Tuesday, February 25, 2014

Richard 'The Iceman" Kuklinski

A reader writes:
Definitely worth watching all of the interviews/documentaries (and HBO has made a few over the years) with famed mafia hitman Richard Kuklinski, especially the one with the psychiatrist.

What is especially relevant to your blog would be the the end of the interview, where the psychiatrist does a pretty good job explaining in succinct terms the genetic and environmental causes of ASPD and how both factors work together, in a way that makes a lot of sense without having to bring a lot of biological jargon into it, and without having to resort to chicken/egg arguments.

Kuklinski's anxiety and contained anger while listening to him is palpable.

The very end is quite powerful.

145 comments:

  1. Now that's a psychopath.

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  2. The best part in the documentary is when he describes how he shot aguy in the head in with a crossbow just to see if it would work.

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  3. He gave his wife a knife and the oppurtunity to stab him in the back, but she didn't.
    I would of done it.

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    1. you're stupid bitch
      R.I.P. Richard Kuklinski first ubermensch

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  4. And this is why you don't abuse children.

    His father deserved castration.

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  5. that part is the best because we can tell he remembers it as if something very funny. he likes it when the surprise is one that makes the kill interesting. given the change of methods, he liked to see how things worked differently with different weapons. unlike dexter and the ritual killers. he is a murder tool, not exactly a serial killer... he killed first for revenge, then for equipment testing ( prototype development for future product/service) and then offered his services.

    so much random killing, anyone getting paranoid yet? i avoid going out at night, never use atm after dark.

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  6. My question:

    If, from the top of our society down, we're SO educated enough to realize what ASPD is and how well it can be used for the positives the psychiatrist spoke of, why is it that we are not searched out at younger ages and "manipulated" into becoming one of these fantastic members of society? Or are all the fighter aircraft full currently?

    In other words, "It is random and we don't REALLY give a shit so whatever just happens to end up is beyond our control but we feel it necessary to inform you you're wrong for not caring either because you're "bad"."

    Anyone else hear a bunch of blah too?

    It's almost like they choose the psychopath to be the entity of power in the sphere that is their reality.

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  7. @Anon ... I imagine searching it out would be very difficult. Often parents with of ASPD children are afraid of the social repercussions of outing their child through diagnosis. Even if there is a diagnosis there is patient/client confidentiality so it can't be published.

    I suppose an agency could petition the public in general to parents with a tagline of personality guidance and 'rehabilitation' but what kind of parents want to admit their children are so different, let alone subject them willingly to psychological manipulation? People, especially parents, are often protective of their children and maybe moreso, the implications that their child's 'disorder' is a reflection upon themselves.

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  8. I was surprised at the psychiatrist's use of the words 'bad' and 'flawed' too. What purpose did they serve, apart from heightening the drama, in a professional context? Was he trying to get a rise out of Kuklinski for the cameras? Or was he trying to distance himself from him as a fellow human being? He appeared somehow intent on explaining *his* morals and interpretation of 'good' for the benefit of his own ego. What's the difference between a fighter pilot and a contract killer, hmmm? One's socially sanctioned as a ‘white hat’ and the other's not.

    That said Part 5 made for intriguing viewing. I wonder if Kuklinski always speaks in a cold, steely tone or only when he's trying to control his anger? His shallow breathing and pursed lips gave it away. Hate strengthens willpower and cools desire so I imagine that a lot of people in jail must use it to stay alive. I would have liked to have known *what* Kuklinski focused his hate on, and what techniques he used to hate in solitude, to enable him to continue to 'put one [lonely] foot in front of the other.' The production editing made it look like it could have been his father. But was it?

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  9. Nyx I could concur with your point of view, but my point was that if people were honest and caring like they say they are then just maybe SOME of the problems wouldn't be so big.

    The truth is, regardless of what personality disorder you stem from (because they are all disorders to me) it is easiest to simply write someone off as lost.

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  10. I WRITE IN CAPITAL LETTERS RESPONDING TO HavenNyx AT 6:48

    "Often parents with of ASPD children are afraid of the social repercussions of outing their child through diagnosis. Even if there is a diagnosis there is patient/client confidentiality so it can't be published."
    THIS SOUNDS LIKE PARENTS ARE NOT THE ONES RESPONSIBLE. I BELIEVE THEY ARE, BOTH WITH THEIR GENES AND THE WAY THEY ARE RAISING THEIR CHILDREN. THERE IS SOME ABUSE GOING ON IN THE UPBRINGING. IF DAD TELLS YOU YOU ARE NOT AS GOOD AS YOUR BROTHER IN MATH, THAT'S ABUSE. IF YOUR MOM IS LAZY AND CAN'T RELATE TO YOUR LEVEL OF GIFTED BRAIN AND CAN'T FIND ENOUGH CHALLENGES FOR YOU THAT IS ALSO ABUSE OF TALENT. ANY CHILD FRUSTRATED WITH WHATEVER THE REASON MAY BE, AT LEAST IN HIS MIND, IS ABUSED.

    SO, BECOME A BIG BROTHER GOVERNMENT. ASK THE CHILDREN IN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL, THEY WILL TELL YOU WHAT SHIT IS GOING ON IN THEIR HOME. BUT THEN WHAT?

    THERE IS NO ROOM FOR CONTROL BEFORE THE FACT. IT IS UP TO THE KID TO SURVIVE IN THIS SHITTY ENVIRONMENT. IF YOU WANT TO HELP YOURSELF, DON'T HAVE CHILDREN AND START TREATING YOURSELF THE WAY YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN ALL ALONG.

