. "-"Full grown adult". You must be a child even if only in your mind. Of course he should be tried as an adult, but most people behave like children up until their 30's or 3rd divorce. Insanity would be the primary cause for your thinking on that, if it's not then you can clarify for us what your brain's malfunction is exactly.

    Agreed on the "bad whitey" theory, but asians are just as bad so now you're just as much of a piece of shit as racist white people. Enjoy :)-"

    you know what? i'm going to pretend that what you just typed made a lick of sense, for my sanity and all. i can't go loosing my mind over dumb posts.

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  14. his family was living on the money (possibly sole income) they collected from his elementary school where he had fallen and got hurt. what does that tell you about the parents? they are crying for what they will now have to face, not necessarily out of sadness of what happened to their child or the victims. parents almost always have a lot to do what children become. only when an adult over 40 does major shit parents are off in my book because by then 40 something should have found a way to do away with parents' garbage. do you all have a good hold on whether your mom and dad are socios, empaths, etc. I suggest you do. That's how you'll better understand yourself. How much and when they talk behind each other's back and how much and when they team up in dealing with their children, meaning you?

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  15. Losing your mind? I'll assume your subconscious didn't miss the lesson involved, at least. What a thin layer of security...

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  16. you should ignore your friend. if someone doesn't answer your calls or texts or emails, ignore them. it's o.k. to try once,twice, even three times, even repeatedly but one of life's big lessons is that them ignoring you is your que to ignore them back and move on with life. and quite frankly some people play games. if i care enough, i reach out once and once only, but then they end up wondering why i'm not sweating them or why i'm not calling them. funny, isn't it.

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  17. yes, ignoring, what i've been doing, thank you. i just am worried maybe she is dead or locked up in a mental institution and i don't know about it. i guess bad news would find its way to me had it been the case.

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  18. "Losing your mind? I'll assume your subconscious didn't miss the lesson involved, at least. What a thin layer of security..."

    so not only are you dumb. you have bad memory, didn't you imply i was insane? reading comprehension is your friend.

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  19. well it's good that at least you cared so guilt won't plague you as intensly as it would if you did not try to reach out, if in fact something bad were to happen to her. don't worry about it. if she wasn't ok, you would have heard about it by now.

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  20. Grace, are you suggesting a mandatory reporting requirement for young people believed (read: perceived) to be at risk of delinquency by particular occupations? Wouldn’t this do more harm than good to young people as a whole?

    I agree that *any* young person experiencing psychosocial difficulties needs help but the reality is that there will always be young people who fall through the cracks *especially* when they’re not heard, listened to, valued and acknowledged due to a lack of resources and/or *fear*.

    When young shooters *are* identified before their spree people typically stick their head in the sand hoping the child will leave without a tragedy. They don’t know how to deal with it. Was Loughner pushed out of education by the faculty too?

    No, what he didn’t wasn’t right, and he clearly needed help to gain control over his life because he was socially and systematically disempowered. Bullying, early school leaving, substance abuse, and adjustment difficulties don’t happen in a vacuum but lead to one.

    What can be done to try to prevent such tragedies? Gun control would be a start! Training teachers and others who are in close, regular contact with young people to assess, address, and *deal with* the threat of violence could also help. Anti-bullying education/intervention programs based on *the facts* could be mandatory and parents could be educated to start taking schoolyard bullying *seriously*. Children are hostages to debilitating abuse at school. Then there’s the matter of making support systems easier for *everyone* to access in terms of removing financial barriers and the stigma, plus empowering young people who are experiencing psychosocial problems to reach out for help when they don't have the familial support to do it for them.

    I believe it's a tragedy that this happened for the victims of every kind, and for Loughner who was failed on so many levels, and will lose his life at such a young age.

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  21. in small towns people are cared for. the problems start when it is easy to become 'unknown.' we may need formal teaming of individuals when the society gets mobile and when subtle yet powerful social/cultural controls are easy to avoid. i'm in the US, living in a large condo. the police (black) came over for neighborhood training and to my surprise defined only our building as neighborhood (mostly white) and excluded the people in the next building (mostly black) and encouraged us to call on these people (loud parties at times, but families and children at the party). and guess who aggressively calls the police in our building to complain about the folks in the next one? black ladies who live in our building. it beats me that there was no effort to define the entire street as neighborhood. we don't even know who lives in our building, let alone next building.

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  22. ^^^^
    it's called self hating blacks. the police officer gets his marching orders from his boss. and the blacks in your building have the mindset that if whites don't cosign on it then it's not good or right. it's the world we live in. nine times out of ten, black people go about their business, you can be in stadium full of blacks and you're the only white person there, but the blacks there won't even blink an eye let alone care or give a damn. sad that i can't say the same if it was the other way around.

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  23. here is what our murderer of the week wrote (snakes looking for lonely mice, sharks are free, dodo is finally dying):


    Dead as a dodo

    On the island of Mauritius a heavy storm is leaving.
    In the fields of the ancient wild forest a wild field of mushrooms is growing.
    Snails and grasshoppers are ready for the warmth.
    The old grass growing with lizards are jolting for crickets while snakes looking for lonely mice.
    Falcons are flying for pray.
    Shallow light Blue Ocean shimmering at each wave as the black clouds are rolling.
    Waves are lapping.
    Fisherman on the reefs are casting their poles.
    In warm water a pack of clown fish are floating.
    Tiger sharks are swimming free.
    Steel drums beating in the distance.
    The full moon slowly setting for the sun is rising.
    At the local cemetery there is weeping.
    The dodo is finally dieing.

