Friday, January 7, 2011

An explanation for tears

In a recent NY Times article, researchers discovered that men are sexually de-aroused from smelling a woman's emotional tears:
The researchers accidentally happened upon the evidence that women’s tears make men feel as if they have taken a cold shower.

They had assumed chemical signals from tears would trigger sadness or empathy in others. But initial experiments found that sniffing women’s tears did not affect men’s mood or empathy, but “had a pronounced influence on sexual arousal, a surprise,” Dr. Sobel said.
***
Why women’s tears would send a message of “not tonight, dear” is puzzling. Some experts suggested the tears could have evolved to reduce men’s aggression toward women who are weakened by emotional stress. The studies did not measure the effect on aggression, although future research might, Dr. Sobel said. Another thought, he said, is that the effect of tears evolved in part to coincide with menstrual cycles.
***
The research, published on Thursday in the journal Science, could begin to explain something that has baffled scientists for generations: Why do humans, unlike seemingly any other species, cry emotional tears?
It would be interesting to see what a sociopath's reaction to emotional tears is. I realize this is completely anecdotal, but whenever people cry around me I either basically ignore it, reflexively cry (the same way I would reflexively cough) or get angry at them if they are crying as some sort of remonstrance for my bad behavior. I'd like to see how that fits into the evolutionary theory of tears, or maybe the evolutionary theory of sociopaths.

Reading about these types of studies makes me realize how poorly we can explain even something so fundamental and basic as humans crying emotional tears. Perhaps because we know so little about how our world functions, it is tempting to take some new discovery and make logical leaps to explain myriad behaviors. This happens frequently with socio experiments, where each new discovery leads to a new theory of the origins and causes of sociopathy. It is a dangerous practice to draw unwarranted conclusions from limited evidence, an example of scientific hubris. As one tear scientist warned regarding the recent findings: it would be “premature to speculate about the evolutionary function” of chemo-signaling in tears, adding: “I have no doubt that it affected sexuality as they report, but I would be very surprised if it doesn’t turn out to affect other emotions in other contexts. Maybe it’s affecting some deeper, more fundamental psychological process that drives the effect that they’re reporting.”

182 comments:

  1. Maybe toxic fumes come out of women's eyes when they feel upset and kill all impulse of life.

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  2. i like seeing men cry, i want to mother them. :(
    I actually wouldn't be surprised if it turns me on, since i met my ex in that state. Don't even ask!

    I totally get the monthly cycle thing. But i thought men are aroused by seeing women in pain! well, some men. Must it be tearless pain? - that's quite specific. :p

    btw, i got my star sign all wrong. i'm not aquarius, i'm actually a pisces - lolololol!!! Again, don't ask. Seriously, how ditsy can one woman get!

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  3. Funny, I just broke up with a sociopath. When he saw me cry (most likely, it was over something he'd said or had done), he actually seemed more aroused than ever. I could never understand it.

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  4. I'm disgusted by peoples tears. Its revolting. I either get angry, digusted, or so disgusted that it makes me angry.
    If I'm trying to break somebody than their tears mean victory. It signals that I'm in control.

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  5. I don't like when people cry around me, unless that's the reaction that I was trying to provoke. The way I see it, unless your under the age of eight or in intense physical pain, there's no excuse for crying.

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  6. I don't like people crying around me either. For that matter I refuse to cry around anyone. I see it as a sign of emotional weakness in others and in myself.

    I wonder if this study had delved deeper if it would have found that tears lessen arousal, but stimulat other emotions, like protection or dominance, which would further the solidification of a parenting unit and therefore encourage the success of speciees propogation.

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  7. I don't think sociopaths can handle that kind of drama. They get annoyed with the humanity and vulnerability of seeing someone cry and express sadness or any intense emotional reaction that changes the calmness in the air. But that's my experience with my ex.

    It would be like me seeing one of them walk by an old lady that fell on the ground and not helping her get up. I could picture it now.


    HavenNyx, maybe that depends on the person they're with and the love factor. Because I know sociopaths do love just in their own way.

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  8. I think women's tears lessening sexual arousal in men is a good thing. I think it helps smooth gender relations. I know that if I'm crying, say mourning a death, I would find it very callous if my man was turned on by it and wanted to have sex in that moment.

    I wonder what the study would say about the effect of women's tears on other women. I would be equally offended if my tears of sadness were to sexually arouse a female lover.

    I wonder if either gender is sexually turned on by tears.

    I also wonder if the arousal factor differs given the emotional origin of the tears. Tears of sadness are not the only tears that are shed. Some people cry when enraged and some people cry tears when they laugh deeply.

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  9. I also have to wonder about how the source of the tears might have effected the study.

