Monday, January 4, 2016

Out of sync = red flag

Someone tweeted this TED article to me and I retweeted it, but also thought I would give my thoughts: "This is how our bodies betray us in a lie". The main idea is:

When we are being inauthentic — projecting a false emotion or covering a real one — our nonverbal and verbal behaviors begin to misalign. Our facial expressions don’t match the words we’re saying. Our postures are out of sync with our voices. They no longer move in harmony with each other; they disintegrate into cacophony.

The article is pretty interesting. It talks about how most people focus on the words when they're trying to determine who is a liar or not, but body language is a much better determinant. They did studies that found that people with brain hemisphere issues that make them less prone to focus on language do better at identifying liars than people with brain hemisphere issues that don't.

And this passage:

Presence manifests as resonant synchrony. Presence stems from believing our own stories. When we don’t believe our stories, we are inauthentic — we are deceiving, in a way, both ourselves and others. And this self-deception is, it turns out, observable to others as our confidence wanes and our verbal and nonverbal behaviors become dissonant. It’s not that people are thinking, “He’s a liar.” It’s that people are thinking, “Something feels off. I can’t completely invest my confidence in this person.” As Walt Whitman said, “We convince by our presence,” and to convince others we need to convince ourselves.

... makes me think of my own life experiences. There are so many weird things that happen to me, like my school nurse detaining me for suspicion of drug usage, or getting detained by security officers, getting interrogated by building maintenance personnel, or any number of weird situations. I have had two really weird situations like this in the past few months, being told that my "story doesn't add up" and basically be one or two steps away from having the cops called on me for nothing. I was talking to a family member about it who said that these people are all just picking up on a vibe from me that seems a little off, like I'm a person of interest or a sketchy character -- I'm triggering some evolutionary level warning system in their brains. I do think this is true, but I always wondered what their warning system is or what it is about me that triggers it. Now I wonder if it's not his asynchrony between my body movements and words that comes from being a naturally sort of inauthentic seeming person.

Also regarding all of this being hard work:

Simply put, lying — or being inauthentic — is hard work. We’re telling one story while suppressing another, and as if that’s not complicated enough, most of us are experiencing psychological guilt about doing this, which we’re also trying to suppress. We just don’t have the brainpower to manage it all without letting something go — without “leaking.”

A lot of people wonder how I could be basically an introvert while being sociopathic. The reason why is because it is so draining to have to project a particular image while constantly monitoring how that image is being received and making small adjustments accordingly. I've gotten a lot better about just being myself (had to have a better sense of self before that was even possible, so it's not like everyone can just choose to do that whenever they feel like it). Even that takes a little bit more effort, though, because I'm still not really used to it. And I don't love people in general. So introvert.

341 comments:

  1. "...so draining to have to project a particular image while constantly monitoring how that image is being received and making small adjustments accordingly."

    Sometime ago I met with a doctor for a psychological evaluation, and his assessment of me was eerily accurate; he told me a story of an artist who painted a portrait, and called together a group of judges to decide who amongst them it most resembled. Each of the judges stepped forward and claimed it was a portrait of himself. After all the judges had their turn, the artist said all of them we're seeing only what they wanted to see because the portrait was not in fact a painting but a mirror. The doctor said that I am very much like the artist with the mirror, only showing people what they want to see of me and thus never showing my true self, whatever that is. It's just so second nature to me now that if it puts me through any stress it is more often then not too inconsequential for me to really notice. That resilience I think is simply an adaptation within myself to deal with the mental load of social chameleon-ism.

    While the E in ESTP is for Extroversion, I'm actually almost 50/50 with being an extrovert and introvert; I'm equally comfortable at a "poppin'" social gathering as I am home alone cuddled up on the couch with a good book in one hand and a joint in the other. So when it comes to dealing with other people and reflecting back at them the kind of person I think they would want to see, I generally don't feel like it's a nuisance or too tiring and really only feel that way when I've come to the conclusion that the person I'm dealing with has no use for me; at that point it's as dry and boring to me as making pointless small talk to someone about the weather. It doesn't suit me to waste my time wearing a carefully constructed mask around people who have no utility in my eyes.

    ESTP

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    1. I do want to say though that I have a habit of picking up and bringing home books I intend to read, but never get around to doing so because I more often then not give in to the impulse to put down whatever it is I'm attempting to read (or usually I don't even get as far as opening to the first page) and go out and do something, usually with other people. So perhaps I'm a bit more extroverted than introverted, like a 52% to 48% ratio.

      ESTP

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    2. My dad is an ISTP. Probably why I relate naturally to your style - I like your posts.

      http://www.preludecharacteranalysis.com/types/istp/vs/estp

      M.E. - will you share your Myers Briggs type with us?

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    3. EST: I can really identify with what you wrote. That evaluation was interesting too. I act in a similar way in social situations. I also feel that it's not boring when it's someone I want to socialize with but I cannot imagine anything worse than being with a group of boring people. I actually find it physically painful. I LOVE having conversations with interesting people though but I guess it's more a chance for me to reflect my own thoughts.

      I've been told that introverts like solving problems by themselves, in their own mind, and extroverts turn to others. In that case I'm definitely an introvert.

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  2. I also read the article from Twitter (from @beykai) and found it interesting. It helped me remember the experience I had when my ex donned the mask he had crafted for me (along with ESTP Sociopath's comment on the previous blog post.)

    "who said that these people are all just picking up on a vibe from me that seems a little off, like I'm a person of interest or a sketchy character -- I'm triggering some evolutionary level warning system in their brains. I do think this is true, but I always wondered what their warning system is or what it is about me that triggers it. Now I wonder if it's not his asynchrony between my body movements and words that comes from being a naturally sort of inauthentic seeming person."

    Before he donned the mask, he was obviously just being his everyday work self. Very quiet and focused on coding his spreadsheets. But there was always something distinctively odd about him. I would call him the funny little French guy (he's not French, nor little.) Clearly not enough to put me off guard, but I had a hell lot of other things on my mind and he made me laugh, helped me relax. I felt very peaceful with him.

    Others at work did comment over the years, but not often. He kept to himself. The office manager (very articulate woman) couldn't quite put it into words - she ended up saying "he looks out for himself." Our boss said of him "it's the quiet ones you have to watch." Another girl once said he was odd. But most people simply said he didn't give much away. He was hyper competitive at a work go-karting event. I wasn't there, but the guys remarked at how agitated he was at losing. I remember making all sorts of excuses to me about it as well.

    He was very introverted, very opaque. And per one of your tips in that Economist blog article, M.E., he did have a set of personal anecdotes that he would roll out on various occasions. We didn't get to see much beyond that. Even when he left the company, he pulled out that same old story about his first client engagement. It was so strange watching him speak. He didn't seem comfortable. When I told him I thought he was sociopathic, and explained why, he simply said "sometimes I get confused."

    Was it asynchrony sparking these perceptions of strangeness?

    I don't know. It was too long ago. He just seemed foreign; and the fact that he *was* a foreigner and English is not his native tongue probably covered over some of the strangeness, at least in our minds.

    But there were certainly times when that asynchrony was manifest and I distinctly remember wondering whether or not I should only take his cues from his body. Hard over the phone of course.

    The blankness. Can anyone can explain that? There were a couple of times when he emanated a pure blankness. It's the only way to describe it. It wasn't like a wall or a block or a void, it was a palpable... I mean it was something, not nothing; I could feel energy. Just blank energy. It happened once after sex, towards the end of the relationship - he simply got dressed and ready to leave but it was tangible. There was a blank being behind his eyes. I think at this point I was genuinely wondering if there might not be some sort of psychological issue with him and I did a bit of research around disconnection and sexual fantasies.

    The second time was after we had broken up, perhaps two months after I told him about the letter. We were at a work training session. He had sidled up to me and I ignored him and continued to ignore him throughout the session, even though he was projecting his voice... after the session, we both got up quickly and headed in opposite directions. When I thought it was clear, I went to the kitchen, but he hadn't left, we actually nearly bumped into each other. But he sidestepped me adroitly and there it was again - that palpable blankness.

    I haven't read about it anywhere. If you guys could shed some light I'd appreciate it. I don't want to speculate.

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    1. I know I'm talking a lot about my experiences lately. I feel a very powerful urge to write about them, to tell someone. My psychologist didn't want to discuss the past; he was focused on my learning more adaptive strategies. But my heart wants to speak. I think it's my way of making space for those strange experiences at my own pace. They didn't fit previously, or the stretching was too rapid. I remember writing to him that he was stretching me with all his wild fantasies. The stretching hurt. I am open minded and curious, but I think that level of change was too much. The brain can't change at that pace.

      Yes, I know. He did it deliberately and thought it was funny. I know all that. What matters to me right now is my own brain's adaptation to knowledge of a few more things in heaven and earth than I had not previously dreamt of in my philosophy, Horatio. I think I'm allowing myself to be okay that I felt these things were strange. I feel more at peace. Strangeness doesn't scare me; I'm curious. But it was too much all at once and in concert with my other pains.

      The organism takes time to heal. I've had a few major sporting injuries and I know this deeply. I know how to care for myself and be patient in recovery. Physiological processes run at their own pace, and honouring rather than fighting them allows me to enjoy the process, even if I am not yet running.

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    2. *in heaven and earth than I had previously dreamt of*

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    3. I don't know why your ex went blank but it has happened to me sometimes. I can try to explain... once I was with a friend when I received a letter, which said that someone wanted to sue me. :D In that type of a situation I go completely blank because I turn the hyper focus setting on to try and solve something in my mind (trying to save my ass by myself basically) and I just shut out everything else around me. Does that make any sense?

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    4. Thanks Lola, yes it makes sense. High energy internal focus.

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    5. "I know I'm talking a lot about my experiences lately. I feel a very powerful urge to write about them, to tell someone."

      It's a good urge. Talking about such new and strange experiences helps you absorb and process them, and learn from them. It's a different thing from obsession with the person who may have caused them. Doing it in company that may be able to elucidate things is especially useful. Such experience doesn't absorb/bed-in easily and it can 'jam you up' while it's trying to.

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    6. I've seen the blankness too, although the first time it was more like an infinite expanse, vast, timeless, personless, behind their eyes. It was only momentary, but is what led to my looking up psychopathy.

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    7. It struck me, as something SO different that it stopped me in my tracks, and compelled me to want/need to understand it. It wasn't process-able.

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    8. Thanks, that's a great reflection!

      'Jam you up' - that made me smile. I was initially jamming many elements of the process and it hurt a lot more.

      This time last year, someone told me 'resisting is suffering.' I learnt to not resist my impulses - my feelings towards him, or my desires to see more broadly, the impulse to learn. These are a great river of change for me and I'm flourishing as a person. It's extraordinary- I feel I'll look back on this time as one the richest in my life - but I don't want that journey to cease, I want my whole life to be rich.

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    9. 'An infinite expanse, vast, timeless, personless'

      That's an excellent description.

      I felt it was really him. Then 'personless' - that's so striking. It's both; a paradox.

      I thought he doesn't belong to me, he doesn't belong to anyone, and I don't know if he belongs to himself. I shy away from calling him 'my ex' (although I do here for convenience) for this reason - he's not 'my' anything.

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    10. I did all the same things, I know exactly what you mean. You can't just switch this stuff off and trying to is lethal, compounds it. You can't engineer yourself, you have to ease and meander your way gradually out and learning about the thing itself is/ feels like the rightest thing you can be doing. And it works - transforms it and the energy into profit and something real. That Hamlet-Horatio quote really comes into its own doesn't it!

