Friday, October 3, 2014

Brain development

From a reader re this post:

The reader says that he considers himself intelligent and lists a few things that supports his claim. He also describes himself as analytical and emotionally shallow. This reminds me of an article that I read once about the brain development in children who are beat during their childhood vs children that grow up under safe circumstances. It does not exactly describe what the reader is conveying to us, but there is a comparison. Before I start describing the comparison I am making, I would like to say that the article about children's brain development was written from the view of what I think was a brain surgeon if I remember correctly(or maybe it was a scientist with specialization in brain functioning). Either way, the article was not written from the view of a psychologist, which then most likely would have created a very different article. 

The article gave information on how children who are beat regularly and grew up in a stressful aggressive environment develop larger areas in the brain for aggression and fear. This will eventually take up so much of the available mechanics of the child's brain that abilities like logic and analytical skills will suffer. These children grow up with behavioural problems, problems in school, conceptual problems and with the consequences that this follows. They are driven by their emotions, negative ones in this case. Again, a psychologist migh describe this differently, and there are probably many interpretations of problems like these, but this was from the view of that brain surgeon/scientist.

Children who grow up under good conditions develop larger areas in the brain for handling logic and analytical abilities. They have smaller areas in the brain for fear and aggression. They'r total amount of mental capability is probably the same as of the troubled children, but all their mental abilities go to other resources of the brain then their counterparts.

The article further described how the frontal lobe(I think it was the frontal lobe) continues to develop in humans up to the age of thirty, and stated how that was the prime factor why teenagers were more emotionally directed in their decision making then adults in their thirties and above. With a better developed frontal lobe, a person is more calculative, has better cognitive and decision making abilities and is less directed by emotion.

I spent some time following discussions on the guest forum for MENSA in the country where I live. From what I can see, they have a very analytical and factual approach to all kinds of discussions. You will never see them emotionally tantruming, or being in any unfactual or unlogical. These people score on the 2% top in all of society in their figure reasoning tests. Tests that for the main most part test processing speed of information, logical abilities and analytical abilities. I bet they are not sociopaths, but their behaviour could at first glance well fit into the readers description. To be factual myself, I do not personally know these people, I might offcourse be surprised. I am only speaking of impressions.

So MY question is; when is a sociopath a sociopath and not just any human with intelligente to override emotion and analyze facts? We all like to hurt the people we don't like, to nurture our ego, to feel that we affect the world around us and thus give ourselfes meaning, to nurture our own team for our own winning, to have good feelings for what benefits us and bad for what hurts us. We do not all feel empathy all the time, we are not all flowerbeings of endless love emotions(or something). I understand on the other hand that it is a far jump from this to alot of what M.E. describes in her book. 

According to the information I have written here, it could be guessed that a person with a greatly developed brain for logic and analytics might have lesser development for emotions. Offcource, not every one is the same, but it is well known that they who score very high or very low on IQ tests(in the extreme ends) tend to have trouble relating to other people or to society in general. I have seen footage from MENSA members in the United States stating exactly this(youtube :). There are several articles about this on the internet as well(taken with whatever scepticism needed).

Lastly, I don't have any sources to support all this. It is all taken from the top of my head of what I can remember. These thoughts are all guesswork and pieces of information that I have put together. I am not saying that everything on the top of my head is all correct science, or in any way not debatable. I have known several various intelligent human beings. Thus my perception of great intelligence amounts is not narrow minded. With this text I do not accuse people with intelligence of being freaks or diversions of human nature.


  1. I saw the film "King Kong" last night. It was the 2005 version.
    Did you know that the 1930 version had women fainting in the audience?
    Hitler loved "King Kong." He had private screenings.
    The actress in the 2005 version absolutely loved the gorilla. You get the
    impression that if it were physically possible, she WOULD have
    consumated the act.
    Many of the stories about ape/woman interaction take place in North
    Africa. It was a heavily Islamic culture. Blacks were kept as slaves there
    as they are even to this day. In one tale, a woman has an affair with a
    black slave and can't get enough sex. So someone suggests that she
    get herself a monkey, because they have such appitetes. She sees a
    troup of monkeys go by, and she signals her availibilty through facial
    jestures. They begin a torrid affair. The monkey is killed and the woman
    is desolate. So a human man stands in for the monkey, but he can't
    keep up with her incessant demands. He consults with a local folk
    woman, who prepares a medical concoction for the woman. She extracts
    two large worms that have been placed inside the victim. A black worm
    from the slave, and a yellow one from the monkey. She is cured.
    Some claim that there have been actual Ape/Human hybreads.
    The Russians had been working at the task for sometime. I wouldn't be
    surprised with today's technology if there were.