    How were the tears collected? Did they play sappy movies for uber empaths and have some weirdo in a lab coat sit with a vial on the cryer's cheek?

    If so, then I'd probably be offended by the content of those tears, too, lol.

    I don't know that an authentic study can be done on "real" tears. What are they going to do, pass out tear vials at funerals? That would change the content of the tears and they couldn't be labeled as "tears of mourning". They'd have to be labeled as "tears of feeling really confused and self-conscious about crying into a vial at a funeral".

    I doubt it's an exact science given the difficulty in being able to collect authentically produced tears based on different emotions.

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  10. Haven, you already proved you were weak from cutting you're arms. Why the sudden re invention? Lol

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  11. Aerianne, are you implying there's something wrong with me?~

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  12. @Anon... that's your opinion, which frankly, doesn't matter to me.

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  13. Well, we know what seeing blood does to most people.

    I'm with M.E. on this one though, I love how these idiots (overpaid sociopaths in white jackets) need all the puzzle peices to fit. "This peice of the puzzle MUST fit THIS way, nevermind that I am unaware of how the fifty others fit. Believe in me and keep giving me your money." Sound familiar?

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  14. I'm not most people. Neither are you.

    People fear what they don't understand. They need to find and give meaning to everything. If there's not reason the tenuous control they grip reality with, slips away.

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  15. Tears smell like prey. They tend to fascinate me or arouse me.

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  16. Nyx I'd agree with you, but I have to split that group in two. There are those who fall in to that category who need reality given to them, and then there are those who need to create their own reality from the top down.

    I can claim neither, but I don't really understand their fear in that department. It seems like a waste of time. I understand more their need of it, afterall I am the one who believes they are psychopaths and myself not. Perhaps one day I shall pay the price for being a bit too comfortable in my own skin, a sum that will likely change from my hands to those hands who I interpret aren't comfortable enough in theirs.

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  17. men's tears are a big turn off for me, not just in the moment but for good after that moment on. i cannot possibly have sex with a man who cries, that'd make me almost lesbian.

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  18. Someone shared the story on another site.
    The tears were collected by women volunteers, watching sad movies.
    Tears

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  19. @Anon... I agree with the split groups. I also agree that it seems like a waste of time. Whether they can understand the genetic reasoning or not, it won't change anything. Unless I suppose they're trying to create weepy housewives from scratch in the basement lab. But most people fear the inevitable or the thought that there really is no higher meaning to this world, their life. They are self important and need to cling to the idea that life has a meaning. If they can delve deep enough, perhaps they can prove it.

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  20. i've licked the tears off a girl's face during sex (BPD girl...)
    i don't remember it dampening my ardour :) fuck she made me horny! maybe there's a pheromone attraction thing between BPD and socio types.

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  21. you must have licked other stuff to compensate

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  22. You kinky bastard.

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  23. why was she crying while having sex with you. upset that you are not the one she loves?

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  24. In some cultures, crying is punishable by death. There are gangs who will kill you if you don't show toughness, if they point a gun at you, then tell you to pray and you do it, they may shoot you.

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  25. you obv don't know BPD... she was just liable to go off at any point. and no, the problem was she loved me too much but didn't believe she was good enough for me and that i'd dump her eventually.

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  26. Res has stated why the woman was crying, but if he hadn't, I might have guessed she was crying tears of joy. People cry for reasons other than sadness.

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  27. You would actually fuck a sap like that? God knows where her cunt has been.

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  28. hey aerianne - when/why did you cry last?

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  29. Licking tears off someones face? You, sir, disgust me. Next thing you know you'll be eating shit out of someones arsehole.

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  30. Res, I cried because I missed someone that I love and because I was frustrated that the circumstances that caused me to be missing them were beyond my control.

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  31. is a woman crying during sex a bpd thing? didn't know that.

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  32. hmmm not my cup of tea, though she did offer to rim me, lol.

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  33. Did she drop a log in you're tea too?

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  34. aer - that's something i could never imagine doing. crying in front of someone could have manipulative purposes, but that obv wasn't. i guess that's the difference between you and i ;) BTW how's the genealogy project going? thrown up any surprises?

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  35. Crying never has manipulative purposes, if you cry, you're automatically looked down upon. When i see a person cry, i lose huge respect for them, there was never any really to begin with.

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  36. @grace,haven
    it wasn't a regular thing, just the once, but as her emotions were so up and down at the drop of a hat i wasn't surprised and didn't partic care. just licked it up and continued. that sounds pretty cold, but actually i felt more for her than i thought i was capable of.

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  37. No recent surprises, Res. Those came a year ago when I was gathering data. Now, I have begun compiling the data to share with family.

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  38. Ok. Because I've cried during sex. In retrospect I'm not sure it had anything to do with love. It just felt so good to be that close, physically.

