Tuesday, August 4, 2009

Ten lepers

I tell people to keep in touch with me when I "help" them "answer" their "questions," and sometimes people do a little, but it never continues even a month after. I'm curious: do any of you still read the site? For those of you wondering if you, your roommate, or your lover is a sociopath, did you ever reach a conclusion? Particularly the empaths in love with sociopaths, did any of my advice really help? Any of my tactics really work? Are you happily involved in a loving relationship with a sociopath now? Or happily finally over him because at last you came to some understanding?

Answer here if you don't mind, with a link to your question if it was posted.

My prediction, though, is that no one will respond, and I haven't decided yet what that says about the efficacy of my advice (or the staying power of empaths reading a blog about sociopaths with any sort of regularity).

55 comments:

  1. M.E. wrote, “particularly the empaths in love with sociopaths, did any of my advice really help?”

    What?!? Do my eyes deceive me? Are you suggesting that ‘empaths’ have used you to salve their wounded egos and subsequently dropped you like a bad habit once they felt better? NO! Not those thoughtful, morally upstanding and utterly empathic empaths! Say it aint so! Only wicked, sad souls like sociopaths do things like that!!!

    “my prediction, though, is that no one will respond, and i haven't decided yet what that says about the efficacy of my advice (or the staying power of empaths reading a blog about sociopaths with any sort of regularity).”

    I predict your prediction is right, especially with regard to those who wrote you for advice about their so called sociopathic lovers. All those wounded hearts got what they really came for, which wasn’t truth or facts or clarity or even advice on how to actually change their romantic lives for the better. I don’t think most people actually want advice, especially when they ask for it. What they want instead is agreement. Except me of course. When I ask for advice I actually want it. I swear! LOL.

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  2. Advice doesn't do anything but make people feel better. People who ask for advice already know how to solve their problems, they just don't want to, and would prefer to whine about it. Not to say that what M.E is doing is illogical, because most people get somewhat of a high from helping others, or responding to questions, and I don't think sociopaths are excluded from the second.

    Anyone who comes to M.E for relationship advice I'm guessing is just projecting their loved one onto M.E. and they think that by doing so they may be able to make the real one understand, which they probably can't or won't. They are asking for M.E's help for nothing in return, and will never respond without thinking anything of it, despite how they are essentially using someone like a sociopath would, albeit the sociopath would actually REALISE that they were acting unkindly.

    Apart from the annoying empaths with relationship problems, the other type of person who seems to e-mail M.E. are sociopaths. When I say sociopaths, I mean environmentally created psychopaths. Hence why they do it - they have bad childhoods etc., and wish to get back at or make the world understand that what has happened to them is much worse than anything they've ever done to someone. M.E. in this case, does not actually have to respond with anything useful, and is merely being used as a blank screen with which they may project their feelings onto. Essentially, like a premodern psychiatrist.

    You're right, though, M.E. It's unlikely anyone will respond to you because the empaths are either afraid of you, or do not care about you, and the sociopaths will e-mail you as more problems accumulate in their lives, although not for idle conversation.

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  4. You gave me advice once and I thought it was helpful. It gave a little insight into a world that I knew only a marginal bit about.

    I think your blog is just as helpful though to us empaths. We think differently than a sociopath and your writing helps us put the statements and desires ofd our sociopaths in context.

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  5. Loveline with Dr Sociopath. I've seen evrything.

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  6. The sociopath's brains IS different:

    Another new research outcome on:

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article6736973.ece

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  7. "loving relationship with a sociopath":
    That is a contradictio in terminis.

    Instead it could have read: "Have you found a status quo in the relationship? For the time being at least?"

    I do think this is actually a very interesting post from M.E. It would be interesting to find out whether knowing more about what a sociopathic personality entails, for what kind of person that would rok and how. The idea is a sociopath doest GIVE/is not GIVING in a relationship the way an empath is, so what does an empath get out of it then? No emotional attachment or bond in reciprocity. So what kind of personalities would be willingly and knowingly capable of continuing the relationship when you know all your game in the bond will be to GIVE.

    Thoughts anyone?

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  8. rok= work

    excuse me

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  9. I am an extremely empathic person. To the point it can be absolutely crippling at times. When my friends are in pain, I am too. Whatever they are emoting, I am forced to experience as well. It can be quite exhausting and overwhelming.

    As I was telling a friend last week, it's very easy for me to spend time with him (far easier than with most people) because he doesn't demand that of me. He is what I've always called a "hard" person. It's one of my favorite things about him. I don't have to feel a lot of extraneous emotions when I am with him unlike my other friends.

