Friday, October 17, 2014

Passion and compassion

I liked this comment from a while ago:

Anon. continued -- and it goes without saying, I love the hell out of her. I love her the way a normal guys loves his dearest possession. I love her in the sense that I want her to be happy (agape). And I love her waist-to-hip ratio (eros).

I also love her in the way that if she betrays me in a way that hurts (not all betrayal bugs me) and I can get away with retaliating in a cruel way, I'll do it. And she knows that. 

A test: in order to stop your country from getting taken over - and a good chunk of the country purposefully killed and tortured (think of the Bolsheviks taking over Ukraine and causing the Holodomor) and dominating the country "forever", you need to sacrifice your wife. You must personally torture her to death. If you do that, your country will keep its autonomy. If you don't millions will suffer.

Would you do it?

I asked my friends if they thought I'd to that to my wife; they all knew the answer - and they knew that I'd reached it in about a second, without my pulse going up.
I asked the wife (also a psychopath). Her answer, "sucks to be me."

About the viewing people like machines, but still liking some: imagine you are a kid and you have an army of toy soldiers. You get into a "battle" with another kid and you lose soldiers. You really like yours (say they are elves). You don't like the orcs (ugly). You really want the elves to win, and you'll do what it takes to make it happen. Until maybe some of the elves piss you off, and then you decide that pointy-eared elves are OK, but the elves with rounded ears are really irritating - and have to go - preferably melted down, cut up in to pieces or blown up.

That explains why the German people were really great, until Hitler decided that all the really good ones were already dead (having followed their orders), and the only remaining ones were so disgusting and selfish they didn't deserve to live.

It is a childish and misanthrophic way to view humanity. It leads to a lot of suffering for the person that views reality that way.

The compassionate thing would be to hope that such a person could come around and see how great humans are and treasure all of them - including the psychopaths, normal people, etc.
But this isn't how normal people are. Psychopaths scare them and hence merit as much compassion as a pissed off snake.

104 comments:

  1. The "Devil" ALWAYS WAS the Devil. He was specifically made to BE
    the Devil. The popular myth about Satan being a fallen Angel that was once
    good and rebelled against God-the story in "Paradise Lost"- is UNTRUE.
    "I create the waster to destroy," says God in the Old Testament. "There is none
    like YOU. YOU wound, kill, and make alive." (Old Testament again.) "Satan was
    a liar and a murderer from THE BEGINNING." (New Testament.)
    That's right. Satan was purposely created to be EXACTLY who he is. He has
    his own mission!
    When Satan, (Another name for him, is the "accuser of the brethern") told God
    that Job would desert Him, God delineates certain tortures that Satan will be
    allowed to impose on Job. It is GOD that sets the perimaters of what Satan can
    do to Job. In the Old Testament, there are other examples of wicked persons
    and personages that do God's bidding-lying spirits.
    So how did the idea of "dualism" develop? There was an ancient Persian
    religion named Zoarism. It preached the idea of dualistic "good" and "evil."
    ALL good came from it's deity. ALL bad came from it's 'devil." By the time of
    Christ, it's influence had spread throughout the region.
    The fact is, God makes use of BOTH "good" and "evil" in his LONGRANGE
    plan. We have to have limited choice and be exposed to the consequences
    of "evil," so we will knowlingly reject it. Our ulimate destiny is to become
    EXACTLY like God, so me must not abuse these divine powers to come.

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  2. seriously, wut's happening to this site? hey, dear new writer, are y sure you're a socio? i'm not trying to insult y, i'm only wondering.

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  3. y know, i came here and i felt real. and now, here is becoming like one of those places who people pretend to be who they are and try so hard to show everyone who they are and wut they like or dislike. i came here and i felt pure logic. but now...!

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  4. "You must personally torture her to death. If you do that, your country will keep its autonomy. If you don't millions will suffer.

    Would you do it?"

    I think not, it's my toy, and I only screw with my toys if I feel like, not if others need to. I don't really care about the other millions, but I care about my wife. Torture her to save millions? Sucks to be the millions, I guess

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    1. Unless me or my wife would be included in the millions, then it would totally legit...

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    2. Yeah, I had the same thought. Fuck the millions. Mine is mine.
      But then think about the fact that you would be a great national hero, who sacrificed his beloved wife so that millions may live free. Think of the possibilities.

      Now I bet getting to torture and kill the bitch is starting to look like a bonus, huh?

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    3. well i know i'm gonna get bored of the wife at some point (it's a fact. it's not like i choose that to happen.) so i would rather to have more people around. and also, i couldn't stand the world so quiet. let's face it, if no ones there, being "better" or "owning" or "ruling" wouldn't mean anything.

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    4. lol I can't believe how goofy and philosophical this has all gotten...still fun tho

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    5. I thought the same. Sucks to be the millions. My spouse is my spouse. I chose them and I'm not giving them away. Fuck it.

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  5. I am not quite a psychopath. (There is a book with that title.) People join churches (mostly but not exclusively Christian here in the United States) because we want to be around other people who share most of our characteristics and delusions and prejudices so we feel comfortable, but exhibit enough differences to be interesting. Some other people here agree with me; I irritate a few people here; the vast majority are completely indifferent.

    Pathy is a spectrum. It comes with being a human being. I was talking with a very empathic person in my depression group. “You're not a sociopath,” she said.

    I asked her, “If somebody with a weapon threatened your life and physically attacked you in your home, would you grab a knife in your kitchen and stab him?”