    "I suppose an agency could petition the public in general to parents with a tagline of personality guidance and 'rehabilitation' but what kind of parents want to admit their children are so different, let alone subject them willingly to psychological manipulation?"
    YOU MAKE THESE PARENTS SOUND LIKE ANGELS. YOU MAY BE A PARENT WITH A DYSFUCTIONAL CHILD. IF SO, START TAKING A DEEP LOOK AT YOURSELF.

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  11. I admit, my parents played a huge part in me being a psychopath, they never punished me as a child, i was allowed do anything i wanted, assault after assault, they still keep saying "there's a good kid in there somewhere" how stupid can you get?

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  12. at 7:13, I was giving excessively nice examples of abuse just to communicate different forms. look at kuklinski's parents. a father who beats all his boys, a mother looks away. the beatings cause death of one brother and the family lies to the police and say he fell off the stairs. i mean, they operate like mafia already. if your family is mafia, you work for mafia when you grow up. i feel shame and guilt when i watch kuklinski talk for what was done to him and his remaining brother (who also was a criminal).

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  13. anon at 7:18. that is how parents create npd's. there is a way to turn all this around if you are willing to parent yourself, and simply respect your parents from a distance without doing anything to please them anymore. they are not angels. they did that because they believed they could only have a good child, so they kept lying. pathological liars come in many forms, denial of reality is one.

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  14. There is something that separates a psychopath from a sociopath, if this was any other criminal he would have been caught long before, same goes for Dahmer, and all the other high profile killers, look into those vacant eyes.

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    1. Actually that is not the case. Every "high profile killer" as you call them; each one is different. No two are alike. Wake up and realize there is a spectrum of sociopathy and if you want to see vacant eyes i have a 1000 mile stare from ptsd.

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  15. as an empath i feel it in my bones that i could have become kuklinksi. only if i had an outside mentor whom i loved (say elementary school teacher) and only if i felt loved at school i could have rescued myself and run away from this family for good as soon as i could. but he was bullied at school and he killed the bully. i wish he killed his dad before the bully. that would have locked him up.

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  16. I admit, i am a pathological liar, i lie more than i tell the truth. In a way i am furious at my parents, Ive never blamed myself for anything, i always shift the blame, when i was a kid i used to beat up girls who lived on my block, this one time i chased this chick and pulled her by the hair onto the ground, she got up and slapped me, i ran up and told my parents, they were furious, i will never forget it, they flipped at this girl, i think at that point i realized i could get away with anything, and i have ever since.

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  17. anon 7:28... one of your parents must have been a good liar for you to even get the notion. any such memories? say mother lying about why she could not get dinner ready that day? or dad suggesting to lie about the reason you had to miss school one day?

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  18. It's said that the worst psychopaths, the likes of Kuklinski were brilliant good kids who had a very harsh childhood which resulted in his homicides, he despised his dad, i think every time he killed those gangsters, he was killing his father, same goes for bundy, he was killing his mother every time he killed those girls.

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  19. @Anon 7:13... I had no intention of making these parents out to be angels or not responsible. Especially if the disorder was created or furtherd by abuse or a destructive home life it's going to make a parent more aware of the social implications. Getting help for their child or outing what they are will bring into question WHY they are the way they are and all eyes will inevitably turn to the parents. An abusive parent will do everything they can to continue to deny that their is a problem (because this means they will have to identify their is a problem in themselves) or deny responsibility for their childs behavior.

    Ask at school? First you have to get a kid to talk about this. That's not as straightforward as it seems. When all a child knows is abuse and neglect it can be impossible to make them believe that there is a safer environment or safer options for them. The fear that they will get in trouble for telling on their parents, will automatically make them believe that they will be punished even worse by the abusive parent(s) and keep them quiet. Fear is often stronger than hope. Not only that, but when all you know is a set of 'caregivers', it's very difficult to imagine a life without them. Despite the abuse, a child might still cling to the only home he/she knows. There's no simple solution.

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  20. my cousin is a sociopath. a brilliant mind who could have been an amazing scientist pushed into working $5 an hour because mom wanted so. mom clear npd. the cousin extensive gambler, pathological liar. the cousin's own child...> total mess in in disguise of a PhD, no ability to connect.

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  21. @ It's the parents. Yes they are both liars, my mom has lied to me five times already this morning, i made her buy me bottled water when she was out, i always say i am going to pay her for them and i never do, so she lied, said my aunt paid for them so I'd have to give the money, little things like that.

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  22. @Anon 7:13... I had no intention of making these parents out to be angels or not responsible. Especially if the disorder was created or furtherd by abuse or a destructive home life it's going to make a parent more aware of the social implications. Getting help for their child or outing what they are will bring into question WHY they are the way they are and all eyes will inevitably turn to the parents. An abusive parent will do everything they can to continue to deny that their is a problem (because this means they will have to identify their is a problem in themselves) or deny responsibility for their childs behavior.

    Ask at school? First you have to get a kid to talk about this. That's not as straightforward as it seems. When all a child knows is abuse and neglect it can be impossible to make them believe that there is a safer environment or safer options for them. The fear that they will get in trouble for telling on their parents, will automatically make them believe that they will be punished even worse by the abusive parent(s) and keep them quiet. Fear is often stronger than hope. Not only that, but when all you know is a set of 'caregivers', it's very difficult to imagine a life without them. Despite the abuse, a child might still cling to the only home he/she knows. There's no simple solution.

