Tuesday, October 28, 2014

Baron-Cohan vs. Fallon

From a reader:

Hi M.E.,

If you haven't seen this, it's an interesting watch and I would be interested hear your take.  Simon Baron-Cohan (Ali G's cousin) is part of the panel and there is some interesting back and forth on Aspie's vs. Socio's and such with folks on the panel.

With all the debate on the forum of "who is what" and what the diagnosis mean and such, it might make fore some interesting fodder as well.

For me it was as much a confirmation of "whatever he is, I'm a lot like that."  Not exactly, but close - as an engineer, I can seen both elements in myself.

There is a funny quote around 45:00 about being the guy, in the case of trouble, "running down the street with two machetes in his underwear."  ...knives out and grinning!  8D~

And the "coming next time" bit on cultural alcoholism is a crack up!  I love the Ausies!

Cheers!


65 comments:

  1. Surely M.E. can't really believe that a person can BOTH reveal AND
    conceal things about themselves, and abruptly pull up stakes, and dissapear
    into the night.
    Some people have followed this blog for it's entire existence. They want to know
    what she is up to and what her future plans for the blog are. Is she going to
    EXPAND with more books and possibly go PUBLIC, or is she going to shut down everything with a huge "farewell" posting?
    It's impossible to reveal AND conceal. Either she takes that NEXT large step,
    maybe an eventual run for the White House, or she shuts down completely.
    There is NO middle ground.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Maybe she does what she feels like doing and there is no particular agenda to it. Some days she writes, other days she takes a well needed break. She also works and has other commitments (as do we all). Lots of presumptions about her are being made here. Maybe everything is okay with her... and as it should be. Have a great morning! 8~)

      Delete
    2. Anon, I don't believe her agenda has much to do with your analysis. She's like everyone else: she wants stimulation, knowledge, perhaps even wisdom, and however she can manage to both reveal and stay hidden is logically the best bet to get it all. It's called mystery. When something remains hidden while also acting somewhat revealing, you have enchantment. And that's what makes the human world go round. We're all yearning for enchantment, one way or another.

      June

      Delete
    3. I wouldn't be banking on M.E thinking too far ahead. I was absolutely staggered that it taken her so long to make positive changes to the forum. Her 'impression management' has always left little to be desired. I don't think M.E could afford to out herself, because I don't believe she'd have the social skills to cope with criticism. I think she'd know this as well, just because one is a sociopath, doesn't mean they don't have a lot of self doubt and insecurities.

      Delete
    4. What changes? I don't think she's ever posted there.

      Delete
  2. HL, great watch. Thanks for sharing! Okay weird question. But does fallon have a simian line on one or both hands? Also called single transverse palmer crease. Someone look close at his hand when he raises it. Maybe my eyesight is playing tricks on me thou. Lol. Does it look like it. My partner is a double simian on both hands... even my daughter. No chromosome issues as well.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Looks like ME isn't the only one who has faced skepticism.

    ReplyDelete
  4. M.E. is jacking us around. That's what sociopaths do. Most of us are suckers. That's what sociopaths need. I am about 3/4 sucker and 1/4 sociopath. It is what it is and we are what we are.

    The viruses and the bacteria and the prions are accumulating and approaching the critical mass point. They will form a malevolent hive mind and eat us alive.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If this works I will become an ebola virus

      Delete
    2. Borderlines are like part time psychopaths

      Delete
    3. and then what are they doing the rest of the time?

      This is not in my view the most interesting interview with Fallon. The british academic does what many of them do, which is try to corner them -- argue on side issues, rather than try to elaborate on that point of view and what is interesting about it. Fallon doesn't make the kind of claims that british academic spits out. He's smart. He wins his games that way. But if you are interested in Fallon's pov then the other interviews on youtube are much more interesting. It's very british that interview.

      Delete
    4. DocSciFi, Thanks for the context.

      June

      Delete
    5. I've got a headache so this is not perfection -- what does Fallon know about himself. Well he has a strong family history of psychopathic murders. He's got a hugely abnormal brain scan that looks like those of criminal psychopaths. He's got 15 or more gene signatures of 'killer' genes. He expresses a remarkable absence of emotional empathy... He's manipulative. He's pro social.

