Friday, November 22, 2013

Sociopath quote: good and bad

When people see some things as beautiful, other things become ugly. When people see some things as good, other things become bad.

-Lao Tzu


  1. What did he mean by that ?

  2. i think it means that we judge by comparison, relatively. a thing can't be beautiful if ugly things don't exist. the good can't exist without the bad.

  3. It sounds to me like the quote is about not being able to see any grey areas.

  4. In many parts of Africa, to be fat is considered beautiful and more desirable. As being well-fed signifies wealth.

    Over here, obviously, it's considered unattractive, because it signifies excess, gluttony and poor health.

  5. For me, it says that people think in terms of black or white. "If what I am doing and who I am feels good to me and you are doing something completely different, then you and what you're doing must be bad".

  6. doesn't it have some deep meaning of old things that were beautiful gone ugly when something more beautiful comes to existence? and the same for good things gone bad after a new good is established? like medicine breakthroughs or competition between brides in some cultures.

  7. It's from the Tao Te Ching, guys. It's just about duality and balance. In this case, "beauty is defined by what we find ugly", and vice versa, and then the same for good and bad.

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  10. Postmodern Sociopath was closest to the mark... didn't think it needed interpreting.

    Perspective, however, takes a big role in that which is good and bad, acceptable and unacceptable, much like Medusa's example of fatties in Africa. If a man is fat, he must have wealth enough to be so, whereas the skinny man is clearly poor, regardless of his metabolism or say, love of sports.

    It's not that people are completely ignorant of the facts, they simply set a baseline and usually don't try to balance the scales once they have been set. Thankfully, some do.

    There are people who think in Black or White, however, this is often regarded a trait of children, the very ignorant, or sufferers of BPD. Most people are capable of thinking in shades of grey, many times because flirting with the line themselves becomes tempting. Once they've done it, they're less likely to truly demonize someone for not being in the white side. It may, however, be their initial judgement.

    People with BPD (Borderline, not Bipolar) are often infuriating. I dated one once. The only thing worse than dealing with someone's moral compass is dealing with one that never budges.

  11. People with BPD (Borderline, not Bipolar) are often infuriating. I dated one once. The only thing worse than dealing with someone's moral compass is dealing with one that never budges.

    And yet they hate being compared to children.

    I have an awful knack for attracting people who have BPD. It's always an unpleasant experience trying to be rid of them due to their dependency issues likely due to having solidified a finite perspective of someone which tends to fuel their obsession with them.

  12. lol speaking of bpd, I have about five of the eight traits. gladly, i don't have the rage or emotional blackmail. the main feature i share(aside from depression and dependency behaviour) which is irritating and leads to paralysis is an easily fluctuating sense of self. I also have an appreciation of other people's fluidity. i actually prefer those without a firmly defined sense of self (even if psychiatry deems this a 'problem/disorder'). as long as they are rational enough to not see it as a problem and aren't incessantly searching for that elusive thing to define them in an abstract way. sorry, off topic?

    1. If a person has a loose sense of self they are way more interesting, and thats prob why you like them...they keep you stimulated socially.

      Predictable people are great too, but for other reasons, like stability.

      I never thought about that. So if a person needs stability along with stimulation from a person with whom they want a long term relationship, what type of person fits the bill for them?

    2. That's tricky. Maybe a stable partner, and some friends who are a little more stimulating/ exciting. I think I've got that.

    3. Yeah tha5s what I though.

      The mal marc I dated would not have that. I think my manic ass must have been running him a bit ragged. I tried sooo hard to be stable for him while doing my own thing.

      And I am one who needs stability in a mate. Weird world, weird illness, wouldnt have it any other way.

  13. (cont)
    lol, i guess that's still like solidifying someone. god there's no avoiding it.

  14. The unibrow is often divisive when it comes to judgements about beauty.

  15. That's not so much a sociopath quote as a general good bit of wisdom. Humans instinctively seek to label. The term 'bad guys' always irked me because most people think that they're doing the right thing and that their enemies are wrong, and vice versa. Overcoming black and white categories like that would do us all some good.