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    11. "I felt it was really him. Then 'personless' - that's so striking. It's both; a paradox."

      YES! Exactly that.

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    12. "I thought he doesn't belong to me, he doesn't belong to anyone, and I don't know if he belongs to himself. I shy away from calling him 'my ex' (although I do here for convenience) for this reason - he's not 'my' anything."

      Yes again. And the realisations/implications come all-at-once-ish, like a house of cards. It's a hell of a thing.

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    13. "I did all the same things, I know exactly what you mean. You can't just switch this stuff off and trying to is lethal, compounds it. You can't engineer yourself, you have to ease and meander your way gradually out and learning about the thing itself is/ feels like the rightest thing you can be doing. And it works - transforms it and the energy into profit and something real. That Hamlet-Horatio quote really comes into its own doesn't it!"

      Yes! Thankyou for sharing that. It does feel very right to me.

      The quote is great because we understand it at a cerebral level, but then it up and smacks you in the face and suddenly you *know* what it means. Like when you have your first child; you're unprepared no matter how prepared you are and you flow with it and learn and you're ok :D

      "YES! Exactly that."
      An intoxicating mystery.

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    14. "I felt it was really him. Then 'personless' - that's so striking. It's both; a paradox."

      I felt that too, very much. And simultaneously like I might as well have fallen in love with the universe or something.

      It's like the Wizard of Oz and the Wizard of Oz in reverse, all at once.

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    15. "I felt that too, very much. And simultaneously like I might as well have fallen in love with the universe or something. "

      I felt that too, very much. And simultaneously like I might as well have fallen in love with the universe or something.

      I thought the mysteries of the universe were bound up in your strange being. <- I wrote that to him.

      Perhaps we did fall in love with the universe. The experience sure gave me a rapaciousness for encountering the wonders of our world.

      It's so amazing - I'm glad I'm not the only one.

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    16. You know reading these I can't help but feel empathetic for you self-proclaimed socios and psychos. Assuming it's all true, what keeps popping out at me is that you're deeply into someone (whether it's actual love or just infatuation I can't say) and just don't get them. You're not considering that they're NOT like you think they are. Maybe they're exactly what they appear to be - no drama, no secret act, no hidden messages etc. The put yourself in his shoes and imagine what you're putting HIM through with your own confusion.

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    17. Leave me alone to heal in peace. Your commentary is not welcome nor desired.

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    18. Then heal in private and don't advertise your problems in public. You so deluded you lash out at good advice and welcome anything which prolongs your misery. Time to look up to the Heavens.

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    19. "It's like the Wizard of Oz and the Wizard of Oz in reverse, all at once."

      I'm allowing this to play in my mind for a while...Yes, it's exactly like that :)

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    20. Jonaid,

      1. * WE'RE NOT PSYCHOPATHS *

      2. Now re-read the posts

      3. When you understand them, please don't tell us what you think

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    21. " The quote is great because we understand it at a cerebral level, but then it up and smacks you in the face and suddenly you *know* what it means. "

      Yes exactly! And there's nothing more satisfying/ energising/ inspiring. You find out how so many things you thought you knew only had a cerebral dimension. Suddenly *knowing* is like getting free gifts, because the pay-off was so delayed. It's good stuff.

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    22. "YES! Exactly that."
      An intoxicating mystery.

      Yes... How can it not be? It's impossible.

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    23. "I thought the mysteries of the universe were bound up in your strange being. <- I wrote that to him."

      Yes. Exactly that

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    24. This is something very special for me, finding others with the same experience.

      “We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are.”

      “Each friend represents a world in us, a world possibly not born until they arrive, and it is only by this meeting that a new world is born.” ~ Anais Nin

      These are all puzzle pieces floating within me for the moment.

      Thankyou very much.

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    25. "Perhaps we did fall in love with the universe. The experience sure gave me a rapaciousness for encountering the wonders of our world."

      It played out slightly less well for me... you've surfed it better, to borrow a (ESTP's?) recent analogy. I had the rapaciousness before, and met my match. Knocked three kinds of shit out of me. But that was largely my fault for staying in way too long, from the desire to understand (it all). So I'm glad I did. But it gave me more of a rapaciousness for my duvet, for quite some time.

      "I feel I'll look back on this time as one the richest in my life - but I don't want that journey to cease, I want my whole life to be rich."

      The more time passes, the richer it gets. That's the great thing.

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    26. "But that was largely my fault for staying in way too long, from the desire to understand (it all)"

      Just to clarify - to understand all the weirdness, that is. The explanation came at the last moment, and all the understanding afterwards. (In a dark room, under my duvet, punctuacted with compulsive visits to the internet).

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    27. "It's so amazing - I'm glad I'm not the only one."

      I know. It's the same experience... All the same parts; more than the sum of its parts.

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    28. "This is something very special for me, finding others with the same experience.

      “We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are.”

      “Each friend represents a world in us, a world possibly not born until they arrive, and it is only by this meeting that a new world is born.” ~ Anais Nin

      "These are all puzzle pieces floating within me for the moment.

      Thankyou very much."


      Thanks to you too. It's the same for me. When you mentioned the blankness, I *knew* what you meant.

      Good quotes - very true!

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    29. It's very different talking to interested but un-experienced others, who can only know it cerebrally. We're kind of cut off from the normals as well as the psychopaths, aren't we! It's a funny thing.

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    30. Anon 4:17-We have similar stories!!! How long were you with your psychopath/sociopath???

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    31. Also, I know people and situations are different, but how long did it take you to recover or how long have you been recovering for?

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    32. PS-We are cut off from the normals, as well as the psychopaths/sociopaths!!! Maybe that's why, we sought out this blog.:) Were you able to tell your story, and did anyone ever believe you, and were they able to understand it beyond the mental aspect, at all?

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    33. Anon 4:17-We have similar stories!!! How long were you with your psychopath/sociopath?

      6 years. How about you?

      2 years and counting... you?

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    34. Gosh I hope they don't think this is a landgrab by Psychopath Free...

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    35. PSS-I think once you've been with a psychopath/sociopath, you are officially a "hybrid", to a certain degree. Like the hybrids in the movie series "Underworld"...

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    36. PS-We are cut off from the normals, as well as the psychopaths/sociopaths!!! Maybe that's why, we sought out this blog.:)

      Without a doubt!

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    37. 'We're kind of cut off from the normals as well as the psychopaths, aren't we! It's a funny thing.'

      Yes, precisely. It's though the universe has opened it's doors and I want to explore all at once but I'm still only able to crawl. And I feel that I understand connection with others and could enjoy it... and at the same time know that it is a biochemical process: triggered, not the absolute; animal, not some higher plane - yet not diminished for these facts either.

      Osho says that by loving everything we escape attachment. That's close to it. Daoism feels the closest.

      What have you found helpful?

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    38. 'PS-We are cut off from the normals, as well as the psychopaths/sociopaths!!! Maybe that's why, we sought out this blog.:)

      Without a doubt!'

      Yes. And I agree somewhat with hybrid, too. Some doors in the mind have opened, some are a less open than previously. I nourish my self to flourish in accordance with my own nature - and that feels more malleable or transient than it once was. And that's ok.

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    39. "Were you able to tell your story?"

      I was, and I told it like the Ancient Mariner


      "and did anyone ever believe you"

      Yes, eventually...


      "and were they able to understand it beyond the mental aspect, at all?"

      Not really... it's a curate's egg, at best!


      How about you?

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    40. Anon 4:42-22 years, and in the process of separating. I know I will recover someday!!! My current motto is, "Alive"!!! Pearl Jam's "Alive" has always been one of my favorite songs-oh the irony!!!

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    41. Anon 4:43-We are just "identifying and having a moment".:)

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    42. Anon 4:55-I've attempted to talk about it, however I don't think they will be able to understand, without the "Ancient Mariner" version. I will be telling them that version, as soon as things settle down for me.:)

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    43. PS-I apologize if I am "in and out"-I have a lot going on these days!!!

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    44. " 22 years, and in the process of separating "

      Blimey! Respect :)

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    45. "I've attempted to talk about it, however I don't think they will be able to understand, without the "Ancient Mariner" version."

      I think my first effort (about 3 years in) lasted about 8 hours! But it was prior to discovering 'the explanation', which helps enormously!

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    46. " Some doors in the mind have opened, some are a less open than previously "

      That's a nice way of putting it! Yes.

      ".. and that feels more malleable or transient than it once was "

      Definitely. In both nice ways and eerie ways, for me.

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    47. I was on my phone earlier and missed some of your posts.

      "So I'm glad I did. But it gave me more of a rapaciousness for my duvet, for quite some time."

      I have days like that. Especially when I say him or his car on a daily basis. It was like scratching an old wound.

      "The more time passes, the richer it gets. That's the great thing."
      Thankyou. That's so exciting to read... that we can continue on in beauty and wonder and curiosity.

      "The explanation came at the last moment, and all the understanding afterwards. (In a dark room, under my duvet, punctuacted with compulsive visits to the internet)."
      I have had moments like this; I remember one very potent one in particular, the very moment the feeling of needing him vanished. I was on such a high after that, I could feel the connections changing in my brain; such liberation. It happened in the morning, before work, and expanded through the day. A colleague said I sounded like a Dali painting...

      The Disintegration of the Persistence of Memory:

      http://totallyhistory.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Disintegration-of-Persistence.jpg

      I felt the mind is like a block universe, that we can rewrite our history by changing the neural pathways associated with the memories. I mean simply that we can learn and relearn from those highly charged events until they shape us and we shape ourselves. This is what I mean by malleable.

      I've looked up Ancient Mariner :)

      "".. and that feels more malleable or transient than it once was "

      Definitely. In both nice ways and eerie ways, for me."
      Well, yes, it is a little eerie!

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    48. "It played out slightly less well for me... you've surfed it better, to borrow a (ESTP's?) recent analogy."

      My relationship with him was only 7 months long. That surely must be a factor.

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    49. " Osho says that by loving everything we escape attachment. That's close to it. Daoism feels the closest."

      Very nice quote. I know exactly what you mean. It remains a tricky one though... (as I discovered when I fell in love the next one!)

      "What have you found helpful?"

      1. Duvet
      2. Nicotine
      3. This blog and talking with a friend who I simultaneously realised was psychopathic when I started reading

      I will think about this properly!... It was almost as though many little things helped a bit, but it was too big for anything to help automatically. I think because time was so necessary.

      A phrase my Dad likes to quote: "Struggle-free absorption of impact", came into its own. I think it was mostly like creating the right conditions for it to 'do itself'. Not exacerbating or obstructing it was the main thing.

      I know that many things that had previously helped me seemed to be rendered a bit meaningless, or naive-seeming, overnight. Few things came up the mark anymore. Shakespeare did, of course...

      Any light relief was wonderful... I remember finding Henry Rollins's Liar video (via this blog) a real treat, and the Peter Sellers film 'Hoffman'.

      I spent a lot of time sort of 'feeding the beast', but in as healthy a way as I could, if you know what I mean, so it was good quality intake as well as obsession. And the obsession gradually relaxed that way (she says, posting on Sociopath World for the fifteenth time today).

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    50. " My relationship with him was only 7 months long. That surely must be a factor."

      Yes, I think so. I went so far into the diminishing returns that my (hitherto perfect) health nosedived, taking everything else with it.