    For empaths emotionally attached to sociopaths, it would make sense to me if it were for that same reason.

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  10. alpha belle

    i get that. however: at one point you will give more, show more because of exactky what you say and will then feel you truly not have the emotional bond ( he is not there for you) but will be hooked to feeling he gave you at first...yes?

    the bottom line is: dont get emotional attached or EXPECT anything.take him or her for what he is ( and not for what he or she says). that takes some discipline/competence/ability cause it WILL go against the empaths nature.

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  11. M.E., I have never sent you an email but as an 'empath' I appreciate your blogs. I follow your blogs and comments but never post. The site gives me insight and its also intellectually stimulating. I think you are interesting but the peanut gallery is just hilarious.

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  12. "The sociopath's brains IS different:

    Another new research outcome on:

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article6736973.ece"

    Great. What next lobotomy? I really don't buy this mental disorder shit they are trying to sell. I hate to be paranoid, but it seems from this article that they aren't far from drugging up or cuttin up the deviants. To keep the public 'safe' of course.

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  13. pager


    what are they trying to sell? i thought a sociopath would dig scientific research done with MRI and so forth.

    hey if something like a pill or whatever in the future could help you to be a person that never exploits others and will be capable of emotional attachments and so forth what is there not to like about this from you perspective aswell?

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  15. peter pan

    hey dont worry about it

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  16. I've read this blog semi-regularly for a few months but never commented. Never asked for help or advice but I think I've got some, passively, from what I've read here; I thought I may be a sociopath, I realize it's more like anti-authoritarian aspergers: most of my 'friends' seem to lean toward sociopathy for some reason so the relationship advice, and just learning what motivates sociopaths, helps.

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  17. Well, shit or get off the pot.

    We need more discussion about the concocting of delicious evils, around here.

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  18. For once evil I agree.
    Disney I wouldn't take a pill to change who I am that's ridiculous. You assume I think I'm ill. I don't. You forgot I told you that I love myself and I love my life. I disagree with the pill psychiatry that has taken over the science today. I think it's a weak cop out for weak people. Nigeria is the happiest country in the world and they hardly have the prozac culture United States seems to have developed.

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  19. pager

    i get what you are saying. for the sociopaths that keep ending up in jail in might be a different story. they themselves might have enough of their own repetitive behavior.

    also i think the US have gone bazurk when it comes to self medication, but i think that has to do with capitalism in overdrive....

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  20. The Evil Emperor said, "We need more discussion about the concocting of delicious evils, around here."

    Any suggestions Palpatine?

    Disney said, "i thought a sociopath would dig scientific research done with MRI and so forth."

    I don’t know about “a sociopath”, but I do dig scientific research. It’s the most reliable method we have for ferreting out fact from fiction. It’s just the implications of this research are… interesting, which you point out when you go on to say…

    "hey if something like a pill or whatever in the future could help you to be a person that never exploits others and will be capable of emotional attachments and so forth what is there not to like about this from you perspective aswell?

    This attitude is what I was referring to before. You automatically assume that it would be preferable for the “non-normal” to experience the world the way you do. At least that’s how it sounds to me. If my assumption about your assumption is accurate, why would that be true? You didn’t make a distinction in this comment between people who repeatedly end up in prison verses those who don’t either, nor have you made that distinction in most of your other comments. I get the impression that you think all sociopaths should be forced to take this normal making pill, should one ever be made. Why?

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  21. daniel birdick

    i do make some assumptions, youre right.

    like:

    - people would be better off ( themselves!) fitting in ( to a certain degree ofcourse) with society and its norms.
    -sociopath would be better off ( again: for their own benefit) having the same constitution feeling wise as people who can indeed attach and bond emotionally and stuff like that.

    later on i did state that it would be seen more of an advantage from the perspective of the sociopath who for instance keeps ending up in jail ( less fun there) to take the pills ( there are no pills, this is hypothetical).

    as a real empath you see how i try to look at this from yalls perspective. wrong as i may be. my own perspective looks much, much different. if youre interested i will tell, but if not i wont bother.

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  22. I have you in my feed reader, so yes, I still read every single post. You are more articulate and/or honest than my ex, whom I still love very much, so you explain certain of his behaviors to me. He denies being a sociopath because he doesn't think there is anything wrong with him. I agree, but thinking about him as a sociopath helps me make sense of his emotions and reactions. So thank you!

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  23. Ok Disney. Given your last comment, when someone like Pager says that he loves his life and would say no if offered a magic pill that would turn him into an empath, you think… what in response?

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  24. DanielDick said:
    "Any suggestions Palpatine?"