  16. labeling is useful. overgeneralization not so much.

    There are a bunch of interesting articles on morality at NewScientist if anyone's interested. You have to register to read.

    Some interesting quotes:
    Recent research has shown that psychopaths, who behave antisocially and without remorse, differ from the rest of us in several brain regions associated with self-control and moral cognition (Behavioral Sciences and the Law, vol 26, p 7). Even psychologically normal people who merely score higher in psychopathic traits show distinctive differences in their patterns of brain activation when contemplating moral decisions (Molecular Psychiatry, vol 14, p 5). Martha J. Farah
    Questions of right and wrong, good and evil, are questions about human and animal well-being. The moment we admit this we see that science can, in principle, answer such questions - because the experience of conscious creatures depends on the way the universe is. In our case, the difference between the worst possible suffering and the greatest flourishing depends on everything that can influence states of the human brain, ranging from changes in our genome to changes in the global economy. The relevant details of genetics, neurobiology, psychology, sociology, economics and so on are fantastically complicated, but there is no question that these are domains in which there are truths to be discovered and they fall squarely within the purview of science.
    Sam Harris

    A CORPORATE executive is considering a new policy. He thinks: "I know this policy will harm the environment, but I don't care at all about that." So he implements the policy and, sure enough, the environment is harmed. Now ask yourself: did he harm the environment intentionally?

    But suppose we now change the word "harm" to "help". So the executive thinks: "I know this policy will help the environment, but I don't care at all about that." He implements the policy, and the environment is helped. Did the executive help the environment intentionally?

    These cases, or variations on them, have been given to participants in numerous studies - part of the growing field of experimental philosophy - and the results are always the same. People who receive the first case tend to say that the executive harmed the environment intentionally, but those who receive the second usually say that the helping was unintentional.

    What could be happening here? The only difference lies in the moral qualities of the executive's behaviour - harming in one case, helping in the other. So people's moral judgements must somehow be affecting their intuitions about what appears to be an entirely non-moral question: whether a person acts intentionally or unintentionally. Joshua Knobe.

  17. That quote reminds me of a mentaly unstable person I once knew.

  18. @helpful beaver: That was fantastic (the Joshua Knobe section) and precisely what I've been saying for a while now. The only issue here is that some people will despise the executive's apathy more than his actions, and be more enraged about his gross negligence when he could have 'righted' the situation

    I do agree though, that from my point of view, there is little reward to someone knowing my true intentions when I do something good. Yet, when I do something bad, I get no special break because of my emotional detachment, quite the opposite, I become demonized for being an uncaring monster. I do think this is why M.E. is so very jealous of Aspies.

    I've already written about this subject at my blog, but I will have to somehow incorporate this into a later post... Cheers.

  19. Frida said...
    The unibrow is often divisive when it comes to judgements about beauty.

    Light comment but true to the point = maybe too light for this place. You said it all. Excellent Frida! Stay away from the shavers.

  20. One can not exist without the other. They are both needed.

  21. I bet there are better pictures of Lao Tzu out there :O

    1. That's actually a picture of Frida Kahlo. I have no idea why it's associated with a quote from Lao Tzu.

  22. Think I saw a documentary once about the training of soldiers to actually kill theyr enemy. The percentage of soldiers that fire to kill was remarkably low in the first human gun wars. For the most part soldiers were more focused on saving each other, and then they just fired theyr guns where ever. Thats because most people are empaths, and you need to train them to actually go for a kill. There is a psychology to killing.

    So the Japanese, imaginative as they are, both knew this and went in for a tactic to raise their armies kill-rate by brainwashing theyr soldiers to express love through killing ones enemies. When they invaded China (whatever war that was) the result was dramatic. Nothing was spared, families slaughtered, so on and so forth.

    Did some quick google searches, couldn't find this, but bet its there if you keep looking.