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  39. ooo a simpsons i haven't seen!? laters.

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  40. Res, what a likely scenario. You share my preference and somewhat-theory of pheromones. My god, she was rich in them too. I didn't make mine cry during sex, but exactly like you stated she was way too deep but didn't believe she was good enough for me.

    Now that I think about it, if I had the words would I have explained that thinking like that wasn't necessary for my acceptance? lol.

    I think if I had to choose between them all it'd be her. She more than tolerated my callousness and lacking, and during the challenge phase she would not allow me to be as smooth and precise as she falsely required lol.

    If I were ever high off a human then surely that one. Match made in heaven.

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  41. Anon @ 10:58

    If you'd write your statements from finish to start you could save yourself some words.

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  42. anon11.13
    get a name!
    so that's me, TNP, and you... it is an interesting pattern...

    haven
    don't be insulted i've removed my public following from your blog - i'm gonna show it to someone and don't want any trace back to my blog. not that there's anything partic on mine i don't want them to see, but i expect there will be in future.

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  43. Res, once again I must decline. It is very nice to talk with a certain few of you from time to time. Despite my residency here and no place else, I will always be a random anonymous.

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  44. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  45. @Res... you're going to show them my blog? but, no worries. Do what ya gotta do.

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  46. hmm, that notme wasn't me, obvio.

    i don't let people see me cry either usually. i really don't like them to see.
    i've cried during sex too. lol.
    i totally get the pheromones thing Res. You're right.

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  47. yeah that BPD ex... she's pretty messed up. i figure it'd be good to know she's not the only one going through stuff like that. i'm also gonna encourage her to start a blog, as a kind of therapy, and a way of focusing her thoughts. actually i'll be showing it to her fiance and suggest he does that. he's a friend of mine and it's... complicated!

    heading out. catch yous later when i've had a few ;)

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  48. @Res, in which case I'm rather flattered. Writing this blog has been very therapeutic for me, I hope she can find her own solace. Cheers.

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  49. Licking tears during sex sounds more like intimacy than any kind of predatory sociopath thing.



    My closest friend's boyfriend cries on average 3 times a week at least. I laugh every time she tells me a new anecdote involving him crying. She always wanted a sensitive boy who cried a lot but now I think she's starting to wonder.

    She is also beginning to wonder if he is a psychopath.

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  50. Awhhh scissor me zerksy awwhhh scissor my ass

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  51. I think i was seven when i last cried. I was always intolerable to physical pain too, but i usually try to avoid it.

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  52. He was also a virgin until age 36 and kept a rifle around in case he ever wanted to kill himself. If that tells you anything.

    Who the fuck's first firearm choice is a rifle for suicide?

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  53. Tears during sex. Not so much a turn off as it is a distraction. They usually make me grin (since they're happy/pleasure tears) but I still find it weird.

    Tears outside of sex. I loath when a person is usually crying. There are exceptions. Is this someone who I want in a vulnerable situation? I can now capitalize on it, be their comforter or protector and further my agenda. They get the help they need and I get ahead. If that's not the case, and they're just being an emotional ball of tears, snot, and whinging, anger certainly comes to mind as a reaction...

    Even with kids. You can tell when a child is fake crying. It's funny, but irritating, especially in public places where their parents drag them.

    I do like seeing tears that I've gone out of my way to cause. I don't think that's sociopathic though, just grim satisfaction.

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  54. oh ballacks. i'm going out tonight except i can't be bothered to get ready. hmph.

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  55. i'm so sexist. If i see a woman cry i feel for them totally and want to hug them. If it's a guy who keeps crying and won't stop, i'm like, enough already. If it's someone i'm attracted to then it makes me like them more.
    It's all rather inconsistent.
    hehe.
    The socio ex would burst into tears at some hilarious public moments - I think he didn't realise quite when tears were needed. It was funny/endearing since i would NEVER have cried at the moments myself. I liked it too cos it showed how out of sync with the norm he was. lols.
    Everything that others thought was ridiculous about him, I loved.
    What a surprise.~

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  56. i don't think i let it show if i see any man crying, that i find it a bit irritating at some point. I just tell them to let it all out, whilst thinking, 'get over it!'
    I know it's wrong to think that, which is why i just let them get on with it.
    Seeing my dad cry was always strange. It's hard to see your dad cry i think.

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  57. Never saw my father cry, ever, except while watching movies and he would play it off like there was something in his eye.

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  58. the only time I saw my dad cry was because of me for some reason. I think i've seen it maybe twice.

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  59. I hate seeing my father cry. It makes me want to hurt him for some reason. The one exception of when he told me that he was being abused by a nurse. The idea of someone violating my father put me into a fit of anger, and he refused to tell me who it was, and that they were already being fired for the discretion. I would have murdered that nurse without hesitation that night. Consequences and even the idea of being caught were thrown to the wind.

