Wednesday, February 3, 2010

On empaths controlling/manipulating sociopaths (part 2)

A reader writes (cont.):
The method is quite simple. In fact, it employs many of the same methods that sociopaths use to manipulate empaths. The first key is to realize an essential fact: everything - and I mean absolutely every single thing - the sociopath says is suspect (particularly things of any significance regarding the future). (This is why I remain skeptical about your true nature, and extremely so of your supposed intentions regarding your site.) What do I mean by this? In short, I mean: I always figured his words were very likely total bullshit. I always had my guard up. I stopped believing in the authenticity of everything that came out of his mouth, of all his actions, of all his feigned emotions. I maintained the artificial pretense (sound familiar?) that I felt authenticity out of him and out of his supposed intentions. This actually required much less acting than I initially thought it would, because more than anything it simply required a "freeing up" of my typical emotional responses (which wasn't all that hard to do). I would have to feign an air of nervousness in his presence every now and then, because I knew this satisfied him and made him feel in control.

Step 2: I engaged in subtle, subtle, subtle forms of flattery. You sociopaths are more prone to flattery than you would like to believe (and no - he is not a narcissist...not worth my time explaining how I know, but I am quite certain). In fact when I came across a blog post on your site (I haven't read that many) where you stated that one way to control a sociopath might be through flattery, I literally laughed out loud.

Step 3 (the last step): I acted and planned constantly with the awareness that what he craves most is control and power. This awareness allowed me to devise situations that would appear to him as if they would lead to more power/control for him in his life (especially toward his peers), when in fact I engineered them to end up in him sacrificing something to me. You may notice that this is basically the same thing you do to empaths in relationships with them: you create a pretense of situations that will lead to more emotional security, fulfillment, sympathy, etc. because this is precisely what many empaths crave, whereas I create the pretense of situations leading to more power/control because this is what sociopaths crave.

52 comments:

  1. "that will lead to more emotional security, fulfillment, sympathy, etc. because this is precisely what many empaths crave"

    If thats what you crave ( as you stated you are even more empath than normal and thus crave these things more than anything), than what the fuck are you doing occupying yourself playing these games?

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    1. We can't help but to do what's been done to us

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  2. I am more empaths than most empaths would be… yet am I more calculating and manipulative than I think most sociopaths would be...

    Remarkable. Whether this is a real correspondence or M.E. treating us to his budding fiction writing skills, it still demonstrates my point beautifully. I think this blatant contradiction is endemic of “empaths” as a general rule of thumb. Their goal is to keep the contradictions unconscious so that the fiction of being a “good person” in some way, shape or form can remain intact in their own minds. That is mental gymnastics at its finest. It’s almost like watching a magic show.

    I kinda love it.

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  3. I'm liking this story more and more..

    Keep going, please.

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  4. Whoever wrote this is completely stupid.

    You say you are more empathetic than most, but then greatly enjoy playing the same "tricks" as a sociopath does?

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    1. An empath can feel the feelings of another person, it doesnt mean they have to be a door mat in the process. WTF!!!

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  5. This reminds me of catholic priests molesting young boys.

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  6. Whoever wrote this sounds absolutely delusional (and stupid). Either that, or M.E. is in fact trying his hand at fiction.

    What's the purpose of sharing your "victory" over a sociopath with another sociopath, who will likely post this long-winded exposition on the internet for more sociopaths to read?

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  7. sounds to me like the soc really did a number on this person writing, either that or the writer hasn't had much experience in relationships. my advice to the writer is to realize that "sometimes their just not that into you" and that spending time trying to "get back" at that other person is often pointless, especially if it is a true sociopath.
    the sooner you move on the sooner you may just find the type of person who loves you the way you need to be loved, rather than spinning your wheels trying to beat someone that you have no business fighting.
    question: is it possible that being hurt in an extreme way can could cause one to begin to exhibit sociopathic tendencies?
    my guess is that it could.

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  8. To muymalgal...very well said & I totally agree that being hurt by a sociopath (stabbed and almost killed) can cause the empath to develop sociopathic tendencies...the rage & feeling consumed with the need for revenge can become overpowering at times. And to others...why is when an empath posts about their turning the tables on a sociopath you respond with contempt? Not so much contempt for the original behavior of the sociopath on here, but lots on the empath

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  9. "why is when an empath posts about their turning the tables on a sociopath you respond with contempt? Not so much contempt for the original behavior of the sociopath on here, but lots on the empath"

    Because it wreaks of hypocrisy and self-victimization. As if being mistreated by a "monster" justifies behaving like one as well while still feebly maintaining the claim that one is still an honourable individual.

