Tuesday, November 12, 2013

A sociopath's love story (part 2)

(cont.):

Now comes commitment... At first, if the sociopath is truly interested in love, commitment should be a no-brainer. How can one expect to love another without the intention of staying with them? Like I mentioned before, a sociopath may have a reason for ending a relationship because of some flaw that they cannot get past. But this doesn't mean he/she should go into a relationship looking for flaws or expecting to find one. Rather the sociopath should begin the relationship with the intention of staying with that person. When some sort of failure presents itself, it is up to that person to decide whether or not it is something they can live with (or even embrace). Remember: flaws are what make us who we are, we all have them. It's just a matter of deciding "does this flaw affect me?" or "do I even care?" Recall what I said before about how a sociopath may come to the realization that they don't care about the power struggle anymore, so not caring about something is perfectly within their limits. So what happens when that time you have spent together with your significant other turns into weeks, months, years? The more time passes, the more the sociopath will become complacent and accepting of this new lifestyle. Now does complacence detract from the true feeling of love? Well for a sociopath who previously had other motivations for being with someone and would find any plausible excuse to leave, this is certainly a big change for them. They may realize that this is a much more pleasurable and worth-while life. Did the sociopath do this for their own self-interest? That's actually a hard one to answer being a sociopath myself. My idea is that at first the sociopath is simply interested in experiencing this feeling of love, something they should not be capable of, which (in my mind) would make one only want it more. This clearly points to self-interest as the motivating factor. However once they find themselves in a well-functioning relationship, things start to change. The sociopath may come to the realization that this new-found way of life is totally dependent on their partner and his/her happiness. This causes the sociopath to do uncharacteristic things that purely serve the interest of their partner. This makes their significant other happy, pleased, content, etc., which in turn translates to happiness for the sociopath. The sociopath achieves this happiness by a sense of knowing they affected another's emotions, which is something sociopaths are well known for doing, yet in a positive way. Is this self-interest?... maybe. Who doesn't like the feeling of helping someone else feel happy? Why do we (all humans) tend to band together in the wake of a disaster to donate enormous amounts of money and goods and services? We don't do it because we like giving away our crap, nor do we do it out of a sense of civic duty. We do it because we know we are making the lives of another better (no matter how marginal it may be). This makes us feel important because we made a difference, and it gives us a sense of self-worth. So we keep our partner happy so that we may be happy, simple enough. And to really know how to keep your partner happy and ultimately the relationship genuine, one must form an honest bond with the other. Mutual happiness is a good thing.

In the long term the goals and plans of both partners begin to seriously overlap. The sociopath must keep his/her goals grounded and realistic and make sure they don't jeopardize the relationship as a whole. He/she should keep in mind that the plans they make should benefit their partner whenever possible. This goes back to keeping your partner happy, but it does so much more. These shared plans whenever developed under the influence of a sociopath have the potential to be hugely beneficial to both partners. This is because the sociopath knows what to do to get ahead, and this means that not only will the sociopath profit but so will their partner as well as the relationship as a whole. Commitment is indeed very much within the realm of possibility for a sociopath given they understand what is required of them and what they may have to sacrifice.

So what does this all mean? If a sociopath finds themselves in a relationship that meets the criteria I have laid out, does that mean they have achieved love? First of all I don't consider myself to be an expert on love or relationships by any means, this is just my way of thinking. But what if there is some truth to what I have said? Is this really love, or is it something mechanically similar or even equivalent? Well according to Robert Sternberg's Triangular theory of love, if the individuals involved in an interpersonal relationship exhibit three components: Intimacy, Passion, and Commitment simultaneously then it is described as "Consummate love." This is also known as the complete form of love, an ideal relationship, the "perfect couple." Whether this is genuine love or just a carbon copy remains up for debate. But what's the point of debating when both people are perfectly happy being a couple? What should also be noted is that consummate love is not permanent, and can easily degenerate into one of the lesser "forms of love." My belief though, is that a sociopath will realize this ideal type of love as highly preferential. Consequently, the sociopath will use all of his/her abilities to preserve this status. So it stands to reason that a relationship involving a sociopath will be more adept at facing and overcoming otherwise daunting hardships that always tend to pop up in any relationship. 

I will reference Maslow's hieracrchy of needs in which self-actualization is at the peak. A typical definition of self-actualization according to Maslow is “the full realization of one's potential and one's true self.” If a sociopath realizes what he/she is and understands all of the benefits and consequences associated with sociopathy, then they can be recognized as having achieved self-actualization. Maslow maintains that those who have reached self-actualization are capable of love. My personal conclusion: Love is attainable for any sociopath, myself included. All it takes is a little willpower and some self-sacrifice, something that is within a sociopath's capacity. All we have to remember is "give a little, get a lot."

