Wednesday, October 29, 2014

Everybody's different

This was an interesting story from an older Mormon prophet, Joseph Fielding Smith, about difference:

We need to appreciate and love people for themselves.

When I was a boy, we had a horse named Junie. She was one of the most intelligent animals I ever saw. She seemed almost human in her ability. I couldn’t keep her locked in the barn because she would continually undo the strap on the door of her stall. I used to put the strap connected to the half-door of the stall over the top of the post, but she would simply lift it off with her nose and teeth. Then she would go out in the yard.

There was a water tap in the yard used for filling the water trough for our animals. Junie would turn this on with her teeth and then leave the water running. My father would get after me because I couldn’t keep that horse in the barn. She never ran away; she just turned on the water and then walked around the yard or over the lawn or through the garden. In the middle of the night, I would hear the water running and then I would have to get up and shut it off and lock Junie up again.

My father suggested that the horse seemed smarter than I was. One day he decided that he would lock her in so that she couldn’t get out. He took the strap that usually looped over the top of the post and buckled it around the post and under a crossbar, and then he said, “Young lady, let’s see you get out of there now!” My father and I left the barn and started to walk back to the house; and before we reached it, Junie was at our side. She then went over and turned the water on again.

I suggested that now, perhaps, she was about as smart as either one of us. We just couldn’t keep Junie from getting out of her stall. But that doesn’t mean she was bad, because she wasn’t. Father wasn’t about to sell or trade her, because she had so many other good qualities that made up for this one little fault.

The horse was as reliable and dependable at pulling our buggy as she was adept at getting out of the stall. And this was important, because Mother was a licensed midwife. When she would get called to a confinement somewhere in the valley, usually in the middle of the night, I would have to get up, take a lantern out to the barn, and hitch Junie up to the buggy.

I was only about ten or eleven years old at the time; and that horse had to be gentle and yet strong enough to take me and Mother all over the valley, in all kinds of weather. One thing I never could understand, however, was why most of the babies had to be born at night and so many of them in winter.

Often I would wait in the buggy for Mother, and then it was nice to have the company of gentle old Junie. This experience with this horse was very good for me, because early in life I had to learn to love and appreciate her for herself. She was a wonderful horse with only a couple of bad habits. People are a lot the same way. None of us is perfect; yet each of us is trying to become perfect, even as our Father in heaven. We need to appreciate and love people for themselves.

Maybe you need to remember this when you evaluate your parents or teachers or ward and stake leaders or friends—or brothers and sisters. This lesson has always stayed with me—to see the good in people even though we are trying to help them overcome one or two bad habits. …

I learned early in life to love and not to judge others, trying always to overcome my own faults.

I think it's interesting the different reactions I have gotten from readers. Often they're positive, they agree that sociopaths are much maligned for just being a mental disorder that people don't choose to have and have very limited ability to change or even modify in themselves. And of course some people see sociopaths as subhumans that should be exterminated. Of course that will usually happen, a split of opinions on something, but the interesting thing is the reasoning. Often religion is used to justify both positions. Efficiency is used to justify both positions. Certain philosophies (e.g. utilitarianism) are used to justify both positions. What I learned in law school is that there are always two sides to every coin. The more you argue that certain people are worthless, the easier it is for those types of beliefs to become acceptable or even desirable as standing on good "moral" principles. The more those beliefs become acceptable, the more likely someone who is willing to act on those beliefs will come into power. The more people in power who are willing to act on those beliefs, the more risky it is for anyone to live in a way that is both different and authentic.

Why don't we just kill off all sociopaths? Maybe because like the horse Junie, the same traits that make them sometimes dangerous, obnoxious, disgusting, or reprehensible are also the traits that will promote survival and success for them and all those attached to them in certain dangerous, obnoxious, disgusting, or reprehensible situations.


  1. Even if they don't kill us all, they'll identify us via brain scans and we won't be able to get certain jobs until our brains show that we are playing nicely.

    I have some sense of what these tests will measure.

    Often when I'm doing something - even something nice - I'll notice myself thinking how I'll manipulate others by talking about it. Or someone will tell me something and I'll think, "great, now I can get what I want from her," or some other self-centered, manipulative, exploitative thought.

    I suspect that's what the brain scans will measure: intrusive, self-centered thoughts arising during tasks.

    Dr. James Fallon has mentioned this - he'll be doing things partly because he figures that after the fact he'll have a good story to tell other people. In the middle of doing whatever he's doing, he's probably thinking, "oh, this is going to make a great story..." or "when I tell it this way it will sound..."

    1. Get over yourself, you paranoid drama queen.
      Nobody is going to start any mandatory mass brain scanning anytime soon.

      1. They would have to make it *mandatory* or you could simply refuse.

      2. How do you figure they are going to do it? Force every single person in the country to get scanned? Or every single person applying for one of those positions in pretty much every workplace that offers that position?
      Otherwise you have so much room to fuck with that system that anyone remotelly sociopathic will have no problem at all slipping through those cracks.

      3. Do you have the slightest idea the amount of shit and red tape they would have to wade through to even begin introducing that? The amount of time and money it would take as well?

      4. Ethics committees, human rights lawyers, protestors, etc would cause endless trouble and delays.

      5. They would have to prove that the findings actually mean that you *will* display those undesirable traits. A lawyer's wetdream.

      6. Even if all that did go through, there would be plenty of jobs that would not give a fuck or would be actively recruiting individuals with those traits.

      Sociopaths who have a brain cell in their head will not go wanting.

      I can go on here.
      Are you starting to get the picture?

      It is your narcissism that tells you that you are so fucking special. You are not.
      So stop your pathetic whining. Nobody cares enough about you to persecute your sad, self centered ass.

    2. "Why don't we just kill off all sociopaths? "

      Context is everything. Do you think ME is narcissistic? I

      am getting bored with these straw man persecutorial, prosecutorial questions of hypotheticals in some draconian world, which it is unlikely any of us will ever see. In the end, such questions spawn other questions, questions of persecutions and then for asking such questions, individuals end up being persecuted in language here, just above for instance. That's my pov. Like how can one have good communication with all this hateful language?

    3. While I agree with you about being sick to death of all these paranoid drama queens, what exactly do you think whining about "hateful language" is going to achieve?
      This is Sociopath World, not Kiss Each Others' Ass World full of emoticons and "I wuv u" retarded shit.

      If your ego or constitution is so delicate, then perhaps you would be better off not socializing with those on the sociopathic spectrum.
      You know what they say about not being able to take the heat.

    4. This comment has been removed by the author.

    5. Why do you think I am whining? I am expressing my pov -- my observations. The term 'whining' is a judgement you make.

      "If your ego or constitution is so delicate, then perhaps you would be better off not socializing with those on the sociopathic spectrum. "

      Why do you bother to offer advise? I am not interested in advise.