      His mother and family raised him with what he needed to get to overcome all the deficiencies in social relations that he was born with.

      He calls himself almost a psychopath sometimes. Ok. Use the labels you want. I think he makes a convincing case for one abnormal human being existing as he does.

      Delete
    6. When people meet you and like you they can't bear to imagine that they got fooled and that you really are reckless, antisocial, a thief, liar etc.

      Fallon repeatedly explains he's done bad things for thrills and that it doesn't bug him. people repeatedly try to argue he isn't that bad - he can't be a psychopath - meanwhile Fallon knows that if he were in a lifeboat situation, he'd do what psychopaths do.

      i have been in a similar position as Fallon. i tell people I'm irresponsible, selectively dishonest, manipulative, etc. people find it endearing - until I do something they don't like.

      Delete
    7. Oh another thing - the empaths have no idea how frustrating it is to he like Fallon, come clean, and get told that you aren't as you say you are. Fallon cares, at some level, about honesty. he cares about that more than fitting in, being liked, etc. if he tells you he abnormally put his family in danger, manipulates, lies, seeks thrills, etc saying he isn't abnormal feels frustrating.

      Delete
    8. Anon, I think I get who reigns the lifeboat, given the news every day.

      It's very clever of you to own up to your selective dishonesty. Like that.

      About getting fooled: Do you enjoy being conned? How would you react? Is it endearing to you?

      You said, " the empaths have no idea how frustrating it is to he like Fallon, come clean, and get told that you aren't as you say you are."

      Why? Because you forewarned them? Most normals would realize in hindsight that's a ploy, pre-emptive strike they misunderstood -- misunderstood because you set it up that way. You honestly admit to your loved ones about lying to others as a means to lying to Them in the future. So, it feels to Them like an act of intimate betrayal.

      June

      Delete
    9. "Do you enjoy being conned? How would you react? Is it endearing to you?"

      It depends. Typically I don't like being conned. But then one sociopath conned me and I got to see how my sense of self was allowing me to be taken advantage of. I appreciated what he'd showed me as it allowed me to become more free. I also knew that he couldn't help it; expecting him to be different was like expecting a mosquito to avoid sucking blood and transmitting sleeping sickness.

      "You honestly admit to your loved ones about lying to others as a means to lying to Them in the future. So, it feels to Them like an act of intimate betrayal."

      How would you have a sociopath interact with people. There's a few ways that spring to mind:

      1) Keep it secret. Don't let people know you are callous and unemotional. Pretend to be normal. That seems to be the default way of getting along.

      2) Be honest with people: I'm callous, unemotional, thrill-seeking and despite my best efforts to be pro-social, occasionally - especially when I want something - selfish, manipulative and dishonest.

      So I used to do #1. Now I mostly do #2. What is June's way?

      Imagine that you're mostly bored and restless because you don't derive pleasure from the simple things that most people fill their time up with. So you "need" thrills, which can come in the form of drugs, alcohol, casual sex or just manipulating people. You regularly are puzzled at what people do, because you don't experience the same feelings as they do about things.

      E.g. lady gets upset and bursts into tears because she's lost and having a shitty day. You find it a bit thrilling (it is unusual), humorous (she's bothered about that?) and irritating - because now you need to hide your laughter and pretend to care, or people will think you're a callous and unemotional monster.

      So please, I'm all ears. How ought someone like me navigate life?

      Delete
    10. "if he tells you he abnormally put his family in danger, manipulates, lies, seeks thrills, etc saying he isn't abnormal feels frustrating."

      who is saying he isn't abnormal. Did I miss something?

      Delete
    11. Anon, You are a sincere socio. lol.

      Much to say but my family just arrived. Later I will address your gracious questions. The short of it, however, is this: Find someone or thing you can connect to, are willing to die for. Someone or animal, principle, belief or cosmic force -- the key here is to find purpose, meaning and most important, a sense of Belonging. Anything besides "winning" the game. There is no game . . . read Herman Hesse's Mag Ludi and Narcissus and Goldman to gleam bits of the slippery side of the heroic (Jungian) journey -- heros always need to win. Down the rabbit hole we all go, socio and empath, into darkness to see the light. The light being all atoms, quarks, matter, and every attendant emotion and physical, mental sensation, is interconnected. I really do think that's how the fabric of reality works.

