Friday, June 27, 2014

Truly sickened

... is something that I feel like never happens to sociopaths, at least not the way empaths seem to use that phrase most. From a reader:

Have you heard about this story?

The first thing I thought when I read about this boy has severe ADHD or maybe some sociopathic traits.  I say the latter because I cannot imagine ever having the chutzpah or 'cunningness' to pull off sneaking on an airplane or stealing a car at 9 years old even if I wanted to.  What do you think?

As hard as it must be to raise that child right now, that kid is definitely going places.  

On another note, I subscribe to artist Miranda July's email thing, We Think Alone, that curates weekly emails from celebs and various 'important' people based on some sort of theme.  It's entertaining, but this weeks roundup of emails included one from photographer Catherine Opie that made me immediately think of you and your website (see below).  I'm guessing certain types of psychopaths (?) must be constantly getting emails like this.  

Anyways, love the blog and book. 

All best,

Catherine Opie email referenced above:

Dear C,

Let me first begin with the fact that this is a very difficult letter for me to write.  I am writing because I am very disillusioned as to who you actually are. Several of my friends have begun to question the reality of your foundation, as well as feeling that your pushing for meetings and more connections is very invasive.

This has led me to many questions and now to a completely distrustful feeling to your intensions.  I have gone through all the e-mails you have written me since we have started corresponding and it just doesn't all add up with the research I have done on who you are.  I actually don't want you to answer any of these questions.  I DO want to end all further contact with you, which includes you NOT coming to A's house for dinner on Thursday.  I have spoken with A about my concerns and she knows that I am asking you not to come. She thoroughly agrees with me.

 W let me know of her problems with you as well. I went through my past emails from you, and discovered I had originally been introduced to you by K. I talked to K today,and he has informed me that he severed all contact with you, and apologized to me for not informing me of this.  He also informed me that your name is not even G, but L.  I could dig further and probably find out more, but what I know is that any more access to me, my friends and my business relationships are now going to be protected. I want you to NEVER use my name in relationship to your foundation or anything else.

I could say more, but I am truly sickened.

 Catherine Opie

Yeah, a very difficult letter for you to write. It's funny how easily people are sickened by people. I'm sickened by Catherine Opie. Not really, but I wonder if she realizes that there are worse things in this world than to have someone use your name to make a name for themselves. In my opinion, people are way to hung up on the idea/possibility of being used. Who cares if you were used? Basically it is just a damage to your ego? Because even in the best of relationships people use each other? I don't really get it, obviously, and I don't really want to.

Btw, for those that tie their sense of morality to religion, how Jesus handled being blatantly used:

And a woman having an issue of blood twelve years, which had spent all her living upon physicians, neither could be healed of any,

Came behind him, and touched the border of his garment: and immediately her issue of blood stanched.

And Jesus said, Who touched me? When all denied, Peter and they that were with him said, Master, the multitude throng thee and press thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?

And Jesus said, Somebody hath touched me: for I perceive that virtue is gone out of me.

And when the woman saw that she was not hid, she came trembling, and falling down before him, she declared unto him before all the people for what cause she had touched him, and how she was healed immediately.

And he said unto her, Daughter, be of good comfort: thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace.

150 comments:

  1. So my guess is that Opie feared the fraudster (due to the lies and terminator-like ability to charm people) and was disgusted by him or her (and all the lies), so she felt "truly sickened" - aka felt "moral outrage" - which leads to things like retaliation, scorched earth campaign, etc.

    Jesus, on the other hand, doesn't fear or feel disgusted by things, so he apparently doesn't experience moral outrage when the woman touches him.

    You can fault the people who feel moral outrage for acting on it, but if you do, you might as well fault the sociopath for doing the antisocial things he or she does.

    Alternatively, you figure that people have evolved to detect frauds and altruistically (aka "go out of their way to") punish them, because if they didn't, sociopaths would outcompete them in the Darwinian game. Just as sociopaths have evolved to exploit the altruism that most humans have.

    Or finally, you figure that empaths are the way they are and sociopaths are the way they are because God - for his own mysterious reasons - wants things to be exactly as they are. God is all-powerful, isn't he? If he is, things are how God wants them. He wants Opie to be upset, and he wants the sociopath to do what s/he does to upset Opie.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hahahaha. Good.God wantsm everything.

      Delete
    2. It's possible that we might be projecting too much onto God. (As a former evangelical I know all too well the phenomenon of "Jesus found me a parking space because I am one of his special favorites)

      In this case, I suspect God is simply enjoying the show of a self important narcissist who is protecting her turf. This is grade a "righteous" indignation that can only be delivered by the sort of arrogant individual who assumes that God is her own private turbo boost. Thanks for a good laugh.

      Delete
    3. Keep evolving. Take pleasure in what you do,otherwise,where is the fun in all of this? Believe me you will die some day.

      Delete
  2. Tosh.0 did a show with Latarian Milton who stole his grandmom's car when he was 7.
    http://tosh.cc.com/video-clips/wzflc3/hood-rat-kid

    The mom of the kid that stowed away works at the airport. I wouldn't be surprised if she took him to work before. Throw in that most 9 year old kids think jet are really cool and it isn't that hard to imagine him ending up stowing away.

    Did anything happen to Catherine Opie other than having someone use her name? Deep down I think the only thing she's truly sickened about is that she got fooled.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Most people think along the lines of 'if so-and-so is a friend of Opie, he/she must be ok' so she is simply protecting people by disassociating from the fraudster. That's her integrity and altruism coming into play, not just her ego talking. Sociopaths hate the way non-socios pool resources because it puts roadblocks in their way. Good call Opie.

    Carrie

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think the dissociation is OK, but the shaming seems over the top. From what I can surmise, the original author was a bit of a wannabe but didn't do anything damaging to Opie. The response is disproportionate. That said, maybe there's more back story here. But based on the facts presented I think Opie might simply need to take a vacation from her "fabulous" self.

      Delete
    2. I have seen in circumstances like these, people are not just warning, but also retaliating. She is not only defending herself, but attacking back. She wants the other person to feel pain and injury, because she herself feels injured by it. The response seems right inside the expected norm - I'm not surprised.

      Also, being truly sickened/disgusted seems like such an extreme state (and the more extreme it is, the narrower the thinking) to be of no value. I'm content for not being able to feel that. It is such a worthless, if not counter-productive, state to exist in. It seems like some large vestigial appendage, that gets in the way and draws blood and nutrients, but functionally does nothing.

      I am curious, are there times where people would want to feel this way? Some people, for example, may want to feel anger during an occasion. Do they welcome this feeling?

      Delete
    3. TRULY SICKENED BY HEINOUS SOCIOPATHS TEEHEEEEEEEEEJune 27, 2014 at 10:25 AM





















      THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE















































































































      TEEHEE




      TEEHEEEEEEEEEEEE UKAN AND MONEECA WEELLL MARREE MEE MONEECA ALREEDY HUS UND IEM WAITEENG FOUR UKAN TO SAY YEES TEEHEEE







































      TEEHEEE




















































      THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE















































































































      TEEHEE

      TEEHEEEEEEEEEEEE UKAN AND MONEECA WEELLL MARREE MEE MONEECA ALREEDY HUS UND IEM WAITEENG FOUR UKAN TO SAY YEES TEEHEEE







































      TEEHEEE




















































      THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE















































































































      TEEHEE




      TEEHEEEEEEEEEEEE UKAN AND MONEECA WEELLL MARREE MEE MONEECA ALREEDY HUS UND IEM WAITEENG FOUR UKAN TO SAY YEES TEEHEEE







































      TEEHEEE




















































      THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE















































































































      TEEHEE




      TEEHEEEEEEEEEEEE UKAN AND MONEECA WEELLL MARREE MEE MONEECA ALREEDY HUS UND IEM WAITEENG FOUR UKAN TO SAY YEES TEEHEEE







































      TEEHEEE




















































      THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE















































































































      TEEHEE




      TEEHEEEEEEEEEEEE UKAN AND MONEECA WEELLL MARREE MEE MONEECA ALREEDY HUS UND IEM WAITEENG FOUR UKAN TO SAY YEES TEEHEEE







































      TEEHEEE




















































      THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE



































































































      Reply

      DISABLED VEGITOPATHJune 26, 2014 at 1:55 PM

      Delete
    4. Bob,
      I think that before she really attacks back anybody, she is warning that she would not let go and will defend herself. She's using something like "don't...use this, don't even...that"...
      And for the sickness/angree, yes it can make someone feel sick to see some kind of behavior that is not understandable at first sight.
      For some people, this kind of attitude is just useless...and can't understand the point of it! It's leading to a dead end if someone don't understand what is the motor behind this.

      For some people, cheating, lying, disguise etc...is just of NO interest...they can look more far and understand quickly that one day, for sure, everybody will understand who you are.

      As M.E. said, some people are directly asking her what's the point to act like she did...and that for sure people around her will understand who she is, it's just a matter of time.

      I guess that a majority of people don't understand nothing at all, that's why they are getting aggressive...they think that it's impossible that it can be something logical underneath...just evil to harm people!

      If we say that sociopaths are 5% of the population, it means maybe that 95% might not understand a thing of your behavior.

      I've met quite a lot of people in my life with "sociopath" tendencies let's say. It has always disturbed me much as I thought "there must be an explanation"...but I couldn't find it...until someone in my family circle acted this way with me much more closely than the other ones.

      Then I finally understood the all story.

      Delete
    5. I wouldn't say I've ever felt "truly sickened" in the way most people use the term, but I have felt a sense of anger toward people who hurt (physically, mentally, emotionally) children to the point where I envision what I would deem a well-deserved punishment for them. If these imaginings would fall under the heading of "cruel and unusual" then...meh. I'm not going to go so far as to actually do anything to these people. And while I may think the perpetrators of these crimes aren't particularly deserving of mercy, my personal feelings on the matter never seem to go beyond dark musings of poetic justice - never the utter horror that I see on the faces of other people when they hear stories of blood and gore. The utter horror just doesn't happen for me - and I'm fine with that. It only seems to be a hindrance, anyway - I've never witnessed anyone using true disgust properly.

      I can watch the news or documentaries in class without flinching - and if something involving a child being screwed with, the imaginings happen, but they go away shortly and they otherwise don't haunt my day. While everyone surrounding me was "truly sickened" by documentaries on prison, serial killers, etc, I just watched the films passively. To judge by their reactions to these subjects, I would agree with Bob - it doesn't seem worth it. Their disgust always rendered them incapable of actually having an in depth discussion on whatever topic was at hand at each instance. It always got in their way. I don't envy the condition.

      Delete
  4. I don't really understand what the post was about, but it's
    very important that we "clear the air" about M.E.
    People should be honest and admit that they love M.E. very much!
    Why else would they continue to post here, when for all pratical
    purposes M.E. is gone and might NEVER return?
    We only have M.E.'s WORD that she's coming back. And we know
    what the word of a sociopath is worth!
    Yep, the gals-and a few guys-who post here-WANT M.E. And they
    want her in EVERY WAY. Admit it. You've imagined yourself in an
    intimate moment with M.E. You like the things she SAYS and you
    like the way she looks. You could see yourself in a long-term
    relationship or EVEN marriage with M.E. She would OWN you, and
    you would love EVERY minute of it.
    BTW, there's absolutely no consensis in the psycharatric field.
    It's a question of "good" and "evil" as it ALWAYS as been.
    Some acts are "good" and some acts are "evil."

