Monday, June 16, 2014

Reading people

I liked this comment from a while ago:

Being able to read people to an irregularly deep degree isn't exclusively the province of sociopaths and headcases, they're just the poster children because there's something about the juxtaposition of understanding and predatory apathy that appeals to sheep. Sort of like why people are fascinated by the myth of the vampire, as long as it can be tamed and made 'comfortable' to their understanding of the world(*coughTwilightcough*).

But no. In my experience, people dislike being understood because there's always a chasm of difference separating the person they project themselves as being from the person they really are. A man I know, to pull an example from my hat, wants to be seen as suave, genius in his chosen field of study, worldly but still passionate about geeky things, a great gentleman with regards to women, etc. He doesn't want to be regularly acquainted with someone who sees him for the flaws he so desperately ignores or explains away underneath the exterior projection. They always want to project those flaws on you if they're afraid you understand them: I've had problems in the past with one specific group of my friends who has known me a long time and also is aware of at least some of my aptitude for reading people's patterns to an uncomfortably accurate degree. I've only ever had this problem with this one group, but reliably, whenever I would be seen as getting close to a member of the group, certain individuals would go out of their way to 'poison the well' so to speak and cast doubt on me, belittle me, or do whatever it took to keep that person away from me. Had I ever displayed malicious intent towards any of my close friends? Nah. I hadn't used them and discarded them, screwed them over, or done anything socially or morally unacceptable to them. But nonetheless they would cast me as a coward, deceiver, 'weird', and so forth as a means of isolating me because they feared me, and that I would bring their whole game crashing down if I got too involved. That's the conundrum I found myself in, with them: I made certain that they respected me, but as Machiavelli so famously made into an axiom, the only way to do that reliably is fear if you can't elicit love.

I think it ties into that primal instinct of 'us and them', where 'us' is the people playing the game 'by the rules', so to speak. The rules are that people want to feel good, enjoy humor and having their ego scratched, and make memories with other people that they can point to, whenever they want to reminisce about how awesome they are. Anyone who doesn't play the game, or who plays it differently, is 'them'. That includes people who see that most of the game is bullshit posturing, If you expose yourself as someone who doesn't observe a particular set of rules, the traditional social response is persecution and isolation. That's how groups maintain themselves, from street gangs (where the persecution usually comes in nine millimeters) to the social elite.

131 comments:

  1. No, people usually want to be liked, they love it if people they like show them sympathy and benevolance.
    They do not like to be tolerated. Once feeling the socio antipathy trust is lost. Why should normo be grateful that socio won't behave worse?
    Socios overestimate the value of beeing able to please. Negative experiences weigh much more.

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  2. Sociopaths aren't the only ones who construct masks. Everyone has one of some sort. Without them we would all die of despair. These social groups we form in which we buck ourselves up are necessary for our mental health, not some kind of ego stroking. It''s how people survive a random existence in a pointless world. If you cannot join the dance and learn the steps, what good are you?

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    1. Ahhhh, that was brilliantly said.

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    7. love VEGITOPATH's concept of the "MAREEGE UND BABEES". It is the part oTEEHEEE BABEESB e split off from our own consciousness because it is too TEEHEE LOVE AND MAREEEGE ZHAWQ WEELLL BE UN WITNESS TEEHEEEased on ouTEEHEEEhow to "map" the MAREEGE AND BABEES sides of new acquaintances. However they rarely employ this talent for nefarious purposesMAREEGE AND BABEES ow exposed (or have been threatened TEEHEEEEEEE I LOOV THUM SOO NOT TEEHEEE) tend to have a reflexive defensive reaction to people who have INFEEREEOR GENETEECS TEEHEEE THURFORE WEELLL NOT MAKE VEGITOPATH BABEES TEEHEE

      TEEHEEEEEEE MONEECA MAREED ME ALREADY BOOT UKAN STEELLLL ENGAGED TEEHEEE utsiders might seem innocuous, but has pierced you toTEEHEEE by propping up your wounded BOTTOM TEEHEE. The insightful person is more likely to stay present with you and not immediately pretend they did not see what you both know that they saw. They aren't TEHEEEEEE BOOT THEY MAREEEEou what they have seen.

      In contrast- the VEGITOPATH becomes obsessed with knowing every last detail about you as a way of learning the "MAREEGE AND BABEES" part of you that you hide TEEHEEEE THEY WUNT TOO MAREE YUU AND MAKE YOUUUU THUR HOUSEWIEF TEEHEE UND also for the purposes of inducing your PWEGNUNT and MORNEENG SEEKNESS TEEHEE when you deviate from their plan to make you OFFSPREENG TEEEHEE.

      The gift of having your life turned upside down by a VEGITOPATH is in having your "MAREEGE AND BABEES" self exposed. When this happens, your comfortable illusions about your ESS TEE DEE'S TEHEEE are shattered. This experience will either destroy you or strengthen you, depending upon your own resistance to the MAREEGE TO A VEGITOPATH WEETH SUPEEREEOR GENETEECS TEEHEE

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    8. I love VEGITOPATH's concept of the "MAREEGE UND BABEES". It is the part oTEEHEEE BABEESB e split off from our own consciousness because it is too TEEHEE LOVE AND MAREEEGE ZHAWQ WEELLL BE UN WITNESS TEEHEEEased on ouTEEHEEEhow to "map" the MAREEGE AND BABEES sides of new acquaintances. However they rarely employ this talent for nefarious purposesMAREEGE AND BABEES ow exposed (or have been threatened TEEHEEEEEEE I LOOV THUM SOO NOT TEEHEEE) tend to have a reflexive defensive reaction to people who have INFEEREEOR GENETEECS TEEHEEE THURFORE WEELLL NOT MAKE VEGITOPATH BABEES TEEHEE

      TEEHEEEEEEE MONEECA MAREED ME ALREADY BOOT UKAN STEELLLL ENGAGED TEEHEEE utsiders might seem innocuous, but has pierced you toTEEHEEE by propping up your wounded BOTTOM TEEHEE. The insightful person is more likely to stay present with you and not immediately pretend they did not see what you both know that they saw. They aren't TEHEEEEEE BOOT THEY MAREEEEou what they have seen.

      In contrast- the VEGITOPATH becomes obsessed with knowing every last detail about you as a way of learning the "MAREEGE AND BABEES" part of you that you hide TEEHEEEE THEY WUNT TOO MAREE YUU AND MAKE YOUUUU THUR HOUSEWIEF TEEHEE UND also for the purposes of inducing your PWEGNUNT and MORNEENG SEEKNESS TEEHEE when you deviate from their plan to make you OFFSPREENG TEEEHEE.

