Thursday, January 7, 2016

PNSE as treatment/experience

From a reader regarding something he found helpful in terms of relating to himself and the world as a personality disordered individual (ASPD/NPD) -- something called PNSE:

You might want to check out this guy's work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ7nynHcnDE

Here is a writeup: http://nonsymbolic.org/PNSE-Article.pdf

So my own experience, having done the practices and had a PNSE, is that it doesn't solve the morality and impulse-control stuff. The experience has made me happier and more functional, but if you're hoping to find a cure for the "my life blows up every 3 years", this won't be it.

There's a bunch of interesting stuff - one thing that's clear is that mainstream psychology is quite parochial. Eg you've mentioned stuff that sounds a lot like "depersonalization" in the way you relate to your body. It partly explains you who (and I) - if we have a good reason - can get naked and do things that normal people would find terribly shameful. Anyway, depersonalization is a common aspect of PNSE, but it is also the sort of thing that mainstream psychologists (or even garden-variety spiritual teachers) would frown upon - unless they've had that experience for an extended time.

Here is a summary of Jeffery Martin's work - in an interview:

http://realitysandwich.com/229496/demystifying-enlightenment-jeffrey-a-martin-explains-the-finders-course/

He mentions neurofeedback, which I remember you mentioning.

And then his description, which I asked for:

Jeffery Martin studied something he labeled PNSE - "religious experience", "mystical experience" across various faiths/communities and practices. It included Christians, Buddhist meditators, etc. What is PNSE - persistent nonsymbolic experience.

Most people aren't that happy. They're always thinking about things, typically in a self-referential way, and those thoughts color the rest of your experience. By the time you've reached this sentence, you've probably thought something like, "I'm happy, this doesn't apply to ME", "why should I continue reading this? I'm bored." "What was that noise?", etc.

Most peoples' lives is dominated by thinking. They don't notice it. Thinking is symbolic (words) and typically self-referential and negative. E.g. "I'm fat", "I'm bored", "I'm not doing this well", "I got a smaller piece than him." Thinking gets them to do stuff. It also colors how they relate to information - you tell me anything and I'll be thinking "do I really need to pay attention to this?" and "is this going to make things better for me?"

The typical person has some story about himself or herself. Nobody can see the story - it just exists in peoples' minds. As a social nicety, we "go along" with peoples' stories. The typical person takes his story very seriously, despite the fact that the story usually makes them unhappy. Rather than feeling joyful and grateful to have the life that we have, we typically nurse grudges, fear the inevitable, get sad about our personal failures, etc. None of those stories are real; there's just whatever is happening right now. And they happen automatically - when and what isn't up to the you that experiences them. If you are sitting around experiencing your unhappy thoughts about you and your life, that's what is going on now for you, but that doesn't make the stories real, true, etc.

When people have a PNSE, they have, for an extended period of time, a different way of relating to their thoughts, especially their thoughts about themselves. They might have fewer thoughts or they might not seem important. The experience is like an extended "flow" experience. There are several different types (locations) of PNSE, they aren't all the same. Some people might report a constant sense of divine presence (or connection to nature). Others might not. Pretty much all of them report that they are less neurotic; well-being is high. People typically make sense of their experience in the context of their religion (if any). E.g. Buddhists would make sense of it in terms of Buddhism, Christians in terms of Christianity.

Regular flow experiences are profound - e.g. people get addicted to sex, rock climbing, shoplifting, etc because when they do those things, they have to focus and they temporarily get relief from their thinking (symbolic experience). Drugs and alcohol can also provide relief from thinking.

The typical "mystical experience" is like a flow experience, but on steroids. Christians talk about the holy spirit entering in them (e.g. "God ran my life, not me"). Here's a Scientologist (at 12 minutes in) talking about his experience: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHb0BZyF5Ok  In addition to feeling joy there might be a noeitic sense -- "THIS IS IMPORTANT". It is the sort of experience that gets people to give their money to a cult - as Jason Beghe did after he had that experience. These sorts of experiences often lead to people diving in, trusting other people, giving them money, etc.

Why is it is important? Imagine your whole life you've been obsessed with your career, competing with your peers and so on. You're unhappy because nothing is ever enough. If suddenly you stopped thinking about that and you had an extended period of time where thoughts about your personal story (you deserved more, they betrayed you, you got ignored) didn't cross your mind, you'd be a lot less miserable. If it kept on happening, you might realize that all along you'd thought you were one thing (a person competing with others) but that story wasn't true - it didn't define you - just because it kept crossing your mind. If also you don't feel connected to your body in the same way, it would seem profound.

So when they look at the brains of psychopaths and meditators, they sometimes find similarities -- the psychopaths, when they are doing tasks are focused. There's not a lot of thinking unrelated to the task. Perhaps this is why psychopaths don't get bothered about wrecking their lives, or those of people around them - they don't ruminate. They keep busy. When I read your piece here - http://www.sociopathworld.com/2015/12/the-cruise-ship-story.html - recently it occurred to me that that might have happened; your thinking (about yourself) might have increased. I remarked that maybe you've got more of a sense of self, and hence more problems - which fits Martin's research: when people do practices that fit them, they get results quickly - e.g. a week. When they do practices that don't fit, they typically get more neurotic/unhappy. That "sense of self" (the thinking) can wax and wane, along with it the happiness/unhappiness.

People have a lot of beliefs about PNSE. Eg Many Buddhists seem to think a person post-PNSE wouldn't be immoral or unkind. Martin didn't find evidence of that - if you are a dishonest person, you'll probably be dishonest after your PNSE.  I've had a PNSE and I'm still amoral and selfishly impulsive.

Christians (and other religions) tend to emphasize what Martin calls location 3. There's a sense of divine presence and high joy. If people move from location 3 into location 4 (which can happen randomly), the joy goes away along with the sense of divine presence, and they can get freaked out -- because their subjective experience isn't aligned with what their religion says is supposed to happen. E.g. it looks like something like that happened to mother Theresa: http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/08/24/mother-teresa-did-not-feel-christ-presence-for-last-half-her-life-letters.html That can be really confusing; say you believe Galatians 5:22, and you did have a lot of love and joy (and a sense of divine presence - "walking with the Lord") - but one day it goes away completely. You might think you did something wrong.

There's a bunch of other stuff Martin found - e.g. arousal (excitement) fades, even if people are still experiencing PNSE. Some methods work better than others. Some religions only incorporate some of the 6 practices they found that worked; be born in the wrong tradition and you probably won't have a PNSE.

My own experience - I've had a PNSE. I suspect Martin would classify mine as location 4 (although I guess I experienced some other locations). Location 4 fit with the practices I'd done (meditation & self-inquiry) and my subjective experience: noticing over and over again that I don't control my thoughts, feelings, etc -- they just happen, moment-by-moment. It isn't clear how I get my body to do anything, say anything, etc - I might think about it and it does it. Or more typically I just notice my body doing stuff after it has started. I definitely don't feel identical with my body. There's a sense of not being contained within a body - similar to what Jason Beghe describes in that video above. I've noticed that my unhappiness always seems related to thinking about "me" and the world or other people - and these thoughts are automatic. Even if I do something well and experience the feeling of pride, it feels mechanical -- there's the noticing I did something well and then perhaps a warm feeling washes through my head, along with the thought that I should try to avoid letting it show. I've seen psychologists use the word "depersonalization" to talk about this stuff. I suspect I'm less narcissistic and more sociopathic; I don't believe my story. I hold my opinions lightly. I don't care as much about my accomplishments (or failures) - they aren't me, nor up to me. And to the extent I do or don't care, that's not up to me either.