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. DISABELED VEGITOPATH TEEHEEJune 27, 2014 at 10:26 AM





















      THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE















































































































      TEEHEE




      TEEHEEEEEEEEEEEE UKAN AND MONEECA WEELLL MARREE MEE MONEECA ALREEDY HUS UND IEM WAITEENG FOUR UKAN TO SAY YEES TEEHEEE







































      TEEHEEE




















































      THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE















































































































      TEEHEE

      TEEHEEEEEEEEEEEE UKAN AND MONEECA WEELLL MARREE MEE MONEECA ALREEDY HUS UND IEM WAITEENG FOUR UKAN TO SAY YEES TEEHEEE







































      TEEHEEE




















































      THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE















































































































      TEEHEE




      TEEHEEEEEEEEEEEE UKAN AND MONEECA WEELLL MARREE MEE MONEECA ALREEDY HUS UND IEM WAITEENG FOUR UKAN TO SAY YEES TEEHEEE







































      TEEHEEE




















































      THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE















































































































      TEEHEE




      TEEHEEEEEEEEEEEE UKAN AND MONEECA WEELLL MARREE MEE MONEECA ALREEDY HUS UND IEM WAITEENG FOUR UKAN TO SAY YEES TEEHEEE







































      TEEHEEE




















































      THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE















































































































      TEEHEE




      TEEHEEEEEEEEEEEE UKAN AND MONEECA WEELLL MARREE MEE MONEECA ALREEDY HUS UND IEM WAITEENG FOUR UKAN TO SAY YEES TEEHEEE







































      TEEHEEE




















































      THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE



































































































      Reply

      DISABLED VEGITOPATHJune 26, 2014 at 1:55 PM

      Delete
  5. Do you suppose everyone is a sociopath? I have wondered this for some time. It seems to me that everyone, "sociopath" and not, is very concerned about power and control. Everyone is selfish, ultimately. Everyone is out to ensure their own safety and the welfare of their immediate circle of friends and family. Or so it seems to me. And the older people get, the less emotional people become because they've been around and have grown desensitized to it all. According to Martha Stout's _The Sociopath Next Door_, if you catch someone lying three times, you should immediately cease contact with them--they may be a sociopath! But according to several studies I've been hearing about lately, we all lie. A lot. We all lie, we can all pretty much tell when others are lying, and, for the most part, we don't care when we're being lied to. So when we call others "sociopaths," are we really just calling them regular people who've rubbed us the wrong way and who we want to vilify with the easy use of one word? I don't know. It's something I've been wondering about.

    Jenn

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think the 3 lies rule is kind of strange because it doesn't say what kind of lies. I tell little toddlers I know that they are "sooooooo big" because they light up when I do. Technically that's a lie, even though I very much have their best interests at heart.

      The three lies rule is too general. With apologies to Martha Stout I think it should be amended to "If you experience directly or observe someone engaging in the sort of deception that causes another person harm, back away slowly and don't become emotionally involved with that person".

      Delete
    2. Yeah, I know what you mean. And what about the lies I, as a salesperson, tell? I insinuate daily that people in some way need the stuff I'm selling, even though I know they don't and would probably be better off saving their money. I'm lying in a harmful but expected way. So it's okay?

      The lie rule needs clarification, yes.

      Jenn

      Delete
    3. VEGITOPATH IS NOT OUT TO RUIN SW (BLATEANT DEENIEUL TEEHEE)June 27, 2014 at 10:27 AM





















      THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE















































































































      TEEHEE




      TEEHEEEEEEEEEEEE UKAN AND MONEECA WEELLL MARREE MEE MONEECA ALREEDY HUS UND IEM WAITEENG FOUR UKAN TO SAY YEES TEEHEEE







































      TEEHEEE




















































      THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE















































































































      TEEHEE

      TEEHEEEEEEEEEEEE UKAN AND MONEECA WEELLL MARREE MEE MONEECA ALREEDY HUS UND IEM WAITEENG FOUR UKAN TO SAY YEES TEEHEEE







































      TEEHEEE




















































      THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE















































































































      TEEHEE




      TEEHEEEEEEEEEEEE UKAN AND MONEECA WEELLL MARREE MEE MONEECA ALREEDY HUS UND IEM WAITEENG FOUR UKAN TO SAY YEES TEEHEEE







































      TEEHEEE




















































      THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE















































































































      TEEHEE




      TEEHEEEEEEEEEEEE UKAN AND MONEECA WEELLL MARREE MEE MONEECA ALREEDY HUS UND IEM WAITEENG FOUR UKAN TO SAY YEES TEEHEEE







































      TEEHEEE




















































      THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE















































































































      TEEHEE




      TEEHEEEEEEEEEEEE UKAN AND MONEECA WEELLL MARREE MEE MONEECA ALREEDY HUS UND IEM WAITEENG FOUR UKAN TO SAY YEES TEEHEEE







































      TEEHEEE




















































      THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE



































































































      Reply

      DISABLED VEGITOPATHJune 26, 2014 at 1:55 PM

      Delete
    4. You can argue that sociopaths don't exist, or that everyone is one - but there are cases where some people that are quite different than the norm.

      There are people who don't have a conscience, don't experience typical emotions (anger when betrayed), are naturally callous, don't get afraid like normal people and don't naturally empathize.

      Look at M.E. when she writes, "Who cares if you were used? Basically it is just a damage to your ego? Because even in the best of relationships people use each other? I don't really get it, obviously, and I don't really want to."

      She can't easily understand (lack of empathy). She doesn't put enough value on connecting with others (disagreeable), so she can't easily put her attention on it to try to understand. She's unafraid to appear callous (fear deficit).

      Unfortunately, even though she probably finds the situation a bit frustrating, she probably won't think about it long enough to get enough insight that she'll avoid feeling this way in the future.

      So M.E. will probably continue to "defraud" people - a bit like transexuals - and she'll continue to get angry at people for getting morally outraged at her.

      I wish she'd sit down and take a deep look at this shit, so that she could experience less anger.

      I have a similar situation.

      Someone in my social group just died. Some people in the group are acting like this has really impacted them emotionally. I'm a bit skeptical, because they just seem to be so upset and sad. I was a bit shocked to hear the news, but upon reflecting ("druggies die this way") that was about it.

      When I thought about the guy, I realized he did a lot of antisocial things, so I even see some upsides to him being dead. He can't steal stuff from us now that he's dead, so that's one less concern.

      It is tragic that he died young, but there's tragic stuff everywhere - just go to bestgore and there's more tragedy than you can shake a stick at.


      After that, I've mostly been irritated with my peers for being upset and going on and on about the guy dying. It didn't seem to me that they ever really cared about the guy, but now that he's dead they act maudlin. Some just seem upset because this guy was good at admiring people, and now they've lost their admiration. Also, why don't they get equally emotional about everything else that happens around them that is equally or more tragic? People are dying all the time. People are miserable everywhere - just open your eyes.

      Also, when the guy was alive, probably none of the emotional people would have actually helped the guy. I'm the sort of sociopath that takes action to help friends. E.g. I've flown across the country to knock, unannounced, on the door of a reclusive friend in a "death spiral". When I think about that, it is easy for me to think of my peers as being hypocrites.

      I'm in no mood to be hassled for not being sad - because it just isn't my fault that I'm the way I am. I'm actually joyful about being able to comfort people that need it.

      I realized I was carrying around a chip on my shoulder about being criticized or looked askance at for being so unemotional about this - but after I realized that empaths can't help their judging (they don't choose their feelings, anymore than I choose to get aroused by a nicely shaped ass), I realized that I love them all anyway, and so I'll comfort whoever needs comforting. I'm actually joyful at the prospect of that.

      In any case, I'm often callous, unemotional, disagreeable and unafraid - a similar constellation of traits like M.E. - and I am this way to a degree that chills normal people.

      Delete
    5. No, I don't think everyone is a sociopath. I think every action performed by a person is, at it's core, rooted in personal self-interest - but self-interest seems to come in different forms. People do things to give themselves pleasure - and by pleasure I mean anything and everything ranging from personal enjoyment to the relieving of guilt. If a person thinks (even deep down in their subconscious) that they couldn't go on without their loved one, they'll sacrifice their life for them. If someone enjoys the apparent "warm glow" that has been described by some as a result of charitable works, they're more likely to volunteer their time helping people. Likewise, people avoid doing things that they don't enjoy - like the child that just has to touch the hot stove but then gets burned. Do they touch it again? No - they go for the candy or the iPad.

      But just because people's motives are based in self-interest doesn't make everyone a sociopath. For one thing, we (sociopaths) are much more honest (at least with ourselves) about our motives. An argument could be made that we are more self-aware as a result (at least, those of us who have self-restraint and therefore function in society). For another, empathy is rarely (likely never) in the equation for us, whereas for "normal" people, it is. I'll grant you that even the most empathetic, charitable person on the planet will have their callous (maybe even ruthless) moments, but it's not a chronic event.

      It's an interesting thought - especially considering where human motives stem from - but not everyone is a sociopath. If they were, the world would either be much more productive, or much more chaotic (depending on which sociopaths were in control of the law-making).

      Delete
  6. I'm not into religion or any god, but I guess that we can see in nature that there is a balance in certain things, and sociopaths might have a role to play there.
    M.E. says that Sociopaths are useful for the society...politics, lawyers etc...we can also wonder what would be the world with no Sociopathic tendencies? what if world leaders were more empathic?
    And for Opie, I guess that, more than ego, she might be annoyed that someone is not playing the society rules. If there wasn't a single person to respect these rules, the world would be total anarchy...that's why these rules were created by the people themselves.
    But these rules have a meaning only for people who can see a group of people, the human species as a whole...and care for it. If the aim is only myself, than the rules are worthless...
    We can imagine that if all human beings where sociopaths, human beings would maybe not exist anymore...
    But there might be still an instinct to perpetuate the species...

    ReplyDelete
  7. To me, it sounds like she's upset because someone got something by riding her coattails and she didn't get anything out of the deal.

    N

    ReplyDelete
  8. People have a right, and a personal interest, to protect themselves. Sociopaths, empaths, all people. Let's face it, we all want to have a home to go to, a bed to sleep in, dinner to eat, and some companionship. Basic human rights. Fraudulent folks 'steal' other human beings basic human rights, or attempt to. We also have the basic human rights of dignity, respect, basic human kindness. Not everyone senses that these are basic human rights, and they don't live by these basic guidelines of decent living. Watch out for the fraudster, all they want to do is fuck you up. You have a right to protect yourself.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And the best example is that if someone would steal something important from a sociopath, I guess they would go mad...I don't think they would not care...
      The difference is that a "standard" person (if it exists), wants respect as well as she considers that she must respect other people. A sociopath thinks only in one way...
      To my idea, it is working because there is a small percentage of Sociopaths. If 50% of the population were Sociopath, the society concept would not work and something would happend.

      Delete
    2. That is a rather narrow and overgeneralized way of thinking for sociopaths. In reality, it's more about use - a utilitarian point of view. Your model is too one-dimensional to be realistic. If sociopaths were really like the way you say they are, far more would be imprisoned and/or dead.

      As for feeling anger for being wounded - yes sociopaths would feel something. The attacker is seen as a threat, and in the anger is a desire to combat that threat. To eliminate it. To destroy it. Some people have likened it to a predatory response - that seems apt. But the anger is different as well. ME's written portrayal of it is accurate, of it being a cold anger. You do sense inside you a much deeper potential to inflict harm, or kill. All the senses become pre-eminently heightened, and you are very aware at a sensory level. You do not become blinded because of it. But as a consuming force - like anger in general - you are driven by it. That person who injured you becomes the target. The only real concern is getting away with it. It is a very vivid and clear state. You do not become mad/insane by it.

      Delete
    3. RUEENEENG PEEPEL TEEHEEJune 27, 2014 at 10:27 AM





















      THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE















































































































      TEEHEE




      TEEHEEEEEEEEEEEE UKAN AND MONEECA WEELLL MARREE MEE MONEECA ALREEDY HUS UND IEM WAITEENG FOUR UKAN TO SAY YEES TEEHEEE







































      TEEHEEE




















































      THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE















































































































      TEEHEE

      TEEHEEEEEEEEEEEE UKAN AND MONEECA WEELLL MARREE MEE MONEECA ALREEDY HUS UND IEM WAITEENG FOUR UKAN TO SAY YEES TEEHEEE







































      TEEHEEE




















































      THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE















































































































      TEEHEE




      TEEHEEEEEEEEEEEE UKAN AND MONEECA WEELLL MARREE MEE MONEECA ALREEDY HUS UND IEM WAITEENG FOUR UKAN TO SAY YEES TEEHEEE







































      TEEHEEE




















































      THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE















































































































      TEEHEE




      TEEHEEEEEEEEEEEE UKAN AND MONEECA WEELLL MARREE MEE MONEECA ALREEDY HUS UND IEM WAITEENG FOUR UKAN TO SAY YEES TEEHEEE







































      TEEHEEE




















































      THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE















































































































      TEEHEE




      TEEHEEEEEEEEEEEE UKAN AND MONEECA WEELLL MARREE MEE MONEECA ALREEDY HUS UND IEM WAITEENG FOUR UKAN TO SAY YEES TEEHEEE







































      TEEHEEE




















































      THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE



































































































      Reply

      DISABLED VEGITOPATHJune 26, 2014 at 1:55 PM

      Delete
    4. Okay, really - what's with Golem here? Is somebody drunk posting or just trolling around? And on every single comment...

      Delete
  9. This is interesting. Having spent as far back as I can remember closely observing people, specifically friends and family. Intrinsically not understanding them has always made this a fascinating subject for me, aside from observing so as to better blend in, and manipulate.