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  23. Lol, he can't be that brilliant, i bleed my parents dry, i won't have to work a day in my life, until i want to.

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  24. A sociopath doesn't have abusive parents usually, probably abusive in the sense of letting them run amok, but not physically abusive.

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  25. in an indirect style of conversation you can learn a lot about the parents. you can also give little drawing assignments in different situations, say 'draw the scene where a child spilled the milk.' there are experts on this.

    i'm not really suggesting a witch-hunt, although if i were an elementary school teacher i'd definitely use writing and drawing to learn more about what's going on in these kids' upbringing and try to balance. we have to find productive outlets for children where they can focus for a long time as opposed to keeping them idle or pushing aggressively in the directions they don't want to go.

    it would be fair to suggest elementary school teachers are trained, but such insight from limited observation plus the proper execution may be very difficult to teach to even the teachers.

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  26. NPD parents try to keep the kid wrapped in a bubble, it will be funny when the little narc butchers them in their sleep.

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  27. anon 7:39. then they surely failed at managing your talents and pushing you off the nest.

    to convince a child s/he is no good on his own, that parents can provide the child with whatever the child wants is a sure way to keep the child enslaved.

    you sound like a guy who could never marry because no woman could ever give him the unconditional love sweet mom did. the child who is convinced he is the evil in the picture.

    start forming a questioning mind about your parents and their reasons for accepting your bullshit. if that's what they made you to believe unconditional love is, trust me they brainwashed you. the rest of the world will never ever treat you the way they did. the world expects you to give to give back. what do you really have to give? kuklinski offered contract killing. and you?

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  28. "I've got a great idea. Let's find all the psychopaths as kids and put them in a room to make them be good people. What could possibly go wrong?"

    Yeah. Clearly, that's a brilliant plan.

    /sarcasm

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  29. I generally avoid relationships, i loathe intimacy in any form, a relationship is purely built on image with me, i won't walk next to a woman if she is flawed, she will ruin my image.

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  30. anon 7:54 your image in your mother's eyes, particularly. no woman could be up to her expectations for her never-at-fault son.

    in your home there will be many pictures of you and your mom. you will take her valentine's day gifts, even romantic ones. you'll take her on trips. and, hopefully, she'll die sooner than later for you to take a shot at normal life. if you love your mom (and certainly can't f..k her, you are bound to feel disgusted around woman because subconsciously they are mom and how can you get intimate with them).

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  31. @ it's the parents. When i am in a relationship with a girl who is starving for love and acceptance, it makes me want to physically abuse them, shoot down their self esteem and completely destroy them, i was overindulged as a child but i can't explain why i loathe those sorts.

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  32. I treat her very badly, as i said i loathe intimacy and i am disguisted at how much love i got as a child, i hate love.

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  33. anon 8:00 am.. believe me there is a reason. it cold well be your mom was naked around you when you were very young, she did some subtle shit that you actually deep down as wrong and disgust. i've seen this with my own eyes. a friend was nursing a 5 year old, a steady source of oxytocin. try to remember, or ask mom when you stopped demanding that she nursed you. phrase the questions in a way you were curious about you as a child (not about her as a mother when you were young). ask her if she would have preferred being with a man like you as opposed your dad. see what spills out of that.

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  34. Her father never gave her any attention when she was younger, she has lots of brothers and sisters, i think she tried to compensate by turning me into some ideal figure.

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  35. That's why I'm so good as spotting weakness, i had this dummy around from day one.

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  36. anon 8:05.. see, that's what I mean. these moms turn their sons into their love objects, but not the healthy mother-son, but a confused bullshit relationship.

    i don't know how old you are but you can grab this by the balls. you are not her lover, period. accept that you have an unhealthy mother who can't set you free/independent. honestly, get some treatment specifically for this and somehow prove yourself that it's the child in you who is extending mom to every other woman. one data point. can't categorize the rest of the world, no matter how important this data point was. and, don't hate her. she is not doing this shit consciously. just free yourself from her, and don't assume anyone who slightly reminds you of her is just like her.

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  37. I don't want to change, nothing happened like what you are referring to, that is disturbing. She spoils any child who comes around, but only if they are good looking, girls and boys.

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  38. kuklinski enjoyed his murders when the people he murdered looked like his dad...

    anon 8:05.. you are enjoying killing relationships with people who look like your mom.

    i surely am doing a very similar shit myself, so don't think that i'm strong for clear separation of parent vs the rest of the world. this is a struggle for humanity, we all are extensions of our parents, hard to go for a clean kill and reach complete freedom in action. got to begin again, start over, once in a while. a rebirth of sorts, with imaginary parents if not yourself as parent-substitute.

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  39. Does it cause NPD?

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  40. change toward freedomJanuary 18, 2011 at 8:24 AM

    i am of the opinion only a child who lost his natural curiosity would oppose an attempt at change.

    kuklinski said he had no love but hate. then answered the question what hate does for him. his answer was that it keeps him moving, one foot and then the other.

    what moves me is change. seeking challenging circumstances, adventure travel, random acts of kindness, an all around expectation of a nice surprise every day even when i don't leave home. freedom to do anything my heart desires that i don't have to spend a fortune to get... freedom to turn my back to shit when shit comes my way, or reflect it back on the shithole.

    freedom...what can be more important?

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  41. I think all malignant narc's have a disdain for love.

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  42. anon who hates mom, do you agree that you have NPD? you summarized the perfect home environment for NPD.

    it is common that npd does not want to change, does not even want to accept the diagnosis.