40 comments:

  1. A test: in order to stop your country from getting taken over - and a good chunk of the country purposefully killed and tortured (think of the Bolsheviks taking over Ukraine and causing the Holodomor) and dominating the country "forever", you need to sacrifice your wife. You must personally torture her to death. If you do that, your country will keep its autonomy. If you don't millions will suffer.

    Would you do it?

    I asked my friends if they thought I'd to that to my wife; they all knew the answer - and they knew that I'd reached it in about a second, without my pulse going up.

    I asked the wife (also a psychopath). Her answer, "sucks to be me."

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anon. continued -- and it goes without saying, I love the hell out of her. I love her the way a normal guys loves his dearest possession. I love her in the sense that I want her to be happy (agape). And I love her waist-to-hip ratio (eros).

      I also love her in the way that if she betrays me in a way that hurts (not all betrayal bugs me) and I can get away with retaliating in a cruel way, I'll do it. And she knows that.

      Delete
    2. Why kill just you wife when you two can run and kill many others? Even if you die trying.

      Delete
    3. Well, my answer is - "I don't give a shit about a country". Geez, a bunch of nameless and faceless (to me) people will die and I'll be somewhere else with my significant other. :)

      Delete
    4. I am a sociopath in a long term relationship with a partner who knows what I am and accepts me for it. My insatiable libido can get on her nerves but the sex is awesome so it works. This is the only thing I have ever read on sociopaths and love that I feel hits the nail on the head. I can have a string of meaningless relationships, in fact I have, and I could cheat and manipulate my girl negatively but I choose to do it positively and to remain in a situation that benefits both myself and her. I get as much pleasure from that as I would from anything "bad" and she enjoys that I am a dick to everyone else and lovely to her and things she finds important. If she needs me to take an interest in something she knows I would otherwise not care about she simply asks me to. She is compatible with me and we have an interesting relationship that required the exact steps you described to form the foundations but it works.

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    5. That's interesting. I wouldn't want to sacrifice my wife, if I had one. I guess every sociopath is different, but we all have one thing in common: we are selfish, and every non selfish act exists to serve a selfish purpose.

      Because of my selfishness, I would more likely allow millions to die for one person. If you were to paint for me a picture of thousands of burning children, well, in all honestly...? I don't care. I value my possessions, including my wife, over anyone I haven't met. In fact, had I met every single one of them, I probably still wouldn't care.

      Now, there are probably other factors involved, not just my wife and a bunch of innocent people. If someone were to tip the scales to where it would seem more favorable to torture my wife, I'd do it. But my pulse WOULD rise as I would not enjoy it or be numb to it at all. Who wants to burn down their house? Everything they've worked so hard to achieve and put so much effort to produce, gone. You'd have to rebuild your home and your wife is your home.

      So even though I wouldn't do it, I'd be capable of it, and if I did, I would be greatly upset.

      That's my answer.

      Delete
  2. M.E. are you writing from personal experiece, or are these just
    your theories? Are these things only what you "hope" or "believe"
    might happen? Like the scientists in Los Alomos N.M. before they
    tested the first A-bomb.) There's no reason whatsoever that a
    beautiful, intelligent, sucessful 30+ year-old woman can't be loved.
    You function at a high level, and will attract others that function at that
    same level. Another words, you have nothing to offer to the low
    functioning sociopath, so he poses no threat to you. You BORE him.
    Don't let desperation and fear of the clock drive you into the wrong
    person's arms. (This is what happened to Travis Alexander. He was 6
    yrs. older then you. Did you brush shoulders with him?)
    The Morman Church is vast. You DO claim Glen Beck , I'm sorry to say. There's plenty that would be absolutely delighted to have a ruby
    like you. One thing, if you DO get tired of waiting for the right one to
    come along and opt to have a child, try to see that you get empath
    sperm at the bank. Your child would be "well rounded." They would
    have the best traits of you, and the mercy and compassion of the
    empath.

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  3. In theory, this makes sense. The problem is the whole biological imperative to reproduce. Nature sets humans up for four year relationships with the infatuation/childbearing cycle. It's true that a new sort of equilibrium can be found to make up for the fact that the "rush" of the early bond has gone away.

    The problem is, once sociopaths stop experiencing a relationship to be pleasurable they stop being nice because they are not nice people (even if the are many other good things). I am convinced that lasting partnerships that are happy need both partners to be courteous most of the time. The sociopath "changes" back to his/her regular self and politeness vanishes. It's not difficult to see how both partners might be tempted to leave a once vital relationship for the promise of a new and more satisfying infatuation. It's human nature.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I once told someone that I would never marry them because they "were not a nice person."