    Power, control, self interest, and even a sense of game play has a bigger role in normal human group dynamics for the average person than most would like to admit.
    They want to seem genuine to each other for myriad reasons; some really just are genuine, however in my experience this is the exception. Ulterior motives are the rule, and though the motives aren't always harmless rationalization for an empath is how they explain this away.

    The Bottom Line: Being used comes off as an offensive, hostile, action to empaths. However people use each other routinely, the defining variables in how they respond are usually power and control, self interest, and the expectations they set for others. It is just that people don't usually realize how much of a role these play in their response, with automatic rationalization contributing to this.
    They don't like to be outwitted, perceive they have lost control of their lives, and see their friends not perform as they wish. Most reaction comes from sheer emotion without being conscious of the logical side of why they feel that way, most people don't even appear to care about stopping to think rather than running on feeling.

    Everyone uses eachother, in my experience when handled correctly they can even be aware of it and still feel no wrong has been done, most often because they are getting something back. So to anyone who cares, what is wrong with that?

    For me, to my friends; I'm the nicest and most caring friend who is always there and usually willing to help with a problem. It's just another act, but as long as they are unaware then they are fulfilled by our friendship as I provide something they need in their lives. Where as I just can't get the same fulfillment from them.
    So really, who is to say that the "fake" can't be "real" enough? If the faker is performing right then who is to say they can't be any truer a friend than the next. After all, a relationship is a two way street. I make my friends feel loved in return for what I want, its effective. So in the end does it matter that I can't feel the same way for them as they do for I when it is real enough to them?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies




















    1. THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE















































































































      TEEHEE




      TEEHEEEEEEEEEEEE UKAN AND MONEECA WEELLL MARREE MEE MONEECA ALREEDY HUS UND IEM WAITEENG FOUR UKAN TO SAY YEES TEEHEEE







































      TEEHEEE




















































      THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE















































































































      TEEHEE

      TEEHEEEEEEEEEEEE UKAN AND MONEECA WEELLL MARREE MEE MONEECA ALREEDY HUS UND IEM WAITEENG FOUR UKAN TO SAY YEES TEEHEEE







































      TEEHEEE




















































      THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE















































































































      TEEHEE




      TEEHEEEEEEEEEEEE UKAN AND MONEECA WEELLL MARREE MEE MONEECA ALREEDY HUS UND IEM WAITEENG FOUR UKAN TO SAY YEES TEEHEEE







































      TEEHEEE




















































      THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE















































































































      TEEHEE




      TEEHEEEEEEEEEEEE UKAN AND MONEECA WEELLL MARREE MEE MONEECA ALREEDY HUS UND IEM WAITEENG FOUR UKAN TO SAY YEES TEEHEEE







































      TEEHEEE




















































      THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE















































































































      TEEHEE




      TEEHEEEEEEEEEEEE UKAN AND MONEECA WEELLL MARREE MEE MONEECA ALREEDY HUS UND IEM WAITEENG FOUR UKAN TO SAY YEES TEEHEEE







































      TEEHEEE




















































      THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE



































































































      Reply

      DISABLED VEGITOPATHJune 26, 2014 at 1:55 PM

      Delete
  10. Not everyone uses for their own selfish motives. There's a give and take that 'feels' right and honest for individuals. Not everyone understands this because we're different. Sociopaths can't understand this, just as we can't understand their thinking.

    Their are some higher up organizations that actually have honest, ethical people working in them. I know it's hard to wrap your head around that(impossible), but it's actually true.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I guess I can't understand that, I've never felt anything like that between myself and another person. However I accept that someone could feel something like that even if I can't understand it, its fun to try to.

      I do actually believe that, but I think they are fewer than you'd think. I think our society doesn't encourage that to an extent and I know or know of too many successful people not like that to believe that is the norm. Even if they want to be good, they just can't all the time, life just doesn't follow those same rules.

      Delete
    2. "Empaths" are not always good as well as "Sociopaths" are not always bad. And in between there is a mix of everything I guess...
      Empaths have a real problem with Sociopaths because they are (for some part, not all parts) at the extreme opposite...but they can "feed" each others.
      I never understood why some people may say "they are not humans" and so Sociopaths would claim, we are humans, we have the right to be!!
      ...I've never thought like this...everybody has two legs, to arms? a brain, a heart (at least as an organ)...so everybody is human...a human is not a one and only "thing"!!

      Delete




















  11. THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE















































































































    TEEHEE




    TEEHEEEEEEEEEEEE UKAN AND MONEECA WEELLL MARREE MEE MONEECA ALREEDY HUS UND IEM WAITEENG FOUR UKAN TO SAY YEES TEEHEEE







































    TEEHEEE




















































    THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE















































































































    TEEHEE

    TEEHEEEEEEEEEEEE UKAN AND MONEECA WEELLL MARREE MEE MONEECA ALREEDY HUS UND IEM WAITEENG FOUR UKAN TO SAY YEES TEEHEEE







































    TEEHEEE




















































    THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE















































































































    TEEHEE




    TEEHEEEEEEEEEEEE UKAN AND MONEECA WEELLL MARREE MEE MONEECA ALREEDY HUS UND IEM WAITEENG FOUR UKAN TO SAY YEES TEEHEEE







































    TEEHEEE




















































    THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE















































































































    TEEHEE




    TEEHEEEEEEEEEEEE UKAN AND MONEECA WEELLL MARREE MEE MONEECA ALREEDY HUS UND IEM WAITEENG FOUR UKAN TO SAY YEES TEEHEEE







































    TEEHEEE




















































    THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE















































































































    TEEHEE




    TEEHEEEEEEEEEEEE UKAN AND MONEECA WEELLL MARREE MEE MONEECA ALREEDY HUS UND IEM WAITEENG FOUR UKAN TO SAY YEES TEEHEEE







































    TEEHEEE




















































    THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE



































































































    Reply

    DISABLED VEGITOPATHJune 26, 2014 at 1:55 PM

    ReplyDelete
  12. VEGITOPATH MISSES THE OLD DAYSJune 27, 2014 at 10:32 AM





















    THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE















































































































    TEEHEE




    TEEHEEEEEEEEEEEE UKAN AND MONEECA WEELLL MARREE MEE MONEECA ALREEDY HUS UND IEM WAITEENG FOUR UKAN TO SAY YEES TEEHEEE







































    TEEHEEE




















































    THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE















































































































    TEEHEE

    TEEHEEEEEEEEEEEE UKAN AND MONEECA WEELLL MARREE MEE MONEECA ALREEDY HUS UND IEM WAITEENG FOUR UKAN TO SAY YEES TEEHEEE







































    TEEHEEE




















































    THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE















































































































    TEEHEE




    TEEHEEEEEEEEEEEE UKAN AND MONEECA WEELLL MARREE MEE MONEECA ALREEDY HUS UND IEM WAITEENG FOUR UKAN TO SAY YEES TEEHEEE







































    TEEHEEE




















































    THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE















































































































    TEEHEE




    TEEHEEEEEEEEEEEE UKAN AND MONEECA WEELLL MARREE MEE MONEECA ALREEDY HUS UND IEM WAITEENG FOUR UKAN TO SAY YEES TEEHEEE







































    TEEHEEE




















































    THEY WEELTH BOFE MAKE GR8 HOOSBANDS TEEHEE















































































































    TEEHEE




    TEEHEEEEEEEEEEEE UKAN AND MONEECA WEELLL MARREE MEE MONEECA ALREEDY HUS UND IEM WAITEENG FOUR UKAN TO SAY YEES TEEHEEE







































    TEEHEEE












































    LET'S BE HONEST HERE, I JUST MISS THE GOOD OL' DAYS WITH MONICA, MEDUSA, EDVARD, BLUEBIRD, ZHAWQ, AND YES, EVEN JASON... ALSO DAVIDSOCIO AND UKAN'S WEIRD RELATIONSHIP WHERE UKAN WOULD MERCILESSLY CUT DAVIDSOCIO DOWN FOR BEING A WANNABE DUNCECAP, SUCH GOOD CHEMISTRY. I MISS ALL THESE CHARACTERS BEECOOOOZZZZZ. TEEHEEE..... I WUNT THEM ALL TOO BEE MYE HOOSBUNDS TEEHEEE

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Vegitopath, we got the chemistry. We got it too ! I'm sorry you miss them. Sounds like a cool bunch.

      Delete
    2. Vegitiopath.. sorry you're profoundly disabled, but please...SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!!! Teehee....you are seriously obnoxious .

      Delete
  13. So I'm confused, did Catherine Opie actually send this email herself to ME Thomas?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think someone sent it to ME.

      They were just relaying what repercussions happened when they interacted through emails with Catherine Opie. Easily twisted and sad in my opinion. She was not nice.

      Delete
  14. This reminds me of when George Carlin said : "Tell us...in your own words." Do you have your own words? Personally, I'm using the ones everybody else has been using. Next time they tell you to say something in your own words, say, "Nigflot blorny quando floon."

    ReplyDelete
  15. What is it with reporters and journalists lately anyway. I recently contacted a journalist about an important issue, and initially she was very eager to help me out. Later that day I received an email from her saying to never contact her again, and that I'm a liar and a manipulator. I asked what she was basing this on, and all she would say is she "did her research". All I can think of is she did a search on the net and saw my name on this site, and made assumptions that I was playing a sociopathic game or something. I wish she would have said what she was basing it on especially since it really was a serious issue. She had such a nasty personality.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's sad how easily people's perceptions can get skewed and twisted from unreliable sources.
      Good ol' reliable google search for ya -- NOT ! Almost like mob mentality. Screw her Dr. G. Go to the next journalist. You have talents and giftings to explore and be presented, the right help will come along. :)

      Delete
  16. Tommy Lynn SellsJune 27, 2014 at 2:23 PM

    "And Jesus said, Somebody hath touched me: for I perceive that virtue is gone out of me."

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I always liked this Jesus from the parables. Snags my heart each time. :)

      Delete
    2. what translation is that, TLS? never heard that take on that particular scripture

      Delete
    3. I just looked it up. It says...King James. Not sure if that's correct tho. Never heard it in this translation also.

      Delete
  17. So not afraid of being used. No one can do that without my consent. And if they're trying to use guilt or pity that won't work on me. Neither will anyone I just met trying to get me to give them money or be conspiracy to fraud. What danger could you pose??? I use people for friendship and company, for emotional fulfillment.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Are they afraid they might get their feelings hurt because you're cold and heartless or something?

    ReplyDelete
  19. An alternate take on this entire post: It's a case study for what sociopaths do to narcissists.

    Making all of us aware that C.O. is an unsympathetic person strikes me as existing along the spectrum of behaviors that fit into the category of ruining someone. C.O.'s preemptively defensive actions made her a prime target for this. Her narcissism was revealed in her outrage, her self righteousness, and her belief that in "excommunicating" an email writer she was punishing that person by destroying their capacity to network within her circles.

    Most sociopaths prefer to live and let live unless they are perpetrating a particular scam. It's quite likely that if the email writer is in indeed a sociopath no harm would've come to C.O. from interacting on a superficial level. But C.O. screwed herself by revealing she was conducting a smear campaign (of sorts) against this writer, who decided to out C.O. on SW. This means a bunch of wannabe psychopaths and perhaps a few genuine articles might google this individual. Her name is now connected to far more sociopaths (on unfriendly terms) than she would be otherwise. Talk about backfiring!

    Sociopaths like to set traps for narcissists who have screwed them over. Whether they believe in actual justice is debatable, but the poetic sort is something that brings satisfaction.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The universe may punish me for saying so, but I would take a sociopath over a narcissist any day. If you survive an encounter with a sociopath you will learn a valuable life lesson. Narcissists just leave scars. That's the short of it. Vegiopath wore me out with all the scrolling. What is that? Haha!

      Delete
    2. Really? Do you think the Lovefraud woman "screwed herself by revealing she was conducting a smear campaign (of sorts) against ..." and that "... a bunch of wannabe psychopaths and perhaps a few genuine articles might google . Her name is now connected to far more sociopaths (on unfriendly terms) than she would be otherwise."

      My understanding is that people look at the LoveFraud woman and think, "ok, I might be able to really play her by pushing these buttons, and I could get X, Y and Z out of her by doing it - but when she figures it out, she'll be a holy terror and drag my name through the mud - because she has a strong desire to inflict altruistic punishment on people like me."

      I can imagine that a lot of normal people would avoid such people, thinking, "if I ever get on her bad side she'll call me a sociopath and try to ruin me" - with the effect that her friends would be a bunch of self-deceived ("I never do offensive things") people.