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  43. if anyone thinks mom/dad was the best-looking or dad/mom was the smartest of all the parents around them are very likely to be suffering from NPD. because these ideas are put into their brains when young by these NPD parents.

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  44. I don't really care. I looked up NPD and it seems i meet every trait, which is rare, i have many antisocial traits as well, i tortured animals, and i still do when i get the chance.

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    1. Leave animals alone you pathetic whackadoodle! What does it prove to hurt something that can't or won't fight back? It only proves you aren't up to the task of torturing humans because you are an impotent little bitch.

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  45. escape from freedomJanuary 18, 2011 at 8:39 AM

    it's ok. I copy from HavenNyx @7:39 below. I recommend reading Escape for Freedom.

    "When all a child knows is abuse and neglect it can be impossible to make them believe that there is a safer environment or safer options for them."

    "Fear is often stronger than hope. Not only that, but when all you know is a set of 'caregivers', it's very difficult to imagine a life without them. Despite the abuse, a child might still cling to the only home he/she knows. There's no simple solution."

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  46. Anon, enjoy prison.


    Nick Pron describes the young Paul Bernardo: "He was always happy. A young boy who smiled a lot. And he was so cute, with his dimpled good looks and sweet smile, that many of the mothers just wanted to pinch him on the cheek whenever they saw him. He was the perfect child they all wanted: polite, well mannered, doing well in school, so sweet in his Boy Scout uniform."[2]

    Following an argument between his parents when Bernardo was 16, his mother told him of his actual parentage.[3] Repulsed, he began openly to call his mother "slob" and "whore"

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  47. The Scarborough Rapist

    Bernardo committed multiple sexual assaults, escalating in viciousness, in and around Scarborough, Ontario.[6] Most of the assaults were on young women whom he had stalked after they exited buses late in the evening.

    * May 4, 1987, Bernardo committed his first rape in Scarborough against a 21-year-old woman, in front of her parents' house, after following her home. The attack lasted more than half an hour.

    * May 14, 1987, Bernardo committed his second rape. He attacked a 19-year-old woman in the back yard of her parents' house. This incident lasted over an hour.

    * July 27, 1987, Bernardo attempted his third rape. Although he beat the young woman, he abandoned the attack after she fought back.

    * December 16, 1987, Bernardo committed his third rape, against a 15-year-old girl. This rape lasted about one hour. The following day, the Toronto Police Service issued a warning to women in Scarborough travelling alone at night, especially those taking buses.

    * December 23, 1987, Bernardo committed his fourth rape. During this attack, Bernardo raped the 17-year-old with the knife he used to threaten his victims. It was at this point he began to be referred to as the 'Scarborough Rapist'.

    * April 18, 1988, Bernardo attacked a 17-year-old. The fifth assault, this one lasted 45 minutes.

    * May 25, 1988, Bernardo was nearly caught by a uniformed Metro Toronto investigator staking out a bus shelter. The investigator noticed him hiding under a tree and pursued him on foot, but Bernardo escaped.

    * May 30, 1988, Bernardo committed his sixth rape, this time in Clarkson, about 25 miles southwest of Scarborough. This attack, against an 18-year-old, lasted 30 minutes.

    * October 4, 1988, Bernardo attempted a seventh Scarborough rape. His intended victim fought him off but he inflicted two stab wounds to her thigh and buttock which required 12 stitches.

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  48. I think my ex wanted me to dress like his mom did when she was younger.
    Some weird shit goes on in his family.☺

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  49. Bernardo was born into a wealthy but dysfunctional family. His mother Marilyn had been adopted by well-to-do Toronto lawyer. His father was abusive to his wife and children. Marilyn, after having given birth to a son and a daughter, began seeing a former boyfriend. She became pregnant and gave birth to Paul Kenneth Bernardo on August 27, 1964. His father tolerated his wife's affair and is listed as the biological father on Paul's birth certificate.

    In 1975, Bernardo's father fondled a girl and was charged with child molestation; he also sexually abused his own daughter.

    Bernardo's mother became depressed over her husband's abuse, withdrew from family life and lived in the basement of their Scarborough home.

    Though the elder children felt the effects of the emotional and mental turmoil, young Paul appeared to be unscathed by it. (HOW COULD HE BE UNSCATHED?)

    Following an argument between his parents when Bernardo was 16, his mother told him of his actual parentage. Repulsed, he began openly to call his mother "slob" and "whore".

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  50. Anonymous said...

    There is something that separates a psychopath from a sociopath, if this was any other criminal he would have been caught long before, same goes for Dahmer, and all the other high profile killers, look into those vacant eyes.

    January 18, 2011 7:23 AM

    There is indeed a separation that exists between the two, but if you feel the need to go by the book then you're not encouraged to think that way.

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  51. @escape from freedom ... I added it to my book queue. Thanks!

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  52. "I admit, my parents played a huge part in me being a psychopath, they never punished me as a child, i was allowed do anything i wanted, assault after assault"

    Thats how my parents raised me. They never gave a shit what I did as long as it didn't directly impact on them. My father sometimes used to encourage me to brake the law and get into fights. "Don't take shit from anybody" is what he used to say.