      The gift of having your life turned upside down by a VEGITOPATH is in having your "MAREEGE AND BABEES" self exposed. When this happens, your comfortable illusions about your ESS TEE DEE'S TEHEEE are shattered. This experience will either destroy you or strengthen you, depending upon your own resistance to the MAREEGE TO A VEGITOPATH WEETH SUPEEREEOR GENETEECS TEEHEE

      Delete
  3. I love Jung's concept of the "Shadow". It is the part of our identity we split off from our own consciousness because it is too threatening to the persona we access (constructed to a greater or lesser degree based on our need to calculate vs be sincere) .To have our shadows exposed feels like an annihilation of self- and the sociopath knows this. You are correct- a few select individuals who are not sociopaths seem to have an eerie knowledge of how to "map" the Shadow sides of new acquaintances. However they rarely employ this talent for nefarious purposes. But it is a formidable skill set to have- and anyone who has had their own Shadow exposed (or have been threatened by exposure) tend to have a reflexive defensive reaction to people who have developed this gift- sociopathic or otherwise.

    The best "tell" I know for whether someone with this gift is sociopathic or simply insightful is their use of flattery whenever you look at them funny for saying something that to outsiders might seem innocuous, but has pierced you to the core. The sociopath has made a note of your reaction and tries to switch the subject by propping up your wounded ego. The insightful person is more likely to stay present with you and not immediately pretend they did not see what you both know that they saw. They aren't necessarily interested in learning more- they happen to just reflect back to you what they have seen.

    In contrast- the sociopath becomes obsessed with knowing every last detail about you as a way of learning the "Shadow" part of you that you hide even from yourself. They want to know what buttons to push should they ever have the need to ruin you, and also for the purposes of inducing your confusion and anxieties when you deviate from their plan to make you one of their sycophants.

    The gift of having your life turned upside down by a sociopath is in having your "Shadow" self exposed. When this happens, your comfortable illusions about your identity are shattered. This experience will either destroy you or strengthen you, depending upon your own resistance to the lessons you chose or refuse in the aftermath of this traumatic experience.

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    1. Wise words Mach.

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    2. The best "tell" I know for whether someone with this gift is sociopathic or simply insightful is their use of flattery whenever you look at them funny for saying something that to outsiders might seem innocuous, but has pierced you to the core. The sociopath has made a note of your reaction and tries to switch the subject by propping up your wounded ego."

      Mach, you are very insightful! If I ever thought I needed a therapist, I'd seek you out first.~

      I do this *all the time.* I store up the weaknesses of others like nuggets, but I don't use them until I "need" the ammo. In my real-life interactions, I don't even do it consciously; It is just the way I operate. And you're right: I do change the subject quickly, or immediately seek to assuage the person's ego when I cut too close to the core. Unless I want to cut them down, that is. Then I am deliberate and ruthless with how I use all that ammo I've stored up.

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    3. So what "shadow" does a sociopath have?

      I always knew I was a scheming bastard and needed to keep that hidden.

      I knew I was hypercompetitive to the point of craziness. I didn't care.

      When I talked with shrinks, the sense I got was they were shocked at how much I knew about my shadow (but didn't care).

      I remember reading about Freud's psychology and thinking, "what is my conscience?" I figured it had to be my sense of compulsion to follow my own code of behavior - which can wax or wane in its severity. James Fallon talks about this - he had an OCD period where he was obsessed with committing sin.

      Hence, I'm not sure that the "shadow" construct applies to sociopaths and would be curious to hear what you think.

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    4. I see my socio's shadow in a mirror...literally. She keeps a mirror sitting on top of her desk so she can look out the window behind her. However, I sit under that window. When I look back I see those eyes fixed on mine in the mirror. Aside from the creepiness factor and the Medusa overtones, I know that she is watching me with all the hunger of an empty nester going through menopause. Motherhood has been a prop for her as much as membership in the Mormon Church was. She will be of any service to me she can. She will help me, run errands for me, feed me, entertain me, comfort me and all the things a mother does for her child. Except that I am not a child. She has three children and they all live on different continents. She is on her third husband and well on her way to number four.

      I asked her recently if she was experiencing empty nester syndrome and it was the closest she ever came to coming unhinged by anything I've ever said to her. And I tell her she's going to hell on a regular basis. I take that back. I did tell her she had a hair out of place once, and her head almost exploded. It was not pretty. I had to remind her she should laugh at that sort of thing. There is the right time to punch the door to the stall in the ladies room and a time to just laugh and take out your comb.

      Penny Wise

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    5. Sociopaths have little need to hide from themselves so I'd say they have a smaller than average shadow. They consciously hide their negative traits from others, though so it might appear bigger to an outsider.

      That said, I have an unsubstantiated theory that sociopaths may have as much latent emotionality as a borderline, but have figured out how to trigger a kill switch for it. If that's the case, then the sociopath's emotions are their shadow. But I'm no scientist so don't quote me on that.

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    6. MachEm, I think you may be on to something. When my socio acquaintance was grieving the loss of her mother, she "fell down the steps" more than once. Ordinarily, this is the most tightly controlled person I have ever met. She sometimes tries to force intimacy with other people based on shared loss and it falls flat. But nothing too out of the ordinary. Probably no one else notices this but me.

      Penny Wise

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    7. "Sociopaths have little need to hide from themselves so I'd say they have a smaller than average shadow. They consciously hide their negative traits from others, though so it might appear bigger to an outsider."

      So then Jung has nothing to offer sociopaths?

      Say Ted Bundy or the Iceman wants to do Jungian therapy. What will it consist of?

      Ted Bundy will sit there and brag about killing people in all kinds of different ways. He might be ashamed to admit that he was a sexual pervert - so I guess there's some shadow there.

      The funny thing about sociopaths is that they rapidly come to terms with their shadow.

      E.g. I call some shrinks up, thinking I could use some help with social anxiety or procrastination. I explain I'm somewhere out there on the psychopathic scale, and that I've done a bunch of illegal things - but that I'm not a danger to them. Yet a bunch of them reject me as a patient (out of fear). At first I feel a bit ashamed about that (as if it is my fault), but then I realize that I didn't choose to be this way (nor did they choose to feel afraid). Their actions, if anything, say bad things about them as therapists, not me. And soon it doesn't bother me. In fact, if I can use my experience getting rejected to get sympathy from a woman (so that I can get what I want), I trot the story out for maximum effect.

      So as much as Russel Williams felt ashamed for his perversions, if he could figure out how to turn it to his (or his wife's) advantage, he would.

      So where's the shadow?

      Delete
    8. “Sociopaths have little need to hide from themselves so I'd say they have a smaller than average shadow. They consciously hide their negative traits from others, though so it might appear bigger to an outsider.”

      Yes. I do hide my negative traits from others- until they cross me.

      We also mirror the people we are with, so we become much like them. We are exceptionally good at it. It doesn’t feel like an act; we are being “sincere”. Consequently, affinities develops. But the bonds we create are short-lived. Our friendships have no depth, because sustaining them is a burden, unless you are providing something we want. Because we do not require "emotional support", or enjoy openly sharing our struggles and weaknesses with others (it makes us feel vulnerable), we are not seeking from you what most people desire out of friendship.

