Saturday, February 28, 2015

Raised by wolves

I think this was an interesting situation, if true, from a comment:

Can someone tell me why a psychopath/sociopath wants to be in a relationship?

I was addicted to one before I realised my entire family, except me, are sociopaths. I treated them as I would treat any person, assumed they had different characters to me, and that they had issues. I worked around it, expected nothing back and encouraged them for the good they did.

Research on websites tells me sociopaths seek relationships as a mask for what they are. But I never saw my family giving a shit what people thought. I thought they did it because they actually loved (or in the correct terminology, approved of and enjoyed immensely) the company of their companion. I thought that the marriage was pretty good because they seemed like best friends. Who enjoyed fighting and drama, but ultimately, needed each other.

I am super super empathic and always saw good in them and they did their best for me.
The guy I fell for, I read him in the way that I had learned to read the only people around me. I saw love. He of course moved on quickly but if I see him now I know I still am important to him and not in the way that he wants to hurt me. It's almost like he's accepted the differences between us but I don't know if I imagine it but there is a deep longing inside each of us to be able to play that role, he as my man and me as his woman. When I am with him, I feel that is the role I am destined to play. It's the only one I know how to play.

I cut off my family because of the abuse and feel such a deep depression without them. I can't stand normal people because I've been raised not to act like a dramatic idiot. I only know the sociopath way. I love so much about it. But they always fall short because they are narcissists. They miss information or are not willing to do tasks that would achieve what they want. 

I God dammit have all of the same traits. Maybe that's why I love this guy. I feel like nobody will ever be able to understand me like him. Nobody will want to have kids with me when they know I have the sociopath gene. I've been targeted by other colleagues and wanted to die. I don't want my kids doing that to someone.

I guess I need closure.. I felt like although he didn't attach to me in the traditional way, he changed his behaviours around me. Surely that is his way of saying he wants me to be near? 

70 comments:

  1. Being in a relationship with the wrong person can be an agonizing drain, but with the right person it can your life better.

    Sociopaths don't go through life with a copy of "Might Is Right" in their back pocket to refer to in case they start having feelings for someone.

    Some of them want to get married and have kids. they want someone to grow old with.

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  2. Is M.E. afraid that no one would want kids with her? Not so! Plenty of
    people would want kids with M.E.
    M.E. FALSELY believes that she is a Sociopath. She is no such thing!
    No sociopath exhibts the control she has. M.E. merely needs to cast out a reel.'She would get plenty of bites on the hook.
    She has said it is her mission to alter the way people think about sociopaths.
    It ain't gonna happen!
    M.E. has toiled long enough. She's secured her material future. Now is the time
    for love, or to learn what love is. The mask can safely be removed. She will NOT DIE. She will LIVE. Probably for the first time in her life!

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  3. "Classic" psychos want close relations because they like to have people around them to debase, to steal from and to "own".

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  4. As Damage indicated, being with the "right" person can make like better - more fun, interesting, profitable, comfortable, good nookie - whatever. People bonded to you can be a good narc source if that's what you want or need at the moment - I see this quite a bit actually (the "posse" or "fan club" around a powerful socio).

    I wouldn't worry about being a spinster on account of your genetics - if you really are OK with living with people on the sociopathic spectrum, that won't be an issue (might even make you a bit more attractive). Besides that, there are plenty of empathic types that will be able to relate to your situation and you can bond over it.

    As for kids, much has to do with the emotional and interpersonal skill you teach and model for them. You can give them a sort of moral compass by showing them that "people like to be around you and do things for you when you are nice to them." I'm having to do some of that with my son - I don't think it will be an issue for my daughter.

    As has been said many times, genetics is not destiny. In most cases you also need to create a difficult early environment to foster the anger that leads to the destructive behavior you describe.

    A bit off topic, but perhaps tangential, here's a gal that might fit in around here and have a few things to add...when the dust settles for her anyway. (this story sounds somehow familiar...)

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/27/teen-encouraged-friend-to-commit-suicide_n_6771964.html

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    1. HI, HLH. Wow, what a story!

      She told him to get back in, lol. And, look how beautiful she is. I can't believe her lawyer thinks the charges will be dropped. I also can't believe her bail was set at $2,500 only. If they canprove without a doubt that she was the one sending the texts she should definitely have manslaughter charges. I don't see much difference between what she did and the wife who physically pushed her husband off the cliff. The difference lies in the nature of the motive and the tool used to kill and the level of participation of the victim, not enough to drop charges.

      What did you think?