    That sort of reaction is incredibly rare for me. It's not feeling sorry for the person, or even revenge for them. It's about someone violating something of mine. I guess I'm too possessive with those I deem to be someone I care about.

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  60. that's horrible. I would have killed her. (not literally). :)

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  61. Notable you get offensive? When someone abuses my parents i usually join in.

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  62. If I saw my father cry, he passed away, I think I would have crawled up in a ball and died. Growing up he was my source of security and if he showed any kind of weakness, I would have felt my only security was falling apart. I guess at that time it was all about me.

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  63. Yes, I do when someone violates someone I care about.

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  64. My narc/socio ex cries all the time. Forget crying at sad movies; he cries at commercials. He cries at inappropriate times, and he fakes crying. However, when I had finally let it sink in he was leaving me with two kids, bankrupt, and I took a nearly-fatal overdose, he didn't cry. He was just annoyed. And when my friend told him that I had overdosed and had to go to the ER, he just said, "You take her." So she did. He then showed up an hour or so later, after having disinformed the children that the impending divorce was mutual, and tried to have his name taken off of my emergency contacts list. Oh well, 26 years isn't my WHOLE adult life. Oh, wait, yes, it is. LOL. Good riddance. Later, when I questioned him about it (I have no memory of the events of that night), surprise! He lied, and said he was crying like crazy. Um, sure you were. Luckily, his new GF is probably also a sociopath, so they are PERFECT for one another. As he said, she is the "F-ed up and broken yin to my yang." Mazel tov!

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  65. My narc/socio ex cries all the time. Forget crying at sad movies; he cries at commercials.

    Sounds like my friend's boyfriend. He actually recorded one of the commercials that makes him cry so he could watch it over and over.

    But he treats her so well and so respectfully, to the point of almost complete passivity, mimicry and submission.

    Who knows, though, what he will be like when she is ready and in a position to break up with him. The thought freaks me out a little bit.

    I hope I'm just being dramatic and overly everyone-is-a-sociopath-or-narcissist minded.

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  66. I guess your cry for attention fell on deaf ears.

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  67. Medusa, I think there are a lot more sociopaths than one would at first assume. I feel strongly that my ex is one (He is a songwriter, and his recent songs include I Am The Stone, and Should Have Been Love By Now), and he frequently has some type of mask as his Facebook picture (gas mask, Mexican wrestling mask). He is incredibly sexually compulsive, a pathological liar, and sometimes violent, although he never hit me or the kids, he breaks a lot of stuff. Yet he has never been to jail, seems to be a model citizen to those who don't know him as well as I do, and seems to be a good father, and was, in many ways, a great husband. It's hard to keep a mask that firmly in place all day every day for over a quarter century. I think in many ways, my ability to be his voyeur/assistant is the main glue that held us together. That, and not being the most observant person in the world. Since I have begun to really THINK and not just accept him as he is, well, the pieces of the puzzle finally are making sense. It's like trying to solve a Rubik's cube that's inside of a black velvet bag, with no peeking.

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  68. @UKan, that it did, my fine friend. Actually, I didn't want attention at the time that I took the overdose, I was sincerely just trying to die, and I almost succeeded. Sometimes I think about how many more pills it would have taken to accomplish it. I was in intensive care in ICU, but pulled out. I was also incredibly pissed when I woke up. But I am glad now that I lived. Most days.

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  69. You sound like my ex, without the kids. She would pull all this overdose and balcony dips shit on me all the time. Eventually I threw her out the door and her purse on top of her. Play for sympathy is the worse card you can pull on a sociopath. You will get nothing but attempt.

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  70. Contempt not attempt

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  71. Thanks for the advice, UKan! I hope never to need it again. That was my one and only pass at suicide, and I didn't threaten, warn or coerce. I just quietly took a bunch of cool pills. So, you're single??? LOL

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  72. Renfield, I can tell you are very new to beginning to understand this sociopathy thing.

    I wouldn't be surprised if you spent a bit of time at Lovefraud before you made it over here.

    I hope you will be able get past worrying about him and what his problem is and move on to doing the same with yourself. Blame goes to both of you, and you are the only thing in this world that you can control.

    Stick around.

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  73. No I'm getting married.
    You leaned on him too much for your emotional satisfaction. You became emotionally dependent early in the realtionship and gave him total control. Perhaps that's what you were looking for. Life on autopilot. That's not a bad thing if you can trust yourself enough to choose the right pilot.
    Here you are. Now you have to start from scratch. Instead of looking for a man to paint the cracks in the paint, maybe first you should get to know yourself better. That's what you should have done to begin with, but there's no use in regret.
    Killing yourself is pathetic. You didn't even think of your children. What kind of mother are you? Shape up.