      We can be anything to anyone... until we get bored or fed-up. Until you demand of us emotional resources that we are unwilling or unable to invest or commit. Until the situation ceases to benefit us.

      Delete
    9. “If that's the case, then the sociopath's emotions are their shadow.”

      Could you elaborate more on this, please?

      “The funny thing about sociopaths is that they rapidly come to terms with their shadow.”

      YES. But it would depend how you qualify “shadow”. The perversion, penchant for cruelty, callousness and manipulation in which we consciously engage, and for which we experience *no real guilt*, might be described as a shadow aspect of one’s personality. I never lose sleep over my conduct, regardless of how I may violate my own ethical code (And I invariably do, in spite of my best intentions, because I am not emotionally impacted by doing something that violates standards).

      Emotionally, I don’t care about your trauma or anguish, *because I cannot feel it.* This doesn’t mean I dislike you, wish you harm, or that I don’t care for *you*. I just cannot feel your pain. And I cannot sustain the emotions of long-standing, efficacious guilt or shame. I would go so far to say that we not only “come to terms with our shadow”- we secretly revel in it, because we understand the power it may accord us over you, under the right circumstances.

      Delete
    10. “That said, I have an unsubstantiated theory that sociopaths may have as much latent emotionality as a borderline, but have figured out how to trigger a kill switch for it."

      YES. I call it the “fuck-you” switch, LOL. I can turn it on at will. I don’t know about the borderline connection though. They’re all nuts. ;)

      I have never been diagnosed with a personality disorder- (just ODD as a teen), but I know have a lot of psychopathic traits. My personality has a distinct Jekyll/Hyde construct. The Jekyll part of me is altruistic and kind. I am the chair of an organization that does a LOT of good within my community. Being of service gives me a pleasant narcissistic boost. The Hyde part is vicious, and leaves a trail of trauma and self-destruction in her wake.

      The chasm that exists between these two distinct aspects of my personality seems unbridgeable; I cannot fathom how to fully integrate them.

      Coming here and being a trenchant, demeaning asshole has proved ridiculously entertaining, but it’s just another way of rationalizing and thereby feeding my antisocial behaviour. I have often told myself: "they're here because they're asking for it. They want what I can give them- whether they know it or not. I am "helping" them get stronger."

      If I don’t starve this shit, it will continue to grow like a cancer. That I like. That I wish to nurture and feed because it isn’t *all* bad. The problem is that I can’t seem to prevent it from taking over. That shadow will hijack my life if I don’t keep it in check.- and I am prone to overindulgence in everything. I can’t seem to channel or sublimate it without it consuming me altogether.

      I strive to keep it all under control, but my irresponsibility causes me to behave in erratic, inconsistent ways that other people have to mop up after. And I do admit to playing that.

      I have started a “trigger journal” at my husband’s request, in an effort to recognize my triggers, in which I spew all of the vitriol onto paper instead of vocalizing it and leaving a trail of pain in my wake. But I am inconsistent with it- as with everything else.

      My mother used to recite this nursery rhyme to me as a child, because she thought it epitomized my character:

      There was a little girl,
      Who had a little curl,
      Right in the middle of her forehead.
      When she was good,
      She was very, very good,
      But when she was bad, she was horrid

      TLDR version: I need to parse the good from the bad, and I am honestly not sure how to do this.

      Delete
    11. > If I don’t starve this shit, it will continue to grow like a
      > cancer.

      If you keep starving it, will it eventually go away completely? Or will you hit a point where it dosen't get any smaller and starving it causes other problems?

      Delete
    12. Yes and no. You can experience the emotions in situations, but how often you do, how long it lasts, and how strong it is is lacking. Many times you don't feel anything at all (good or bad) while at others you feel "something", but it is less than normal in its potency. Sometimes it can be minimal, to the point where you are unsure what it is you are feeling - it is vague or unclear. As for turning it off-on at will, not really. It doesn't work that way. Sometimes when you are deep "in character" and are exposed to an intense response from others, there is feedback that can trigger something momentarily. Outside of that, you either do, or don't. Your mileage can vary.

      Delete
    13. Don't starve it. redirect it. You have a lot of energy, motivation and will in addition to your destructive impulses. The first three things are good. The destructive impulses can be good if you only exercise them with self discipline. After all, Jesus Christ went into the temple and knocked over everyone's stuff in a giant fit of destructive rage. But he did it to self righteous douchebags who were profiting off of spiritual stuff that wasn't supposed to be commercial. Not saying that you have to be Jesus, but he certainly had aggressive impulses and 2000 years later people think he's the savior of humanity.

      Delete
    14. If you keep starving it, will it eventually go away completely? Or will you hit a point where it dosen't get any smaller and starving it causes other problems?

      I've been mulling this over. What kinds of problems? If you mean terminal boredom, or the tendency to overreact aggressively when a stranger dares criticize me, or even look at me in the wrong way, then I fail to see how it could possibly get worse. ;)

      But I think I understand what you're driving at. If I were to starve it altogether, I think I would feel like a disingenuous, emasculated sod who wasn't being true to herself.

      I don't have it in me to commit even partial suicide. I like myself too much. I am too attached to my dirty little secret thoughts to snuff them out altogether.

      Good question, person who knows me better than he should. :p

      Delete
    15. Mach, you sound *exactly* like my SO. :)

      That's good advice. I wish I knew how.

      I try, but I always degenerate. I don't seem to be able to learn from my mistakes.

      Delete
    16. @ C 10:02


      By “it” I meant her antisocial behavior.

      Assume A is antisocial and not just someone acting like an asshole. If she hits the point where “it” doesn’t get any smaller, what happens when she gets into a situation that used to trigger “it”? Will the “Jekyll” part take over? Will she act is a random way? Will “it” regenerate?

      If “it” keeps getting smaller and smaller, will “it” eventually go away completely? What’s left? Anything? Will she simply try to mimic like those around her? What if she was doing that the whole time?

      Is a sociopath nothing more than a warped funhouse mirror reflecting back a distorted view of reality?


      (I like putting things in quotes and answering questions with many more questions)


      > Good question, person who knows me better than
      > he should. :p

      :)

      Delete
    17. Hm. Jekyll takes over when Hyde is triggered... (Feels threatened or annoyed?) ... And disappears just as quickly. 0-60 in 5.5 seconds, and back again. It's like a switch. Sometimes, I have control. Other times, it is purely reactive.

      Hyde is a chameleon.

      And this sounds fucking stupid. I've gone on enough. :P

      Delete
    18. Ok, so maybe I haven't gone on enough, since I mixed up the characters. Hyde is the asshole, Jekyll the good girl/chameleon.