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  53. i was the gifted child. never really praised at home but bragged about to anyone they knew about my parents to increase their ego. both parents with npd traits, one beauty one smarts. my gifts basically saved me from getting beat, delivering more than asked for to cover my ass. my siblings not only got beat but also hated hearing my parents go on and on about how great a kid i was in presence of others. guess how my siblings feel towards me? one is free of both parents already, so i can talk to him, but the other is stuck in a bad npd form, angry at the entire world, a loser in pretense of a celebrity

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  54. escape from freedomJanuary 18, 2011 at 10:58 AM

    HavenNYx, glad to hear that you want to read Escape from freedom. Should be required reading in high schools, if not a bit difficult to follow. Here is more:
    The Fear of Freedom, as it is known in Britain and as Escape from Freedom in North America is a book by the Frankfurt-born psychologist and social theorist Erich Fromm.

    Fromm distinguishes between 'freedom from' (negative freedom) and 'freedom to' (positive freedom). The former refers to emancipation from restrictions such as social conventions placed on individuals by other people (THINK PARENTS FOREMOST) or institutions. According to Fromm, on its own it can be a destructive force unless accompanied by a creative element. 'Freedom to' is the use of freedom to employ spontaneously the total integrated personality in creative acts. This, he argues, necessarily implies a true connectedness with others that goes beyond the superficial bonds of conventional social intercourse: "...in the spontaneous realization of the self, man unites himself anew with the world..."

    In the process of becoming emancipated from an overbearing authority/set of values, Fromm argues, we are often left with feelings of emptiness and anxiety (he likens this process to the individuation of infants in the normal course of child development) that will not abate until we use our 'freedom to' and develop some form of replacement of the old order. However, a common substitute for exercising "freedom to" or authenticity is to submit to an authoritarian system that replaces the old order with another of different external appearance but identical function for the individual: to eliminate uncertainty by prescribing what to think and how to act. He characterises this as a dialectic historical process whereby the original situation is the thesis and the emancipation from it the antithesis. The synthesis is only reached when something has replaced the original order and provided humans with a new security. Fromm does not indicate that the new system will necessarily be an improvement.

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  55. My ex had an abusive father and always talked about how mean his dad was (he used it as an excuse for his bad behavior), while at the same time wearing all of his father's 70s clothing while explaining how much of a style pimp his father was.

    "One good thing my father did was teach me how to drive. That's a powerful thing. You can kill someone by driving." He said this more than once for some reason, like learning to drive was the most important thing a father could teach his son.

    Hated his father, yet at the same time seemed to admire him. He admitted to beig a lot like him.

    Last Valentine's Day first thing he said to me was, "You're not my Valentine, my mom is!" and then two hours later requested babies.

    I asked him that night if he was a mama's boy and he said, "Yeah, but it's okay now that I'm older, right?"

    Other times he would say he had a good childhood and his parents were happy together, and he had no idea why his life got all fucked up. Then he would later say that his father was a philanderer in the early days of his marriage, or talk about his now (Syd-style)schizophrenic and drug-addicted brother was beat to shit often by his father. I bet his mother never did much of anything about these affairs or the way her husband treated his kids. My ex has a crazy sense of entitlement so I can only imagine a smothering mother. He is also a closet misogynist.

    He surrounds himself with children more than adults these days, even though he is a bachelor in his 40s. As some kind of rock 'n' roll mentor, or some kind of puerile Pied Piper. The lead guitarist in his band is a 17-year-old ex-student of his, his way of "giving back to the world," as he sees it. I am suprised that the parents of these kids allow this and aren't creeped out by him, but he is a charmer.

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  56. The trend of diagnosing children with any disorder is disturbing. All childrens brains are going to seem disordered when compared to an adult.

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  57. i agree, especially medicating children is just a horrible conspiracy between parents and pharmaceutical industry

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  58. Children shouldn't be diagnosed when they are still growing, but the normal disorder of childhood can easily become a pathological disorder of adulthood if no one is paying attention.

    Hence it is said that that many personality disorders are basically adults stuck emotionally in their pre-teen years.

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  59. It is truly powerful. It's fascinating to watch Kuklinski quietly nod at this man's points, as if to say, "Yes, I recognize myself in what you're saying; I recognize my past as well."

    I truly believe this. I don't think it's inevitable that someone who is born with the genetic predisposition towards sociopathy will necessarily become cold or completely free of conscience. But attachment must be taught, and it must be consistent over time. If someone is persuaded, time and time again, that human attachment only comes with negative consequences, especially during the early years, he or she is simply given no logical or emotional reason to bond. Throw a lot of anger into the mix, and the results can be volatile.

    It also throws a curve at those who believe that this is a static "disease" which will never be open to change, hopeless. It throws a curve at the idea of both "evil" and "good." (There is no firm dividing line between this man's "evil" and what the "good" people in his live have done to him.) It's an adaptation style. It's survival. It isn't about judgement or morality at all: it's about context.

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    1. There's another way to look at it - and research backs it up - being callous and unemotional is what allows a kid to function if he has parents with BPD, NPD or ASPD or psychopathy.

      If you have parents that won't feed you or pick you up unless you manipulate them, you get good at manipulating. And you don't take it personally.

      When you get older, if you are callous and unemotional, you're more likely to have a pretty BPD woman as a mate, because she'll really take care of your physical needs and you won't be troubled when she freaks out. If you have a kid, expect it to have a cluster B disorder - BPD, ASPD, NPD, etc. because you've got the genes and the environment require.

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    2. This is absolutely brilliant! You have just explained my girlfriends entire family tree. This backs up my theory of what you said BPD poppin out cluster B's. And her mother thought she'd attempt to "teach" my gf to blend in. lol that attempt failed. The only people she can blend with are her own family. They are all cold and self serving people who think they can pull wool over the eyes of others.

