Sunday, November 1, 2015

Early childhood intervention -- a missed opportunity

From a reader:

I talked with my friend - I've written you about him before - Professor Psychopath. He's from a family with high-functioning psychopaths on both sides. His dad is/was a compulsive gambler, lives off various women, delights in knocking people out in street fights, etc. The mom had similar men in her family - they were literally royals (in their home country). PP is a professor with a lot of bad habits - things like driving down the street the wrong way for thrills. He's as Machiavellian/cold-hearted as they come.

He shared the following with me: when he was young, a teacher noticed he was really shy and had some issues suggesting he might need some help. They did a full battery of tests. The parents kept the information from the kids because - they said - they didn't want the kids to feel bad/good depending on their IQ ranking - all of the kids had genius IQs. These days two of the kids have PhDs in STEM and the other one was a successful entrepreneur. The parents didn't tell them that they'd done general psych tests, so they thought they were just IQ tests.

So today the dad gave him his scores from the psych tests. All he said was something about the IQ, and was proud (as if he had anything personally to do with having an IQ, passing it, on, LOL). Our guy learned today (30 years after the fact) that they'd done personality tests too.

He was surprised to see that they'd had him pegged when he was still a child. They figured that he was very smart, but with lots of problems relating to others, including social anxiety, OCD and aggression. They noticed all things that have made his life (and those in his family) difficult: OCD, social anxiety and lousy impulse control. They noted he had a great ability to strategize and scheme, but little ability to complete things. Total desire/inability to do assigned tasks - he wouldn't follow orders . He did work on tasks that he found interesting.

They didn't label him a "psychopath" or "sociopath", but they did say that given his body/age, they were recommending that he get some psychological treatment and learn to emotionally connect with others and control his anger, lest he become a bully in a few years (which he did). The OCD and social anxiety eventually became debilitating, at which point - decades later - he got treatment. After he got the treatment for anxiety he went on a tear, traveling around the world seducing women. A bit like Walter White (Breaking Bad) the high levels of social-anxiety (manifesting as emotions like fear, shame, envy) kept him in check. Once that lessened  his lack of a conscience, need for stimulation and antisocial bent led to him doing a lot of extreme things.

When he looked at the results, he felt disappointed. The teachers had tried to help. And nothing came of it. He wonders what might have happened if they'd intervened earlier.

He figures his narcissistic dad was too involved in his gambling habit to care. He's so self-absorbed he probably didn't read the report much, and probably ignored the negative stuff. The mom had her head way up her ass - but had she said anything about the kid needing help, the dad would have shut that down - if only because he needed to run the show. He didn't to be the guy with the screwup kid.  It wasn't hard at all for PP to put himself in his dad's shoes (they are VERY similar) and realize how his dad would have thought/felt about the report: "hey, MY kid is super smart. Of course he is. Chip off the old block." And that was it. He didn't act on the information that he could act on.

So PP wasn't too resentful about his dad. He said he had compassion for him; the dad really couldn't have done otherwise. I thought about my own family - very similar situation and way of relating to it - which is why he'd told me. FWIW, my dad only raised me because the government paid him to do it. He took custody of me weeks after it became possible to get paid to raise me due to my mother killing herself. I had to move out of the house as soon as the government checks stopped coming. He spent the money on his hobbies. When my extended family told me about my dad's behavior and motivations, it all made sense. I wasn't particularly bothered with him; what else was he going to do? The most irritating thing for me was that he couldn't be honest about his motivations.

I gave some thought to the phenomenon of diagnosing kids and the families dropping the ball. I know a family with Aspergery/ADD kids. I helped one of them (in his 50s) to do basic tasks that he'd never learned to do. It took me being patient, focused on the goal, creative, etc. I really made a positive difference in his life - the family is very grateful. When they expressed that to me, I was mostly angry with them - why hadn't they done the same thing? It wasn't like it was hard - how hard is it to hold a gun to someone's head to get them to do something? And it would have really helped him out. But then, spending time with them, it was clear why they couldn't help - they were all too Aspergery/ADD/Catlady to make it happen. As soon as the going got rough they would have folded. They were really lucky to have a kind psychopath in their lives.