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  24. I don't the answer to this issue, Sea Witch. All I know is that if so many people were concerned about this man, why was nothing done to help him? There were enough red flags with him. And it wasn't just one student or one teacher that was concerned about him. If there were a student in my class that acted inappropriately, and I don't mean silly behavior I mean someone who made me uncomfortable and scared, I would take steps to bring it to the dean’s attention. Forget the chair of the department…to the dean. I would follow up too. I don't think I would confront the student though. If I felt this way about a student chances are other students feel the same. People have to stand up and say something and follow up. I guess at this point it's our responsibility to take action.

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  25. Also, I think this man is a paranoid schizophrenic.

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  26. Reading comprehension:

    Today is Wednesday, which means it is my day and civic responsibility to inform any and all who do not belong on this blog that they do not belong on this blog.

    You should be thankful or grateful if you can manage, I'm polite compared to Daniel :)

    I do hope you comprehend the lesson now. Think about it.

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  27. OK, so you know those Facebook statuses that say, "If you and I end up in jail together, what would you say to me using only FOUR words?" Most folks put something like "That was such fun!" or maybe "That was YOUR fault."

    This person of my acquaintance answered "Are they dead yet? (we went on a multi-stop killing spree)".

    I truly believe this person is a psychopath (informal PCL-R of maybe 26 or higher), and suspect the person could/will be dangerous. The person has displayed a joy of sadism and pathological lying and manipulation in the recent past. Any obligation to alert the authorities?

    This was posted yesterday, and was directed at this person's exes, who are making things difficult in child custody/support situations.

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  28. RE: My Anon post above at 9:36 am, I forgot to mention that I have personally seen this person torture an animal with delight, and personally heard this person say that the only way to feel secure regarding the exes is if they were dead.

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  29. you can inform people all day but if you don't have the power to kick people off the blog then your words are meaningless...as usual...: )

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  30. "I have personally seen this person torture an animal with delight"

    Lol. So what the fuck were you doing? If you didn't have the guts to stand up to him then, you certainly wont have the guts to go to the police, and even if you did, it wouldn't make any difference.

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  31. We're all a crazy bunch. For just as many psychos that get caught or put away I'll bet there are 2 more out there not particularly doing much harm (as in not killing people).

    So I'd say its impossible to report everyone who might become a killer. We need prevention in school and parenting, not witch hunts (those never work).

    Frankly parents should be tested before they have the right to breed. School teachers need more money and a much higher standard. Both parents and teachers need to have some background in psychology.

    PS How the heck did he get 20 people with a single pistol? Did they all just stand there? Or was he one hell of a shot?

    On gun control: people seem to be failing to mention that the guy the brought him down was carrying a gun and chose *not* to use it. Gun control wouldn't stop the seriously suicidal crazies like this dude. You can always make explosives in the comfort of your own home. There's no way to ban them. Taking away guns just means there'll be even less people out there to stop nutjobs like him.

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  32. I did stand up to them. I took away the remote and took the shock collar off the puppy. What makes you think I didn't?

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  33. "I took away the remote and took the shock collar off the puppy."

    Funny.

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  34. "How the heck did he get 20 people with a single pistol?"

    The virginia tech guy got more than 30 people with just two pistols.

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  35. Anon 9:31, why would you even bother saying that? Maybe you don't belong on here:P

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  36. This is what happens when you give an angry nerd a gun for christmas.

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  37. I don't need power, as I said I'm operating within Wednesday's parameters. Power has nothing to do with it, however you're MORE than welcome to come back tomorrow and whore for my attention and I'll be MORE than happy to give it because I will not be obligated at that time.

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  38. all cause it's wednesday, huh? you need a hug...








    or medication.

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  39. I'm tired of these angry virgins shooting the fuck out of people, if one of those took a gun out in front of me I would take their gun and stick it up their ass, then I'd put the gun up their ass to.

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  40. I was under the understanding that an old lady took the guy down.

    And let's not be too quick to think a witch hunt is the way to go. I heard them mention on the news that the Tucson shooter "listens to heavy metal bands" and I thought, "oh no, here we go again....". That kind of thinking is simply a way to control kids into doing nothing that their parents/teachers don't like. Which will really set off the unstable ones, but will end up with kids who are simply non-mainstream out in those survivalist camps or cults due to their totally normal teenage behavior being labeled as dangerous. ugh.

    I was a weird kid who didn't do well with mainstream kids, but followed my own path and have always been a balanced and productive, moderately successful person. I shudder tho think what my life would have been like without punk, Rocky Horror Picture Show and a vast array of all-black ensembles.

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  41. PS- for those without a lot of gun experience...

    I can empty a 30-round magazine in about 10 seconds depending on how much aim I'm taking. If there was a crowd to shoot into, I expect you could empty it in about 5 seconds.

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  42. I wonder.. is there more socios here? Or angsty goths.

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  43. I think there are just a few sociopaths that comment on here. The rest of us are...well, I don't know:)

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  44. So who do you think are the real sociopaths on this sight, grace?

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  45. I think UKan, misanthrope are sociopaths the rest narcs.

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  46. Anon- the angsty goth years ended a long time ago. However, I don't advertise myself as or consider myself a socio. The thing about this blog, for me, is that it provides a perspective that is radically different from mine. Which is very useful. (oh, c whut I did thair?)

    Plus there are moments of hilarity that I seldom see elsewhere. But I have a dark sense of humor.

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  47. did we scare the socios away? lol

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  48. Let me see. Ukan, Daniel, Post, I wonder about Medusa, Misanthrope, some guy Mike, TNP, ResCog, can't think of anyone else. Oh, and of course, M.E. too.

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  49. Grace, give me reasons why you think those you mentioned are sociopaths.