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  74. Never heard of Lovefraud, but I will check it out. And yes, very new to the sociopathy thing. I needed to understand what happened with him, because only then can I understand myself. There was so much smoke, haze, cobwebs in our relationship, I was never allowed to know what was actually happening in my own life, but if you had asked me even one year ago, I would have told you we had a completely open and honest relationship based on mutual trust. LOL. So, yes, I need to see how I could have been so blind. I am no genius, but do have above-average intelligence, and do not generally "get played", nor do I think of myself as a doormat. I do comprehend that I am the only thing I can control, and don't want to go down this rabbit hole again. Thanks, Medusa. This blog is very helpful to me, in so many ways.

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  75. UKan, congratulations on your impending nuptials. You have me figured out. The shame card was an extra-cruel touch; well-played. I feel so dirty.
    Actually, I feel better and better; as I come to untangle the interplay between us, I am recognizing more of how things went down, and how much of it was under my control. I do need to get myself figured out, since we married when I was only 20, and I had no idea who either of us truly were.

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  76. I can't stand it when someone tries to get sympathy from me. I don't mean that it pisses me off when something happens to them that perhaps deserve sympathy, but when they come grovelling and bawling I want to kick them when they're down. Maybe it's instinctual. Maybe I don't like seeing someone I considered a friend to be so pathetic. This might directly tie in to why I don't like seeing other people cry.

    I can usually tell if someone is having a hard time. I've got no problem helping them out, and picking them up. When their weakness slips through the cracks in their armor, if they're actually a friend, I'll probably help them out. If they bleed all over my floor, that's when they've crossed the line.

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  77. You were used by this guy for 26 years, but your not the type of person who usually "gets played"?

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  78. You need to calm down, stop pointing the finger at everyone claiming they are a sociopath. True sociopaths are a rarity, it takes extensive interviews with a psychologist to determine if a person has the antisocial personality disorder, they will also interview people he knows on an intimate level.

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  79. Misanthrope, I think that he is the only person who could have done it. I was too close to him. I saw through everyone else. He's not the first S I have encountered, but maybe the "best". I think, too, that MY character flaws screwed me. I had a lot of hubris that I was helping him, healing him, showing him what love is, and just, in general, loving him so much better/deeper/harder than 99% of the women in the world love their husbands. Hubris.

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  80. Don't ask so many questions on him as much as you ask question on your own behaviour. He doesn't matter any more. He's gone. Now you need to ask why you chose him? Why did you need to feel safe? Why did you accept it for so long? Why did you need him? How did he make you feel that you miss right now? Why is that missing? When did it go missing?
    Write all your answers down as a self assessment.

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  81. stockholmsyndromeworld

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  82. Don't bother with Lovefraud, please.

    It's a good sign that you have somewhat skipped past the sort of blind victim finger-pointing mentality that exists over there.

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  83. Don't mistake the walk on a razor's edge for Stockholm Syndrome, anon.

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  84. She is obv still in love with her abuser.

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  85. I think it's an addiction, more than being still in love. And I am looking at Lovefraud, and although I can sympathize, yeah, a little nauseating, sometimes. I was very young when I chose him, he was/is very attractive, very sexual (same for me), he is very exciting and interesting, but most of all, I loved the way he seemed to love me. He seemed to love me with an all-encompassing love that meant that he never disparaged me in front of his buddies, never spoke ill of me to his family, always seemed to have my back, to be my best friend, and me his. Til he didn't. But it was all a lie, from the beginning. So, yeah, we were super young, but that kind of love just doesn't exist in nature. I just didn't realize how improbable it was yet. I thought I had it all. But my glass was half-empty and about to fall off the table. And when the cracks started to show, I just wanted back into the Matrix. I wanted to be lost again.

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  86. You know the drill, the good stuff was really good, the bad stuff was truly terrible, and in between, the fake apologies, hollow promises, and false ego stroking. Classic abuse.

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  87. What makes you think he had ASPD?

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  88. Ignorance is bliss, the truth hurts, and all that shit.

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  89. Glib Anon, I could monopolize this blog all night with tales of it, but if you look at PCL-R, even though I am not trained, and probably biased, informally, unofficially, qualified all to Hell and back, he scores at least a 22. Bare minimum. Pathological liar, sexual compulsive, constant manipulation, glib, grandiose, shallow, cold, on and on down the list. He does NOT have a history of juvenile delinquency, he is more a "good-guy" S, who will protect and defend his image til the cows come home, and he's really good at it. Refers to his Mask, and being like a stone. He knows what he is. He hasn't admitted it to me, but he knows.