    Lets face it, we don't expect any better from a sociopath than we do an empath, and it's interesting (at least for me) to see how some empaths can be reduced from these idealized versions of themselves as moral beings to the animals that they truly are; making them no better than the object of their hatred. Only the empath's unfavourable behaviour is quite often based on jealousy, greed, wrath, etc., while for many non-empaths it's out of a detached curiosity.

    Forgive me for not being sympathetic enough ;)

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  10. Oh dear gods... rofl! What an entertaining post. Reminds me of the time I turned some of family members against one another. I was a child then, and you flatter, plot and you plant all the subtle suggestions and just watch as they play right into your hands. I was angry but curiosity also grew in me.

    Yah, when people get angry and mad, they can be utterly vicious, amoral and if they can close off their emotions, they can be capable of almost everything. Oh wait, they don't even have to get angry. They can just have ambition or something else: something that justifies acting in this manner.

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  11. It's amazing what normals can be capable of, eh? It's almost like the pot calling the kettle black.

    Btw, forgot to say this: humans are capable of mirroring others in their environment just to survive. Now, I wonder. What would happen if you put a normal(capable of extreme mirroring) into a world of sociopaths. Sure, the person will get torn to pieces but it's the "after" that'd be interesting to me.

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  12. "Because it wreaks of hypocrisy and self-victimization. As if being mistreated by a "monster" justifies behaving like one as well while still feebly maintaining the claim that one is still an honourable individual."

    What the fuck is wrong with you emotionally retarded sociopathic numbskulls? What don't you get about 'revenge is not uniquely or even primarily sociopathic'?
    This is why most sadistic/abusive sociopaths don't get old, they quietely vanish. You just don't get it do you. Sooner or later you are going to abuse someone who has a brother or a father or a cousin or an old friend, who will simply come for you one night, and you will join the long list of missing persons. This sort of thing is probably nearly as frequent as abusive sociopaths, because, whether by paying others or by their own hands, A LOT OF EMOTIONALLY NORMAL people out there, will take absolute revenge if you hurt the people they love. This WILL be how some of you finish up.

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  13. whether it was 3 years ago, 5 years ago, 10 years ago, eventually most of your old victims will reach the stage she/he will burst and then speak of the psychological or physical or economic wreckage you callously inflicted in their life. Let's say you've victimised 10 people, names you probably can't even remember and haven't thought about for years. Well it will take only one of those victims to have the right kind of brother or father or cousin or husband or old friend. It won't matter if it was 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, and it won't matter that you may not even remember the person you harmed or what you did. If what you did do was filth, that sort of person that your old victim finally blurted out to, or someone acting for him, will be coming for you on a day just like this.

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  14. I love this "flatter him" thing. No, we flatter you. You think you learned that trick from him. He knows this. He planted that there for you to do this.
    I wish there was some way of knowing how the sociopath in this woman's life reacted to all of this petty bullshit.
    Also, by playing up to all of these "flaws" of his (having to praise him, having to give him flattery, having to pander to his control needs), you are playing right into his hands. The fact that you are doing this through gritted teeth is probably quite delicious to him.

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  15. I had a relationship with an S. As it turned out, and it wasn't anything I did deliberately (in retaliation for his s'ness) at the time, I was able to kind of get the upper hand and I kind of screwed him up a little, just in instinctively reacting to his inconsistencies. I'd say I got him in the short term, however, longer term, I did feel guilty about this and perhaps that was his slick intention. Or just maybe it comes down that when you do avenge a perceive injustice that there may a price to pay. Especially if you are effective.

    And now, even though I now realize he was likely trying to take my to very high heights to drop me and watch me shatter in a million pieces like a bone china plate, I kind of feel sorry for him (and I guess honestly, for myself too). I feel bad that that is all he could ever be.

    So now I resolve to just forgive him and myself and I say a prayer for him in the wild case there is some god that is empathic and that he goes easy on him, now that he has passed.

    Saw an interesting documentary last night involving a sociopath (of the slightly more dangerous type) that I think offers a little reality around what we are talking about here. The high scene switching rate in the film is a little annoying, but it is a very interesting story.

    The name of it was:

    Dear Zachary: A Letter to a Son About His Father

    If you decide to watch it, don't read or research about it first. It is more effective that way. I post this film suggestion mainly for people who have empathy, a conscience, and who feel with their hearts.