    [Although the circumstances in my life have never come to quite that situation, they have come close. Many years ago, an abused woman pounded on our door screaming for help. Without thinking about it, I opened the door and took her in. My wife and I called 911. While we were waiting for police and ambulance to arrive, the abuser approached our house with (at least) a knife and slashed the face of a Good Samaritan who had stopped. Probably if he had gotten into our house we would have tried to use whatever impromptu weapons at hand to defend ourselves. Perhaps not that effectively. But I don't think we would have been reluctant to try and hurt him.]

    Anyway, the empath I was talking to replied, “Yes, I guess I would defend myself if I had to.” I infer that thinking about this imaginary situation disturbed her. She has been a nurse; her identity and self concept is built around helping people and caring for them.

    In 1966 in Chicago, Richard Speck, probably a sociopath (with possibly both bad genes and certainly bad upbringing) with a lifetime record of crime, broke into a townhouse housing eight student nurses (with one guest that night) and murdered all the nurses. The guest hid and escaped. None were able to defend themselves. Shit happens. Not very often, but it does. If you are not a sociopath and you get attacked, it's better to defend yourself and kill the attacker than get killed. You might need couseling for PTSD, but better that than being dead or raped and brutalized.

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  6. Comment #1 from one of the Anonymii who infest this place like vermin mice, dabbles in religious nonsense. Not the most nonsensical I've seen here, but pretty silly. There is no God. There is no Devil. [I am a closed-minded atheist religious fanatic, obviously.] There's just us. Humans. Omnivores who by a strange twist of evolution gained self-awareness. We can kill. We have (most of us) empathy, so we can care for each other.

    We are analogous to rats. Rats are omnivores. They kill and eat meet. They eat vegetables. (Balanced diet!) They get along with other members of their “rat gang.” They care for their young. Except for the silly and amusing “Willard” movies, they don't “think.” They don't invent nonsensical “Rat Gods.”

    I don't know if anyone here is familiar with a well known (at one time) British writer of the early Twentieth Century who wrote under the pen name “Saki.” He may have been a well-behaved sociopath; he certainly understood the mind-set. One of his most famous short stories (available on the Web) is “Tobermory.”

    Tobermory is a cat on an English estate. Cats, like rats, but mostly carnivorous, are fairly sociopathic (if one analogizes from human terms. Tobermory is trained to speak "human language" by a human. He observes (with feline amusement) humans fucking around and starts telling the humans at the estate what he has observed. All hell breaks out.

    http://www.eastoftheweb.com/short-stories/UBooks/Tob.shtml

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  7. Please, no one forget, I have been told that I am ruining this web site and because of me everyone has stopped posting. In the 21st Century, vermin of Internet communication are called "trolls." For a long time I strove not to be a troll. Now as I go senile in my old age, I say, "What the fuck! I embrace my inner sociopath troll!"

    I have seen trolls destroy web forums. Just as washing your hands keeps most infectious diseases from killing you (unless you hang around ebola patients), the solution to trolls is fairly easy. As someone said a day or two, just scroll. How easy is that?!

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  8. Tessa, welcome. Nothing is happening to this web site. We are rats. Human rats. Play here for a while. Then run off and do rat things until you die. It's your heritage. Well, maybe you are more of a cat than a rat. So got off and do cat things.

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  9. This post was interesting. Personally, I wouldn't particularly care if my country was taken over, I mean sure, a lot of deaths would be involved, but why would I care about them? Assuming that I could find a way to survive, I really don't see myself ever picking my country over my favorite person, much in the same way that I wouldn't pick my country over say my cell phone, my cell phone is just way too important.

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    1. RA, why do you care what other people think of what you write or how they might respond? Any comparison to rats and cats is irrelevant because they do not have the cortex, or limbic system that humans do. Why is it necessary to cut out a huge part of the human brain to talk about sociopathy?

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    2. Doc, my therapist says I am not a path. It irritates me when she says that, but so far I have restrained myself from letting my lizard brain take over and dispose of her body. On the other hand, I am getting very close to not giving a shit what you think. Do you have any suggestions on how I can achieve that last micrometer?

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    3. dont read what I write. Is that so difficult?

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    4. RA, you are not a sociopath. You like talking about yourself way too much.

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    5. Lol. This thread is giving me a side-ache. And since I'm recovering from a headache that hurts.

      June

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    6. RA, you are not a sociopath. From your first post down to the latest, you have been trying to convince yourself and anyone who would listen that you were a-- what did you call it? 'Tripath'? Still don't know what that was supposed to mean.

      You are, however, a mean motherfucker, and that in itself is respectable.

      Now, please try to keep the incoherent ramblings to a minimum.

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    7. "You are, however, a mean motherfucker, and that in itself is respectable." lolol luv this site :P

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    8. RA, if you really were a sociopath, you already wouldn't care what anyone on this site thinks of your posts. The fact that you need guidance in this matter tells me that your therapist is right. We are all complete strangers to you - if you really were a sociopath, our opinions would mean nothing. You're not a sociopath, you just wish you were. If you can't even convince your therapist of your delusions - what makes you think you'll be able to convince any real sociopaths? We can recognize our own.

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  10. RA, we'll said. All of it. Love my audio reader while driving!


    "-- and it goes without saying, I love the hell out of her. I love her the way a normal guys loves his dearest possession. I love her in the sense that I want her to be happy (agape). And I love her waist-to-hip ratio (eros).