    In a way they re-defined good and thereby evil. Mission accomplished!

  23. "Nothing is good or bad, but thinking makes it so."
    Enter the third way of thinking, which is above all sides.

  24. I'm only 19 and have been highly introspective for close to a decade, in the past few years rigorously, systematically so. I am a psychopath, but there is nuance. I also have an innate sense of justice, but almost always this manifests as ill-will towards offenders and not hot empathy for victims (and a majority of the time doesn't manifest at all). I also enjoy doing good things for people and have never expected reciprocation for a deed, as is so common among non-psychopaths. I don't ever remember feeling like a victim, but have always thought only of people as enemies, and I myself was a group-leader and bully into middle-school. I've grown progressively less social since this time, until now I only have contact with people at work and college. As was true of the last two years of high school and work. I am social with co-workers but not at school. It doesn't start this way, but just grows out of more proximity. Over time people stop liking me, even if at first (for years, it used to be) I am the most popular person around (as was true until partway through 8th grade). Now I just try to hold off on conversing in the first place, but act very friendly when approached. I have for some time been intellectually convinced of the existence of morality and have thus committed myself to morality and almost total honesty. I certainly never steal or cause others intentional harm and I'm a fucking vegetarian. I often relish in thoughts of myself performing serial murder and torture, am most attracted to very violent sex or rape, especially face-fucking right now, though the porn available is not abusive enough as I have been desensitized and I am considering stopping (jerk off like 4 times/week) so as to get this back, as we know happens from research. (This is not fetishistic or obsessive, but more comparable to excitation during a sporting event.) I find such things both funny and exciting in most of my moods and am cold or the above to watching others perform such acts, though usually with some trace of enjoyment. Even still, I am virtually certain my capacity and frequency for empathy is considerably increased since just a couple years ago. This is due both involuntarily as a product of continual intellectual concern for others and a relatively more recent realization that probably increased empathy is preferable for happiness and consequent frequent attempts at empathy. I don't virtually ever feel sad and am more happy now than ever, and mostly this is due to seclusion from getting my own place (it irks me to regard people, so for this and other reasons I prefer just being alone). In fact what makes me shallowly sad is every so often considering the fact I will never be able to actually murder and rape people. I decided a little over a month ago to start picking up girls, but didn't, don't, want to do it on campus because I don't want any sort of reputation or people bothering me, and can't do it at work for fear of getting fired, in which case I would be obliged by my moral code to note the reason for termination when finding another job. Anyway, I decided this week I'm just going to do it on campus when I find myself in secluded situations since it is the only opportunity with my lifestyle. I will have to put up a facade, yes, but I can't simply not fuck! I don't have any clue how much I can shift my personality in favor of emotionality, I still have very little interest in relationships and this is reciprocated by others with me. My closest family could all die (I could be the one to kill them) and they would easily slip my mind. When I moved out about 9 months ago, I realized a month after that my younger sister hadn't crossed my mind in the whole of that time. I think the short-term empathy might increase quite a bit over the years, but I am quite more skeptical about my ability to generate long-term emotions towards other people, as this is much more deeply rooted in personality rather than mood. This, though, might actually be the best deal to strike.

    1. I would stop putting so much pressure on yourself to have different emotional responses. Emotions are morally neutral. As far as developing long term bonds- you are not the sort to write love poems (unless it is part of a con). This is not a bad thing. Your unsentimental, highly analytical approach to the world will likely lead to considerable personal success in the years to come if you can manage to avoid self sabotage.

      What strikes me as the most difficult thing about your predicament is that you are stunted in your ability to feel pleasure. That's why you have to go to such extremes sexually to get off. You don't come across as particularly sadistic- more just someone who operates at maximum intensity. That's actually a character strength in that it is indicative of having an extremely strong will. A strong will is necessary for effecting change upon an environment. You will never be a "sheep".