      My wolf pack is howling. Must go for now.

      June

      Delete
    12. Hi Anon,

      Well, the most effective thing, I would imagine, only knowing you from what you've written, is to continue to work on and hone your cognitive empathy (reading people - this can be learned) and I would say to treat your sociopathy as something you might only share with, say half a dozen people (choose wisely) - work out the bugs with people who are likely to be understanding.

      I am interested to hear what June has to say (I am a fan of Hesse - good stuff!!!)

      @Superchick: Glad you liked it - happy to contribute to the conversation (if linking stuff really constitutes "contribution"...). I need to pick his book up and give it a read -

      @ DocSciFi: you mentioned other, better interviews - post some links. I'm interested.

      Cheers!

      Delete
    13. Anon, I enjoy your posts here. I'd also go with option 2. When the antisocial behavior comes out, would you say that it is impulsive or compulsive behavior? or neither?

      HL, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4MEQRgJbfU

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzUsaXfSQDY

      there are some other American style interviews of Fallon too.

      Delete
    14. Dsf - self-deceptive is the adjective I'd use to describe the behavior. eg I notice I've been living a double life and have 2 girlfriends. how does that happen? in the past, I just would have done it and lied to them about it - because i was amoral and ok with it. These days i notice that i get very close to a female friend, there's temptation, and oops i screwed up - the self-deception was lying that there wouldn't be a problem, keeping one woman unaware of the other (she never asked), etc. basically, i have a tremendous ability to rationalize just about anything even as I follow rules like, "no penis in vagina" (that'd be sex).

      the only thing that works for me is ironclad rules.

      June - your answer is too poetic and hard for me to understand. Psychopaths have a hard time relating that sort of stuff to themselves. i asked you a direct question and gave you two specific strategies. if you have another you want me to follow, please spell it out in similar language. ideally it would be something that a ten-year old could follow. eg "never lie".

      Delete
    15. June is right. Telling people you are a sociopath does not give you carte Blanche to behave like one, quite the opposite.
      The question is, what is your purpose in telling others? To try to "better" yourself? To warn them about the fact that you can be ruthless? To up the game by making them aware you are? To have the opportunity to say I told you so?
      The other thing June is saying (June correct me if I misunderstood) is that you need to find something better to do than manipulate and play with people. Something you feel passionate about. Something that elevates your spirit, something that occupies your thoughts. Playing with people is your drug. Find another drug, because the one you use is destructive to you in the long run.

      Delete
    16. I also agree with HLHaler. Keep the fact you are a sociopath mostly a secret. If you know and trust somebody enough that you think they can understand, tell them, but also ask them to tell you when you "behave badly". This way you won't be tempted to tell everyone for the wrong reasons.

      Delete
    17. OldAndWise -- your responses sound like something you might suggest if you didn't really understand what it is like to be a psychopath, moment-by-moment, for an entire life.

      Imagine a pedophile says, "OK, fine, grooming and raping kids doesn't work for me. So how ought I to live?"

      June and OldAndWise say - sagely no less - "you need to find something sexier than kids! Find something that really excites you and occupies your thoughts."

      Pedophiles are made such that they want to enjoy intimacy with kids. Psychopaths are built such that they enjoy manipulating people. Telling them to find something else to do isn't very productive advice.

      Although having heard this from you, I guess it makes sense why normal people hate pedophiles and psychopaths with a passion. You simply have no idea what it is like to be one.

      It is pretty easy for me to imagine what it is like to be a pedophile. If a pedophile asked me what to do, I'd say, "stay the hell away from kids. Do meditation practice, particularly metta practice (which builds compassion and empathy). Live with someone that monitors you and drops the hammer as required to keep you on track. No drugs. No alcohol. Regular fitness program."

      All that seems a lot more practical and likely to work than, "find something that excites you more than little kids naked asses!"