      I so wish I had the full text exchange between the two. This girl can make a lot of money by sticking to her evil nature, by sharing her thought processes. Her jail stay could be reality TV (a fictitious one, if she writes her story). See a story like this by ME certainly would have made a commercial difference.

      The only thing this girl screwed up with is written records. She could have done the same by calling him. Texting is dangerous, lol...

      Her past interest in mental health is also something else, in total conflict in terms of the mask she was putting. She sure is a wolf. What a wolf. I wonder if the new black, orange, girls would keep her face as smooth if she ends up in jail.

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    2. Correction... Not past interest, she used his death to raise funds for mental health afterwards. UFB!

      Who wants blood?

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    3. Hi Sceli,

      Nice to hear from you - I hope all is well. 8)~

      Is she somewhat culpable? Given what has been printed, yeah, she probably significantly contributed to the kid checking out.

      The text transcript would be informative and will likely turn up on the web at some point. There is actually a lot we don't know - it could be that she really did think he was just faking and playing some game. Finds out later it's not and hilarity ensues.

      LOL!!! Yeah, I thought the fund raising was a little...um...interesting. I can, however hear it being used as some sort of display of guilt -

      In all likelihood she's a "member of the tribe," but I can imagine scenarios that could explain what's been printed - unlikely, maybe, but...

      It would, however, make for an interesting story...say, doesn't someone on this forum write? ;p~

      Delete
  5. I don't know about man-woman relations with a socio, but as people or friends, it seems that socio like to have people "around", and will be more close or not regarding their mood, needs, and especially the position of the other one...is he still under my power or escaping...
    But they don't seem to like very close relations, because I guess they would be discovered too quickly, and they would have to wear the mask and play a role, all the time...which seems exhausting...

    As an empath, I now avoid any too close relations with socios, the relation must remain a little distant, with up and downs for contacts, and not dig for much personal things...except if it is coming from the socio itself...then I listen...

    It looks like they understand with the time that I can't be owned by them, and we can then start a little more balanced relation...I would not say a normal one.

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    1. What I find exhausting about empathic types is the need they seem to have to connect with me and the machinations of trying "draw me out."

      To use the well worn (and somewhat timely) color perception - it's what I imagine a color blind person would feel like with people constantly gushing over Monet's paintings. At this point it's just tedious to talk about - I prefer people who can just accept that this is what I have to give - good or bad - if you keep digging, you're just gonna annoy me.

      I am particularly un-gifted musically - both rhythm and tone. Club music is about as complex a beat as I can handle...on a good day. I get the same feeling of frustration and annoyance when people insist that they can "teach" me to hear the beat. They are simply asking me for something outside my ability to experience.

      If you need "that connection" then you should avoid people on this spectrum. It does sound like you have a more "enlightened" view and I compliment you on that. 8)~

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    2. I have a good sense of rhythm. It isn't about "hearing" the beat so much as it is about feeling it... Giving yourself up to it, along with any trace of self-consciousness.

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    3. "along with any trace of self-consciousness."

      that is so important it can't be stressed enough

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    4. [face in hands shaking slowly back and forth]

      You two crack me up - OK, in the interest of explaining it ONE MORE TIME...

      Yeah, yeah, yeah - I've heard it all before. The closest analog I have found is stuttering. I can hold a few cycles but it falls apart quickly. Sometimes, if I'm very relaxed and focused, I can follow the beat of a song I am listening to. Somehow, "the process" falls apart - it is the only way I can explain it. I've never understood what people mean by "feeling" the beat - I have never felt it.

      It's a bit of a drag for me, because I really love music, but I find trying to do anything more than appreciate it frustrating. That's kind of unique for me. I envy people who can play -

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    5. HLH, Monet was an "Impressionist" artist, a name he wore on a badge of honor.

      Aside from that, Monet is my favorite painter. My first viewing of a real Monet masterpiece was at the age of twelve. The colors had a dual effect on me. On one hand, they felt magical, and on the other hand, the colors themselves felt like a forbidden place to me (also because it was forbidden to touch the paintings in the room of the museum which added to my impression). At that time, I saw "Nymphéas" or one of the "Water-Lilies" in the series. Then, at the age of twenty-three, I held a short-lived position in a prestigious art gallery where I did something "bad," so to speak. I touched a Monet and felt its colors in all of their uniqueness.

      "The motif's essential is the mirror of water whose aspect is constantly being modified by the changing sky reflected in it, and which imbues it with life and movement." Monet

      "La Promenade, la Femme à L'ombrelle" or "The Walk, Woman with a Parasol" is my favorite painting. Because of my inner wish, I could gaze at it forever.