    6. Fair enough.
      Was my perception. Shall we change it to "complaining", "talking about" or something similar then? Question still stands, what exactly are you hoping to achieve?

    7. Interesting that you felt the need to update your comment.

      Yes, it was a judgement that I made. Just as you made the judgement that my language was hateful and impeding conversation.
      Or is it only judgement when you are not the one doing it? :-)

      My "advice" could just as easily be said to be my pov, my observation, no?

    8. "That's my pov. Like how can one have good communication with all this hateful language?"

      I clearly state what is my pov and ask a question. I think it is a valid question.

      Do you think some of the language used here is hateful? or not? It is a question.

    9. Just because you say it, doesn't mean that's what it is.
      I could easily say that everything I wrote above is said with utmost respect. I have a feeling you would consider that to be not entirely true.

      You still haven't answered my questions. I'll be happy to oblige you once you do so.

    10. I stated that my pov was that I viewed some of the language as hateful, and ask now again if you agree on that or not?

      I didn't say that is 'what it is' because I clearly indicated this was my pov. If I had, then I wouldn't be asking now again if you think some of this language is hateful or not.

      I also asked the question if hateful language leads to good communication.

      I am not asking you to oblige me. I am asking questions on a public internet forum to anyone who reads this.

      I ask you not to oblige me. It isn't about you or me that I write this here

    11. "My "advice" could just as easily be said to be my pov, my observation, no?"

      Indeed not. The advise I quoted was:
      ""If your ego or constitution is so delicate, then perhaps you would be better off not socializing with those on the sociopathic spectrum. ""

      telling someone that 'you would be better off not..." doing is giving advise as it is commonly understood.

      It is not an observation. It is your opinion and advise. I am not interested in advise as I said before.

    12. Oh what glorious fun you must be ;-)

      Since you insist on continuing, how about I change it to "Nitpicking people with delicate egos and sensibilities don't tend to do very well around those on the sociopathic spectrum. That's been my observation" Feel better now?

      As I said, you want me to answer your questions, answer mine first.
      But I'll add another one:
      Which is more detrimental to conversation on a sociopath site, coarse fucking language or tedious nitpicking?

    13. The future will be a Kafkanian nightmareOctober 29, 2014 at 10:17 PM

      The government will keep violating individual freedom in the name of “security”.

  2. Question for sociopaths - do you misbehave after minimal amounts of alcohol? Cleckley said that was typical of sociopaths.

    1. What do you mean by "misbehave" and "minimal amounts"?

  3. I DON'T hate ALL Sociopaths. I love Sociopath women as long as they are
    femme fatales. It's a requirement that they be pretty. I know it's superficial
    and life is unfair. But I didn't make this world, and that's what my glans call out for.
    It's NOT such a bad deal. I get sex-for a time and the ladies get the oppertunity to KILL me. I have a right to decide when I wish to die and under what
    conditions. Travis Alexander didn't know who he was playing with. I would.
    I suspect he wanted to live, because he had "big plans." I have no plans.
    I'm ready to go today. But leaving by Jodi Arias would be a very nice way to go.
    I would never knowingly abuse Jodi, but she might get the idea that not enough
    attention was paied or that her "needs" were NOT stemmed. That in itself might
    be enough for her to kill me. But NOT in such a violent manner. Probably by
    gun or poison. It beats dying alone by heart attack.

    1. Are you good looking? Do you have money? I know life's not fair, but this is all that I am attracted to.

    2. Okay. Okay. I'll give you a chance. Do I match your standards? Let me know.

  4. But some people must accept their role as "outcasts"? Zodiac scorpios seek the "desert" (they keep their own company) & socios perhaps should moan less about acceptance? Some people are extremists and cannot share what mainstream folks have or do. Socios cannot love or be loved, they are unloveable. Face it, look at it in the mirror.

  5. Well since this site is public I hate it when I see normal peoples and empaths in coments section asking us the sociopaths about stuff like we are not human

    1. That's true, isn't that sociopathic behavior? I mean, "empaths" treating you like objects? you shall know, everybody is a little sociopathic when is convenient to them, and maybe you are empathetic when it is convenient to you

    2. Well, since this site is public, I hate it when I see someone with such a delicate ego and sense of entitlement whining about people asking questions.

      Should everyone be silent and watch in awe as you impart the wisdom of the wanna- be- sociopath upon them instead?

    3. At Anon @ 11:44 am, BUUUURNED!!!!!

  6. ^ I can sympathize with this, you're human. Nothing less, nothing more... like the rest of us. I've met some outstanding individuals who'd fall under the sociopathic spectrum umbrella. Same as borderlines. There are 250 plus types of borderlines. I'm sure the same goes for sociopaths. When we start grouping each other as all the same... doesn't seem so just. Too many variables to one's personality.

    1. me too Superchick. Do you remember the anon with psychopathic traits who recommended the book: nonviolent communication: the language of life? I have found it to be a real treat.

    2. Sociopaths can be amazing for everybody except the targets hehehe

    3. I don't find sociopaths to be amazing. I find them to be strikingly different kinds of people than me. Sometimes I find them to be more honest with themselves than some of those who claim to be 'empaths' here. That's not to say I want one in my personal life. I'll pass on that.

    4. I like your honesty. I'm sure a lot of people feel that way about borderlines too. I don't blame them. Who wants a little monster in their life that thinks about destruction and revenge all day. That was part of Fallon's interview I could appreciate and relate to is he has a lot of thoughts that he tries not to act on. I'm the same way, but I'm not perfect, and can be difficult if you cross me. I try to stay away from PD's, and if I do have to interact with them, I keep boundaries. It just gets too messy.

    5. Hi Dr. Ginger,

      I meant that I strongly doubt I would be able to get my needs met in an intimate relationship with a sociopath or psychopath or severely disordered PD. There is also the downside that I could be rather hurt if I invested in an emotional relationship. It's not a moral judgment of what is good or bad, but what I want in life, and don't want too.

      I appreciate your sharing about Nero. I had difficulties with my son too, although for other reasons. My view is that if the attachment is good or ends up being good with you and him, then he can have good attachments to others in the future, which seems to me to be a key issue for emotional wellbeing, and alot of that other stuff gets straightened out as the brain matures, impulse control etc. I guess that's unsolicited advise but something I wanted to share.

      Superchick, I agree with you about high functioning BPD. People who learn DBT and NVC with lots of practise can be a delight to be around. Never boring... and there is an openness too, I guess, that one can treasure.