After having had my PNSE I wanted to make sense of it. I really liked Martin's evidence-based approach. A lot of what he discusses fits my personal experience, so I give it more weight. One thing he talks about it is that someone might have a PNSE in location 4 and then not have anyone to talk to about it -- not even your spiritual teachers, who might be in location 2. They might be freaked out if you talk to them about your experience; they might think things have gone way off track. This is like being a psychopath; if you are honest with people about how you experience reality, they can get bothered, blame you, etc. because what you're saying sounds so inhuman.

Any of your readers doing meditation, prayer, etc might want to look and see what can happen if they happen to hit upon a practice that works for them, or if they just happen to experience a shift of consciousness. When it happens to people randomly (which it does), people tend to think they are going crazy. If they go to psychologists they likely won't be understood - which reminds me of my own experience telling psychologists about my impulsiveness, amorality, habitual manipulation, lack of empathy, etc.

178 comments:

  1. This is a great post, a wonderful synthesis.

    A few preliminary comments:

    ________
    Lots of great stuff around narrative. Narrative is hella important for the quality of our experience of each moment. So being grateful, seeing the positives etc enriches that quality. Two key practices I've learned:

    * Break the habit of applying judgements to everything that comes along. Simply experience. We bind ourselves in language - going back to the Hamlet theme: nothing is either good or bad but thinking makes it so. The richness is in the experience, the sensation. As M.E. said (I'm paraphrasing and perhaps interpreting): our visceral reactions provide information about ourselves, and that is again an experience.

    * The chief value in narrative is allowing us to let go. A narrative makes sense of an experience, it's a learning tool. A very powerful tool that we can wield in our own selves to shape - like a bonsai tree - our own lives. Once we have learned from an experience, we can let it go and continue on in other experiences.

    There is no need to cling to narrative or even get in narrative habits (always seeing things in the same negative way, for example.)

    This way, we live in the present, enjoying events and people and experiences.

    ________

    I think you may be on to something with M.E. and the cruise ship story. Under rumination is feeling and under feeling is belief. If M.E. is cultivating more feeling, it makes sense that it begins to drive more rumination. She's at the wheel of a new vehicle and - like me in many ways - learning to operate it effectively.

    ________
    "When they do practices that don't fit, they typically get more neurotic/unhappy. That "sense of self" (the thinking) can wax and wane, along with it the happiness/unhappiness.

    People have a lot of beliefs about PNSE. Eg Many Buddhists seem to think a person post-PNSE wouldn't be immoral or unkind. Martin didn't find evidence of that - if you are a dishonest person, you'll probably be dishonest after your PNSE. I've had a PNSE and I'm still amoral and selfishly impulsive."

    I also agree with this and it's a flaw I see in Buddhism. This is why I say we are most at ease, most comfortable and most effective when we develop in accordance with our own natures. Note I am still saying we can develop and expand and learn more of ourselves, improve our practices, open our minds etc.
    _________

    There's so much in this post and I want to let it all permeate and not ramble on as I can do because I see many connections with my own ideas. I want to feel this from your perspective and immerse in it.

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    1. North - just posted 3 replies to your latest on the previous thread (beginning 'Gosh') but don't know if you'll get them - let me know if not! (They did publish, and displayed initially, but haven't shown up since)

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    2. Just realised - they do all show up, if you click 'load more' the maximum number of times..! (took me ages to work that out)

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    3. Yeah, it seems to display them in chronological order. Hard work scrolling on a phone!

      I finally responded, and have a few more things to come back to. Thanks :)

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    4. ý tưởng tô điểm cho phép thử nghiệm và đem lại cho vật dụng trong nhà nhà sự bất ngờ và nét riêng biệt. Đó là một thời điểm tốt để biến giấc mơ bạn đã ấp ủ bao lâu nay biến thành hiện thực. Hôm nay bạn có thể trang tri noi that căn nhà của bạn bằng cách thêm ghe sofa bố trí có một không hai, phản ánh ước mơ của bạn. sat my thuat bộ sưu tập của các sáng kiến tiên tiến cho bức tường trống sẽ giúp chọn bí quyết tốt nhất cho đồ đạc chung cư của bạn và phân phối cho nguồn thú vui lý tưởng cho những dự án trang trí. do go phong khach , do go nha bep , do go phong ngu , giúp diện tích sống cập nhật một cách nhanh chóng. Một lớp sơn mới sáng trên bức tường của bạn hoặc bông hoa đẹp trên nền phá cách là các ý tưởng trang trí tường hoàn hảo và phản ánh các xu thế mới nhất. Bức tường không phải chỉ là một màu đồng điệu. Ngoài ra còn có phần lớn các loại khoa học trang trí bạn có thể thử trên những bức tường trống rỗng của bạn như gia cong sat , gia cong inox , bang hieu , logo , poster , gian hang hoi cho , cong chao su kien , su kien quang cao

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  2. I've never felt any kind of "spiritual awakening", perhaps because I knew all along God was like an eldritch abomination creeping in the dark recesses of my mind, having me in awe yet wary of his seemingly incomprehensible and almost indescribable beauty and terribleness. I like to fancy that he whispers to me so many sweet temptations, and some of them I do greatly take pleasure in.

    I kind of like to think that when I became fully aware of my sociopathy that my eldritch God uncoiled one of his magnificent tentacles and reached out from within the depths of my mind to grant me that revelation.

    "Break the habit of applying judgements to everything that comes along. Simply experience. We bind ourselves in language - going back to the Hamlet theme: nothing is either good or bad but thinking makes it so. The richness is in the experience, the sensation."

    Yes, absolutely. I agree with this line of thinking wholeheartedly.

    ESTP Sociopath

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  3. I had a spiritual awakening reading 48 Laws of Power.

    it was almost a story of my life.

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    1. Have you read "Might Is Right"?

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    2. no but i will now

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    3. Funny, just this week my socio friend recommended this book to me. The 48 Laws of Power. Now I really want to read it.

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  4. 48 Laws of Power. I told you about that book didn't I? I read a few chapters and then dumped it in the back of my car. Greene even looks like a devil. Here's a classic moron: "Never give away your true intentions or strategy." How does he prove this? By writing multiple books on how best to acquire power and deceive the masses.

    M.E.

    "Christians (and other religions) tend to emphasize what Martin calls location 3. There's a sense of divine presence and high joy. If people move from location 3 into location 4 (which can happen randomly), the joy goes away along with the sense of divine presence, and they can get freaked out -- because their subjective experience isn't aligned with what their religion says is supposed to happen. E.g. it looks like something like that happened to mother Theresa: http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/08/24/mother-teresa-did-not-feel-christ-presence-for-last-half-her-life-letters.html That can be really confusing; say you believe Galatians 5:22, and you did have a lot of love and joy (and a sense of divine presence - "walking with the Lord") - but one day it goes away completely. You might think you did something wrong."

    The reason why it doesn't work out is because the "sense of divine presence" is not divine. These are Jinn (or how the psychos refer to them here "dogs") who are tricking people into thinking it's something supernatural. That's why each person goes back to his tradition and then realizes it doesn't add up. Notice also, AS ALWAYS, Islam is somehow always overlooked in all the experimentations. People come around to it eventually and once it starts - once God starts opening your heart - you NEVER go back. There's not a single mystery left. There's no dissatisfaction or confusion or shortcomings.

    P.S. When I parked my car earlier, I noticed the bumper of the car in front of me said "Relax...God is in control." The timing and context was nothing short of perfect. Relax, M.E., God is in control. Call me crazy if you must but I promise you - I can see you on your journey - you'll get where I am soon. Just wait and see. Mark my words.

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    1. " or how the psychos refer to them here "dogs" "

      So you refer to yourself as "psycho"? ;)

      ~NM

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  5. I told my "friend" about that book by Greene when I was still messed up in my head. I went to Barnes & Noble to buy some kiddy books for my niece and just started briefing the book. It made me realize what he - the "friend" - was probably on about the whole time. I actually bought it and another one by him, started reading it, and then realized "I know everything this clown is saying and I know why he's 100% wrong." I couldn't bare holding a book with his ghastly face on it thinking he's so clever when he's actually advertising his shallow mind.