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    6. HLH, In essence, feeling the beat of music is tantamount to feeling love (any type of love, whether that is love for a parent, a partner, a child or a sibling, making my point universal). One can't have one without the other, and life would be dark and lifeless. Listen to Ravel's "Bolero," (the long version, that is) and then tell me some things about your reaction. It would be a demonstrable experience.

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    7. Anon 9:20: I don't profess to have a deep understanding of art. I do, however, know that Monet's painting are beautiful, colorful, and well known, which is why I picked him - Water Lilly's is the only title I know.

      An even more likely scenario than trying to see a Monet in grey scale would be to make red and green equivalent - the more common presentation. I wonder if they would have the same brilliance.

      @Anon9:40: I am quite moved by music - all sorts. I can sit and feel all sorts of wonderful feelings. The trouble comes when I attempt to externalize what I am feeling - there is a disconnect and I have to work hard to compensate for it - any distraction and it falls apart.

      There are actually a couple of measurable issues at play - one of which is that I can't discriminate beats that are close together (or tones, for that matter) as well as most people. I am on a far end of that spectrum.

      And, there's something just not wired right when I try to externalize the "rhythm." That's why stuttering is the analog - a stuttering person knows exactly what they want to say. It's in getting the words out that the problem kicks in.

      Delete
    8. A,

      Good comment! Discovering your rhythm, and actually feeling the beat of music is the most original, "untaught" experience. Composing your own rhythm, notes and beat, and bringing it out there, is the direct opposite of the most negative projection of oneself. Fitly.

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    9. HLH, Monet's paintings are everything that you've described and more. The feeling each one gives is distinctive and full of life. Since you seem to be familiar with "Water Lilies," it can be rather revelatory when viewing it under the microscope or through X-ray imaging. In one case, which became an intriguing installation, it shows how Monet painted an agapanthus plant beneath a cluster of water lilies. http://info.umkc.edu/unews/a-closer-look-at-monets-water-lilies/

      An agapanthus plant. Who would've thought?
      Of course, there is a disconnect between the name and the aspect of the plant. What do you imagine when hearing the word agapanthus? Can you externalize into words what you picture as an image in your mind?

      Delete
    10. Thank you anon 10:01.

      Anon 9:40.... Merging into a beat, and allowing it to carry you may be comparable to good sex, but love is far more complex. Like sex, dancing doesn't have to involve any emotion at all, although it usually triggers lust in me, personally.

      I think people overemphasize the emotional aspect of love. Feelings can be fleeting, but true love encompasses commitment and choice.

      Delete
    11. A,

      There are different types of dances, and each one has its characteristic and particular triggers. As a train of thought or even flowing with an idea about it in a more artistic sense, take, for instance, and compare the evolution of dances/dancing throughout the ages. I believe that each one of us can possibly place himself or herself in a specific age or era in time, suitable to our own style and connected to your comment on it. I understand your point, though, but what I have always felt is that each one of us identifies with a certain beat or a flow that has its place in its evolution. While not aiming for a particular order, since there isn't one when it comes to this subject, some of them are the Classic and Postclassic eras, the Baroque times, the Progressive Era, the Petrine Era, the Age of Discovery, The Postmodern Age, the Atomic Age, the Vedic Period, the Romantic Era, the Golden Age of Piracy, the Iron Age, the Gupta Empire, the Space Age, and the Age of Enlightenment. Having said that, each one of them had its fleeting emotion and "flash in the pan," because, as we all know, each one has passed.

      Of course, like dancing to a beat versus an original composition, lust versus love are two different areas altogether. And you're quite right in saying that people overemphasize the emotional aspect of love. Love is not an emotion, because an emotion, like feelings, can indeed be fleeting. I believe that love as an authentic composition is the most complex phenomenon. I say phenomenon because of its stable originality. It surely entails commitment and choice, and unlike a transitory or fading dance of lust, love is deep-rooted and solid. It also encompasses respect and trust.

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    12. Very interesting perspective. I've never studied dance, or experienced it as anything more than a purely visceral indulgence that I like to engage in from time to time. Are you a musician?

      I agree with your statement concerning love. Beautifully stated.

      Delete
    13. Thank you, A. I studied dance theory, and while I'm not a professional, I find that dancing from time to time can be an engaging and pleasant experience.

      In response to your question, I would have to say "artist," since it encompasses more than one area.

      Delete
  6. Having control of feeble minded hoodrats IS NOT POWER. Remember what I said about globaly

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  7. So where are we going with this?

    Ask not for whom the bell tolls.

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  8. So what the fuck do u want then?