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  16. I do, to some extent, sort of maybe understand the negative feelings a "victim" of sociopathy might go through, but I can't relate to them in that way. I've had to word this carefully, because to say "I get what they're going through, I just don't care though" would be a complete lie. I don't get what they're going through. When my girlfriend and I talk about our "history" and things we've been through, she knows that she can't do the whole "And remember when you said this? I was so sad, why did you say that to me?" thing, because I'm not going to be able to relate. On the same token, if she says "whenever I smell this cologne I think of you" she knows I don't completely connect with that idea either. However, if she tells me how she's feeling right now, in front of me, where I can see her and gauge her facial movements and things, then I can believe what she's saying and I can feel that love. If she's not there, if she's writing it in an email or a letter or even saying it on the phone, I can't connect to it in any way whatsoever. And it works like that for "victims" too; those I have supposedly wronged. In the moment, I know what I'm doing and what the consequences will be but it just doesn't register because I'm already past rationality (having said that, this by no means suggests that I become psychotic or anxious during these times. I'm perfectly calm and still). Afterwards, when I've done whatever I've done, I don't care, and I don't feel it, and I can't connect with it. It's dismissed. It happened, it's gone. That's it. No amount of "Look what you've done!" or "how could you hurt me like this?!" is going to change that, because we're out of the moment now, thanks, and quite frankly you're boring me with your incessant voice which has now become a monotonous and indistinguishable whine in my head.

    That make sense?

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  17. Why are there so many idiots here arguing against straw men? They automatically assume that being a sociopath makes anyone we interact with a victim; as if the only purpose of a sociopath is to abuse and victimize.

    If all of you agree that an empath can do just as much damage as a sociopath, then where do we draw the line between the victim and abuser? Like someone already said; actions speak louder than words.

    -

    "What would happen if you put a normal(capable of extreme mirroring) into a world of sociopaths."

    I would imagine that a similar result would be the outcome of a child who's been been raised by a sociopathic parent. Similar, but not identical, and it also depends upon the particular people involved, socio-economic situation, family structure, etc.

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  18. I wonder if this woman is jealous of her sociopath. Wishing she was more like him. I've heard this said to me before, and those who have said it have valiantly tried similar games, bless them.
    Ishtar - I agree with you. As you can see from my posts and probably some others, it's not all about abuser / victim. It can be - in some cases - about lover / devotee.

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  19. I know this may sound paranoid and delusional or worse lol, but I've come to realize that I have had a few S "friends". With the exception of the first one, I've never really gotten close to any of them, I suppose mainly because there was no sexual connection and just because their behavior was so odd to me. All were very intelligent (which I liked) but with little ability (or really no caring) to see how some of their actions might play out. It seems like they view the N as someone whose ego will always override their common sense. I've read that people with AS type symptoms tend to attract them.

    I have noticed that in the momemt with them, they can seem to have real feelings or can have some kind of empathy, if they feel the other person in front of them is, to put it in one word, true. And that i guess is what I have found a little confusing, but now I see it is just something that can never really amount to anything, especially for one who forms emotional attachments, is an N etc. This I bet is what attracts certain Ns to S's. Thinking they can turn that into something else or that it is something else.

    The person in the email sounds like (if its not an outright fake) someone who has been hurt who wants revenge. They want to be seen as smarter than the S. As the dominator and controller of the S. Hateful prideful people who have towering egos and are in denial. Manipulative, crying during lame BS, suicidal, and unable to accept feelings of having been hurt and having been vulnerable, they can't forgive.

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    1. I'm a woman with probably mild asperger syndrome. It runs in my family, and i'm definitely on the spectrum but I am able to hide it really well. I have strong emotions that come out erratically, but sometimes I feel more autistic. I also think of myself as a really "good" person

      I've attracted 2 psychopaths in the last couple of years. The first was a "not very evil" sociopath who fucked with me and my friends, and I loved him for five years. The second was more of an N, and I feel like more devastating but I was able to see his behavior after learning from the first one.

      I feel like I am an ideal victim because:


      1. I am a lonely and very trusting person with a semi- abusive background so the abusive relationship is attractive to me

      2. I am intelligent and interesting enough to hold conversations with them and not fall into a lot of traps and remain interesting to the N or S

      3. I can dissociate and see their tricks objectively. But at the same time, I can be a glutton for punishment

      Anyway, in both instances I was ultimately very damaged, but able to get out and look at the situation objectively. The most frustrating thing is trying to communicate the reality to mutual friends without seeming like the crazy one. Damn near impossible.

      Anyway, overall I feel sort of enlightened and strengthened by these relationships, but also sad that I can see the weakness is everyone else, who are so easily manipulated.