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  50. about Loughner, after reading all his online posts:
    'The online postings paint a picture of a disturbed young man trying to impress his peers and struggling to find a purpose to his life.'

    This could be said about anyone who posts here. A lot of the times I don't even mean what I write, I just want to see the reaction. To think that someone one day will try to profile me based on my contribution to this blog is scary. How about you guys? Are you all genuine all the time?

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  51. Don't send thank you notes, ladies.

    "On Tuesday, after a search of the Loughners' home, federal investigators found a letter from Rep. Giffords's office in which Mr. Loughner had scribbled the words "Die Cops" and "Die Bitch," said Capt. Chris Nanos of the Pima County Sheriff's Department. Capt. Nanos, who was briefed on the findings, said Mr. Loughner had also referenced an assassination in handwritten notes on the letter.

    The letter, dated 2007, was a form document sent by the staff of Rep. Giffords to thank Mr. Loughner for attending one of her events."

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  52. grace believes anything. that's her reasoning. lol

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  53. His recent online postings are more disturbing. On April 24, he asked: "Would you hit a Handy Cap Child/ Adult?" On May 20 at 12:03 a.m., he remarked: "I bet your hungry....Because i know how to cut a body open and eat you for more then a week. ;-)"

    The postings exhibit fixations on grammar, the education system, government and currency, which some friends and acquaintances have described separately in the days since the attack. They are peppered with displays of misogyny.

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  54. Grace, I am starting to see why you are an abuse victim.

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  55. I agree with the list Grace gave. What's you all's point?

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  56. They are the most consistent bloggers here. They keep coming back, and they don’t brag about being a sociopath. It’s clear in their stories. Their style of communicating doesn’t fluctuate either. The way they explain something can be raw, ugly and yet it makes sense to me, but I don’t relate to it usually. Of course the context of their stories/comments puts the cherry on top. What do you think?

    I assume M.E. is a sociopath based on his articles. He’s looking for feedback/input. He must relate to other sociopaths. Like I said about Medusa..I’m really kidding..I don’t know about her.

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  57. Anon, I'm not a victim of anything. And I have abused others. So what does that make me now? Do you know me well enough from this blog to say that? It's ok to bring something to my attention, if you want to.

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  58. If they did the pclr I would put money on Misanthrope and this user named Justice. The rest of the list the juries out, and some I don't know how you reached the conclusion you did. Not Able has been sociobate since he arrived even the empathetic people kick him around. He's never had consistency, he just goes along with whatever sounds like it be be accepted.
    That's my honest opinion.

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  59. You're assessment makes no sense, you cannot tell if a person is a sociopath from reading their blog entries. It takes lengthy interviews with the subject, the subjects closest. You are ignorant.

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  60. grace's list is all the people who claimed their sociopaths on here ever. either they are all right, or she believes everything she hears.....which do you think is more likely?

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  61. "I would put money on Misanthrope and this user named Justice"

    Why them?

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  62. 100% agree with UKan.

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  63. There are other people that come on here claiming to be this or that right? But they don't stick around. Why don't they? Because they are either going through something temporary, bored or they don't relate to anything here. So when you filter out all that what's left? A group of people who have something in common.

    I'm not wrong about what I've just said. It doesn't take a much to come to that conclusion.

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  64. Loughner has a series of logical statements posted. They are far too hilarious. Like the typical tall white male, one who says things with that attitude of extreme importance. So funny. I think some of our blog guests should take an honest look at themselves and try to trim their jared-like traits.

    Below is an actual statement from Jared.

    "All humans are in need of sleep. Jared Loughner is a human. So Jared Loughner is in need of sleep."

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  65. Grace said: "Let me see. Ukan, Daniel, Post, I wonder about Medusa, Misanthrope, some guy Mike, TNP, ResCog, can't think of anyone else. Oh, and of course, M.E. too."

    I've had my doubts about UKan too actually, but I have also doubted TNP for the exact same reasons UKan mentioned. Go figure. It's like a game where nobody can diagnose the other because we're all faking it. Oh shit, I have to say "Go figure" again.

    And about the belief that we're all narcs here otherwise, how could you tell?~

    I'm not a narc, I'm just the thought police checking up on you.

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  66. Justice wrote a article a while back about her and her sisters relationship, which could only be written by a sociopath. Nobody views people like that except sociopaths, especially their sister. She comes on once in a while with something to say and it is very consistent with the nature she portrayed.
    Misanthrope I thought he might be when he came in so I tried to test him. Instead of falling for it he tried to flip the game around on me and get me defensive. His comments are consistently the same as his name: Contempt against most of humanity, which he views as a bunch of fools.
    I don't know why people want to be sociopaths, as if it is a honor. Its a happy life for sure, but difficult.

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  67. another one from jared, a true loser narc in operation. very comedic.

    "Sleepwalking

    If I define sleepwalking then sleepwalking is the act of state of walking, eating, or performing other motor acts while asleep, of which one is unaware upon awakening.

    I define sleepwalking.

    Thus, sleepwalking is the act or state of walking, eating, or performing other motor acts while asleep, of which one is unaware upon awakening."

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  68. "Every United States Military recruit at MEPS in Phoenix is receiving on mini bible before the tests.

    Jared Loughner is a United States Military recruit at MEPS in Phoenix.

    Therefore, Jared Loughner is receiving one mini bible before the tests.

    I didn’t write a belief on my Army application, and the recruiter wrote on the application: None."

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  69. What do you think of Notable UKan?