    Morgan is not Greene. I have faith in that.

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    1. Was Morgan your lover, Jonaid? A family member? One of the sociopaths who hurt you?

      If so, why is this person still in your life?

      You appear to still care for them very much.

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    2. Morgan is in prison and I hope he will be freed. He didn't hurt me - his "dog" tried to hurt me. I'm okay though but he's still trapped and it seems it's gotten worse. I'll be waiting for him when he gets out (which I know he will - God-willing).

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    3. I've never heard of a man being named "Morgan" before...

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    4. Is Morgan in prison, because he had his "dog" try to hurt you?

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    5. He was deceived by a deceiver but he'll make it out. He has to - he's way too smart and has first class DNA. Besides God is with Him whenever he needs him. So are some of His other admirers.

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    6. Did his "dog" go to prison, too?

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    7. What is "first class DNA"?

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    8. The dog us the one sent him to prison. His only mistake was trusting him and thinking it was good for him. It's okay we learn from our mistakes IF we choose to once it's apparent.

      He comes of good soil, first class. I don't believe that evil can come out of such good quality soil. I don't think he believes that either.

      Call to God and the dogs run away eventually. You're better than them. It's a matter of time now and how much exactly depends on you.

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    9. Jonaid
      Where in the Qur'an did you read about dogs sending people to prison? Or was this your own inspiration?
      Please enlighten me.
      'Curious Cat'
      PS: Hope cats are also damned by your religious beliefs.

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    10. Meant "Hope cats are NOT also damned ......"

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    11. The Jinn are not "damned." Only those who are evil and don't repent are damned. They have business interacting with humans and when they do its always for an ill purpose.

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    12. ^ *no business interacting with humans*

      Humans who interact with them also do so for ill purposes - or to satisfy some base desires.

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    13. Satan is a jinn. That's why many of them - and all who mingle with humans - are evil.

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  6. In the name of God, The All-Merciful, The Compassionate.

    "Behold! We said to the angels: “Prostrate unto Adam”: They prostrated except Iblis (Satan): He said, “Shall I prostrate to one whom Thou didst create from clay?” He said: “Seest Thou? This is the one whom Thou hast honoured above me! If Thou wilt but respite me to the Day of Judgment, I will surely bring his descendants under my sway – all but a few!”

    (Qur'an 17: 61–62)

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    1. 48 Laws of Power. I told you about that book didn't I?

      no. i know you think you are somehow bestowing some sort of wisdom here, but in reality you are just another deluded muppet to add to the pile that have come through here since the beginning of this blog.

      God is in control. Call me crazy if you must but I promise you - I can see you on your journey - you'll get where I am soon. Just wait and see. Mark my words.

      nothing better than to sit back and throw your life into the hands of an invisible hand. ha ha. what better way for you to cope with your meaningless existence.

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    2. I don't speak or understand Arabic but this is my preferred way of reading the Qur'an. Every Muslim knows that there is something profound & serene about listening to it recited. Around half way thru (it's about 13 minutes) it brings up Satan's story. I think if you notice how it corrects the Biblical version you'll realize how impecably it relates to the real world.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61mBDKp150E

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    3. NOTE: The Qur'anic term "Muslim" means "one who submits." It is not identical with "muslim" (lower case) which denotes adherents of the religion of Islam.

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    4. Also, verse 16 has a word "Buruj (boo rooj)" which is translated here as "great stars" and is more often translated as "mansions of the stars." To my mind it's apparent it refers to galaxies. Of course since galaxies were only discoverered later these were translated differently.

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    5. I don't speak or understand Arabic but this is my preferred way of reading the Qur'an.

      the irony is not lost on me. what better way to read a book: in a way you can't understand it.

      Every Muslim knows that there is something profound & serene about listening to it recited.

      as you hack off someone's head

      I think if you notice how it corrects the Biblical version you'll realize how impecably it relates to the real world.

      the bible was written before the quran. you don't correct something written prior, you rewrite it. the quran is as much plagarism as the bible is to the torah.

      The Qur'anic term "Muslim" means "one who submits."

      in english we call that a bitch

      It is not identical with "muslim" (lower case) which denotes adherents of the religion of Islam.

      you aren't special no matter what corrections you make in lower or uppercase. you are barbaric pigs who believe in a phantom just like the jews and christians.

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    6. "the irony is not lost on me. what better way to read a book: in a way you can't understand it."

      If you clicked on the link, you'd know that it was recited in Arabic but translated in English for viewers to read along. That is why I said it is my preferred method of reading it.

      "the bible was written before the quran. you don't correct something written prior, you rewrite it. the quran is as much plagarism as the bible is to the torah."

      If you knew what plagiarism was, you wouldn't (or you would actually you're a liar) make this claim. The Qur'an claims the same authorship as that of the Bible. It affirms the Bible's divinity albeit it adds that it is not entirely without corruption.

      As for muslims (lower case): they are people just like any other people. The Qur'an distinguishes between believers (those who trust in God) and those who don't. No doubt there are countless millions of people out there who are not "muslims" but likely qualify as better "Muslims." This is just semantics. It's not our business to judge individual people. We speak in generalities (i.e. a deliberate caricature of truth is sinful and ultimately leads to destruction for that soul).

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    7. The Qur'an claims the same authorship as that of the Bible.

      you know nothing of either book then. the quran was written by Muhammad the molestor. the bible was written by several authors all of which were dead by the time your shite book you love so much was written.

      As for muslims (lower case): they are people just like any other people. The Qur'an distinguishes between believers (those who trust in God) and those who don't. No doubt there are countless millions of people out there who are not "muslims" but likely qualify as better "Muslims."

      the one true scotsman of islam. ha ha ha. you are such a joke. if you were a real fucking muslim you would learn arabic and go on a hajj. you are just a wanna be jihadi who is acting muslim to be edgey. nothing you have said on this blog comment section has any relevance. it's a clear reflection of your life.

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    8. "if you were a real fucking muslim you would learn arabic and go on a hajj."

      It will, God-willing. It takes time.

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  7. I'm curious to explore the flip side of this though. If God is simply a manifestation of our imagination, a mere thought, an idea and concept drawn by man, what more is there to it? Are the "spiritual awakenings" people claim to experience simply an inflation of their ego because they choose to form a thought within our minds, "God"? Perhaps he is nothing more then a mental construct built within the human mind, a light sparked from within to cast back the fears people live with.

    I prefer to think of myself as agnostic, so I won't deny the possibility of the existence of God. I've just never experienced anything more than the beast that lurks in the dark recesses of my mind, that eldritch abomination who tempts me with his incomprehensible and almost indescribable beauty and terribleness. Is he just a thought or a true part of the human experience? I think perhaps each of us decides that for ourselves.

    ESTP Sociopath

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    1. UKan Sack ReelijusJanuary 7, 2016 at 9:08 PM

      god is a manifestation of escapism. when people say they are finding god in reality they are trying to find themselves. when they say they are leaving it in gods hands and refuse to take action to determine their own destiny, in reality they are burying their head in the sand.

      the truth is there is nothing more to it. it is really just the self important ego of individuals that creates this belief that they are special and that they will live forever. it's held together in a vigil of fellow idiots that enable each other to live a lie.

      nothing is predestined or purposeful. in reality life is what you make it and destiny is something you carve for yourself. life is chaos and it's only meaning is what you make of it.

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    2. Such an interesting perspective, "nothing is predestined or purposeful. in reality life is what you make it and destiny is something you carve for yourself. life is chaos and it's only meaning is what you make of it." I think perhaps there's truth in those words. Only we can decide how we live.