Anyway, this got me thinking that psychopathic families will relate "psychopathically" to the news they are "special" (with a shrug, or perhaps a prideful, "yes, we're really at our best in crises"). If they get serious about change, they'll detonate their lives - really burn them to the ground - and set up a life with structure (join the military/monastery) and try again. Aspergery/ADD/Catlady families will wring their hands and start a self-improvement program (and then quit it 6 weeks in). Stupid families will be too stupid to integrate the information and do anything.

So in conclusion, perhaps it makes sense that extreme traits in families - creativity, psychopathy, stupidity, ADHD - exist because they are self-sustaining. Eg society will try to get the underclass to behave more like the middle class; it won't work. Society will try to get the psychopaths to behave - they'll ignore it. Society will try to get the ADHD/Aspergery people to retrain their brains - but perhaps they'll be too distracted/upset to make changes. Or maybe not - perhaps this is just overthinking it.

38 comments:

  1. Last night another college shooting. This is becoming a trend.
    Sex and/or status seem to be the motivation.
    When are people going to see that it's time for realistic white lady robots
    to be invented? They would cost the same as automobiles, some basic, and
    some fancy.
    There is no greater feeling in the world then when you're realistic robot looks up
    at you with love in her eyes after your 100th "session." It's just like the song
    "After The Lovin."

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I can imagine the best hope for you to get any form of sexual intercourse would be lady robots.
      Love Adge.

      Delete
    2. It is not just in your imagination, Adge. ;) I had a link for this comment, but, this time, I will just leave it up to the reader's imagination.

      Delete
  2. Are there any other entries about Professor Psychopath?

    ReplyDelete
  3. I'm having difficulty understanding the point of this remarkably disjointed post. Your conclusion has very little to do with the previous nine paragraphs, which may explain why the first two comments have absolutely nothing to do with your multiple anecdotes and the third wishes for more information about the Professor, wholly ignoring your ten paragraphs' worth of tedium.

    So let me be the first to attempt to engage your topic.

    Extreme traits in families do not exist because they are self-sustaining. A trait is intangible; it cannot sustain itself. Families may exhibit similar characteristics due in large part to the nature/nurture argument. This is a very rudimentary explanation, but clearly it's appropriate for the author. Genetics may induce higher base intelligence/creativity/psychopathy/etc. in offspring, but the environment in which they are raised will ultimately determine how they present themselves as both children and adults. Of course, their myriad experiences outside the home (from childhood to adulthood) will also impact the qualities they exude.

    Your example suggests that society makes a concerted effort to change those who don't properly "fit the mold," so to speak. While I agree that Western society craves conformity to established mainstream labels (hipster, yuppie, emo, etc.), your examples are nonsensical. Society doesn't want the lower class to behave like the middle class, unless you specifically mean that the lower class should stop engaging in various criminal activities that are less common in the upper classes. If this is your intention, then I don't understand the problem. Also, psychopathy (or rather, Antisocial Personality Disorder) and ADHD/Asperger's are clinical disorders that many will insist be treated, much to the chagrin of the diagnosed individual.

    People will almost always be resistant to change, no matter their background. So what's your point?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Society doesn't want the lower class to behave like the middle class, unless you specifically mean that the lower class should stop engaging in various criminal activities that are less common in the upper classes."

      I believe they mean the whole keeping up with the Jones's life of rampant consumption.

      Which is a tad ridiculous since it's not that the lower classes are somehow purer or more resistant to being consumer whores, it's simply that they lack the means.

      Delete
    2. I agree with you both about the lack of clarity the OP displays in his/her post. And that society always seeks to have its members conform. That works to a point when it comes to certain things, but it will never work on individuals for whom personal freedom is life itself. The only way to influence others in a lasting way is through inspiration, not tyranny. Because inspiration is happily absorbed and thus embraced as free will.

      Mr. Hyde

      Delete
    3. Why are you trying to dismantle this argument? disjointed?? Your comment leaves me with an after thought of "huh???"