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  20. "This is why most sadistic/abusive sociopaths don't get old, they quietely vanish. You just don't get it do you. Sooner or later you are going to abuse someone who has a brother or a father or a cousin or an old friend, who will simply come for you one night, and you will join the long list of missing persons. This sort of thing is probably nearly as frequent as abusive sociopaths, because, whether by paying others or by their own hands, A LOT OF EMOTIONALLY NORMAL people out there, will take absolute revenge if you hurt the people they love. This WILL be how some of you finish up."

    in response to that, I almost cheered when i read this...except Im not waiting for the brother or father to go one night. IM GOING. And thankfully, being as "self important" as he thinks he is, he doesnt have the sense to realize how dangerous I am because Im a woman..."Hell hath no fury as a woman scorned"...and your day is coming, MY LOVE!

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  21. Dear Zachary: A Letter to a Son About His Father

    Coincidentally, I saw some guys on TV discussing this very film yesterday. They basically told the entire story, from start to finish, and even discussed sociopathy. It’s supposed to be very emotional, the kind of film that one of the guys explicitly stated that only “sociopaths” wouldn’t cry over. That made me chuckle. Given the film’s subject matter, sociopathy naturally got a fair bit of commentary as well. The reviewers didn’t know what they were talking about when they discussed it however. They just disseminated the usual stereotypes. You can tell they’d done zero research. Still, the film sounded interesting.

    The parents of the slain medical student handled it poorly, IMO. Coming to grips with who the mother of their grandchild was, they should have pretended to be nice and even forgiving of the mother and bided their time. They would naturally mourn, but they should have kept their anger secret. They should not have pursued custody of the child. They could even have pretended to stand by the woman, stubbornly proclaiming that they “knew in their hearts” that she was innocent. At a later time, they then should have killed the mother, covered their tracks and gotten hold of the infant. Bottom line, payback is payback.

    No one was or is saying revenge is inherently sociopathic. What I was and am saying is that no one can cling to the mantle of superiority based on something as ephemeral as morality, and that normals demonstrate this clearly when they go after revenge and call it justice. It doesn’t matter who started it. It only matters who ends it. This story also demonstrates how useless it sometimes is to play by the rules and depend entirely on the law for your revenge/justice.

    Google the title of the movie and read the Wikipedia article if you want a full synopsis of the movie.

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  22. Regarding Zachary, the parents themselves in the film expressed some regret at not having handled it differently. The father talks about his plan to grab the kid and flee the country and also of his plan to secretly murder the s/p (without his wife's knowledge) but not as payback, but only to save the kid from her.

    They had some bad luck. I thought they were pretty brave.

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  23. Father Dearest said,

    “Afterwards, when I've done whatever I've done, I don't care, and I don't feel it… it's gone. That's it. No amount of ‘Look what you've done!’… is going to change that…

    That make sense?”


    Completely. It is like a total absence of an emotion the other person is angry at you for not feeling. I remember noticing this for the first time in high school. I recall a teacher lecturing me over some rule I’d broken and he went on and on and somewhere in the middle of his diatribe, he noticed my lack of caring. He asked me about it and I told him the truth about what I was actually feeling for once. This spurred him on to greater heights of righteous fury. How could I not get it, he wondered? How could I not feel bad/guilty/something or other? I fought down the urge to smirk as I realized that would only make him angrier than I wanted him to be. I forget what I told him afterward. Some spiel I’m sure. I got out of that ok, but I left the room wondering why he thought telling me over and over to look at what I’d did was supposed to make me feel something it clearly wasn’t. Now I know.

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  24. They had some bad luck. I thought they were pretty brave.

    I have not seen the film myself, but I imagine they were brave. They also had the bad luck of being naive enough to trust “the system”. I also imagine (don’t know) that the father’s morals got in his way, at least enough to stop him from doing what was obviously necessary. See, in my view, what you call it is ultimately irrelevant. What matters are results. Payback, protection, who cares? The kid is dead. Do what needs doing, without apology or justification. (Well, at least not to yourself. Going thru the motions of apology is indeed sometimes useful.) Let other people pontificate and armchair quarterback (like me) to their heart’s content.

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  25. Daniel Birdick - It seems to make them incredibly angry, doesn't it? When they realise you're feeling nothing in response to what they're feeling. You're right though, often the best thing to do is to lie and pretend you're feeling what they want. Just give them what they're asking for; it's just easier, and it's more likely to come back to you in a convenient way.

    Do you find you have people in your life that you simply won't lie to in that sense? You might tell small lies but you have made a conscious decision to just "be yourself" as much as you can (as far as you're aware of it)?

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  26. Father Dearest said, “Do you find you have people in your life that you simply won't lie to in that sense? You might tell small lies but you have made a conscious decision to just ‘be yourself’ as much as you can (as far as you're aware of it)?”