      ESTP Sociopath

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  8. ESTP-Did you see my recommendation/link to "The Black Crowes" song "She Talks To Angels", on the blog yesterday?

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  9. ESTP-I think it's a good song to listen to, after you've smoked some weed.:)

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  10. ESTP-Plus, it references "Angels", so it's "on topic", too.:)

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  11. Psychopaths/Sociopaths-Do you see peoples' "auras"? "Light" or "dark", that seems to emulate from them?

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    1. no. and for us it is not light and dark. it is predator and prey, and it is instinct guiding not auras.

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    2. The question of light and dark interests me.

      UK*, you don't experience that particular dichotomy? I wonder how you experience your impulses?

      ESTP Sociopath speaks of darkness, his eldritch god and so on.

      A sociopath at work also spoke of dark impulses - when I asked him about the quality of his experience he said it felt great at the time, but he regretted certain indulgences.

      The darkness I have experienced was brief, and it bred a seed of anger, which rose into a shaft of light through which I was reborn.

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    3. A sociopath at work also spoke of dark impulses - when I asked him about the quality of his experience he said it felt great at the time, but he regretted certain indulgences.


      I've met dramatic people like this myself. they aren't sociopaths, they are usually idiots trying to get attention.

      there's no regrets for us. impulses are impulses. it's a roller coaster with no brakes or rear view mirror to look back. you just keep plunging through life on whims and instinct. that's the best way i can describe it. very quick bursts of focus, a period of boredom from hitting the peak of whatever it is you are successful in, and the inevitable plunge as you run over your gains into a disaster of your own creation.

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    4. "I've met dramatic people like this myself. they aren't sociopaths, they are usually idiots trying to get attention."

      Oh dear.

      There were major differences between this fellow and the one I was involved with. The latter was closer to what you describe of yourself (ie what you say gels with my experience of him); the former - well, you are quite close there too. His father was a sociopath; I'd say he is on the spectrum as a result of his upbringing.

      Thanks.

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    5. I can say I've had a similar experience; while some might say how they feel as an individual and genuinely mean it, there are those who use such language like peacock feathers, trying to grasp at the attention they desire so much because their feelings of inadequacy. I met a man who talked so much of his darkness and that he was a sociopath, and perhaps he had antisocial traits, he was not a true sociopath. It's one thing to talk the walk and something else to walk the walk.

      ESTP Sociopath

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    6. Yes, I wondered whether he was talking about darkness because he thought that would impress me.

      He had some interesting traits and was impossible to work with. In a power play, he threatened me with a knife, which was impulsive and very stupid and certainly worked against him.

      Delete
    7. We did have good conversations though.

      Delete
    8. Yes, I would think that if he felt it was necessary to say such things to you, it was to capture your attention, impress, or perhaps even intimidate you.

      While such behavior, aggressive and/or destructive, is stereotypical of the average low functioning sociopath, a more intelligent sociopath would be composed and express things in such a way as to not scare the prey away. In socializing our ultimate goal is to entice and lure you in until you're in a position for us to pounce and get what wr want. Hissing, so to speak, doesn't typically help.

      ESTP Sociopath

      Delete

    9. He had some interesting traits and was impossible to work with. In a power play, he threatened me with a knife, which was impulsive and very stupid and certainly worked against him.


      What would be impulsive is if he stabbed you.

      There's a lot of people out there that have "dark impulses". The issue people have about sociopaths is that they act on most of them good or bad. It's also what attracts people, generally because people consider them to be carefree and don't know what to expect. People thay are random, sociopath or not, are generally fun to be around in small doses.

      Delete
    10. Hissing, that's a great description of what he did.

      The fact is I'd swept in and taken all his power away - because he wasn't performing in his role. He could only attempt damage from that point; but this silly action gave me additional capital to draw on. A more self-aware sociopath wouldn't have done that.

      "It's also what attracts people, generally because people consider them to be carefree and don't know what to expect. People thay are random, sociopath or not, are generally fun to be around in small doses."
      I agree.

      My father is an ISTP narcissist - very impulsive, adventurous, capable. He runs his life at an impossible rate. The ISFP sociopath I think emulated that adventurous pace but didn't sustain it. That was disappointing; but yeah, I'm exploring my own cadence now.

      Delete
  12. ...I meant "emanate"...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. i understood what you meant

      Delete
    2. UKanrrect-Thanks for your response.:) What I meant about the "light and dark", was not so much "good and bad", rather, do you see actual light or color such as "auras"?

      Delete
    3. no. we aren't nutters.

      Delete
    4. UKanrrect-I just wanted to clarify, but believe you answered my question. Thank you.:) The reason I asked is that I have had several times in my life, where complete strangers have approached me, and complimented my "aura".:) I know they were not attempting to "hit on me", and could tell they were sincere. I believe they did "see a light" or "colors", that emanated from me, that they found beautiful.:) The first one was a "mystic", so it must have something to do, with the spiritual realm. I wondered if it might be something that psychopaths/sociopaths, could also pick up on...

      Delete
    5. UKanrazy-I like your sense of humor-you made me giggle.:) "Nutters" works.:)

      Delete
    6. What those strangers were doing was attempting a "cold read" of you. It's the application of practical psychology at the intimate level of face to face interaction. Anyone can learn the skill, especially those who are inclined to be "social predators", a.k.a. sociopaths. I use to all the time, particularly when I'm initially engaging with someone in conversation and I'm scoping out how to best approach manipulating them.

      ESTP Sociopath

      Delete
    7. generally i found mystics and "shamans" to be narcissists: deluded blow hards who think they have the keys to some hidden truth which makes them special. in reality they can't even understand themselves let alone others.

      we pick up on your tonality, speech patterns, and certain mannerisms. sociopaths are very extroverted, which makes them very experienced in identifying certain personalities by experience. when you talk to many people in your life you start running into similarities to the point of being able to know pretty quickly who you are dealing with and how to deal with them. it's like when you watch the same movies over and over you can recite the lines verbatim. the difference is that you can alter the movie to your liking. you can burn the script and rewrite the entire thing.

      imagine a mirror where the reflection makes you move to it's pleasure. that is a sociopath.

      Delete
    8. *I use it all the time, particularly when I'm initially engaging with someone in conversation and I'm scoping out how to best approach manipulating them.

      ESTP Sociopath

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    9. UKanrazy-The woman seemed in her "right mind", otherwise.:) It was interesting. I was at a restaurant, and there were a group of "mystics", probably around 100 people, having a dinner meeting/gathering. I was not apart of their group, but was sitting at a table adjacent, to where they were. When the speaker finished speaking to the group, she looked right at me in the crowded room, and commented in front of everyone, how "beautiful my aura was", and made a bee-line straight to me. The whole room of people, were looking at me, at that point. When she reached my table, she asked me if I'd like a free tarot card reading, as she had given them to everyone in her group, before her presentation. I said ok, and she attempted to give me a reading, but was unable to. I had seen her successfully giving people readings, before she spoke. She said she had never been unable to read someone's cards before, and seemed quite disturbed, she could not give me a reading...

      Delete
    10. The reason I asked is that I have had several times in my life, where complete strangers have approached me, and complimented my "aura".:) I know they were not attempting to "hit on me", and could tell they were sincere. I believe they did "see a light" or "colors", that emanated from me, that they found beautiful.:)

      Don't be foolish and fall for such flattery. there have been several women on this blog with that same story a few years back. we used to laugh at it. we called the men in the stories the "shamans".

      search for shaman on the right hand side search bar on this blog (not the top). you will see what i am talking about.

      Delete
    11. Oh yes, tarot cards. They're delightful. I taught myself to read the cards a long time ago, becausing it provides a safe cover to interview someone for information you need, as well as use it as a means of fast talking someone into taking the kind of action you want them to do.