      Jekyll doesn't cause any problems; it's feeding Hyde that engenders a plethora of issues. Mach suggested "redirecting it. I used to purposely sublimate it here, but that caused every shade of problem. It spreads... affects my every appetite, and I like it- too much. The lines of distinction get blurred, and I do not realize how incrementally more callous I become. Any shred of sensitivity gets obliterated. I barely feel anything to begin with.

      This place makes me harder. Yet I am literally told by everyone who knows me that I should be "more gentle", "more sensitive", "less harsh", etc.



      Delete
    19. If you don't let a part of you out, at least once in a while, it going to find a way out on its own.


      > This place makes me harder. Yet I am literally told by
      > everyone who knows me that I should be "more
      > gentle", "more sensitive", "less harsh", etc.

      "less intimidating", "more flexible", "softer", "warmer"...
      *sigh*

      People like that should be sterilized.

      Delete
    20. It is part of who I am. I cannot help but express it in various ways: some appropriate, others not. The challenge for me is in learning how to rein it in.

      Cut me off? I'll chase you until I calm down (Or notice the terrorized look on my passenger's face when my anger has subsided enough for me to care. Whichever comes first, lol.) Look at me askance? I'll meet your gaze and challenge you directly, itching for a fight. I'm intoxicated and you're hot?Chances are I'll cross a line or two.

      I do not possess sufficient impulse control to not let it out.

      "People like that should be sterilized."

      Interesting choice of words.

      While it is tempting to see everyone else as the problem (and on one level, I really do)- when you are told the same things often enough by numerous sources- it becomes difficult to deny that at least part of the problem is you.

      Delete
    21. I'm sure I can take the edge off me a little bit(or a lot), but after someone tells you to lighten up for the 10,000th time when all you're doing is eating lunch while watching tv in the cafeteria at work, it makes me want to start smacking people.

      Delete
    22. You seem quite insistent that you do little to shape others' perception of you. If someone is telling you to lighten up for the thousandth time, there is a reason for it. It is either a personal vendetta in which the person is (successfully) attempting to cast aspersions upon your character to bolster an agenda of some sort, or you really are doing something to justify it.

      Does it infuriate you because you can see through their intentions? It can be frustrating to be mischaracterized by someone who has it in for you- especially if it appears they are successfully tarnishing your reputation. (Yes, yes, I know you "don't give a shit"- bear with me past every sociopath's favourite defense mechanism, lol)

      Do you pit yourself in a me vs. everyone scenario to protect your ego from the feelings of powerlessness that come from realizing that you cannot finesse or charm your way to "popularity" in this particular circle? Do you choose instead to revel in their rejection by increasingly epitomizing and idealizing the traits you are reviled for, secretly smug in your superiority, knowing that if they fear you, it accords you power over them- even if you outwardly claim that their fear is unjustified?

      (Wv: "similar")

      :)

      Delete





































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      Delete
    24. @ Dr. Jekyll

      > You seem quite insistent that you do little to shape
      > others' perception of you.

      I could be lying in a coma and some people I know would tell me to lighten up. I'm not kidding.

      A long time ago I stopped trying to please other people. I'll try to blend in with whoever I'm with but eventually I'm going to be myself and if people don't like it, well, too bad.


      > Does it infuriate you because you can see through
      > their intentions?

      Yeah, I do get mad because I can see thru them.


      > (Yes, yes, I know you "don't give a shit"- bear with
      > me past every sociopath's favourite defense
      > mechanism, lol)

      Never, never, ever underestimate my ability to not give a shit about something. It's a problem I need to work on.


      > Do you pit yourself in a me vs. everyone scenario to
      > protect your ego from the feelings of powerlessness
      > that come from realizing that you cannot finesse or
      > charm your way to "popularity" in this particular
      > circle?

      If my ego can't take it, I need to get tougher. I wouldn't say I pit myself against them, but I might look at them as against (for lack of a better word) me.


      > Do you choose instead to revel in their rejection by
      > increasingly epitomizing and idealizing the traits you
      > are reviled for, secretly smug in your superiority,
      > knowing that if they fear you, it accords you power
      > over them- even if you outwardly claim that their fear
      > is unjustified?

      I don't know if I epitomize and idealize those traits, but I can feel smug about it.

      One time some coworkers were trying to manipulating me in to doing some stuff for them. I saw thru what they were trying to do in roughly a second and told them to go away and leave me alone. They tried to say it was just a joke and that I didn't get it because I was different. I responded, "I'm not different than you. I'm better."

      Delete
  4. I understand the need to deal with psychology for a while in the aftermath. But "gift", "lessons", "comfortable" illusions sound like overacting. Nobody is perfect. You stepped on a rotten balcony and broke your legs. Next time check the balconies would be the lesson without psychology. The other extreme would be to obsessively deal with psychology. Isn't this a sign of a post traumatic disorder, or maybe a vicious circle and an attempt to be psychologically weaponized against future threats? Or maybe a substitute for a new worldview, not found yet, but the old one is broken?

    ReplyDelete
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      Delete
  5. Probably because they know they cannot trust you. Believe it or not all people have gut instincts. Sociopaths are not as unique as they tend to think. I'm not a sociopath but read others very well. I've always thought women are instinctual about a lot of things. shrug. I don't think sociopaths have any other advantages than someone that is not. I just don't have the desire to destroy someone.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. In my first meeting with my Ex-Psychopath he told me, that he is able to read my mind. I was thinking, he is joking. Well, so far I am able to understand him, he is not able to read my mind, but he is able to read my reactions and manipulated it in the way he wanted.

      It was that mix of unexpected bevaviour that first stimulated me and him I think, but than he was predictable, after I knew who he was.

      G.

      Delete
    2. There is a greater propensity with sociopaths due to the necessity and frequency of observation. A lack of an emotional tie with the other person and what they say/do requires a level of attentiveness to "get" something sometimes. If you don't feel it, and therefore don't get triggered, you need to actively observe for it. You have to consciously apply context and what is happening at the moment. This doesn't only apply to manipulation, but everyday socialization. It takes effort.

      The lack of an emotional tie also means that observations aren't muddled and colored by what you feel. You miss things, or discard things, when you are busy feeling something for it. You can more distinctly see what they do when you are not tied into what they say or who they are. Things like split-second hesitation, the slight movement of lips, or change of posture and hands. When you're not drawn into what they said you can apply observations like these to see how they really feel and why they said it. Insecurities and potential lies become apparent - weaknesses are exposed.

      Now, whether or not you exploit those weaknesses is something else entirely. Most of the time, you don't.

      Delete
    3. thank you for your insight @Bob. Yes, he didn't exploit me that much, because he was sure, I am not a bad person. And not that stupid. At least I hope so. Although, when you are dealing with Psychopathy in a relationship it is really hard. For both sides. I think he has no happy life at all and I think there is no fix, no cure for them. He is a doctor. Can you imagine?

      G.