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    Replies
    1. You talking to me, asshole? I didn't think so. Do you know who you are talking to besides your mirror?

      Delete
  9. Did u guys practise the FUTB escape?

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  10. A pussy bitch that thinks they are powerful in a country with no power

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  11. My partnership with my husband is the first successful long term relationship I have ever had. Even so, I am almost certain it wouldn't have lasted if I hadn't gotten unexpectedly knocked up so quickly.

    Our relationship works for several reasons:

    1) He is very strong, and willing to challenge me. He will not allow me to manipulate him, as I had so many other guys before him. He confronts me on all my shit. In our first real fight, he pushed me, and I punched him in the face- but he still didnt break up with me. We quarrel a lot, but we respect each other. Being respected is of tantamount importance to me.

    2) His mind is razor-sharp. In many ways, he's smarter than me.

    3) He is my best friend. I trust him with my life. He knows what I am. He has acknowledged it openly, but he still accepts me. He can deal with my family, and loves them for who they are. Being able to handle someone like my father is no small feat.

    4) The sex is incredible. Mind-blowing awesome. This is going to sound superficial, but that was critically important for me- more so than many things. He doesn't give me *everything* I want (he is very possessive and insists on strict monogamy) but he does give me everything I need.

    5) He's an excellent father.

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    Replies
    1. A,

      I see being in a long-term relationship as a continuous, commoving discovery that has no end. Some people would disagree with me for a couple of reasons, but it can be a continuous discovery without an end (I am referring to the discovery aspect of it in addition to the relationship per se) if the partners are right for each other, and if they make it so. In thinking about it, I like being the one to make it so, but every relationship is different, and that is the distinct beauty of it. You’re speaking of pregnancy, but having referred to it as being “knocked up,” it doesn’t sound as though you’re exactly “peppy” about it. I see unique beauty in a pregnant woman.

      1. Being strong and willing to challenge you is as important as being respected. I could write a book about these three symbiotic qualities.

      2. Although some would disagree with me, since it has happened on a few occasions for one reason or another, I strongly believe that a razor-sharp mind is the secret ingredient to it all, and when it pairs with acumen compatibility between a couple, the magic of the bond becomes endless, and it enhances everything else that is already present, encompassing a priceless heart and an open soul.

      3. “He is my best friend.”
      It would not be a long-term relationship without this invaluable, rare bond.

      “I trust him with my life.”

      This is the most sublime belief and feeling you’ve mentioned in your comment. Trust per se, and trusting someone with your life, is a gift [with strong emphasis]. There is nothing more solid than this, and I am always moved when hearing a person or a couple saying so.

      “He knows what I am. He has acknowledged it openly, but he still accepts me.”

      And yet another gift.

      “He can deal with my family, and loves them for who they are. Being able to handle someone like my father is no small feat.”

      Some people have that uncommon talent.

      4. Being more than happy about the first point you’ve made is extraordinary, particularly because it doesn’t happen often.

      Needless to say, strict monogamy holds everything together in ways that are specific to each relationship.

      It depends on what you mean here, since you haven't provided more details. Having everything that you need is great, but receiving everything that you want is greater. My point has nothing to do with those things that are not materialistic and/or a part of the material "world."

      5. Being an excellent father is priceless, and yet another gift.
      Having a gifted life is beatific.

      Delete
    2. My point has nothing to do with those things that are not materialistic and/or a part of the material "world."

      Correction: 1. omit nothing or 2. omit not.
      This is why it's important to "proofread." A small thing can mean so much.

      Delete
    3. Are you copying again from web sites?

      Delete
    4. [squint] ...oh yeah - I thought they looked familiar...

      Delete
  12. Replies
    1. About what? The topic at hand, or the fact Having control of feeble minded hoodrats IS NOT POWER!!!!!!!!!!!

      No... Nobody cares, or even remotely "Remembers what you said about globaly"!!!!!!!!!

      Why, you ask? 'Cause I'm bored, and you're obviously a powerless pussy bitch who thinks you're powerful.

      Tell me... Do you like what you see in the mirror? XD

      Delete
    2. How is being a badass alpha male powerless, one might suggest since every man seeks physical dominance, that the most physically dominant man has the most power.

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    3. Oh. You're one of "those" guys. Haha!

      Badass alpha males don't cut it in environments where the pen is mightier than the sword, unless they *also* have badass alpha brains. Clearly, in this department, you are not well-endowed.

      One can't help but wonder if that's true in other areas, too, considering your transparent need to overcompensate.

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    4. The physically dominant often have the psychologically dominant puling their strings.