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  60. a huge part of me is stuck in pre-elementary. before 6 and before 16, where shit really gets you. busily shedding all that shit.. no intention of accepting it and living by it.

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  61. for the BPD contributors here, this is a very interesting read.
    basically - yes, you can blame your parents ;)

    for sociopaths... it's a little more complicated. mostly nature is needed to provide the genes, but they may not necessarily be expressed.
    for the record i had a very stable upbringing and knew from a young age i was different.

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  62. My schizoid tendencies are most certainly left over from how I was treated at home and at school. Perhaps I am still 12 in this way.

    My parents never noticed the egregious problems I was having, so I'm kind of stuck since there was no early intervention. No longer their responsibility, though, as I am an adult.

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  63. if you are BPD, this is a very interesting read. in conclusion, you can blame your parents.

    socios... bit more complicated. probably need the genes, but they may not necessarily be expressed.

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  64. yes, this is not about blaming them but about understanding where shit is coming from. beyond that it really is a personal choice to decide what to change what not to change.

    as the religious folks would say, i just release my parents to God. i don't worry about changing them or making them happy anymore. i have no interest in making them unhappy either, there are better places to turn my energy into. i will keep enough ties to get everything out of them that i believe is my right (as in assets) as they are ready to turn them over and put it into good use. certainly will give them a nice burial when God says it's time. too bad they were not on the path of love, or i was. i just refuse the path of hatred.

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  65. I think any psychopathic people on this forum will relate strongly to part 4, where he is talking about the relationship with his wife he says " I really loved the girl, but when I got mad I forgot all that, and wound up hurting the person I loved"

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  66. I strongly agree with Sea Witch's comment in that when a psychologist pushes their own ideologies about shoulds and shouldn't, rights and wrongs, it can really intervene with therapy

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  67. Kuklinski is a rare case, i know many men with abusive fathers and they spend their whole life trying to get their fathers love in different ways, I'm not talking about shouting, i mean the father directly striking the child, they also have a borderline personality disorder, i think Richard was the opposite, he despised his dad, the abuse fused with his psychopathic genes, and maybe even head trauma caused the beast.

    If the father is abusive in a relationship, and the mother is vulnerable, the child witnesses how to get power from an early age, look at Richard Ramirez, his father was violent towards his mother.

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  68. I don't believe in forgiveness, i can relate to the part when the psychologist tells Kuklinski he has a paranoid personality disorder. I have fantasies about killing people who fucked me over, and i hold on to grudges for life. Forgiving and forgetting is weak.

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  69. "I think any psychopathic people on this forum will relate strongly to part 4, where he is talking about the relationship with his wife he says " I really loved the girl, but when I got mad I forgot all that, and wound up hurting the person I loved"

    I can't relate to that part, i lose interest in people quickly, if i start finding my partner unattractive, they would be discarded like garbage, as soon as i dislike a person, there is no changing it, unless the bow down and lick my boot.

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  70. My opinion of people can radically change in very short spaces of time. When I first meet someone, I always have a very low opinion of them even if I don't know a thing about them. If they start doing favours for me, I start to like them just that little bit more. If they stop helping me out with things and doing what I tell them to do, if they rebel against me, they go back to being the scum of the earth in my mind. What I love is when people willingly do things for me, without having to be forced or manipulated. I love it when people aren't just obstacles that I have to move and buttons that I have to push. weak and submissive people are the best kind.

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  71. when i first meet them i am excited about the people. then i start seeing the weaknesses and discard them, some with heavy disgust. i should keep them on a long leash for potential use in the future as opposed to complete discard. it just feels they keep coming so no patience for managing crowds. but this would change in time, they won't flock as much as i get older. good idea not to burn bridges completely.

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  72. Being submissive around me is a bad thing to do, i enjoy physically abusing people it makes me powerful and at the same time you are shattering whatever self esteem your target has, my favorite is to choke someone. Of course I'm strictly talking about women, hm, i might be a sexual sadist :P

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  73. choking seem to increase sexual arousal for both... just don't let the eyes pop out all the way.

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  74. Trust me, with the hold i get, there is only one person enjoying it, and that's me.

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  75. i once locked my legs too much and almost choked the guy to death

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  76. Are you anyway sadistic Misanthrope?

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  77. I enjoy leaving marks, black eyes and bruises, it's a reminder of my possession a signifier of dominance.

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  78. @ 2:45 I don't think you've put much thought into this, forgiveness allows you to let go of negative emotions and become less burdened by impulses to find retribution. Forgiveness does not stop you from doing anything, if seeking revenge on an enemy is worth it, you would want to do it even after forgiving

    @ 2:48 Sure but I think any psychopath can relate to the idea of losing focus on the bigger picture, which is what Richard Kulinski seems to mean when he says "but when I got mad I forgot all that"

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  79. Sadistic personality disorder is:

    A) A pervasive pattern of cruel, demeaning, and aggressive behavior, beginning by early adulthood, as indicated by the repeated occurrence of at least four of the following:

    1. has used physical cruelty or violence for the purpose of establishing dominance in a relationship (not merely to achieve some noninterpersonal goal, such as striking someone in order to rob him/her).
    2. Humiliates or demeans people in the presence of others.
    3. has treated or disciplined someone under his/her control unusually harshly.
    4. is amused by, or takes pleasure in, the psychological or physical suffering of others (including animals).
    5. has lied for the purpose of harming or inflicting pain on others (not merely to achieve some other goal).
    6. gets other people to do what he/she wants by frightening them (through intimidation or even terror).
    7. restricts the autonomy of people with whom he or she has a close relationship, e.g., will not let spouse leave the house unaccompanied or permit teenage daughter to attend social functions.
    8. is fascinated by violence, weapons, injury, or torture.