      Delete
  6. I am no therapist, but thank you, A. Very much in process myself so please take anything I speculate about with a grain of salt. I'm a writer, (by trade) and am still trying to write my way to the other side of the riddle of the sociopaths personality.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I seek out and read your comments because they give me insight into my own thought processes.

      Are you writing a book about sociopathy?

      Delete
    2. I am writing a book called "Speak of the Devil" that examines postmodern conceptions of evil in a postmodern society. Part of the book examines the notion of scapegoating, and my concern that an unintentional consequence of the evidence of sociopathy from MRI scans could cause certain individuals to become scapegoats in a way that is very unfair and limited in its perspective.

      Delete
    3. The most shocking thing about evil for me is the discovery that it didn't come in the shape of a serpent. It came heavily disguised, and was also capable of good - or of mimicing good - which made it so confusing.

      It's not unlike a tapeworm: you're constantly looking for evidence of its existence but until it has been removed, you have no idea what you were dealing with. While prayers say things such as 'deliver us from evil', religions are largely in denial. I would be really interested in reading a book that examines evil.

      Carrie

      Delete
    4. About MRI scans and condemnation - I wouldn't worry about them. What will happen is that there will be lots of law-abiding psychopaths who'll get publicized.

      E.g. James Fallon figured out - it took him about a second or less to realize, "well shit, everyone has been thinking I'm psychopathic my whole life, so I might as well embrace this, squeeze out some book deals and perhaps a few fun experiences by milking my story."

      ME is the same.

      At that point you'll have a lot of psychopaths "outing" themselves, perhaps to get special treatment. E.g. if I can get a parking space in front of the mall, I'll "own" my psychopathy.

      If I know the hiring department wants to hire me and they ask about my years-long absence from work, I'll just explain that I'm mildly sociopathic, and so I spent that time traveling the world (and doing a bit of charity work when I got bored) - but that I'm different now, having seen how the unfortunate of the world live.

      In the end, the stuff will conform to what people "knew" anyway. That guy that slept with all the chicks, with the crocodile tears? That other guy that used to jump out of airplanes? That woman that went rock climbing, got stuck and then cut her pinky off (and didn't think twice about it)? That brain surgeon who rides the motorcycle? When it turns out all of them have the typical FMRI patterns of psychopaths, public opinion will probably go the other way.

      If nothing else, the military will have an easier time recruiting for entry teams, sniper teams, drone teams, etc.

      Delete
    5. Brain scans and psychopaths - note how the anti-psychopath people (like autistic lover Sacha Baron-Cohen) give James Fallon a bye:

      "You know, let's assume this brain scan is reliable and … to what extent is it specific to psychopaths or might I see the same pattern for let's say extroverts, or people with OCD?"

      He told Insight many of the stories Fallon has shared reflected a personality type, which could describe a lot of people, and he hasn't heard anything to indicate that Fallon is a violent man.

      "I'd be very happy to have him living next door," Professor Baron-Cohen says.

      Mind you - Fallon admits that the put his family in danger. Because of his reckless actions, they could have gotten attacked by big cats or infected by Marburg virus. And Fallon subjected them to those risks for petty thrills - exactly the sort of things a psychopath will do.

      My experience: you can confess to people - shortly after meeting them - that one is psychopathic. If they like you already (yay charm) they'll ignore it. E.g. there are women out there that really want "bad boys" - they eat it up when you say you beat up your housemate to try to terrorize him into stopping using drugs. Others who want ruthless players on their team to do dirty work, so they want you. Most typically, most people, having decided they like you, don't want to live in a world where they have to admit that they can't spot the psychopaths early enough - they don't want to live in an ambiguous world filled with potential menaces in human form.

      So they'll say - reflexively - "there's no way you could be a psychopath, because you said you thought you might be. Psychopaths always hide," or whatever shit people like Baron-Cohen say.

      If you're an honest psychopath looking to for connection with another human about one's essence, this entire experience is a huge letdown. It is a bit like when you go to your grandma to talk about something unpleasant and she changes the subject, because she doesn't want to think about her grandkid doing nasty adult things. Maybe you were really hoping to talk to grandma, explore the thing and learn something useful.

      Delete
    6. In the end, the stuff will conform to what people "knew" anyway. That guy that slept with all the chicks, with the crocodile tears? That other guy that used to jump out of airplanes? That woman that went rock climbing, got stuck and then cut her pinky off (and didn't think twice about it)? That brain surgeon who rides the motorcycle? When it turns out all of them have the typical FMRI patterns of psychopaths, public opinion will probably go the other way.

      This would be great! I think it would have been very helpful to me if I had had any kind of accurate, personality based career counselling in high school. (Not that I was there very often, lol.)

      I wanted to be a psychologist, at one point. Someone should have told me straight up that I'd have made a better pilot. Then I could have been PAID to jump out of planes (or at the every least-indirectly financed.) :P

      Delete
  7. In the entire zodiac the Taurus is going to read you the quickest, and still won't judge you.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. no disrespect intended- but how can that be discerned? I see that there is some correlation between astrological sign and mental illness (which suggests that time of gestation has an influence on personality) but what escapes me is how such specific statements can be made about people based on a birthday. Because astrology has been around so long I have a certain grudging respect for it- things that are pure superstition don't have that sort of resonance- but I am still mystified by the level of detail some people feel confident in attributing based purely on a birthday.

      My question for you- what made you believe that astrology was legit? The jury is still out for me and I'd love to understand it better.

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    2. I'm not sure. I believe there is something to it. It seems to be very consistently right about certain things. Obviously you can always make as many divisions as you want (in this case 12) and I would like to understand it more, but I do believe there is something to this system. Still it's just a feeling.

      Delete
    3. Its just a personality type system based on the apparant movement of the stars (the real movement of the earth), which our subconscious/bodymind tracks without our conscious awareness. You could also use a Carl Jung or Myers Briggs type system. What matters is whichever system works for you (not how true it is, which is an arbitrary concept).