    No I don’t. I used to think I did, until recently. My close friend and my 15 year old niece were the two people I thought I wouldn’t lie to until I did. One was a medium-ish series of lies to the friend, the other was a biggish lie to the niece. I do speak somewhat freely with my niece because I am trying to show her the folly of always acting on her anger and that there are more subtle ways of getting what she wants. My closest friend is a woman and I have shown her my colder side, which she was ok with, but I know how far to go with her. I know where her “stay the hell away from me you sick fuck” line is and I do not cross it by telling her some of the things I truly think and feel. Otherwise, I do not have anyone in my life that I feel would be thoroughly understanding of my most honest feelings. Then again, doesn’t everyone do that though? No matter how close you are to someone, doesn’t everyone keep certain things back because they know the other person just wouldn’t get it?

    Why do you ask? Is The Woman your ‘I can be me’ person?

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  27. I think the father's "problem" was his sense of morality. Also, had he done it, he would be in prison and maybe even regretting having taken a life. Not a good ending for him. He could not be absolutely pre-certain she was going to kill the kid anyway, which is the main reason he considered offing her and really regretting it in retrospect.

    I think they should have grabbed him and ran, which also would not have been technically the easiest thing to do as explained in the film. What seems to have set her off was the childs rejection of her with all the love he was receiving from his fathers parents. I have a feeling they really didn't know exactly what they were dealing with in her.

    In the end though, they are having some effect on changing the legal system having pointed out it's mistakes and this will likely make this a little harder to happen again.

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  28. The other good result of the tragedy imo is the film it yielded itself. It should be viewed by anyone who has any romantic notions of sociopathy or think it is something to aspire to. For an N, it is nothing more than poison.

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  29. DB - I know where her “stay the hell away from me you sick fuck” line is

    I know this feeling well. Perhaps The Woman is the absolute closest I can get to being myself, but what you described sounds like how I am with her. Once or twice I have tested the touch paper by hinting at what I want to say, but I know her reactions and I know when she is just trying to get me to shut up, so I do. A difficult (thought I thought hilarious) conversation with her yesterday regarding my stance on having sex with a woman on her period was one of those moments.
    But no, I think with her and with my best friend, I can be myself as far as I am aware of myself, if that makes sense. I can control what I am aware of, but some things slip through the cracks (say, when I'm tired or angry) and I know that those two people in my life won't run away. And if they do, I know they have the faith to come back - and the fact that I no longer respond to that with emotional terrorism and intense mind games "for funsies", tells me that I must consider them important. But that's how I understand myself; it seems to me that other people have an intrinsic understanding of themselves. They can wake up and think "I'm feeling sad today". I however, will wake up and do something that tells me that I'm sad, rather than instantly be able to identify it.
    The reason I asked was just through curiosity I suppose. I wonder how close sociopaths can be with their loved ones.

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  30. Aspie -

    The father may not have necessarily ended up in prison. I don’t know what the murder clearance rate is in Canada, but in America the last I heard it hovered around 60%, which roughly means that 40% go unsolved. Those are fairly decent odds if you plan carefully. And going by how you have described the killer, absconding with the kid seems like only half a solution. She sounds like the type that would never have given up. She would have to go. Even if the father went to jail, at least the kid would be away from the killer mother. That’s still kind of a win. Emphasis on kind of.

    Bottom line, the ends justify the means. I imagine it would have been easier to live with regret than it has been to live with the loss of both your son and your grandson. The blood thirsty normals who have responded in the last couple of threads completely understand where I am coming from, don’t they?

    As to your last comment… my only opinion is that people should only “aspire” to be their best selves, whatever that is. Aspiring to be anything else is a waste.

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  31. FD said, “it seems to me that other people have an intrinsic understanding of themselves..”

    They can identify their emotions easier. On average, they have more of them and they feel them with greater intensity. Apparently. But I don’t know if they really know themselves more. I think most of them are pretty clueless actually. I say most because of course, there are brilliant exceptions.

    I’ll admit, I often have a difficult time differentiating between emotions as well. Sometimes I can tell and sometimes I just plain can’t so I ignore it and move on. I figure if it is important enough for me to figure out, the emotion will remain and reveal its source in due course. I am curious though. What do you mean by doing something that tells you what you are feeling? Are you literally taking an action, the kind that you can easily associate with an emotion?