      You did really well to learn so much so fast, and come out of it with your gumption intact!

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    51. "And the obsession gradually relaxed that way (she says, posting on Sociopath World for the fifteenth time today)"
      This is something special today, to find someone who has not only experienced what you have but felt it in a similar way - it's rare.

      You mentioned earlier that it's not about the other person. To find that someone else has experienced the universe - that compelling infinite space - in a psychopath's eyes. It is significant. I don't know how yet. The experience itself is not diminished, but there's another connection and that connection is like the beginnings of a bridge; something sturdier than myself on the brink of void.

      Falling in love with the universe, the universe in the eyes of a person... I don't know yet, I don't know. When I say to myself that I love him, i think this is what I mean... like a sailor compelled towards the rocks with the Sirens' call... only it's not the rocks, it's the universe unfettered. How does the mind make space for the universe? Another paradox.

      I don't want to force my understanding yet. But something will happen in my mind, I really sense that.

      "It was almost as though many little things helped a bit, but it was too big for anything to help automatically. I think because time was so necessary."
      Time, yes. Perhaps it is openness that allows the help to come. I look back and see millions of little things and when I remember each one, I think "yes! that was it!" But overall, each of these was a colour in a cascade.


      "A phrase my Dad likes to quote: "Struggle-free absorption of impact", came into its own. I think it was mostly like creating the right conditions for it to 'do itself'. Not exacerbating or obstructing it was the main thing."

      I will remember this. Yes, it is apt. Flow.

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    52. I now think that constant / prolonged confusion is THE unhealthiest state possible... I will never fall for that again (I like to think). If anything confuses me now, it's its problem, not mine! I choose not be confused. To be able to live with not-knowing... Funnily, it was pretty much my position before, and was serving me well, and this came along and completely conned me off-course! It seemed more important, and infinitely worth it... of course! (dear dear...)

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    53. I feel the same about certain tendencies I've always had... I think these *allow* us to make the most of these experiences, they allow the impossible in, they do not shut it out... and the growth that comes with these strange experiences is somehow then native, organic.

      The experience is then ours.

      https://youtu.be/JEgZACpXP3U?t=2m42s

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    54. So I guess the time "North" says she's done this blog you know what to expect: she breaks for 2/3 days and then she'll shower us with endless white noise.

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    55. ^ *next time North says...*

      Almosr everytime I use my phone I skip a word!

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    56. Ah, so you're just a troll, Jonaid! After all...

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    57. By which I mean (7:03) I'm not going to wrangle and hammer-away at problems anymore, if I can possibly manage it. That's what I mean by "it's its problem". Like your Alan Watts quote the other day - living should be playful, ideally. Playful curiosity is wonderful. Tense confusion and angst are diabolical, for our whole system...

      'Teach us to care and not to care
      Teach us to sit still. '

      ~T.S. Eliot, Ash Wednesday

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    58. What is discord at one level is harmony at a higher level of the universe... free from any blemish. The world is ok ~ Alan Watts

      Life is pattern, it is a dance of energy ~ Alan Watts

      "'Teach us to care and not to care
      Teach us to sit still. '

      ~T.S. Eliot, Ash Wednesday"

      T.S. Eliot - he and Shakespeare are favourites. I have always been Hamlet; Hamlet met Iago... and now? I will discover a harmony arising from the discord.

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    59. Extraordinary! Just followed your last link - what a timely post.

      I love it. Never identify with your trouble-shooter! What a good way of looking at it. It's good stuff.

      Funnily, I was much closer to all these ideas before this episode happened. I pretty much consulted these kind of ideas and lived by them, through all the tough stuff too. And then this experience dragged me into an unreal reality and I let it all go out the window. I'm only about half way back from the depths of cynicism and apathy. But this is reminding me. It's good stuff.

      I'd never heard his voice before. I've had two of his books on the shelf, unread, since before I careered off-course, and you've reminded me of them. And this is reminding me what exactly I lost. It's the source of rejuvenation, this stuff (or points to it). Thank you!

      PS Another concept which became real for me, that you've reminded me of: Sirens.

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    60. "I have always been Hamlet"

      Yep - me too!

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    61. You know what's extraordinary - that you picked the part I also thought most pertinent!

      I have read of the cortex as an integrator, and I characterise it as the Great Verbaliser of internal and external inputs, but Watts explains it in so beautiful a fashion as though he really knows the universe as an emergence, that he experienced it all that way. He's almost flippant in his seriousness and it's because he really does treat life simply as a dance, enjoying each step of it.

      And it is so wonderful because although I have come to this place, it's still dark to a degree. And I have felt alone - in a place foreign to neurotypicals and to psychopaths. But he creates a vision for me, and I feel that although I know things, and it doesn't matter that I know them, he is, as you put it, rejuvenating.

      As this conversation has been!

      I heard him first in a chillstep mix. Then came across him referenced in other books I was reading. I ordered his The Book: On The Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are over the weekend. Can you recommend others?

      "And then this experience dragged me into an unreal reality and I let it all go out the window. I'm only about half way back from the depths of cynicism and apathy. But this is reminding me. It's good stuff."
      It's difficult. I walked that precipice and know it. It was Charlie Chaplin that brought me out, although I fought him, refused to listen, shut it off.

      "I don’t want to rule or conquer anyone. I should like to help everyone - if possible - Jew, Gentile - black man - white. We all want to help one another. Human beings are like that. We want to live by each other’s happiness - not by each other’s misery. We don’t want to hate and despise one another. In this world there is room for everyone. And the good earth is rich and can provide for everyone. The way of life can be free and beautiful, but we have lost the way."

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkDMD6D00wU
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjOkvxMHapo

      "In the 17th Chapter of St Luke it is written: “the Kingdom of God is within man” - not one man nor a group of men, but in all men! In you! You, the people have the power - the power to create machines. The power to create happiness! You, the people, have the power to make this life free and beautiful, to make this life a wonderful adventure."

      I listened to it over and over. We are mirrors of our environment, of our inputs. So I chose this and it became my vision: to make a vast and rich life, a wonderful adventure.

      There is a way in which it all fits together, but as you point out, it's quite ok to not know how. But I think Alan Watts is on the right track with his levels of discord and harmony.

      And Simon Sinek explains it so well at the level of the humans interacting as social organisms.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReRcHdeUG9Y

      The picture starts to take shape for me, and I can live and add datapoints and hear of others' experiences and the pursuit of a better model, while an obsession, is the foundation for better practice and my healing all at once.

      Please do share more of your story. I'm grateful.

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    62. Well, I've got lots to reply to your latest (or it gives me that feeling as I read, anyway - don't know what it'll comprise of yet!) but in the meantime I've been writing an altogether more curmudgeonly installment, if you can bear it and indulge me (and help lift us back out the pit afterwards). It may well be irrelevant, but it clamours to be said, all the same, having so convincingly persuaded me of its importance, amid all the infinitely interesting stuff... And once said, it'll free me to resume being playful again! This was it:

      "I feel the same about certain tendencies I've always had... I think these *allow* us to make the most of these experiences, they allow the impossible in, they do not shut it out... and the growth that comes with these strange experiences is somehow then native, organic."

      Yes, I agree. And I used to feel absolutely like this about experience... (if I'm understanding you correctly)... But now I feel that it applies...until it doesn't... by which I mean, I thought every experience could be turned to profit; transmuted this way, in the moment (or shortly thereafter!). In a sense, I still do - in the ultimate sense, I still do. But the great big But that I've had to take on board is that one can get it wrong, one can badly overestimate ones capacity to do it, or have too much faith in the inevitability of its happening, imagining that transumtation just around the corner, every moment, until by degrees you've been dismantled past the point that you can rescue yourself without some luck and the energy of other people. I'm glad I stuck in, in retrospect, only because - the one thing, really, that makes me glad - the thought that I might not have learned about this, still, is unsupportable; I would not want that ignorance and innocence back. But there are better ways of learning it. If I could trade it for your model, I would! And if I had not allowed that intoxication to trump everything, if I had stuck ruthlessly to what I previously *knew* to be important above all - that you don't surrender yourself / your autonomy to any fantasy or any person - to the universe, sure, but directly (if you know what I mean) not via a person - I'd not have been significantly damaged: the cost-benefit would have been viable. I did it the unviable way - it was not anywhere near worth it until 6, 8 (?) years on. I can be glad I did it, but I would not repeat it. Every other experience I would, but this one was madness. Maybe, I wouldn't have learned another way - who knows - but your experience confirms my hunch, that this wasn't necessary. And so I'd advise anyone to be absolutely vigilant about themselves when anywhere near a psychopath! (no offence, those who are reading this. And you know only too well what I mean). Nothing can take you apart like a psychopath. And that doesn't change, one jot, no matter how much you learn or understand, or empathise - especially empathise. You still go down the rabbit hole, the same. Once you're intoxicated, you're toast. The moment you fall for a psychopath you lose yourself (not in a good way). When you lose the psychopath you find it again, and not before. You don't learn in it, you learn out of it. And that's the infernal catch 22. It doesn't matter how arresting and fraternal that universe seems to be, it revolves just the same...

      Everything is changed, and yet everything is also the same... which is quite a nice conundrum, to be fair, and an interesting one.

      This isn't finished, but I'll post the installment... (and apologies for paragraph failure! Hope it's traversable!)

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    63. I love the Nietzsche quote: "That which does not kill us, makes us stronger".:)

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    64. Also, the following are my mottos: "Invictus" by William Ernest Henley, and "Desiderata" by Max Ehrmann.:)

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    65. Disregard all this if you think it's nonsense, by the way - it's just too big a part of where I am now not to include it along the way.

      The impression / idea I've been given by subsequent experiences is that it's a bit like the cherry and the bottle story...and remains so, inescapably (another one which took on three-dimensions for me at some point):

      'Once upon a time there was a monkey who was very fond of cherries. One day he saw a delicious looking cherry, and came down from his tree to get it. But the fruit turned out to be in a clear glass bottle. After some experimentation, the monkey found that he could get hold of the cherry by putting his hand into the bottle by way of the neck. As soon as he had done so, he closed his hand over the cherry; but then he found that he could not withdraw his fist holding the cherry, because it was larger than the internal dimension of the neck.
      Now all this was deliberate, because the cherry in the bottle was a trap laid by a monkey-hunter who knew how monkeys think.
      The hunter, hearing the monkey's whimperings, came along, and the monkey tried to run away. But, because his hand was, as he thought, stuck in the bottle, he could not move fast enough to escape.
      But, as he thought, he still had hold of the cherry. The hunter picked him up. A moment later he tapped the monkey sharply on the elbow making him suddenly relax his hold on the fruit.
      The monkey was free but he was captured. The hunter had used the cherry and the bottle, but he still had them.'

      - Which isn't to say I think it's a hopeless business or anything - quite the opposite. Just that you have to do it without grabbing the cherry. And, unfortunately, THAT is incredibly difficult! (unnatural for us). And the cherry's there, whether it's a trap or not, as it were. In my experience it's always there. And loving everything, to escape attachment - or escaping attachment by loving everything - is contingent on this 'not grabbing the cherry'.