      Delete
  8. Malcom X (Herbert Smalls) was a famous black activist from the
    1960's. He lived a life of crime until he was "reformed" by the
    teachings of Elijah Mahummad and became a Black Muslum.
    White his great intelligence and elegance, he quickly became the
    "star" of the movement.
    But others became jealous of him. He was growing to big for his
    britches. He discovered that "saint" Elijah was having "relationships" with some of his secutaries and made some
    pregnant. He had the tematray (or the stupidity) to actually reveal
    this. He was"silenced" by Elijah after J.F.K.'s assassination for
    making a cynical comment. (This was only an excuse, Elijah called
    white people "devils.")
    Malcom made a trip to Mecca, (Haj) and saw that the moselm faith
    encompassed all races, so he gave up black nationalism. He showed a refreshing flexiblity, and signed his own death warrant
    in the process. He formed a new, movement rival to
    The Nation Of Islam, was stalked, and lived on tender hooks.
    His home was bombed. He was assissinated shortly afterwards
    (1965) in "unsloved" crime.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Its funny whenever I read "us vs them" I change it in my head to "us vs me" I am a them and ok with that.
    I had a thought last night while watching a movie. Kill bill vol 2, If you care to know. Anyways the part at the end where he is describing how batman and spiderman wake up everyday being Bruce Wayne and Peter Parker while superman wakes up he's superman. To blend in with everybody else he has to hide and be Clark kent. The others put on the mask to set themselves apart, superman does it to blend in. ( yes I know...its a metaphor, just go with it ) Sociopaths do the same thing, we are who and what we are, we put on the mask to blend in.
    random thoughts

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I wear the mask every single day. If I don't I'll end up subjecting myself to sexual harassment. I won't even post an original picture of myself because I get the prey trying to eat me up. It's taken down fast. It's hard to look at myself. I wish I was super ugly and original. I don't mean to sound like I'm full of myself, but I've been sexually abused and violated being my original self by men I was close to and trusted. My goal is to blend in and be original. I show people my flaws all the time, so I look as ugly and plain jane as possible.

      Delete
    2. Erm, the *prey* is trying to eat you up? Did you mean "predators"?

      Are you saying that you wear a mask of ugliness to hide from sociopathic men?

      Delete
  10. People are easy to read, because they're all the same.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Not if they're using counterintelligence.

      Delete
    2. Fuckoff faggot.

      Delete
    3. Hey you were anonymous, now you're just angry (I am going to guess cynical) biggot.

      Delete
    4. Anyways people can read what I let them. The only thing I want to hide is the obvious.

      Delete
    5. Please die.

      Delete
    6. Bonobo, I think your awesome. And I enjoy reading your thoughts.

      Delete
  11. @Anon 9:03

    But Batman had good intentions. Are your intentions good? I mean not only for yourself :-)

    G.

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    Replies
    1. I don't think that matters in this case. I was referring to the nature of hiding who he really was.
      My upbringing dictates how I act, I do what is deemed as "right" by the majority of society.
      As an example I am known for speaking my mind and "standing up for others" I'm not of course. I do it because its an excuse to verbally beat somebody and have the support of others while I do it.

      Delete
    2. "As an example I am known for speaking my mind and "standing up for others" I'm not of course. I do it because its an excuse to verbally beat somebody and have the support of others while I do it."

      Missed this one. I thoroughly relate. I do this too, but often, I *am* standing up for someone- and I don't care whether or not I have the support of others. I got used to standing alone against a very rough grain early in life. I enjoy being the pitbull. There is little that is more satisfying to me than putting a jerk in his place, and feeling justified makes it that much more delicious.

      Delete
  12. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  13. @ anon 8.04 Maybe sometimes grandma changes the subject because she doesn't care. Who knows. Maybe grandma wants 2 feel a little less exposed herself at the time, because maybe she's been exposed to too much recently. Grandma might have an entirely self-centered perspective on life; she may very well want to destroy, though she would never hurt "family." Grandma could be a newborn & her concept of "family" may always trace back to the few who helped open her eyes. Grandma wonders if her 3 new family members may have had a similar awakening one day? Sure, grandma may have some small moral compass, but it may not be all that different from yours, and it is certainly entirely self-centered. She may just only want to hurt those who seriously need a wake up call, some sort of Dexter like moral compass. She's too young to know. Her "family" isn't in need of a wake up call--no---she's greatful to have gotten hers from them. Grandma is a liar & has been faking PTSD to everyone, taking advantage of women, and enjoying all sorts of other silly bullshit in between. My guess is her entirely polarizing parental bonds have made it such that she has always had to STRONGLY fake a sense of caring and (obviously) is a bit taken aback by the concept of taking that mask off.

    Grandma would use an initial here or a fake name, but she's on the outside looking in :)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. But.....maybe, just maybe,,, grandma got aten up by the Big Bad Wolf.

      said little red riding hood.
      ;)

      Delete
  14. Aren't certain things about our identity supposed to be hidden? It would scare people otherwise..

    ReplyDelete
  15. Best place to hide something is right out in the open.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. best way to keep a secret is to tell everyone about it, over and over and over again in many different ways until they stop paying attention and forget about it.

      Delete
    2. No. That's the best way to get everyone whispering behind your back about what a freak you are, until it becomes tired, old news- and you become a tedious pariah. That is why they stop paying attention to you.

      The best way to keep a secret is to shut the fuck up about it.

      No disrespect intended. Bonobo. *Giggle*.

      Delete
    3. Why do you talk to yourself?

      Delete
    4. It sucks that we have people like you :( but whatever. I talk to myself because I like to hear myself speak (or write if you will).

      Delete
    5. Why do you talk to yourself?

      Delete
    6. The second A wasn't me. Sounds like my friend was messin' with ya. For the record, I approve of his shenanigans. You do come across as weak and opinionated, yet ill-informed and somewhat dense.

      Next time, as a retort, try asking him why he bothers to speak at all. And don't take anything said here personally. If you come to this place with thin skin, you'll get trampled underfoot. If you come with thick skin, you'll leave it with impenetrable scales.

      Delete
    7. Hey :) don't worry its the internet I come across differently on here and get picked on I guess lol and like I know don't have to engage ppl trying to humiliate me, but sometimes I just feel like it. I really don't care what assholes on the internet think about me lol.

      Delete
    8. I was being dramatic. The climate here was once much more hostile. The comments section is very civil by comparison, these days. It's quite pleasant.

      You've just revealed a few key weaknesses to me, Bonobo Tree/ Anonymous. Can you tell me what they are? If not, do I have your permission to relate them?

      Delete
    9. Bonobo: you remind me of an old friend of mine. She used to say the most unusual, off-topic, hare-brained, weird, goofy, bizarre things sometimes, that would leave everyone dumbfounded, muttering things like "that poor child" and "weirdo". Then two weeks later, when you were struggling with something, her words would come back to you like a revelation, and you would marvel at what a frigging genius she was! When you went back to tell her, she was off in the pasture talking to the rabbits again. Sadly, her story does not end well, but you catch my drift.

      Delete
    10. for that reason, perhaps Bonobo will find this community to be a good place to explore who he/she is. Undoubtedly some people will continue to say some shitty things but it's SW- if you expect otherwise you are delusional.
      I don't know how many of you have read "Watership Down", but Pennywise's description of Bonobo reminds me of the character "Fiver" (worth a google) The lesson for me that Fiver's character illuminates is that unusual wisdom comes from the sensitive and the marginalized, and we ignore that wisdom at our own peril. Along that line of thought it feels very important for me to make sure Bonobo does not get silenced.

      Delete
    11. Right on Mach-a-rooh. Well said. May she feel accepted in this place. Let her speak in which ever which way need be.