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  90. "Glib Anon"... lol, right up there with "DidHeDiedGuy"

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  91. I suppose not all psychopaths are as sadistic as myself. You have fun with you're "fun guy". If you had have ran into me, i would have reduced you to a whimpering mess.

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  92. You people really can't tell when you're being played by a poster can you?

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  93. Medusa, do you know where i can read "the sociopath next door" online?

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  94. Anonymous 5:57pm, otherwise known as "The Only One Who Most Certainly Knows Or Would Like To Atleast Appear To Be The Only One Who Knows The Truth That No One Else Can See Because It Gives A False Sense Of Power And Omniscience".


    Dude, you should really know by now that it hardly matters most of the time who here is real and who is not.

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  95. Anon, nope. Haven't even read it, and have little interest in doing so.

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  96. What is the truth then?

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  97. Its irrelevant what he is. The truth about yourself is important. What does it matter if he's a sociopath? He's not in the picture in her life or on this forum.

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  98. "I'd like to see how that fits into the evolutionary theory of tears, or maybe the evolutionary theory of sociopaths."

    Maybe there is nothing evolutionary about sociopaths. Maybe sociopathy is a mutation that has merely survived due to a loophole in our current culture of "me me me" that may be as doomed to fail as the Roman Empire was.

    Or maybe sociopathy is an extreme symptom of an as yet undiscovered virus that has slowly been spreading for thousands of years, gradually turning humans from empathic collaborators into cold hearted cannibalistic predators. ("Mad Human Disease"?)

    At any rate it is commonly assumed that evolution goes in a more or less linear direction, and that any given species is at the apex of its evolutionary development, so that extinction is only due to cataclysmic events or other major environmental changes. But some scientists now believe this may not be true, that some species merely reach a dead end, having favored some characteristics too much in favor of others that may have ensured survival.

    After all, we wouldn't be the first humanoid species to come to a dead end, but homo sapiens may be the very first species to consciously ignore its own impending doom.

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  100. Here is what I don't appreciate. Sociopath fixation.

    This relates to that ponce, Francois Tremblay.

    Human beings are a bunch of bastards. Empathy, love, et al are feelings shared with those they care about. Not even the ones they are close to. If you're not in that circle, you're fucked.

    People are perfectly capable of being back-stabbing, unapologetic assholes, and are quite capable anything down the moral slope.

    You women come here everyday, bitching and whinging about your ex and how bad they treated you and how power hungry they were. Yet, you don't say a fucking beep about any of the other asshole exs you've had. And you have had them. But no, let's fixate on the people with a medical difference in which they have no empathy or conscience, as opposed to the fuckheads who do and still screw you over. Most of the "victims" that come here or go to Lovefraud have had someone who is simply immature and abusive, not a sociopath. Stop passing the buck.

    The problem is you. If you can't figure out what's wrong with you, you'll always be asking for it.

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  101. At any rate it is commonly assumed that evolution goes in a more or less linear direction

    This is precisely why I have a problem with people who believe in the concept of 'progess'.

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  102. Even if they aren't here for the right reasons, they may be in the right place to figure out what's wrong with themselves.

    Socios are quite good at figuring out what's wrong with people. They just use that information to gain control over people, not help them with their issues.

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  103. My x socio boyfriend used to warn me than females crying was a huge turnoff for men. It was a strange warning since I never cry..so I keep a small photo of dead kittens that can make me cry on demand and I tested him once and started crying for no reason. He found it confusing as it wasn't about him or anything he could identify and rage set-in. That's when I discovered that pulling out odd emotions at the wrong time was a great antedote to his control game.

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  106. Gaining some measure of control on someone, and helping them out, is not mutually exclusive.

    Sociopaths can be enthusiastic about advice. They may not have the purest of intent, but that does not exclude them from helping someone, or necessitate controlling them.

    I have few people I've truly cared about, but I've helped out almost complete strangers for no conscious ulterior motives.

    In many cases, for me, it's not about grabbing control from someone. It's about being given control, willingly.

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  107. TNP,

    I don't come on here and bitch about my ex. I comment on how I relate to what's being said or my experience but it's not said with a bitchy tone to it. Maybe sometimes but it's rare. I know what my problems are and why I selected that guy. It's been made very clear to me.

    As far as other men go that I've been with I can't think of anything worth saying. I could complian about my ex husband but he's not a sociopath...he's a screwball.

    That's not nice what you said...lol

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  108. I'm interesting in knowing, what makes sociopaths go into the deep end, and become serial murderers. Any opinions? Are these sociopaths, a different breed?

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  109. I think TNP was stating that there are better sites for that Grace. We don't need people bitching at us on here, we have enough haters out there.

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  110. @Anon: Not all serial killers are sociopaths. You should be checking out Serial Killer sources if you want to know more about them.