    6. From the get go, one of the governing notions for my relationship with my kids is to start having the relationship I want with them. This may sound a little odd so let me explain.

      Rather than worry about what "the books" say, I've tried to simply be loving and calm (mostly with success - and not too big a flare up) and work on feeding his curiosity and independence - that's the parent I want to be. We also spend time every day cuddling and "checking in" - I use the same "check in" when I need to help him calm down and he seems to be responding well.

      It's all about those attachments -

      By the by, starting about 20 years ago, I spent about five years in intensive therapy after becoming suicidal. My doc never came out and gave me a BPD diagnosis (I was paying out of pocket, so she was under no pressure for a formal diagnosis - and in hind sight, I'm glad she didn't; I don't think I would have survived it).

      It was through that therapy that I worked out ways to choose my actions rather than be compelled by my feelings. I can still get triggered, but I'm much better at managing it now. There's more to it than that, but I do understand the desire to avoid unaware PD's - I bump into them from time to time and it's...annoying at best.

  7. I'll check out that read doc. Thanks. And what you said, agreed. There are only certain borderlines I interact with on a certain level, I don't think I am better, nor am I less than, usually borderlines who've gone through a dbt program are dynamite to interact with on a deeper level. It's like your on the same page. And the skills make one grounded and see things from all kinds of perspectives. Sometimes difficulties can arise, but if both parties look inwardly and use the skills it can work and be fun. For each challenge there's always a dbt skill to counteract with. :-)

    Morbid, agreed. So much of the time I can get along with someone, and then manage to see that that same person I'm driving with....can be targeting someone. But maybe we can all fall into that trap at times. :(

    1. I agree, there's a significant difference with bpd's that have been through dbt, or long term therapy. Much easier to deal with. I've never actually been through dbt myself, but I've never felt I suffered enough to go through anything like that. At this point though I do know the skills, and have taught them.

    2. It's good you have access to them doc. They've helped me a lot. I'm really trying to master one skill at a time. This year I plopped my self in sexual abuse trauma counselling, but I quickly became extremely unregulated remembering the triggers. My partner and I believe that it's a deep rooted theme at its core " problem" with me. My partner will comment how protective I am over the children when it comes to this. I actually relive the trauma over in my mind he says. And fuck any daddy with a daughter can replay in my mind and i get extremely protective. Even with the boys protecting them with scenarios. I justify it and say I'm enforcing boundaries, but I know my mind is in turmoil. So i thought this year I'm going to do it, take it to the next level and deal with this shit once and for all. But I quickly became unregulated and my counselor put me back in dbt. Supposedly there's levels to it in Canada. Specially with sexual abuse trauma attached to it. She said shes had individuals go back in dbt again because the trauma was too much for the mind to handle on its own. My goal is to get to the next phase, but not until I gain mastery in each skill and have enough coping skills under my belt. I just want my brain to access wise mind more freely. :)

      Nights ~

    3. I hope everything works out well. I must be a different kind of borderline because I don't live in my past. Bad things happened, but I don't ruminate about it. My brother is the complete opposite. He's a classic borderline. He is 50, and still ruminates over and over about the past, and gets really worked up. He can't let things go that happened to him in childhood, and he still gets angry about it, and lashes out.

    4. Ya its ironic how certain siblings raised in the same environments all react very differently. I hope he finds his peace as well. Mine always goes with seasons. I can be fine and non-triggered for years, then wam bam triggered for awhile. But I'm far better than I was. My mother still chooses to stay with the man. So it's knowing that her choices cannot affect me. I peacefully detach in some of her choices now. But remain contact in other areas. I make the best of our times. But I always have my eyes on my kids. Always. Boundaries keeps the relationship healthy as possible. :-)

    5. Supposedly I'm diagnosed with ptsd. But to me it's all a borderline reaction to a root cause. I missed the stage of getting good and angry. I always protected, forgave, but it cost me. There's stages to that I need to go through & I don't want to miss to get to my full potential. But mindfulness seems to keep me grounded the best of all therapies. ;)

      Have a good morning.

  8. Out of curiosity, how do you sense what another person wants? Anything that you focus on? All I can possibly think that people want from others- attention, companionship, and ego boosts. Besides that, female sociopaths - any way/characteristics that give them not an extremist, I just dont want to be manipulated ? Some people on this forum said music effects their emotions in ways life just doesn't - then would sociopaths enjoy how I met your mother? Finally, any life lessons? Sorry if some of these questions sound ignorant and random.

  9. I remember as a child, the world seemed to know what normal was.
    But I just could't seem to figure it out.

    I understood that what people said, and what people meant, AND what people ACTUALLY meant, were 3 different things.

    For some reason I didn't understand that social niceties were essential to the order of things in the normal world.

    You see... I'm a sociopath.

    Currently called Anti Social Personality Disorder with Narcissistic Tendencies as described by the DSM-V, and a Psychopathy Check List (Revised) score between 30 and 35 . I am also hobbled by an IQ above 150.

    I do certain things exceptionally well, and others exceptionally poorly. But I have an ability to learn far beyond that of most people, and it is only because of this I have been able to blend in... not that well, but well enough that I'm not spending life in jail or locked in an asylum.

    Normal people fascinate me. I go out to bars just to sit and watch, and listen to normal people interact with each other. I hear them lie to each other, and to themselves. I observe facial expressions and body language. For me, it's like going to the zoo and watching the chimps co-mingle.

    They're so weak; constrained by their ideology of a mythical morality that binds them together in social contract. Oblivious to the real power of their own existence.

    Stupid, gullible, naive, transparent, and weak...

    The predator class exists. I see it in politicians, businessmen, cops, criminals and clergy. We are all around; few, but omnipresent. We seek out positions of control and authority; those of us that have the self control to pass ourselves off as normal.
    The prey class is willfully ignorant of our existence; believing we are aberrations and statistical anomalies. When in fact we make up a significant portion of the population.

    The sadist thing about it all is that if we had been properly groomed, we could have achieved almost anything we set our minds to.

    Unfortunately, I was raised by folks who had no real understanding of sociopathy; other than it was 'bad'. So in that, I was deprived of the knowledge of who and what I was from a young age. It's a shame; I believe if sociopaths are raised correctly they could be a superior driving force forward for human civilization.

    Simply put, sociopaths are the single greatest untapped force in humanity's history.
    Feared and misunderstood, sociopaths are targets of scorn and persecution because we aren't reared harnessing our true natures for the betterment of mankind.

    And that isn't our fault. It's the fault of the misinformed, weak drones that bear and raise us.

    What chance does a wolf have when raised by sheep?