    I also love her in the way that if she betrays me in a way that hurts (not all betrayal bugs me) and I can get away with retaliating in a cruel way, I'll do it. And she knows that. "

    I remember when that comment was posted. I resonated well with it also. I admit i sometimes do wonder if I left my partner if he'd try to kinda destroy my reputation to make it more tolerable for himself, and I can see why some people resort to that. I'd, if he would though. The hurt turns inward. I've already thought about how I would make it look real good if we came to that point. I'd have to kinda deceive him a little in a good way though, as to how we'd be better off apart. I'd have to show him the logic in it. I don't know if id trust him if I left, I'd be worried. I'd break his heart, he might start drinking again as he's a recovering alcoholic of almost 20 years. His children are his world. I'm his world. He's my world. And I love him too much to break him. He's a good man that I'm in love with. . Like the original OP person posted,, not all betrayal bugs me. My partner is like that, he can tolerate some betrayal, its like some things don't phase him and bug him, but some other kind would seriously fuck him up. It has too many ripple effects I guess.

    But that's a "what if" scenario, won't happen I don't think. But ya never know, 50% of marriage ends up in divorce. . But ya its crossed my mind like all married couples probably at some point. I'm sure it's crossed his too.

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    1. IDK if he would turn against me, but he's never talked ill of his past relationships in the past, that's what was an attracting feature to me, well except for one. Not ill of her, but just warned me with a little caution.

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    2. IDK if he would turn against me, but he's never talked ill of his past relationships in the past, that's what was an attracting feature to me, well except for one. Not ill of her, but just warned me with a little caution.

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    3. Superchick, I am glad I am not your relationship therapist. It would not be good for business if I murdered both parties during the counseling session.

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    4. I wrote the above comments that M.E. edited into the above. I'm glad that she enjoyed it. I tried to pay attention and describe my (apparently abnormal) inner life.

      There were times when my ex got like a sow in heat and fooled around with other men. I didn't take it personally. If she'd taken my money, that would have been a different story; I associated having money with freedom and ease - two of my major needs. Her infidelity bugged me because I thought I might lose her loyalty and/or catch a disease.

      Even after my ex's infidelity, I was concerned with keeping the blowjobs, handjobs, facesitting and other sex-play coming in from her. Because I enjoyed that stuff and needed it to relax. Developing alternative sources of sex and companionship would have been too much work, so it was easier to put up with her.

      Empaths couldn't understand - they couldn't understand why I put up with her despite the betrayal. At root, I figured that when she'd cheated, she'd been overcome by desire. LOL! As if I haven't ever had that happen to me.

      Years later I asked her about it and she said that she understood that I cared about money, not the other stuff. So she knew she was safe as long as she didn't frustrate me where it mattered. That was even though we (literally) had loaded guns lying around the house.

      It occurred to me that only a psychopath (like her) would be fearless enough to analyze someone like me and bet her life on her analysis.

      I recommend you, your husband (and all the other sociopaths) check out NVC - nonviolent communication. There are free groups you can go to to practice. You'll learn about how to pay attention to other peoples' needs and feelings, which makes it a lot easier to get along with them (or manipulate them). Basically, you can build your empathy muscles - a must for psychopaths. My ex and I have done it and benefited; many people think we are nice and warm now.

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    5. Wow, Anonymous I really appreciate your response.. ..very much. Thanks for the NVC suggestion. Will check it out tomorrow sometime. :-) nights. Oral is great, it's part of our performance, I'm not sure how we'd manage to live without it. . I totally get what your saying. I'm in-tuned. ;) ) good night.

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    6. I am glad you found that interesting.

      You can find copies of the NVC books online. "The Surprising Purpose of Anger" by Marshall Rosenberg is very good for sociopaths; you probably mostly notice that you are angry, not sad (disappointed) or afraid and then angry. The book "Nonviolent Communication" by the same author is very good.

      In any case, you have to practice the stuff. Just reading the book won't help you at all. So get out and see if there are some NVC groups near you.

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    7. so she is your ex now? Why did you guys get divorced?

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    8. wow it's a bit ironic to hear people talking about NVC on a sociopath website.
      I spent some time with NVC myself and have found it a useful tool for helping diffuse situations and deal with conflicts.
      Two questions/ observations: In introspection I have recognized that there is definitely a part of me that enjoys hurting others and dominating them. I very rarely express this part of me and I feel horribly guilty if i do. Yet I can still easily access this inner "sociopath," in me that contains fantasies of rape, murder ect.
      I believe that all empaths experience this but most suppress such thoughts and are unwilling to acknowledge them
      Have any of the the people on this blog who identify as sociopaths ever been able to actually touch on feelings of devotion or compassion for others even as a rare occurrence?
      I also want to add that I myself think that although i feel small amounts of compassion and empathy it is always mixed with some sort of self serving element. I believe this to be the case with all "empaths."
      There may have been two times in my life when I have actually felt pure unadulterated ecstatic love for myself and others and that was after living on a meditation center for months. I acknowledge that i share this with some pride and desire that all this has impressed someone.
      That said I think that the line between empath and sociopath is more malleable than people think. Although i see some practical benefit to labels like empath and sociopath; I don't see this as a black and white thing.

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    9. Roman - I suggest you check out liberationunleashed.com --- if you've done meditation and can focus your attention, it ought to be a cakewalk for you. The steps are, go there, read stuff, get an account on the forum and ask for a guide. They'll lead you through the questions.

      Yes, I've felt compassion and love for others (and myself). The first time happened at age 40+, which suggests that even sociopaths can change in fundamental ways.

      It was after doing a bunch of meditation and directing my attention to what was going on with other people (and then, as if it was a rule, doing things to help them). I started that practice after reading "Leadership and Self-deception".

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    10. Anon, thanks for your posts and for the resources you provided.

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    11. From what I have read and presently understand, experiencing love and compassion is wholly at odds with psychopathy. In what sense do you now see yourself as a psychopath?

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    12. Paul was a psychopath. So was Saul of Tarsus. So Saul liked watching saints get stoned. Paul was a saint - a dirty, scheming, lying saint.

      Don't believe everything you read.

      Meditation and inquiry changes your brain in fundamental ways.