    1. Go away with your monkey obsession. Find a bestiality page or something you are adding nothing to the conversation here.

    2. Back on topic. What the poster seems to be trying to say is that abused children are less likely to develop analytical or logical brains. This seems to fly in the face of findings on sociopathy. Most sociopaths seem to be uber-rational and analytical and most seem to have some sort of emotional and/or physical abuse in their past.

      The OP says that while the MENSA people they observed seemed to present with sociopathic traits that he/she did not think they were sociopaths. What? Why? Because it does not jive with their self admitted non scientific and possibly mis-remembered version of an undocumented piece they read somewhere? Not buying this just on general principles and well, logic.

      I think the reason those of us with high intelligence have a hard time related to "normal" people is the same reason a normal person would have a hard time communicating with a dog in any meaningful way other than for fondness. Let me try and put it nicely. You are boring. Really really boring. You don't good. You mistake your emotions for logic.

      You form your political, scientific, and spiritual beliefs based on your emotional attachment to the charismatic appeal of the person you are parroting them from without applying critical thinking or research to support them. You are dumb, and boring, and silly, and I would rather spend time with a dog than you, because while I get the same level of intelligent conversation from them, at least they are cute and furry and usually have pleasanter personalities.

      I am not going to apologize to stupid people for this attitude. I have learned to appreciate them for other things. Many are very nice caring individuals and I can respect them for that. The ones who are unpleasant people along with being stupid I just avoid. Perhaps they carry some recessive genetic material that will, in due time, produce some child that has worth. I don't think people are born stupid. I think stupid people just have not been taught how to think and most seem to able to learn if not lazy. They also do not seem to be very creative. Most people I have met who can create (crafting, artistically or musically inclined, writers, etc.) are all intelligent to boot. I believe creativity and intelligence to be wrapped together. Since it has been demonstrated that most people on the PD spectrum are creative I wonder if intelligence, creativity, and nonconformity to socio/psycho-normative behavior are more closely related than we previously believed.

    3. Anon you are getting on my nerves so I am going to help you out here. There is no way to breed human/ape hybrids. LEARN SOME FREAKING SCIENCE. What you are suffering from is a severe leaning towards bestiality. It is kink. Go explore it on a kink site. I did note you have absolutely no interest in male on animal sex so I would suggest some misogynist leanings are part of your makeup. Your mind wants to associate women with animals. It wants to make a connection with female sexuality as insatiable animal lust therefor the transference to female lust for animals. Your stories also seem to have a racist underpinnings so I am going to make some summations here.

      You are a sad little white virgin who has no friends and some really weird fetishes. I case you missed this, You are posting to a blog where the subject it SOCIOPATHS. We would be much more likely to kill an animal than mate with it. We can't provide what you looking for. Please google :"bestiality blog" if it is just ape/human kink you can add that to your key words. Then GO THERE and post to your depraved little hearts content. Or get some therapy. Seriously dude, get some therapy, your brain is a little broken.

    4. Preach it!

      I don't get why you're preaching here of all places but if it helps you to feel better when you preach to total strangers please continue.

    5. PuppyBasket - I'm sorry that you feel sad, afraid, upset and angry when people compare black people to chimps, or talk of breeding apes to humans. It isn't your fault that you are the mulatto that you are, that blacks act the way they do, or that some people notice look at blacks and think "apelike", etc.

      All that thinking and feeling is done automatically, including your disliking of it. It is the same as people fearing us for being callous, manipulative, sadistic, etc - they can't help it, anymore than a scorpion can stop being a scorpion.

      At our core, none of us have a color - and that includes apes, ape-human hybrids, humans, etc. ;-)

    6. @ANON the Chimp Guy: I'm a white guy and I think your an idiot.

      On a more constructive topic (see the tweets): it pleases me that Tracy Lakin is disturbed, Maybe she'll read the book and learn something.