      Delete
    18. lol sexier than kids :P

      Delete
    19. Anonymous, I have good news and bad news.

      You are not a sociopath.
      I base that on your desperate want to be seen as one, to the point of telling all those people you are one; your little "you don't understand what it's like" dramatic bullshit and those examples you gave.

      You sound like a classic narcissistic asshole. Not a sociopath.

      How to navigate through life?
      If you were a sociopath, I'd say roll with it. Get the thrills you can get away with. If it gets too fucked up, use some of those manipulation skills and charm to rebuild. At least until you find a partner [in crime] who will make it worth it to behave yourself.

      Since you are a narcissistic drama queen, I'd say there is nothing to look forward to but more boredom and emptiness you can't fill. There is not much you can do that will work.
      Here's an idea. Start a cult. Or better yet, since you lack the charisma, join one.
      Preferably one that does not allow access to tecnology :-)

      Delete
    20. @ Anonymous
      “Imagine that you're mostly bored and restless because you don't derive pleasure from the simple things that most people fill their time up with. So you "need" thrills, which can come in the form of drugs, alcohol, casual sex or just manipulating people.”

      Have you considered replacing anti-social activities with extreme sports? Seems like a good option for thrill-seekers.

      Delete
    21. I've done extreme sports. I find extreme sex more addictive.

      As for anon 2:08 - give me whatever label you want to give me. I'm just trying to explain the situation. It is easy for people who shy away from bad behavior to give counterproductive advice to those who don't.

      Delete
    22. Anon, like I said (if you are the same one) I like your posts here. You mentioned self-deception as the route to antisocial behavior, or the means that allow it.

      Pathological narcissism is a disease of self-deception. I don't care what your diagnosis is btw, just pointing out this fact.

      do you want long term relationships?

      Delete
    23. Anon@ 6:46pm Of course it's too poetic . . . I was in a rush and my pack was howling. Plus, if you are devoid of all emotion, poetry would the last art I'd choose to communicate with you. Poetry employs imagery to spark resonances in the reader -- intellectual, spiritual and emotional.

      Not much time again but here goes another blurb. Hopefully more concrete and useful.

      1) If manipulating others is your drug, try this lesson in restraint. Manipulate all you want but not for personal gain, simply to do good. Game others not to profit yourself but someone else. That's the ironclad rule to games and manipulation: You have to game for good. As Fallon pointed out, he found "beauty in goodness." So game away, but only to prosper others. Just a suggestion.

      2) Extreme sex: I can see how this provides you with the stimulation you crave. I wonder whether it might profit your desire to dominate to hire an escort, versed in S&M? You could swing both ways, from top to bottom, to experience both sides of the equation. ;-)

      You'e right that I don't know what it's like to live inside the isolation of an emotional void. But I still believe that you (unless you're a hard core sadist) can grow in ways that bring a sense of higher purpose to the games you love to play. If you can find an empath without judgment to hang out with, I also think that might help. We're not all self-righteous jerks. Seeing beauty in goodness takes practice, and it helps when others can show us the math, the music and dance steps. Not that anyone with a brain ever stops learning what they are trying to teach.

      June

      Delete
    24. O&W You understood me correctly. Upon reading more of his comments, however, I've given him a little exercise to contemplate: Gaming for good. lol. Gotta remain open-minded to the tenacity of his manipulative nature. Maybe he can adapt the rules to accommodate a brighter contest. I think Puppy Basket spoke of this very thing a while back.

      June

      Delete
    25. Anon@ 10:50AM

      *squints eyes*

      you seem familiar

      Delete
    26. Anon at 843, I think you might have answered your own question, then. Same advice you would give a pedophile, apply it to yourself.
      'stay the hell away from *** playing with people ***. Do meditation practice, particularly metta practice (which builds compassion and empathy). Live with someone that monitors you and drops the hammer as required to keep you on track. No drugs. No alcohol. Regular fitness program."

      Do you have the mental stamina to do it?

      Finding someone that is willing to monitor you is a really good idea. You need to want to do it for yourself, though. From what you are saying, you may not be ready. But you passed the first step towards being high functioning: Awareness.