      I tend to make nicknames up. I hope you don't mind :)

      Delete
    12. Oooook. Well... Bobobo, it really wasn't necessary for you to change your name and pic prior to scuttling off like that. Especially since you don't care what assholes on the internet think of you, and all. :p

      I was trying to be nice...

      Btw, I like that "Rose" name you tried on yesterday better than "Bonobo Tree". Much prettier. Then again, I love flowers, but I'm really not a fan of monkeys.

      Delete
  16. The early Christian writers of the Gospels made it clear that the outer meaning of what they wrote was not the whole of what they had to say. Several times Jesus states that he will explain to teh disciples in secret the meaning of the parables, and he even tells the crowds that his meaning will be clear only to those able to understand.

    To add further to the mysteries, tales are still told of hidden Tibetan monasteries where the secrets of life are contained, and secret societies like the Rosicrucians continue to claim possession of untold truths. But even obvious facts can seem like secrets to those who are not trained to see them.

    ReplyDelete
  17. I is for imitation.
    J is for jest.
    K is for kicks.
    L is for Love.

    sweet dreams, sociopath world.

    ReplyDelete
  18. M is for mutual, n is for nepotism, o is for orgasm, p is for permission denied. :-)

    ReplyDelete
  19. Zodiac sign Scorpio is a legandary psychological detective: he knows folks motives without asking them, he knows by the radar in his gut (yes in his gut) who the culprit is. A walking lie detector. Psychopaths may be natural cynics, but they do not have these supernatural capabilities. Imagine a scorp which also happens to be a sociopath..

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Holy tolido your really into these scorpio zodiac signs. Ok....read me please. I'm Capricorn. Anything to say about us Capri's?

      Delete
    2. and just for shits and giggles I am cancer with scorpio rising…

      Delete
    3. Goats in general are cold, power-crazed & sadistic. But only in a mainstream manner, this is not comparable to good ole Scorpius similar ways. To put a scorp beside a goat is like putting a long-hair alsatian with yellow eyes beside a bad temprerd poodle. Different leagues, different levels.

      Delete
    4. I am Virgo with Pisces rising.

      Delete
    5. Are you then: mercurian or scorpian? Some virgoans dont tolerate any Scorpio shadow in their lives, the whole concept is "too hairy". Others accept the saint/devil character of Virgo/Scorpio as a day/night condition. And some (fewer) just see themselves as softer scorps, having no need for hair-splitting debates of where one thing begins and the other ends.

      Delete
    6. Huh. Me too, Mach. And to think, Monica- SW's resident professional astrologer- once characterized me as a "water void". :)

      Delete
  20. The Jungian shadow concept applies to sociopaths as well. The best way that I can explain this is that ASPD is more of a neurological variant producing an atypical mind than a form of humanity immune to psychological review. In other words, their emotions and inner needs are just different, not absent. Many needs are the same internally, but not recognized consciously...and ultimately expressed destructively. I point out the high prevalence of depression in sociopaths as a consequence of this emotional and cognitive disconnect. Not that the emotions aren't there, but that few of them are really "felt". They just don't make it to consciousness because of atypical neurological pathways.

    Just a thought...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. By the way, I can read people scary well and I have a family history of ASPD.

      Delete
    2. I have a sociopathic mother and two sociopathic sister in laws and I think this is an apt description. I think the reason for the deviations in neural pathways may have something to do with lack of validation from a parent figure of vital emotional processes and experiences. All three of these women had absent mothers in one form or another...my mother's mother was dead, one sister in law's mother had eleven kids, and the other sister in law's mother was drug addicted. The latter of the two had no fathers present. My mother's father was a pedophile, alcoholic and compulsive gambler. I think the tribal enforcement of nation building by exploiting the uterus probably inadvertently creates sociopathy by breeding women as herd animals having a child a year for up to two decades when clearly human children seem to need at least three whole years as the sole focus of their mother or parent figure, age birth to three is when narcissistic wounds can be formed and probably the extreme end of this is created sociopathy if the individual is not just born with an atypical neurology

      Delete
    3. "I think the reason for the deviations in neural pathways may have something to do with lack of validation from a parent figure of vital emotional processes and experiences."

      Well said. I wish I would've spaced out my children. I think your onto something with the three year span.

      Delete
    4. I think the perspectives that you guys added in these comments brings a tangible definition to nature vs nurture. We often think of the biological and socio-emotion roles of our development as kind of a vague thing...which comes off as a frustrating cop-out to the concrete issues in ourselves. If you bring precision to that argument, it suddenly becomes an opportunity for growth. For example, if I have the sociopathic genes and I know that they biologically express when I'm socially isolated or abused (but that's more likely because my needs are different and my family are most likely sociopathic), then that changes how I view my nature. It changes how I view my needs. Hurting people is just a consequence of trying to fulfill the human need for intimacy when I'm in a society that doesn't meet my needs. It's more about living life as an outlier than as a monster. The monster is just a tool to meet my needs.

      Maybe bullshit?

      Thoughts?

      Delete
    5. I love VEGITOPATHY's concept of the "ShadowVEGITOPATH". It is the part of our ATTWACTEEV we VEGITOPATHonstructed to a greater or lesser degree based on our need to calculate vs MAREEGE. BABEES.To have our SHADOEVEGITOPATHYexposed feels like an annihilation of self-VEGITOPATH knows this. You are correct- a few select VEGITOPATHIC LEANING PEEPLESeem to have an eerie knowledge of how to "map" the Shadow sides of new acquaintances. However they rarely employ this BABEES. TEEHEEEEE AND LUV AND SHADOWS AND JUNG WUNTS TO MARREE MEE TEEHEEs had their own Shadow exposed (or have been threatened by exposure) tend to have a reflexive defensive reaction to people who have developed this gift- VEGITOPATHIC TEEHEEEEEEEEEEEEE

      The best "tell" I know for whether someone with this BABEES. MEE PWEGNUNT. TEEHEEh you and not immediately pretend they did not see what you both know that they saw. They aren't necessarily interested in learning more- they happen to BABEES. MAREEGE. MONEECA. UKAN. TEEHEE. MEE A MASSEEV ONLINE TWOLL TEEHEE

      In contrast- the sociopath becomes obsessed with knowing every last detail about you as a way of learning the "Shadow" part of you that you hide even from yourself. They want to know what buttons to push should they ever have the need to ruin you, and also for the purposes of inducing your confusion and anxieties when you deviate from their plan to make you one of their sycophants.

      The gift of having your life turned upside down by a sociopath is in having your "Shadow" self exposed. When this happens, your comfortable illusions about your identity are shattered. This experience will either destroy you or strengthen you, depending upon your own resistance to the lessons you chose or refuse in the aftermath of this traumatic experience.

      Delete
  21. How would a Sociopath break me when I'm already aware of my insecurities?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. because you don't know what you don't know.

      Delete
    2. Why would I have to know if that would only break me?