      Sociopaths like to set traps for narcissists who have screwed them over. Whether they believe in actual justice is debatable, but the poetic sort is something that brings satisfaction.

      Delete
    3. Before I came on this blog, I did some research and I remember the Love Fraud.com women. I was somewhat turned off. I appreciated and emphasized with her pain.....but to me, what I gathered from it, she was setting herself in damaging ways by her continual exposer of her ex-husband. Who would want to date her knowing that she can expose you afterwards if the break up turns nasty. Evaluating your every move and wrong. NOW, I'm not dismissing her pain and heartache, I tend to somewhat agree, women like her can wreck you and expose you in unlawful ways. I often wonder about the peoples backrounds that follow facebook blogs like "beware of the sociopath in your life." There are many groups of shame-bashing and fueling of hating of their ex sociopath/ or ex narcissist. Here's my question? wouldn't that leave you in a victimize mentality and fuel your anger even further? And how many of them have personality disorders themselves? Gaslighting, faulty perceprions and scapegoating can happen quickly without proper defense from the other side. There are always three sides to a story: what she says, what he says, and what actually happened.

      If someone has hurt you or wronged you --don't expose them on the internet. People can put two and two together.. Taking to them face to face or privately can save you a whole lot of heartaches and future relational consequences of interactions. Work it out as best you can. Move on - try on good terms.

      Delete
    4. Fuck, fuck. I'm pecking on my phone, yes I see my errors. Shoulda edited better. I'm in a car pecking fast. Hope someone gets the gist of my words. Lol.

      Delete
    5. Maybe she just wanted some money back. IDK. After I met "my" abuser, it felt strange and I was confused a long time, I knew he manipulated me. But I wasn't able to put a finger on it. I had also to deal with proper Cognitive dissonance. So I wish I could be in contact now, as I am figured him out. But for sure not in a relationship. Now he is gone. And I am fine with that too.

      But it was really a nasty experience, sometimes. Sucked a lot of energy, and rewiring my brain, my thoughts. He played me.

      Delete
    6. I'm sorry you were violated in this manner. But you've learnt lots along the way. Just think your future relationships will be more satisfying and fulfilling - since you realized patterns about yourself in this. You respected yourself enough to change what needed to change.

      But may I ask, I'm interested....why continue contact? :-)

      Delete
    7. Thought this was cute, a friend sent it to me today. I pass it on to you. Pay it forward if you'd like.

      "Bullshit can't break you if you don't let it. A queen knows how to build her empire with the same stones that were thrown to her. " ��

      Delete
  20. Bob, I have been thinking about whether empaths feel something all the time. I would say that personally, I do. With emotional maturity, you are feeling mostly peaceful between social interactions, when not actively thinking about anything particular. (Actively thinking about something will bring separate feelings with it. People think in words, images and but also feelings). I believe most people strive for inner peace, though they might not cognitively acknowledge it. Inner peace is very different from being bored. Emotional maturity (or emotional health?) and inner peace make you better able to recognize your feelings and emotions when they happen and better appreciate, enjoy and deal with them in a way that works for you, that makes you feel proud of who you are. Nobody ever achieves full emotional maturity...

    When you are less emotionally mature, you also feel something when alone. Perhaps the overriding feeling then is some low form of anxiety mixed with some anger and slight self-righteousness. Perhaps this is not universal. I would like other empaths to comment... It is sometimes/often difficult to know why you feel a particular way, or even how you feel, and that can mess people up big time. Actively trying to find out how you feel and why you feel a certain way when not engaged in social interaction - especially if the same feeling becomes habitual - can bring you closer to said "emotional maturity" and "inner peace".

    Here is a metaphor that perhaps will ring a bell with you... Think of smells. Imagine that emotions are smells. People give out smells. Situations give out smells. And the smells stay with you after the person is gone or the situation is finished. A smell that lingers is a feeling. Some smells can stay with you for a very long time (years). Recognizing and being able to identify the various smells and how they affect your behavior and your being is a life long journey.

    Understanding how your smell affects other people is also quite difficult; I believe sociopaths are better at it that most people, but they do easily forget that their smell lingers...

    Sociopaths, especially when they are interested in you, give out very powerful and varied "smells" which can be very confusing to the recipient. A totally new experience... (Personal note: I believe I am emotionally healthy enough to be able to like and appreciate my sociopath "friend" without him liking me back in the usual sense of the word. Strangely, he actually helped me discover more inner peace... I had to sort through the feelings he created in me, and this self reflection and awareness allowed me to understand myself better.)

    I hope this makes sense. These of course are only my personal observations and my opinion and I am not sure all empaths would agree with what I am saying.

    Now, going back to you... when you say you feel nothing when you are alone, do you mean you feel bored? Do you mean you feel peaceful? Or just actually nothing?

    OldAndWise

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Neither boredom nor peace. I'm not sure what peace is - contentment? Satisfaction? Nothing is perhaps accurate, in a non-poetic way (ie. not negative or dark). It is nothing in terms of an absence of an empathetic response. I still think, cognitively, but unless I encounter stimulation that mirrors a given emotional response (which, habitually, you sometimes mimic even while alone), it stays cognitive.

      The metaphor helped, and was illuminating. I never realized. There are some things which aren't inherently learnable, in that without directly experiencing it, you don't naturally see as being there and existing. Some things like wind. This appears to be one of them. Is there anything else you can elaborate on it? Also, additional feedback from others is welcome - I'm curious if there are differing viewpoints, or if it is universal.

      Delete
    2. Bob

      for me, peace is a sweet place. It is not boring. It feels like I am ok with the present moment, balanced, I like my life as it is. Alpha Brainwaves. joy, love. I feel connected with others

      But I am not always in peace. Most of the time I am just thinking. I think there are to basic feelings: love and fear. But that is just my opinion.


      What do you feel most of the time?

      Delete
    3. By the way, in what way do you find your interactions with sociopaths being both powerful and confusing? Confusing how? Do you mean in terms of incorrect or imperfect emulation from the sociopath? Consistently choosing the right reaction, and emulating it accurately, is very difficult. There are always flaws, since it is fundamentally artificial in nature.

      I suppose the powerful nature of it may be based on it being constructed. Unlike possessing an in-depth, continuous spectrum of emotions, what a sociopath portrays are of singular construction. Instead of a universal tool, used everywhere with everything, there is a tool set - each tool (emotion) functions one way and is used in multiple settings. But the tool set is finite - there are a handful of tools, each singularly potent in its one function, and that's it. There are no eight different ways to portray happiness. A smile is a smile. Perhaps that is the power you are experiencing - its potent singularness?

      Delete
    4. Different things, depending on the person I am with and what is happening. Outside of that, nothing discernable.

      Delete
    5. As I wrote in my reply (1: 46) I felt confused in the "relationship" with the "Psychopath" because he acted strange. I never experienced that before. A lot of mirroring, lying, manipulation, abuse. I really can't recommend a relationship with a Psychopath. I felt lost and very alone. Misunderstood. As I said, I had to deal with a lot of CD. I wasn't able to think clearly, feel clearly. Was lost in myself. Lost in translation :-)

      I never felt seen for who I am, more like an object. It was interesting how he injected his manipulation into me. haha. Now I can laugh.

      Interesting that you mentioned, that you display only singular constructed emotions. Maybe I am still not get it, because I can feel you better and you can read me better.

      My experience with the P was, that he was like "emotionally broken" He had emotions or at least I think so, be he wasn't able to keep them. And he was very easy in attack-mode. Maybe anger is also a tool for manipulation.

      You are right, I feel my emotions at a continuous spectrum. Fluid. Like colours spectrum. It is difficult to explain feelings for me, when you describe them at a "tool". But it sounds interesting. Maybe emotions are only with body feelings (tensions) painted thoughts. Don't know if that make sense. English isn't my native language.

      But I still can't believe that you display feelings only when in interaction with others. And then they are useless for you. Or am I wrong?

      To my, they are many many different ways to portray/feel happiness. There are many smiles, not only one. Fake smiles, can't stop laughing smiles, love smiles, friend smiles, warm hearted smiles, being kind smiles, friendly smiles.....

      But again: I really like your questions. never thought in that direction. Thank you.

      Delete
    6. I wrote this in a previous post, but I think it was lost somewhere...

      I am what we might call an Empath/Hypersensitive. To answer the question, my inner system is based on intuitions, and these intuitions are directly linked to feelings and emotions.
      So we could say that i'm nearly always feeling something, this is what is guiding me.
      Like a cat needs its mustache and tail.
      It's difficult to carry everyday, that's why Hypersensitive people are often much tired. It's like if you have an antenna with full time reception...

      BUT, we don't feel Sociopaths as Sociopaths, especially if we don't have a clue about what is a Sociopath. What I was feeling when I met Sociopaths before I understood the system...is a very paradoxical and confusing "signal". I see that the person seems empathetic...large smile, much welcoming (sometimes even if you meet this person for the first time). As I am an Empath, I recognize something I like, I'm like this...welcoming, smiling...BUT I am constant normally...I'll always be more or less like this. The paradox is coming when the Sociopath in disguise, is doing something that I would never do/feel...then I don't understand anymore..the signal is blurred.
      I FEEL then that there is something wrong...not logical.
      With the time I understood the cheating, the fact that the Sociopath I meet is not really showing who he is...
      But as I understood, it is also a little exhausting for the Sociopath to play a role, to hide his real nature, so one day he'll quickly show something that will make me understand.

      For the moment I'm not totally able to stay close to a Sociopath. First because it is asking me some effort to remind me everytime what is the real reason driving him, because in my everyday life what I see or what I hear is really what is (no disguise); and because I'm still suspicious.

      But, as time is going by, and as I've learned about sociopathy, I think that I don't feel hate anymore. I'm starting to understand that the control they want to take on me is feeding something they've missed so much.

      What is very disturbing for Hypersensitive or Empath is that in our world, the ideas sociopaths have, doesn't even exist. We don't imagine it.
      I guess we have also a lack of protection of ourselves...exactly because we don't think Sociopaths are existing (we don't even ask ourselves the question by the way).

      Once you've known a bunch of Sociopaths, you change...especially when you've understood the system. It released me to understand.
      And as far as I remember, Sociopaths I've know have always been the first to come to me...would I have come first to them...not sure...

      Since few months, I've tried something, is to show one hypothetical sociopath relation, that I've recognized him. Not like "I know who you are, drop the mask"...but more like...speaking about love "don't you feel that sometimes everybody knows how to love, and that it looks very mysterious for you..." or something like that.
      Most of my non-sociopaths friends would answer "?? huuu what do you mean, I know what love is"...my sociopath relation would answer "yesss exactly, I feel like a UFO" and would be surprise that eventually I understand him.

      Delete
    7. It would be interesting to know which feelings/emotions a Sociopath can have without copying another's person feeling/emotion. Is there any? or does any emotion comes out with a defined aim?
      Here is a list of emotions given on Wikipedia:
      Affection Anger Angst Anguish Annoyance Anxiety Apathy Arousal Awe Boredom Confidence Contempt Contentment Courage Curiosity Depression Desire Despair Disappointment Disgust Distrust Dread Ecstasy Embarrassment Envy Euphoria Excitement Fear Frustration Gratitude Grief Guilt Happiness Hatred Hope Horror Hostility Hurt Hysteria Indifference Interest Jealousy Joy Loathing Loneliness Love Lust Outrage Panic Passion Pity Pleasure Pride Rage Regret Relief Remorse Sadness Satisfaction Self-confidence Shame Shock Shyness Sorrow Suffering Surprise Terror Trust Wonder Worry Zeal Zest

      Delete
    8. You mean spontaneously, without outside stimulus from a person or event? I don't know.

      Delete
    9. I guess that the difficulty might be more with "empathetic" emotions, or emotions linked with someone else than you?
      ...like affection, gratitude, love...
      Can you feel affection for a pet or animal? a dog, a cat...

      Delete
    10. Not spontaneously, no. On occassion, the act of emulating an appropriate act may, for example, stimulate a response. It's difficult to say, because there is a reversal of logic - the effect precedes the cause. My educated guess would be it due to something akin to Facial Feedback, but the effect is quite brief and limited (not to mention, unreliably infrequent). I had, for example, earlier recounted in a previous post about crying at a funeral. When a parent had died, I did not cry nor feel sadness or loss. However, when an extended family member died and I forced myself to emulate loss - to simulate internally and express externally - I was eventually able to force tears and I "think" I felt sadness... for about five to ten minutes. After that it was gone, and wanted lunch. Another example is watching a sitcom - the laugh tracks sometimes provide a sufficient cue - suffucient awareness - to laugh. After a delay, eventually I might feel humor. Of course it is transient, and maybe due to facial feedback, but it is there.