    It was I who started the “Fear is the path to the dark side” meme. The truth is, the only fear I have is that of losing. Ah heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh (*snork*) aheh heh. Excellent.

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  25. How would you like a pill to be a sociopath Disney. get rid of all that guilt and hesitation. Be able to understand how people think and behave naturally. Feel amazed at yourself instead of doubt and self loathing. Be able to persuade people to do what you want. I would think it wpuld sell more

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  26. LOL! Awesome Palpie.

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  27. I was also quite celebate. NOT! I seduced quite many lovers and ruined them all. Ahee aheehee aheeheeheeheeheehee wheeeeeeeeee. Aheehee.

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  28. pager

    haha yeah i think you might be right: that pill would sell more! certainly in the states.

    other than that it is a silly question both ways. you realize? again the glasses thing i mentioned early on.


    Daniel Birdick

    I would say I understand it from his point of view. Why change a constitution that works for you right?

    From my ( and empaths are a majoriy) stance sociopaths cause way too much pointless harm to other people to not want to look into methods of making them less harmful.
    if sociopaths thus would not be so destructional and extremely leechy to the environment I would have no problem with sociopaths doing whatever the F they want in life and I would applaud them for it. But ANTISOCIAL means that they deviating grandly in the way they see other persons. Now I am not an advocate of fitting people into a mold. I am all for personal freedom, AS long as you make an effort not harming others on the way, so as many people can be who they want to be in life and enjoy eachothers versitility or even craziness.

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  29. Disney said, “other than that it is a silly question both ways. you realize?”

    Actually it’s not a silly question. You were the one that stated that you believe that it is preferable to be an empath and that therefore sociopaths should want to be empaths. (Those weren’t your exact words but that was the gist.) The point that both PP and Pager were making was for you to turn the question around and ask yourself how you would feel if you were forced to take a pill that made you more sociopathic because someone somewhere implied that it was the objectively preferable way to experience the world. So yes, it is silly to suggest that one way of “being” is objectively preferable than the other. Well, it’s silly to the degree that we aren’t being more specific when we use labels like sociopath, empath, satisfaction, well being, and so on.

    “From my ( and empaths are a majoriy) stance sociopaths cause way too much pointless harm to other people to not want to look into methods of making them less harmful.
    if sociopaths thus would not be so destructional and extremely leechy to the environment I would have no problem with sociopaths doing whatever the F they want in life and I would applaud them for it. But ANTISOCIAL means that they deviating grandly in the way they see other persons. Now I am not an advocate of fitting people into a mold. I am all for personal freedom, AS long as you make an effort not harming others on the way, so as many people can be who they want to be in life and enjoy eachothers versitility or even craziness.”


    You’d have to also breed the instinct to harm out of normals as well. All people are equally capable of destructive and leech like behavior. It’s just that some sub groups do so in a way that is obvious and in your face, so to speak. Or perhaps more to the point, they do so without false apologies or useless displays of guilt that do nothing to change the harm done or selfish pleas for “redemption” or empty lip service to a morality that even normals don’t bother trying to live up to with any degree of consistency.

    But then again Disney, your sentiment is fair enough I suppose. I suppose it’s even understandable from your perspective. After all, as Nietzsche said, “…if the lambs say among themselves: ‘these birds of prey are evil; and whoever is least like a bird of prey, but rather its opposite, a lamb—would he not be good?’ there is no reason to find fault with this institution of an ideal, except perhaps that the birds of prey might view it a little ironically and say: “we don’t dislike them at all, these little lambs; we even love them: nothing is more tasty than a tender lamb.’” – Friedrich Nietzsche (from On The Genealogy of Morals)

    PS. So called empaths are indeed the majority. So what? Facts aren’t determined by majority vote. That probably wasn't the point you were making, but I thought that since you mentioned it I'd go ahead and throw that out there. Free of charge. I know. No thanks are necessary.

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  30. birdick

    theory of large numbers?

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  31. birdick

    okay:

    "All people are equally capable of destructive and leech like behavior"

    sure. but none so continuously harmful as sociopaths. plus untreatable ( i know i know), and not caused by severe trauma ( which is usually the case when it comes to destructional behavior. and trauma is manageable.

    Nietzsche: rarely did a philosopher have so many personal and emotional issues. your quotes have in different wording been uttered many times by i think it was peter pan, or pager, dunno.

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  32. Disney said, “sure. but none so continuously harmful as sociopaths. plus untreatable ( i know i know), and not caused by severe trauma ( which is usually the case when it comes to destructional behavior. and trauma is manageable.”