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    5. Indeed. And what fun it is. XD

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    6. U r intellectually inferior to me so how r u pulling my strings. Especially when a man isn't thinking with the right " head". Do u want to pen fence and see who comes out on top? U r succeeding based upon ur ASSOCIATIONS not ur intellect!! But nice try tho. LBC!!! Hahaha

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    7. "Intellectually superior" folks are generally able to produce coherent thoughts. You can't even punctuate a sentence correctly- thereby confirming for everyone that *both* your heads are rather small. :)

      Delete
    8. Lol at least ur clever enough to make me laugh. LBC its like BBC haha

      Delete
  13. If everyone close to you is a "sociopath," maybe you are just a drama queen.

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  14. It is no longer amusing. M.E. is on the downside of 30. Even the wide
    eyed hippies from the 60's settled down, when they crossed the 30's
    threshold. It's time for M.E. to find the love of her life. Will she REVEAL to this
    person that she wrote this blog or her book? She must. A life of lies, hiding, and
    deceit is a WASTED life. M.E. must make herself as vulnerable as she did when she cried on her girlfriend's shoulder, as a youth. M.E. must not be like
    Mr. Spock. Life is to short for that. M.E. must find sustinance on a couch with
    the love of her life.

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    Replies
    1. Yes. M.E. should definitely stop practicing law and writing books to derive "sustinance" on a couch with a good man and/or a carton of ice cream! I'm sure she just needs a husband and a good fucking cry to stop being *who she is*.~

      And I am equally sure that she is every bit as impressed by your expertise on how she ought to be living her life as I am.

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    2. A,

      I understand your point. While I am not speaking on behalf of M.E., and I would not want it to be taken as such by anyone, a true writer [emphasis added] or a published author, if applicable, would never stop writing (books, articles, blogs, personal projects, etc.). Of course, while I don't mean this literally, it would be tantamount to ending one's life. I strongly believe that for a true writer, it would no longer be called living. While there is a difference between a profession and a calling/passion (a calling/passion is much stronger in its intensity and natural tendencies), there are people who feel in a similar way about their chosen professions, whether those areas comprise the field of law, medicine, philosophy, teaching or psychology.

      Despite the mere opinions of others, always being who you are is essential. There is no other way.

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    3. Continued from 4:07 PM

      One can have a husband or a wife and be a successful writer or attorney at the same time. The same applies to other professions or personal endeavors.

      Delete
  15. I'm either a Narcissist or a high-functioning sociopath, depending on how the lines are drawn, and I don't really want to be in a romantic or sexual or otherwise intimate relationship.

    I am in my late 30s and am fairly professionally successful. I have a career that gives me a title that sounds really cool, where I don't have to do a whole lot, where people have to obey me within my professional world, and where the people that I don't have control over in my professional life can be won over with charm. I get higher marks from my superiors than I deserve because I am charming, amoral, and very intelligent. I have figured out a way to ensure that I will have a steady stream of financial resources coming to me on a regular basis for the rest of my life.

    I live in a very sterile urban apartment and have no "loved ones," per se. I deliberately moved as far away as possible from my family when I was younger without really understanding why I was running away from them, essentially. I don't really want to be close to anyone and I keep a fan club of fair weather friends to hang out with for entertainment and to seem "normal." Now that I am in my late 30s and established, people are starting to ask questions about why I won't settle down, why I don't have a girlfriend or wife, why I don't want a family, or spend the holidays with anyone. People think it's odd, and a part of me wants to find a wife to essentially "fill the role" that people expect me to fill.

    I don't really need sex and I prefer auto-stimulation with pornography as a stimulant. I find that sex with another person is more trouble than it's worth, and I guess for most people it's really about being close to someone else, which I don't need. When I'm close to someone physically I either feel nothing or I feel trapped. I don't want kids or pets or anything I have to take care of.

    I do get lonely and bored and I want attention or companionship on occasion. I think I would get bored with any one person if they were around for too long though. I get occasional desires to be close to someone but it goes away quickly.

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    1. Imperator,

      I am the same Anon who wrote the comments at 8:23 AM and 1:05 PM. As you can see, our views on love, being in an intimate relationship, and professional life/goals are quite different.

      “I have a career that gives me a title that sounds really cool, where I don't have to do a whole lot, where people have to obey me within my professional world, and where the people that I don't have control over in my professional life can be won over with charm. I get higher marks from my superiors than I deserve because I am charming, amoral, and very intelligent.”