      Beyond that, sometimes I might feel something. Usually vague and minimal if it happens, and only sometimes registerable due to its lack of potency. But usually this only happens when wearing the proverbial mask. As a case in point, I have felt nothing having typed this or any of the previous replies in this post (I consciously kept track).

      Delete
    11. Bob,
      Does it means that if you are looking your favorite football team playing (let's say that you like football and look it on television), and the sound of television is off, if there is a goal you would have no reaction internal and external?

      There is something strange when I read you...I've had three people dead around me since I'm born. One was very close (my grand father) and 2 were not closed but close to my father's wife (both of them committed suicide). Strangely, and really to my own surprise, I didn't cry or didn't feel nothing but anger. People live and die, that's the rule of life everybody knows it, no?
      But if I see the little cute rabbit dying or in trouble in a Disney movie, I would cry front of my television.

      Another thing is that you spoke about not going to school, or to work...I could say nearly the same thing...for school and for work!
      But in my case, I anticipate that in my whole life it would have no consequences, and if it has, my motivation was not enough to push me to go to this school or work.
      I remember one day, I spoke about it with the parents of a friend, who were School manager and teacher. They said to me that if everybody was doing like this, it would be impossible for the manager to manage it...he was in fact telling me that if everybody doesn't follow the rule...a society can not work.
      I've never felt guilt or regrets not to go to school or work. I did success easily in my exams (to the surprise of some of my teachers), and I've never been fired, but left my main job to build my own independent work.
      If I remember of some teacher or boss telling me "you have been many time absent", I would laugh...and strangely feel that I have what is required to be "over the rule".
      If a teacher tells you "if you don't go to school, you'll not succeed in life"...an if you do still succeed, then the teacher rule has no meaning.

      Delete
    12. I don't know for sure. I will have to experiment one day and find out. I don't believe so though. I can appreciate the skill, the timing, et cetera, but as for a self-generated spontaneous emotional reaction, not really no. Not from my experience. But again, this specific kind of scenario is one I have not tried, so I can't be definitive. If it is like other scenarios I've experienced in life though, the answer would be no.

      Delete
  21. I have a question for the sociopaths on this site. I've noticed several people have expressed empathy for sociopaths on here, and I'm wondering if you feel that it helps you manage your symptoms, or do you see it as a weakness to exploit?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. There are no symptoms to manage. It isn't a disease in that fashion. As for weakness to exploit? Everything is assessed, but it isn't a weakness - it is a demeanor or bearing towards you. As for exploitable, everything is exploitable - the question is does it require exploitation?

      Delete
    2. Bob thanks for responding. I really appreciate it. Answers to some of my questions help me as a professional. A lot of people with ASPD feel like they don't have a disorder, but a lot of psychologists will say they do, and that they need to manage the symptoms. A lot of psychologists will say that since people with ASPD don't necessarily suffer psychologically that they feel they don't really have a disorder, but those around are suffering if the person is causing harm. Certainly the issues are debatable for a number of reasons. They also say a lot of sociopaths are just not motivated to change. What are your thoughts on that?

      Delete
    3. Bob, does it provokes something in you when you feel that someone understands you?

      Delete
    4. (For Dr.Ginger...M.E. Thomas explained that she understood that if she was fired on every job she has, she might be in trouble in the future, or something was going wrong...So sociopaths may not have a clear consciousness of suffering, but they can understand that some practical problems appears in their lives...and looks apparently cyclical. As an hypersensitive person, I found out nearly by the same way...I didn't have a clear consciousness of being this or that (that's in fact a personality disorder, not a disease), but some problems in my life went cyclical...and I decided then to speak with a therapist. )

      Delete
    5. Hi anonymous,

      Thanks for your input. Did you receive a diagnosis?

      Delete
    6. I was diagnosed and received therapy from a relatively young age, but I can say that "change/improve" is not the best term. There is no emotional impetus, so you don't feel the repercussions nearly as strongly. That being said, once older, therapy as far as working on making them experience the benefits of a pro-social lifestyle over the consequences of an anti-social one is the only practical treatment. Outside of that, you can not build up things such as regret or guilt due to the inherent neurological deficit in key areas of the brain (hence the cognitive/functional therapy). There are genetic factors which are currently insurmountable, and will always be against you. Sociopathy can not be treated symptomatically - it is why medication does not work. Instead it is about adapting to a preferable level of functioning in society. You treat the behavior.

      Anon @ 318: No. It is, however, acknowledged and factored into your profile.

      Anon @329: Even if a sociopath consciously recognizes and adapts their behavior, things such as lack of regret and impulse control are still there. For me, I purposely practice a partially ascetic lifestyle, and actively resist temptations where I can, because I know how easy it is for me to - say - not go to work or class because I don't want to do it that morning. It is a persistent thing that must be consciously overridden. After a while it gets worse with, for example, the same job. I naturally seek stimulation from novel experiences, and when the novelty wears off, so does an additional counterweight. Since I don't really feel guilt, regret, or remorse, then the negative reinforcement that you may usually feel to keep you going isn't there for me. At that point, it is about willpower and self-vigilance. I should feel surprised for not regretting burning past bridges, but ironically (and unsurprisingly) I don't.

      If I did not choose to "oppress" the natural inclinations, I have little doubt I would have eventually been imprisoned (assuming I was caught). I was fortunate to have been diagnosed fairly early on, and therefore began to be properly aware before catastrophic self-injury, but it is all naturally uphill from there. People wonder how some sociopaths (ie. successful/high-functioning sociopaths) don't, for example, kill you or con you out of your money - it is simply because they choose not to, and nothing else. They recognize risk/rewards quite well (see MEs posts on the prosthetic compass), but that too is really only a choice (just an informed one).

      Delete
  22. @ Dr.Ginger: A diagnosis for Hypersensitivity/Empathy? Yes and no, I've seen a Psychiatrist, I spoke about this "personality disorder", but he half explained, that the importance was not the label, but what I was able to do to overcome the problems I encountered...
    For example, as a Hypersensitive person, I have problems with concentration, with lights and sounds, with feeling others feeling (too much), etc...so for him I should concentrate on how to manage this better.
    Another Psychiatrist I've seen, told me at first sight, that even if hypersensitivity was heavy to carry, it was also a chance, a gift...

    I would say that if you read few books or articles about Hypersensitivity, and if you are honest with yourself, you'll very quickly understand if you are Hypersensitive or not...many time also, you've heard from your very childhood people around you realizing that you were a very sensitive person...or too much sensitive, not enough protecting yourself and so on...

    ReplyDelete
  23. Bob,

    Can I ask how old you were when you were diagnosed? I thought what you said about sociopathy not being treatable symptomatically was interesting. A lot of overly empathetic therapists feel that if they demonstrate empathy towards someone with ASPD that this is healing for them, but I wasn't quite sure about it. Treating it behaviorally, or through logic makes much more sense to me. Some of what you had to say though reminded me of when I worked with autistic children through the school district, and I know comparisons have been made to autism here. The school district had adopted the Applied Behavior Analysis method which is what we implemented with the students. The kids were in a "self-contained" autism room, but the goal was to get them in to inclusion where they would attend classes with normal kids. They usually weren't able to ever perform on the same academic level as the other kids, but the idea was to get them to behave in a way that didn't stand out in mainstream society. It always made me a bit sad to be honest because I don't know how much the therapy helped with how they felt internally, and it seemed like the main focus was on making their behavior more acceptable so that the rest of us weren't bothered by it. I know you say you don't really feel like you suffer from your symptoms, but to me, having to engage in so much self-discipline, and trying to control your impulses sounds like psychological suffering.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Perhaps it is one of the esoteric quirks of being a sociopath, but there is no suffering. Just annoyance at both the impulse, but also not following it. In the end it is a net benefit not to simply follow the impulses, so I'm fine with it. Sociopathy has both its advantages and disasvantages.

      As for how old, I can't say exactly, but it began as an early teenager. Technically speaking according to the DSM you are not suppose to officially diagnose until at least 18 (as a legal adult, due to the social severity of having it and professionals being careful diagnosing it), but it was fairly clear cut and given anyways when I was around 15. Previous to that it was conduct disorder. I say around that age as that was when I recall going through the administrative hoops for it at my high school (ie. funding for the counselling program under "severe personality disorders").

      I can say that I was still attending mainstream classes (when I chose not to skip them due to boredom - I was also intellectually gifted which compounded the matter), but social interactions were still somewhat foreign. I was never bullied, but I was socially outcasted/disconnected. This wasn't due to knowledge of the diagnosis with others, but simply a lack in social understanding and development with me. I had a couple of "friends", which I spent most of the time keenly observing than socializing, but most of the time I would leave the school and travel around the city people-watching or go to the library to read or teaching myself The Internet (back in the days of AOL trials and dial-up modems). The diagnosis, and the treatments (both pharmaceutical and therapeutic), were inconsequential to me for years. Fortunately I stayed away from far worse behavior (barely, sometimes).

      Schools in general are ill-equipped to handle ASPD. I got more of a benefit out of weekly psychiatric visits than any of the school specialists, which isn't saying much since in the beginning I was given rather powerful anti-psychotics - medicating ASPD is worthless (it literally does nothing in how you think, except for a mild sensation I could only assume was suppose to give a high). I attended an overpopulated and underfunded school in a relatively poor area, but even so with them already having a program for students with "severe personality disorders" they did not know what to do with my case. I later, but only briefly, attended a special school for gifted youth, but that was equally ineffectual. I almost went to an "alternative" school (reserved typically for juvenile delinquents/criminals), but I doubt it would have helped (my anti-social behavior was contained enough not to be forced into it). Mind you this was the 90s - programs for youth with disorders have received more awareness/funding since then.

      Delete
    2. That's interesting about the antipsychotics. There's no psychosis in ASPD. What were they trying to accomplish, or were they just experimenting at the time to see what would work? What area are you from? What kind of behaviors were you engaging in when they diagnosed you with conduct disorder? I think it's interesting that you have chosen to live a rather ascetic lifestyle. I can respect some of the self-discipline some of the people have on this site.

      Delete
    3. I believe the medicating was just one avenue of a multi-method approach. There were the weekly sessions, which were eventually constructive (albeit limited). The difficulty of therapy is not overstated, especially when younger. As for area that I live, I prefer not to disclose that information due to the desire to maintain relative anonymity. As for behaviors when I was even younger, there would be both psychopathic and anti-social aspects. The psychopathic aspects were as previously stated, albeit understandably in a more naive fashion. Anti-social ranged from truancy and deceit, to petty theft and violence (though violence was limited to only two occassions, so there was no pattern of it, nor did it occur after adolescence). I was manipulative, even then.

      As for self-discipline/asceticism, it is the only thing I have found that actually works. Given its results, and the way I am, it is an acceptable (if not fully desirable) way to live.

      Delete
    4. Bob,
      Can I ask you why you are coming on this website? Why in a practical way (to spend time, to speak, to understand) and eventually in any other way...a way to heal, to keep yourself on the "right" direction...to be in contact with Empaths that put words on what is an emotion...?

      Delete
    5. I'll add another question:
      As sociopaths can't love with feelings/emotions, can they give a kind of love by offering presents, money, food...
      I remember that M.E. said that she would offer gifts to her nephews, gave money or bought a house for someone (i don't remember exactly).
      That this is the kind of relations she can have with someone.

      I guess that it is a way to compensate the emotional love they can not give, and to receive love from the people.
      I'm not sure sociopaths are really waiting something more than that...

      For example, the sociopath I know in my family circle, will be as well as me an heiress (money, lands, houses)...do you think she would react very selfishly or even dishonestly? trying not to share equally things etc? or there would be no challenges/issues here for her?

      Delete
    6. I come out of curiousity and interest. SW provides a vehicle to overtly explore sociopathy - as a way of self-reflection. I learn more about myself through the posts and comments. I do benefit from it.

      Love is a tricky thing. ME relates it to a more consuming love, though in honesty in maintaining a more ascetic lifestyle I have refrained from getting involved in relationships. And in truth it is not difficult at all, as I also have no interest. For me, I don't love. I do however often give gifts to family and friends, usually higher-than-average in monetary value. I don't have an obsession over wealth - wealth is a simply another resource - and have no qualms spending it on others, simply because I have it and I can. The fact that people like it (if not sometimes startled or confused by it) is an added bonus which I only seldom take advantage. Giving people gifts, paying for their lunch, adds to the build up of trust and likability, on top of courtesy, attentiveness, engagement, good listening, patience, and so forth. All of which are easy. I should note that not everyone is "used". In fact, the vast majority are not. Most of the time, I practice it simply because I can (a question of "why not" instead of "why"). It's not a big expense, and is a net gain for myself and the person.