    7. I don't actually care Anon@ 7:56. Kind of ludicrous to think I have actual feelings on this. I was just bored and he made a nice target. I am f-ing off instead of doing some work I need to do and he provided a target of opportunity for quick rude psychoanalysis/attack.

    8. I do however think you are a moron anon. Hybrids? Really? Take fucking genetics course. All humans resemble apes btw. Comes from being on the same genetic branch.

    9. PB.

      I too am avoiding work...*smirk* and I always enjoy your analysis.

      This chooch is getting tiring.

    10. I think Anon that you are subject to misunderstanding here. You are a toy to me. You don;t affect my life or my non existent emotions AT ALL. I just get a little intellectual thrill pointing out how utterly asinine and stupid you are. For fuck sake you found some porn on the internet and presented it as scientific fact... I am trying to get you to understand the true depth of your lack of intellect as a favor to yourself and to society. The point of my post was to draw you out and confirm that it was you who posted it and worked like a charm. You are such an easy mark it is kinda of losing it's charm as a game.

    11. PuppyBasket - this is anon 7:56 again -

      "I don't actually care Anon@ 7:56. Kind of ludicrous to think I have actual feelings on this. I was just bored and he made a nice target. I am f-ing off instead of doing some work I need to do and he provided a target of opportunity for quick rude psychoanalysis/attack."

      You are either uninsightful or dishonest. As you wrote earlier, "Anon you are getting on my nerves so I am going to help you out here. There is no way to breed human/ape hybrids."

      When blacks say "getting on my nerves" (I know this from being babysat by negresses), they mean they are getting angry.

      Anger doesn't feel good in the body. It is uncomfortable, and leads to hatred, which also doesn't feel good.

      The only way to get past all this is to accept that people are a lot like apes, and that blacks are a lot more like apes than the rest of us humans, and that pretty much all humans are able to notice it.

      That's the cold, hard facts. I used to hate blacks for acting like apes. When I considered that I didn't hate apes for being like apes, I realized that if I came to terms with things, I'd be able to love everyone.

      E.g. imagine today you, passing by a zoo, get attacked by a runaway chimp. Will you hate the chimp afterwards? No. It did what chimps do.

      Imagine a half-chimp half-black hybrid escapes from a lab. It has been genetically engineered by inserting approximately 50% chimp genes into a human genome. It looks and acts like something you'd get if a chimp and a human had a natural child - an impossibility - but that's how it looks and acts. It attacks you. Will you hate it? No.

      Imagine a 75% black human, 25% chimp attacks you. Will you hate it? No. it is just doing the sorts of things it does.

      If one proceeds with this analysis, one can come to love anything.

      E.g. you hate white racists and love blacks. Imagine we insert 12.5% white racist genes into a black. It looks and acts black, but now and then you see it act like a white racist. You love it anyway.

      Then we make a 25% white racist, 75% black. It acts a bit more like a white racist, but is still quite black. You love it anyway.

      Continuing in this way, we eventually get to the point where it is a 100% white racist, doing what white racists do - just as mosquitoes or tapeworms do what they do - and you love it anyway.

      Of course, if you have the chance to kill it and get away with it, you'd do it, right?

    12. *DING* *DING* *DING* I think we have a winner (or at least a contender) for The Not Even Wrong Award!.

    13. HLHaller - you have nothing more informative to say other than, "not even wrong".

      Smart people see right through this.

      If you could debunk the argument, you'd do that.

      Instead you get angry like a chimp that sees another chimp eating a banana.

    14. Hello, Puppy Basket. I understand Your problem With the intelligence gap between you and others. I am assuming that you actually score high on IQ tests and that you are not just being arrogant? You have to Accept differences in life. You can never have all beings in this world in a Perfect pleasant way, many of them are total morons and oblivious idiots. Better Accept it and deal With it in a constructive way. People love those who love them, and hate the haters. They give Power to those they love, and if you want forward in life you need Power more then Your smarts. Enterprises are built by teams, and not by loners.

      If the IQ score has any meaning; I myself scored 120 on a SD 15 Mensa test. As a kid I had friends who today are physicists and always were best in theyr class. But I also had friends who were criminals, and then not the smart type. I see them both so to say. The gap between the one end of the scale and the most average of us is Equal in both directions to me I Guess.