      I would never have a professional life/career as you have described, because I truly like using my brain to achieve a lot without being amoral, or without having to act in a charming way to achieve success. People don’t “obey” in a professional environment. It is their choice to be there, and I find your statement rather inappropriate. My career has changed, and I am presently working on a project which will make me more than “fairly” successful.

      “I live in a very sterile urban apartment and have no "loved ones," per se. I deliberately moved as far away as possible from my family when I was younger without really understanding why I was running away from them, essentially. I don't really want to be close to anyone and I keep a fan club of fair weather friends to hang out with for entertainment and to seem "normal." Now that I am in my late 30s and established, people are starting to ask questions about why I won't settle down, why I don't have a girlfriend or wife, why I don't want a family, or spend the holidays with anyone. People think it's odd, and a part of me wants to find a wife to essentially "fill the role" that people expect me to fill.”

      If you could understand your reasons for moving away from your family, you would be able to understand yourself better and then work on those relationships. I value family, and I am close to all of my family members. Not being close to anyone, including your friends, sounds like a lonely life to me, and calling them “a fan club of fair weather friends” that you only “hang out with for entertainment and to seem ‘normal’,” is a part of that experience/thinking which is unhealthy for you. Having said that, you can change it by looking inwardly, and by gaining insight about yourself and others.

      Delete
    2. To Imperator - continued...

      I believe that being in a loving and long-lasting relationship is a personal choice, and being in love takes trust, genuineness and understanding. I, for one, do want to get married and to have a family. Being a husband or a wife is not just having a “role to fill,” as you have phrased it. It means wanting to be there, and it encompasses love, authenticity and commitment.

      “I don't really need sex and I prefer auto-stimulation with pornography as a stimulant. I find that sex with another person is more trouble than it's worth, and I guess for most people it's really about being close to someone else, which I don't need. When I'm close to someone physically I either feel nothing or I feel trapped. I don't want kids or pets or anything I have to take care of.”

      Being close to someone, as well as being physically intimate, is essential in life, and I find that the desire and drive come to me naturally. The fact that you feel nothing or trapped means that you have some psychologically issues that you really need to work on, along with the need for going through some useful therapy. I love kids and pets, and would like to have both in my life. All of that comes with great care.

      “I do get lonely and bored and I want attention or companionship on occasion. I think I would get bored with any one person if they were around for too long though. I get occasional desires to be close to someone but it goes away quickly.”

      It is part of human nature, or just being human, to want companionship. You would not get bored with a person that you love and trust, or with a person that means a great deal to you. However, as I mentioned above, you sound like you need therapy in all of these areas. Afterward, you would be a much happier and loving person.

      Delete
    3. Anon 2:49 and 2:50,

      I found a couple of things about your replies to me interesting. One was the assumption that I would (or perhaps ought to) care whether or not you found something "inappropriate." That signals to me that either you assume that I value societal codes of conduct (which I follow only to the extent that it benefits me), or that I would for whatever reason value your opinion, despite never having met you, which indicates that you may have some Narcissistic traits yourself. You may also have some codependent traits, which is also consistent with the attempt to "help" someone else in a very pushy, hectoring way (because the codependent believes they have to save others).

      I also thought it was interesting that you felt the need to one-up me on our respective professional accomplishments. In general, you seemed like you were somehow needing to justify your own choices despite viewing mine very poorly. That doesn't quite make sense. If you view yourself as so much more functional than me, you ought to come across as much more secure when describing your own choices.

      On the subject of therapy, persons with NPD, BPD, and AsPD generally don't change very much, especially in terms of what's going on inside. Borderlines learn DBT, which helps them function outwardly, given that Borderlines tend to be outwardly destructive in a way that harms both others and themselves. Narcissists and the various strains of psychopaths/sociopaths don't really change much from everything I've read and heard anecdotally. This may be because the hardware is damaged, sort of like soda being spilled on a laptop; who knows for sure.

      Delete
    4. Imperator,

      Having grasped the "purpose" of your comment, I certainly did not think that you would care about the inappropriateness of your own statement, as well as about the inappropriateness of your entire comment to me. However, I found it appropriate to respond earlier, having given you a summary of my real views on the “tableau” you had “painted,” so to speak. Whether or not you value my opinion, and this is the crux of the matter, along with the primary reason for this particular reply, I deemed it rightful to paint a more accurate picture of my own beliefs on everything that you chose to discuss. You mentioned Narcissistic traits, but, having analyzed and understood the main scope of your comment, you truly didn’t sound as though you had the right information, or that you comprehended enough to state so about me. By the time (sometime in the future, after knowing more about me) you apply the same thinking to your codependent traits conclusions, since I am quite sure that it is not happening at the moment, you will have finally understood something about me.