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    13. I didn't say I believe everything I read. I am asking if you believe yourself to now be a psychopath.

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    14. "I am asking if you believe yourself to now be a psychopath."

      It depends on what you mean by psychopath. How would you define it? "Psychopath" has such negative connotations. I can see where someone could be psychopathic but not be so antisocial to get called a psychopath.

      It might help if you asked about particular traits. E.g. I'm utilitarian. But so are meditation practitioners (eg Buddhist monks), so that alone doesn't say much.

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    15. "I asked the wife (also a psychopath)" -- I was asking according to your own definition, implied here, whether or not you think you are a psychopath now?

      You used the label yourself so you have a definition of it in your own mind, I guess.

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    16. "You used the label yourself so you have a definition of it in your own mind, I guess."

      I wouldn't use that label to talk about me now. I have used the label "psychopathic" to describe various behaviors.

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    17. I've started reading Surprising Purpose of Anger. I find it valuable.

      Can I ask about your motivations for getting involved with NVC, meditation and other, for lack of a better word, 'healing' practises? Was it just something you stumbled upon and got more interested in as time went by? Were you looking for opportunities to be able to experience love and compassion, in particular, or make those emotions more enduring, or is it just something that happened as a by-product of pursuing other goals?

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    18. At a certain point I realized I needed to figure out what was going on with me, because I had some very antisocial habits; the sort of things which, if they make the papers, wreck your life.

      Initially I meditated for practical reasons. Later I meditated because I wanted to be able to see things clearly. I didn't do it to have certain feelings.

      I was quite surprised to notice myself enjoying others being happy or wanting to alleviate their suffering.

      My own experience suggests that psychopaths that do what it takes to transform their brains can be more loving (selfless love) and compassionate (seeing and acting on others' suffering) than normal people that just do the normal thing.

      Given my selfish, amoral and unkind outlook, trying to convince me to be a better person would have been a non-starter. Once I saw that I wasn't seeing reality and was making errors, I wanted to fix things.

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    19. Anonymous, I practice mindfulness meditation a few times a week. I believe it does change a person at its core. Like you stated, you want others to be happy and enjoy it. I enjoyed your thoughts and experiences on this thread. And yes, I believe Paul was a sociopath. It's never based if one is good or bad -- that's the one thing I really enjoy about the creator we believe in. :)

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    20. Superchick - if you do mindfulness practice, you might enjoy the process at liberationunleashed.com

      Basically, it is obvious nobody has a "self" - an unchanging separate kernel. But we all feel like we do, and it leads to suffering. Eg husband acts boorish and we think, "why me? He shouldn't do that. I have to get even. blah blah blah" - and that's a lot more than just living life as it comes.

      If you've done mindfulness practice, you've got the ability to concentrate and pay attention, which is 99% of what you need to do the LU thing. The process: get an account, post on the board asking for a guide. Answer the questions.

      The questions are about your sensory experience - nothing personal. I suspect sociopaths have an easier time with that stuff. Scatterbrained people have a harder time.

      When you really see all along that you don't have the self you've thought, it is a ridiculously liberating experience.

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  11. Sidenote: This site will not close down, people go against one another all the time. It's human nature to get on each other's nerves at some point. Look at some of UKan's gang awhile back on this site. Everyone starting striking back and rightfully so - and some older commenter's left. New ones come. Some just stick around. It goes in phases. ME's probably seen this thing before. It's sociopath world famila still. Family can get on each other's nerves, family can also make up and just roll with it. Usually it's forgotten in a few days or a weeks time. All probably be that type that eventually visits and pops in once in awhile because I'm interested in ME. but for know I'm staying a little. ;)

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    1. Hi Superchick,

      I got what you wrote about having a necessary plan for escape sometimes. Have you ever asked yourself if your partner could kill you in some murderous rage, if you tried to leave him or if he felt you had betrayed him in a way such that he went over the edge?

      I don't get all this talk about being concerned about how other characters feel about each other. I mean this is sociopathworld... Sometimes the exchanges get dull and repetitive or simply have no interest for me. However, I am always interested in what you write, my dear. I love it sometimes and appreciate it often -- your words. So that means that I care.

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    2. SC & DS. What is all this lovey dovey sweet talk all of a sudden? Excuse me while I lose my lunch.

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    3. Get a room you two!!! *wink*

      Well, that and keep posting - 8)~

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    4. well RA I see you haven't succeeded in going to the last micrometer. What's the problem?

      HL, have you ever fantisized about a three some?

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    5. god, dr scifi, get a freakin real doll https://www.realdoll.com/

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    6. there's a fairly lengthy discussion on the future of sexbots here:
      http://www.sociopathworld.com/2014/08/change-and-pure-evil.html
      you have to press load more a few times to see all the comments.
      amusing.

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    7. Lol, thanks doc appreciated. I enjoy you. I mean that, even if we both get a little fiesty with little fists. ;) . Would never try to change you. I enjoy ALL of yous. I'm sorry for my part, but just like you mentioned things about me, I felt like I had to do the same, and ya my ego took a little blow. I appreciate yr play, it's fun. I'm pooped,, we got all the kiddies costumes ready to go for party tomorrow.

      RA, you always manage to put a smile on my face by your humour.

      HL, hahaha, the temptation at times. Yes I've fantasized a little about it ..to be honest. But a man is what's needed for me to get me reeeally excited. Watching you fuck her would get me really turned on. ;) but that stays in my head right? Just my head. Shhhh. Hehe

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    8. Doc, In reply to yr post at 1157. Would he kill me or would I kill him first. ;) joke joke. :p

      RA, might have to referee. Ha!

