Thursday, February 4, 2010

On empaths controlling/manipulating sociopaths (part 3)

A reader writes (cont.):
That's essentially it in a nutshell. There are hundreds of subtleties that aren't worthy of discussion, but this is the basics of it. Of course, step 3 is the most important. It is the "bread and butter" of the beautiful process. I have made real hard gains off of this manipulation, and not just the pleasure of knowing I have his bidding at my fingertips. I have made cold hard cash - more so than he made off of me. Believe it or not, we empaths can and do get serious pleasure out of manipulation - we just aren't as controlled by the desire as you are. This is why I know, ultimately, empaths are more powerful than sociopaths - so long as they have the capacity to become aware of what they're dealing with.

On a fairly separate note, I have developed and fine-tuned the ability to point out sociopaths upon observing some of their behavior. I don't know if you too are capable of this, but I can see clearly just from videos that L Ron Hubbard, Rod Blagojevich (especially obvious), and many others are sociopaths. I came to the realization that Charlie Sheen was one even before I was aware of his spousal and drinking issues and his proclivity towards child porn. Here's a fun fact you might not know: I can tell Angelina Jolie is one.

That's all for now.

43 comments:

  1. Sounds like a delusional woman with borderline personality disorder, or maybe an S with extra ego issues playing a game. Though I wouldn't be surprised if those people were S's. A lot of people think Angelina is one it seems.

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  2. Actually, all of those people have stuff written on them online that suggests they are sociopaths. Whole articles. So you would just need to be able to go online to tell that lol. No one needs strong empath abilities to see what is going on with Sociotology.

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  3. I think there is some truth to what the poster has written. I just don't understand what's to be gained by doing all that. You are just stealing if you are manipulating them to steal from them. You are just as messed up. And I think you run the risk of the manipulative behaviour spilling out in other areas, though I imagine a good manipulator is someone already kinda messed up. Perhaps the point of this entertaining post was to point out hypocrisy with empaths that express anger at what S's do.

    I think sane N's may get angry and say things, but most will not do the awful things that S's do, no matter what. We are not perfect, but we are not wicked. You can project and fool yourself that we are like you only just with a pointless conscience and retarded empathy, but it is you who is lacking, you who hurt others and likely create and spawn abusers and lineages of abusers, you who fool yourself with blind logic. No offense or anything.

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  4. aspie said, "No offense or anything."

    LOL. Passive aggressive much?

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  5. sociopaths make great actors - why not capitalize on your abilities and gain power in doing so?

    just another way America structurally advantages socios. at the expense of others of course.

    this person risks going crazy with her antics. every person who comes into close contact with a socio does. THEY DO THAT TO PEOPLE!

    that is why it is SOO important to get away, as far as you can at least. for the sake of your sanity!

    that is why, figuratively, socios are just like staph. they come in when there is a wound, and they feed and feed. google image staph, and you will see what socios can do to your mind - especially if you get too caught up in the "revenge" shit.

    no one is worth being driven nuts, no matter how gorgeous/intelligent/godlike they are. NO ONE.

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  6. "You can project and fool yourself that we are like you only just with a pointless conscience and retarded empathy."

    Not all sociopaths believe this, nor do all sociopaths lack [at least a semblance of] conscience or empathy.

    What is "retarded" are empaths who believe that they will gain anything from enabling sociopaths by acting against their own set of morals. I dislike the term "normal" as there is no such person. One can be dull and unimaginative, but certainly not "normal." It just so happens that most people are dull and unimaginative.

    Just as there are malicious sociopaths, there are malicious empaths, but there are also well-meaning individuals from both category. Demonizing those with or are lacking certain character traits (i.e. strong sense of empathy/morality/etc.) is nothing but bigotry.

    Are you going to tell me I am less than you because I was born a certain way, which was out of my control?

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  7. Not less than, no. I don't think I am better. But the s is possibly dangerous because most S's as a rule lie, cheat and steal. This is what sociopaths do, even the lite ones. They have little or no remorse. No guilt. The S is dishonest at a minimum.

    Yeah people are boring. So what. Who cares. It's the liars you have to worry about.

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  8. This is assuming that only sociopaths lie, which we all know is not true. Lies and deceit is unique to humans for a reason. Without lies, (i.e. religion, politics, etc.) society would not function.