      As for the hypothetical, that would depend on the person. Some sociopaths realize the value of sharing (ie. prevent significant conflict, hate, distrust, sabotage (all negatives) while gaining respect, admiration, and likability (all positives)). If I was in that position, I would not have an issue sharing. The benefits/risks calculation is quite clear. That being said, another sociopath may or may not a) realize the benefits/risks, and b) not care to follow it. It is all influenced by the details of the situation and the sociopath herself. If the sociopath was me, I would allocate a respectable/healthy amount to myself invested into a S&P 500 index fund, sufficient to live off the annual interest comfortably (ie. $1+ million). The rest I would more freely give away, albeit in a responsible fashion, such as paying for relatives' tuition, the down payment on a house, et cetera. I would restrain from simply giving it out haphazardly - few people can responsibly spend, nevermind invest, large amounts of "free money".

      Delete
    7. To better relate, I collect likability and good will like a hobbyist collects stamps, with all the malice and compassion that has.

      Delete
    8. I understand...the matter is not much about "fake emotions" as we Empaths would understand it. "Fake" is bad, disguise, snake, preparing a scam=dangerous for others. But it is not about "fake emotions", it is more about..."beginner emotions", it's difficult to define.
      It is a prosthesis...
      And by the way, is it so important if your leg is real or a prosthesis as long as you can walk with other people?

      I've looked a program with Jim Fallon speaking about "Boarder line prosocial sociopathy/psychopathy"...
      And I've seen that Dr.Ginger here asked me if I've been diagnoses as a Border line personality...
      Are sociopaths and Hypersensitive empaths both Border line?

      Why do I feel instinctively close to sociopaths?

      Delete
    9. I think when Fallon says borderline, he's talking about having psychopathic traits, but isn't what we typically think of when you hear the word "psychopath" which is a violent killer. He doesn't engage in any behaviors (at least that we know of) that would land him in prison. If he does talk about borderline personality disorder, however, if you could please supply a link I would really appreciate it. I do think though, that there is a percentage of the borderline population that is psychopathic however, they wouldn't be antisocial psychopaths they would be more like psychopaths with emotions (very intense emotions).

      Delete
    10. Wahoo...I must look again the definition of psychopathy...here is the link...he's just saying he has been diagnoses as "Border line prosocial psychopath"...something like this...
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSuzLAP3S24

      Delete
    11. If psychopaths have intense emotions, wouldn't they NOT be psychopaths?

      Delete
    12. The use of the word "borderline" is being used in reference to "being on the border of" instead of BPD. He is rephrasing what is sometimes referred here as a high-functioning (reduced anti-social) sociopath. ASPD is unfortunately too broad of a category (many of those with the diagnosis do not have, what some psychologists delineate as, psychopathy - only anti-social/criminal behavior). Hence the term "pro-social", to differentiate from anti-social.

      And no, they would not be psychopaths/sociopaths if they had intense emotions. That is directly opposite to psychopathy's shallow affect (lack of remorse, guilt, empathy, emotionally shallow/callous, etc.). There is a lack of feeling, not overabundance.

      Delete
    13. I would like to let you both know that I have extensive experience with the borderline population however, here is an interesting academic article that talks about the sub types of psychopathy including borderline, antisocial, and narcissistic http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1021137521142

      Delete
    14. Just as a FYI, there is a more current meta-analysis by Falkenbach et al. (2014) "Psychopathy variants: Empirical evidence supporting a subtyping model in a community sample." (http://psycnet.apa.org/?&fa=main.doiLanding&doi=10.1037/per0000021). Long story short (since most won't read it), there are variants where certain non-psychopathy specific traits are present - that there is no one cookie-cutter psychopathy diagnosis. That being said, even with this latest study (2014), there isn't sufficient support to change criteria. For example, much of the crossover from other personality disorders is affective in those with Factor 2 (anti-social - secondary) psychopathy. To use BPD as an example, the correlation with secondary psychopathy is .59 (p < .01), which is fairly significant given the methodology used. However the same with primary psychopathy (the non anti-social side - Factor 1), is only -.13 (p < .05), which for all practical purposes isn't remotely correlated. This makes sense, given conflicting traits between psychopathy and borderline.

      Delete
    15. Well considering I received a bpd diagnosis at 14, I definitely know what it's all about :) A psychologist once said borderlines have transient sociopathy, and I think that pretty accurately describes it, but it's not the borderline's default personality.

      Delete
    16. That would make sense, in terms of transience.

      Delete
    17. It also depends on how you conceptualize psychopathy. "Psychopathy" isn't found in the DSM, but even if it were the DSM provides rather vague descriptions of various mental disorders. If were defining psychopathy by violent behaviors, there's a rather high percentage of violence in the borderline population. I recently read a statistic that 45% of people who engage in domestic violence meet criteria for a borderline diagnosis. Also, I know sociopaths have the so called "Warrior" gene, and so do borderlines which may explain some of the similarities. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17417058

      Delete
    18. It's not uncommon for borderlines to report having violent thoughts throughout the day which in my opinion, isn't really a big deal as long as those violent thoughts don't get turned in to behaviors, but again the question is, what exactly is psychopathy?

      Delete
    19. Violent thoughts aren't really common throughout the day though for sociopaths. Usually only when a potential threat in a person is found does the thought of inflicting violence cross your mind. Outside of that, only an occasion is assessed for violence if it is a possible means to an end.

      Delete
    20. That's interesting. More and more law enforcement is starting to talk about violent thoughts in the borderline population so it makes me wonder if it's actually worse. It would be an interesting study.

      Delete
    21. Interesting study. But again, Bob- what makes you believe that you can speak authoritatively about *anyone* else's personal thought life, be they sociopaths or not?

      "All sociopaths bla bla bla"

      "NO sociopath would **cough**bullshit**cough**

      Even the term "shallow affect" is open to interpretation. It might be used to describe very transient and short-lived emotions, for example, which does not necessarily preclude intensity.

      Delete
    22. It isn't authoritative, which everyone else recognizes. It is fairly clear from past posts that it is based on a combination of first-hand experience and second-hand knowledge. In language, it is considered an implicit given that when a proper noun is used - say, Potato - that you are talking about Potatoes "in general", and not every potato ever grown. So when I say french fries are made out of potatoes, it is assumed that in general they are, and that other variants (say, yams) can exist and are not excluded. They're just not explicitly stated in that sentence. If we didn't speak like this, then the degree of detail in speech would be excessive, if not pedantic. Everyone who is capable of using basic language knows and accepts this. It's impractical and, given your obvious attempts to troll, a poor choice of nitpicks to over-emphasize.

      Delete
  24. Anon,
    Were you diagnosed with borderline personality disorder? The "borderline" mind can be a bit hypersensitive. I like what your psychiatrist had to say though about not placing so much importance on a label, but I'm still curious about your diagnosis. Also, I agree that it can be very useful, and a "gift" as the psychiatrist said.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @ Ginger: No I was not "diagnosed". But I did a four years therapy.
      It helped me a lot and especially gave me a toolbox with tools I can use by myself to calm so of the more difficult reactions I have, such as panic attacks, the feeling of abandonment, emotional dependency...
      But until few years ago, I didn't understand very clearly the particular nature of my personality.
      I guess that because I had to be close to a Sociopath (a close relation, not a lover), I had then to dig a little more the problem that appears between her and me.
      It's because I've done researches on Narcissists/Antisocial personalities/Sociopaths that I understood that many Hypersensitive people have to deal with them, and then I confirmed that I was a Hypersensitive person.
      (I read a book many years ago about Hypersensitive people, but there was not really practical answers and I was at that time confused with many things through my therapy...so I didn't focused much on it).

      I think that my father and brother have Hypersensitive traits. But it seems that I'm more deeply "suffering" from it (lights, sounds, overwhelming emotions...).
      As for my mother, very long story, she has been diagnosed as a serious Paranoid and is now in a specialized place and followed by doctors. I have no idea of her sensibility (she looks like a loving mother, she did gave us a lot of love, but it seems like she can handle her emotions), but she is very intelligent and brought us in a way to develop our own intelligence.

      There is an observation I've made, I did attract a lot of "sociopathical" personalities in my life, since I was a child until today. And I've ended most of them, one after the other. I see it very clearly now.
      I'm still in contact nowadays with someone with these traits...but I will handle now the relation differently.
      I think also that my father is now living with someone who has this traits (she is now a psychologist and I know that she is doing a psychoanalysis "analysis" since many many years), her own daughter has strongly it too.

      Delete
    2. Some mental health professionals choose not dole out a diagnosis, and I can't say I blame them with all of the over pathologizing going on right now in the fields of psychology and psychiatry.

      Delete
    3. @ Dr.Ginger. I'm living in France, and I've heard that the approach is a little different from the american one (especially on behavioral therapies, which doesn't seem to have much value here, because some specialists here think that if you don't touch the deep things inside, just act on the symptoms, these symptoms would come back anyway in a different form).
      I've looked at the Borderline traits, mainly I would not recognize myself in it (but my husband looks much more like a borderline). I would say that I'm quite balanced in the management of my emotions, I'm not impulsive, not very extreme (more exigent, than extreme).
      I accept myself and my emotions since nearly always, this is who I am...like a sociopath thinks it is "normal" to have no direct emotions, I think that it's normal to feel deep emotions. I don't really suffer from it directly, I suffer sometimes to my non-adaptation to other people (especially my great twin friends...sociopaths!).

      I still ask myself if the fact that I was born and raised very close to my paranoid mother, means to someone with a kind of disease, that could never be cured, could have favored my deep emotional system.
      Maybe a technical radar not to fall in the madness of my mother world when I was young enough to be much influenced?
      And a great unconscious will to heal/save her.

      Delete

  25. Dr.Brave Help Me To Stop A Divorce And Save My Marriage Today?

    Hello to every one out here, am here to share the unexpected miracle that happened to me three days ago, My name is Jeffrey Dowling,i live in TEXAS,USA.and I`m happily married to a lovely and caring wife,with two kids A very big problem occurred in my family seven months ago,between me and my wife so terrible that she took the case to court for a divorce she said that she never wanted to stay with me again,and that she did not love me anymore So she packed out of my house and made me and my children passed through severe pain. I tried all my possible means to get her back,after much begging,but all to no avail and she confirmed it that she has made her decision,and she never wanted to see me again. So on one evening,as i was coming back from work,i met an old friend of mine who asked of my wife So i explained every thing to her,so she told me that the only way i can get my wife back,is to visit a spell caster,because it has really worked for her too So i never believed in spell,but i had no other choice,than to follow her advice. Then she gave me the email address of the spell caster whom she visited.(bravespellcaster@gmail.com}, So the next morning,i sent a mail to the address she gave to me,and the spell caster assured me that i will get my wife back the next day what an amazing statement!! I never believed,so he spoke with me,and told me everything that i need to do. Then the next morning, So surprisingly, my wife who did not call me for the past seven {7}months,gave me a call to inform me that she was coming back So Amazing!! So that was how she came back that same day,with lots of love and joy,and she apologized for her mistake,and for the pain she caused me and my children. Then from that day,our relationship was now stronger than how it were before,by the help of a spell caster . So, was now stronger than how it were before,by the help of a spell caster . So, i will advice you out there to kindly visit the same website http://bravespellcaster.yolasite.com,if you are in any condition like this,or you have any problem related to "bringing your ex back. So thanks to Dr Brave for bringing back my wife,and brought great joy to my family once again.{bravespellcaster@gmail.com} , Thanks.

    ReplyDelete
  26. M.E. you're killing me here!
    My sides hurt from laughing.

    You have no idea how someone could get so upset and show such indignation from being used? From their ego being damaged?

    You wrote like a 2000 word essay, full of projection, moral indignation, baseless accusations and assumptions. You went on and on how I am a tyrant, the " worst thing this world has to offer" and how badly you wish I did not exist...And I'm not even going to touch on the weak passive aggressive posts and attempts to manipulate :D

    All because I criticized you and caused a bit of damage to your ego...

    Oh but of course, someone using you is just soooo much better than criticising you, huh?

    Haha! This is too delightful!