      ESTP Sociopath

      Delete
    12. The woman seemed in her "right mind"

      if you think some bird reading people's fortunes in tea leaves is in her right mind you need to take a serious look at your own gullibility.

      that being said you wouldn't have put it in quotation marks if you actually deep down thought that was a true statement.

      Delete
    13. UKan Reed-I was being PC-you caught me.:)

      Delete
  13. UKan Surge-I am a pretty "hard sell".:) Only the "best of the best", can fool me.:) I get hit on a lot, by both men and women, and that experience was definitely different. A different vibe. It was a "novelty", until it happened to me again. It was in the bathroom, at an arena. The bathroom was packed with women. A woman approached me, and told me I had a "beautiful aura". I did not see her do anything similar to any of the other women in the bathroom, either before or after, she approached me. The way she looked at me-she wasn't looking at me, but "around me". It was as if she was looking at "light" or "colors" surrounding me. She seemed "normal" otherwise. She gave me a business card, AND SHE WAS A MYSTIC!!! She invited me, to come to their group meetings. The "mystics" really seem to like me, for some reason.:)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Clearly they want your booty. Or something. Money? No doubt.

      ESTP Sociopath

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    2. UKan Surge-I am a pretty "hard sell".:) Only the "best of the best", can fool me.:)

      that's what you think. a mystic is hardly the best of the best and if you think people can see auras you are a sucker.

      The way she looked at me-she wasn't looking at me, but "around me". It was as if she was looking at "light" or "colors" surrounding me. She seemed "normal" otherwise. She gave me a business card, AND SHE WAS A MYSTIC!!! She invited me, to come to their group meetings. The "mystics" really seem to like me, for some reason.:)

      ha ha ha. she saw you coming didn't she. a bit of spiritual flattery and exaggerated head movements, and you become a pawn to the next wanna be cult.

      yes, you are special special special. i saw a glow around you that identifies you as such. come join our group of muppets. we sit around every weekend talking about how special and different we are from the rest of the fucktards populating this world.

      Delete
    3. ESTP-It was definitely not sexual. They also did not attempt to sell me anything. That's why I thought, they might really be seeing something. I couldn't figure out, why else they would bother? The fact that I was the only one they approached, in very busy public places, also added to the curiosity...

      Delete
    4. ...also the fact, that they both ended up being "mystics"...

      Delete
    5. ...they were definitely different experiences. They were not attempting to pick me up, sell me anything, or get anything from me...

      Delete
    6. ...that's why they "stick out in my head". There was no known reason for it...

      Delete
    7. People always want something, be it money, sex, or whatever. People want power or resources and act upon their thoughts to take the kind of actions to acquire those things.

      Perhaps I'm projecting my sociopathic perspective onto them, though; I typically only do things with a direct benefit in mind, however small or large. I rarely do something for the sake of just doing it, like pointless small talk with someone who has no utility in my eyes. It doesn't suit me.

      ESTP Sociopath

      Delete
    8. Interesting, ESTP Sociopath.

      People always want something - this is true although there may not be a conscious representation of the driver.

      Let's take the small talk example, for instance.

      Chitchat, small talk could serve an evolutionary need to bond with others

      As my aspie friend is fond of saying, the brain efficiently seeks outcomes.

      The datapoints we have are to be expected given the different wiring of the socio/psychopath.

      Delete
    9. Right. I don't ever see it as "emotional bonding" though; it is merely a step in the process of acquiring what I desire from someone, portraying what I believe to be the right impression of the emotional state that I believe would appeal to the person in question, and adjusting that emotional impression as needed with their ever changing emotional state which I'm molding with my hands like clay. That's "emotional bonding" to me essentially. Whatever makes the other person happy I suppose. That's all what small talk could be good for to me, assuming who I'm conversing with seems worth my time.

      ESTP Sociopath

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    10. Let's take the small talk example, for instance.

      Chitchat, small talk could serve an evolutionary need to bond with others


      That is true. Most interactions with people are not some nefarious scheme or desire to obtain something from the other person.

      Delete
    11. Sometimes, and perhaps it often is just as simple as accomplishing the goal of being able to see the sane person again knowing that they'll play along with you because they now have that emotional investment in you. It's not always "nefarious schemes or desires", which reminds me once more of "for nothing is good or bad, but thinking makes it so"; most of the impulses I follow when interacting with others I would like to think are "good" ones, according to my own instincts.

      ESTP Sociopath

      Delete
    12. Yes, I think this is an example of two different modes of existence.

      People don't often have a motive for chit chat; it just feels good. But that feeling good serves an evolutionary function of bonding. It makes sense, given the different wiring, that you wouldn't have that feeling with chit-chat and hence would only engage if you can attach an outcome to it.

      "their ever changing emotional state which I'm molding with my hands like clay."
      People are horrified to hear these things; it is difficult and can breed cynicism. I am looking for something beyond cynicism_ our qualitative experience of life need not be diminished because some operate as you describe. The question is of framing a better understanding of human sociality and progressing on the basis of individual freedom and responsibility.

      Delete
    13. does anyone else get the feeling here that most of you are over analyzing something completely banal.

      Delete
    14. Ukan Bore-Yes.:)

      Delete
    15. Boring because *you* can't feel it? I didn't expect it to resonate with you.

      Nice try.

      Delete
    16. boring because over analyzing idle chit chat is almost as tedious as actually engaging in it.

      Delete
    17. See previous comment.

      But my mistake - this idle chit chat at least achieved more attention for you! Win!

      Delete
    18. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    19. don't assume i have the same objectives as you in this banter.

      Delete
    20. UKan Troll, you seem bored. What shall we do about it?

      Delete
    21. is that an offer

      Delete
    22. i don't over analyze. i just jump in without thought.

      Delete
  14. UKanaura-You make me laugh.:) I didn't fall for either of them, but did wonder, if they were actually "seeing something". If they were, I wondered if psychopaths/sociopaths could, too.:) If there was something to that...

    ReplyDelete
  15. UKan and ESTP-I think I'm fairly intelligent.:) I can tell you guys are "the best of the best".:)

    ReplyDelete
  16. ...I could tell, from the first posts I read of yours.:)

    ReplyDelete
  17. ...I can tell you are "quite the forces to be reckoned with". As North said-we can "feel your energy", through the screen...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. While that's flattering, do remember that our mental condition does not confer any specialness to us. Each and every sociopath is just one among many more. I'm well aware any feeling of specialness is simply an inflation of the ego.

      ESTP Sociopath

      Delete
  18. ESTP-That's what I like about you.:) You are intelligent, yet grounded.:)

    ReplyDelete
  19. ESTP-While some may see being grounded as a weakness, I see it as a strength.:)

    ReplyDelete
  20. Yes, I would like to think I'm grounded with my ego, but even that flucuates; I have my moments when even my own megalomania is undeniable, when I believe that I'm capable of even grasping godly power. I am, however, nothing more than a human being, and thus my mind and body only has the capacity to do what any human can realistically achieve. In that sense I'm humble, yet that kind of thinking doesn't stop me from pushing the limits of my potential.

    ESTP Sociopath

    ReplyDelete
  21. ...they were definitely different experiences. They were not attempting to pick me up, sell me anything, or get anything from me...

    You said earlier she wanted you to come to her group meetings. the motive is obvious here.

    no doubt she wanted to add to the ranks of her muppet collective; a weekly gathering where either her or someone she worshipped spoke lies to wide eyed idiots while they sat around eating bagels waiting for the spaceship from mars to beam them up.

    whether you like to admit it or not she made you feel special. it oozes through your words. you asked yourself why me. which is why you mentioned that there were many other women in the room. why me? she chose me out of all those people and told me i was special.

    you are a mark. that's why you. you believe you can't be fooled and that's everyone's first mistake when dealing with someone who manipulates people as a way of life. i can tell you right now that when i know someone thinks that they can't be duped i know i have them right where i want them. it's only a matter of finding the soft spot.