      Delete
  4. This cost-benefit analysis is fine as far as it goes but what happens when he's old and sick? In the absence of pure love, what will motivate you to care for him?

    Also why do you want something that goes against your nature? I admire your quest but I'm not convinced it's feasible. Far better to be upfront about your nature and your limitations and take it from there.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. by the time he is sick and old, the codep will also be losing steam, getting on in years as well.

      love turns to loyalty
      and the jeckyl and hyde will see handwriting and control himself and hook codep back ..dramatically ...from his deathbed

      Delete
  5. Willpower and some self-sacrifice are the opposite of love. Good trial.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. self-sacrifice comes naturally when you already love someone, doesn't come from willpower, and doesn't feel like self-sacrifice when you love someone even if from 'outside' looks like it.

      Delete
    2. Thank you for that @423. I am going to try to hold onto that. ;)

      Delete
    3. I meant :) , not ;)

      Delete
  6. There's so much that goes into what makes me love my sociopath. She makes my life better. She makes me happy (when she's not... you know....) She turns me on. She's incredibly interesting. We share excitement in many of the same things.. She's beautiful. She pushes me to evolve into a better person. She impresses the shit out of me in one huge aspect of her personal life. She's funny. She's not lame. She loves beauty with a highly refined appreciation for it. She is passionate. She's well put together in her appearance. She's strong and protective when she needs to be. She's is also not satisfied to rot, but is constantly trying to improve herself. she's not naive. She's no sheep. She has full appreciate of all the best things in life. I could go on and on.. But one of the main things that makes it feel like love to me is we help each other feel really alive and awake. I don't know why, but she is the one I want to watch the sunset with and I know her appreciate of that beauty is every bit as profound as anyone else's. Thats love to me. And for a combination empath-socio relationship- the sum of who we are is beyond what either of us are capable of independently. Thats really fucking cool. There's a bridge we can't cross together but that only makes us stronger and maybe even more attractive in some ways.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. At this point, I can tell you are in so deep you have been gutted (painlessly- the amazing sex is your nightly dose of anesthesia). Several organs have been removed. Glad it was good for you, as well. ;)

      all kidding aside. Please be careful. If you are idealizing a sociopath it will not come to a good end.

      Delete
    2. Reminds me of myself when it first started, I so infatuated and I thought I found my soulmate, forever and ever, I thought I never loved before - the higher it took me, the harder the fall, oh, and I fell ;)
      Looking back is almost funny - well, it wasn't then - but I can have a good laugh now about my own naivety.

      Delete
    3. do you tell her these sweet things??

      if so, how does she react?. If not, why not?

      Delete
    4. the reason i ask is have dated a few narcissists and i find that when i express sentiment to them, i get a pull back. so i dole out the compliments strategically. I dole out the "I love yous" so they feel it is genuine, and also so they can relate their nice behaviours to my appreciation......my expressions of love...which i can see they like.when they associate those things which please me with the "I love yous" I get more pleasing behaviour.

      But I found that my ex soxiopathic//high narc ex bf would then use my sentiment back on me and take AWAY his goodness in turn.
      It was like i couldn't win. I couldn't keep up with the sadism aspect, I stopped "appreciating" anything altogether and it went sour pretty quickly. ie: I stopped showing him love even when he did nice things. I withdrew my efforts. it was too exhausting. and I have more things to do with my energy than dance around the bs.

      Relationsahips should be easy not hard. You either want to please someone and they want to please you back(love) or it doesnt make any sense.



      Delete
    5. Reading over the warning replies, it sounds like what is being said is that the empathic person needs to be aware that the sociopath in the relationship would be lacking the "attachment mechanism" that most empathic people have.

      Meaning that if this person chose to exit the relationship, they would experience much less pain than an empathic person would. The assumption seems to be that this should significantly increase the likelihood of the sociopath exiting the relationship, even after having been in it a long time, when two "normal" people would have formed strong emotional attachments.

      The counter-argument is that this happens all the time in empathic relationships.

      Delete
    6. Soulmates and lovey dovey crap haha. Reminds me of HS and an exgf i tormented (no worries she deserved it).
      Someone has got you suckered by love and you fail to see how it can be used as an drug against you.
      What is there as love has potential to end or be taken/ to fade away or go away. I am an UberEmpath with Socio traits; my wife is a socio.
      Don't let love fool you. We can wear many masks.