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  9. That's true, we all lie, but sociopaths, based on what I have seen and read, take lying to a whole other level. They tell lies for the hell of it. They lie when there is not even a reason to. They mimic N behavior, it's all a big fake. They lie acting like they love someone and continue lying as they get their joy from creating pain. They lie so much that eventually it undoes them in time. Or am I wrong?

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  10. These behaviours aren't exclusive to sociopaths (take the reader, for example). But, it is true they are generally more elevated for sociopaths, only some are aware of their behaviour, and others are not. The difference here is where an empath may realize their immoral behaviour and feel guilt, the sociopath may not. On the other hand, in order to hide this lack of guilt and function along with society, the only thing to do is mimic and pretend.

    I lie to remove myself from awkward situations, and I lie to make others feel less threatened, but that doesn't necessarily mean that my intention is to hurt them; it's simply a way to get on with life undetected. I do admit that my dishonesty has inadvertently hurt others mostly because I have difficulty understanding how it may have affected them in the first place. For those I dislike or threaten me in some way, I have no qualms about hurting them and enjoying the outcome, but tell me, how is that any different from the reader above?

    Lies undo anyone who tell them, though it depends on how good you are at weaving them. There are, however, sociopaths out there who can't keep any of their lies in check (my father and uncle included, either because they simply do not care or just because they're old and have terrible memories).

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  11. I've imagined this way of being as you describe, but everything I've read suggests that sociopaths have a negative bent. They are not neutral, which is kind of what you are describing. They are operating soley from a what benefits them standpoint. They take what they want mercilessly.

    Though I disagree with what reader above says they do, and think it somewhat odd, the rational is that they are screwing up a screwerupper. Kind of a weird vigalanteism.

    Someone could see you (unintentionally) hurt someone they like and then come to threaten you or act in a way that makes you dislike them and of course you would do what you do. You don't see how that is a little messed up?

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  12. What qualifies as a "dislike"?

    Many sociopaths describe joy in reaching a persons deepest self, securing total trust, encouraging them to fall in love, and then in bits screwing with them slamming their emotions around, playing with them and sometimes just going for one big drop, getting pleasure from the suffering they create. How is this rationalized? How is this unintentional or how does this person threaten the S or be disliked. Because they got bored? Maybe because they are bored. It seems that it is premeditated from the beginning, with the goal to watch the pain and get the high.

    Maybe this is just natural to the S but it is dangerous to the N. Not just to the N it happens to but all his/her friends and family as empathetic people (the 96% that are). If you were a relatively healthy N and that person was your daughter, you would understand my position I think better. Yes, you wouldn't want some nutty "n" around her either, but as S's are almost pretty much guaranteed trouble, as a neuro form or whatever, they are particularly reviled. I would argue that people that have a conscience can learn and can stop certain behaviors. They can become better people.

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  13. Better in the sense that they engage less or not at all in behaviors that S's live by.

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  14. I accept that there are those that find the way I function undesirable, but I do what I can to survive. If I am threatened, I will respond accordingly. Sometimes I don't react maliciously at all to maintain my credibility as the shy and harmless individual that I've always pretended tobe. Being what I am it's almost impossible to expect me to see my behaviour as negative on your scale of acceptable/unacceptable behaviour, so no I do not find it "messed up."

    By "dislike" I mean those who take my fabrications at face value and try their hand at manipulating or taking advantage of my false persona. I will admit it I do enjoy watching their attempts fail due to my unresponsiveness, and later retaliating unexpectedly. To some degree this may be considered premeditated. I do tend to be rather passive in general, and I prefer others to come to me instead. For me, it seems easier to justify in this case because I see it as me merely responding to someone else's actions.

    For the most part, I prefer being alone, which also saves me the trouble of having to conceal my thoughts and behaviours or deal with the possible consequences of them. I wouldn't recommend my company for those who cannot handle it, either. And, you are right, those you can't ought to look elsewhere.

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  15. I wonder if false personas give off subtle signals that influence behaviour somehow. If you are acting shy and nervous as a front, I wonder if this false behavior could be detected on some level by others and influence the way one acts in response to it.