      Just to really overdo it with the analogies, it also reminds me a bit of the little mermaid (maybe) trading her voice to join the prince... (but only that bit of the story). I think that because this paradigm is so different, it has to be done differently. But I do not think that we 'lose' by it, or that we're diminished by it - I think we're expanded by it, by adding a capacity. We 'lose' what we couldn't have had anyway, because it's an illusion, and gain what IS possible, which otherwise gets lost in the attempt. I see the mermaid's voice as the sweetness that we cherish (here's where the psychopaths start throwing up in disgust), she has to leave it behind - and the cherry the perceived sweetness in the other. The grab is our mistake.

      Something a bit like that anyway :)

      We remain alone in our own 'sweetness', it exists in parallel, a world apart.

      The interesting stuff is still there, though, and when you've quit cherry-grabbing, you can appreciate it too. As we're doing here. But in the physical world, you're on a knife-edge, or walking a tightrope - can't afford to sleepwalk! That's my experience anyway. Practicing it is fun. You get not to lose reality (escape unreality).

      Funnily enough it was my psychopath friend, when I was starting to get into trouble, that kept saying to me, "cherries and bottles come to mind...". But I didn't get it. Dropping it was not an option - not the kind of solution I wanted, so I didn't see it as relevant - but I was in upto my elbow and not until I had dropped it (and then some) could I see he'd been dead right.

      (Had I known that he was a psychopath and that my tormentor was a psychopath, I might have listened!)

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    66. " I love the Nietzsche quote: "That which does not kill us, makes us stronger".:)"

      I would add "...eventually " (I hope)

      But definitely wiser! (though it made me stupider first)

      You sound strong, though :)

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    67. I loved your story, about the cherries!!! It made me think of a good analogy: The psychopaths/sociopaths are the fruit. We are "Eve". The fruit is beautiful, and we pick it and eat it. It is delicious. Then we find out-we have "fallen"...

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    68. And no matter how horrific the "fall", we still catch ourselves sometimes, dreaming about the beautiful fruit and the taste of its sweetness-like a craving...

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    69. That's one of the reasons why, no matter how illogical, people will go back for more. It's like a craving for something sweet, or salty.:)

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    70. "I loved your story, about the cherries!!! It made me think of a good analogy: The psychopaths/sociopaths are the fruit. We are "Eve". The fruit is beautiful, and we pick it and eat it. It is delicious. Then we find out-we have "fallen"..."

      Do you know what - I was musing on that one, the other day, too! The fruit of the tree of knowledge - fits well!

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    71. "That's one of the reasons why, no matter how illogical, people will go back for more. It's like a craving for something sweet, or salty.:)"

      Yes, it's an addiction alright... logic doesn't stand a chance!

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    72. "Then we find out-we have "fallen"..."

      Yes, don't we just!

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    73. They are sirens.:) Like any temptation-our minds tell us not to "take the fruit", not to have that drink, those drugs, that sex, but we still want it. If we take it, we fall into another reality, another world...

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    74. I think us "returning to reality", is much like it would've been for Adam and Eve to return to "The Garden", pre-fall...

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    75. It'll be that much more magnificent...

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    76. "In the 17th Chapter of St Luke it is written: “the Kingdom of God is within man” - not one man nor a group of men, but in all men! In you! You, the people have the power - the power to create machines. The power to create happiness! You, the people, have the power to make this life free and beautiful, to make this life a wonderful adventure."

      "I listened to it over and over. We are mirrors of our environment, of our inputs. So I chose this and it became my vision: to make a vast and rich life, a wonderful adventure."

      This is great. I'm wondering if I've come out slightly more the world-weary cynic on account of electing to watch all 8 seasons of Curb Your Enthusiasm several times over instead..! (It got me laughing though, which was a life-saver. You can't be depressed AND laughing, at the same time, I figured. And it worked.)

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    77. Anon 1:16-Thank you for the wonderful compliment!!! You are not stupid-anyone could take the bait!!! You are recovering from an addiction, and you are wiser and stronger already!!! Remember who you were, AND STILL ARE!!! Hold onto your soul, hold onto your spirit, AND KEEP LOOKING STRAIGHT AHEAD!!! KEEP MOVING FORWARD, AND DO NOT LOOK BACK!!!

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    78. Bear with me! I've been writing and chopping and changing - I wish I knew a bit more :)

      "(It got me laughing though, which was a life-saver. You can't be depressed AND laughing, at the same time, I figured. And it worked.)" Laughter is great - I love Ricky Gervais. I thought I'd hate Derek - it can be a little cheesy - but that's another one that brought me back to the human race.

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    79. Ricky Gervais meets Larry David...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWgVr545yNA

      Brilliant! (if you haven't seen it)

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    80. Thank you, Anon 2:23 ! :)

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    81. I've now read all your subsequent posts. I wish I knew more so I don't tell you how to suck eggs.

      "As we're doing here. But in the physical world, you're on a knife-edge, or walking a tightrope - can't afford to sleepwalk! That's my experience anyway. Practicing it is fun. You get not to lose reality (escape unreality)." Tasting honey from the tip of his knife - such a thrill; you feel alive. I understand it.

      So yeah, I guess I have ended up with a method that is quite different. It might sound dangerous or unwise.

      I want to say a few things on learning from experience, but firstly, here's William Gibson:

      "You ‘know’ in your limbic brain. The seat of instinct. The mammalian brain. Deeper, wider, beyond logic. That is where advertising works, not in the upstart cortex. What we think of as ‘mind’ is only a sort of jumped-up gland, piggybacking on the reptilian brainstem and the older, mammalian mind, but our culture tricks us into recognizing it as all consciousness. The mammalian spreads continent-wide beneath it, mute and muscular, attending its ancient agenda. And makes us buy things."

      So, you see that learning in the sense of learning new behaviours MUST be something that occurs BELOW the cortex.

      The first thing to know is that you are ok. You are existing so you are ok. Just like Alan Watts said of the universe in that video.

      Your brain has brought you to this place of existence *successfully*. The patterns you developed from childhood have *worked*.

      But they don't *feel* so great right now. You want to change them for a better experience of life. This is the wonderful prerogative of the human species.

      You have a positive manner and can make connections between complex ideas and can handle a lot. These are useful resources you can draw on.

      This is about learning to flow; about removing the barriers to our own neural and muscular energy. It's about knowing yourself fully as an organism and flowing with your own organism. Strength becomes irrelevant because you are not trying to fit into your cortex's framing; rather, you understand the role your cortex is playing. It is the synthesiser of your internal and external experiences - Alan Watts' Radar. It truly is that (see here also: http://www.newphilosopher.com/articles/you-are-not-who-you-think-you-are/)

      The brain is a statistical machine, driven by beliefs - many of which were developed in early childhood. Your brain has been watching out for your survival all your life - love it for that! Love yourself. And realise you are pure potential.


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    82. Think of the cherry and bottle analogy as his framing of the situation. You want the cherry. You want it. Smash the bottle. It *will* hurt a bit. You will lose him. He will not play any longer. You may even squeeze that cherry to something inedible. But you have listened to your heart's desire and reframed the situation.

      But your soul will thank you. And your brain will learn there are better places to find cherries, even if it does hunt for cherries in a bottle for some time.

      The more you chase what you *actually* desire, the more resourceful your brain becomes in finding what you want.

      Believe me, I know how hard that is. There is a man whose eyes lead to the universe. Surely there's nothing greater. How can there be? He's a laser beam on which you ride through the galaxies. But there *are* other vehicles. Choose yourself.

      A psychopath friend told me that I had exerted my own will and he will not have a relationship like that as a psychopath. I smashed the bottle.

      People can't understand why I would pursue him, why I would ask him for exactly what I wanted: a conversation on real terms. OldAndWise rightly pointed out that he will deny me. He has denied me. But it's a datapoint. Something embedded so deeply; it's only datapoints from chasing your heart's desire that can change the beliefs. It's beliefs that drive feelings and behaviour.

      Keep doing what you feel like doing and the patterns *will* change. Don't thwart yourself or berate yourself. Treat yourself kindly, as you would a child who is coming to you sad about something that has happened. Those experiences you have had, the intoxication you have with him - they arise from patterns established by your brain *for your survival*. As a child, the way we attach to our caregivers is critical for our survival. We develop patterns that optimised our chances back then. But we are adults now and can survive without assistance. So we can reframe the way we attach. This is entirely possible. It is entirely possible. It may be slow going and it may mean doing things differently but this is our potential.

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    83. Kinda got a bit muddled in that last paragraph - so many things rise up in my brain.

      What I mean is that anything that reaches your cortex as a signal from yourself is valuable. It's information about *your self*. Listen to it. Even the parts your cortex *predicts* will cause trouble - it's *only* a prediction. You can frame your actions in full awareness that you will not get the result you desire and prepare for that outcome but still allow yourself the honour of running that experiment.

      What is it you want? Just pick something you have pushed down for a while because your mind knows better - and just try seeking for it. Treat it as a little experiment and see how your brain responds.

      There's no failure. None. There's not success; you never reach the top of the mountain; you only keep climbing. So enjoy every impulse your brain provides you, every sensation from your environment because your life is now! Cherish each impulse, but know there are infinite more ahead; so you can also let them go.

      This is a good short Alan Watts chillstep song that I put on repeat when I want to let go of something:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXH3YKOUeC8

      He quotes Khayyam, too:
      The Worldly Hope men set their Hearts upon
      Turns Ashes--or it prospers; and anon,
      Like Snow upon the Desert's dusty Face,
      Lighting a little hour or two--is gone.

      We're reprogramming our brains here. Keep choosing what you like, surround yourself with good mirrors.

      I mean, in all of this, I am really just explaining *my* method. Please take from it what is useful and discard what is not or what you've already covered.

      PS watching Gervais and David - oh those amazing old Seinfeld days! I haven't yet seen Curb Your Enthusiasm)

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    84. Ah, my faculties are inexorably winding down on me... I'm going to need an incredibly long sleep soon, I've been up so stupidly long! But have enjoyed it - and will be back, fresh. Many more things to say in reply.

      Did you mean you wished you knew a bit more about my actual story? If so, I'm afraid I'm hitting a block on it... I don't think I can do it in public. And don't think I can tell anything/enough about it without details which would be recognisable, which immediately makes me uncomfortable. I don't mind mentioning my friend, because I know he wouldn't give a bugger, but the other one would really give a bugger... I don't want to do it to him. Especially not since finding out that a lot of the stuff that drove me most mad is not actually so calculated, but in the nature of the perception-gap half the time, and nature of the paradigm. And so on. I have no desire to reconvene with him now; the spell has broken, he's turned into a pumpkin. But I have a respect for him now, that I didn't, and that won't let me do it! (And especially now I've called him a pumpkin). I also, kind of, don't want to go there... I can look at it from the corner of my eye, for reference, as it were, but reliving the story, through my eyes then, or even my eyes when I was last telling it, still makes me uncomfortable. I got into such a grim state, and trod all those neural pathways so heavily, I'm afraid/pretty sure I'd click back in too easily. Dear, dear...!

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    85. Oh, brilliant stuff - just saw your new three! Will read before I collapse into bed!

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    86. The major benefit of this process is that you learn how to work with your own mind and you extend it's capabilities. You shape it and rework your experiences by taking full ownership of them. You can travel back in time and change the associations you have with is behaviour, you can rewrite your responses and practice new ways.

      By learning more about what you like AWAY from him, you give yourself permission to choose things that benefit you and reconnect you with good people. Then it's less about being *wary* of others and having to "make the right decision" and more about flowing with your own being, trusting it to guide your social interactions, trusting it to appropriately participate within social groups.

      And that participation comes from a far less needy place; from a place that is more free, and the interactions flow from the wellspring of energy within you.