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  70. "This video is my introduction to you! My favorite activity is conscience dreaming; the greatest inspiration for my political business information. Some of you don't dream--sadly."
    JLL

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  71. "I don't control your English grammar structure, but you control your English grammar structure."
    JLL

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  72. Did she died - JLL

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  73. Does anyone know if he has been tested for drugs? Even Rx ones?

    What is conscious dreaming? Making your dreams come true? omg

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  74. If you’re editing of every belief and religion reaches the final century then the writer for every belief and religion is you.

    You’re editing of every belief and religion reaches the final century.

    Thus, the writer for every belief and religion is you.

    You control every – thought, action, and lifestyle – for the person or people as the mind controller.

    I’m able to control every belief and religion by being the mind controller!

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  75. Anonymous, you are trying to get a free laugh.

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  76. get a free laugh? no idea what that means. i'm sharing what I find funny as we try to understand this character.

    do you envy him, UKan?

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  77. That was another anon, so i am guessing that's Notable. ^

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  78. Narcissists and psychopaths hate what they see in themselves.

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  79. Be quiet anon, there is a whole list we could pile on you compassionate persons.

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  80. anon @ 1:02 simply forgot to declare that the quote was from JLL. which anon is in question? Poor Notable, he is trying to help socios better direct themselves and getting a lot of backlash. UKan is doing the same but directing them to be even meaner, so he's cool since he is more acting like what you expect a socio to. sometimes he appears tall and handsome sometimes with a big beer belly and an ugly face while doing that.

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  81. Byson, please share the list. may help us to suffer less from all the burden of compassion. This is not sarcasm, I really wish you did that.

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  82. I think the response of someone thinking you would have to be Not Able is reflective of the validity of your comment. You know it wasn't me who came up with that name. It was Nikita who I forgot to mention as someone else I would nventure as a sociopath. I forgot about her because she comments seldomly.
    Not Able is clear cut. If you read his comments on this site his opinion has dramatically changed from when he first walked in, because he didn't receive the approval he so hoped for. Despite my constant abuse he will sometimes even seek mine, and fly back into hostility when he does not receive it. He is protective of people he doesn't know, not because he cares about them in paticular, but because they approve of him. He is intelligent and somewhat insightful in comparison to normal people, but is delusional about himself which makes him a easy target for people like me who exploit your delusions. I think as far as success in life Not Able has more of a chance then most people on here, because eventually Not Able will be able to make delusions a reality if he ever stops to seeking approval from others, and approves himself for who he really is. However, whether that will happen is still up in the air.

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  83. I don't think that everyone on Graces list belongs there(some of them do). Some of them are just misguided. But I think I've said before that I don't really care whose real and whose pretend on this site. I dont always like to call posters out on their bullshit, because then they get all touchy and hostile about it, and it becomes harder for me to extract information from them.

    In many ways, UKans got my number. I look down on other people because I see nothing but weakness in them. They don't love themselves, as I love myself. This makes them infirior to me, and gives me the right to use and abuse them.

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  84. Ukan do you remember a poster by the name of Ishtar? That's how long I've been on here. So I didn't pull those names out of a hat. That's my opinion. That's all I can give here. I thought the blogging going on with you and TNP was about two sociopaths going at it. I didn't always read the comments between you and him. So I see now.

    Ok so TNP off. This doesn't really matter to me. What matters to me is what I understand about people and the way I go about it. I was just responding to what Anon, don't know which one, had asked.

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  85. Just because a person is a psychopath, it doesn't mean they are sadistic, a sadist is worse.

    They are the kind of people who giggle like school girls while cutting a persons throat out.

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  86. Sadism and psychopathy = Malignant narcissism/Aggressive narcissism.

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  87. Considering to what extreme would be a waste of time here. Now that would require more than reading a blog.

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  88. i have a friend who seems to have a smirk on her face whenever something goes wrong with me like lets say we go out and it looks like my car was towed or if i loose something valuable or if i don't succeed at my current goal. would you classify that as sadistic? because i do.

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  89. Lol, the smirk should be on the DSM.

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  90. Maybe she just doesn't like you

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  91. I COULD KILL EVERY MOTHER FUCKING ONE OF YOU

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  92. I love how Loughner goes off about how everyone is illiterate, but has very little grasp of grammar himself.

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  93. Medusa, as Eric harris once said "you can't talk back when you're dead"

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  94. For the record, I look way too much like a psychopath to actually be one.

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  95. Anon, Ugh! Blair's a regular sociopathic/NPD douchebag politician. He can kiss my rosy arse.
    :D

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  96. @ Friend At Large

    You really shouldn't worry. If the person you haven't heard from is in a mental institution or dead, there's nothing you could do about either of those anyway.

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  97. So, you look incredibly bland?

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  98. Are you actually looking into this loser Laughner?

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  99. I only read the wikipedia page.

    Regarding depressed friend:

    a chronically depressed yet still functioning at high intelligence levels (think Abraham Lincoln) friend of mine has not responded to an email and a voice mail for over a month

    That's what serious depression does. Makes you not want to talk to anyone, especially those who are not going to get what depression really is (like you, for instance, who assumes 'sociopath' because he doesn't want to talk to anyone.)

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  100. Loughner's mugshot

    'Self-satisfied' isn't quite how I would describe this.

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  101. Wow,

    why the heck would he have did that? He was obviously super popular and a beast with the ladies.

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  102. He doesn't look satisfied, he looks insane.

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  103. when i saw that mugshot on the news I burst out laughing.
    And when did he shave his hair? He seems to look different in every picture.

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  104. Misanthrope what lead you to this site?

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  105. Anyone want to make an armchair diagnoses of Mr Laughner?

    I personally don't think that he was a sociopath, but more so an individual with a weak mind who wanted to die for a noble cause perhaps.