      “I also thought it was interesting that you felt the need to one-up me on our respective professional accomplishments. In general, you seemed like you were somehow needing to justify your own choices despite viewing mine very poorly. That doesn't quite make sense. If you view yourself as so much more functional than me, you ought to come across as much more secure when describing your own choices.”

      Honestly, most of your thoughts on the above had not crossed my mind as I replied to your comment earlier, but since you’ve mentioned them now, this would be an important area for you to consider discussing during therapy, if you choose to embark on this path. Being amoral and needing to charm others in a work/professional environment are poor choices.

      You wrote that individuals with BPD don’t change, but then you also wrote that they learn. If you really think about your words, you would realize that learning something useful brings about change in a person, which can be a good thing.

      Delete
    5. Anon 11:04,

      Yep, you're a Narcissist. You're using all of the classic Narcissistic tacks in argument, including gaslighting and blame-shifting. Note how when I say something you don't like, I'm being "inappropriate," but when you say something I don't like, you shift the blame back onto me, telling me that it's something I should discuss during therapy. You really couldn't have penned a more Narcissistic reply if you had been trying to caricature someone with NPD, which I think you might find interesting to read about, if you haven't already done so.

      You might also be an ACON with Narcissistic traits --- an Adult Child of a Narcissist. I've interacted with several and they communicate much as you do. Sort of like someone with NPD without the sense of humor.

      Delete
    6. Imperator,

      Pithy (with an "h"). I have an uncommon sense of humor. As it were, I find that not everyone understands it.

      Aside from that, the tableau you’ve painted is, once again and at best, part of a far-flung branch of Abstract Expressionism, or a distant form of Surrealism. If I were you, I would work on grasping the meaning of words, nuances and ideas, along with on-point characteristics/traits of a person. While on this journey, which would give you more insight about me, I would explore other areas, and would consider developing some accuracy and skill for Art Deco, Mannerism or Modular Constructivism. What’s your Pointillism and modify your Synchromism to avert Stuckism would also be a part of a more befitting endeavor on your part. A considerable brain-charge of Precisionism would not hurt either.

      Delete
  16. I am the author of this post and I thank you for putting it there and for all the wisdom it attracted. It gave me a bit of faith back.

    Yes, it's 100% true. I didn't even go into the fact my friendship group of girls are also sociopaths. There are so many around. The funny thing is that sociopaths don't even realise the others are too. I guess the world perspective is just so different as to what they are focused on.

    I get exhausted by the power struggles even though the people say "I didn't mean it like that". After a while you just want to be understood and respected.

    I was trying to understand how this guy sees me. If it's purely selfish and wanting a fan, we would struggle. I feel like he wants me near him because I know him and will protect him without judging. But he uses the player energy to put me down, boasting about other girls in this tug of war game. I just feel like I have something over him and it's an endless game I can't step out of.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sam Vaknin would probably describe you as a covert or inverted narcissist in that you crave relationships with narcissists. Although I don't think that anyone who is capable of empathy can ever be described as a narcissist, covert or otherwise. Maybe you were brought up in a narcissistic family with narcissistic values and you are simply craving the familiar. Some deprogramming, reprogramming required!

      Delete
  17. You're "super empathetic" but can't figure out what they want? What their intentions are? Go figure!

    ReplyDelete
  18. 2.14pm I think you are right. It's strong attachment to the familiar and my previous identity. I don't even think about narcissism or not. Just home and family. I get along with them easily, we have fun. The problem is I have sought psychological help for this only to find two therapists were psychopaths two. you realise the case when you're describing a dangerous situation to them and they totally dismiss it. There's just that alarm missing.

    8.23 And of course I don't know their intentions. I have no idea what it must be like to have no emotion. I am looking at a mask for god's sake. I can't be expected to become a psychopath.

    I just wanted to know if this guy is capable of genuinely feeling that love for me or if it was just an act.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think you can gather enough from this website that he is not capable of feeling what you feel. He's just not wired that way. What he can read on your face and mirror back in a split second is a power you couldn't imagine ever using because of your empathy and conscience. That's why it's so unexpected and so powerful. He's sending the exact version of your love that you are looking for.