    @Grace: I wasn't pointing the finger at a specific person. You've been here long enough to know exactly what I'm talking about. The fact that you took it as a personal attack on you specifically is disappointing.

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  111. You talk about having respect for you're dad and the ones you keep close, right? And there are people who rape, torture and kill their victims, have no respect for anyone. And you are a psychopath, and they aren't? It doesn't add up, at all.

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  112. well i hate you all! you're all a bunch of psycho monsters.
    Hmm, ;)

    Anyway, that Francois dude seems to have totally missed the point, lost the plot, or both.
    Maybe he's foreign and doesn't quite understand the meaning of being mentally abnormal. I guess it could be seen as an offence to many. I guess for me, i've sort of made myself at home with it.

    oh well, i do hope he/she comes back. I'd LOVE to talk with an anarchist.

    I might go to his site and make nice and coax him back.

    :)

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  113. He confused the word "abnormal" with the word "disordered", I think.

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  114. I thought you were a compassionate person, notme?

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  115. Anon, no, i'm not compassionate at all. Whatever gave you that idea?

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  116. reincarnation of mary belle...

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  117. No, Anon. My father, and those I am close to, are mine. When you violate them, you're disrespecting me.

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  118. mary belle the killer?
    ooh, don't say that. That doesn't sit well with me.
    I am nice unfortunately, i was joshing.

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  119. I could see how/why TNP is offended, actually. These exes were assholes but not necessarily socios. I used to call people who operate behind the scenes passive aggressive and now I call them socios. Then come rageful, overly aggressive ones, and I am ready to call them socios as well. Basically anyone who don't care is on the spectrum, and if one is an ex he is not caring one way or the other and sure enough I call that a socio. None of my socio exes were anything like UKan, Loki or TNP, and I got the feeling my attitude stopped them in their tracks without even realizing. I was very lucky. Now that I understand socios better I really wish I had a chance to date one. ME should get into match-making.

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  120. Yes, but the side you see here of UKan, Loki and TNP is probably not quite the side you would get while dating them. Unless you are a special snowflake.

    Theory vs application. Private vs public.

    The difference is the anonymity, and the text here is in a vacuum.

    Or some shit.

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  122. oh damn it's not working again.
    I'm Milena but something seems to have wrong.
    Medusa, does it say profile not available when you click on my name?

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  123. Yep. Do you want it available?

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  125. How I act in a relationship is deemed in how that person is, and how I form to them after creating a mold. I can no more theorize how I'd be in a relationship with someone than you can. I could bring light to known tendencies, but that would be the extent. I've been a very different person for my partners, long-term or not. There's never been a complete apathetic break into abuse. If it was going down that road in the first place, I've already left. I of course, can only speak for myself.

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  126. I don't think you want to date a sociopath in paticular, as much as you want to date someone who knows themselves well. I will be the first to say dating me is not a easy experience. You have to be ready to throw every rule, law, and norm out the window, and be comfortable knowing I'm sucking the life out of people for our benefit. The upside is my girlfriend never wants for anything and I understand her deeper than anyone could ever hope to.

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  127. thanks Medusa. No, i'm just trying to figure this thing out. It doesn't seem to want to post my comments except for that one above.
    i think this one should work

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  128. Yay, hooray for me, finally i have an account!
    :D

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  129. and i just had to delete that comment for fun.

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  130. Already you're embracing your self-destructive personality :P

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  131. yeah, lol.
    it's a bit weird. I wanted to change my name for a while cos notme was getting tedious, but i might change it back at some point.
    I grew quite fond of it.
    haha! at least those pesky trolls can be kept in line this way.
    we shall see. hmm

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  132. Why don't any of you vlog?

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  133. I like the name a lot. I have a Greek friend with a similar name, with the vowels switched. Melina.

    I'd assume yours would be pronounced "Mill-AY-nah" though.

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  134. Or maybe she is Slavic, I don't even know.

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  135. Aerianne is pronounced like "Mary Ann", without the "M", of course.

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  136. hey thanks Medusa. And Aerianne! Yes, i sure know how to take my time don't i?

    Yes, Medusa, that's how it's pronounced. I feel like a pillock using it cos it's a nickname i got. But it popped into my head when i was setting up my new account cos i couldn't think of anything else. Some guy said i'm like Milena, who's some famous woman somewhere. So, yeah, that's why i might change back soon - i like my anonymity. Well, this comment negates all that. But that's me, quite silly.

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  137. i think Milena is a slavic woman. Her story's on google but i haven't read anything about her. For all i know, she could be quite unpleasant. hehe.

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  138. my other comment vanished. Nice to see things don't change.
    These trash cans ruin the aesthetic of the place.

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  139. I guess I can be hard to deal with. It's more of admitting it than a revelation, heh.