      I still stumble around like a landlubber on the high seas but it's cool; I'll keep learning. I never regret doing what I *feel* like.

      Please write more if you feel like it - your experiences and insights are valuable! Both Anons!

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    87. You must be in a similar timezone. It's stupidly cold tonight. I'm all rugged up in bedsocks under my doona, about to watch more of Gervais and David.

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    88. Re your 3:45am post - that's fair enough! Pumpkin, lol!

      "Especially not since finding out that a lot of the stuff that drove me most mad is not actually so calculated, but in the nature of the perception-gap half the time, and nature of the paradigm." This is kinda fascinating in itself... anyway, let's rest :)

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    89. Great stuff - thank you!

      Yes, I wasn't clear and didn't say enough. I am free of the original intoxication (did smash the bottle!). My cherries and bottles musings related to the humbling discovery that having lost my fear (of psychopaths) and having grasped so much more, I am perhaps more prone than ever to falling for their particular charm - freedom, lack of baggage, perceptivity, detachment, their parallel universe - on account of being able to allow for the stuff I used to hate. And that I'm better equipped in all sorts of ways, but the cherry and the bottle are exactly the same... So different and exactly the same! It's funny. It actually turned out fortuitously though - I fell in love with my friend first, wiping out the original one, and recently fell in love with a third (but for only a week, so it didn't stick), wiping out my friend (who'd given me a proper runaround, incidentally). So I am actually free, now, for the first time in about 8 years. And now pursuing the experiment - no cherries - with my friend - who I can't get rid of since he's most disgruntled that I am not in love with him anymore (and working hard to restore matters, but failing, because I've finally sussed the technique (with him at least). He's sure he can turn it around, though, so we'll see... (but I'm confident he can't if I don't take my eye off the ball).

      I'm so tired, I'm probably a bit incoherent! Sorry if so!

      You weren't teaching me to suck eggs, by the way - that's all fascinating stuff and much of it new, and I'll read again and digest it properly when back. Thank you!

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    90. "This is kinda fascinating in itself..."

      I know it is! Infinitely fascinating...

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    91. "You must be in a similar timezone. It's stupidly cold tonight. I'm all rugged up in bedsocks under my doona, about to watch more of Gervais and David. "

      Polar opposite - midday here - I've gone right through the night! Christ knows how long I'll sleep for...

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    92. Hope you have slept well!!

      "having grasped so much more, I am perhaps more prone than ever to falling for their particular charm - freedom, lack of baggage, perceptivity, detachment, their parallel universe - on account of being able to allow for the stuff I used to hate. "

      Makes perfect sense.


      "And that I'm better equipped in all sorts of ways, but the cherry and the bottle are exactly the same... So different and exactly the same! "

      The key is to do as you feel and trust yourself fully to that. Then, it's never a fight, you're not kinda creating rules for yourself to follow or boxing yourself in. Your mind has a great grasp of the risks and dangers and of the benefits - do what you feel in that context, and continue making space for reflection and learning.

      "If your mind dislike anything, obey it." ~ Horatio

      BUT, in the same way, if your mind likes something, go for it. Apply the advice your mind provides, but do what your heart says.

      The more I have done this, the more I trust myself fully as an organism and the greater my capacities become. I develop in accordance with my being. I become the channel for mysteries of the universe; he becomes less central but loses none of the excitement. It's simply that I am not undone by him; I am already undoing myself.

      People flow in and out of our lives. Falling in love or starting a relationship feels great and the endings bring tears. But I really think tears are change; they are the way the brain rearranges pathways. Significant changes are always emotional - feelings are good! Even ones that indicate negatives because they are messengers from neural centres within you based on things you have learned by experience. So I sit still and listen - and then choose my course.

      Understanding this, I can love more deeply and let go. My primary relationship is with myself; I am my own companion meeting my own needs. This frees up so much energy that I can then use in creating good collaborations with others.

      I think it does exacerbate the difference in a way. But that is also what I wanted. As you said earlier - I don't want to go back to the old paradigm. I was trapped there. I don't want to be a psychopath - I'm not wired that way. But I have seen the stunning paradox of the universe; the vacuousness or vastness and the startling beauty. I want that to flow through me uninhibited, like a mystic that loves all. We *are* wired that way, if only we treat The Radar as just a radar and don't identify with it.

      Our feelings and tendency to connect with others are a fabulous gift; a colouring and richness that psychopaths miss. They can change more rapidly, but we experience life more deeply.

      We are all ok.

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    93. Dear North,
      Just want to say sorry I disappeared! My energy crashed, as it still does after any bouts of enthusiastic activity (due to lingering health problem) and I've succumbed to a fluey-virus to boot, so back under the covers tempoarrily. Loved the posts, though, which will all get fully processed when the brain/energy's back!
      Lovely Alan Watts quote you undoubtedly know:
      "Life exists only at this very moment, and in this moment it is infinite and eternal. For the present moment is infinitely small; before we can measure it, it has gone, and yet it exists forever. ... You may believe yourself out of harmony with life and its eternal Now; but you cannot be, for you are life and exist Now."

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    94. I didn't know but do love it :)

      Take care and heal well. Energy does run in cycles; enjoy duvet time.

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    95. It's great, isn't it! In a nice coincidence, my ~path friend just sent a link to a blog he wanted me to look at and it was on the homepage.

      I think you asked whether I could recommend any AW books - I haven't actually read any myself. I've had a couple on the shelves for years but still unread. My thinking brain isn't working and neither is my finding books brain but I'm pretty sure one of them was called 'This is it'. I love the title of the one you've ordered.

      Thank you! -it's great when someone understands the energy cycles thing! Most people don't. I've had to live very on-off up-down the last couple of years, but it does work.

      Wondered if you'd like this clip of Sellers in 'Hoffman'. Is it at all reminiscent of the blankness for you? It's kind of semi-blank, semi-predatory, but beautifully done. He apparently hated the film, thinking it had 'showed too much' of him, and tried to buy up all the copies/negs. He successfully prevented it being screened in the UK until he'd died, 11-odd yrs later (I think). I read that he'd said (something like) 'they (the producer and director) are asking me to play what they call 'myself'.' He reportedly used to say that he 'ceased to exist' out of character and would refuse to do interviews not in character(s). Once he apparently cried in an interview, when asked who the real Peter Sellers was, and had replied "I don't know...". Interesting film, anyway... unfortunately not on YouTube anymore, except for a few clips. See what you think:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CATKP-bJsNU




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  3. Recently I met someone who said to me "You have this... This look of "danger", of "do not come closer". " and I found that very interesting.
    If I recall well, watching a House episode, Remorse, shows when a member of House team feels something off with a patient, and then they discover that this patient was a psychopath.
    I did not go further on questioning the person, but basically it was all he could say about it.
    I did not perceive that this way when those kind of reactions happened with me, but I question when this "evolutionary level warning system" in people brains happens and how it works, how it is activated.
    That time I was not being intentionally predatory or trying to actively maintain the "king of the jungle" role, but I perceive that I always maintain the "king" posture, and he might have perceived it. I was being nice and funny, as the times requested it.
    People who had that sort of reaction were people who seemed very emotional and empathetic, sensible to other peoples states, and could take on - and use - details that often people do not get.

    As for the inauthenticity, I understand M.E. writings about rather being introvert because maintaining masks with people is utterly energy-draining. My own living about that is very similar, but I tried to take a different path.
    I have always tried to get people into me, having their way of living, perceiving, thinking, feeling, and believing. It was kind of hard, because I can never have the people all of it, but only the way I perceive them. I try to act, move, talk, think, feel and believe like the person to get them into me. It may not be real them, but at least it gives me a new "personality" to have inside. The "personalities" I have inserted into me during the years are very useful for passing by situations without much effort, being less energy consuming.
    For this I have used patterns with some NLP techines to get to do it unconsciously well. It was kind of hard trying to feel the way people do - as most does not even make sense -, but I created the feelings - as I think people do, e.g.: when people find a new word for feelings and they try to feel it inside them. - and even if I do know that I do not genuinely feel it in my body, the reality created by my brain is welcomed and might have helped to use less energy and be less asynchronous.
    My shifts are into realities, into ways of perceiving the world, too and not only by masks maintaining my own world. When I need to take everything down to my own reality, I can do it easily.

    B.K.

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  4. I really love this post. The stronger the heart, the more easily it can pick up genuineness, authenticity and sincerity. I've always been good at it and sometimes boasted that despite my complete inexperience with people until 6 years ago, I never got "screwed" or really surprised when a person turned out different than people expected. Thank God because I can not only sense something is off, I then analyze what the possibilities could be and am brilliant at doing so, thank God.

    In business it always worked because you can determine all the possible motivations. Personally, and especially this year, it somewhat failed me because I was "spiritually" blind to say the least. As for the family, even my heart failed me because it could never have imagined that they could be what they are. As for "friends" I kept getting "off" signals but my bias and "spiritual" ignorance prevented me from taking the right course of action. First I have to say the "friend" was a good liar - he obviously has become comfortable with lying to the extent that he does - and would not show it so easily in his demeanor and facial expressions. When you sell out and make your peace with doing so, you're more "free" to deceive without coming across as inauthentic. Nonetheless I still noticed here and there and then realize the logic doesn't add up. I overlooked (consciously at times but more often subconsciously - the heart wants to assume good always) because he reminded me of family - I believe him about his relatives - and know there's something very beautiful about him deep down that he has suppressed. When I was sure about him, and my family (it all happened simultaneously) and I broke down, I tried to "talk sense" into me. Take the business, move on and forget them all. That was the plan but right when the moment came I felt compelled to sacrifice everything rather than lie or deceive to protect myself even though by this time I had every reason to. I knew they'd think I'm weak and stupid but it was beyond my control. I swear I felt my heart speaking to me and saying "try me, let it go, they'll see and realize and come around. If you love them let it all go."

    They didn't come around and I lost it even more. I begged them all some more but they only made worse by shunning me. By then I was ready to sell myself and make a bargain with the devil. If it were up to me I'd have been one of them by now but God, The All Merciful, The Just, literally saved me. I sometimes cry and say "I wanted to debase myself and You saved me and honored me."

    I reiterated my story to illustrate something this post helps explain perfectly: why it hurts normal people so much when a certain socio betrays them. We often know for a while that you're not authentic. We overlook it hoping you'd change in time. Instead sociopaths read "idiot," and "clueless," and "I got him by the balls," etc etc and screw us that much more. It wouldn't hurt if we were genuinely ignorant - we would learn and move on. It hurts when the heart is betrayed.

    So learn from this post sociopaths: you're not fooling as often as you think you are. Good people are letting you get away with it because their integrity and honor does not allow them to do to you what you so readily do to them.

    God is the Greatest.

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    1. I should add: I think it's very much possible that sociopaths also think we're like them but up to something they can't figure out. This is annoying to say the least but again it hurts when the socio is someone you care about and has no reason to mistrust you. Mostly I think they know better - they may just lie to themselves and say "he's no better so it's okay what I did and do." Delusion upon delusion. It's going to get worse so save yourselves while you can. God is the most Merciful.

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    2. "I should add: I think it's very much possible that sociopaths also think we're like them but up to something they can't figure out. This is annoying to say the least but again it hurts when the socio is someone you care about and has no reason to mistrust you."

      I agree with this, and can relate to your experience.