    1. I enjoyed that. Well stated.

    2. Not sure I meant it to be enjoyable.... just sick and tired of not being able to tell anyone.

    3. I'm listening today. There's a double sided coin that always should be voiced. Glad you shared. :)

    4. "Unfortunately, I was raised by folks who had no real understanding of sociopathy; other than it was 'bad'. So in that, I was deprived of the knowledge of who and what I was from a young age. It's a shame; I believe if sociopaths are raised correctly they could be a superior driving force forward for human civilization."

      How do you think your life would have been different if you had been 'correctly raised'. And when you write, 'it's a shame', what do you mean -- for whom and in what sense?

      I guess I can also not take for granted that I know what a 'superior driving force for human civilization' might mean to a sociopath -- if human civilization is about a social contract or if it isn't.

    5. one more question: how do you relate to the idea that people are responsible for their own feelings, thoughts and behaviors -- and not for other's feelings etc.

    6. Just because someone is affected by an ASPD or scores high on the PCL-R doesn't automatically make the 'evil' or criminal.

      Have I been a criminal? Yes. Have I done things that most people agree are 'evil'? Yes. Am I now criminal? No. Do I now do things that are considered evil? No. And why? Because I now understand how my mind works. How to circumvent situations that would cause me to make bad decisions.

      But that isn't the be all and end all of me as a person.

      If I had known about my personality younger, understood it more fully earlier, there is no reason I couldn't have avoided the negative situations and actions I was involved in. I come from an upper middle class, 2 parent home in a fairly peaceful city. Had I understood my propensities before I hit high school I would have behaved very, very differently. And I could have bypassed the decade and a half of confusion that followed.

      The problem is that a diagnosis of ASPD is usually hidden or treated like a negative. Which it isn't. It is simply a difference in personal affect. We react differently to stimulus than 'normal' people. If I had been educated about it I could have compensated. I could have been much higher achieving and directed my energies towards positive causes.

      I know live a highly regimented lifestyle. Reclusive, but not cut off. I have enjoyed the same position in my company for 6 years (longest job I have ever kept). I have responsibilities and quite a bit of access to power that COULD be used for large scale criminal acts. But I don't because I now understand WHY I think of these things. I understand I have a personal weakness for pushing the limits of Law for my own benefit, or just for the hell of it. And I reason myself out of doing bad things.

      I am now a 'law abiding citizen' and 'productive member of society'. I make excellent money and live very comfortably. I have no urge to destroy that. Whereas 10 years ago I would have blown it off for a weekend drug binge.

      Self discipline and self awareness are the 2 key ingredients to raising socially successful sociopath.

      And given that the world is basically run by sociopaths... I would think that programming some of them to be 'good for humanity' from a young age would be appealing to the general public who seem to be too stupid and inept to wrest control from the bad guys who rule the world.

    7. "Self discipline and self awareness are the 2 key ingredients to raising socially successful sociopath."

      Your case is convincing to me. I feel that I can relate to your pov with everything except the last paragraph.

      I believe that I largely run my own life within constraints, I am not a sociopath... So how could a socio be running my world? anyway that is not serious like the rest.

      Do you think that you missed out then? Are you angry or disappointed about having to go through those 15 years of confusion? I'm asking i guess how you relate to people and the world in general emotionally now as compared to before.

    8. I don't relate emotionally. I use logic and reason to operate within societies norms.

      Everything is a formula; net benefit resultants.

      Am I angry or disappointed? No, not really. It was this period of confusion that lead me to the clarity I now have.

      And, I now have a tonne of awesome stories to tell the grandkids in 50 years... after the Statute of Limitations runs out.

    9. When you wrote 'it's a shame' I was wondering if there was an emotional colour to that.

      Were you angry before you became self-aware and got through the confusion. Did you have feelings about the confusion?

      I won't pester you with questions of emotions past this.

      When you write everything is a formula and I don't relate emotionally, is that really zero emotions throughout your entire life?

    10. No... I have emotions. Unfiltered they are caustic and self destructive.

      With logic, reason and clear 'rules' that I force myself to live by, I keep these emotion in check. Partially by controlling my environment and partially by controlling my reactions.

    11. "We react differently to stimulus than 'normal' people. "

      I guess part of that reaction at times are these emotions too. IDK if you could give a before/after example and what you mean by caustic. If you feel like you want to share that.

    12. " if you could give a before/after example and what you mean by"

      I don't give examples because they are singular, and I don't like extrapolation.

    13. Yes. It's easy to overgeneralize.

      "I am now a 'law abiding citizen' and 'productive member of society'. I make excellent money and live very comfortably. I have no urge to destroy that. Whereas 10 years ago I would have blown it off for a weekend drug binge."

      What were motivations, ideas or beliefs that led to this change?

    14. "And that isn't our fault. It's the fault of the misinformed, weak drones that bear and raise us."

      Does it matter to you whose fault it was? I mean is attributing blame a regular feature of life?

    15. "What were motivations, ideas or beliefs that led to this change?"

      Self preservation.

      " attributing blame a regular feature of life?"

      Cause and effect. Nothing to do with assigning blame.

    16. Only the Paranoid SurviveOctober 30, 2014 at 6:31 PM

      "Self preservation."

      It seems that the "sheep" is forcing you to stay in line.

    17. Naw... I just swam deep enough to see the bigger sharks in the pond and decided sheep are easier to deal with. ;)

    18. Anon, I noticed in your comments no mention of feeling bored. How do you get and/or manage your need for thrills? And, do you have a preference for certain types of sheep? What makes a sheep a good target? After all, I would guess that the more challenging the prey, the greater the rush.


    19. I manage my need for stimulation just fine thanks. Without resorting to 'targeting' anyone.

      And predation comes in many forms; not all are deleterious.

      I am a mature, high functioning sociopath, living a very regimented lifestyle which has been finely tuned for my particular personality.

      I am outside the scope of the stereotypical criminal SP. Basically I developed a system that works for me. One that allows me to live within acceptable social norms without great discomfort.

    20. Anon, "And predation comes in many forms." Care to elaborate?

      Just curious. I find your posts educational.


    21. I find it hard to understand the remark: "And predation comes in many forms; not all are deleterious."

      in the context of a person who describes others as weak drones or sheep and himself as a predator. that's where the question about targeting arises from in my view.

      I'm not doubting your system, it's your language that I cannot relate to in a consistent way. I mean your pov is unique too.

    22. I may have the mindset of a predator but it doesn't mean I am an active predator. Anymore.

      And it was more parasitic than predation. I am after all a Gen X Slacker SP.

      As for targeting, anyone anywhere and everyone everywhere are valid 'targets' for social predators. It's all about access and scope. If a person is vulnerable they will be preyed upon. Not specifically by me, but by the nearest, bravest predator in their vicinity.