      But the shortage of joy and pleasure in your life is a very real handicap that may drive you to self sabotage unless you are able to come up with ways to experience those things in a way that does not risk making you a permanent social outcast. How you resolve this inner tension will have great importance in your personal satisfaction in the years ahead. It's more than just the moments of pleasure/joy that you chase. It's the pattern of your life choices in the process of chasing those things- are you ultimately fucking yourself over for a short term high? Or are you able to mobilize your will to the extent you can become truly powerful instead of just a criminal fuck up.

  25. Is there were no ugly stuff, nobody would know anythang about beauty? If just evil bastards existed, who would have any good to compare with? -Virgoan ancient sfinx-writer whose claw-carvings were found scribbled into a marble olde lavatory-wall.

  26. Failure is an opportunity.
    If you blame someone else,
    there is no end to the blame.

    Therefore the Master (self)
    fulfills her own obligations
    and corrects her own mistakes.
    She does what she needs to do
    and demands nothing of others.

    tao te ching

    self responsibility?

  27. I think it is a quote about openmindedness.

    Once you label sthg then you're supposed to match the way you interact with it accordingly, right? You're supposed to sta away from sociopaths because you have a picture of "badness" in your mind.

    You have a picture of a spiritual guru as a saviour and you see "good" .

    You compare the 2 people and you have a problem because you want to be surrounded by all things which make you feel good, goodness, peace, and so you demonize the other ...all because the othervdoesnt match up with what you want in your life

    Ok, so then a pd person comes along. Now you have a dilemma because they are difficult, do not cause peaceful good environment. But does that make them "bad"?

    You crave a bad boy or a bad girl for a mate, and people keep saying they are bad for you. Ok to a degree, sure. But you still want them. How do you reconcile in your head the good bad boy/girl for you?

    Then people say you are a hypocrite/stupid if you want to hang out with a bad boy/girl and you complain...and they would be right! But i mean, are they right?

    I think the quote is just saying life is not that simple.

    1. Its about the rigidity in labeling.

  28. I think the quote is saying:; no matter how you "label" yourself, with whatever diagnosis you may have, we're all responsible for ourselves and our own actions. If we so choose,
    every day is a learning opportunity. It's o.k. to want to play with the 'bad boy', 'bad girl', been there, done that. ( and it was fun!) But take responsibility for your choices today... and the consequences of those choices. ...Maybe think it through a little.

  29. You are nothing but a compulsive liar. A painfully boring person who has made up an elaborate persona to bring significance to your life. Pathetic.

    1. wow. you really told her.
      now get back to the internet porn.

    2. Eleborate persona to give onesself significance

      Makes sense to me. I will tell uou why., and for a moment just put aside the lying..because I dont know or care what that even means to a person who has "made up" a persona.

      You come from a background.., we all come from a background, rather.. molded by the people who brought us up. Thy told you certain things about yourself..if they were narcissistic peoole as mine were. And things they told you about yourself were all made up lies. Well at dome point you look in the mirror, or maybe you have always done it...looked in the mirror and thought.who am I? I dont feel like I am anything but hints of traits what my caretakers asigned me.

      Ok, well what if one day you just say no. You just say .."I AM A LIE"

      What do you then do with that stunning revelation? Because you have a lot of choices, anon 206.

      Because you can look on your past and you point to places you felt you had yoour own mind, your own self, you have atleast an outline to work with. But I guess now you have to colour in the lines, dont you? Children dont think about theses things. But every day now, you do think about theses things. You need to live on the planet, right? You must choose who to associate eith , who to mate eith how you spend your money, what clothes you will wear, how to interact with people, whether they're your taxi drivers, waiters, or your professors, bosses, significant others.

      What other th do you expect a person to do? If yhey dont make an elaborate persona then they arent going lo thrive now, are they? Because they sure as shit arent going to now take the word of their lying parents and go dobthe identity they laid out for you. That is the ultimate self betrayal.