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    9. superchick, looking at dr scifi's wuvey duvey talk,I guess you know where to go if your marriage fails ;)

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    10. Anon @ 8:00 PM If I read her correctly, Superchick has many available options to any angst she may feel. Not necessarily lovers. Her brain. She's a very smart cookie and smart cookies never lack imagination, venues and admirers. She doesn't need her husband, as most normal women do. She likes/loves him but at the same time would, if necessary, probably make do without. As all women with brains make do from time to time. It's the nature of a brain served by a cosmic vagina and other very powerful needs.

      June

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    11. June, this is anon 8..I like your response :)

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    12. Anon @ 10:31pm. Thanks.

      I'll take that to mean you mean that I am as receptively powerful as the cosmos.

      June

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    13. Superchick, I trust that you know how to handle any conflicts of interest.

      June

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    14. @ Superchick: Between Ma Haller and "Pa Superchick" Immathinkin I'd have my hands full...but what I ride it would be, I am sure! 8D~

      Being watched and group "activities" are more or less in my past. These days I'm more interested in the "one on one, I want to own your soul" angle and Ma Haller's holding that dance card. However, she doesn't own my mind so my imagination if free to go where it night... *smirk*

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    15. ...yanno...when you want autocorrect to be helpful...

      You get the idea -

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    16. HL, right on. One to one is very special and should be encouraged more. Sex is like that... intense and feeling each other's soul from within. I like to call it spiritual sex between partners. I have never had any other partner within my marriage bed. I admit thoughts come withim my mind, but it remains as fantasy. My husband knows, he calls me a little freak sometimes. Lol. We all have them if we were honest with ourselves. but it will always be tucked away within my head, I will never act on them. . Other people play outside of marriage, and that's totally fine with me, we are created differently and non-monogous marriages are very miss understood as well. My husband will look at the animal kingdom and say "these animals mate for life." I look at the other animals in the kingdom and say, we'll "these animals don't." Lolol. but I just think of the consequences afterwards. I just can't risk it. Never. :-)

      Say hello to Ma Haller. She seems like a very nice gal. I'm glad you two have each other.

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    17. I meant non- monogamous. Lol my husband got to experience what you talked about in your past. I kinda envy him that he got his release. But he always says nothing compares, nothing compares with my wife/mistress. By the way I'm his mistress too. :) I just have to be good and bad. It's in my nature. Lol.

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  12. That ebola business was "handled well" according to news? "Clever idea" to fly home the cases instead of treatment at the sites? Could it be a that a psychopath involved in some tedious desk-job in the help-organizations got severely bored, yawned and took steps to "do something to break the tedious routine of everyday life"?

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  13. I would kill or die to protect my family - wouldn't live with myself otherwise. I choose them.

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    1. me too. it's instinctive, i mean in order for our genes really to be passed on our progeny also have to have progeny, so once we have made our progeny from a biological point of view the only purpose in our life is to help them succeed in making theirs. that's a rationalization for a feeling.

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    2. god, science will take the romance out of anything

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    3. What does "romance" mean to a sociopath?

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    4. i was being more satirical...always makin fun of social norms, can't help it, it's where my brain goes

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    5. the theory of evolution has had such a MASSIVE effect on our way of thinking and perceiving about human behavior

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    6. I am sending y my agreements Radical. and because of that WHY ON EARTH ALL THE POSTS HERE ARE BEING ABOUT THESE THINGS? seriously.

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    7. HL: Yes, family's worth dying for.

      June

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  14. I agree with you about evolution. As an extreme atheist, it is difficult for me to accept that anyone ever believed in the entity we call "God." However, trying with difficulty to put myself into the mind set before the development of empirical science, and particularly the revolution caused by the theory of evolution, perhaps religious belief made more sense 500 years ago (and longer) than it does now.

    With evolution, most of us are compelled to realize that we are animals. We are conceived by “mating” like any other animals, and eventually we die like any other animal. As the only self-aware animal on this planet, we are horrified by our animal nature. So we cover our bodies with clothes, especially our genitalia, and most of us feel compelled to mate in private and to decorate our “lust” (mating drive) as “romance.”

    ReplyDelete
  15. We have emotions as well as thoughts. As a near-sociopath with some empathy, I perceive myself as being in a strange place. I am not the only person in this space. I consider the woman who cuts my hair (I will call her “KR” as a close friend, in part because we gradually discovered that the two of us are very similar in being “almost sociopaths,” though we have some twists in the parallel because she is feminine (and typically less assertive and more sensitive) than I am as a male. To further complicate the matter, she cuts my wife's hair and has become friends with her. While there' no sexuality involved (we are all past that point in our lives), in a weird way we are kind of a “threesome,” on an emotional level.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Anyway, I will make another strange comparison and analogy and talk about autism. There are at least three “species' of human beings: 1. “Normal” empathic people. 2. Psychopaths/Sociopaths. (This may be the world headquarters of “path” communication at the moment, but I have no idea if that is true) [There are quite a few possible alternatives. For example, there's the http://www.psychopathysociety.org/en/ --- The Society for the Scientific Study of Psychopathy (SSSP)  3. Autistic people. Here I will go out on my usual limb of talking with foolish assurance about something I don't know much about. I am thinking of Temple Grandin. Temple is perhaps the most famous and accomplished autistic person in the world. She written a great deal and there are books and movies about her.

    The interesting thing that I pick up from her is that as a kind of “Einstein” of autistic people (and also the fortunate beneficiary of great support from her mother and an aunt), she realized that she was very different from “ordinary” people. She realized that she (and other autistics) perceives the world as animals do, mostly in images and pictures, not in words and abstractions. As she reached high school and college age, she realized that humans were speaking a different “language” than autistic people communication/thought. As a genius, she taught herself to “speak human.” When she talks to other “normal” people she mentally translates between “human” and “autistic,” must a person fluent in both English and Chinese (very different languages in fairly deep ways) translates between the two languages when communicating with someone from the other language/culture.