  2. You say ' we all like to hurt'. That is an emotion, negative but still emotion.

  3. OMG laughed so hard at some of those. Thanks HL

  4. Question: If most intelligent people feel contempt for stupid people, and most empaths feel contempt for socios, and most people feel contempt for something or someone, where does feeling contempt fit into spectrum of sociopathy and/or normal? How long can one hold contempt for a person or a thing before it becomes pathological?

  5. Does anyone who is reading and posting here believe they are making a rational decision to do so?

    1. are asking a bunch of people who have already said that they are "off their tits" if this is a rational decision... Is that question even rational?


    2. I didn't say it was. Rationality is a tricky subject in my mind...

    3. I can't remember the last time I made a rational decision. I am 70 years old. It's quite possible that I have never made a rational decision in my entire life. Certainly, my choice to be conceived can hardly be described as rational, though as I did not choose to be conceived in Darfur or Moscow or in Antarctica shows that something worthwhile was in play. Perhaps it's called good luck.

    4. I'm just having a little fun Dr. SciFi -

      A more measured response would be, given what we know about our government and the world of hackers, yeah, there may be some risk of even having this conversation. (paranoid much? I try not to feed that mind set). Given that, I get mileage out of this conversation - it's useful and helpful (at least it seems to be so far...).

      As far as being "out-ed" - meh! - I'm really just a garden variety jerk. There really isn't any "profit" in long as there isn't some sort of "mob of empaths with torches and pitchforks...I guess...

    5. HLHaller, I thought your response was great!

    6. Happy to oblige -

  6. So, to try to bring this back on topic...

    I won't go over the problems that the poster has with half baked and ill considered arguments - PB did a better job than I would have.

    But, they do bring up a fair question: given that people of all stripes (e.g. noms, aspies, socios, etc) function from day to day in their own self interest - "doin life" as they say, where is the line? (if that question really has any significance, which I am far from settled on).

    A year or so I would have identified as an "alpha male" type with "big feelings" that was poorly socialized and likes novelty and can be an unapologetic asshole from time to time. Now, I see that I may in fact be what is being called a psychopath (or sociopath, or whatever). The fact that the label isn't all the threatening to me is maybe an indication... 8)~

    In this way, perhaps the poster re-iterates the staggering hole in our understanding of the variety of human experience. I am fully able to accept that I operate under a "borderline process" (I like that terminology the best so far...), but I'm not sold on the idea that it's really a disorder.

    How does that spectrum really work? I think that's a worthwhile conversation to have.

    1. Don't even get me started. I'll launch in to a tirade about how "personality disorders" are really a result of social construction.

    2. Would an engraved silver invitation be helpful? 8D~

      Actually, I would appreciate your thoughts (tirade even) on the subject. I am looking for "contemplation fodder." I don't mean to come off in a flippant manner - if the conversation needs direction and focus, please have at it - I, for one, would like the perspective. This is interesting to me -