    Perhaps it’s untreatable because many of the traits associated with the sociopath aren’t pathological at all. Maybe it’s a personality type instead.

    “Nietzsche: rarely did a philosopher have so many personal and emotional issues.”

    True, but those personal demons do not invalidate his insights, no more than a math teacher’s predilection for child pornography would falsify the fact that 2+2=4.

    “your quotes have in different wording been uttered many times by i think it was peter pan, or pager, dunno.”

    That’s probably true. But what’s your point?

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  33. If we want to argue numbers: Sociopaths form 15% of the prison population. Which would mean empaths take up 85% of the prison population. Certainly you have caused more harm.
    How many world leaders do you think sociopaths have? How many lawyers, judges, and CEOs do you think we have? How many generals?

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  34. Birdick

    "Perhaps it’s untreatable because many of the traits associated with the sociopath aren’t pathological at all. Maybe it’s a personality type instead."

    fine with me. my point still stands. too harmful. whether that harm comes up in Pager's statistics or not, doesnt matter ( ive seen much different statistic) its innate to the sociopaths personality to cause others harm, whether they are capable of viewing the harm they did as such, or not ( no?)

    nietszche's personal demons in this case do matter cause his subject are grandly influenced by his personal demons. ( from your example) the math teacher doesnt write about or makes child pornography even though he loves watching it.

    but never mind this i get your point with the nietzschge's example. however i dont see how its meaningful.

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  35. Disney said, “fine with me. my point still stands.”

    So, dear one, does mine. You say it’s too harmful only, if my assumption is right, because you were harmed by someone you think is/must be a sociopath. But that wouldn’t matter to sociopaths, would it? That question is the reason I used that particular Nietzsche quote. Why on earth should the predator care about the prey’s tendency to villainize him? And sociopaths who cause “too much harm” don’t either, especially if it served whatever their purpose happened to be, which could range from achieving some grand objective to just having a good time. Your pain is ultimately irrelevant. No amount of empathizing with the so called sociopath is going to change that.

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  36. BIrdick

    You said:

    So, dear one, does mine. You say it’s too harmful only, if my assumption is right, because you were harmed by someone you think is/must be a sociopath. But that wouldn’t matter to sociopaths, would it? That question is the reason I used that particular Nietzsche quote. Why on earth should the predator care about the prey’s tendency to villainize him? And sociopaths who cause “too much harm” don’t either, especially if it served whatever their purpose happened to be, which could range from achieving some grand objective to just having a good time. Your pain is ultimately irrelevant. No amount of empathizing with the so called sociopath is going to change that."

    absolutely, you are very right. i fully agree. but so what. that wasnt what the discussion was about. werent we talking about why or why not a pill would be justified from my perspective? and i think so exactly BECAUSE of what you say here. and ofcourse a sociopath would disagree. i agree with the sociopath from his or her perspective. catch my drift now?!
    And no I wasnt harmed by a sociopath. Im looking at this from a different perspective. But that is not very interesting.

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  37. You had given me advice on distinguishing between someone with NPD and sociopathy. It was incredibly helpful.

    Your advice gives empaths some insight into what we're really dealing with as its difficult for us to comprehend and process.

    I stayed away from my ex but now have a much more keen understanding of traits to look for in case one comes across my path in the future. And you've given me the tools to better handle any such interactions.

    I do read the blogs on occasion but I don't read as often as I did simply because I successfully extinguished my ex from my life and my mind and some of the blogs bring me back to some unhappy times.

    But you are very helpful and I'm sure most empaths are grateful for any advice and insight you bring.

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  38. I have posted comments on this site looking for insight, having had a sociopathic partner. I still talk to him, although he finally admitted to me that he knows that he is sociopathic, and we have agreed we can only continue as friends. I still enjoy reading here, it isn't so much helpful to me, as interesting. The tragedy of it all.

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  39. I'm still puzzling "discard and devalue". Why is it used by sociopaths? When I split with my ex I was bewildered to discover she was smearing me with friends and neighbours. She also tried desperately to goad me into saying incriminating things (she recorded all convos). Why do they do this? It ultimately destroys the connection and stops the sociopath parasiting further. So ultimately they suffer.

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  40. No anonymous they don't suffer. It is from what I can see, about how much you can entertain them. When you are done with them I think that they are generally ok with that. It goes devalue, discard, replace. You are used up.