    ReplyDelete
  27. Hollow folks are known for being EXTREMELY sensitive about being used, insulted or just ignored. They get truly sickened by things most folk would hardly notice. Their view is that the the people surrounding them should thank them for exploiting them or amusing themselves at their expense, but to have things the other way around..just the thought that this someday perhaps might happen in the future get them truly sickened.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Your view is a clear projection that you are trying to fulfill - it does not line up with actual sociopathy. You say this, because you want sociopaths to be vulnerable, and suffer.

      That is more in line with borderline and narcissism. Sociopaths actually are not sensitive to being used, insulted, or ignored. They can become annoyed by it, yes, but they are certainly not sensitive to it. While there is a lack of regret and inhibition that more freely allows for a counter-attack, they can just as well simply choose not to counter and walk away from it (again, without regret). Both responses are possible.

      You can "hurt" a sociopath, technically, but it is actually harder - not easier - than neurotypicals.

      Delete
    2. What, are you the sociopath whisperer, or something? You often make sweeping statements about sociopaths, as though your believing yourself to be one somehow qualifies you to speak for all of them, or to make authoritative assertions concerning how they all think and behave.

      ---"Sociopaths actually are not sensitive to being used, insulted, or ignored. They can become annoyed by it, yes, but they are certainly not sensitive to it."

      While I might agree that many sociopaths are not sensitive to such things- it is folly to pigeonhole all of them on this basis. Furthermore, your statement is, by semantic necessity, incorrect. Being "annoyed" by something requires that one be "sensitive" to an irritant.


      While there is a lack of regret and inhibition that more freely allows for a counter-attack, they can just as well simply choose not to counter and walk away from it (again, without regret). Both responses are possible.

      Delete
    3. You know as well as I do that it was a generalized statement, and as such is not consider 100% applicable to all sociopaths. It's about tendencies and way of thinking. When you are a sociopath who also studies sociopaths, it is natural that you understand them (due to first-hand experience and second-hand knowledge). Would you make the same argument as an empath? You may be an empath, but you don't know what empaths are like? That does not make sense. Nice try though.

      And no, being annoyed by something isn't about being sensitive. It's about responding to it. You responded to my statement with an attack - are you sensitive to what I had said, or are you just annoyed? Were you hurt by it?

      Delete
    4. You consider that an "attack"? Lol.

      To answer your question, of course not. I quite enjoy taking people to task on their fallacious statements. It gives me pleasure to rip into their arguments. One might say I have an especially "sensitive" bullshit detector.

      I may be an empath (not a scientifically valid term, although I understand what you mean by it). Does that mean that I can accurately predict how they will *all* think or behave in a myriad different circumstances? There is as much variability amongst "empaths" as amongst those on the sociopathic end of the spectrum.

      Only a narcissist with an inflated view of his own intellectual and deductive capacity, seeking to bolster his credibility as both an "expert" and a "sociopath", would be compelled to pigeonhole whole cross-sections of the population in accordance with his own limited, subjective observations and understanding of human thought processes, based upon such a narrow collection of traits.

      Nice try, though. ;)

      Delete
    5. That wasn't sarcasm. It was meant to clarify and point out the flaw in the criticism. You can tell by the word play, and by the very first sentence. The answer should have been "No" to being hurt, which was to provide a case in point as to where things apply. It should have been obvious.

      Delete
    6. One thing to keep in mind is the magnitude to which someone is being used, insulted, or ignored. Say you go to lunch with friends every day and every time you say, "M.E. is really skinny. That bitch. I hate her." and it gets back to her a couple of weeks later. She probably won't become sensitive to you insulting her. Now say every day you run up to her, while there are a lot of people around, and scream out, "You're really skinny you fucking cunt! I hate you! Die, bitch, die!" I imagine that she would become sensitive to it, at least eventually.

      Delete
    7. You already got the point. Though it isn't an issue to be concerned with - Anon's post was overstated, and A was trolling.

      Delete
    8. Bobby, I don't think Alter was trolling.
      She actually has a good point. One that several people, including of course myself, tried to get through your thick skull.
      I simply got bored with you, so gave up trying for a while.

      You are some kind of fucked up, but most certainly not a sociopath.

      You have pretty much no sociopathic traits. You are a middle aged VIRGIN who doesn't drink, doesn't indulge in any actual antisocial activities.
      The testaments to your sociopathy remain that you:
      *skipped classes
      *gossiped to some friend about his wife
      *dealt with a *restrained* nutjob
      *endangered a person with what sounded like scleroderma by not wearing a mask in her isolation room

      It is truly sad how desperately you cling to the label of sociopath.

      What you described of your youth sounds like classic ASD. *Not* ASPD.
      They knew almost nothing about ASD back then. Especially not in a school like that. That's why they might have been using the term "anti social".
      You would be surprised how many aspies got labelled with that term because they were socially awkward or outcasts and people didn't understand what "anti social" actually means.

      But in your narcissism, you still fancy yourself a crusader. A shining beacon of what a sociopath can be.

      Delete
    9. I know you get bored, and create entertainment by attacking, but repeating the same material for the fifth time diminishes the spectacle. Keep in mind to vary the attack, or else from an outside viewpoint, spectators lose the attraction because of the repetition. It is well written and well delivered as always though. Just make sure to infuse new material into it.

      Think of character attacks like boxing. You're not only playing your opponent, but also the crowd. This is because it is public and overt. Repeating the same move, even a well-executed one, creates predictability, which not only reduces its effectiveness but also its appearance. Change up the moves, and you'll not only find it more effective, but also bolster your outlook with others.

      Delete
    10. Haha!
      Bobby, you have never been able to read or manipulate me for shit. But it's still sweet that you try.

      As for attacks, fresher material would require actually paying closer attention to your essays and I don't have the patience necessary to wade through all that bullshit. This "attack" material might not be new to you, but you have still failed to ever come up with a counter that is not a condescending mini lecture about how I should be speaking with you ;)

      Put it to you this way, if you cried every time I kicked you in the balls (lightly, we are just playing after all), would it make it all that much less fun if I was to do it again in a similar fashion, at random times, when I was bored enough to bother?

      And you should have figured out by now that I don't give a rat's ass about my outlook with others, so that tactic falls pretty flat.

      Funniest thing is that the "attack" is all information you eagerly volunteered in a desperate bid to prove what a sociopath you are.
      And why do you seem to think that people reading today will have witnessed out previous play dates?

      Oh ok...I might be adding a little fuel to some other fires. Might be opening up people's eyes as to who they are getting all that lovely wisdom from. And most important of all, I simply enjoy kicking you...
      There, never say I don't give you every chance to understand my motives and desires, to counterstrike.

      Delete
    11. That's too bad. But at least it is better constructed than the usual vegitopath spam. I suppose there is that much going for it.

      Delete
    12. Aww...bless :)
      That's the counter your "sociopathic" mind could come up with? Pretending, yet again, that I'm simply trolling?

      You disappoint me, Bobby.

      Delete
    13. Conflict for the sake of stimulating repartee is more stimulating for me on the repartee-side of things than the conflict-side. It's a matter of individual taste, and isn't personal.

      Delete
    14. Interesting...
      Especially considering that I long since said that you have no real charm or sense of humour.


      I think you like to avoid these challenges because let's face it, there is nothing genuinely sociopathic about you.
      And for all your talk of being a manipulative charmer, you couldn't manipulate a $30 whore with $50.

      Delete
    15. Snarky, but see how that was repetitive? Remember what we discussed about trying new avenues - experiment a little.

      Delete
    16. Nah, I'm good. But you're still trying to deflect, huh?

      So I have taught you not to be so defensive after all
      *wiping tear of pride*
      Who's the cynical bastard that said old aspie dogs can't learn new tricks?

      Delete
  28. It seems that the sociopathic response during social interactions is sometimes delayed by the effort to create the own artificial persona. A sociopaths was astonished once. This feeling break through by suddenly laughing. It sounded as if trying to keep contenance before laughing. So, part of the deficit of feelings might be due to the own decision to allow them or not.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I don't quite understand what you are saying.

      However, the deficit of feelings is not actually due by choice (in allowing/disallowing it). It's directly neurological with deficits in processing in the amygdala and the orbitofrontal cortex. This is due to both genetics and environmental development.

      I'm not sure of what you are saying in the rest of it. A sociopath can be surprised by emotional responses - both in others, but also in sensing it happen in yourself (which you are aware of, and can dispassionately observe in yourself, due to sensing the contrast from when you expect to feel nothing). That being said, when that happens is out of your control, as it is sporatic and unpredictable.

      Delete
    2. The habit and necessity not to act out (bad) impulses probably flattens emotional life in general. If you poison the weeds you prevent any plant. Askesticism-like. It might be advantageous.

      Delete
    3. I suppose, maybe? At the very least it makes things less exciting or provocative. But it is advantageous, in terms of better social interaction and staying out of prison. There is a give and take.

      Delete
    4. Hi Bob,
      I have a question.
      I've just been having a conversation with a relative, I'm not speaking to his wife (who is quite unbearable and went too far with me few months ago. They both are much older than I am).
      We spoke about a schedule for a kind of business we have in common. We spoke maybe 20 minutes, then his wife came and sat at the same table in the garden, and didn't say nothing. Then, while we where speaking quite focused on something she started to "throw in the air" questions to her husband...about the schedule (like not really important and urgent questions).
      I didn't answer and didn't even look at her (like if she didn't say nothing), her husband didn't answer too. She tried few more time and then he answered briefly.
      She has been doing this manyyyy time in the past (I know her well).

      Of course, in my own point of view, it is exasperating...she could at least, ask meaningful questions (interesting ones) and it is of course very rude. But I guess that what she wants is just interrupt us (I imagine to say "I'm here, I must be the center of attention too"), and show some kind of power on the situation? I guess she's building in her mind a kind of competition with me?
      But to me the way she's doing it is empty...she wants to be with us, ok...but I will not stay 10 minutes watching her standing still. She is asking questions, ok...but the question is empty...there is nothing in the question...Why is she not using an intelligent stratagem so we can truly notice and admire her?
      In your point of view...does that remind you something? what is the deep meaning of this kind of attitude?

      Delete
    5. For the question of the other Anonymous 2:58:
      I have seen exactly the situations you describe. Looks like the person is taking time to find something to answer back (which is most of the time out of context or very empty/flat). There is also the laugh, which sounds to me very particular...the sound of the laugh is not as usual.
      This laugh always appears at a moment when you don't expect someone to laugh.

      Delete
    6. The woman is trying to inject herself into the conversation - to get socially involved. She might not be interested in the contents of the conversation, but she is wanting to converse. She wants to talk, or believes that she needs to talk. It might be because she is lonely at that moment, or that she seeks attention (which is stimulation). Take a look at her other behavior - does she seek attention elsewhere?

      Delete
    7. The fact is that she's doing this also when I'm not with her husband, but other people. And she would do it also with other people, when i'm not there. I deduce then that it is a not a question of jealousy regarding her husband. But a question of "attention" given to her.
      About the other way to seek attention...she wants to feed the whole planet and hardly understand "no" and is always trying to force people.
      If she's bored, if you don't visit her, she will find a fake reason to come and visit you. She would never stay long, maybe feeling quickly relieved as she get what she needed: attention (but forced one).
      ...her close family says she is "intellectually limited"..I'm not sure about this, but she is not very clever...I see her "coming" everytime with her fake/poor plan.
      I'm not sure she realises anything about her inner system...

      Delete
    8. I know this guy that posts on a sociopath blog rambling about his attention seeking aunt. At length. With no discernible relevance or point...

      I wonder if he realises anything about his inner system?

      Delete
    9. I was speaking about this because some sociopaths do realise about their inner system...and surely a lot more than we think.
      But in her particular case, she don't seem to get any distance with her own acts.

      Delete
  29. I've always had one motto "use em and lose em."
    Contrary to what the empaths say, self interest is golden. If this were not so, the invisible hand of adam smith wouldn't be driven predominantly by what others call greed.

    Neutral indifference to suffering
    inconsequential monstrous
    laughter, void
    skin deep

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. well that's fine and dandy until you have nothing left to draw others close enough to let you use them. when you are old, smelly, lacking cash, and your desperation is no longer something you can hide long enough to charm a new sucker- then what?

      Are you "worth" nothing? Is your life finished even if your body isn't? Or is it possible that in that state of worthlessness you are able to accept that maybe the kindness that comes your way at the point might have an origin that is something you can't comprehend?

      Kindness seems stupid and weak to those who imagine that they are superior. They assume that acts of goodwill are payment in advance for something that the giver wants. In short, it's perceived as simply another form of transactional behavior that is "enforced" by guilt. And the sociopath "wins" by accepting the kindness and "losing 'em" without the motivation of guilt to force them to stick around and fulfill their side of the transaction.