      Delete
  5. Didn't work. What format is needed to make an icon with my screen name? Does it have to be jpg or what

    ReplyDelete
  6. Fallon reminds me of a lot people in upper management and in the grunts (self included) I work with.

    Rockstar, my co-worker, took the test and the results were there's a 50% chance he's a socio. Over the years, we've talked for hours about everything, science, psychology, alien life, philosophy, astrology, the list is endless. His darkly intelligent, often graphic humor, often took me by surprise, and was timed to perfection. His obvious glee at the idea of murdering pedophiles, etc., was very much like Fallon's description of running in his underwear, waving knives. His risk-taking: shooting a guy who raped and beat a female friend, riding motorcycles at insane speeds, dissing steroid-enhanced gangbangers (at work) and his callous math about who should live, who should die, all seem to fit into this gray area of psychopathy mixed with 'normal.' It took over a year before Rockstar began to trust me and even longer before he could physically relax and return a real hug. Emotioanal distance always creates some physical distance. And vice versa. To wit: Fallon equates love with kisses.

    So I can understand Fallon saying he's happy the way he is: It appears that Rockstar, an ex-heroin addict whose wife died from an OD in his arms, has suddenly (re?)connected to emotions after many years, with mixed results. He complains one day that he wishes he never 'woke up' to emotion; the next he says that though he's unhappy about not getting the girl he admires, something inside him has turned. He now claims that he's getting all kinds of insight into how his past relates to his unrequited love. And yet, some part of him remains utterly ruthless when it comes to certain types of human beings.

    Judgmental emotions flood the fertile plains of empathy with saltwater. No crops, no trees, no flowers can grow in brine; all salt does is preserve the slaughtered meat. Shallow emotions, on the other hand, lead to an empty pool where the last lone shark sits waving its gills. I think Fallon has a large capacity to grow more feelers, so to speak. He will likely find deeper emotional connections to others when someone he's close to dies. His wife, probably.

    Fallon showed much passion for science and for justice. Passion that is willing to sacrifice one's time and body is love. His passion appears to be driving him towards the light.

    June

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. June, I agree. Beautiful. Also Fallon does not go around blaming people incessantly. He doesn't blame himself either. Judgmental emotions flood the fertile plains of, I would say, connection with other people. This man has little to no affective empathy. You can see it in how he talks and relates. He is highly self-focussed. Still he is connected to other people. He does not live in a hostile world. He is not paranoid either.

      Delete
    2. DocScifi, Connections. From what I've read in religion, science, metaphysics, etc, that's what reality is. Interconnected. Salt in the wounds of socios and in empaths creates a sterile marsh where things become stagnant and fossilized. In Japan and Cascadia you can read the geo-imprint of tsunamis that happened thousands of years ago, wiping out all kinds of forests. The same can be said of the socio-normal-empath imprint we are leaving on this world, not only socially but in layers of earth, depths of water, radiations in the atmosphere and at ground level. We have the power to create more life and diversity or destroy. It scares me, but also gives me hope.

      I agree with your assessment. Fallon does not appear hostile, etc. He does not want to destroy; he wants to prosper life, not see it suffer. That's what makes his sterile affect response regarding his loved ones in contrast to running with knives so interesting.

      June

      Delete
    3. June, it is so interesting to me how he remains connected to people in the absence of affective empathy. This suggests there is something deeper than empathy? Or it is simply a choice he made about what he wants in life, or it was programmed into him at an early age how to connect with people.

      I do find him refreshingly frank and straighforward about how he sees things, understands himself and the world. At least that is how it appears to me.

      Delete
    4. Based on what he and others have said, much of it comes down to forming healthy attachments early (the recent issue of Science had a good series on development in mammals).

      Ma Haller declared that we would be practicing Attachment Parenting with The Unholy Spawn and I am glad she did. They seem to be on a much better path than I was - it's still early, but...