      How do you live if you dont make up stuff along the way. And eho is to say that you are a liar if you try things out for size?
      You think that it is a deliberate dupe to experiment with yourself ? Because you cant do that in a vacuum. You will get plenty of opportunities to experiment with all sorts of relationships. You dont have choice to sit idle and you arent going to tell everyone you meet hey I dont know myself yet, and if I find out that you arent for me, if I find out I dont like this job, if I change my mind, please excuse me." Uuhm who in their right mind is going to take a chance on you? Seriously.

      If you dont have an ability to "make up a persona" youre fucked, destined to ..idk, live by yourself, a hermit

      And who the fuck are you to tell someone they are a "liar" for having to do your life this way. It isnt intentional, it is survival. Just lay off. Because you could wake up one day from a head trauma and have to identify yourself oneday and people will call you a liar and you wouldnt like it.

  30. I think the quote's about perspective. Nothing is inherently good or bad, ugly or beautiful. When we start seeing anything as good, we automatically assume anything that is not that is the bad.

  31. Brilliant. Oh I love Lao Tzu. Though there are many slightly differing ways in which his timeless work was translated into English, this seems to be a pretty good one. Here is the entirety of the 2nd stanza in the Tao Teh Ching. It may help you understand what he is truly trying to say :)

    "When people see some things as beautiful other things become ugly. When people see some things as good, other things become bad.
    Being and non-being condition each other. Difficult and easy give rise to each other. Long and short define each other. High and low depend on each other. Before and after follow each other.
    Therefore the master. acts non-assertively, and teaches without saying anything. Things arise and she lets them come; things disappear and she lets them go. She has but does not possess, acts but does not desire results. When her work is done, she forgets it. That is why the credits last forever."
    Lao Tzu

  32. "When some people see things as beautiful other things become ugly.
    When some people see some things as good other become bad."

    This quote could be used to put sociopaths in perspective, as closely as possible. By reading the quote you began to realize not very closely at all. Funny how sociopath world is about sociopaths but most of the humans that have something to say have a very narrow sketch of how a sociopath is. Not only is it rare that you will encounter someone that is and owns up to it. Most will never get a from row seat, most will never understand just how complex our minds are. For those that do, see what so many will never see. There is no way to defend yourself, it is the ultimate "power" I guess you could say. There is no way to stop it and when you catch it you're so easily manipulated to believe otherwise. No one wins but the sociopath, humans care too much. That's why they are such an easy target. But sociopaths are humans, just a better version. On the subject of love, sociopaths can love deeper than humanly possible. Everyone that says otherwise is fixated on the idea that love is red roses, cards and teddy bears. Snap out of it for a second, stop being human for a second and put it into perspective. The kind of love most people will never feel, true love. Humans just corrupted the idea of love; the world makes too many rules for love. You just have to let it do what it does. With that being said, all this breakdown of a sociopath is very general. It's not this simple(not like it's simple at all) but each sociopath is different. It's very easy to filter out the real sociopaths and the people giving their two cents. Let me write this now because I might never take the time to do so detailed. Most comments are a waste of time, much like mine. Because real sociopaths won't take much time to explain ourselves. Sites like this and other breakdowns are only to keep hope alive among humans, the vulnerables... That there is a way to prevent it. To avoid being played, that's just it. You are like a piece in a game of chess. There's no way out but through. For the people that will argue about how I am wrong, just remember: you are not in my head. You will never be, you will always be where I want you. Silly vulnerables.. Therefore the puzzle cannot be solved. Only by a true sociopath, which many will never encounter. Have fun trying though! Best of luck, you'll need it.

    P.S I find it hilarious that before commenting it says, please prove you are not a robot. Hahahaha. What?! Most humans are, that's what make them so predictable. Easily manipulated. HA! Hashtag sociopath humor? Haha, anyone.....? No.... Okay. :b At least I found it funny.


  33. Just wanted to give a quick shout out and say that I genuinely enjoy reading your articles. |

  34. Very true! It's all about perception isn't it?


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