    So what I am getting at, quite laboriously (so shoot me) is that we have at least three “species” or “races” of human beings on earth. I've read science fiction all my life and rather longed to meet intelligent sapient beings from other planets. Not going to happen in my lifetime. But it is interesting to me that in a (rather eccentric, and far-fetched way, I admit), we do have at least three separate kinds of sapient creatures here on our tired old planet. And we are in the earliest stages of the three groups communicating with each other and understanding each other.

    It's very late. I am very incoherent. I have several very busy days ahead. This comment is nothing more than a soap bubble about to disappear into the Internet ether and be ignored and forgotten forever. This is my fifteen microseconds of fame. Very romantic!

    ReplyDelete
  17. “If you do that, your country will keep its autonomy. If you don't millions will suffer.
    Would you do it?”

    Do you think I would sacrifice my object of love to save a bunch of strangers? Fuck them. I prefer my wife.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Please radical agnostic, don't do anything to hurt M.E. I love her very much!
    M.E. is intelligent, vocal, intiuitive, she is disclipined, accomplished and knows
    how to fend for herself. Appearence wise, I would rate her a 7. I think, like many
    women she undersells her appearence. She made some comments about her body in her book, but I think that was only to add spice to the book. She later
    amended the comments.
    Why should you want to hurt her? For transatory thrills? What did she ever do to
    you? She was looking out for her own interests when she wrote the book, but she also thought she was doing something helpful at the same time. Some self
    professed sociopaths, have credited her with helping them. Thankfully, she has
    a support system of profession, religion, family support, physical attrection, and
    enough money, if everything should fall through, and people start dying.
    There is much to ADORE about this woman. I can see it because I have
    anaylised her 8 ways to Sunday with even the small amount of information that
    I was able to complie.
    So please, don't do anything to undermine M.E. You've lived most of your life.
    At age 70, if you are in good health, you could have upwards of 30 years left to
    live. M.E., at age 30, could have 70 more years to live. Why spoil it for M.E?
    If I walk past a pretty flowerbed, to I tear it to shreds, simply because I can?
    Or do I admire the view and move on? Ownership is only a false egotistic
    concept. Nobody can "own" anything. You can "take" and "spoil" but you can't
    "own." For crying out loud, love M.E.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous 10-18 5:33 AM. I have neither the power to hurt M.E. nor the power to help her. Seldom do any of us have the power to help or benefit anyone else. Your love for her is utterly hopeless, regardless of anything I do or fail to do. I look forward to reading and commenting on her blog everyday. If it disappears, then I will find something else to do. That's all any of us do. We are intelligent animals with complex brains. We go through our lives doing stuff until our bodies and our minds stop and disappear and then we will no longer exist, disappearing like soap bubbles in the wind.

      Your passion for her is hopeless and pointless. M.E. is not particularly interested in you, except perhaps as a momentary flicker of interest and amusement. As the saying goes, "Get a Life." Begin by getting a name. Find a project. Fall in love with a real, physical person in your real non virtual world. Make a real family and mess them up as all of us do. M.E. can take care of herself. I am not sure you are ready to take care of yourself. Get some help.

      Delete
    2. Anon, my thoughts went to sadism, cruelty, and torture when I saw you post, but since I have been trying to reel my aggressive side in I decided I'm not going to say anything mean to you.

      Delete
    3. lol I luv how he obsesses over her 24/7, and has "analyzed her 8 ways to sunday", and then he only rates her at a 7.

      Delete
  19. wut you're saying uo there anonymous, can happen with a soiciopath(seeing it, and moving on, not tearing it just because of the good feeling of owning something) can happen only if they have sth else in life that makes them feel the power and success and all they want. so that's why i mentioned earlier, we should use our perfect abilities to get ACTUAL POWER. i hope y all understand wut actual power is.

    ReplyDelete
  20. wut part didn't y understand?

    ReplyDelete
  21. Hi everyone, Compassion comes and goes, I think. One study I read suggests that suffering reduces compassion. In other words, the more ill you feel, the less sympathy you will display. So our ability to feel affinity with others depends partly on how we ourselves feel. In Catholicism saints were often chosen by their ability to carry on with their duties, giving charity, whilst at the same time suffering an illness, for which they never complained.

    On the other hand, at work this past week one of my tenants died. Alone in a filthy room, all of his friends at the hotel except one deserted him. I heard one 'friend' complain that JB should have given him the 30 bucks he asked for, because JB would soon be checking out. His cold talk of "loving" JB never considered making his soup or holding his hand. My point is that JB was one of the most generous and kind tenant I've ever had, yet in the end all the people he helped, except for one, let him die alone without any comfort. At first I was outraged, and then it dawned that all of these tenants are also suffering. Perhaps they also couldn't face death when they themselves are dancing with Hades every day.

    In any case, seems to me that compassion, like passion, is expressed differently, in varying amounts, depending on how we feel and the situation.

    June Harvey

    ReplyDelete
  22. June, whole-heartedly agree with what you wrote. There is a corollary too -- that often times people who have in the past experienced great suffering are able to offer more compassion than they would have otherwise. Or they become bitter, or they become detached and indifferent to others, or they envelop their suffering in wrath and hostility to others as a way of recovery.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Doc, So true about past suffering leading to either bitterness or compassion. Since you love sci fi, I'm reminded of a short story in an anthology entitled, Pump Six. The story (can't recall the title) is about some twenty somethings in the future who've been medically altered in a way that allows them to eat, bath and drink chemicals. All the environmental pollutants in this bleak new world produce no ill effects to these so-called humans; they are immune to pain and can regrow their limbs, carve themselves and each other up for fun. One day they find a starving dog and take it under their wing. The group spends part of their earnings to feed the dog, which is considered an exotic pet. But then they discover just how high maintenance it is to sustain a living creature -- a creature that is fragile and requires special care. So they let the mutt go, with hardly a thought, except that they'll save a bit of cash and worry.