      So what about the times you seriously have nothing to give but kindness is offered anyway? It means you are worth more than whatever you can offer on a transactional level in that person's eyes.

      Maybe you are in the place of thinking that any time someone is unexpectedly helpful or pleasant they have an agenda that is tied up in what you can give them to reciprocate. I don't ask you to think differently- I'd just like to pose the question: What if there is another motivation out there that has nothing to do with transactions?

      If you haven't experienced it you will likely declare it doesn't exist, but the only way to truly know that is to be stripped of all ego and experience your own worthlessness/impotence. Life hasn't brought you there yet. It will. (only saying this because to be mortal is to suffer this eventual reality)

      My hope for you, Sardonic Friend, is that place of suffering will be a place you do not end up stuck in, and that you are lifted out of it by something bigger than your ability to "stay in the game" with transactional behavior.
      You are worth more than what you have to offer (whether pretended or real). You just don't understand why yet.



      Do you lack the imagination to consider

      Delete
    2. MachE, I think you are asking Sardonic to put his mask back on. I personally like the fact that the sociopaths on this site can take their masks off. It is edifying and educational. We need to know. And in return, we can explain as well. You have a wonderful way of explaining things. I always look for your posts. So do a lot of people on the site, both sociopaths and non. You make us think. You put words to very complex feelings, personality traits, life events, etc., even sometimes poetically.

      But perhaps you have not fully lost your innocence as far as sociopathy is concerned. A few of your recent posts makes me think that you still believe that sociopaths can be "redeemed", that they can understand on an emotional level what it is to give and take, that they can feel something more lasting than just emotions, that they can learn to care. They cannot. Asking them to care the same way we do is like asking a blind person to look and see. Or closer, even, asking an autistic person to love and care. They just cannot. If you have a friendship with a sociopath, it can only be a transactional friendship (thank you for giving me the words again).

      Humans are to sociopaths a piece of equipment they have to use to live and survive. They love to generate emotions in us because it tells them how to use the equipment better. You have to reconcile yourself with this idea and keep reminding yourself that is just how the world works for them. They are so good at being one of us that we just forget.

      I am not angry or bitter about it. And it certainly has not changed the emotional trust I put in “normal” people. But I have had to learn to deal with the transactional nature of my relationship with my sociopath friend and shed my pink tinted glasses. I only know one sociopath, but I know him well. And I know if I cease to be useful to him, he will be out of my life. This is why I have a tough time calling this a friendship. But for the time being he gives me plenty in return. Not only is he useful to me on a purely transactional level, but he also makes me think. He entertains me. He is very endearing. He helped me grow more inner peace by making me take a long and hard look at myself. I actually believe I get more from him than he does from me (and I feel no guilt whatsoever about it). He once told me a couple of years ago that he had never had any feelings towards anybody, and that I was changing that, and that he was not sure if he liked it… I think you can imagine how much I wanted to believe it.

      OldAndWise

      Delete
    3. Old and wise,

      I liked your comment, and a lot of what you had to say, but there is one aspect of it that I got caught up on, and thought was interesting. Isn't interesting that a lot of empaths perceive sociopaths as somehow being inhuman because they don't always process emotions quite the way that others do?

      Delete
    4. Dr. Ginger,

      I have also heard others say that sociopaths are not human. I even have heard my sociopath friend referring to himself (jokingly?) as an Alien... I did in fact think twice about writing "Humans are to sociopaths a piece of equipment..." because I thought it might be misinterpreted for that very reason. And I am very glad you are asking.

      To me, sociopaths are human beings, absolutely. Same with people with Down Syndrome, Autistic people, conjoined twins, etc. If you re-read my post, you are the one who is not including Sociopaths in the Human race. In my post, I am suggesting that to a sociopath, ALL humans are viewed as a piece of equipment, including human beings that happen to be sociopathic.

      Makes more sense?

      M.E. posted not too long ago a story about an aging sociopathic woman (with cancer, iirc) ruining her sociopathic physician or surgeon (and very much enjoying it). Everybody is game for them. They don’t give other sociopaths special treatment. Nobody gets a out of jail free card.

      OldAndWise

      Delete
    5. Yes, which is why I said it is interesting that empaths, meaning more in a general sense. I often feel like an alien too, but probably for different reasons, and I have been in denial of my human form. I just think we're kind of a strange looking species. I seem to recall that post, and I don't necessarily recall the sociopath who if I remember right was a lawyer, necessarily ruining the doctor, but she did say some mean things to bring him down a notch, and mostly likely gain an upper hand in that dynamic. I can't say I'm any less guilty of thinking about power regularly in my interactions with others, and thinking of ways of how I can be perceived as being higher up on the social hierarchy, but I think that's just borderline stuff. I'm not sure I would necessarily be abusive though unless triggered in to feminist mode :):) I wonder what that dynamic would look like with two sociopaths trying to ruin one another?

      Delete
    6. Excellent questions Empath. But they presuppose one thing: That I do not think ahead.

      The behaviors which generate endearing emotions in others act as insurance against future failure. I have plenty of 'friends'. Now, if it is free, take it. That includes charity. Pride, like other emotions is worthless. There is always worth in people--what you can get out of them.

      As far as actions without motive, actions that don't conform to the classical comprehension of transactions--understand that all social behavior is a transaction, especially charity. According to those who perform it, it is "a reward in itself" or something of that nature. Narcissists are prone to it and it serves well as a means of self-aggrandizement for politicians, preachers, and the like, but I don't grasp why anyone would be worth spending that much time on.

      As for 'use em and lose em' it might appear callous.
      That is because it is callous. The reality of the matter is if I use some one and then don't return the favor, am I a 'bad guy"?
      No in fact I am neither bad or nor good. The whole dichotomy is a false paradigm. If someone does something for you, independent of motive, and you do not, by unspoken social convention, return the favor, are you in the wrong? Why should you do something in return if it is not explicitly required, beyond the necessity of maintaining social insurance?

      Because an action performed without an explicit contract or requirement of return, is charity. Charity requires nothing of the recipient...should expect nothing of the recipient. But to the individuals such as I who understand this and accept what is given, we are considered in the negative, selfish. But is charity a virtue, as society understands it, if it comes with the equally selfish expectation of some return? Consequently I laugh at suckers. And if they don't get anything out of a transaction, if they got the short end of the stick, so what? It is not my problem--they were the ones that failed to perform due diligence, traded on some unspoken non-rule, ignorantly hoping, rather than demanding, for something in return.

      Contract are only made when both parties make their demands known.
      Lack of communication, such as unspoken convention, is an excellent environment for taking advantage, strife, division, and general chaos.
      Which is why I communicate clearly what I want in daily life. Everyone else I have gained something from and got shorted, just blindly assumed I knew what they wanted. If people are not even going to bother making their desires known, then obviously they must think they aren't important to demand what they want out of others and life. And if others don't think their wants are important enough to speak up, why should I?

      Concede nothing that isn't demanded, ethical or not, otherwise it's just charity, and your hurting nothing..or it is false charity and in that case that got beat at their own game.

      Delete
  30. Some folks here are trying to "sanitize" psychopaths by telling bedtime-stories. They use language-games, pointless "how many angels can dance on a pin"--shite to confuse. FACT: psychopaths are extremely sensitive when it comes to being made fools/suckers/marks. This does not mean they cry about it at night, it means they get ready to chew carpets in pure utter maniac furore. A psychopath will NEVER let himself be used, by any means, as "tools" for others. Stating that is just BS. A more sensitive being to slight insults or patronizing talk does not exist.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It is more clever to adopt one permanent and reliable haracter than acting like a turncoat. A polite, patient, objective and somehow unemotional character is generally valid in the world and hardly susceptable to be attacked. It is probably well chosen for certain goals and peer groups.

      Delete
  31. I have a question:
    - If a Sociopath relative (we know each other well) is aware of his antisocial/sociopath attitude/symptoms/personality, but has never said it to me. And if I send him a magazine article, with not any comment on it, about antisocial behaviour/sociopathy...what would be his reaction? would he understand that I've understand?
    - And if the sociopath is not really aware of the psychological terms for his sociopathy, then what would be his reaction?
    Thanks

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. There are no reliable ways to predict someone's reaction if there is no real information about them.
      Any answers you get will be pure guesswork.

      But I'm curious, if you know each other well, why don't you just talk to him?
      Sending him an article just sounds so passive aggressive, like a weak attempt to gaslight.

      Personally, I was pissed when my family started leaving Martha Stout's book lying open to convenient passages. It's just so weak.

      What's wrong with saying "I found this quite interesting article on sociopathy. Would love to get your opinion on it"?Then actually discussing it with him like rational adults.

      Delete
    2. Bite me,

      Were you diagnosed with ASPD?

      Delete
    3. I have never been diagnosed with anything. Unless you count M.E. diagnosing me as a malignant narcissist ;)

      I don't trust shrinks (nothing personal), so would never see one voluntarily. I like being the way I am.
      Have managed to keep myself relatively under control with my husband's help.

      Was made to talk to a shrink for a few sessions because of an incident at uni, but ended up lying my ass off and never coming back.

      Worked in mental health for some months. Got close to CNC there. After a while, he started talking to me about psychopaths, asking my honest opinions on things. I once asked him why, he just smiled and said "come on, you're a clever girl".

      Then a family friend put my family onto that damned Martha Stout.

      Delete
    4. Are you from the UK?

      Delete
    5. I'm Australian

      Delete
    6. Thanks Bite me,
      That's a good, why not just speak about it like adults?
      Because I don't know how she consider herself, I don't know if she is ready to accept a frank conversation, maybe she will try to escape with lies or sending back to me my questions.
      It doesn't look logical to me to speak frankly to someone in disguise (means doesn't want to be recognize OR could not act any other way)...does it sounds logic to you?

      For me sending an article, would mean "I know now, but I'm not asking you to speak about it".

      Delete
    7. Ok, question becomes, why are you so intent on letting her know?
      You want to show how clever you are? You want to tell her you understand and want to support her?...
      What is your motive here?

      And let's say she is self aware, but is trying to hide.
      Out of nowhere you send her an article about sociopaths. A few thoughts might enter the mind: "Why did he send me that?
      Does he think he is one?
      Does he think I'm a sociopath, but doesn't want to talk about it? What does he know?
      Who has he been taking to about this?..." you get the gist.
      Many sociopaths are paranoid. Keep that in mind.

      If she is not self aware, your little "I know what you did last summer" stunt is probably going to confuse her, but accomplish nothing.

      As for talking frankly, I did not mean to flat out tell her "I know you're a sociopath" because that's usually a bad idea.

      Tread more softly, use tact.
      For example: saying "I read this article, would love your opinion..."

      Depending on her reaction, go from there.

      If she gets defensive, or starts ranting about how they are scum and should be killed, best to leave it and figure out different tactic.

      If she seems open to discussion, maybe telling her that you've been doing some research and a few of the traits they describe sound very familiar... Talking to her at her own pace, not pushing or making accusations.

      If plan was to offer understanding and support, then letting her know she can talk to you. That you love her and are there for her.

      If you intend to just show how clever you are, she will probably see through it. Might lie, turn on you and fuck you up. But then it would be your own damn fault :)

      Delete
    8. Thanks Bite me.
      I think that I'm just looking for a subtle way to advise her that I know, and what I am expecting on that, is that when she's kind of attacking me, she knows I would make the link now on the psychological behavior.
      She is a psychologist now, and is having a Psychanalyse since mannnyyy years.

      She gave me some advises about my own family situation, (good ones and without manipulation), she is sharing some psychology books with me, that's why I was thinking to share an article.

      I guess she knows what is the "problem/diagnosis", but it is not because you know that you are healed.
      She has send very early her children to psychologists, and I guess that's because she was aware of something (a risk?).
      Her son was not early raised by her, but by her mother...(I'll one day ask why), and doesn't seem to have typical sociopathical traits, but her daughter, has all the characteristics unfortunately...but I think that she knows it, and is living a quite isolated life.
      The children are both adults now.

      The aim of this, for me, is to pacify our relations. And it will be also through answer her in the good way when she is attacking me...I didn't know before about all this sociopaths things, and didn't quite understand the point of her sudden attacks...

      Delete

Comments on posts over 14 days are SPAM filtered and may not show up right away or at all.

Join Amazon Prime - Watch Over 40,000 Movies

.

Comments are unmoderated. Blog owner is not responsible for third party content. By leaving comments on the blog, commenters give license to the blog owner to reprint attributed comments in any form.