    ReplyDelete
  22. "Perhaps I'm projecting my sociopathic perspective onto them, though; I typically only do things with a direct benefit in mind, however small or large. I rarely do something for the sake of just doing it, like pointless small talk with someone who has no utility in my eyes. It doesn't suit me."

    "Yes, I would like to think I'm grounded with my ego, but even that flucuates; I have my moments when even my own megalomania is undeniable, when I believe that I'm capable of even grasping godly power. I am, however, nothing more than a human being, and thus my mind and body only has the capacity to do what any human can realistically achieve. In that sense I'm humble, yet that kind of thinking doesn't stop me from pushing the limits of my potential."

    ESTP I know by reading this that you are very intelligent - I mean truly intelligent (not psychopathic "intelligence"). Don't stunt this by selling out. God is with you if you call Him and so are some of His other admirers.

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    Replies
    1. I must let you down softly, Jonaid, because I do acknowledge the possibility that your words are spoken with good intentions. You can lead me to what you believe to be the right path for me, but it is solely up to me to decide whether following it will lead to the fulfillment and enrichment that will reward me with the kind of life I can look back upon like a beautiful work of art.

      ESTP Sociopath

      Delete
    2. Of course you're correct. You seem to think that I actually believe that another person - even an idiot - can be permanently forced to see the world as you see it. No that is not possible. One can learn from someone else, see something they didn't see before, but it is they themselves who decide if it will "work" for them. When it comes to Truth, however, a person can deny it but they cannot justify doing so. They have the right (God given) to refuse it and no other person can do anything to them. You'd be a minion - which I strongly advocate AGAINST - if you blindly followed me or any ideology. God doesn't demand blind faith. I hope you give me more credit than that. I have never followed anything blindly in my life (except some sociopaths somewhat I guess lol) but I didn't treat anything with more diligence and cynicism than God yet each and every time He's proven Himself True without a doubt.

      Good luck.

      Delete
    3. Why do you think I say "call to God alone" instead of "listen to me." I can't do anything I myself am relying on Him but it's a reliance I'm beyond ecstatic to be dependent on. Who'd have thought slavery could be such bliss? There is no such thing as ultimate freedom or power for mortals like us. The only question is whether you are sane enough to submit to a Gracious God or to delude yourself temporarily into thinking you are a god yourself (and thus being a pawn of a envious deceiver).

      Delete
    4. When it comes to Truth, however, a person can deny it but they cannot justify doing so. They have the right (God given) to refuse it and no other person can do anything to them. You'd be a minion - which I strongly advocate AGAINST - if you blindly followed me or any ideology. God doesn't demand blind faith

      That's exactly what gods require. blind faith. being a minion. that's exactly what you are jihadi. you are a follower sucked in by your obvious lack of identity, as you latch onto a belief you desperately hope will give you some purpose in a life that has been completely devoid of it.

      Delete
  23. I have curiousity that wants to be quenched. "UKan" is a name with a history on this blog, right? I get the impression that perhaps this individual was known for their rigid or at least entertaining perspective (I'm guessing, just a shot in the dark). Did the "true" UKan leave sometime ago because he was outted perhaps?

    It doesn't matter too much, as seniority or past personas acted out on this blog don't have much weight in my eyes. My primary purpose here that I have decided is to have wgat I deem constructive conversations with fellow sociopaths and normal people.

    ESTP Sociopath

    ReplyDelete
  24. This reminds me of Sam Vaknin's tips for identifying manipulators, in an 'Art of Charm' podcast:

    'First of all, psychopaths and narcissists are too good to be true. They immediately home in on you, they focus their attention, you become the centre of the world.

    'They are relentlessly charming, they make you feel you are the one and only; like you are unique, like you've never felt before.

    'On the other hand, at the same time, they subtly inject an endless list of their accomplishments - skills, talents, brilliance, accuity, good fortune, this and that, you know.

    'So, at the same time, they make you feel special because they are special and they've chosen you.'

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Did the "true" UKan leave sometime ago because he was outted perhaps?


      no i left because this place got stagnant and boring. m.e. started this forum bollocks that just turned into a big circle jerk of the same characters day in and day out.

      at the beginning there was just a comment section like this, with a revolving door of muppets to fuck with.

      Delete
    2. Anon 1:31-Your insight is perfection...

      Delete
    3. ESTP-What do you mean, by was "UKan outted"? "Outted" in what way?

      Delete
    4. We used to expose people's real identities on here for kicks

      Delete
    5. the forum has sunk to 4chan /b/ levels...

      http://ow.ly/WP4yr

      I shortened it because the full one would give it away

      I don't think the blog has been mentioned there in a year.

      Delete
    6. How lovely. Thrilling drama right there.

      ESTP Sociopath

      Delete
  25. For those of you who prefer not to listen to a recitation while reading, I've extracted the verses pertaining to Satan and his grand scheme. Note that his crime was 1) pride, 2) disobedience, 3) refusal to repent (but instead blame God for his own mistake).

    In the name of God, The All-Merciful, The Compassionate.

    "And certainly We created man of clay that gives forth sound, of black mud fashioned in shape.

    And the Jinn race, We had created before, from the fire of a scorching wind.

    Behold! thy Lord said to the angels: "I am about to create man, from sounding clay from mud moulded into shape;

    "When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him."

    So the angels prostrated themselves, all of them together:

    Not so Iblis: he refused to be among those who prostrated themselves.

    (God) said: "O Iblis! what is your reason for not being among those who prostrated themselves?"

    (Iblis) said: "I am not one to prostrate myself to man, whom Thou didst create from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape."

    (God) said: "Then get thee out from here; for thou art rejected, accursed.

    "And the curse shall be on thee till the day of Judgment."

    (Iblis) said: "O my Lord! give me then respite till the Day the (dead) are raised."

    (God) said: "Respite is granted thee

    "Till the Day of the Time appointed."

    (Iblis) said: "O my Lord! because Thou hast put me in the wrong, I will make (wrong) fair-seeming to them on the earth, and I will put them all in the wrong,-

    "Except Thy servants among them, sincere and purified (by Thy Grace)."

    (God) said: "This (way of My sincere servants) is indeed a way that leads straight to Me.

    "For over My servants no authority shalt thou have, except such as put themselves in the wrong and follow thee."

    And verily, Hell is the promised abode for them all!"

    Qur'an 15:26-43

    NOTE:

    Even Satan (Iblis) refers to God as "My Lord." This goes to show a "Kafir" is NOT necessarily a "disbeliever" but rather one who is disobedient out of pride - deliberately covering up the truth. Satan is not unaware of God's existence or His sole Dominion.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Tldr.

      Nobody wants to read your copy/paste of the quran you swine.

      you are not a muslim. you are just latching onto anything that will give you a sense of belonging.

      your contribution to this conversation is as valuable as a spam bot for cock growth pills.

      Delete
    2. UKan Bore-I love your posts-they crack me up!!!

      Delete
    3. I imagine a mad man sitting with his PC typing one vulgar statement and then another with a different ID. He probably sips his beer and laughs to himself.

      Delete
    4. Something like that.

      Delete
    5. You won't be mad if you choose to be sane. God is just a call away. Trust those you have every reason to trust. May I be doomed forever if I'm lying to you.

      Delete
    6. most likely im the only sane person here. the lot of you are complete muppets.

      Delete
    7. NOTE:

      I don't mean to sound too important but since the psychos here will start saying I ran off or something I have to say: I'll be oversees for next 2 1/2 weeks and will likely be absent or participate minimally. So don't believe some liar about how I gave up on God or who knows what else they may say.

      Peace.

      Delete
    8. nice excuse to tuck your tail and run out on god jihadi

      Delete
    9. Some things are too precious to be sold out. They can be lost temporarily but they come back.