    3. It's funny how some people have conversations with others and some only have conversations with themselves.

    4. Good observation Dr. Scifi, I noticed this myself :)

    5. HL,
      I’ll use myself as an example. Before becoming a psychologist, I had a pretty typical high functioning borderline personality type. Aggressive, combative, could be abusive and tear people down. Borderlines can also be unconventional, and very enthusiastic about things, and really draw people in with their enthusiasm for something. I always described myself as not being very emotional, but did have my sensitivities. I almost never cried, and wasn’t a screamer which is the type of environment I grew up in. It just wasn’t in my personality. I could be very vindictive too, but I also had my traits that people found likeable. I always like to joke around, and have fun. My friends thought at times I could be mean, but never considered me “mentally ill”. They would sometimes talk about some of my characteristics, but it was never in a pejorative sense. They would describe me as passionate, and a little war-y. Becoming a psychologist though has changed me. There is so much emphasis on detachment from emotion, and whenever I’m exposed to emotional stimuli, anything that would normally elicit an emotional reaction from people, everything shuts down. I can feel the switch. I don’t respond to emotional stimuli the way I once did. When I’m in that state you could drop me in to a war zone where people’s limbs are getting blown off, and I wouldn’t respond to it on an emotional level. It would just be like pure logic. Anyway, back to what I was trying to say, those same people NOW would consider my characteristics to be symptomatic of a mental disorder with the information that is out there on bpd. It has to do with our changing society. Not everyone would agree with me, but personally I feel like we live in an oppressive society where there’s no room to be human anymore. Any expression of emotion is now categorized as some form of mental illness. Any self-confidence is now labeled narcissism, and the person is deserving of abuse and denigration. It’s a scary time in my opinion. It seems like at least some of the characteristics in these personality types are an evolutionary adaptation as well as having to be adaptable in certain environments. Let’s be honest here. Borderlines would be great at warfare. Every society is predicated on violence. The things we now deem “mental illness” are the exact same traits that were valued in other periods in human history; manipulation, aggression, violence, lack of fear, etc etc. A lot of these individuals became powerful. They didn’t have a concept of a “personality disorder”. Personality disorders are a result of social construction, and the way we have designed our society, no one wants this stuff hangin around anymore. The exact same things that got us where we are today, people now want eliminated. I could philosophize all day about this, but the fact is, this is the society we are all in right now so in the interest of self-preservation, people with PD’s have to adaptable, and learn to control certain aspects of their personality, or they will destroy their lives, or end up in prison, but I don’t necessarily think it should be perceived as any kind of “mental illness”.

    6. Thanks Dr. Ginger -

      I think we are in "violent agreement" on many things and I sincerely appreciate your thoughts - they eco mine.

      A year ago I was a garden variety asshole - now, I'm considered mentally ill? Wait, what?! I am still the same garden variety asshole I've always been (trying to be less of one each day...) - how did I change? I haven't - beyond become a bit more informed about how people label each other and me.

      I also tend to see it as an adaption. If things are good and parents have the "comfort" to invest heavily in their young, that would signal an environment where aggression may be counter productive to the group as a whole. However, if things are dicey, then triggering aggressive behavior is a positive adaptation.

      Where things get strange is that the world we live in isn't as simple as that - it's more crowded and more interconnected and more fluid than we are really able to cope with and so, for lack of a better term at the moment (I haven't had my coffee yet...) we are out of fashion.

      Sadly, that suggests that there is no spectrum for us - we are in or out.

    7. Errata: "they echo mine."

    8. But, where does rational self interest go from "healthy" to "pathological?"

    9. "A year ago I was a garden variety asshole - now, I'm considered mentally ill? Wait, what?! I am still the same garden variety asshole I've always been (trying to be less of one each day...) - how did I change? I haven't - beyond become a bit more informed about how people label each other and me." They're politicized diagnoses.

    10. Dr. Ginger, thank you for sharing. About: "personally I feel like we live in an oppressive society where there’s no room to be human anymore." yep.

  7. >> Back on topic?
    There's a topic?

    >>where is the line?
    Wherever you draw it and enforce it. Or persuade others to buy in.

    >>but I'm not sold on the idea that it's really a disorder.
    First you define it as a disorder. Than you give the order. Then you enforce it.

    >>How does that spectrum really work? I think that's a worthwhile conversation to have.
    Where are we going with this? I'm reading. I'm responding. For me, that makes it worthwhile. Oh, shit. I'm probably a narcissist. What kind of response would make it worthwhile to you? From a “Soc?” From a Psy? From a Nar? From an Emp? From a dog? From a cat? From an AI? From an SK? Everyone who responds (if anyone does, I have talent at killing discussions) please identify yourself, please define and be worthwhile.

  8. Only the Paranoid SurviveOctober 3, 2014 at 1:36 PM

    Psychopaths’ deficit is in empathy, not reason.

    1. One of the characteristic traits of psychopaths is to not learn from negative consequences. Learning from experience is about using faculties of reason. So psychopaths have at least this deficiency in reasoning.

    2. Could not the same behavior be describe a stubborn and tenacious personality in some cases?

    3. Sure, like I read it is 'one of the characteristic traits' of psychopaths. Not the only one. My point is really broader -- the notion that we operate according to 'rational self-interest' most of the time is a false illusion -- that's how I see it.