      "Mostly I think they know better - they may just lie to themselves and say "he's no better so it's okay what I did and do." Delusion upon delusion."

      Not so sure about this - I think it's Not Quite Like that.

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  5. None of this is news to people of the heart. BTW I'm only now - recently recovering my full capacity. I was far, far more warm-hearted than most people I know but compared to REAL people I was way off.

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  6. A sociopathic relative who also worked with me for 4 years said to me a few months back: you're so good at getting people to do what you want. He obviously meant "I'm good at manipulating people so successfully." I responded: I don't manipulate, I just speak bluntly and honestly and people can pick it up and they respond. It didn't seem to help him but I say so because it adds to this post. Just how you can pick up and sense something is "off" when people are being disingenuous, the reverse works also. People can sense that a person is being truthful and frank, even if what they say may be wrong (a person can be 100% honest but be wrong...).

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    1. jonaid ,

      Those last posts of yours speak the truth for me. I feel it inside me almost identical with you. The heart always KNOWS. And what hurts is not only the betrayal from the sociopath or any other deadbeat but also the fact that we refused to listen to our heart while she screamed the thruth. Simply becouse we did not WANT to accept that such fakery may exist from someone we deeply trusted. This, according to a sociopath is naivity or stupidity becouse to them it is alien to operate from the heart. Me, i would never trade my heart and my authenticity for anything in the world. The fulfillment and the inner joy that i derive by being authentic and openhearted by far outweights the hurt that anybody sociopathic or not can temporarily inflict upon me. Nobody can damage my core when i am being authentic , meaning my brain , my heart and my deeds are in sync. I just take my time whenever i am in the receiving end of a lousy behaviour and i bounch back wiser and stronger. I have determined never to lose my spirit just becouse some people, sociopathic or not believe that by lying and manipulating other people they are smarter or superior. This is just plain deception and sooner or later the most of them get revealed.

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    2. "Nobody can damage my core when i am being authentic , meaning my brain , my heart and my deeds are in sync."

      This congruence is my healing road too.

      "I have determined never to lose my spirit just becouse some people, sociopathic or not believe that by lying and manipulating other people they are smarter or superior. This is just plain deception and sooner or later the most of them get revealed. "

      It was so important to recognise that his game does not have to be my game. As Leonard Cohen puts it "I've seen your flag on the marble arch, but love is not a victory march..."

      Having emotions is not weakness. Our tendency to form social bonds is collective strength; the collective strength of the species. We are part of that and it's a beautiful thing. Simon Sinek's Why Leaders Eat Last was very helpful for me, he explains wonderfully how our biological systems wire us for collaboration. It's natural and I am glad of my own emotions. That video reignited a spark in me that brought me from isolation back to humanity.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReRcHdeUG9Y

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    3. Anonymous 1:19 pm

      Happy to find more healthy people here. My best wishes to you. Only suggestion I have is to say that remember God and ask Him for help & answers. That's if you don't aleady...

      Thanks.

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  7. TRANSLATION
    “I love you” means “You give me a rush at this moment.”
    “You love me” translates as “you forgo your needs to bend to my will.”
    “Trust me” means “What a sucker!”
    “You’re the woman of my life,” translates into “You’re one of a long, indefinite sequence of women that’s also simultaneous” (Psychopaths have their own version of math as well).
    “Mutual fidelity” means “you need to be faithful to me while I cheat on you.”
    “Betrayal” means “You dared disapprove of something I did” or “You disobeyed me in some respect.”
    “Mutual commitment” translates into “You need to revolve everything in your life only around me while I do exactly what I want.”
    “Honesty” means “My truth,” or “Saying whatever gets me what I want at the moment.”
    “I miss you” means “I miss the function you played in my life because I’m a little bored right now.” “What my Baby wants, my Baby gets” means “I’ll give you attention, flattery and gifts only until I hook you emotionally and gain your trust. Afterwards, Mazeltov Baby! You’re on your own.”
    “I cheat because my wife/girlfriend doesn’t satisfy me” means “…and neither will you, in a few months, at most.”
    “We belong together” means “I own you completely while I remain free.”
    “If anything happens between us, it won’t be because of me” means “Nothing’s ever my fault. If I do something harmful, it’s because you (and others) weren’t good enough for me.”

    I came across this, and would you consider this true?


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    1. No doubt many people use language is such a twisted way as you've written. That does not mean that now that is what these terms actually mean. Those with diseased minds & hearts think it does and fool some others into believing them - some easily and others by subtle manipulation or abuse. So no, it's not true but many people do say it.

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    2. I loved this. Thought it was very funny (and true - as far I can tell, that is)

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    3. I remember reading it. It made sense to me.

      I think he called his ex-lovers "wives" and was constantly projecting so his code ran like this:

      "My ex-wife wanted a threesome" = The game with my last lover was me trying to get her in a threesome (I shuddered to think what he was saying about me with the next one. Dirty old man.)

      "My ex-wife is a sex-addict" = One of my ex-lovers said I was a sex-addict.

      "My wife had a tantrum" = I lost my temper at my wife.

      "My son has my wife's personality" = My son is a psychopath like me.

      "My wife beat me" = I beat my wife.

      A wife is for Washing, Ironing, Fucking Etc = he really meant that.

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    4. Now imagine what happens when you start talking like this. Eventually you'll be incapable of knowing what's actually true and what's not becuase you yourself lie all the time. If I said "my friend stole my wallet" and I meant "my friend stole my wallet" you'd never know what I mean. You'd think I stole his wallet and you'd be wrong and if I corrected you you'd think I'm lying.

      This is the delusion my family & "friend" are in also.

      In the name of God, The All-Merciful, The Compassionate.

      "Did I not charge you, O ye sons of Adam, that ye worship not the devil - Lo! he is your open foe! -

      But that ye worship Me? That was the right path.

      Yet he hath led astray of you a great multitude. Had ye then no sense?"

      Qur'an 36:60-62

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    5. North-Your socio actually said "a wife is for washing, ironing, fucking"??? OMG!!!

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    6. Yeah, he did, and he totally got away with it because another colleague came back with "love stands for Legs Open Very Easily." Brilliant, the pair of them. That second guy was a very interesting character in my life, a kindred spirit almost.

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    7. Jonaid, could sociopaths get themselves to believe their lies? Or are they too smart for that?

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    8. Gerard I'm not 100% sure but this is what I'm pretty sure about:

      Firstly, let remember how I distinguish between a "sociopath" and a "psychopath." A psychopath is aware of the "ultimate scheme" - they're not confused as to how the world works, what's truly moral and what's not, and they engage in their deception & evil willfully for their own ends only. A sociopath is someone going down the road to psychopathy and for a host of different reasons: could be because they've been raised as such, or abused into the mindset, or genuinely lost in a world of lies & selfishness and feel that's the only way to go about OR they may just be genuinely into it - "amateur" psychos.

      Now with regards to your query: it would depend on where they fall on the spectrum and what their motivations are. I suspect those who've been raised as sociopaths or abused into it, they probably do believe their own lies (not all but many). The psychopaths, I suspect, does not believe most of his own lies but he doesn't care to know the actual truth: all that matters is what works and does the job for him. The truth is "subjective" - whatever is beneficial for me is truth and all else is folly. Of course reality - Truth - doesn't bend to their mindset.

      Regardless of whether it's a sociopath, psychopath, the devil himself - and regardless of intelligence - they ALL eventually lose tough with reality. There comes a point where you're 100% deluded and confused and that's when the really evil behavior manifests itself. You're a pawn of "the master" then.

      Hope that helps.

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    9. My own personal experience is bare minimal - thank God - but it if it helps:

      A few months ago I remember one day when I was deep in depression and plagued by mood swings I thought: "hey, who cares what the truth is, what's right and what's wrong? the past can't be undone but you can re-write your own story and who's going to know? Think whatever you want and if you want it to be real, it will be real. Tell people what you want and they'll believe you - if they don't, who cares it wasn't true anyway. This is how the world works: if you want to be miserable keep chasing love & honesty, if you want to be what you truly are and deserve (everything...), then own reality" etc etc

      Believe me or not I swear to God, I swear on my mother's life (and I love no one more than her) that looking back I wish I'd have jumped off a bridge instead of going down that road. Of course I didn't have to - God saved me and I cannot possibly be thankful enough even if I spent the rest of my life in a cave doing nothing but prostrating and praying.

      With God is liberty, serenity and true wisdom. Trust me you'll find such peace, understanding and motivation that for the first few weeks or months you won't believe what's undeniable (but feel it nonetheless). You'll think it's "too good to be true."

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    10. North-Does your socio ex know that the year is 2016? He seems to be stuck in a time warp that ended long, long ago!!!

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    11. Haha, well he gets away with it. He's mid 50s, his wife 20 years younger.

      I recall that I have heard the WIFE acronym previously from the man who delivered my firewood. That dude was certainly a psychopath. We used to chat a bit while we put the firewood away - I always got my wood from him because the quality was good and the price low, and he drove his truck right up to my woodshed which helped. Then he started stalking me on Facebook. So the next time around, my husband helped with the firewood and the guy was throwing the logs at me. He struck me twice on the legs, right in front of my husband. He also faced court for deliberately ramming a BMW with his truck. Needless to say, no more firewood from him.

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    12. North-What did your husband do, when that guy started stalking you on FB and throwing logs at you??? DEFINITELY NO MORE FIREWOOD FROM HIM!!!

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    13. Husband did nothing.

      The firewood guy had told me earlier he'd done such things to other people. Got me right on the shins.

      We're all so interesting.

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  8. And Gérard I'm not saying you do this I know you just asked. I forget I'm in a socio blog and people just look to find anything to caricature.

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  9. Thanks for your insight. Intriguing actually; givex me something to ponder.

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  10. It seems mysterious and sophisticated but the observation of body language, eye contact and micro-expressions etc for clues to someones thinking is the worst way to try and catch someone being deceptive and is more akin to astrology then any science. It just doesn't work at all in practice. The best way is through asking the right questions in the right ways which is nearly almost always 100% effective.

    See this article: Best and worse ways to catch a liar

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    1. Asking the right questions in the right ways works BECAUSE it's likely to lead the person answering to give away some signs via facial expressions, body language, stress (i.e. chewing tongue or vomiting - this I've witnessed personally).

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    2. What it leads to is their story falling apart which may or may not be accompanied by obvious physical signs. Some people may even grow more relaxed and confident as their story falls apart especially if they don't get any feedback on it. It is the words themselves that begin to not make sense and show contradiction that is the proof of deception.

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  11. Of course contradictions are key to determining if its deception but the point is body language plays a key role. Most people put together a story that can be sold but few can lie so comfortably, without any scruples. These are the devils & their closest minions. Now that I'm aware, I can - God-willing - pick up on this relatively easily as well, with or without body language.

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    1. BTW the reverse is possible also: sometimes the body language is off but the story is actually true and makes sense. This is less likely but I know it happens. I used to do it. I would sometimes get nervous telling the truth because I would feel the truth is something hard to believe and would sound "conveniently good" for myself. I guess it's some weird, extreme form of humility - not healthy. It's also why I'd sometimes overlook the socios I knew - I would think "maybe it's the same thing you did."