      Delete
  7. I think its beautiful, you know your limits, boundaries, and you know what you can handle. Good for you. Kuddos to you both. Thats amazing. And yes, I call in love. Maybe not the love that this tainted world paints and the critics dish out, but a A-typical love. A higher love that you both only understand. Many cannot fathom this intensity. Many may have been deeply hurt from it. Many will question it. But nonetheless, its real for you. I hope you both respect one another and grow together in your journey. Good luck. :-)

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  8. funny, Im reading this, and it sounds kinda like eros, storge, philia, and agape kind of love. im not religious (i left church cuz of my scrupples, and other reasons), but there are many ""types"" of love.

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  9. This is a load of crap. I think socios get tired of being alone and doing all the work. They want a partner to suck dry. They take and don't give. It might be all right for a while, but even the most patient of empaths get tired of only giving.

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  10. sorry some of you have had such bad luck in love, but who hasn't? Don't get too jaded or you will shrivel up, get old and die alone.

    "Looking back is almost funny - well, it wasn't then - but I can have a good laugh now about my own naivety."

    The difference between you and me is I'm going into this eyes open, and I am extremely smart and strong. Also I am sure our partners were at a different level of personal evolution. I know what the possibilities are if things go wrong, but if you think I would be any safer with a "normal" maybe its not I who am naive. I wouldn't laugh so hard, sugar. To your point though, I do think most normals shouldn't attempt this unless they too are unusually evolved. If so, it could be the ultimate.


    "They want a partner to suck dry."

    Sorry, but you have no idea what we experience. What we both want and have is a partner to experience life with in a way that is worth the sacrifices of a relationship. Way worth it. So far, we are both being filled, not sucked dry. Also, please use better terminology next time- its hard to discuss her in the context of sucking and not get pleasantly distracted.. what were we talking about?

    Oh yeah, if you really think this so so different than what happens often to "normals" be careful- Sociopaths are only a tiny percentage of the soul sucking, taker population.

    ReplyDelete
  11. ME, if you genuinely want to do some good during your time on earth, do it by NOT having children. You will condemn them to a life of relentless hardship and struggle that no one deserves. As the offspring of a generally well intentioned Narc-opath, I'm only too familiar with the fallout.

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  12. Being in a relationship with a sociotype, there's a lot of truth in this. The trouble is, it's not healthy for an empath to be totally reliant on someone else for their happiness, plus it's crushing for the sociotype when they aren't enough to make their partner happy all the time. And the worst thing or all is when the sociotype, through no deliberate intent, says or does something that triggers a negative emotional response in the empath.

    Plus there's a tendency to see the negative emotional response as one of these flaws that you've mentioned.

    As an empath, it's crushing to see what happens to the sociotype who's tried so hard to make it work.

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  13. Oh yes, I am so crushed.

    ReplyDelete
  14. I'm an empath and I'm shocked reading some anon. commentaries.

    Some sociopathic traits are admireable, everyone should learn a few things.
    Especially when it's about how to see the world or just success.
    Or bringing the best out of yourself.

    I myself want to adapt some traits. I feel that something went wrong in my development as a human being.
    I never stood up for my things. My life felt wasted. It had no worth. Since I know a socio, my life is better by adapting some of his traits.

    So go screw yourselves who have a tunnelvision.

    ReplyDelete
  15. [Selfless love] would have to mean that you derive no personal pleasure or happiness from the company and the existence of the person you love, and that you are motivated only by self-sacrificial pity for that person’s need of you. I don’t have to point out to you that no one would be flattered by, nor would accept, a concept of that kind. Love is not self-sacrifice, but the most profound assertion of your own needs and values. It is for your own happiness that you need the person you love, and that is the greatest compliment, the greatest tribute you can pay to that person.

    Ayn Rand

    Sociopath 506

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Don't forget folks, after they love you and use you, vengeance is a bitch and you can git em' back a life for a life. It's all just choices anyway.

      Delete
  16. what a load of .... certainly sociopaths are able to plan their actions to a certain extent but I doubt their ability to have a functioning relationship over a longer period time - sociopaths seek to gratify their needs without much consideration of others ,thus there is no give and take ... what you describe are not actions of a sociopath - sociopaths tell lies without reason , make promises they do not keep and turn up 2 hours late just because they can - now that can all be a funny game but over time people will get tired of listening to empty statements and wasting time being on standby - there is no such thing as a functioning relationship with a sociopath - I find this forum kind of funny ,half the people here seem to like the idea of being a sociopath but are far from it ... omg he wants to be different but he cannot ...seriously ??? he wakes up every morning wanting to be someone else ??? he is not a sociopath - this forum consists of the most considerate bunch of sociopaths ever - you truly spend a lot of time thinking about other people ha ha ha