    For example, my friend was very kind and I liked that. But there was something off about it, like he was too kind and too confident. It was nothing I thought about but just felt. Like he was much older than his age and had a very usual maturity. So I kind of was curious and maybe tested it a little. Perhaps this came off as me trying to take advantage or something devious when it really wasn't.

    I wonder if falseness can bring out behaviors that may not have come out if the behavior was true. If that makes any sense.

    Perhaps it is the S that is deluded in thinking that his manipulations show people for what they really. Maybe all it shows is how people are when they are exposed or deal with falseness.

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  16. The reader’s sweeping generalizations and formulaic approach give the impression that she doesn’t know much about manipulation. I am also detecting a narcissistic streak which makes me wonder if she is taking a little too much credit for the situations in her boyfriend’s life that led to his sacrificing something to her?

    And what exactly did he end up sacrificing to her? How did she create the pretense of situations leading to more power and control? I want details!

    Her manipulation tactics seem to be based solely on the stereotypical view that many empaths crave security, fulfillment & sympathy, and all sociopaths crave power and control. That’s a bit like assuming because all women love to be seduced to some extent, the same seduction strategy would work on all.

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  17. Perhaps it is the S that is deluded in thinking that his manipulations show people for what they really. Maybe all it shows is how people are when they are exposed or deal with falseness.

    if you come across as shy and awkward some people may be sympathetic, but a lot will jump at the chance to take advantage.

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  18. I find what Zoe has said to be quite true, and being still young, I've only gradually begun to realize that I myself have used others' attempts at taking advantage of my false persona as a way of singling out people who come looking for trouble instead of hurting those who secure my fairly stable position in society.

    I've recently come across what I believe to be a Narcissist who has latched on to the idea that I'm an easy target. Unfortunately, his attempts have been unsuccessful, and in effect, I've managed to either turn the majority of our mutual empaths against him or at least instill a healthy amount of distrust towards him; keeping him in his place. The only people who have actually confronted me for being hurtful towards them are the ones who have tried to test me, but I've done an adequate job of mopping things up afterward, since I'd rather them be for me than against me at this point.

    The only explanation for why I am so passive as opposed to so many other more aggressive sociopaths out there is that perhaps it's due to several years of managing an aggressive sociopathic father. Who knows?

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  19. Guess-diagnosing an actress you've never met does not result in a fun "fact."

    I'm a writer and I really enjoy this blog very much. Sometimes I suspect that these letters are made up. They all seem to be the same (too-long) length, and there is a certain similarity of language.

    Anyone else?

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  20. There's a bit of an airheaded fashion thing that links glamour vampires to sociopaths, and so it makes sense that a lot of people will be looking in the mirror and convincing themselves they are sociopathic. Ishtar, are you formally diagnosed or is it enough these days to simply decide to call yourself a sociopath? Who can say over the Internet but you exhbit non-sociopathic behaviour on this blog. So, what is it, formal diagnosis, or Ishtar looking in the mirror and thinking "yeah, that's me"

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  21. Still on this subject?...i think i'l come back later.

    Tink :)

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  22. There's a bit of an airheaded fashion thing that links glamour vampires to sociopaths, and so it makes sense that a lot of people will be looking in the mirror and convincing themselves they are sociopathic.

    I'm quite sure I don't sparkle or rescue high school girls from werewolves, if that's what you mean.

    So, what is it, formal diagnosis, or Ishtar looking in the mirror and thinking "yeah, that's me"

    The former, and sorry to disappoint you. I'll try harder next time to be more diabolical and scheming. Perhaps if I call other people my "pawns" you'll be more convinced? Or maybe throw in an evil laugh while rubbing my hands together while I'm at it.

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  23. "I'm a writer and I really enjoy this blog very much. Sometimes I suspect that these letters are made up. They all seem to be the same (too-long) length, and there is a certain similarity of language"

    Yeah it seems like that. Not just of language but of form. Like there is deliberate effort to not use lowercase, no spelling errors etc. That and the fact that S's pretty much lie by design tends to cast doubt on any of it. Perhaps this helps the world (lol) by presenting a mimick of a direction of some thought and allows the lowly Ns to express their hypocrisy. But the responses can be interesting.

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  24. This is just insane and stupid.

    All of it.