    I was tempted to go on a rant about not being a sociopath (hate the label these days, not pathological, etc ad nauseum) but meh, me thinks I doth protest too much on this, so I’ll let it go. I’ll just reiterate that I know I can feel positive and affectionate feelings for people because I’ve done it. Is that love, is that closeness? Well maybe on the former but not so much on the latter. I can’t and won’t speak for anyone else, but even the people I have felt positively towards, I do not consider them “close” to me. Never have. I have always been on the outside of this humanity thing. That doesn’t mean I can’t have a great time with folks though and in the end, isn’t that what matters? Being honest with loved ones is overrated anyway.

    What do you think mon amie?

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  32. I think, given that the father was a decent moral person, not a calculating killer or revenge artist, and not a dummy either, the best bet would have been to steal the kid and hide him. The S would not have been able to find him if done right (they had done things earlier to fool her and were successful) and it would have bought time as her future was prison regardless. He mentioned that he knew he would be the first person the police came for had he done it. And perhaps he could not have been able to deny it. His main concern was for his wife.


    I think another interesting fact in the story is that everyone who met her when she was going with the father thought she was a wackjob. Just how she would say contradictory things and other oddish S like behavior. I think the lesson there is, if you see some psychopath hanging with someone you care about, see if others feel the same and get numbers and then do an intervention. There are non violent ways to stop an S mainly because there nature leaves them exposed to it.

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  33. DB - Oh I completely agree. Also, just as an aside to your would-be rant - sociopathy is almost completely subjective these days. My diagnoses serve to me almost as a personal, invisible "get out of jail free" card (actually... this works in real life, too, as I learned at the back end of last year).

    The idea of love and affection is indeed a strange one that I think most "normals" even fail to comprehend. The first time I felt love - or perhaps it was infatuation - I was fiercely angry with the person who had done this to me. I didn't like it, and I wanted it gone as soon as possible. This also ties in neatly with the emotional confusion; not fully understanding what your feeling is, taking a wild guess, and moving on. I've been known to feel incredibly anxious to the point of panic in the past because I was tired, and very hungry, and these two feelings together confused me and I thought I was just about to lose my mind. I was 17, when that happened. Fresh-faced and with only a childhood behavioural disorder under my belt...

    Yes, it does sometimes feel like I'm taking cues from myself, and I do this in order to mete out my day, on hard days - to make it bearable -if that makes sense. I wake up, I might snap at my girlfriend for waking up before me because I see this as some kind of underhand technique or whatever bullshit my brain is firing out that day (I don't control her - the snapping really is just a "Oh FOR FUCK'S SAKE" and it lasts a second - I can see that to be genuinely angry at her would be a method of control, and I'm not interested in that with her) - that anger sets the momentum for how the rest of the day is run.
    I'm explaining this in a very clumsy way.

    Although - whilst others might be able to feel more emotions than you or I (yes, I included you in this squalid, grotty group - you can be a tourist, if you wish), I think we feel some emotions with much greater intensity than normals. I know I return so often to thoughts of love, but it's a relatively exciting thing for me, because it's a feeling I thought I wasn't allowed to have. See I think I feel love much harder and more fiercely than others.
    I don't understand married couples, who seemed to have settled into a routine of banality, because my love doesn't seem to settle in that way. For me, it's all about possession (kind of), infatuation, adoration and heightened, tense passion. I wouldn't really have it any other way.

    ALSO - some of the people have been making comments that are boring the hell out of me. Can you stop assuming we're all rapists, paedophiles and sexual predators? You've been misinformed. I may be a sociopath but I'm not a fucking demon.

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    1. That's a lot of explanation.

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  34. I can’t and won’t argue the logistics Aspie since I did not see the film. You could be right about kidnapping being the shortest path, having seen the flick. I don’t know. Although I think the moral mindset can be a hindrance as this story so clearly reveals, I can also say that I’m sure the parents did the best they were capable of under those particular circumstances.

    “I think the lesson there is, if you see some psychopath hanging with someone you care about, see if others feel the same and get numbers and then do an intervention.”

    You know, I am facing something slightly similar with my female friend. She is seriously dating someone who I suspect has been less than honest with her. I think he is in some way playing her and she is too in love to see it. I have spoken with our mutual friends about my suspicions and they concur. Something is rotten in Denmark and it aint the herring. They have suggested doing a kind of intervention with her, but I have told them I know for certain it would be a waste and a potential friendship killer. My friend will not tolerate any kind of intervention. Even a slight suggestion that she is moving too fast by our other friends has sent her into a tailspin of angry denial. One of them strongly believes in this honesty business, but I convinced her that her need to tell it like it is will not only be a waste in this instance but will actually be kind of selfish. So we’re all keeping quiet for now. I’m planning on doing some background checks myself once I get the money for it, just to see what comes up. Bottom line, some will listen to reason, but many will not. That’s the nature of the emotional beast, isn’t it? They don’t say love is blind for nuthin.