      In the way that the story exemplifies how 'immortal' beings tend not to feel empathy for others, I tend to think that a lack with the personal experience of suffering can produce callousness.

      June

      Delete
    2. June, loved your story. You have a good memory for detail.

      As you may know people in positions of power tend to have less empathy than others. What is less well known is that the same person will display more or less empathy depending on how much power they have in a situation. That's been shown in experiments as I recall.

      Never having truly suffered is akin to never having been truly weak (not exactly the same but close). I guess what I am saying is that the routes to callousness are many fold. It's easier to blame the sufferer for their misfortune if one has not been there one's self or to simply not see suffering, not process it's existence -- it's not even denial, but blindness.

      Delete
    3. Doc, Thanks. I love stories, too.

      Abusing positions of power seems practically inevitable. I guess that's what's meant by power always corrupts. I can think of times when I've used my power -- with words -- to hurt others, too. I can feel it when it's about to happen, don't like it, but don't always stop, usually because the person has pissed me off and I'm out of patience, the elder sister of tolerance.

      I've often wondered whether blaming the sufferer is denial or blindness . . . sometimes I think it's closer to self-justification of some kind. It's so easy to judge others but not yourself, especially if you're living the high life. Then again, I tend to think that if you're living as a sentient being, you're suffering, whether or not you realize it. There's something awful about the beauty of being alive; perhaps it's simply the body's awareness of impending death. There's something terribly lonely about being human that no sex or conversation can slake. Fraid I can't explain it better than that.

      Processing suffering . . . reminds me of the now defunct? theory of mirror neurons. The great gift and horror of allowing ourselves to truly feel how others do is that there's no where to hide from all the crazy laughter, stupidity, genius and tears.

      June

      Delete
    4. June, "There's something awful about the beauty of being alive" -- couldn't say it better myself.

      Delete
    5. Coming from you, Doc, I take that as a very nice compliment.

      Nice. Did I really say that? On sociopathworld?

      Meh.

      I guess.

      June

      Delete
  23. I´m not scared of psychopaths, because I know their secret: they want revenge for being unable to give/receive love! If they "come at me" I just defuse the situation by explaining this to them. If they surround my apartment wanting to sacrifice me to a cornfield scarecrow I´ll tell them I know "the Bee-Keeper": this will make them go home. He´s far scarier, he´s from the netherworld. just watched a movie where a guy in deep psychosis imagined himself to be Orpheus looking for his pale Eurydice, creepy stuff! But very "scorpian" in nature. I think socios secretly fear Scorpio, he´s like a "spectre sociopath" from a haunted house. Somehow worse.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Dear Radical Agnostic:
    The reason I addressed you personally in my prior posting is because I HAD
    read some of your postings where you indicated you wanted to destroy this blog.
    When someone says they want to destroy something, and the person seems as
    intelligent as you, I take them at their word. I glad to hear you have no desire to
    do it, or is it that you just don't believe you CAN do it?
    As far as informing me that my "love" for M.E. is "hopeless," you are not telling
    me anything that I don't ALREADY know. My "love" for ANYONE would be
    hopeless, and that is the way it's been for MANY years.
    There is the REAL world, and my IMAGINARY world, and the two NEVER meet.
    Only fantasies can be controlled. Unless you are a sociopath of course, and you
    try to live out your fantasies. That's what serial killers do. And I don't have the
    agressiveness, and the risk taking courage to do that.
    Because the real world is too dull and harsh for me, I do antisipate that I WILL
    take my own life at some future date. It ultimately comes down to whether I
    would like to leave on my OWN terms, or on a sociopaths terms.

    ReplyDelete
  25. My main addiction, besides breathing oxygen, hydrating my body with fluid, and consuming (too much, but under reasonable control) food, is being an asshole. I have never belonged to “AA” (a religious delusion group for struggling with addiction. It started as “Alcoholic Anonymous,” and like a mutating amoeba or paramecium evolved into a variety of “Twelve-Step” Groups. At least 34 listed at Wikipedia, with some close variations as well.

    I am about to propose two new “12-Step Groups.” Each appropriate to call themselves “A.A.”; though I imagine we would get sued. (I imagine that the acronym has been copyright, registered, or otherwise laid claim to by some amorphous group that thinks it has been created by the imaginary being known as “Something greater than myself.” (Any self-respecting sociopath – perhaps an oxymoron – certainly does not believe in “something greater than myself.” I have very little so it would be nor worth to trouble to sue me unless you really want four aging hens who can barely lay one egg a day. So here goes.

    A.A. : ASHOLES ANONYMOUS. If you decide not to be an asshole, you will be in deep trouble. I leave the shitty exploding details to your imagination. Wipe your imagination carefully after you let it out.

    A.A. ANONYMOUS ANONYMOUS. Here, I will demonstrate how it's done. I am not an agnostic. I am an atheist. I am not radical. Nutritionists insist that “free radicals” are bad for our health, and that apples counteract free radicals. I ate some apple pie and yoghurt for breakfast. With one fell swoop I fought the free radicals in my body and engaged my sugar addiction.

    But I will de-anonymize myself more. My name is Steve Kahn. That's almost my birth certificate name. I have no middle initial or name. I am 70 years old. I forget my blood type. I don't know my DNA profile but I presume I have one.