    ReplyDelete

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    ReplyDelete


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    ReplyDelete
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    ReplyDelete
  20. BE CAREFUL HERE NOBODY CAN HELP YOU HERE OR EVEN SUGGEST HOW YOU CAN GET YOUR EX OR LOVE BACK,ANY TESTIMONIES OF MOST SPELL CASTER HERE MUST BE IGNORE.BECAUSE MOST OF THEM ARE SCAM I MEAN REAL SCAM WHICH I WAS A VICTIM AND I GOT RIPPED OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS BECAUSE I WAS SO ANXIOUS TO GET MY WIFE BACK AFTER SHE LEFT ME FOR OVER 2 YEARS WITH MY 7 YEARS OLD SON JERRY,I HAVE APPLIED TO 7 DIFFERENT SPELL CASTER HERE AND ALL TO NO AVAIL THEY ALL ASK FOR SAME THING SEND YOUR NAME YOUR EX NAME DDRESS AND PICTURE PHONE NUMBER ETC WHICH I DID OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND MOST OF THEM WERE FROM WEST AFRICA UNTIL I SAW A POST ABOUT MAMA ANITA SPELL AND I DECIDED TO GAVE HER MY LAST TRAIL.SHE ASK ME FOUR THINGS MY REAL NAME,MY EX AND MY EX MOTHER NAME AND $380 AND SAID MY EX WILL COME BACK IN 24HOURS, I HAVE PAID OVER $3000 ON SPELL CASTING AND COURIER AND NOTHING HAVE WORK FOR ME AFTER 3 DAYS I WAS THINKING ABOUT HOW MUCH I HAVE LOST SO FAR SO I SAID LET ME GIVE HER A TRY SO I CALLED HER AGAIN AND SEND MY REAL NAME,MY EX AND MY EX MOTHER NAME AND THE $380 BECAUSE I SWEAR IT WAS MY LAST TRY SO I WAS WAITING AS SHE TOLD ME TO WAIT TILL NEXT DAY AND I COULD NOT SLEEP THAT NIGHT BECAUSE I REALLY LOVE MY WIFE AND WANT HER BACK AT 9PMTHAT DAY I SAW MY WIFE ON LINE ON FACE BOOK AND SHE SAID HI AT FIRST I WAS SHOCK BECAUSE SHE NEVER TALK WITH ME FOR THE PAST A YEAR AND 9 MONTH NOW I DID NOT REPLY AGAIN SHE SAID ARE YOU THERE? I QUICKLY REPLY YES AND SHE SAID CAN WE SEE TOMORROW I SAID YES AND SHE WENT OFF-LINE I WAS CONFUSED I TRY TO CHAT HER AGAIN BUT SHE WAS NO MORE ON LINE I COULD NOT SLEEP THAT NIGHT AS I WAS WONDERING WHAT SHE IS GOING TO SAY, BY 7.AM THE NEXT MORNING SHE GAVE ME A MISS CALL I DECIDED NOT TO CALL BACK AS I WAS STILL ON SHOCK AGAIN SHE CALL AND I PICK SHE SAID CAN WE SEE AFTER WORK TODAY I SAID YES SO SHE END THE CALL IMMEDIATELY I GOT OFF WORK SHE CALL ME AND WE MEET AND NOW WE ARE BACK AGAIN I CALL MAMA ANITA THE NEXT DAY THANKING HER FOR WHAT SHE HAS DONE IN FACT I STILL CALL HER AND THANK HER AS MY LIFE WAS NOT COMPLETE WITHOUT MY WIFE PLEASE BE CAREFUL HERE I HAVE BEEN SCAM THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS IF YOU WANT A TRUE LOVE SPELL THEN CONTACT MAMA ANITA (mamaanita.lovespellsolution@gmail.com) or mama.anitaspellcraft@hotmail.com website http://kelvinlargemyself.wix.com/anita

    ReplyDelete
  21. i couldn't believe that i would ever be re-unite with my ex-lover, i was so traumatize staying all alone with no body to stay by me and to be with me, but i was so lucky one certain day to meet this powerful spell caster Dr.Ofemo,after telling him about my situation he did everything humanly possible to see that my lover come back to me,indeed after casting the spell my ex-lover came back to me less than 48 hours,my ex-lover came back begging me that he will never leave me again,3 months later we got engaged and married,if you are having this same situation just contact Dr Ofemo on his email:drofemosolutiontemple@gmail.com thanks very much sir for restoring my ex-lover back to me,his emai:drofemospelltemple@yahoo.com or his cell phone is:+2348163387496 his website:http://drofemospelltemple.wix.com/dr-ofemo

    ReplyDelete

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