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  41. Why devalue though? It takes effort. I can understand discard. Is devalue a defense against an empath's bad-mouthing when they discover they've been "had"? S is keen to maintain supply and therefore reputation. A "knowing" empath running around is a threat and must be anhilated. Or does devalue empower the S and they simply enjoy it? What do you think? My S told me she will not rest until I am dead. I did not provoke other than to "exist". I'd be grateful for a response from a sociopath on this, if poss. I have read that my existence enrages the S since she was unable to dominate me and I am a living reminder of her failure to dominate.

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  42. Oh, good luck analyzing it to death because you are just going to drive yourself nuts.
    I am not a sociopath so pardon my input but... say you look at a certain color, and percieve it one way. Say she looks at the same color and percieves it entirely differently. But you are limited to one word that describes that color so you can't really explain to one another what you are seeing (and also bear in mind she probably doesn't even want to talk to you about it). Empaths cannot ever truly understand sociopaths, and THEY can never truly understand us. It is what it is. If she is going to get vicious, protect yourself. She will probably give up and move on before long.

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  43. anonymous

    most likely the sociopath in question doesnt think it through as much as you do and just enacts what she feels enacting upon for the sake of it.

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  44. guys, devalue is a common theme, they all seem to do it. Why? There must be some reason, some benefit. My guess is it's a final power trip, a defense against revenge and a last ditch attempt at "winning". Only a true S can explain this.

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  45. anonymous

    if your character is not built on all sorts of values doesnt it make complete sense to devalue an ex for all the reasons you mentioned and more. My idea is that the most urgent reason would be that because the S is not with that person anymore that person must be worth less. Worth less=devalue. It's one and one is two logic for the socioath's brain, no?

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  46. I think a lot of things are worthless but I don't spend time and energy destroying them. I just throw them in the bin. I don't give them a second thought. We're talking about a deliberate expenditure of energy, a concerted effort, to devalue and destroy.

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  47. anonyous

    what if it gives a person energy to spend energy on sucking away others energy?

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  48. The manipulation aspect can be argued all day long. What concerns me more about sociopaths is the leeching. Riding someone else's coattails or accomplishments seems like such a pitiful existence. As an empath that is a huge fan of Ayn Rand and Objectivism, I want to know from the sociopaths if the concepts of integrity or dignity ever nip at your heels?

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  49. What amuses me is the implosion of the S once you cut them out of your life and move on. My "best friend" years ago was an intelligent S with several degrees in physics at Durham University. Among other things he managed to turn my girlfriend against me and get her into bed. I moved away from the area, got a new job, knuckled down and bought a house. He started drifting aimlessley and ended up climbing the Eiger with two "friends" (I wasn't one of them). He was blackmailing one of the guys over a sexual matter. The victim waited for the right moment and pushed him off a ledge. He hit his head and staggered about in a daze before falling into a crevasse. He died slowly by suffocation. The two guys laughed at the funeral. They weren't the only ones.

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  50. anonymous, if i understand your story correctly, an empath was responsible for the slow and torturous death of a sociopath, then laughed about it?

    and here i was thinking socipaths were supposed to be the dangerous ones...

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  51. Sociopaths are the calm ones, It's those empaths that you need to look out for.

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  52. I emailed you several times 2 years ago. You were extraordinarily helpful. I was dating someone that exhibited signs of being a sociopath (I thought psychopath was the new correct terminology?). You gave me tremendous insight into my own situation. I did leave the person we discussed shortly thereafter and have never looked back. Interestingly, he still calls or emails at times. His latest is that he was a sex addict....in recovery of course (can you detect my sarcasm). Lol. I don't reply of course. Just a waste of keystrokes.

    When one has decided to leave someone that has been, oh, let's say....disrespectful, you want to cut all ties and unfortunately, that would mean cutting ties with all things associated with psychopathy. Frankly, its just a really shitty experience and you want to just forget it and move on. That could partially be why people don't continue to stay in touch.

    Also, I can't imagine staying in touch brings you any sort of satiation? Maybe it does, I don't know. I just didn't feel like I served any purpose for you after the fact except to take up your time.

    Either way, I think your blog is amazing and it would be a real pity to see it go. I'm not sure what your original purpose for it was but I hope you continue. As I write this, I have no idea whether or not you still do.

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  53. More people need to be on http://sociopath-community.com/

    !!! it used to be connected to this blog but was disconnected over a year ago. We need fresh blood and lots of interesting things have happened recently (relates to kiwifar.ms drama: https://archive.is/M2tXa) that will go down in the forum's history! Be sure to check out http://www.psychforums.com/antisocial-personality/ too, as some of its regulars are regulars on SC too!

    Goddamn ME refused to reconnect the blog to the forum so we SC goers will just have to spam advertisements for the forum in the comments section. ;)

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