      However, it's funny to watch Jr start "gaming" things at five - cracks me up. That's my boy!!! 8)~

      Delete
    5. HLHaller, yes I think your point is well taken. it seems one can form healthy attachments without emotional empathy. Healthy enough...

      also about all this lifeboat stuff. I read an article awhile ago that analyzed survival probabilities in historical shipwrecks. It turned out that the main factor was the attitude of the captain. If the captain announced and enforced women and children first, then a much higher proportion of people survived. If not, it was every man for himself and much fewer survived.

      Its not the attitude of the individual that matters, its the attitude of the captain.

      Delete
    6. My son is like Nero. When he came along I was completely neurotic about him not coming up in the environment that I did, and I made sure there was no abuse of any kind, but he still developed violent outbursts at 18 months old. I luv my kid but damn dude, if he had been raised in a violent environment, he woulda been Richard Kuklinski. He's medicated now on mood stabilizers, and hasn't had a violent outburst since being on them. He loves black humor and satire. When he was 8 he got in to my George Carlin cd's and started listening to them. He thought he was hilarious. Like he totally got George Carlin. That resonated with him. I'm like, you're eight! He loves Sherlock on the BBC. Makes me wonder :P but he says it reminds him of me. I luuuv my kid, but I hope and pray every day that he stays on his meds when he hits 18. If he goes off his meds, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't prepared for him to go to prison.

      Delete
    7. DocSciFi, " it is so interesting to me how he remains connected to people in the absence of affective empathy. This suggests there is something deeper than empathy? Or it is simply a choice he made about what he wants in life, or it was programmed into him at an early age how to connect with people."

      Good question. It's curious and I'd like to know the answer, too.

      June

      Delete
    8. Hi June, here's another thought a long the same lines, which has been raised before but not in this context.

      Fallon loves doing science -- all his adult life. It's a passion for those who do it, living on the edge of knowledge, and to do it well one has to be able to separate what one knows from what one does not know. But in the end it is curiosity.

      Now why did he become a neurological scientist? I don't think that was an accident!

      See, science is a social enterprise -- gotta be able to work with people and really enjoy the exchange. I think this also kept him glued together. It's a calling.

      Delete
    9. DocScifi, I'll buy that. Science has had me in a grip more than once; it is all-encompassing. Neurologist indeed. One might say his condition boosted his fascination. Working with others to reach a common goal certainly does create some binding ties. And often respect.

      June

      Delete
    10. June, what I'll say is that Fallon gets his needs met interacting in a scientific social network that is based on being fundamentally interested in what another person has to say till they deselect. That is a kind of respect. He needs collaborators in order to function in his calling.

      I do not know if it is the same experience or notion of respect, as you or I would internalize it.

      But I think your point of operationalized respect is a key notion.

      Delete
    11. DocSciFi, Nicely put, "operational respect.'

      June

      Delete
    12. Hi June,

      This is how I am starting to see things. With a psychopath one can lean hard on rational thought processes and perhaps an internal sense of well-being to operationalize prosocial emotions/attitudes etc that lead to behavior. that's the caustic emotions getting overcome with rational thought processes.

      With BPD it seems to go different through the routes of DBT -- to the wise mind.

      To be frank I think NPD is the hardest nut to crack because of the self-deception. I read that those with BPD who have NPD traits do not do as well in therapy as those with BPD that do not.

      And maybe it's also the same for psychopaths -- they can do better without the NPD traits, or maybe not?

      Delete
    13. The study of different types is still pretty new to me, but from the little I know and have seen, NPD is very unattractive; I would not chose to spend much time with someone who's suffering high on the scale. I imagine they have trouble keeping friends. There's only so long people can bear to sit in awestruck admiration, etc.

      I must say, though, that this site has taught me a thing or two about the boundless variety of viewpoints. I enjoy your posts and a lot of others written here. The caustic crap doesn't bother me that much, except it's rather boring; I'm used to vile comments at work and it gets old pretty quick.

      June Faust

      Delete
    14. Hi June, my understanding is that self-aware person with NPD is caught in a difficult struggle. Some are rather thoughtful and exhibit more emotional intelligence in certain contexts that 'normals'.

      NPD is also part of the variety of human experience and fascinating that way too. My impression is that many are in an uncomfortable and unpleasant state most of the time...