      Delete
  19. I would like to contribute and say that I am a performance artist. All of my dance instructors have been sociopaths. They would not have had a professional career if they couldn't move or carry a beat.
    I think this is a separate issue all together, just like anyone can be tone-def, have two left feet or just be uncoordinated. I don't think it's a sociopath thing.
    The sociopaths I know are exceptionally gifted with flawless attention to detail in both dancing and musc/drumming.
    In fact, it is shown on many sites that psychopaths are attracted to drumbeats. So I don't think this argument is valid. sorry.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Discovering your rhythm, and actually feeling the beat of music is the most original, "untaught" experience. Composing your own rhythm, notes and beat, and bringing it out there, is the direct opposite of the most negative projection of oneself. Fitly."

    ^I just re-read that and really absorbed it. What a very thought-provoking comment.

    I have an excellent, intuitive sense of rhythm, but I am not a musician. I cannot sing, nor am I proficient at playing an instrument. Yet listening to good music is one of my favorite things to do.

    I'd like to call your attention to the following statement:

    "Composing your own rhythm, notes and beat, and bringing it out there, is the direct opposite of the most negative projection of oneself"

    What do *you* think constitutes the most negative projection of oneself?

    I might posit negative emotions and actions, such as malice and rage, directed towards others.

    Could not even these emotions be sublimated through the composition of music, resulting in something dark, hard or even wrathful, in a manner that assuages their potency and divests them of their capacity to harm others? The vicarious indulgence of these themes might provide a common outlet for their harmless expression, transforming them into a musical canvas of sorts, to be created by the inspired few, and appreciated by those with a taste for their strange beauty. (My unhealthy fascination for dark things is revealed here, for those interested in learning to read people.)

    Or does that energy rather feed itself in a self-destructive loop, in which the fires of rage and malice are perpetually kindled and spread?

    What do you say, musicians? How cathartic is the act of composing and performing music? Would you say that the expression of "negativity" through this medium, as I defined it, and according to whatever other ways you conceive of the term, always has a harmful impact, or do you lean towards it being a uniquely amoral channel for the harmless expression of a palette of human emotion?

    Personally? I wouldn't know. I love music of every genre, and appreciate the various forms of energy it conveys, but I rarely respond to it emotionally, except in a very superficial manner, in that some songs or groups remind me of certain people. I also like the "vibe" of certain bands that I listen to frequently. (If Green Day is my husband's band, the Chili Peppers are mine. :)

    There used to be a poster here who liked to associate regular posters with theme songs.

    You still here, Themes?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. A,

      I’ve had some “unpleasantries” to handle, and that is my reason for having been away for the past three days.

      You have phrased the following in a manner that has given me more insight about you:

      “Could not even these emotions be sublimated through the composition of music, resulting in something dark, hard or even wrathful, in a manner that assuages their potency and divests them of their capacity to harm others? The vicarious indulgence of these themes might provide a common outlet for their harmless expression, transforming them into a musical canvas of sorts, to be created by the inspired few, and appreciated by those with a taste for their strange beauty. (My unhealthy fascination for dark things is revealed here, for those interested in learning to read people.)”

      The sheer act of composing and performing music is altogether cathartic when it stems from one’s depths, or from a life experience that has enhanced one’s perspectives, or inherently changed one’s intuitive and finely conceptual connections to people, diverse places or immediate surroundings. You speak of a few concepts and tastes which I can understand on a level that has shaped me as an individual, and on yet another level, which I can relate to when delving into a more increasing profundity of expression. You are drawn to strange beauty, hard or wrathful emotions, seen in a darker and more transforming fashion. These thoughts bring "Gaspard de la Nuit," to my mind; it is a poignant and moving piano piece by Maurice Ravel. Hector Berlioz’s “Symphonie Fantastique” is also a distinct composition that connects to your main point, as well as a larger suite of piano pieces called Musica Ricercata (I especially like these due to their distinctive musical intensity), and, certainly, Liszt’s "Mephisto Waltz." You might also find John Williams' "Duel of Fates" quite appealing. You would most likely understand what I really mean if you are familiar with these pieces, or if you choose to listen to them.

      Having said the above, and now that I understand how you view this part of yourself, I would like to assert that the expression in itself, as well as the high impact you have expounded upon, would not be negative. In order for you to better comprehend my point, I was not referring to music when I said so, because I don’t view musical compositions as harmful in people. There are some pieces in the beautifully musical world that are truly unique in their expression (both dark and light), seeming as though they’ve been craftily embedded into the sheer fibers and revealing surface of a splendid canvas. In my mind, strange beauty can be found in the most unexpected places.

      Delete
    2. "Unpleasantries?" Would you care to elaborate? I am curious.

      I am not familiar with these pieces. I listen to classic rock more than to classical music- but I do like Ravel's Bolero very much.

      I will listen to these, tonight. Thank-you for sharing them.

      Delete
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