    “There are non violent ways to stop an S…”

    No doubt. My point is not that one should immediately move to violence, but that one should be willing to seriously consider all methods when dealing with an obstacle and not to let emotion or ethics preemptively place certain options out of bounds.

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  35. ALSO - some of the people have been making comments that are boring the hell out of me. Can you stop assuming we're all rapists, paedophiles and sexual predators? You've been misinformed. I may be a sociopath but I'm not a fucking demon."

    I'm sure most of the misinformed have mainly come here to discover methods of usurping their formerly beloved sociopath. I'd be interested to see how taking the OP's 3-step method will pan out (or rather, how badly they will fail).

    I've read through some of M.E.'s posts entertaining possible tactics, and found most of them to be quite laughable.

    The only tangible way of obtaining any sort of "victory" is to simply move on with your life by showing that you are more resilient to the emotional effects of manipulation. A person's who's goal is to draw emotional reactions from others will only find more entertainment at any attempt to engage in the same type of behaviour. This is far from "revenge" or "justice." The fact that one would go to such lengths shows the extent to which the manipulator as affected them, and if I were them I would be reveling at the thought of it.

    If you call that justice, then you are only further deluding yourself.

    -

    "This sort of thing is probably nearly as frequent as abusive sociopaths, because, whether by paying others or by their own hands, A LOT OF EMOTIONALLY NORMAL people out there, will take absolute revenge if you hurt the people they love. This WILL be how some of you finish up."

    Thanks for the warning? But, you're begging the question and basing your argument on a false assumption (i.e. that sociopath = evil). There's no point in entertaining a discussion with someone who can't even formulate a coherent argument, or contribute any new insight on a given topic.

    Enjoy your "justice."

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  36. This whole thing reads like an amateur sequel to "The Tell-Tale Heart"

    'Upon the eighth night I was more than usually cautious in opening the door. A watch's minute hand moves more quickly than did mine. Never before that night had I felt the extent of my own powers, of my sagacity. I could scarcely contain my feelings of triumph. To think that there I was opening the door little by little, and he not even to dream of my secret deeds or thoughts.'

    'And now have I not told you that what you mistake for madness is but over-acuteness of the senses? now, I say, there came to my ears a low, dull, quick sound, such as a watch makes when enveloped in cotton. I knew that sound well too. It was the beating of the old man's heart. It increased my fury as the beating of a drum stimulates the soldier into courage. '

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  37. No offense but I think the idea of considering S's as generally evil and soul-less may be a helpful way to think of them, as N's. But not in the sense that you want to dehumanize them so then you can let out some anger or an excuse to express a sadistic side. But more in the way that it's just nothing you want to play around with. Even if you were willing to filthy yourself with hatred and anger and thoughts of revenge, the S cannot feel it, at least not in any way that will be satisfying to you. It's a complete waste of time and energy. Their cortisol will be at a nice low level while yours will be high. You are probably in fact helping them. Best just to chalk it up to living in the world/forgive whatever you have to do and move on imp. If you see one, be intelligent, stay away and warn those you care about.

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  38. "Thanks for the warning? But, you're begging the question and basing your argument on a false assumption (i.e. that sociopath = evil)."

    Not true, the author of the comment always qualifed his/her statements as "abusive/sadistic sociopaths". So if you are sociopathic but aren't drawn to sadisticly abusing vulnerable people you win the trust of, then I suppose you can breath easy :o)

    "There's no point in entertaining a discussion with someone who can't even formulate a coherent argument, or contribute any new insight on a given topic."

    You obviously saw a point.

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  39. "So if you are sociopathic but aren't drawn to sadisticly abusing vulnerable people you win the trust of, then I suppose you can breath easy"


    Are there sociopaths that don't engage in this type of behavior?

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  40. Birdick wrote:
    "They have suggested doing a kind of intervention with her, but I have told them I know for certain it would be a waste and a potential friendship killer. My friend will not tolerate any kind of intervention. Even a slight suggestion that she is moving too fast by our other friends has sent her into a tailspin of angry denial."

    Birdick - good, you care about this womam, and this is a subject you know more about than your other friends, the real issue is how do you take action in terms of friendship politics. My advice would be to trust your instincts but leave the door open to the possibility you could be wrong about this guy. Get a few of your mutual friends together, lay out your fears, and then suggest a couple of suspicious you have about the guy that could be resolved by a private investigator. Then all of you chip in the funds to pay to have your suspicions checked.
    Either way, if the guy checks out or if your suspicions are verified, even if she is initially angry your friend will be deeply moved by what you and her other friends did.