      About science and Fallon, one last thing is that many scientists see beauty in discoveries in their field, even small ones. There is this appreciation of beauty that is hard to describe -- and only a few can see it too, or maybe you are the only one -- it is still beautiful.

      what was it: as spirit doth to spirit speak?

      Delete
    15. DocSciFi, Totally agree with you about beauty. I get the sense that being able to see and appreciate beauty in myriad forms, from the arts, abstract theories and equations, to spiders and human geeks, is a key factor in fostering a 'kindly passion' for all life. I'd rather croak than lose the ability to feel 'beauty' in the way that I do, even though it does make the ugly aspects of life harder to take. Destruction seems so pointless when you can create.

      The spirit of the stars certainly changed my life. I met one scientist whose amazing multi-link theory of the stars, geophysics and biology rocked me into another dimension.

      As for being the only one who can see certain kinds of beauty . . . not. You see it, too, I believe.

      A question. Just curious. Do you recall Todd Browning's classic movie (1929?) "Freaks?" There's a terrific scene where all the freaks are chanting at a wedding party between a tall, greedy beautiful blond and a sweet tiny dwarf, "Make her one of us. One of us." The look of horror on her face is what I imagine most socios see when their mask slips and they find themselves not reacting appropriately in society. Interestingly, the (real) geeks in the movie appear more human than the pretty blond and her scheming muscleman. The movie was banned for many years because, naturally, most people at that time found the movie monstrous, the grisly ending unbearable. (They make her one of them)

      June

      Delete
  7. I don't know how you can get a 20 on the PCL-R and still claim to be psycopathic. Sounds to me like he got this scan and used it to rationalize the disorder on certain events in his life.

    It's somewhat offensive to listen to him go on about minor things that maybe through a certain lens could be considered psycopathic. And yet he's managed a marriage, long term success and children?

    Nay, sir. Nay.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Anon @ 1:36 "And yet he's managed a marriage, long term success and children?"

    Good point. As was your observation on the scoring. He's obviously not a full-blown socio.

    June

    ReplyDelete
  9. "He's obviously not a full-blown socio. "

    Well, shame on him. Should he be ashamed of himself for not being a "full-blown socio."

    Imagine:

    "Oh, dear. I thought about killing someone who irritated me, but then I decided not to. I am so ashamed of myself. Can you ever forgive me?"

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. lol...even if you think I'm a cunt for bein a feminist, I still think ur funny.

      Delete
  10. Forgiveness comes after the offender dies. It's so much easier, as a famous astrologer once told me. She meant that it's easier to communicate with the dead.

    But in your case RA, since I continue to believe you've got something to contribute, I'll grant my forgiveness right now.

    Hang in there. Fake it till you make it. I know you can.

    June

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thank you, June. I appreciate your support. Actually, I once was involved in a major struggle with the second worst cult leader in Oregon history. A man who had stolen about a million dollars from an assortment of followers. First, we destroyed him in court, stole a 100K from him (though winning a law suit), very satisfying, and finally I learned that he had dropped dead from a heart attack. Doesn't get much more satisfying than that. Sometimes we get lucky.

      Delete
  11. So autism and sociopathy aren't similar?