      Like I said, I am no longer within the stereotypical parameters of sociopathy.

    23. Anon @ October 29, 2014 at 9:33 PM... very interesting, you see to want to share more about your life, then be born on line, get a name, and live the life.. btw, not everybody who's not a sociopath is "normal"... and what do you mean by after the statute of limitations runs out? expand your mind...

    24. Anon, I've really enjoyed what you have had to say. Believe it or not, there is quite a bit I could relate to even though I am not a sociopath, so it must resonate with me on a personal level. Thanks for posting here :):)

    25. Anon, Ditto Dr. Ginger. Hope you have a Happy-nasty Halloween. ;-)


    26. "If a person is vulnerable they will be preyed upon."

      Social predators are relatively rare, so a vulnerable person may or may not be preyed upon.. That rarety is important, since people aren't expecting that, and don't recognize the masks that predation lies hidden behind or even when they have actually have become prey -- because it is alien I guess or for other reasons too.

      What do you think makes a person vulnerable?

    27. There are a myriad of potentially vulnerable facets to any given individual's life. And not all are appealing or fulfill the SP's needs.

    28. Only the Paranoid SurviveOctober 31, 2014 at 9:55 AM

      “I just swam deep enough to see the bigger sharks in the pond and decided sheep are easier to deal with.”

      Well, that’s the essence of the Social Contract.
      You’re surrendering some of your freedoms and submitting to the authority of the ruler or magistrate in exchange for self-preservation and protection of your remaining “rights”, exactly like a sheep.

    29. No, No. I don't FEAR the bigger sharks... I simply have no interest in competing with them. I have no interest in predation anymore because I have created my own little homeostatic situation. I avoid the sheep and the sharks because they both annoy me, albeit in different fashions.

    30. Keep telling yourself that

    31. Anon, first you write that you changed for 'self-preservation', then you write that you rather be with the sheep then the bigger sharks, but did not fear the sharks. So what does self-preservation mean as a motivation to change?

      Also, first you emphasize your predatory past and then write that actually you were parasitic rather than predatorial. What's that about?

      "There are a myriad of potentially vulnerable facets to any given individual's life. And not all are appealing or fulfill the SP's needs."

      Yeah ok -- not hard to arrive at that conclusion unless one thinks social predators are robots stamped out of the same machine.

      Can you elaborate?

    32. Self preservation = freedom (not in jail or asylum)

      Parasitic = lazy predator

    33. I find short sentences hard to disentangle given our different attitudes to life and experiences. Do you want to be elusive?

      "Naw... I just swam deep enough to see the bigger sharks in the pond and decided sheep are easier to deal with. ;)"

      what does the phrase "easier to deal with" mean.

      "Self preservation = freedom (not in jail or asylum)" Did you fear going to jail or prison or an asylum". I mean is not self-preservation tied to the emotion of fear? -- at all?

      "Parasitic = lazy predator"
      I did not go to psychopath 101 class so this expression means not much to me.

    34. Not fear per se, more accurately annoyance.

      Easier to deal with would mean easier to manage. In order to maintain my steady lifestyle I like to avoid turbulence and sharks make more waves than sheep.

      Lazy predator would just be referring to energy efficiency.

    35. Hi All,

      Happy All Hallows Eve.

      Anon: "a myriad of potentially vulnerable facets to any given individual's life. And not all are appealing or fulfill the SP's needs." This is interesting. Which facets are appealing?

      "what does the phrase "easier to deal with" mean." I think he means that sharks bite and sheeple nibble or get eaten themselves, more or less. But, I may be wrong.

      Anon has stated that he will tell his grandkids certain tales when certain statutes run out. So he is cognizant of potential jail time. The emotion of fear . . . for him it may be more logical, like he says, self-preservation.

      Lazy predators are well described in Martha Stout's book, The Sociopath Next Door. They latch on like leeches, inject a numbing poison undetectable to the victim, then suck the victim dry: financially, emotionally, intellectually, etc. It's not an overt attack; it's way more subtle.

      Anon, "I have created my own little homeostatic situation." Glad you're stable. Enjoy it while it lasts. I don't mean this in a derogatory way or wishing you ill -- the essence of life is change. That's actually why I suggested that you might want to find 'beauty in doing good." It's called gaming for creation. Put another way: Gaming for Good. For the religiously inclined, Gaming for God.

      You're extremely clever. Aware and articulate. Like that.

      Happy fright night.


    36. "Not fear per se, more accurately annoyance."
      so self-preservation doesn't involve fear. Have you ever felt fear?

      Faust, as usual I enjoy your comments. The ways psychopaths can present themselves is interesting too -- it's a disorder after all. Somehow I like the term 'social predator' better than sociopath or psychopath at the moment since it gets directly to what the problem is.

    37. Only the Paranoid SurviveOctober 31, 2014 at 2:49 PM

      “No, No. I don't FEAR the bigger sharks.”

      “I simply have no interest in competing with them. I have no interest in predation”
      Either you're lying or you're not a “wolf” after all.

    38. June/Faust...was just reading your last comment. Very interesting. I really liked it. Are you a psychologist? :):)

    39. My interest in active predation for fun has waned as i've aged.

      Yes, I can feel fear. But my fight/flight response tends towards the fight side. Hence my efforts to reduce my exposure to situations that might lend themselves towards violence or crime.

      I do have emotions, I just don't have 'typical' reactive emotions. When I allow my emotions to dictate my actions the outcome has been overwhelmingly negative in terms of personal repercussion.

      Logic, reason and regimentation allow me to live a nearly effortless life.

    40. Anon, how did you arrive at the goal of living a 'nearly effortless life'? I mean death takes no effort at all, so what's the difference between an effortless life and death?

      Faust: "To be known for who you are and STILL be loved." This might be true for a narcissist in some cases although their notion of love is peculiar since they cannot love back, but for a psychopath, I doubt it.

    41. @Anonymous

      1) What is the correct way to raise a sociopathic child in your opinion?
      2) What’s your job?
      3) What are your top 2 favorite songs?
      4) And top 2 favorite movies?
      5) Are you asocial? ( you said that you’re avoiding both the “sheep” and “sharks”).


    42. Nearly effortless life is more a side effect of the fine tuning I have done to my lifestyle. It was never the goal. The goal was to live comfortably within social norms.

    43. 1) honestly, appealing to self interest using logic and reason to instill a sense of self discipline and worth in the child
      2) Director of IT/ Partner
      3) constantly changing
      4) constantly changing
      5) if you have read my original post then you know

    44. Ok, Anon, you are so fast with answering questions... is there any question about yourself that is important that you do not know the answer to? I mean are you a mystery or enigma to yourself at all?