    I remember one ex of mine who liked how much of a straight-lace gal she was. So I convinced her to commit a somewhat minor felony. It was victimless, but when I jokingly told her, "Congratulations, you're a felon now," she was completely miffed, and then felt intensely guilty after the fact for something she regarded to be somewhat innocuous, and only slightly naughty beforehand.

    It taught me that being manipulative should be something for your own satisfaction, and that once you break the veil of manipulation for some form of gloating, a level of trust is broken if there was one to begin with. Successful manipulation in a relationship relies on being as subtle as possible. Heavy handed manipulation has its place, and can be very effective, but it breeds resentment.

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  140. Notable, the more you keep opening you're mouth, the more people want to put their foot in it, or a grenade.

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  141. why doesn't anyone here vlog?
    asks the anonymous guy.
    Who would you like to see vlogging?
    the socios?

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  142. Yeah, if they are as charming and all knowing as they claim to be why don't they vlog? Notable isn't a criminal, so why not?

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  143. thanks Aerianne btw, my earlier thanks was eaten up.

    Is that your real name? It's very nice.

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  144. Thank you. It's not my legal name.

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  145. I do not want to see anyone's face. It would ruin everything.

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  146. I enjoyed seeing 1/4 of your face, Medusa~

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  147. haha, it's funny that Medusa.
    I wonder what it would ruin?

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  148. It's like reading and making up the faces of all the characters.

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  149. does it feel like you're talking to someone other than notme. I feel like a different person and that notme has died or something. hehe.

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  150. It would ruin the vague blobby shadows I have in my head that represent the people here, by introducing details.

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  151. You see, none of you are real.

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  152. No, it doesn't feel like talking to another person.

    It's like I see "notme" written in a different language. That's all.

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  153. Some people I have faces for. Others, not so much faces but maybe auras.

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  154. oh, that's good to know Aerianne. (that i'm still notme in your head)

    I think i have vague faces for a couple, but yes, auras isn't a bad word for it. I can picture you two somewhat and create around your pics, but that's about it.
    lol, what a funny discussion.

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  155. I tend to make people better looking in my imagination than they end up being irl.

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  156. ^ another reason why vlogs would ruin things and cause awkwardness.

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  157. lol. :D

    I think i do the same. But not always. Sometimes I have a bad picture in my head. It's funny, the internet.

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  158. i'm very tired. Off to have a ciggy and then bedtime.

    Night ladies :)

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  159. You and me both Aerianne, and not just physically.

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  160. "I either basically ignore it, reflexively cry (the same way I would reflexively cough) or get angry at them if they are crying as some sort of remonstrance for my bad behavior."..

    Hmm. I wonder why it would make M.E angry when they are crying at his behaviour, isnt anger a secondary emotion for fear? Wouldnt that in some way mean their tears are bothering you because you feel a little "guilty" that you've done something to cause them pain? But wouldnt that be a "conscience",which would be quite alien to a true socio,Or is it possibly a more selfish anger that you know these emotions are something you fail to comprehend and it somehow makes you feel flawed? Just wondering...

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  161. reflexively cry

    Looks like empathy, for all intents and purposes.

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  162. Amazing how the 'experts' immediately draw the inference that women are 'weakened' by emotion. Oh, those silly creatures, so tied down by their feelings!

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  163. When I see people crying, I often assume they're just trying to get sympathy from others. I often see crying used as a way of a person getting their own way. For example, let's say a kid in the playground goes up to another kid and pushes them over then they kid who has been pushed gets up and belts the other kid. The kid who has been belted cries, the adult comes along and says, "blah blah..not nice etc.." the kid who did the belting says.."but he/she pushed me"..adult sides with crying kid. I personally would tell the kid who was crying to cut it out and hard the fuck up and if they can't take it don't dish it out. The end.

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  164. Now THAT is lack of empathy. I can understand in that situation, if the tears are being used as a manipulation by someone who illicited a certain response, but not all tears are manipulations, some people just truly are more sensitive than others & some times the emotional response is legit. And the "hard the fuck up" outlook is on the border of being sociopathic because of the lack of insight into the fact that this other person is feeling something and you just dont have the capacity to understand their response.

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  165. haha..yeah...okay. I was however talking about the situations where people are clearly being manipulated as per written example given...I don't supposed actually reading the comments would be out of the question prior to posting eh? You're not Canadian are you?!

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  166. Lol. Yes, I am Canadian. How did you come to that conclusion?

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  167. So, how about if your socio boyfriend cries in front of you and gets upset if you look at him? Had that happen...thought it odd. Looking him in the eyes, outside of the bedroom, was not comfortable to him (he was partially blind in one eye due to a childhood accident)...he'd freak and tell me to stop looking at him. I can't remember crying in front of him except when my father died.

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