Tuesday, February 16, 2010

Ch-ch -changes

A reader informs me that aspies aren't the only ones getting reshuffled in the proposed new DSM.
Interestingly, the new DSM, or at least the draft presented online, (1) renames ASPD to "Antisocial/Psychopathic PD" and (2) completely removes NPD. Narcissists now have "a core personality impairment with prominent traits such as callousness, manipulativeness, histrionism and narcissism." Sociopaths on the other hand have "callousness, aggression, manipulativeness, hostility, deceitfulness, narcissism, irresponsibility, recklessness and impulsivity." It seems that under the new definitions sociopaths are just malicious, foolhardy narcissists with a diminished emotional repertoire. This is really a new perspective and one that might or might not be as absurd as it seems at first glance.

Again, this shows how the definitions (such as DSM) are completely misleading as to the depth of experience and as to the diversity of different wirings out there.


12 comments:

  1. Well this changes the whole game. I hope this doesn't turn into another excuse to medicate the "mentally ill".

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  2. My mother said to get things done, you'd better not mess with Major Tom ;)

    Tink

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  3. great song ME, the battle cry of my high school days. and i still hope i "never grow up and out of it!"
    xoxoxo

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  4. I read the new criteria for ASPD. Now they've merged Narcissism in with it, I could well argue that I'm not a sociopath. So technically they can take me out of the services and let me get on with my fucking life.

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  5. Narcissists now have "a core personality impairment with prominent traits such as callousness, manipulativeness, histrionism and narcissism."

    is narcissism defined at all in the dsm? or are circular definitions the sort of thing it typically offers up?

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  6. Zoe: it's being completely reformatted and coded because it's previously been inflexible to dual diagnosis - despite co morbidity being the norm for many disorders. And instead of a patient presenting with a clinical history of seemingly random laundry lists of impossibly changing or sequential disorders, the new 'trait' and scaling will at least have a superficial appearance of an organized diagnostic progression. It's like a Psych PR Face Lift...no actual forward scientific movement.

    Don't think of them as circular definitions...think of them as circular 'suggestions'.

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  7. the dsm is now filled with suggestions? ok then by that logic sociopaths must have sociopathy as a trait. :)

    the dual diagnosis of sociopaths having narcissism (if i'm following you) makes no sense to me since the two are so different with respect to awareness, insight and manipulation. although you could have a narcissist who thinks they're a sociopath.

    i think npd should have been left in the dsm, and sociopathy/psychopathy probably completely removed.

    if co-morbidity is the norm for disorders, perhaps the diagnostic process is flawed? a "normal" person is a composite of quirks and shadow syndromes. why then should individuals possessing a disorder be expected to be alike? that's a narcissistic view of mental disorders.

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  8. What is the essential difference between a narcissist and a sociopath, Zoe? If it's just awareness, what do you think a narcissist would do upon realizing the nature of his actions?

    Would he give up his life of manipulation, or would he justify it by denying morality as a fault, thus deifying his immoral behavior?

    How do sociopaths see their "condition?"

    Would Daniel Birdick classify this as a false dichotomy?

    Interesting questions.

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  9. >What is the essential difference between a narcissist and a sociopath, Zoe? If it's just awareness, what do you think a narcissist would do upon realizing the nature of his actions?

    Would he give up his life of manipulation, or would he justify it by denying morality as a fault, thus deifying his immoral behavior?


    interesting and loaded questions, anonymous.

    sociopathic manipulation is making use of images/masks as a means to an end, but narcissist manipulation is all about protecting and maintaining the image. the image is the point. so you’d have to make him see that the image was just an image, not him. i grew up in such an environment, and so far no luck. and we’d have these discussions ALL the time. there is academic knowledge, and then there is experience. narcissistic types take in very little experience, and they only allow themselves to do so when they have complete control over it. they warp the experience so it conforms to their idea of reality.

    i think awareness is an ability that we’re born with, like intelligence, or creativity. a person without much awareness of themselves or the world around them, might become a narcissist if they also become out of touch with their physical self. narcissistic types seem to live mostly in their heads and treat their bodies, and others, and pretty much all of physical reality, like props. if you could get the narcissist to live in the moment and occupy the body fully, to see things the way they are rather than how they should be, to admit being wrong, then i guess yeah he could give up his manipulative behavior and admit he was wrong.

    How do sociopaths see their "condition?"

    as a state of being aware, seeing reality for what it is? as not being a “condition”?

    if you were born into a society where everyone but you was blind, you would have an advantage. whether you took advantage of others, and to what degree, would depend entirely on what kind of a person you were, not on your ability to see. in this sense the condition is an ability.

    but I guess it all depends on how you define sociopathy. the current definition focuses on behavior, which may be why it seems similar to narcissism. but people can manipulate for different reasons.

    Would Daniel Birdick classify this as a false dichotomy?

    I’m guessing this one is meant for DB.:)

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  10. More people need to be on http://sociopath-community.com/

    !!! it used to be connected to this blog but was disconnected over a year ago. We need fresh blood and lots of interesting things have happened recently (relates to kiwifar.ms drama: https://archive.is/M2tXa) that will go down in the forum's history! Be sure to check out http://www.psychforums.com/antisocial-personality/ too, as some of its regulars are regulars on SC too!

    Goddamn ME refused to reconnect the blog to the forum so we SC goers will just have to spam advertisements for the forum in the comments section. ;)

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