    45. I am a fully self aware SP.

    46. 1) There are many ways of practicing social parasitism without breaking laws and social norms. Do you consider yourself a professional social parasite?
      2) are you bissexual?
      3) are you an atheist?
      4) do you have children?

    47. 1) yes
      2) yes
      3) yes
      4) yes, 1

    48. Thank you for your answers. Some other questions:

      1) Would you rather earn $200,000 as a professional parasite or $300,000 as an extremely contributive member of society?
      2) Are you openly bisexual or it’s secret?
      3) Do you prefer the company of women or men?
      4) Do you think that “God” is necessary for objective morality?
      5) Do you think that objective morality can not be achieved only through pure rational thought?
      6) Do you care about your child? You would miss your child if he/she dies? Your child is an empath or sociopath?

    49. DocSciFi: "Faust, as usual I enjoy your comments."

      Thanks. I enjoy yours, too.

      "The ways psychopaths can present themselves is interesting too -- it's a disorder after all. Somehow I like the term 'social predator' better . . ." Yes. It's less threatening sounding, more benign.

      ""To be known for who you are and STILL be loved.. . But for a psychopath, I doubt it." I'm not sure at this point. I feel yearning, the desire to belong Somewhere, with someone. I imagine that it can be very cloistered to be a socio at times. And when you're cloistered, which I've been by miles and miles of mountains and tundra, you reach out to the wind, bears, wolves, whatever is around. They become the mirror for your ego -- and that leads to something else. Least for me it did. Anon is a mammal, a human, a social animal. He needs contact and the chance to open up and not be judged. He's said as much. He may be cold but he's not immune to human contact. Correct me if I'm wrong, Anon. Why are are you here otherwise if not to reach out?


    50. Dr. Ginger: "I really liked it. Are you a psychologist? :):)"

      Thank you Dr. Ginger. But no. As an astrologer and counselor of battered women, however, I've had some training.


    51. Anon:
      1) yes Are you in finance? hahaha. Really, I am curious.
      2) yes You swing. That's great. There's hope, then. ;-)
      3) yes OK. I can relate. But do you think that there are forces at work in life that supersede your will? If so, what? How do you relate to that force?
      4) yes, 1 Here's the dig, my friend. If you have children, which I believe you do, then may I ask, What kind of world do you want to leave behind for your son? A game show? In which every living thing is exploited? A world in which the air, water, on and on, are only available for a price? What about tigers? Elephants? Do you think he'd want them around?

      I am old, anon. Twice your age. That's why I'm blunt. Time is short. Tomorrow is All Souls Day. I do appreciate your brute approach to answering questions. Your coldness comes across authentic, which makes it rather endearing.


    52. 3) constantly changing
      4) constantly changing

      Very slippery, Anon. You obviously know that the stories we like reflect our own narratives. Smart and fully functioning, like you said. However, give us a break. You're Anon. On Socioworld. If someone wants to find out who you are they likely will . . . so what? Honestly, there's so many known socios out there -- least I can spot them, usually. As Camus said, "Hypocrites never lie about their pleasures."

      Name one story/movie/song you really like. Harry and I have shared. What's the harm?


    53. Anon, One last thing you said: "When I allow my emotions to dictate my actions the outcome has been overwhelmingly negative in terms of personal repercussion."

      Ah. You're not alone. Everyone experiences that, sooner or later. Unless you're violent, too degrading, etc., you can find a way to express that stuff. I think; please correct me if I'm mistaken. I've listened to rage and moralizing, etc., often enough, and grew fond of the person in spite of their tantrums. The beast lives in us all. My inner wolf is not acceptable to everyone, but to enough folk to keep a decent conversation going.


    54. Faust, it depends on what one means by love. I suppose if one makes it general enough then it is possible, but psychopaths see other people as objects.

      "I am a fully self aware SP."

      It's not within my capacity to take anyone who says they are "fully self aware" seriously.

    55. DocSciFi: "It's not within my capacity to take anyone who says they are "fully self aware" seriously." You're right; isn't that typical, though? Not only of socios but everyone else, to think you're aware of yourself and everything else?

      At the same time he said what he said -- he's tired of keeping secrets, i.e., his secret lack of sentiment, colored darkly.

      You're right about the objects of love, too. Camus . . . We worship what gives us pleasure. Beauty, creation or destruction. ??? I realize that I don't want the same things from life that others do. I still think he wouldn't be here unless he wanted to connect somehow. How, I suppose, is the question.


    56. Well I haven't seen him ask anyone questions so it is hard to say what one means by connection. I also have never heard anyone say they thought they were 'fully self-aware'. To me both of these features sound intensely narcissistic.

      It's about taking things with a larger grain of salt sometimes than one would typically be inclined to do. I don't take this guy seriously anymore.

    57. I am completely honest with myself. I know who and what I am.

      I don't care if you believe. I came here to share, and I did. You all can dissect my comments to your heart's content.

      Judge me, evaluate me by your pathetically narrow standards. I don't care. You are all just shadows on the wall to me; pale reflections.

      You claim to see the spectrum... but attack anything outside the scope of your understanding.

      Sad, pathetic little people. I thought I might find peers.

      Evidently I was wrong.

      Oh... and by the way "On Socioworld. If someone wants to find out who you are they likely will" - Best of luck with that. $1K to the first person who names me.

    58. You said you live a "highly regimented lifestyle". Do you ever get bored with it? Like it's missing something?

      > Sad, pathetic little people. I thought I might find peers.

      What is it that you're looking for?

    59. "You claim to see the spectrum... but attack anything outside the scope of your understanding." Anon, I hope I don't get thrown in to this category : / I've been pushing for changes in the field in how PD's are conceptualized, and I really like some of what you have had to say.

    60. "Sad, pathetic little people."
      If you think so that is your prerogative.

    61. Actually, I believe I said that I was here to understand the spectrum. Not to judge.

      As for finding peers, I'm sure you'll find some eventually.


    62. I'll clarify the reason that I don't take seriously a statement that a person makes to be "fully self-aware". My reasoning is that self-deception is an intrinsic inalienable part of being human.

      It's like an uncertainty principle in quantum mechanics, or the statement that the universe or anything complex for that matter is not fully knowable.

      To claim to be 'fully self-aware' is to claim to have no self-deception. I don't believe that is possible.

    63. "Judge me, evaluate me by your pathetically narrow standards. I don't care. You are all just shadows on the wall to me; pale reflections.
      You claim to see the spectrum... but attack anything outside the scope of your understanding."

      Not me. I'm just really curious and not judging you. I'm trying to understand psychopathy from a scientific perspective. My hypothesis is that “psychopathy” is not a disorder or a disease, but an Evolutionary Strategy (see Maynard Smith, 1972) specialized in deceptive mechanisms often (but not always) used for social parasitism and/or predatory behavior. Please answer my six questions.