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  41. "Not true, the author of the comment always qualifed his/her statements as "abusive/sadistic sociopaths". So if you are sociopathic but aren't drawn to sadisticly abusing vulnerable people you win the trust of, then I suppose you can breath easy :o)"

    I'm sure qualifying a statement makes you an expert at identifying the qualifier. There are many factors that come into play such as the supposed "victim"'s level of paranoia and emotional state. Most often than not, I find myself hurting those around me without even realizing it, and then find myself being called "abusive" or "sadistic" because of it.

    "There's no point in entertaining a discussion with someone who can't even formulate a coherent argument, or contribute any new insight on a given topic."

    You obviously saw a point.


    No, not really :)

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  42. FD, I can relate to what you said about dismissing the past. It always seems so much like a dream, only easier to recall useful details. I can recount exactly what happened better than most, but the memories are all lifeless, almost formless. The only things that ever stand out are details useful in the present moment, or individual, specific scenes that I force myself to recall. The past serves no purpose for me aside from being a reservoir of knowledge and experience to draw from.

    When I say that, I don't mean it's useful for pondering, because it isn't. I can't relive my past. I think about what details I want to remember, and I remember them. Simple as that. Just details. Nothing more.

    When other people bring up their past emotions, I just get frustrated, especially if they're trying to get me to feel bad about something. I try to deflect the conversation, or cast blame back at them, because my memory is better and my logic is sharper, so it's usually easy to twist things around on them. It doesn't always work, though, and that's usually when I wind up getting nasty.

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  43. You seem regressed enough to attempt to outwit a type of person that couldn't care less. If it were me you did this too, I'd let you play your meaningless game through.

    Then when you have achieved your goal, whatever it may be, I would relish the fact that you've opened another part of yourself to me without me having to pick at it.

    I'd exploit it for what it is. An empath, not driven by curiosity, but driven by revenge. Revenge being the product of pain, envy, and anger. By making this, you've actually just listed weaknesses for exploitation.

    In the end, all you've managed to accomplished is nothing but reveal your inner nature. Something I would relish if it were me in exchange for your "friend".

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  44. It is possible for some of the "problems" of a romantic partner to rub off and infect the other. There are situations where one might need to manipulate a sociopath-- for example, if the sociopath is a spouse and you have children. Then there is the revenge aspect, you can push an empath too far, weak creatures that we are with all those feelings that can be roused in to passion.

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  45. Hello, I'm a recently identified INFJ.
    Learning what that means has given me such a positive outlook on life, but enough about that.

    Before I learned of my strong empathetic tendencies, about two months ago, I came across a true "wolf" in the midst of our "woods". He is someone I met in high-school, and have hanged out with off and on until this event.

    Although in group settings he always comes across as a charismatic people person, many times when it was just him and me I would spiral into a depression (with suciadal thoughts) after spending time with me.

    The last time I saw him, I noticed his facial expressions almost always looked forced. And I noticed how he would seemingly accidentally be able to say just what was needed to fill me with self-doubt.

    I thought maybe he was experiencing a depression and needed someone to talk to. He did not respond well to my serious attempt to help. He started telling me this "story" he said he was "writing" about a serial killer that will kill the psychiatrist containing him. Then he started to describe coffins and... awful things about people in them. He said there are four coffins already, and there will be another.

    While describing death, I was able to read his emotions for the first time. What I saw terrified me. He was becoming very very excited. I was trying with all my willpower to look at if I was agreeing with his points and level of energy.

    I did that because I literally felt like if I stopped talking with him, or agreeing he was going to attack me. I felt like I was learning the rules to some elaborate mind game I never noticed before.

    When I saw him for what he was I was certain he knew that I could see his backstage. Now I'm not so sure, but I lived in fear for several days following the incident because of this.

    What really surprised me was that he said he thought I was the most like him of all our friends, and that he could teach me things. But I immediately felt that he was the exact opposite of what I am.



    Do not toy with psychpaths for your own enjoyment. I was forced to do it, and it was the most negative vibe producing event of my life.

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  46. More people need to be on http://sociopath-community.com/

    !!! it used to be connected to this blog but was disconnected over a year ago. We need fresh blood and lots of interesting things have happened recently (relates to kiwifar.ms drama: https://archive.is/M2tXa) that will go down in the forum's history! Be sure to check out http://www.psychforums.com/antisocial-personality/ too, as some of its regulars are regulars on SC too!

    Goddamn ME refused to reconnect the blog to the forum so we SC goers will just have to spam advertisements for the forum in the comments section. ;)

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