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  25. As far as I can tell, the empaths here seem to think there is some magic evil inside psychopaths which forces them to lie, or indeed, that they do it only for their own personal pleasure. Psychopathy would be almost indistinguishable from autism (at first glance) if its sufferers did not lie. When you lack an ability to instinctively grasp social norms, empathy or morality, and have a heightened sense of boredom, you will be outcast by almost every person whom you come into contact with. Unless of course, that is, you copy the behaviour of others in order to prevent this.

    Yes, they sometimes lie for personal gain and sadism. This is because of how they are often isolated from anyone who thinks like they do, and these neuroses accumulate into a lack of long term consideration of their actions. Just because you have been tricked by one, or have heard of criminals with the disease, does not mean they are all necessarily the same. Lawyers, surgeons, politicians, actors and businessmen all require some degree of sociopathy to function. And these are also jobs in which risky lies, in most cases, will be punished. Lying is not an art. It is a soft science. If you have discovered that you have been lied to without going to great lengths to discover this, then your problem is that you were conversing with an unintelligent person (regardless of whether they are a psychopath or not).

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  26. It would not be surprising if the letters are fake/bullshit. Sociopaths ARE liars, after all.

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  27. Either every person reading this blog is an English major or a spellcheck fanatic, or . . . ? As much as I like the entertainment factor of the blog and the subsequent commentary, I sometimes wonder if it's the same handful of people who are writing. I've never seen a blogsite with a complete absence of grammar and spelling mistakes. It's certainly not representative of the average (non) intelligence out there. Odd.

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  28. The posters on this blog must be made up of Grammar Nazis. They seem to take immense pride in delivering precise replies.

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  29. The posters on this blog must be made up of Grammar Nazis. They seem to take immense pride in delivering precise replies.

    Such as yourself? :)

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  30. ***SARCASM ALERT!!!***

    The posters on this blog must be made up of Grammar Nazis. They seem to take immense pride in delivering precise replies.

    And this is a… what? Problem? I am guilty as charged. I do indeed take pride in being able to speak and write articulately. What can I tell you? I'm crazy like that.

    What were you all expecting? Ebonics or white trash lingo or growls, grumbles and grunts? There is some of all the above in the comments section on previous posts, btw. (See that? I just did an internet-ese acronym with the phrase by the way. Feel better?) In one of M.E.’s posts, the ones featuring someone saying he was a drug dealer, the comments turned quite ghetto fabulous. Ok, I’ll admit it. Those comments were a nice change of pace. There, happy? :-)

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  31. Ishtar: Rarely are my replies so coherent. Consider yourself warned.

    Daniel Birdick: Not been expecting anything at all. :) Just admiring the punctuation, grammar and intellectual capabilities of the posters here. Most blogs, forums 'n sites are filled with incompetent dimwits who only manage piss-poor spelling and punctuation. This place is a cut above the rest.

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  32. This place is a cut above the rest.

    Thank you love! (Bowing deeply.)

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  33. Daniel Birdick:

    Ah... I forgot to use my nickname but I'm busted again by you.

    Just someone from Herr Doktor's board.

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  34. "Either every person reading this blog is an English major or a spellcheck fanatic, or . . . ?"

    Using proper spelling/punctuation does not make one a "Grammar Nazi;" it just demonstrates their class privilege.

    It is the erudition of most people on this website that attracts me. I am by far an empath, but enjoy engaging with other analytic people here.

    [Semi-rant on empathy: America encourages people to be emotionally driven, and make dumb decisions (vote for con-artists, spend more than you save, give your virginity away too young after shopping at Forever 21, etc.). Empathy might have subjective utility in many cases (like in making hot steamy love versus fucking), but good grief it should not dictate your entire existence! This forum is a decent oasis amidst the anti-intellectualism of the U.S. For me, it keeps me from being driven nuts by an actual socio, while still satisfying my strong desire to learn and interact with other analytic people...who I have a negative desire to psychologically emulate.]

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  35. I thought sociopaths where supposed to be intelligent?

    Empathy is not the same thing as being emotional(spend some time researching empathy). Telling others to be more "empathic" is akin to telling others to be more "sociopathic".

    People are what they are. It is not a light switch that can be turned on and off(but you can cover your eye's to the light to a degree). Nor is it a state of perpetual gullibility, idiocy or weakness.