    ReplyDelete
  12. Hello,

    I recently became aware that my boyfriend of two years is a sociopath. I always knew he had different personality traits than most, but I was accepting of this because I myself have some pretty big character flaws that I have struggled with almost all of my life, mostly related to substance abuse. I never tried to understand what his issues with guilt and emotion were stemming from because I felt like his actions were proof enough that he cares wholeheartedly. However, in the past few months he has become physically violent. The episodes are always a direct reaction to my provocation, so I've stopped "questioning" him to avoid getting hurt. Instead, I started to seek guidance online and discovered this blog which has really helped me discover what is going on and gain some insight. Now that I have determined that he is in fact a sociopath, I no longer have the same questions. I used to want to know why he never apologized, consoled me when I was sad, blah, blah, blah. I used to want to know if this secret relationship with a man that I discovered on his phone is really platonic like he claims it to be despite the intimacy in the texts. I don't even need answers for that anymore. I've done so much research... I already know. Now I just want to know this: is every violent sociopath capable of murder? Do sociopaths fear going to jail? Does the violence usually escalate? Will he be likely to someday get violent without being provoked even though he hasn't thus far? When I first met him, he told me that his last girlfriend had killed herself, and I am sort of driving myself into panic thinking of all of the possibilities of what maybe really happened. One more question... Since discovering that he is in fact a sociopath, I have started to disengage from his attempts to fake emotion, and today he expressed anger about it. Do I need to play it off like I'm still just as happy in order to protect myself until I can leave? I cannot leave right now as I am unemployed and do not drive... A situation that I now realize he manipulated me into to gain control over me... And it worked. I have no idea what to do. I still feel relatively safe, and he is still my best friend. It's a very complicated situation. For the most part, I do enjoy the time we spend together. I just need to know I'm safe. I know that he thinks logically and makes very calculated, sound decisions, but in a state of fury, would he fear going to jail if he really hurt me, or would he not be able to help himself? Thanks for any input on this!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Only the Paranoid SurviveOctober 29, 2014 at 1:47 PM

      Anonymous Person,
      You're probably trolling but let's suppose that you're telling the truth.

      “is every violent sociopath capable of murder?”

      Everyone is capable of murder, especially violent sociopaths.

      “ Do sociopaths fear guina to jail?”

      They do not want to go to jail but that's not enough to prevent them from committing serious crimes.

      “ Does the violence usually escalate? “
      Always.

      “Will he be likely to someday get violent without being provoked even though he hasn't thus far?”

      Yes.

      “When I first met him, he told me that his last girlfriend had killed herself, and I am sort of driving myself into panic thinking of all of the possibilities of what maybe really happened.”

      In this case, he probably killed her and is going to kill you.

      “I still feel relatively safe, and he is still my best friend. It's a very complicated situation.”

      Are you familiar with the terms “Gaslighting” and “Stockholm Syndrome”?

      Delete
  13. I'm sorry my comment is off subject, but I'm not sure where to post general questions...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's not quite accurate to say "there is no 'right place' or 'wrong place' to post a question at this web site, but this web site gets as close to such a libertarian anarchist utopia as you are likely to find. There are no "answers." There's only an answer that works for a while. There are only "odds," no certainties.

      I just read your comment very carefully. (I was thinking about something else.) The odds probably are that you are in considerable danger. You said, " I cannot leave right now as I am unemployed and do not drive." I do not know where you are. Most place (at least in the United States) have shelters for abused people (who are usually but not exclusively women). Most communities have crisis lines with trained people who can provide guidance and advice. Based on very little knowledge (but some experience with similar situations) I would suggest that you call 911 (when it is safe to make a call) and ask for a crisis line phone number. You are at an entertaining web site, but not a very safe or helpful one. As I see that you posted last night, I have no way of knowing if you are safe. Probably I will never know. I can tell you how to get in touch with me out of this web site, but that's probably not safe for you. Perhaps not safe for me, for all I know. You may be a sociopath spinning a very complex lure scheme. Life is dangerous. Please post again if you can.

      Delete
    2. this web site gets as close to such a libertarian anarchist utopial..lol amen to that! :D

      Delete
  14. I really disliked the interviewer. She wore a smug smirk on her face the entire way through and kept interrupting him, asking questions at a faster rate than he could answer, so we never really get to hear what he has to say about anything they throw out at him. This wasn't done very well. I really wanted to hear more in depth answers from Fallon.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Fallon just wants to confess and educate. He is proud that he figured out he's a selfish, manipulative, thrill-seeking, hypercompetitive jerk. It only took him 60+ years, a brainscan and multiple consults with forensic shrinks. Meanwhile everyone close to him (except the ovulating women) figured it out in, oh, 15 minutes.

    I believe that is called "specific lack of insight" in the PCL-R.

    ReplyDelete

Comments on posts over 14 days are SPAM filtered and may not show up right away or at all.

Join Amazon Prime - Watch Over 40,000 Movies

.

Comments are unmoderated. Blog owner is not responsible for third party content. By leaving comments on the blog, commenters give license to the blog owner to reprint attributed comments in any form.