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  106. This is off topic but I just got such a rush at manipulating a couple. It didn't work, as she's too much under his control (like abusively) but it was so beautifully pulled off. Editing IMs...playing them off each other. Was bliss while it lasted. I had a big shit eating grin the whole time. People would ask me why I was chuckling to myself so much heeheh

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  107. "Misanthrope what lead you to this site?"

    Nothing. I just stumbled across it.

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  108. what's the rebuttal from the psuedo-intellectual psychopath community??

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  109. Aerienne, you're right but hard to be so uninterested about a friend.

    Medusa, I copy your dumb note below.
    I said she, not he. You're not reading well, Medusa. You may also ask why I suspect she might be a socio as opposed to assuming I say so because she has not called. Your sense of causality is off and you're too quick to jump to assumptions. Do you suppose that you have such quick with that one quick read (summarized by wiki, and I'd think cliff notes might be a great source for you as well) is all you need? Trust me, NOT. Will be happy to point out your fallacies for a while. In the meantime, learn who Medusa was better, you don't even know one tenth of what you should about Medusa. And, go ahead and shake some kinky hair of yours (kinky as in literally not sexually, of course), better yet, hit the walls with your head, make some noise, shake all that alcohol/drugs out of your system, girl..

    Medusa said...
    I only read the wikipedia page.

    Regarding depressed friend:

    a chronically depressed yet still functioning at high intelligence levels (think Abraham Lincoln) friend of mine has not responded to an email and a voice mail for over a month

    That's what serious depression does. Makes you not want to talk to anyone, especially those who are not going to get what depression really is (like you, for instance, who assumes 'sociopath' because he doesn't want to talk to anyone.)

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  110. sorry i lost my temper at medusa. for two things. first i asked for help and questioning with good intentions, not waiting for an attack. second, i don't like to make assumptions and when one suggests that i do (for a note that was all about questioning and trying to understand) i just see a lower form feeling superior and that does make me angry. i don't feel sorry for her, i feel sorry for my showing anger on a low form.

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  111. so... getting back to topic:
    empath parents have very little hope of thinking that their child could go on a rampage. even if all the signs were there they would project their own thought patterns onto them and never believe they could be capable of it. it would take a sociopathic parent, someone who can dispassionately evaluate their own son, to believe it possible.

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  112. Sorry about the gender mess-up, and sorry you saw it as an attack. What's with that racist crap? Who ever said I have kinky hair? talk about a lower form feeling threatened....

    Anyhow, I wasn't attacking you, I was just providing some clues as to why in god's green earth your friend might not want to talk to you right now. Fear of judgement just might be one of them, as I have said. Sorry I didn't add the appropriate emoticons to temper my words so as not to stab you in the heart (which is how you seem to have taken it).

    All you said about your 'friend' was that she was intelligent and depressed.

    Absolutely nothing you said pointed to your friend being a 'sociopath'.

    Who is the one making assumptions?

    And if you have more to go on in thinking your friend is a sociopath other than that she is avoiding you, it would probably help if you gave more details.

    Otherwise I smell narc.

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  113. Medusa:
    you said "like you, for instance, who assumes 'sociopath' because he doesn't want to talk to anyone."
    Can you see an assumption in that sentence of yours?

    you also said "What's with that racist crap? Who ever said I have kinky hair?"
    Another assumption here coming from you. Kinky hair...> must be black oh, one more, mentioned black, must be racist. Medusa as in the real one from Greek mythology has kinky hair.

    Anyhow, this message of yours has a little more respect, thanks for that. I won't dwell on my friend anymore. I only wish that she is well and that the only thing she needs is a brief time out from life till she regroups.

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  114. I would think a sociopathic parent wouldn't care enough about their child to do anything.

    Or maybe they would take pride and explain how to do it right.

    Or save everyone else the trouble and take them out themself.

    What do you think?

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  115. ResCogitans said...
    so... getting back to topic:
    empath parents have very little hope of thinking that their child could go on a rampage. even if all the signs were there they would project their own thought patterns onto them and never believe they could be capable of it. it would take a sociopathic parent, someone who can dispassionately evaluate their own son, to believe it possible.

    I beg to differ. Plus when you look at the statement it is more about the degree of the event as opposed to the nature of the event these parents are referring to. Both the numbers and the fame of the victims are the real cause of the media frenzy. I bet these parents were scared for their own lives. I know two sets of parents who are very aware of their sons' violence and are in fear of their own lives. Empath or socio, parents know when a murderer is in the making. It's the suicidals (with no intention of homicide in the process) who do a good job of hiding their pain.

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  116. Why even mention 'kinky' (instead of curly) hair if not race-baiting? You said that 'kinky' bit for the express purpose, I'm quite sure, of getting a race-related response to which you can say "you're making assumptions" in the attempt to make me look stupid, all the while making yourself look stupid.

    My hair is not kinky anyhow, so where does yourassumption that I have it come from?

    Medusa had snakes for hair, not kinks. Good christ, get an education. Or at least do some research before you spout crap.

    I said I only looked at the wiki article with regards to the Jared dude. Did I say anything here witty or insightful about this guy? No, I didn't. I merely said his photo doesn't look self-satisfied. Someone here asked if the people here were actually looking into the Jared guy and I said that I only read the wiki article. So what the fuck are you talking about?

    Also, I do not drink and only smoke weed off an on.

    Are you talking to a mirror?

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  117. i am not a parent, but would guess that a socio parent would still value their child, probably beyond them just being part of their public family-man mask, and a mature socio knows that playing by the rules in public is the best policy, and so would be in a position to talk honestly with their son and explain that.