      Delete
  26. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  27. Psychopaths/Sociopaths-Do you get "goosebumps", when you hear a song you really like? My guess is no...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Your guess is right, at least with me. Hasn't happened so far.

      Have seen it on others, do you know why? Has it happened to you? (If yes, how often/regularly?)

      Delete
    2. Depends on the sociopath you ask. Personally, I have experienced this. We can still experience euphoria, or whatever you may call it. It tends to be more difficult to induce this in socios though.

      -Fellow Sociopath

      Delete
    3. Fellow Sociopath-Thank you, for your response!!! Euphoria is the perfect word.:) It's good to know, that psychopaths/sociopaths can experience this.:)

      Delete
  28. Hey NM-Have you seen it with other psychopaths/sociopaths, or only non-psychopaths/sociopaths? My guess would be, only with the "nons". I am non-socio, and can tell you why it happens to me-when I have extreme feeling/emotion. I am a music lover, so it usually happens to me, when I hear some really good new music.:) It can also happen, if I have a "creeped out" feeling. That's why you'll hear people say, "It raised the hair on my...neck, arms, etc." It is highly circumstantial, so it's difficult to say how often/regularly, it happens. A year can go by, where it doesn't happen. Then, I can have a year, when it happens fairly frequently...

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    Replies
    1. I don't get them with music, but with certain sharp sounds and touches. Here I need to mention, my brain is wired a little different from most people's - I mistake sound for haptic information (and sometimes color...). That's called synesthesia.

      Should have made clear, I meant people in general.

      I have seen it only on one other (supposed) sociopath/narc, but I guess it's not related to the condition. I would have thought it's focus or interest related, since I could study said narc up close and he always got goosepumps when a certain song played, even on crappy speakers. Generally speaking it happened way more often to him than to other people (socio or not).

      Thank you for your feedback.

      P.S. My friend is much better now. Had some viral infect and self-doubt. Helped him to get over both :)

      Delete
    2. NM-So when you hear something, you feel touch or see color? Just want to make sure, I understand.:) Maybe it's focus or interest related, which causes extreme emotion/feeling, and finally manifests as goosebumps.:) I'm glad your friend is better.:) You sound like a good friend-he's lucky to have you.:)

      Delete
    3. Yes, I feel sounds - the most distinctive is the subway, IMO.
      Colors are less distracting, they're mostly very faint. It's actually not so much 'seeing' them as it is rather 'sensing' them somehow. Not sure how to explain.

      "You sound like a good friend-he's lucky to have you.:)"
      We'll see whether he's lucky. It was mostly self-interest. ;)

      Delete
  29. PS-How is your friend, who needed help?

    ReplyDelete
  30. Speaking for myself, even if it's something as small as watching a horror movie or up close and intimate as confronting a thug wielding a knife, there's no "creepy/scared sensation". I just quietly take in the beauty of the cinematography or feel the exquisite calm of the eye of the storm as the knife kisses the air by my skin.

    So no, music doesn't give me goosebumps. I might take in the beauty of how they made the music, but their is no fear associated with the experience.

    ESTP Sociopath

    ReplyDelete
  31. ESTP-Thank you, for your input. I have often thought of what it would be like, to be in this world/in these bodies, and have either little or no feeling/emotion. I just had a thought-an analogy: As a non-socio, I think it would be like watching a silent movie. I know there are people who love silent movies. To me, so much is lost, without the sound...

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  32. PS-I can also see, how so much emphasis would be on the mental and visual aspects of the film, for psychopaths/sociopaths...

    ReplyDelete
  33. ESTP-If you could experience some or more feelings/emotion, would you want to? How would you describe your thoughts about feelings/emotion?

    ReplyDelete
  34. I would like to think any emotion I'm capable of is perhaps egocentric and fleeting, like trying to tune into the channel of emotional reality on a television displaying white noise, and only getting flickers of emotion that come from being centered around myself. I think that frequently that if they occur, it's to feel the emotional impact that is rationally meaningful to me, and otherwise when it seems like I have difficulty describing my real(?) emotions because the lack of sense of true self born from the "artist with the mirror" effect I've spoken before of previously. I reflect an image back at whoever I interact with that I want to use, formed from what I believe to appeal to them the most, a constant reconfiguration of a mental rubix cube. Who, then, is the real me, and the real emotions?

    I don't see any use in ruminating upon what emotions or feelings I'll never get to experience. Nothing will ever be different from what it has been for me when it comes to my mental condition.

    ESTP Sociopath

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    Replies
    1. "I don't see any use in ruminating upon what emotions or feelings I'll never get to experience. Nothing will ever be different from what it has been for me when it comes to my mental condition."

      This is not true and millions of people can attest to it. I myself am increasingly noticing an higher capacity to emotionally connect with myself and others. Also, even psychopaths feel extremely "warm-hearted" when on certain drugs (i.e. mdma). A relative once said after consuming molly: "I have feelings! How do I keep these? Can I get them without molly?" - They didn't realize that they actually had them a long time ago. They sold themselves and eventually they lost their own heart.

      Delete
    2. They could get it back but it's not "given." You have to make the effort.

      Delete
    3. It's a fallacy that sociopaths have no emotions.

      being a sociopath is merely having extreme forms of certain personality traits. its not a disease that needs curing. there's nothing wrong with being a sociopath.

      Delete
    4. UKanpath-There has been a lot of debate on this blog, as to whether psychopaths/sociopaths have feelings/emotions, or not. Are you a psychopath/sociopath? Do you think you have feelings/emotions? I would like to know more about what you think, about the topic...

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    5. I don't entirely lack emotions, rather I simply experience them in a sociopathic context. To the typical normal person and their perspective, it would appear to be shallow affect lying beneath the facade.

      ESTP Sociopath

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    6. I agree it's not a disease in the same way cancer is a disease. It is a self-inflicted (mostly) condition which develops gradually when you sell out. Once you decide you matter above truth and right / wrong, the process starts. Gradually, as you get more and more "into it" you eventually BECOME sociopathic. You won't remember the gradual process when you're there. You'll be in the firm grip of the Devil by then. At first it's just "It's no big deal you're just thinking there's no harm to anyone. Or its just one small lie I'll get over it." By the end of it you'll be doing the same thing with murders.

      God calls it a "disease of the heart" because at this late stage your heart is literally serving it's base desires and the devil. It's lost its original purpose.

      Think about it if you're smart and "rational" as you all claim. Don't become minions to someone who hates your tire kind. Just how you play nice to deceive and screw people, so does "the master" play nice and seduces you into joining his club. As he swore, he aims to bring you to your own destruction by deluding you. You think so highly of yourselves when you dupe others. There's one - at least if not many, many more - who are duping you and feeling even superior. With God is Truth - no lying to inflate your ego to seduce you. He has REAL power He doesn't have to lie to you and loses nothing if you disobey.

      I'm waiting to fly off so I thought a few last minute comments...

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    7. There has been a lot of debate on this blog, as to whether psychopaths/sociopaths have feelings/emotions, or not.

      this blog's debates are a piss poor example of sociopaths considering the blog owner is a narcissist and the commentators are a mix of autistic over analytical spaz jobs, ready made abuse victims, and open minded hippies ready to be duped.

      you want ready about actual sociopaths crack open a book of someone who studied them.

      Do you get "goosebumps", when you hear a song you really like? My guess is no...
      Do you believe that you do not have a "core self"?
      Do you think you have feelings/emotions?


      i can imagine next in this line of questioning will be "Do sociopaths eat biscuits?"