    64. "Sad, pathetic little people. I thought I might find peers.

      Evidently I was wrong."

      This is the cherry on the cake right there.

      You are the poster child for pitiful narcissist who desperately wants to be a sociopath.

      Yes, keep telling yourself (and us) what a strong, brilliant sociopath you are, you big, strong predator. Especially while acting like a passive-aggressive little bitch.
      It is hilarious!

    65. I read that if you want to quickly clarify whether someone is more psychopathic or more narcissistic, say something to them that indicates they are not perfect in your mind, that could be taken as a slight.

      A narc will typically produce a big reaction, start outright insults etc. A psychopath could really care less. It's the lack of self-awareness that plagues narcissists which is why most never realize what they are.

    66. @DoctorSciFi
      ASPD and narcissistic tendencies aren't mutually exclusive.


    67. ce, indeed. i think all cluster b's are perhaps one disorder (long story),

      some are more psychopathic than narcissistic even if they have both tendencies -- that's all i meant. this reaction to perceived slights is a 'tell'.

    68. What's the long story?

    69. He/she said "Anti Social Personality Disorder with Narcissistic Tendencies".


    70. ce, that's true. Don't want to get into a long story now. I meant that this tell indicates how a person relates to others, are they seeking validation from outside for their perfect selves -- then self-awareness too.

      The tell is an indicator for pathological narcissism irrespective of anything else. Especially if it is a habitual pattern.

      And how psychopaths see others in relation to themselves is quite different than NPD in the pure case.

    71. When ya gonna tell your long story? :)

    72. Dr. Ginger, I don't want to insult your or anyone else's intelligence on something that is just a hunch up to now based on the observation that it is rare for a person with a cluster B diagnosis to not also have traits of other cluster B disorders or even full-fledged co-morbidity. And also the fact of this NOS diagnosis in PDs. I also guess that some professionals have also the same view although I don't know that either for sure.

      I think the fundamental problem in cluster B is severe distortions in perception of self and others. Well that doesn't say much does it?

      After I have read " Psychoanalytic Diagnosis, Second Edition: Understanding Personality Structure in the Clinical Process", which was recommended to me and a few other things, maybe i can say some more.

      Thanks for your interest. What do you think about this topic? or What are your thoughts in general?

    73. I don't mind hearing (reading) your views :) I'm actually curious what others perceptions are. I just interviewed with a private practice where the psych works primarily with PD's. He's interested in me because I have been studying them since my first abnormal psychology course. Probably even earlier, but that's when I really developed an interested. He also has a PD. He's very perceptive. Makes me a little nervous, but I suppose if anything is discovered he would probably be less judgmental than a lot of psychs would be.

    74. Your comment is rather timely. I identify as borderline, but just today I was thinking how much I can identify with certain things when it comes to sociopathy. I've never been through long term therapy, but a couple of times in my life I went and saw a therapist for 2-3 sessions. I've always been pretty introspective, and never really felt like I needed any more, just enough support to get me through whatever I was going through. I remember meeting with a psychologist about 3 years ago. He was sitting across from me, and I began relaying some of my disturbed thoughts to him. As I was talking I was looking around the room not really paying attention to him, but when I looked over at him, he was glued to the back of his chair, and his eyes were very wide. He was terrified of me. I realized at that point I must be pretty disturbed. He started telling me these are spectrum disorders, and some borderlines lean more towards the sociopathic side.

    75. How did you feel at that point, in the psychiatrists office?

      I'll try to think of something coherent to say...

      Mainly it's that the cluster b disorders are historically defined, not on the basis of some empirically derived theory though.

      So it makes sense to me that most people would fall in with a mix of traits of more than one disorder. The constructs for each are rather loose and ill-defined, particularly NPD -- and separating psychopathy from AsPD. so if you have a mess like that maybe there is a good reason for the mess. Maybe they are all different manifestations of one underlying disease process. Cluster B's are about human relationship problems so it seems that the sense of self and perception of other selves is what it is about. Then there are factors like emotional dysregulation etc.

      But if people are truly unhappy, which many with NPD/BPD/HPD and I guess AsPD are, then you will see lots of 'bad' behavior because they are deeply uncomfortable in their moment-by-moment existence. I'm talking about the people who have not been successfully treated or able to recover. I don't think these are necessarily life-long conditions (that qualify for the label 'disorder') either. That's just saying that treatments are inadequate.

      indeed BPD used to be the most despised disorder because it could not be treated and because of the mind set of psychiatry to treat with disdain that which it cannot treat... Nowadays it is the most responsive to treatment of all the cluster Bs.

      what a rant, huh?

      I think psychiatrists or psychologist who specialize in PDs are the only ones worth dealing with in general, for someone with a PD. Another opinion! unsubstantiated, unjustified... oh, well. you asked.

    76. "How did you feel at that point, in the psychiatrists office?" There was a post on here I read awhile back about a student who took a philosophy college course, and they covered the topic of evil. Apparently what she said was highly disturbing to the professor, and he asked to speak with her in private, and told her he thought she might be a sociopath. She said it felt like a slap in the face. I remember feeling like there was something really familiar about that story, and I think I would describe my experience similarly. On the one hand, I have these evil, sadistic thoughts, and was just being honest, not trying to guard any of it with the psychologist thinking he was a trained professional so it wouldn't really effect him, but when I saw his reaction, it was kind of like the slap in the face the student described.

    77. I'm trying to understand what you mean by being 'slapped in the face'. How did you feel then?

      I guess, if I were in your shoes, I would have felt insulted that my trust had been betrayed -- that instead of supporting my determination to be forthright about whatever is going on inside me, the therapist is judging me, reacting as if I were not fully human. I'd feel frustrated, dejected, resentful, hurt, upset and shaky. Everyone is different though in how they would feel.

      It doesn't seem like fun to have to hide one thoughts and feelings even from a trained professional who is being paid to listen to you and help.

    78. I thought it would be a safe place to examine my deep, dark thoughts. I thought if there was any place I could be open, it would be with a trained psychologist. I never in a million years thought he would be effected the way that he was. I was shocked. It’s a very vulnerable feeling to be that honest, and show a side of you that you keep hidden. Every day you put on face, and act, and do, and say all the things that you are suppose to. I feel like I share my body with a monster though, and just wanted to examine it, and better understand it. I saw him about three times, and every time he looked terrified of me. An APA conference was coming up in California, and I told him I would be there, and asked if he would be there. He said in a shaky voice, oh you’re going to be there? Lol, at that point it just made me laugh :P That was the last time I saw him.