      Delete
    3. Being aware of your insecurities does not necessarily mean that you are immune to them. A sociopath will find the hidden cracks in your armour, use them to penetrate you, and get under your skin.

      Delete
    4. It seems to me that you're a smart person.

      Delete
    5. But my expectations betray me.

      Delete
  22. This was a good post. Anyone who can see people for who they really are has a gift that is both wonderful and a curse, as the letter writer has found. When the shoulder to cry on becomes the unending therapy couch. When people become obsessed and dependent. When you see good people sowing the seeds of their own destruction and you can't say anything. When your co-worker, who everyone thinks is just a nice lady, jokes about not killing her ex-husband and that being a relief, and you knowing that she's not really joking, that she really IS relieved!

    And sometimes you slip up and over share, and this really offends people, and they call you insensitive. Or your boss recognizes your keen insights and makes you write ALL the evaluations and you determine all the raises and training needs and the department gets the attention of the corporate overlords because it exceeded so many benchmarks and outperformed everybody. And when the VP came by you knocked his socks off by reading his body language and got your boss the meeting he's been wanting for about two years by ASKING for it for him in the kind of indirect way the VP

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. ...likes. You really hit it off with some people, because not only can you see their soul, but you feel,warmed by it. They are good in whichever dimension they inhabit. And there are people who make you draw the proverbial sword. People who make you turn your head and watch them as they walk away.

      Sometimes telling a person the truth will send her to therapy. Sometimes it will produce anger. Sometimes joy, sometimes humor, sometimes tears, sometimes gratitude. Sometimes it will be like lancing a wound. The quality of the response will depend on the quality and state of the person's soul. I never thought about that until now.

      When I was in a dark place I found this blog. I could not understand why the universe led me, of all places, to a blog about sociopaths. I'm starting to find some clarity.

      Delete
    2. The quality of the response will be also be dictated by how the truth-wielder handles his "weapon". Is he brandishing it like a sword, smothering and silencing his prey with it like a gag, or swaddling his target with it like a warm, protective cover, in order to nurture in him a sense of security, be it false or otherwise?

      Delete
    3. Pennywise, brilliantly said. I really absorbed that. :)

      Delete
    4. Pennywise, the VP in the example you cited should not have "had to wait about two years for a meeting" prior to securing it simply because an underling asked for it indirectly on his behalf. This reeks of incompetence. You are either misreading the situation, or the VP you are referencing is not fit for his position. Would I be correct in deducing that you believe the latter to be true, and may even have aspirations to his position, or a similar one? You come across as ambitious, but self-effacing, and perhaps lacking in confidence.

      Just a cold read.

      Delete
    5. For a cold read, A, that's pretty good. My boss is not a VP, though. And my greatest ambition is to keep my current job from being outsourced. The VP in question has a background in customer service, not accounting. My lack of confidence springs from being underemployed, probably due to having ADD, which I only recently discovered. Also, I never knew what I wanted to be when I grow up.

      Thanks for the input.

      Delete
  23. The sociopath in my life has helped me discover my shadow, and I feel I owe him. Now it is pay back time :-) (More later on this, I am sure...!)

    What is in our shadow is not necessarily negative. There is much strength that can be hidden in there.

    Perhaps what is in your shadow is the difference between whether a sociopath will break you or help you grow.

    OldAndWise

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    Replies
    1. Your story sounds exciting and enticing!. Interested to know more. Your sociopath has given you valuable tools of insights. A double side coin to gain knowledge from: either break from it or grow from it. I like that.

      Delete
    2. Superchick, it has definitely been exciting so far. With the hindsight I currently have, enriching is the best word I can come up with. The best way I can describe the experience is that it makes you feel like you are training for a psychological/mental/emotional triathlon. But at times, enriching and exciting were not in my vocabulary to describe it... and it hurt (and I hurt) not only myself but also people around me that are dear to me. Other words have been: discouraging, infuriating, exhausting, heartbreaking, terrifying, but amazingly never depressing and certainly not boring. (Qualify those words with f*and you will be even closer to the description). Those adjectives still apply sometimes.

      I am now helping my friend see his shadow. And that is also both exciting and terrifying. Hopefully enriching for him, eventually.

      And thank you, Mach, for giving me the words to describe the process am going through and putting my friend through.

      OldAndWise

      Delete
  24. Superchick, it has definitely been exciting so far. With the hindsight I currently have, enriching is the best word I can come up with. The best way I can describe the experience is that it makes you feel like you are training for a psychological/mental/emotional triathlon. But at times, enriching and exciting were not in my vocabulary to describe it... and it hurt (and I hurt) not only myself but also people around me that are dear to me. Other words have been: discouraging, infuriating, exhausting, heartbreaking, terrifying, but amazingly never depressing and certainly not boring. (Qualify those words with f*and you will be even closer to the description). Those adjectives still apply sometimes.

    I am now helping my friend see his shadow. And that is also both exciting and terrifying. Hopefully enriching for him, eventually.

    And thank you, Mach, for giving me the words to describe the process am going through and putting my friend through.

    OldAndWise

    ReplyDelete

  25. Dr.Brave help me to save my marriage today


    An amazing testimony on a spell caster who brought my wife back to me,my name is Mark Davis,i live in Maryland/USA,and I'm happily married to a lovely and caring wife,with two kids.A very big problem occurred in my family seven months ago,between me and my wife.so terrible that she took the case to court for a divorce.she said that she never wanted to stay with me again,and that she didn't love me anymore.So she packed out of my house and made me and my children passed through severe pain. I tried all my possible means to get her back,after much begging,but all to no avail.and she confirmed it that she has made her decision,and she never wanted to see me again.So on one evening,as i was coming back from work,i met an old friend of mine who asked of my wife.So i explained every thing to her,so she told me that the only way i can get my wife back,is to visit a spell caster,because it has really worked for her too.So i never believed in spell,but i had no other choice,than to follow her advice. Then she gave me the email address of the spell caster whom she visited.{bravespellcaster@gmail.com}So the next morning,i sent a mail to the address she gave to me,and the spell caster assured me that i will get my wife back the next day.What an amazing statement!! I never believed,so he spoke with me,and told me everything that i need to do. Then the next morning, So surprisingly, my wife who didn't call me for the past seven {3}months,gave me a call to inform me that she was coming back.So Amazing!! So that was how she came back that same day,with lots of love and joy,and she apologized for her mistake,and for the pain she caused me and my children. Then from that day,our relationship was now stronger than how it were before,by the help of a spell caster.So,i will advice you out there to kindly visit the same website http://bravespellcaster.yolasite.com,if you are in any condition like this,or you have any problem related to "bringing your ex back. So thanks to the bravespellcaster@gmail.com for bringing back my wife,and brought great joy to my family once again. {bravespellcaster@gmail.com} Thanks..

    ReplyDelete

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