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    2. But there is no consistent body language of deception. The whole field has been found utterly unreliable. So anyone using it in a key role is an idiot. One person may deceive and it may be accompanied with a certain behavior or tick or expression, and another may tell the truth with the same behavior. Yes it can sometimes be helpful in speeding up where to probe further as part of a series of questions, and it is something to notice, but it is the questions and answers that lead to uncovering deception through uncovering inconsistensies and contradictions regardless of a persons behavior - and no one can evade that. Not even someone with a true poker face or someone with great control over their emotions and nervous system. If you say one thing and then say another thing and start to do it more and more under simple directed open questioning, then you are lying. If you scratch your head, dart your eyes or get nervous you are simply displaying a range of human behavior. Sometimes a person may be nervous because they are lying. But sometimes not. The tell is in the story, not the behavior.

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    3. I agree with Aspie.:)

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  12. "So anyone using it in a key role is an idiot. One person may deceive and it may be accompanied with a certain behavior or tick or expression, and another may tell the truth with the same behavior."

    I'm happily an idiot for doing something I know works even though it's "utterly unreliable" according to some ignorant "expert" studying the heart without any idea what true emotional intelligence is. The heart can pick up things with or without body language. Even the TONE gives itself away. A 100% sincere tone is impossible to replicate even by a heartless psychopath / devil. They can come close but they can't quite do it. You can ignore it - you must - but people like me will always know it when we see it.

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  13. PS Aspie-What do you think Jonaid is all about?

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  14. PS Aspie-You should write a book, to teach people how to detect deception.:)

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  15. PSS-Do "Aspies" and psychopaths/sociopaths get along well? From what little I understand from this blog, "Aspies" get psychopaths/sociopaths. Is that a good thing, and you get along? Or, is that a bad thing, since you "have their number"?

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    1. I became close friends once with a woman with Asperger's. She's one of the rare individuals I've choosen to be completely open with about my sociopathy, and she accepted every aspect of it with open arms. In general I don't like aspies any more than I like normal people, I treat them no differently. Some, like my aspie friend, just seem like they're worth tolerating being around more for the sake of enjoying their company and not just having that relationship because they're a useful tool for me to exploit. How often do I meet people who choose to not believe in previously established stereotypes and stigmas about sociopathy and choose to decide for themselves how "good" of a person I am? I think she was willing to do so because her own mental health, her Asperger's, has its own stereotypes and social stigma that may have caused others in the past to mistreat her so in a way I think for her it is self harmful in a way to hold any stereotype of a mental health disorder, sociopathy, against me. We're both human beings with states of existence with different perceptions of reality drawn from our mentalities.

      ESTP Sociopath

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    2. ESTP-Thank you for your reply.:) I am glad your friend with Asperger's didn't judge you.:) You are correct-we are all human beings, first and foremost.:) We all have different states of existence with different perceptions of reality drawn from our own mentalities...

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    3. Before I learned facts about psychopathy/sociopathy I thought I was probably an Aspie, nowadays I still think it's possible I am, tho with atypical symptoms in terms of empathy.

      One of my best childhood friends likely had Asperger's. We understood each other quite well - in a completely different manner 'normal' people do.

      One ex of mine supposedly was an Aspie. Should have known much earlier - could have changed a lot.
      We got along very nicely, in the beginning. If I wouldn't have been such an asshole we could still be friends today.

      What I found weird was, he actually got me. He was perfectly capable of understanding what I was doing and why. He just didn't had the words to communicate it. I still have a lot of respect for what he did - even though it didn't (couldn't) work.

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    4. NM-Thanks for your reply.:) It's nice being understood, isn't it? I have been with a psychopath/sociopath for a long time now, and understand, as well.:) I am a normal/empath, although Jonaid calls me a psychopath/sociopath/aspie, etc. As I was saying to North and another Anon above-I believe we are more "hybrids".:)

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    5. PS ESTP and NM-I'd love to see the two of you, take Jonaid on.:) That would be something to see!!!

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    6. Don't listen to the cheerleaders egging you on. Why don't they "take Jonaid on" themselves? Or are they admitting they're too stupid to do it? If so, be plain and we'll know your intentions.

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    7. Jonaid-We are all too smart, to waste our time with you. The only reason I made that comment to ESTP and NM, is because it would be highly entertaining...

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    8. Of course there are "hybrids." Most people are actually hybrids they just happen to be - for now - towards the "empath" end of the spectrum. I guess you guys are hybrids leaning towards the sociopathic end. The point is it's not fixed - it moves along and without God you're steadily going to head towards the wrong end, whether you want to or not.

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  16. PSSS-I apologize-whenever I have asked questions, I have directed them to "all psychopaths/sociopaths", and didn't think to list "aspies". I suppose the list would be never ending, if I attempted to include everyone...

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  17. ESTP you like the aspie because she's ignorant and makes you feel okay with your delusional mindset. We all know psychos love to have their delusions reinforced.

    Nihilistic: you apparently don't know what a real friendship is. If you were an asshole, there's an easy way to make up for that: you apologize and try to make sure you never do that again. Only psychopathic minions are turned off by actual courage (i.e. owning up).

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  18. And don't fear the "dogs" or "the master." I swear to you if you don't fear them and invoke God they can't do a damn thing to you. These two small chapters of the Qur'an have worked for a close relative - recently they were plagued by almost daily episodes of "sleep paralysis." Me personally I never had such problems until recently but even then I never experienced anything more than a few seconds of what seemed to be "near paralysis." I knew what was happening - the timing & context made sense - and my invoking God and reciting the verses below has kept me trouble free. Besides, why would you fear something that is envious of YOU and only manifests itself when it knows it has got you by the balls? Don't fear Freddy and he won't bother you.

    I seek refuge in God against Satan the accursed.
    In the name of God, The All-Merciful, The Compassionate.

    "Say: I seek refuge in the Lord of the Daybreak
    From the evil of that which He created;
    From the evil of the darkness when it is intense,
    And from the evil of malignant witchcraft,
    And from the evil of the envier when he envieth."

    Qur'an Chapter 113: The Daybreak

    I seek refuge in God against Satan the accursed.
    In the name of God, The All-Merciful, The Compassionate.

    "Say: I seek refuge in the Lord of mankind,
    The King of mankind,
    The god of mankind,
    From the evil of the sneaking whisperer,
    Who whispereth in the hearts of mankind,
    Of the jinn and of mankind."

    Qur'an Chapter 114: Mankind

    NOTE: It doesn't matter if you're a psychopath. It's never too late to return to The Merciful. You'll be even more happier than normal people because you've been in the pit all along and just came out.

    Peace.

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    1. It's never too late to return to God while you're alive. If you die in the wrong camp - well you know what He says is going to be your fate.

      Delete
  19. In the beginning, like anyone else, they try to get you back in (whether you were a member or a potential member) so they will try. You just have to trust in God and know that they can't do anything - nothing - except what He allows.

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  20. I refuse to live in and with a culture and mindset of fear. Your God is nothing more than a false idol to me, a teddy bear for the child afraid of the dark. My own self image, confidence, and esteem is independent of external emotional crutches.
    If you believe following God is your path to enrichment and fulfillment, the teddy bear you need to hold onto, that's fine. It's not for me though.

    ESTP Sociopath

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    1. You're utterly mistaken (as I was too) if you think it's a "culture and mindset of fear." It's quite the opposite. I don't live in that culture or mindset. It's okay though - when (God-willing) you come around, you'll be ecstatic because prior to doing so you thought it was the worst possible thing for you. Remember God has no culture - only thing He demands is truth and good conduct. What you see as "Islam" is mostly cultural manifestations of the religion. Remember "religion" is nothing more than a means to God and "Islam" (primarily the Qur'an) is the purest, least corrupted way to Him.

      Just avoid the "dogs" and invoke God in whatever way you want. Just the way you are uncomfortable with "teddy bears" so is everyone else. You'd be a fool to think people actually cling to teddy for comfort.

      Good luck.

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    2. In the name of God, The All-Merciful, The Compassionate.

      "When We show favour unto man, he withdraweth and turneth aside, but when ill toucheth him then he aboundeth in prayer.

      Bethink you: If it is from God and ye reject it - Who is further astray than one who is at open feud (with God)?

      We shall show them Our portents on the horizons and within themselves until it will be manifest unto them that it is the Truth. Doth not thy Lord suffice, since He is Witness over all things?"

      Qur'an 41:51-53


      I swear I can so relate to these three verses. The third verses describes my daily experience over the past 3 months in particular but extending far back now that I think about it.

      Peace.

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    3. I don't hate God, I even admire him. To think that a intangible entity, a mere thought within the human mind, could invoke so much fear in people so they would submit to his will and be manipulated into committing "moralistic" deeds in his name. More people have died for the sake of moralistic reasons, for God, than for sociopathic ones. If I could grasp that kind of power that God has over people it would be absolutely delicious.

      ESTP Sociopath

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    4. I 100% get what you mean and where you're coming from (if it's sincere). I swear to God I do. I also swear to God you're 100% wrong as I was. That's why it's so beautiful & ecstatic. When you find out HOW & WHY you were so wrong and yet God has been merciful and saved you, and you finally understand why what seems to be "moralistic deeds" that are "forced" is actually what's best for you. The feeling is like finding out that XYZ - someone you hated or mistrusted so much and thought was an evil demon who ruined your life - was actually doing all that to save you from something worse that you didn't know about. I know you won't understand or believe me reading this but I swear if you're sincere and you Call to God, He will respond and you'll cry tears of joy one day thinking exactly what I wrote here. I'm not the first to say or do this - millions, if not billions, have already experienced this. I know, as an former atheist, that their stories were nothing more than delusional mindset to me until I experienced myself. No one I know was more cynical of God & religion than I was and here I am speaking about Him as if I'm his agent.

      God is the Greatest.

      Delete
  21. A child sits in bed with his blankets pulled in close, eyes wide from fear of the darkness of his room. Out from the shadows waddles forward God on his little teddy bear legs, beckoning the child towards him. "Come child, embrace me, I will keep you safe from the darkness you are so afraid of." The child, hypnotized by God's innocent looking button eyes and sweetly stitched mouth, drops his hold on his blankets and steps out of bed and walks forward to pick up the teddy bear. "Good child," says God as his face contorts and twists into a new form, his button eyes transforming into bottomless black voids and his stiched on mouth into a maw filled with many sharp yellowed teeth and a flickering snake tongue. "KILL THE NON-BELIEVERS, CHILD. VANQUISH THEM IN MY NAME AND YOU WILL FOREVER BE SAFE FROM WHAT YOU FEAR." The child left his room with the teddy bear clutched close to him, it's snake like tongue flickering in and out od its toothy maw caressing the child's soft cheek. He entered the kitchen and searched the drawers for a large knife. "NOW, KILL THEM. THEY HURT YOU, THE NON-BELIEVERS. PUNISH THEM FOR THEIR SINS." The child crept into his parent's bedroom and stood before their sleeping forms, knife poised to strike again, and again, and again...

    ESTP Sociopath

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    Replies
    1. This is a good example of a "dog" doing it's trick to serve "it's master." If you believe it, you've taken the bait. Don't do that to yourself you're smarter than that. Trust me once - just try me. God doesn't "show up" like that. No one can see Him and He does not converse with you. He shows signs and when they become too many to be coincidental, you start to take Him seriously. The more you "give Him a shot" the more He comes towards you. You feel a little scared (fear of being wrong because it's so beautiful to think it's true) and as soon something trivial happens you panic. Then He comes back with another sign and you're ecstatic again. This happens again and again but each interval is longer and each time your "faith" gets stronger and stronger. Eventually you're just in bliss knowing that what you thought was never possible and too good to be true is ACTUALLY true.