    79. Dr. Ginger, the experience you describe would do a number on anyone -- even more so I guess since you are in the field -- I mean the shocking part.

      Like how are people supposed to get help with their demons or monsters if that's the reaction? And I guess it isn't so rare -- I mean I don't think you found the one in a million psychologist who would be terrified of you for expressing your thoughts. Maybe a person with a PD would make a better therapist than a norm for others with PDs?

    80. "Maybe a person with a PD would make a better therapist than a norm for others with PDs?" Yea, this stuff is too intense for normal people, and they can't relate to it. We are taught in school to recognize our own biases, and what populations we just can't work with. I hear from therapists all of the time how they just can't work with bpd or sociopaths. Marsha Linehan, though, can do this shit all day.

    81. Your in an unusual position Dr. Ginger. As a person with a PD and a psychologist how do you feel when you hear your peers say they can't work with people like you? God... do you feel like wringing their necks, disgusted, aggravated, dismayed, leery, annoyed?? I really can't imagine.

    82. Anon, can you expand on what you mean by "highly regimented lifestyle"? what is it and how does it make a difference on your management of day to day temptations?

    83. Believe it or not, I’m not sensitive about it, and you would think someone with bpd would be, but having been on the receiving end of borderline stuff, I TOTALLY get it : ). The only problem is is I sometimes have an almost paralyzing fear of colleagues finding out. If some of these individuals even get a whiff of the borderline stuff they think nothing of cutting you off. I’ve had it happen several times now, and truly, it doesn’t take much. All kinds of assumptions are made, and hell I don’t know, maybe they’re right. I’ve had mental health professionals I had known for awhile, and I’ll say or do certain things, and they just cut off all contact from me, so in that regard it can be scary because I don’t want any issues in my professional life. There are also quite a few that have it themselves though. I worked for a psychologist for awhile that had it, and she was pretty dark and creepy. It kind of scared me. She loved the violent types, and the more violent, the better, and she got along with them just entirely too well. She would get downright giddy when they would walk in the office.

    84. 3 weeks and no one has named me... I guess finding out who someone is on Sociopathworld isn't quite as easy as you made it sound... even with a $1000 reward.

      Yes you are all pathetic and little in my eyes. And since no one has proved me wrong up until now I have no reason to think otherwise.


    85. No one gives a shit about you, obviously.

  10. "What I learned in law school is that there are always two sides to every coin. The more you argue that certain people are worthless, the easier it is for those types of beliefs to become acceptable or even desirable as standing on good "moral" principles. The more those beliefs become acceptable, the more likely someone who is willing to act on those beliefs will come into power. The more people in power who are willing to act on those beliefs, the more risky it is for anyone to live in a way that is both different and authentic."

    I think the real issue is that these types of thoughts, feelings and beliefs do not solve any problem irl. No need for dystopia. Discussions based on 'worthiness' etc. are a dead end.

  11. Hating socios leads nowhere. They are here, have been here always. That's why I'm here, too -- to understand the full spectrum of humanity. I've thought a lot about the various arguments regarding the usefulness of emotional vacancy, the ability to game, the obsession with winning. In war or a court of law, I can see how useful that would be. Same with a mortician or scientist. Where I hesitate is having a socio as a politician, a cop, a judge or a CEO -- wielding power over the masses sans conscience does present certain difficulties for those who fall under their spell. The documentary "The Corporation" shows just how dangerous to public health and the environment that exploitation, lying and gaming can be. So, while I admire Superchick, MachEmpath and others who have gained insight and found good ways to channel their manipulations that better the world around them, I still don't want socios like Dick Cheny and the Kochs running the show. Guys like that will devour the whole world if we let them.


  12. HLhaller, Hi Harry! I'd nearly forgotten the name of the protag from Steppenwolf. Good choice for a handle!

    The thing about Hesse that I loved so much as a teen was that he clarified my own adolescent struggle between the wolf and the intellectual. Of the books I've read, Demian, Steppenwolf, Glass Bead Game, Narcissus and goldman, Siddhartha and Journey to the East, Hesse seems obsessed with the same theme of sensuality versus the mind, flesh versus spirit.

    Makes me wish I'd chosen Faust for my my alias. Maybe I'll change it . . . Goethe's prose still dazzles every time I read it.

    Now shall I read the starry pole
    In nature's wisdom shall I seek
    And know with rising power of soul
    How spirit doth to spirit speak.

    For the socios, a couplet from a young family wolf cub:

    If I were a demon in disguise
    Would you see it in my eyes?

    Would you like some eyeball stew
    or would you rather I eat you?

    June Faust

    1. Hi "Faust" 8)~

      Harry Haller at your service. I've used this handle on and off for years - I've always enjoyed the notion of transformation and change.

      So, in a way, that makes this my Magic Theatre and M.E. is Hermine - "for madmen only." 8D~

      I really didn't plan it that way, but I do like the elegance...

      I enjoyed Goethe as well. Between Engineering School and Grad School, I spent several years reading all the books I had heard about but didn't have time for while studying engineering. I still read quite a bit, but not with the same frantic energy of those days -

      That was when HLHaller was first conceived. I don't post a lot - this site is highly unusual for me - but when I do, I've mostly used this handle.

      I guess being BPD Harry Haller makes more sense than I had thought...

      Happy Halloween!

    2. Happy Halloween, Harry!

      Whatever label the doctors may give you, I will now think of you as a fellow transmortalist. ;-)


    3. Harry, I almost forgot. You said, "M.E. is Hermine - "for madmen only." 8D~

      Lol. You're right. Clever unconscious you got there.


  13. Joseph F.Smith would be ashamed to be referenced here.

    1. Why? It was not offensive.

    2. Joseph Smith should be ashamed. Unfortunately, the people who should be ashamed rarely are.

  14. Anon: "Not sure I meant it to be enjoyable.... just sick and tired of not being able to tell anyone."

    Sick and tired of not being able to tell anyone suggests to me something a lot deeper: You want to expose yourself. To be known for who you are and STILL be loved. To touch and be touched.

    As usual, I may be wrong. Forgive me being so blunt. Halloween brings out my Scorpio daimons.


  15. Did anyone else read the tweet with the article? I thought that was pretty interesting. My favorite part was "If you fall into a shark tank, you are not the victim of evil. If I push you in, well, that’s a different story." Pretty thought provoking..

  16. Only the Paranoid SurviveNovember 1, 2014 at 3:13 PM

    "Why don't we just kill off all sociopaths?"

    because it's better to focus on individual actions and not on classification of people. Besides, the government should not be trusted with this kind of power over its citizens. They would use the label "sociopath" to do whatever they want.


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