    It is almost akin to a biological V chip. That is why empaths can "come out on top" in regards to sociopaths. The V chip doesn't go off most of the time(and on the rare occasion it does, it is very weak).P.S firefox and most web-browsers have built in spell check functions.

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  36. I do think there is truth to this, but whats to be gained. I'm an empath and clearly you have succeeded in puzzling every sociopath in here. I do believe you are right at empaths being able to win with a sociopath but its a hollow victory in terms of hurting they're feelings or making them remorseful or wish they'd never fucked you over. You'll get no emotional sign of satisfaction. You can fuck them up physically as far as ruining they're shit or uncomfortable or take they're sources and make it harder for them to con people. But sociopaths dont go this far because there is nothing to gain. I could never gain nothing out of my ex he used me just as much as i used him. I used him because I thought at first he would be all about me and do anything I wanted because Of my looks and the fact that I was younger before I found out he was a sociopath. I seen a question about socios vs socios. I dont know if I'm a socio or empath or maybe just something else. But just like the guy above I do not mind being used if I'm benefiting from the situation but I'm a dancer and an escort so I like to think of this as an acquired trait seeing as I'm empathetic with my son and I rly dont target women. More of a man hater. But you cannot say a sociopath will react exactly this way in x situation. I know me personally if I'm looking to use someone I personally have to be in the situation to figure out how to manipulate that situation into working for me. Sociopaths typically see through this and its hard to get anything out of them. My kids dad is a diagnosed sociopath. If I feel like hes gonna babysit Ill deal with him but as soon as I see another oppurtunity that benefits me better I'm out. We literally lost our house and our car tit for tatting. If he had been with a sociopath I imagine they would have found this to be an annoyance and moved on and vice versa. Initially I imagine its alluring to see the workings of on as thats what even captivated me about him and they might like that it's not monotonous as being with an empath. However I see a major power struggle. I see it as a fun conquest for the short term but after that I see pure mayhem. I have no idea how this would go but I would love to see him with someone as good as him. I spent years trying to really crush him after he cheated on me because everyone but me knew about it. I tried moving dudes into his house. I spent up all his mothers inheritance while he was in jail.... Never did it once emotionally wear on him. I could not break him down. I did manage to humiliate him which I imagine sociopaths do not like. I took all his friends once I exposed him, but I wanted to see some tears that I never got. Only fake ones. I can't imagine another sociopath would find this amusing as it's too much work for no return, but I only have experience in dealing with him. We could actually win because of the lengthes were willing to go. I dont like to be mad a fool of. It heats me from the core to think of how he was just making me look dumb to everyone behind my back. So I did the same and now he has NO ONE.

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  37. How to identify a sociopath:

    I can tell by their expressions, generally they move the FRONT PART OF THEIR FACES while the sides/back of the face remains rather stoic, hard, they mainly move their eyebrows and mouth. A natural expression requires movement of more muscles.

    Also, their facial expressions are SMOOTH, kind of flowing like a song as if rehearsed, and not random noise which would be the natural way of reacting to different emotions on the spot.

    For example watch the following video of DAVID BOWIE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZtHxP4EMV0

    Or JESSE JAMES (Sandra Bullock's exhusband):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UM6Z8lnmi2U

    Or ANGELINA JOLIE:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lH70NQr0KEs

    I just checked Charlie Sheen, per this article's author's claim, and yeah, he looks like it.

    Try it and let me know what you find, but you may have to observe for long periods of time to notice the pattern.

    Disclaimer: The examples may or may not be sociopaths, I just showed them as an example of their facial expressions, although they do portray sociopathic traits.

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  38. More people need to be on http://sociopath-community.com/

    !!! it used to be connected to this blog but was disconnected over a year ago. We need fresh blood and lots of interesting things have happened recently (relates to kiwifar.ms drama: https://archive.is/M2tXa) that will go down in the forum's history! Be sure to check out http://www.psychforums.com/antisocial-personality/ too, as some of its regulars are regulars on SC too!

    Goddamn ME refused to reconnect the blog to the forum so we SC goers will just have to spam advertisements for the forum in the comments section. ;)

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    ReplyDelete

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