    B) The behavior in A has not been directed toward only one person (e.g., spouse, one child) and has not been solely for the purpose of sexual arousal (as in sexual sadism).

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  80. Check check check check check check check check check check check

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  81. In the interview, the psychologist asks Richard, how he feels when he chopped up the bodies, he then said that empathic people feel uneasy when they see a person cut open, is that true? I always had the mentality of "It's just like gutting an animal"

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  82. Sometimes I reasonlessly abuse people and get a kick out of it. I enjoy hurting people who I irritate and provoke me the most. Most of the time I don't take pleasure in other people's suffering, I just don't care about it.

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  83. I don't get anything out of abusing men.

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  84. i'd get a lot out of abusing men, i just stop myself. i do enjoy watching them salivate though when i am not even doing anything to provoke that. curves, nothing else needed for the beasts

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  85. SPD anon(and all the other anons who post text book definitions of various PD's)

    If we want to read this shit we'll look it up anywhere else. Stop waisting space.

    It's easy enough to beat and choke women. If that's what you enjoy, I say go for it. I've experimented with rough sex before, and I didn't enjoy it anymore than normal sex. It's impossible for me to get a rush out of anything so simple and risk free.

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  86. Don't get me wrong, i constantly mock other men, i have no compassion for the common man.

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  87. how about female soldiers abusing war prisoners? that sounded like a fair game to me, does that suggest i'm sadistic?

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  88. Ha, i like you, most people go on the defensive when those sorts of things are discussed, maybe we can work together, the second coming of the hillside stranglers? :)

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  89. I'd have to kill you in the end though, fuck that! I can't share the limelight.

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  90. In one interview, Kuklinski confessed that he only regretted one murder, which he deemed particularly cruel. As he was about to kill a man, the man began praying to God for his life. Kuklinski told him that he would give God 30 minutes to save him, but once the time was up, he would be killed. Forcing the man to wait 30 minutes for his demise struck Kuklinski as his most sadistic murder.


    So psychopaths do have the ability to feel remorse? perhaps its not as black/white as i thought.

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  91. When people are put into positions of power, it can corrupt them, even something as little as a military uniform can give people a sense of entitlement, i guarantee you though, when they take that uniform off, they remember who they hurt, they feel naked.

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  92. Yes, i can feel certain amounts of remorse, Ive never felt sorry, or an overwhelming emotion, i see myself as distracted though, I'm completely self consumed, i can't say the same for guilt, i just don't feel it! Instead i get some shame that passes quite quickly.

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  93. twice i made very high power guys cry, by simply taking away the thought they were the greatest with some stupid yet concrete example from their own life.

    shoulders shaking, tears pouring. i was shocked to see their reaction, certainly was not intentional on my part. never felt sorry for this, thought it was their own doing, i was only pointing out some of their truth, maybe when they least expected

    did you know freud fainted once because he was praised. what a narcissistic ass.

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  94. Psychopaths have an amazing ability to penetrate peoples minds, the difficulty for me is understanding "why?" people do certain things.

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  95. I'm always convinced that I'm going to win, or come out on top in every new situation that I encounter. The thought of losing never even crosses my mind, and I'm always shocked when I do lose. When I look back in retrospect, I can spot the faults in the way I approach certain situations, but it still never stops me from thinking that I'm going to win whatever situation that I'm presented with. Last year I got into an argument with these two massive polish builders. I started beating one of them around the head with the coke bottle that I was holding,. They ended up beating me down, fracturing my skull, and breaking a few of my ribs. I had to spend time in the hospital and everything. My point being that It's not so much a low fear response in me, as it is just never considering the fact that I could lose. My fearlesness, comes from a feeling of invulnerability. This is random but I don't give a shit.

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  96. i would suggest that your motivating trigger is so important to you that you just go for the attack. meaning whatever that guy did to deserve getting hit on the head was a powerful reason for you to do the right thing as you define. accordingly, there really is nothing to regret looking back. i doubt that you'd be that direct next time though, you'd find him alone first.

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  97. You should take up MMA, if your like me you'll get distracted and quit within two weeks though ha. I was going to get serious with MMA, i knew I could be a champion, I was going to take steroids, bit I realised how impulsive I was being with the whole thing, I can't imagine me being on steroids I'm a hot headed prick as it is lol

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  98. I get out of the worst situations, I've gotten more than one beat down in the past but nothing serious considering how much I talk shit about other people.

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  99. I think a lot of people don't understand the game. My fiance holds me to something I was accused of, dealing with a good friend of mine which I am now found innocent of. She found out. She doesn't want to hear about innocence because she feels I am lying. She thinks I am unsafe around her sometimes because she thinks I was guilty, and that I beat the system. She thinks that if I did that to a friend, that I could do it to her.
    How this man talked about his family I can relate on. My fiance and our dream of family is my only grasp on humanity. I am very protective of my family. She can't understand that, as a lot of people on this forum. I say many times to her that what she sees me do is not who I am. Who I am is the person I am at home. What I do for work is seperate.

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  100. I say many times to her that what she sees me do is not who I am.

    I've got to say, that sounds like some bullshit to me.

    You are all of it at all time.

    Compartmentalizing only works for so long... as we have seen with Kuklinski and with you 'accidentally' banging your girlfriend's head against a wall.