      Delete
  4. I suppose a woman would be upset by ANY form of against-her-will-sex
    unless her actual survival depended on it.
    In wartime women have no choice.
    It's interesting to note that not all German women found "pressure sex" bad.
    Men need a place. Women need a "reason." If a women's life depends on it
    she can be "accomadating." There was the case of a German woman with
    a child that had an "arraingement" with a Soviet soldier. She (at least)
    "pretended" to enjoy it. She "adjusted" to it. The man gave her son a Russian
    cap.
    I wish North were here to give her learned opinion. Confucious says: "If rape is
    inevitable, lie back and enjoy it." I think he's speaking in figerative sense.
    It's a known fact that women are more mallable then men. They can survive
    better in prison then men.
    Suppose some man "took" sex from a woman in a non violent way?
    Like putting something in her drink? Would she still be just as enraged as if she
    was the victim of a violent assult?
    I'm not interested in groping or terrorizing, just knocking out, using, and putting
    her back where I found her unharmed. Some people are incapable of haggling
    and negotiating.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I believe both men and women dislike anything that is against their will, even if their survival depends on it. They may do whatever they need to do, in order to survive. Lorena Bobbitt just came to mind...

      Delete
    2. Where is Mr. Hyde?

      Delete
    3. Anon@6:16 pm, Lol! You are right. Any being may do anything to survive but if its against their will they will resent it.

      Anon@ 6:38 I was temporarily sidetracked by fluctuations in the matrix. ;)

      Delete
    4. "I suppose a woman would be upset by ANY form of against-her-will-sex unless her actual survival depended on it."

      Yes, because if her survival depends on it, surely she'll enjoy it! Impeccable logic, you flaccid fuck. :P

      "It's interesting to note that not all German women found "pressure sex" bad.

      Men need a place. Women need a "reason." If a women's life depends on it

      she can be "accomadating." There was the case of a German woman with

      a child that had an "arraingement" with a Soviet soldier. She (at least)

      "pretended" to enjoy it. She "adjusted" to it. The man gave her son a Russian

      cap."

      So if you *FORCE* a woman to sleep with you, eventually she'll conclude that you aren't merely a disgusting, loathsome, impotent little man, thereby giving her a "reason" to tolerate the intolerable. You're just a regular Don Juan, aren't you? :P

      "I wish North were here to give her learned opinion. Confucious says: "If rape is

      inevitable, lie back and enjoy it." I think he's speaking in figerative sense."

      "It's a known fact that women are more mallable then men. They can survive

      better in prison then men."

      "So it's ok if I rape them"... Right guys? Huh? Right?"

      What a repulsive display of your pathetic need for self-validation.

      Delete
    5. Suppose some man "took" sex from a woman in a non violent way?"

      "LIke putting something in her drink?"

      That would first require a woman to *accept* a drink from you- and unless we're talking about "lady-robots", that would require a level of socialization that you are incapable of achieving. XD

      "Would she still be just as enraged as if she was the victim of a violent assult?"

      You say "as if" she were the victim of "violent assault"- as though the act of knocking a woman out in order to rape her does not, in fact, constitute a violent assault. You fucking moron. That is nothing more than asinine, idiotic question- designed entirely to justify the demons in your sex-starved, unbalanced mind.

      You may as well embrace your calling as a eunuch. You have no balls whatsoever- real or "figerative".

      "I'm not interested in groping or terrorizing, just knocking out, using, and putting

      her back where I found her unharmed."

      And yet, that is exactly what you are interested in doing: terrorizing a woman by knocking her out, pawing ineffectually at her corpse because you would be far too intimidated and awkward to know what to do with a responsive woman , and returning her in a psychologically devastated state. That hardly qualifies as "unharmed."

      "Some people are incapable of haggling and negotiating"

      And some people are just incapable. Like you.

      You are incapable of getting laid, because you are incapable of addressing the real reasons for the fact that women universally revile you, preferring instead to play the victim: of circumstance, astrology, poor genes, bad breath, whatever.

      You are incapable charming or seducing a woman, so you fantasize about forcefully appropriating what you cannot lure, yet are too weak to take. And while you're as loathsome as any garden-variety rapist, you are even more impotent, because you seek to justify yourself by clinging to self-righteousness. Your desperation blinds you so much that you are incapable of even admitting what you have allowed yourself to become.

      - It is the fault of the stars that you can't get laid.

      - Raping is ok if you don't "harm" the woman- as if knocking her out and violating her could in any way, shape, of form be deemed harmless.

      - Beautiful sociopath women like myself and m.e ought to be imprisoned and forced to function as sex-slaves for middle-aged, piss-poor, delusional creepers like you. Hahaha!

      - You have such a "heart" that you come here to lie about various fictional exploits, such as manipulating depressed old bitties into offing themselves.