      We get by. We are creatures of habit. We have cognitive biases. We have neither the time nor inclination to figure out how to optimize our self interest at each moment in time. Most people spend as much time thinking about how much the eggs they are going to buy in their lifetime will cost than the cars they will buy. There's Herbert Simon's 'bounded rationality', there's emotions, and there's the fact that are preferences are not always clear to us at all when we make choices. That's just a start.

      BTW when according to the NIMH about 9% of the US population has a diagnosable personality disorder, what does that mean?

  9. "We all like to hurt the people we don't like..." First of all, that's not true. There are people who do not like to hurt anyone... even people they don't like. The thing about trying to define people, including sociopaths, is nobody fits neatly in the little definition box. And since you can't tell what another person is thinking or feeling, you really have no way of knowing who has no conscience or regrets or empathy. You can only go by how that person behaves on any given day, or how he defines himself. And just in case anyone is wondering, I am not a sociopath. I came to this site because I have been in a very tumultuous relationship with someone who is probably a sociopath. I won't bore everyone with the details, but suffice to say this guy had me on a terrific yo-yo. "I love you" one day and get the F out of my life the next. The thing was I also enjoyed the rollercoaster ride, to a degree. I enjoyed our arguments. I found out I was really good, maybe even better, at cussing him out. So, what's my problem? I don't know. Just another kind of loony, I guess. At any rate, I don't think my ex is that smart. And I know he fits many of the other sociopath descriptions... estranged from family, no close friends, "mean" eyes, gets angry over the slightest thing and then takes it WAAAY too far, and no love for any living thing, that I know of. On the other hand, he is quintessentially charming and sexy. He's a musician, too. He knows just what to say to get his way. Nuff said.

    I really just wanted to weigh in on "everybody likes to hurt people."

    1. Lol who posted that. ^ that's one I posted before. It's a real good and long read. I put it on audio read. But one must take emotion out of the equation and put themselves in the non-borderlines shoes, or else that splitting mechanism can start. Lolol. Breathe and swallow. :)

  10. First off.. you are wrong. Not all people want to hurt others they do not like. Typically its walk away & karma has a way of taking care of it. I am an empath but very logical & hardly emotional. I have compassion for others. Wrong again.. try again. M.E. just cannot get it right.

  11. M.E. is a shill...
    her goal is to turn everyone into a Psychopath.
    yet, all the while, her, herself is not a Psychopath.
    rather a hollow shell of her former self.

    "kill an animal than mate with it."

    only cowards kill animals just to kill them.

    "There is no way to breed human/ape hybrids."

    O realy? look up the word Chimeras

    1. Chimeras are mythological creatures.
      In however way you try, it is not possible to BREED hybrids of human and apes. However if you suppress the immune system of a human and transplant organs of an ape you get something somewhat close to what you're probably thinking about. Not a chimera though.

      If you've meant the scientific term, then you're wrong again. You cannot breed ape/human chimeras. (or at least you wo't get far, the fetus will die because of the different growth ratios and hormonal interferences.)

      Oh, and you didn't seem to get that 'rather kill than mate' thing. If I was forced to choose between killing an animal or mate with it, I'd rather kill it. That wouldn't make me a coward - or probably it would, but not in the sense your comment indicated.

    2. "Oh, and you didn't seem to get that 'rather kill than mate' thing."

      Oh, and you seem to not understand what you said.
      You never said "would rather"
      you said, and I quote.
      "We would be much more likely to kill an animal than mate with it."

      Perhaps you are hiding from your own pathetic desire to hurt defenseless animals,
      I don't know, yet, the fact you said that in the way you did, shows me your intentions.
      Cause, in reality, no one assumed you would fuck an animal.

  12. they`re not called chimeras, they`re called humanzees.
    Sounds crazy, but yeah, humanzees