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    8. I agree it's not a disease in the same way cancer is a disease. It is a self-inflicted (mostly) condition which develops gradually when you sell out. Once you decide you matter above truth and right / wrong, the process starts. Gradually, as you get more and more "into it" you eventually BECOME sociopathic.

      you have the mind of a child. i imagine you are in here trying to save souls all day because your little boyfriend is getting fucked up the arse right now in the nick. ha ha ha.

      oh i would've loved to be there for the tormented days you had after he went away, as you just fell apart. the anger, the resentment, then the blame. you trying to understand, then when you resolved it to not being his fault. no it was the "dog". that's where to put all the blame isnt it. it was all the bad influence.

      after all, you can still save morgans soul. thats what you are doing here isnt it? trying to save morgan over and over. well let me fill you in on something jihad, there's no saving morgan. he is fucked for life and there is nothing you can do about it.

      think about that on your flight.

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    9. UKanned-I know there are psychopaths/sociopaths in the world who eat biscuits-they are too yummy not to.:)

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    10. ...especially, since many people in various countries around the world, refer to cookies as "biscuits".:)

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    11. "the anger, the resentment, then the blame. you trying to understand, then when you resolved it to not being his fault."

      Is this a common pattern?

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    12. UKunt http://bit.ly/1TMLHcz

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    13. "oh i would've loved to be there for the tormented days you had after he went away, as you just fell apart. the anger, the resentment, then the blame. you trying to understand, then when you resolved it to not being his fault. no it was the "dog". that's where to put all the blame isnt it. it was all the bad influence.

      after all, you can still save morgans soul. thats what you are doing here isnt it? trying to save morgan over and over. well let me fill you in on something jihad, there's no saving morgan. he is fucked for life and there is nothing you can do about it.

      think about that on your flight."

      OK first off the plane is operative so I'm delayed.

      This post was very disturbing. He was never my "boyfriend" albeit we hit off very well. I don't deny my heart fell for him - the him that I almost never saw again after the first few months. I love everything good about him - perhaps too much. I know he'll be okay because I've seen his good side and I can't believe that such beauty can be overtaken.

      Maybe he feels guilty and doesn't think he has in him what me and his dad saw. Maybe he feels horrible thinking about his past and despaired but he should know that God forgives anything and everything if one sincerely repents while alive. I blamed him not for hurting me but for not trusting me when I needed someone to trust me. It wasn't his fault that my family screwed me big time - I needed too much and we barely knew each other. Maybe he too erred because he feared I was wronging him. It doesn't matter - I got more than I could have imagined and how can I not wish that he too is freed and sees what God has shown me.

      As for saving his soul - I swear to God I had no intention of starting regular posts on this blog nor saving him. I was recovering myself. I emailed M.E. because I read her book and she came across as sincere. My message ended up here, I posted a few comments and I was having a genuine discussion with the posters which turned into a huge learning experience for me. He showed up and since then yes, I have tried to help him. It hurts me to think of him so lost. Yes, despite my attempts, I have not yet been able to free myself of him. Maybe there's a reason or maybe it'll take longer.

      He's not screwed for life. He's going thru the latter stage or his journey back. Very soon, God-willing.

      Peace.

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    14. IF he ever needs me, I hope he knows I will be there and this time I will not expect anything in return - even trust or appreciation - because this time God would be primary reason why I'm there. Second reason would be because I don't want him to be lost. It's up to him to decide who he trusts. I've done my part - I hope.

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    15. You said you're sure I'd meet your Dad one day. If you give out what reason will I have to meet him?

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    16. IF he ever needs me, I hope he knows I will be there and this time I will not expect anything in return - even trust or appreciation - because this time God would be primary reason why I'm there. Second reason would be because I don't want him to be lost. It's up to him to decide who he trusts. I've done my part - I hope.

      forever the doormat.

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    17. No buddy, I was and will never be a "doormat." There's just some people you just can't help but do everything for. Why not? God gave me more than I could have dreamt of - despite my not believing in Him - so why should I not do the same? And not do it for those I love the most?

      If that makes me a doormat, I'm happy to be one. Come on now don't be enslaved that's not fitting for K's son.

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    18. Look what you did. My flight got delayed till tomorrow!

      Delete
    19. "he is fucked for life and there is nothing you can do about it."

      Why would you say that? You can message me elsewhere it doesn't have to be here. I don't need to fly off with this on my mind.

      Delete
    20. Why would you say that? You can message me elsewhere it doesn't have to be here. I don't need to fly off with this on my mind.

      thats actually why i said it.

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    21. One day I'll bring you here, God-willing

      Delete
  35. ESTP-Do you believe that you do not have a "core self"? Or, do you think that it is possible you do have a "core self" and that for whatever reason, you are unable to connect to it?

    ReplyDelete
  36. PS-I imagine not having/being able to connect to a "core self", would be a lot like being a "blank page". Ready and waiting to be filled, and then on to the next page. Each page a "different work of art"...

    ReplyDelete
  37. Okie doke folks...until the end of the month. Don't let the minions get to you. God is with you if you call Him.

    Peace.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. UKan B.D. IllusionalJanuary 9, 2016 at 12:27 PM

      You idiot. are you really delusional enough to think a bunch of broken muppets on a sociopath blog comment section are somehow your flock of muslim converts?

      ha ha ha. i hope you are flying to syria to dynamite yourself for your worthless god.

      Delete
    2. UKan B.D. Illusional-I agree with your comment about being "broken muppets". I believe all people are are broken and muppets in some way, to a certain extent...

      Delete
    3. My aim is to speak the truth in the midst of deception so I do that. I wrote that because I know you sellouts will start saying all kinds or BS about why I'm missing - not because I have a following.

      Peace.

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    4. My aim is to speak the truth in the midst of deception so I do that. I wrote that because I know you sellouts will start saying all kinds or BS about why I'm missing - not because I have a following.


      the truth is nobody will notice or care that you aren't here commenting.

      Delete
  38. PS-I believe it is the "human condition"...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The feeling of being broken is trapped energy or impulse. We lock ourselves in prison; we always have the key.

      I agree with UKan* that there's nothing inherently wrong with being a sociopath. There's nothing wrong with being any neurotype.

      I want to write further on this topic as it pertains to the original post - very busy this weekend.

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  39. Morgan (I don't speak code - I'm just not using your real name for obvious reasons):

    You'll be one of the best advocates for the Truth. You have latent in you all the qualities, including some I wish I had. You also have way more experience than me and, according to your IQ, you're more intelligent than I. Don't give up your true role for a false sense of power and a few years or decades of "fun."

    Ciao now.

    ReplyDelete
  40. http://youtu.be/6fI_SyKGef4

    ESTP Sociopath

    ReplyDelete
  41. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq7OQXGX6RI

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  42. Until next time. Behave yourself!

    ReplyDelete
  43. One strange psychopath myth(?): they are always EVIL. Surely there is some consciousless granny out there who´s not evil at all? She may be cold, manipulative & rather indifferent..but GOOD? I´ve never read any psychological explanation to why EVIL is involved in the condition. Selfishness sure, but few normal people are not selfish? This is not a psycho "roadblock" for being (doing) good.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 'Antisocial' is a better term than 'evil'. It's less emotive, more descriptive.

      You make a good point: people act in self-interest all the time. Makes sense - we don't survive otherwise. Each day we balance self interest with social interests because we are members of a social species. These competing interests also often coincide.

      Psychopaths also experience antisocial impulses. There's an additional tension here because as members of a social species, they have to exist in society, even if only to a minimal extent.

      Delete
  44. More people need to be on http://sociopath-community.com/

    !!! it used to be connected to this blog but was disconnected over a year ago. We need fresh blood and lots of interesting things have happened recently that will go down in the forum's history!

    ReplyDelete
  45. Tiny Tanks is a popular game that all of you would like. In which you can play Tiny Planes, Run 3 Unblocked Hacked unblocked Games. Or you can go to play Tiny Planes Tiny Planes Beta

    ReplyDelete

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