      You pathetic cockroach of a man. You come here attempting to justify rape, because you are too weak to address the *actual* reasons that you are unable to attract a mate. You'd rather blame the stars for your inadequacy, and jerk off to thoughts of holding women like m.e and I captive, because you know that in reality, we would skin you alive, and enjoy the ensuing freak show.

      Keep talking, Lon. I'm going to expose your guts in all their offal glory. :)







      Delete
    6. A has done it again! You have a distinct talent for these responses, and I am adding a visual to your well-crafted "vivisection." :)

      In keeping with Anon's post, I am calling it "the otherwordly lure."

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD3cFY7YPwl

      Delete
    7. A, I wish to thank you once again for your brutal analysis.

      You speak for victims of rape. Your bloody wit facilitates the vicarious pleasure of what they wish they could articulate about men who think drugging and raping women is "harmless."

      Thank you.

      The women who can't fight back, those who don't know how to begin to express the terror and humiliation, would read your deconstruction as a clarion call. I'd like to share with a couple of rape victims what you've written . . . if that's OK with you.

      Mr. Hyde

      Delete
    8. "Keep talking, Lon. I'm going to expose your guts in all their offal glory. :)"

      As the page loaded on my phone, I saw this line first and immediately though - 'that must be A'.

      And I most certainly agree: violating is not ever harmless. The body and mind are intricately bound.

      Delete
    9. Thanks, Gardel and Mr. Hyde. I do very much enjoy "vivisection". SW is one place where I indulge this propensity quite liberally.

      And yes, Mr. Hyde, feel free to share my thoughts.

      Delete
    10. A, "I do very much enjoy "vivisection". SW is one place where I indulge this propensity quite liberally."

      Lol. As you should. If not here, where?

      I will share your post to two women I know who cannot seem to revel in giving the assholes who raped them shit.

      You're pen is a mighty sword.

      Mr. Hyde

      Delete
    11. Should read, "will share your post with two women."

      And "your" mighty pen.

      Mr. Hyde

      Delete
  5. Humans "instinctively" normalise within their social groups. It doesn't seem to matter what we normalise around, so long as we appear "normal". This is, perhaps, a mechanism for groups to self-sustain, a conservative social mechanism. Families develop their own norms, as do community groups, racial groups, provincial groups und so weiter (think empathy circles).

    Dynamics of change are so fascinating. We are all keenly aware of the inherent danger of being too many standard deviations from the mean, lol.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. North, your compass points in the direction of common sense. I've also noticed the different mindsets we label as normal, depending on the environment we find ourselves in. Violence is normalized in war, in prisons, in certain neighborhoods, for instance. Anyway, you always make excellent points and I enjoy reading your posts.

      Mr. Hyde

      Delete
    2. I thought I replied to this... Thankyou, Mr Hyde. I enjoy the directions in which you take my posts and all others :)

      Delete
    3. Thank you, North. I guess we're a philosophical tag team!

      Mr. Hyde

      Delete
    4. Philosophy is a team sport :)

      Delete
    5. A team sport -- Rah! Love that!

      Mr. Hyde

      Delete
  6. "They noticed all things that have made his life (and those in his family) difficult: OCD, social anxiety and lousy impulse control. They noted he had a great ability to strategize and scheme, but little ability to complete things. Total desire/inability to do assigned tasks - he wouldn't follow orders . He did work on tasks that he found interesting."

    This is so me. It sounds strange for a sociopath, doesn't it?

    ReplyDelete
  7. I always love informational post which helps us to increase our knowledge. Here found new post which is best for me.

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  8. This is a question for North:

    Does anyone know you post here? (Your ex, perhaps?) It would appear that you acquired a troll a few posts back. :)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. A, if my ex checked his emails, yes, he would know. But I am quite certain he doesn't.

      I've noticed a slight increase in trolling lately. We welcome trolls for your vivisective pleasure and our entertainment ;)

      Delete
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    !!! it used to be connected to this blog but was disconnected over a year ago. We need fresh blood and lots of interesting things have happened recently (relates to kiwifar.ms drama: https://archive.is/M2tXa) that will go down in the forum's history! Be sure to check out http://www.psychforums.com/antisocial-personality/ too, as some of its regulars are regulars on SC too!

    Goddamn ME refused to reconnect the blog to the forum so we SC goers will just have to spam advertisements for the forum in the comments section. ;)

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