  13. I certainly never meant to cause a controversy with my Ape/Woman
    interaction stories. And certainly males have had relations with female
    gorillas. I would suspect that more males have had relations with any
    types of animals then females, just by virtue of the fact that males have
    more testosterone then anyone EXCEPT Psychopathic/Sociopathic females. And I'm sure most pornography involving beastiality is produced
    with a male audience in mind. The examples I quoted from were in a book, "Apes And You," by Desmond Morris. He was an advid evolutionist.
    He wrote "The Naked Ape" and "The Naked Female Body."
    Beastiality touches on male insecurity because most every man would
    like to "own" a woman-the more they merrier. Every man is insecure that
    he could "lose" his woman. He probably doesn't know what attracted her
    to him to begin with so he is insecure. He is afraid to admit to weakness,
    so he hides behind a false bravdo. His nightmare is that his fickle
    "cat-like" woman would be bewitched by someone or something more
    persuasive then him.
    On the one hand, he wants "his" girl to be "loose" enough to allow him to
    "penetrate" her, but if she does it with another she is a whore.
    Did you ever see the T.V. show ER starring George Clooney? There is a
    policy where a patient suffering from a cronic illness is asked if they wish
    to be revived if they suffer a fatal attack. On one show a man who was
    married for many years to his wife, brings her to the ER. One of the
    doctors asks her if she wants to be revived. Her husband answers "Yes!"
    But she is tired and knows it's time to let go. She suffers an attack and
    dies. Her husband holds her body and sings "That Old Black Magic."
    The whole ER is stunned to see it and listens to him sing the love song to
    his dead wife. George Clooney's eyes fill with tears. If an empath man
    loves his woman, she is HIS WHOLE LIFE. Women undersell their affect
    on men. If men are so insecure that they invent stories about gorillas
    seducing their girlfriends and wives, you can see how truly vulnerable
    they are.

    1. I like the ER story. :-) Touching.

    2. King Kong was just about a big, lonely gorilla.

      I don't think that men and women are actually all that different.

  14. This morning I woke up (after a good night's sleep). I am still me. I am 70 years old. I have a sense of personal identity. I am not you. You are not me. I am rather weary of myself. I am not ready to die; I am not suicidal, I am a self aware animal. Part of me (and I suspect this is also true of some others reading this) wishes to merge into being someone else, or part of a "hive mind" such as bees and ants experience. Bees and ants (and mole rats, the only mammals with a hive mind type of existence, technically known as "eusocial." Humans may be self-evolving to eusocial existence.

    I just found some discussion of these possibilities on Richard Dawkins' web site. Science fiction writers have explored this possible evolution of human beings. Most such projections are dystopian, most notably Orwell's 1984. At times actual human societies seem to head in this direction, most horrifyingly North Korea.

    Something peculiar seems to be going on on the Korean peninsula. Perhaps Kim Un, the current “King Bee” of that hive, is dead or dying or perhaps the rest of the “top bees” are revolting against him and planning to peacefully swarm into rejoining the Southern hive? Too deep for me. What will happen will happen.

    Anyway, some science fiction writers have envisioned peaceful and positive eusocial evolution. For example, Arthur C. Clarke in 1953 published CHILDHOOD'S END, a novel envisioning humanity (with the help of benevolent aliens) evolving into a “higher” species.

    Theodore Sturgeon's novel MORE THAN HUMAN speculates on [Wikipedia]: “The novel concerns the coming together of six extraordinary people with strange powers who are able to 'blesh' (aportmanteau of 'blend' and 'mesh') their abilities together. In this way, they are able to act as one organism. They progress toward a mature gestalt consciousness, called the homo gestalt, the next step in the human evolution. “

    Perhaps humans are headed in some direction such as this. I doubt that I will live long enough to see it happen. Perhaps it will be wonderful. Perhaps it will be dreadful. I don't know how the other sociopaths/psychopaths/and other demented people at this web site will fit in. Perhaps the new superior humanity will create a “reservation” for us. Perhaps they will simply eradicate us from the system like a bacteria, virus, or prion, no longer serving any purpose whatsoever. Ta Ta.

  15. M.E. needs to understand that empaths are intelligent too LOL & know how to over ride emotions and be factual. just sayin... testy people on here about how socio's are but speak on how an empath behaves, thinks & feels. unbelievable. that sure was not practical thinking.

  16. How about group therapy for assholes and friends anonymous? I'll be frank and say I'm a little disappointed in the intelligence of this place recently compared to what I've seen in past years at times. It goes up and down alot. Mostly I'm puzzled as to why seemingly intelligent people continue to engage with some idiots here. I'm saying that as a friend and also as someone who has been more than an idiot at times. Some people know when they are being idiots and some people never can tell the difference.