      ESTP recite the verses I posted. Trust me please.

      Delete
    2. Why do you think he's "the master"? WHY? Because he's so good at confusing you into thinking God is something like HIM and that he is actually the real god. He's doing what you should expect him to do: FOOL YOU into thinking whatever he needs you to think so that you turn away from the truth. At best he turns you into a minion and if not, at least he's gotten you away from God. Think.

      Delete
    3. And BTW you now know why sometimes "good" and "pious" people end up committing atrocities in the name of God / religion. You've outlined it yourself. They're fooled into believing it because they were weak & stupid. Don't be weak & stupid. You're not.

      Delete
    4. Before I became I full on atheist I gave up on God but hated Him anyway. We all know how it is "I don't believe in God" but really you're just disheartened because of all the hell you've gone through. Why would He do this to me if He loves me? What kind of a "loving" and "All powerful" God would do this? Etc etc (and I'm not even mentioning the "rational" arguments for / against His existence).

      It ALL makes sense when He finally answers. I'm at the point where I sometimes think "I wish I had the strength to last longer before God saved me." I swear that's no joke.

      Delete
    5. I hope you're not the same guy who calls me his "friend." My heart shook thinking he's going thru - or has gone thru - something like this. I can help but not if you don't want it. You know you can trust me.

      Delete
    6. God helped me help my relative overcome something very similar. Almost daily episodes of similar visits (although they never gave me such explicit details). At one point they almost "gave up" but now they're happy and perfectly fine.

      Delete
    7. Jonaid-I don't think psychopaths/sociopaths believe Satan is their "Master". I think they believe, they are their own "Master". I don't like that you referred to ESTP as a "dog", and I don't like the way you refer to many people here...

      Delete
    8. It's always darkest before the dawn!

      I'll stop bombarding now. Peace.

      Delete
    9. Jonaid-I would ask you to "cease and desist", but many people here have been doing that for quite some time, to no avail. So, I think I will go back to ignoring you...

      Delete
    10. Anonymous 8:44

      Shut up and stop caricaturing what I said. I did not call him a dog nor did I say his master is Satan. Do not repeat your BS right now. I mean it don't do it again this is the worst time for you to pull your disgusting trick.

      Delete
    11. Has anyone figured out, what is wrong with Jonaid???

      Delete
    12. Jonaid-Do not tell me to shut up. I am not "pulling any disgusting tricks"...

      Delete
    13. You don't get it, I delight in the idea and concept of God. I admire his power and wish I could emulate it in some way, to have that kind of power within me. The mere thought of him is like an eldritch abomination creeping in the back of my mind, and I find him and his incomprehensible-ness to be indescribably beautiful and terrible. That's where he'll stay put though, because I'd rather seek to have his kind of power all to myself then have it gifted to me.

      ESTP Sociopath

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    14. I do get it I just don't want to think you really mean what you're saying. You're way in over your head. It's not worth where it'll make you end up. You can croak because a single vein pops and you're dreaming about power? Divine power no less...how pathetic can you get?

      Don't set yourself up to be an incredibly stupid minion. I have nothing else to say to you.

      Delete
    15. "That, your thought which ye did think about your Lord, hath ruined you; and ye find yourselves (this day) among the lost."

      Qur'an 41:23

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    16. I suppose you're entitled to your own opinion, but that doesn't mean I have to acknowledge it as the truth or accept it, and the same goes for you too. As it's been said before, "thoughts are just thoughts, and I don't fear them because they're not representative of reality". I entertain a lot of ideas, but that really doesn't mean I act upon them. For some I do.

      ESTP Sociopath

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    17. Jonaid, no worries - it wasn't me who wrote this story. I apologize for my absence, my life got quite busy since yesterday. A good friend is in dire need of help.
      I hope to be back soon.

      ESTP, funny story, can't stop laughing xD

      Delete
    18. You're welcome, I'm glad I entertained. I was smoking some really good weed while writing that; Haze, a sativa strain. Good stuff. I think it might've fed my imagination quite well for some creative writing.

      ESTP Sociopath

      Delete
  22. “Fear is not real. The only place that fear can exist is in our thoughts of the future. It is a product of our imagination, causing us to fear things that do not at present and may not ever exist. That is near insanity. Do not misunderstand me danger is very real but fear is a choice."

    http://youtu.be/K-09ZN86huI

    ESTP Sociopath

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "We are all telling ourselves a story"

      Yes.

      Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.

      All of that is true. But I again challenge the notion you have to be strong to overcome anything. It's a matter of letting things flow. Don't grab fear, or anything else. Let it flow and use the energy it gives you.

      Greg Plitt kinda says it: that energy transforms into something very positive; it shows you who you want to be, where you want to be. I really challenge that it's a matter of defeating fear - that's fighting yourself. Use all your impulses, all of them, to become the person you want to be and create the work of art you dream of in your life.

      Delete
    2. ESTP-Your post on fear is absolutely correct-thank you, for that contribution.:)

      Delete
    3. It's actually people who believe in fear that live relatively fearless lives. You all know you're lying to yourselves and to the people here. If you prefer to be "free" by being a pawn - knowingly or in ignorance - of someone who hates & envies you, well I guess it's your right.

      It's funny they keep posting about smoking weed as if that's better than not smoking weed. I've smoked for many years and have not for the past 3 months - no desire whatsoever. That's the default and that's liberation.

      Peace.

      Delete
    4. ESTP / NM

      The story may have been changed or twister but it's not made up. Millions of people experience similar things. I told you don't be afraid of the boogie man and he'll take a hike. The only One you should fear is God. That's rational - to fear the Creator, not His creation.

      Peace.

      Delete
    5. Lol @ North "let the energy flow." You and your kind would love nothing more.

      Delete
    6. Just saying "I seek refuge in God against Satan the accursed" is often enough. I'm saying it openly without hiding my ID. Don't fall for the tricks - they're nothing more than scare tactics.

      Delete
    7. 'That's rational - to fear the Creator, not His creation."

      No, it is irrational to be afraid of a mere thought, something intangible and nonexistent. Why do you choose to be afraid of yourself, Jonaid? I'm curious.

      ESTP Sociopath

      Delete
    8. Jonaid, stop inflicting your hatred on me. I am not the cause.

      Peace.

      Delete
    9. aspie is correct:

      "What it leads to is their story falling apart which may or may not be accompanied by obvious physical signs. Some people may even grow more relaxed and confident as their story falls apart especially if they don't get any feedback on it. It is the words themselves that begin to not make sense and show contradiction that is the proof of deception."

      Here's the feedback:
      Your words and actions are incongruent. Your actions damage. You violate requests.

      It's not accepted.

      So tell us - what is your objective here?

      Delete
    10. In the name of God, The All-Merciful, The Compassionate.

      "Among mankind is he who disputeth concerning God without knowledge, and followeth each froward devil;

      For him it is decreed that whoso taketh him for friend, he verily will mislead him and will guide him to the punishment of the Flame.

      O mankind! if ye are in doubt concerning the Resurrection, then lo! We have created you from dust, then from a drop of seed, then from a clot, then from a little lump of flesh shapely and shapeless, that We may make (it) clear for you. And We cause what We will to remain in the wombs for an appointed time, and afterward We bring you forth as infants, then (give you growth) that ye attain your full strength. And among you there is he who dieth (young), and among you there is he who is brought back to the most abject time of life, so that, after knowledge, he knoweth naught. And thou seest the earth barren, but when We send down water thereon, it doth thrill and swell and put forth every lovely kind (of growth)."

      Qur'an 22:3-5

      Incidentally verse 5 gives some rather striking details on embryonic development. I'm not into the whole "science in scripture" development because Scripture speaks about the whole picture when we only see part of it and our vision changes with time. Nonetheless, this one is worth noting. Here is a lecture by Keith L. Moore on this verse and others like it (I loved his answer on why he's not a Muslim):

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upa4BSH7ua4

      Delete
  23. To Jonaid and others like him, who would like to take over the world, who would like to make the rest of us submit, who hate freedom and love only your death-obsessed religion:
    We are not afraid of you.
    We will fight you with everything we've got and we will defeat you.
    You will not prevail.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. We've seen on this blog a example of the most repeated sin in the Qur'an called "Kufar." It is often mistranslated as "disbelievers" when "covering up the truth" is more accurate. A disbeliever could be anyone who doesn't believe in God - knowingly ("Kafir") or in ignorance (not guilty).

      Psycho strategy: clog the place and keep denying the obvious so any sincere readers will think "They must know something that's why they keep denying it." You haven't a clue that your tactics backfire, all the time. That's because after lying so much they lose their own minds and start believing their own BS.

      Delete
    2. What these idiots don't realize is that if they manage to confuse genuine people those people are NOT held accountable by God if they sincerely bought into it. Those who deliberately mislead and lie, however, and don't recant - they'll regret it big time.

      Delete
    3. Nihilistic Mind asked you to demonstrate your understanding of the passages you post. You claim your God is merciful, great and compassionate - show us this.

      Instead, you call us dogs, Devils, minions, liars, idiots. From the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks - your mouth is vomiting bloodthirsty vitriol and hatred.

      You are behaving incongruently. Real mercy sees the person in front of them and responds. Real compassion stands alongside the other person while they traverse their own landscape. Real honesty speaks the truth in love.

      I offer you peace and ask again that you stop insulting others. Stop insulting. Think of who you want to be: merciful, compassionate, honest and be that. You are responsible for your own self - draw boundaries but do not injure.

      Immerse yourself in goodness and you will reflect goodness. Charlie Chaplin is a wonderful example.

      "I’m sorry, but I don’t want to be an emperor. That’s not my business. I don’t want to rule or conquer anyone. I should like to help everyone - if possible - Jew, Gentile - black man - white. We all want to help one another. Human beings are like that. We want to live by each other’s happiness - not by each other’s misery. We don’t want to hate and despise one another. In this world there is room for everyone. And the good earth is rich and can provide for everyone. The way of life can be free and beautiful, but we have lost the way.

      Greed has poisoned men’s souls, has barricaded the world with hate, has goose-stepped us into misery and bloodshed. We have developed speed, but we have shut ourselves in. Machinery that gives abundance has left us in want. Our knowledge has made us cynical. Our cleverness, hard and unkind. We think too much and feel too little. More than machinery we need humanity. More than cleverness we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost...."

      Enough bloodshed.

      Delete
    4. Recant? Is this the Spanish Inquisition?

      Delete
  24. North, you are wasting your breath. Jonaid and others like him will not stop until their barbaric sharia is the law of the land and women like us are forced to wear burquas.
    What do you expect from someone whose reveres a child-rapist "prophet"?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The chain of causality isn't so decipherable - but I feel like it. I want to share that vision of life as a wonderful adventure, vast and rich. Nothing he does will suppress that in me; rather he liberates it as I explore my own natural reactions to him.

      Delete
  25. I am seeing a lot of "bait and switch" tactics from Jonaid. He engages people, and when they take the bait, he attacks. When I suggest we all ignore him, he freaks out. Let's all ignore him, and see what happens!!!

    ReplyDelete
  26. If you ignore someone long enough, eventually they will go away.:) It'll be a fun experiment!!!

    ReplyDelete
  27. We can still communicate with each other.:) We can choose to ignore Jonaid, no matter how tempting.:)

    ReplyDelete
  28. Eventually, he'll give up, and find another blog.:)

    ReplyDelete

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