    How many anonymice are there on Sociopath World? Come on out of your mousehole. You have nothing to lose but your meaningless mouse life. Here's the neighbor's cat. Here's my four hens, who like to peck mice to death, but are too old and feeble to pull it off anymore. (I bought them some live mice and the hens gave a feeble peck and let the mice escape into our woods, where they soon fell prey to the snakes, eagles, owls, raccoons, and other predators who live in unnatural harmony with my wife and I.

    I don't have time for futilely trying to destroy this web site today. Please answer this comment. I won't read your comment until Tuesday at the earliest, if I am still alive by then. I am lying.

    ReplyDelete
  26. RA, your writing resembles at times word salad in schizophrenia. It's interesting that you can simulate that so convincingly sometimes. I don't see you as an asshole. You want to bring lots of attention to yourself that's all.

    ReplyDelete
  27. DSF, although no one can fully diagnose themself, for the current second, your analysis rings true. Even though you are a fake doctor of science fiction with a degree from a Caribbean diploma mill, and hardly know who H. G. Wells is, much less John W. Campbell, Robert Heinlein, Isaac Asimov, much less Philip K. Dick (far more psychotic and brilliant than I am, though he cheated with pharmaceuticals), I think you are spot on. Oh, yes, I lied about not coming back. If a liar tells the truth, is that schizophrenic word salad. I think I am paying attention to you. But once again I am lying.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. RA, I do try to distinguish between an analysis and an observation. SciFi means not what most seem to think it does. I have a bit, a small fragment of a sense of humour about myself. I am a scientist by training and career (not related to any topic here), I don't take this too seriously. I try to think, you know, rationally, but that lack of seriousness is there. Which means it is very serious. Do you see my point?

      Are you anxious these days?

      Delete
    2. Trying to get my slipping mind to calibrate the difference between "analysis" and "observation" inspires me to be a wee bit (is that in metric system or "English" system that we "exceptional" Americans feel compelled to cling to as who knows what god wanted us to measure with besides inches or toes or erect or flaccid penis)?

      There is nothing more humorous than seriousness. And nothing more serious than humor impairment. A day when nobody at SW makes me laugh with their stupidity is a day when I am compelled to look in the mirror. I think a point only exists in a two-dimensional universe. When I was taking geometry and algebra in high school, non-Euclidian geometry sounded rather intriguing to me. I thought it would be a religious experience to understand it. I was surprised to learn that God created a three-dimensional planet but a non-Euclidean universe that only he and Einstein and a few other genii understood. I presume you fall among that number and I admire you extravagantly. Where did you graduate, and in what branch of scientific pursuit? My daughter graduated in biology, studied horticulture, and now is rather distinguished in medical mathematics, having an uncontested paper on ethics of juvenile liver transplants published (or will be one of these years) published in a prestigious (for those who follow these obscure genres) publication. In my case, the fruit falls far from the tree.

      Delete
    3. I was trying to ask what units "anxiety" is measured in, and whether those units are metric or whatchmacallit.

      Delete
    4. RA, are you able to identify when you are feeling anxious or bitter or contemptuous or confused or unfulfilled ...? Forget about units.

      Whatever my respective background in detail is does not matter and is not something I share on public anonymous forums at all. However, I arrive at this doesn't matter and why would anyone believe what I wrote?

      You may not have gotten what I meant by humour and seriousness. I meant that to be truly serious one must have humour about oneself. I wouldn't say that a humour impairment in this context is serious, it is just dumb from my pov.

      Delete
  28. "Dumb from my pov." I do look at my ugly mug in a mirror from time to time. Do you? Perhaps it might improve your pov.

    I am feeling anxious, bitter, contemptuous, confused AND unfulfilled. All at the same time. Unlike physics, in the human mind, many states of mind can occupy the same space. I am sure the largest number ever recorded is 10 to the whatever power.

    Yesterday, I learned that my daughter, her wife, and their 10 year-old, a very bright child who goes to a private school for 10 year old geniuses (for bright children of guilty billionaires and their diverse also brilliant but not so rich peers) are about to go on a trip to England and Finland.

    Her mommies suggested, "AE, in the meantime, just as a project to keep you busy and out of mischief, come up with a cure or vaccine for ebola."

    In my usual constructive way, I added, "AE, please do it in the next few months, so you can be the youngest person ever to win the Nobel prize for medicine. As you will be in Finland in a few months, it will be convenient for you to stop over in Sweden to pick up your prize. Remember, plan ahead."

    My daughter, somehow, manages to continue speaking with me. Once in a while.

    ReplyDelete
  29. When my wife (Tina is close enough because she hates that variation on her name) and I were early in our relationship, she complained early and often when things did not go her way. Our daughter and i bought her the famous Boynton picture of a cranky cat (on a tea mug) that says, "Everyone is entitled to my opinion." [I now drink from it as often as she does, but I drink coffee half the time.) I also told her that she was the victim of the "Interstellar Anti-Tina Comspiracy" (which some deluded people might confuse with God). She has decided instead of demanding that the universe do what she wants, she will tell me to do what she wants. Sometimes I do, and sometimes I don't. It's a close call, but that is why we are still married after 48 years. No guarantees. For our 50th anniversary (which comes around Thanksgiving), we might get divorced. Then we might get married again. For all I know, Jesus might celebrate our anniversary by returning. Don't bet on it.

    ReplyDelete
  30. I have a busy day tomorrow. So M.E. might just as well publish some new stupid comment. I won't have time to read it and try again to murder this web site. It's a web site that has more lives than Jesus. Or the Terminator.

    ReplyDelete
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