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  118. A couple years ago in Jackson N.J. USA a young boy around 10 yrs.old was selling a school fund raiser door to door. A young neighbor around 16 answered the door, he sexually assaulted the boy then killed him.
    His parents were afaid of their son and had tryed to get a court order before this had happened. The Judge had denied the parents request.
    After the incedent the Judge was assinged to another court venue, from Family Court.

    wv- sicki.....no lie

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  119. an empath parent will always believe there is some good in their child, some hope of redemption. of course there are exceptions and it is only my opinion but i believe that to be true in 99% of cases.

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  120. Medusa you can't smell a narc after two sentences, it goes to show the kind of people who are here.

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  121. I think that an empath parent might be less likly to overlook a cruel behavior or blame other's for their childs behavior. Not all I'm sure.

    But would a sociopathic parent be so quick to correct their child for assertring themselves phycically and aggressivly toward other's?

    I've read it said on here that they prefere to have a stronger less weak child that they could be proud of.

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  122. this is a general question and off the topic. how can i differentiate between a co-dependent and a parasitic person with mild socio traits? or, should i assume they are pretty much the same?

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  123. Friend at Large, is there not a mutual acquaintance you could ask about this woman's well-being? That would let you know if you were just being given the cold shoulder by her.

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  124. a socio parent is proud of an aggressive child, until the aggression is turned against the parent. an empath hurts when a child hurts someone else.

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  125. A co dependent wants love, reasurance and to please you, a parasite wants you're money and hospitality without returning much.

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  126. right now I hate men. I had to take a walk to the local cashpoint in the dark and some assholes were just eyeing me up and doing stupid noises at me all the way up and down the street. (let's just i'm feeling effing fragile and that just fucked me off). To top it off I had to linger by the damn cashpoint waiting for my money whilst some other guys just stared at me. Some hunchback old dude then came in line behind me - which wasn't eery at all!~
    I swear i had eyes on every side of my head. There was no one else around. I thought, 'So, is this how I'm gonna die! In this shithole town?' Lol, I even withdrew 20 rather than 30 pounds cos I thought, well if they're gonna mug me at least I can save 10pounds.

    Yeah, I hate men right now. Assholes. Do us a favour and keep your dicks and eyes down when a girl is walking alone in the middle of the night. Get it!

    Sorry, i had to rant.

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  127. of course a child is a reflection on you, a status symbol of a sort, and a narcissistic mini-me. if i found out my girl was pregnant with a retard or child with any kind of disability i would not hesitate to get her to the abortion clinic.
    not all with sociopathic traits are aggressive and would encourage that. certainly i would encourage any child of mine not to take any shit from the inferior sheep, but that doesn't mean i would encourage him/her to be the aggressor. like i said, playing by the rules in public is the smarter game. ukan doesn't think that someone with self control can be a socio - and technically he is right as a pathology is defined by behaviour not thought process. but when i say 'socio' i am inclusive of those with the socio thought patterns but also with self knowledge and self control (i think one can spring from the other to some extent)

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  128. Aerienne,
    We have no common friends. I would have to involve someone from her professional circle and this would come across as major concern about her well-being. If this is indeed a case of deep depression I could be exposing her within her professional circle. People are quick to discredit professionals suffering from depression.

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  129. Trolls and narcs are good for logic exercise and practice, hence I enjoy feeding them.

    It's all about me, you see.

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  130. Friend at Large, then you have two options, as I see it.

    1) Stalk her.
    or
    2) Forget it.

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  131. Aerienne, how about this? i write a sincere email saying if I don't hear from her within a week I'll check with so and so.


    medusa, you do need a lot of exercise, keep up the hard work.

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  132. Codependent people are great for relationships with sociopaths. They naturally follow and have no will for power even in their own lives. There are a lot of codependants that come on here.
    Speaking of codependants, I do remeber ishtar, Grace. Wasn't she the one I flipped inside out till she broke down and told the truth? You two came in at the same time.

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  133. Some of the weakest people have the power to control the co-dependent. They pray on their sence of helping till they use them up. I've know quite a few that have everyone else doing everything for them and one was a socio. Look for the one that trys to turn all the other freind's or relative's against you when you draw the line. Starts slander, bingo will probly be a socio.

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  134. FAL reminds me of that Empath woman.

    If it's depression, just let her know you are there if she needs you. That is all you can do. Perhaps email her some support material (crisis hotlines, local services, etc.) though that might irritate her.

    Otherwise, it really is out of your hands, and in hers only.

    Aerianne summed it up very well.

    Either drop it, or creep her out with savior/superiority delusions.

    i write a sincere email saying if I don't hear from her within a week I'll check with so and so.

    Sounds like a threat to me. Not helpful.

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  135. Friend, so you'd rather put pressure on her and give her an ultimatum than secretly look in on her?

    Are you sure checking on her well-being is your priority in this?

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  136. it's not all about MedusaJanuary 12, 2011 at 6:46 PM

    It's not all about me, so shut the fuck up.

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  137. Nobody listens to Medusa, she can rant on.

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  138. I say to discard your friend completely. I they committed suicide they weren't really worth being friends with. If they are ignoring you, then you are a desperate loser and they aren't worth being friends with. If they are locked in a deep depression it is uncomfortable, awkward, and it brings you down. Therefore they are still not worth being friends with.

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  139. It's not all about me, so shut the fuck up.

    You sure about that?