    Yes, it's about my agenda. My agenda is not to read about bestiality for instance, but about, well you know the issues that are important to people regarding personality, sociopathy, disorders, the social construct of not only these things but our own identities. All of us are socially constructed beings. Yeah there's definitely been too much emphasis on genetics -- without understanding the lifeplans and underpinnings and rules or laws of political social dynamics that get us here.

    And about power, yes Dr. ginger you are absolutely right, many people like myself do not preoccupy themselves with power unless they have a very good reason to do so. They more like play along, not really like puppy dogs, you know everyone has boundaries -- but they long to engage as free equals, so we try to forget about power.

    This of course is a huge problem when an 'innocent' person encounters a power obsessed on. I don't mean innocent in any pejorative sense or in any good sense either. It just is a fact.

    1. ps that power/trust game play -- misplaced trust and betrayal. What's the reward?

    2. Dr. Scifi, you must really like this site . Am I sensing a bit of an emotional connection to it? : ) It’s probably best to remain a little detached because I’m sure you know what it can attract. ME posted something about how comments sections can effect perception of a blog, and if she has any kind of agenda it would probably be best to remove the comments section.

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    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

    2. ". . . it would probably be best to remove the comments section." Dr. Ginger, would removing the comments section not be akin to a kind of suicide? Without the comments, how does M.E. knows she exists? 

      Or, perhaps, it would be a kind of homicide? Without the comments section, how do I know I exist. Surrounded as I am by empathic people, when I start to "come out of the closet," their eyes begin to cloud over with denial and they quickly find something else they would rather do. If I were a true sociopath, to the point of "eliminating people with extreme prejudice," such denial might well work to my advantage. But as an old wuss with delusions of grandeur, more and more I suspect people no longer see I exist.

      [I can't write a comment with my dyslexia leading me into several errors. The only way to correct is to delete and repost? Is that kind of suicide?]

    3. Hmm well her book seems to be doing well, and it doesn't have a comments section : ) It seems like to me, based on what I have seen, that a lot of sociopaths are interested in learning and better understanding themselves, but a lot of them seem to want to do it on their own without the help of a therapist. More information is coming out from sociopaths themselves, so it may be helpful to some. I'm not sure how much of a support system they really feel they need, but I could be wrong. Maybe it's nice for them to have a place to go to "take off the mask". Maybe another site could be started with this intention in mind.

    4. Dr. Ginger, there are some interesting discussions every now and then at psychforums... For BPD's it definitely looks like a support system. From the NPD's who participate it's also a kind of support system I guess, but it looks quite different. AsPD is a totally different kind of place. So is this one. I read somewhere in the past about the comments section here being interesting to those on the outside -- people who don't actually participate but view it as a laboratory of sorts.

      About your comments:
      "Dr. Scifi, you must really like this site." Sometimes I do and sometimes I don't.

      "Am I sensing a bit of an emotional connection to it? : )" If I chose to engage in things then there is a kind of emotional connection since I value my time. If I feel I am dealing with idiots then that's a good motivation to do something else. My main point is that whatever goes on in this forum varies alot over time -- just looking back a bit in the history of this place.

      "It’s probably best to remain a little detached" I'm wondering why you think I am not a little detached:)

    5. I've stayed pretty detached, but I did post some comments that I would never reveal anywhere else. It would be hard for me to get emotional without going in to psychology mode, but I did notice some of the comments from people who are relatively normal that seemed to indicate that some of what they have seen on this site has taken an emotional toll on them.

  18. Going through life takes an emotional toll on people. 50% of marriages (and higher % of relationships) takes an emotional toll on people. Being born at a time and place of plague, genocide, and similar constructive activities takes a toll on people. My parents were fairly fucked up (though mildly so compared to many others, including a high school student in one of my classes who was being raped by her step father while her mom hid her head in the sand).

    Tobacco takes a toll on people. Drinking alcohol unwisely and excessively takes a toll on people. We live in a society that strives for individual freedom and responsibility though we have become much more of a "nanny state" that tries to protect ourselves from ourselves and each other. Playgrounds are now starting to remove slides and other play equipment most of us took for granted as we grew up.

    Even so, there's a thought embedded in your comment, Dr. Ginger. Perhaps some careful limits should be set on those people allowed to use this site? Who decides? How? How enforced?


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