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  140. this codependent (that i thought to be) simply stuck around. attaching herself to my plans, never stating her own preference on anything. almost never looking happy but never complaining. just like those little fish attached to some big fish. it was so hard to carry her existence after a while. she disappeared when i told her this is not fun for me, that she had to be present at some level. she moved on to a socio man, and then to another. i just started to question my definition of codependent for her, she started to appear more of a well-choosing socio, feeding on socios' energy. she also claimed being raped by two different men both of whom she befriended and visited after hours. i never saw her showing any emotions other than once ranting about a man who challenged her loyalty to me.

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  141. it's not all about MedusaJanuary 12, 2011 at 6:51 PM

    She only has herself to thank ;)

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  142. I'm afraid of women speaking up!

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  143. Some narcissists can act like co dependents, it's very different though, if a narcissist envies a person they may start acting like that person and picking up their gestures, for example a narcissist enters a new job, he scopes out who the main guys are and who is at the bottom of the ladder, he attaches himself to the boss and sends a flurry of compliments towards him, in the bosses eyes this may seem like co dependent, but the narcissist will go home to his family and talk about the boss who he envies, once the narcissist spots weakness within the boss he will devalue him, see him as being weak and will try to take over his position with ruthlessness.

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  144. co-depend or socio, if she makes your head spin and you spew pea soup, she's a socio.

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  145. Aerienne something like the following is what I had meant, but after reading UKan's note I decided to htfu and drop the whole matter.



    Dear friend,
    As I mentioned in my last voicemail to you I am concerned about your well-being. I do understand if you are not feeling well and are not able to return my phone call at this time but I need to know that you are alive. Please just confirm that you got this message and feel free to get back if and when you wish to do so. I wish I had your parents' number but I don't and am thinking of asking Elizabeth if I don't hear from you.

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  146. Logic forcefield under attack, did s/he died?

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  147. Lol at Anon @ 6:58

    What was it someone told me on here once?

    Something about hitting them in the face with a frying pan to tell if they're socio or not.

    I wouldn't recommend it.

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  148. What are you trying to accomplish FAL?

    I didn't read you're comments in full, but I'm guessing all of this hysteria is because a friend is leaving? If that is the case, then you sound borderline, and have a massive fear of being abandoned, you're friend probably thinks you are insane.

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  149. You know, delivering an ultimatum to a socio is a lot like hitting them in the face with a frying pan.

    Nothing good can come of it.

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  150. Or you can tell if your booze are car is gone and your cat is pregnant, then it was a socio.

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  151. anon @ 7:05. the original post:
    friend at large said...
    a chronically depressed yet still functioning at high intelligence levels (think Abraham Lincoln) friend of mine has not responded to an email and a voice mail for over a month. a part of me wants to assume she was a socio and is dropping me off because she has no more use for me (which is fine with me, I never had and possibly won't have any use for her anyway--saying all this to relate to your way of thinking, I'm also learning like Mila, I'm actually feeling a loss and a level of responsibility) yet a part of me is concerned and wandering to reach a common acquaintance to check what's up, which is sort of violation of privacy. what should i do?

    January 12, 2011 7:28 AM

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  152. Interesting how FAL doesn't heed Aerianne or myself, but does heed Ukan, who said basically the same thing as we did.

    Draw your own conclusions.

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  153. Are you saying it's TNP?

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  154. ultimatum??? caring vs controlling... interesting, but yes, this does sound like an ultimatum dipped in chocolate. too much work.

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  155. Medusa,
    I am curious as to what conclusion you're drawing.
    Your FAL

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  156. curiousone said...

    UKan: I'd like to know why you helped Mila. It is very unlikely that she will help you in any way, so I guess the standard 'I helped X because X can be useful' reasoning does not apply. I admit that I did not read all the comments on this blog but from the ones I read it seems that you consider yourself a sociopath. How do you explain your action in this case? What do you think about the reason of helping Mila?

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  157. TheNotablePath said...

    It's an interesting subject, focus.

    I remember watching Dr. Joseph Newman's interview on criminal psychopathy and psychopathy in general. I've seen it a few times. He talks about how shallow affect can be manipulated momentarily to compel someone to feel something they normally don't.

    On a not quite related note, one of his anecdotes was that several criminal clinically diagnosed psychopaths said that sometimes when they saw a person in need, they'd help them for no benefit, it was just something they felt compelled to do. It wasn't a matter of right or wrong, but just aiding a fellow human. It's something I could relate to.

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  158. ObservingPatheticLowsJanuary 12, 2011 at 7:31 PM

    Ha! So the whole FAL thing was Notable trying to get UKan to be helpful to someone for no reason, just like UKan said Notable does.

    I don't know if that's really precious or just pathetic.

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  159. amazing.. life is all about conspiracy for some. all of this got me hungry. having stuffed dolmates and potato sald. want some?

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  160. ObservingPatheticLowsJanuary 12, 2011 at 7:52 PM

    See, you really didn't have to say anything else.

    "Me thinks thou doth protest too much", you fool.

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  161. I was the logic barrier. Its obvious someone in here is insecure about women.
    I helped Mila, because I wanted to. Want to know something else I did? I gave a kid selling chocalates money so he can buy a xbox and didn't take the chocolates. Want to know something else I did? I payed my bodyguard over what we agreed since the day he worked for me. Want to know what else I did? I bought my employee her favorite hat for christmas. I got a list of good deeds. Does that make you confused?

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  162. ObservingPatheticLowsJanuary 12, 2011 at 8:15 PM

    It doesn't make me confused, but it does make me feel like we need to prepare to be nauseated by Notable plastering a list of his good deeds.

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  163. That question wasn't for you, it was for curious one.
    Not able wants to fit in so bad. He will swing anyway the room goes.

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  164. ObservingPatheticLowsJanuary 12, 2011 at 8:37 PM

    "Notably Pathetic".

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  165. Ukan, I think you're thinking of Zan.

    This is a copy of one of Ishtar's comments to me. At the time I was offended but now that I understand more, I get it.

    Ishtar said...
    But you, Isthar, can be too abrasive with your comments.

    I'm not denying that. What I find odd is how people come to a website geared toward a personality trait that is characterized by callousness and expect those who comment to consider their feelings. First, it's the internet so nobody gives it a shit either way, and second, if they're looking for sympathy from someone who lacks the ability to give it, good luck.

    This was in April, I came here in March. I think he was a sociopath as well. But then I never saw him again.

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  166. Anyone remember thunderball?

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  167. Thunderball was exactly like Not Able. Almost spitting image.

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  168. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  169. I can't really comment on an empathetic parent spotting a troubled child. My father has some very strong NPD traits, so I'd hazard a guess that at the very least, he isn't "normal".

    He knew there was something off with me, but couldn't figure it out. He tried to isolate me from other friends, family, et cetera, thinking someone was being a bad influence for me. He spent quite the pretty penny for about six months trying to get my counseling, but apparently I was a well-adjusted young boy who had a wild hair once in a while, you know, perfectly natural for that age and all. He commented to me several times, thinking I was doing some sort of drugs. When I finally told him what was up, he seemed relieved, as if possibly having ASPD was a drastic improvement over abusing drugs.

    I won't disagree, but I thought it was hilarious.

    You know, delivering an ultimatum to a socio is a lot like hitting them in the face with a frying pan. Nothing good can come of it.


    Quote of the day, right there.

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  170. I feel so used. --for all we know, I can be of use to Ukan. Why did justcurious assume that I would be unwilling to help Ukan or have nothing he might want? If you are a con artist, isn't "helping people" part of it? I got what I wanted from a big cat here. That doesn't make me a user. It makes me smart and resourceful. No?

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  171. How often and intensely do the Real Sociopaths on here use what the Donnas* call "The Pity Play"? I don't see much evidence of pitiful behavior, even if it's the right note to strike to manipulate someone, in UKan or Misanthrope or Justice. So, use it? Or not really?



    *Them Lovefraud Wimmin

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  172. You see right through this UKan, right?

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  173. The pity play is a farce, sociopaths want you to see them as strong at all times.

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  174. Oh no you don't. I am not lovefraudmaterial. Believe me. I haven't learned to be so cunning. You're being paranoid, anon. And I know better than to play with a socio. You kidding me?

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  175. I think guilt tripping is mistaking for pity play, the socio will tell you how bad their day was, to make you feel bad about yourself, it has nothing to do with the sociopath wanting you're feeble sympathy.

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  176. Sometimes it's just bitching about bad luck.

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  177. I think what the Donnas mean is that a socio who is trying to coerce a person will justify a bad behavior with a tearful recounting of, say, childhood sexual abuse, or a psychotic ex, or something designed to make one feel that this person who just flat-out lied to manipulate is merely a broken, damaged, but basically good person, who deserves another chance. I didn't mean you, Mila. I didn't even notice your post.

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  178. Seriously. I would hate it if another socio thought I was untrustworthy. It is how I lost my socio boyfriend. -I think. I was not guilt-tripping either. I was reaching out. I don't need a pity party. I am grateful, Ukan.

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  179. I appreciate your loyalty. Even though he didn't.

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  180. You can't use the pity play in here. This is sociopathworld. There is no pity.

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  181. UKan, do you agree that sociopaths cry to their partner abs use that sort of pity play? That's entirely wrong, because the sociopath would fear being seen as weak or word getting around.

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  182. think what the Donnas mean is that a socio who is trying to coerce a person will justify a bad behavior with a tearful recounting of, say, childhood sexual abuse, or a psychotic ex, or something designed to make one feel that this person who just flat-out lied to manipulate is merely a broken, damaged, but basically good person, who deserves another chance.

    This is precisely what Ol' Blue Eyes managed to accomplish.

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  183. And I don't mean Frank Sinatra, except maybe figuratively.

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  184. I once seen interview with Richard kuklinski, in it he was talking about his family, he was getting emotional and was fighting back tears, he then said, not so macho is it? This reinforces my belief that sociopaths do not like to show warm emotion.

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  185. Or is that a malignant narc?

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  186. I saw that a few weeks ago. The last interview when he's talking to the psychiatrist... heavy.

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  187. I'm not into playing on peoples pity. I would rather play on other emotions. My girlfriend calls me what medusa called me the other day: a demon. She would never have pity for me. Take for instance it took me forever to get my firear, because my conviction was overturned but it didn't show on their computer. I was raging mad railing against the beuracracy. She told me the fact that its a struggle for a person like me to get a gun shows the system works.
    Donna is using what she experienced and generalizing it. Using pity on people that are not subseptable to taking care of people is counter productive. Not everyone is as big of a mark as Donna.

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  188. Pity play is a borderline thing, those poor things want you to feel bad for them.

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  189. I'm glad this blog got a clear out, the old posters were awful, who thinks it's better now?

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  190. Then when? We had a few clear outs.

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  191. Uhm, I'd say around the Sarah generation, the group that tried to sound super intelligent with each post. I like when people act modest because it's the opposite of what I am i battle with arrogance because I see it in myself. That is why co dependents love a dominant personality.

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  192. Yah what a bore. That was a long time ago. Who are you?

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  193. hey, what's up?
    Pity hey?

    By the way, are borderlines the default put-down now? Hmm...
    Oh and i don't consciously seek pity - it just arrives nicely wrapped with a little 'you're great' card. Well, clearly not from socios. Go figure.~

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  194. Just a regular reader, I need to set up a blog soon.

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