    It's clear that she doesn't trust you; how long can a marriage last without trust?

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  101. well, UKan, that sort of second personality creation is a way to feel a bit better about yourself. mary belle did that after her prison years, created this evil twin in her mind. but i guess, you gotta do what you gotta do. i sure would not be willing to take your word on this separation of personalities. you never know, it may be dark and someone may turn some loud music on and you may think you are in your club, man.

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  102. anyone wants to watch an asian guy bitch about female pubic hair left on the soap? hilarious accent. i don't know how to link, so
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgnnkBcQYQ0&feature=related

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  103. What the fuck are you linking me to?

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  104. Medusa is turning into a female UKan, i see the transformation with my own eyes, the influence abusers can have is amazing.

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  105. I think Medusa is a warm hearted person who tries to create an image on here, leave her alone, her ex fucked her up so let her live.

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  106. how long can a marriage last without trust?

    Many have lasted a lifetime.

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  107. trust two part: competence (money) and goodwill (heart). at least one of these may carry the day, none of these and time to divorce.

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  108. Dunno, but I can say that who left, deserved to go under the outline they agreed to. If I was a soldier with the same committent then you would not question me, medusa. That incidendent that I used violence against her, I just felt at the time that she was trying to take away mine, so I took power unto my own. I was not in control.

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  109. Why would I find him alone when I feel invincible? If I came across either of those guys again, I'd do exactly the same thing without hesitation. I do that sort of thing all the time. What they said was unimportant. It wasn't about who was right and who was wrong, It was the fact that they argued with me at all that pissed me off.

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  110. pk, fine, don't get mad at me, do what you gotta do man. i don't see any difference between your attitude and the guys who cut themselves. what's wrong with you people? hate your body? maybe you actually like the attention you get in the hospital, i mean something, right?

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  111. It's an adventure isn't it?

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  112. yes, i do things that risk my life, like rafting in really dangerous spots, diving around the sharks. he must have good pain tolerance, if i had that probably i'd really enjoy getting in fights too. so, misanthrope, do you have very high pain tolerance? if so, how did you get there? always like that or a lot of early childhood beating?

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  113. You just take it. Most people think that they're made of glass, but once you've been punched a few times, you get used to it.

    So my advice to you:

    Go out and get beaten to a bloody pulp.

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  114. mis, your advice is to guys only, right? just making sure.

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  115. i've been married twice, Medusa. I left both of them. Nice men bad husbands.

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  116. Psychopaths think of lots of things at once, that's why haven self injures, people like that dwell on a single thought until it brings them pain.

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  117. is there anyone here who thinks kuklinski had an alright life? anyone who envies kuklinski's life?

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  118. Being a hitman may sound fun/romantic, but it's not something I would seriously consider. The price you pay for failure is death. Death behind bars, or death outside the bars. Everyone, including this guy, eventually screws up.

    And what Misanthrope said is pretty much on the level. You don't think about the consequences if it's on the fly, only if you are expecting/planning for it do I ever think about the outcome.

    Underestimating people is something I did all the time when I was younger. It didn't matter if I was logically outmatched in most cases, I knew I was better until proven otherwise.

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  119. Anyone know why Psychforums has completely shutdown?

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  120. I was wondering why it felt like psychforums over here the past couple of days.

    Bah.

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  121. this is complete proof that you should not put your hands on your children.
    he wasnt born this way.
    he was beaten this way.

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  122. Dr. Deitz displays the typical personality trait of an "expert."
    He sees his own thesis comfirmed in the subject he is studying,
    and doesn't even allow the man to get in a word in edgewise, to
    explain his actual motives for his crimes.
    Does this cut throught need Deitz to tell him WHY he killed? Or,
    is he capable himself?
    Does the POS in Oklahoma who kiddnapped the 10-year-old girl
    in broad daylight, the otherday and dragged her to his liar, need
    Dietz to explain His motivations? He came from a "good" family,
    and has a million dollar trust fund, and STILL wants the state to
    pay for his defense.
    When are these highly educated "experts" going to understand,
    that the answer is not complicated? The reason for the things
    they do spelled, F-U-N!

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  123. Not sure I saw "anxiety and contained anger". I saw resignation, emptiness. Kuklinski is an individual who just seems checked out more than anything else.

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  124. Most people see what they want to see because of belief, not observation.

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    1. Does sociopathy exist in animals?

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    2. Certain species of ape are known to kill their own kind.

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    3. I didnt mean a whole species, I meant some animals, who are different from their species, for mutation or upbringing reasons.

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  125. Cats resemble psychopaths more than any other pet..but do they kill for fun and terrorize others for no apparent reason? Nope. But surely the great White is a psycho, they look like cruel demons from the deep? They only eat dinner, no "fun & games" involved. Maybe monkeys. maybe?

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    Replies
    1. I beg to differ. My cats terrorize the occasional doormouse that sneaks inside during cold weather. They are well fed and ignore the fact they can eat the mouse after they've collectively tortured it for hours.

      I've joked more than once that they are sociopaths with fur. They are ornery and will seek revenge against those who mistreat them (or even laugh openly at them). So why do I adore them? Because if a cat chooses you as a place to sit it is a compliment. They like you (or at least they like your warmth and they don't hate you). But more than that they have their own lives. A dog will jump up and down frantically once you come home as if to say "Oh my God! Entertain me oh wondrous one!" Cats coolly greet you on their timetable and in the least needy fashion possible (unless you forget to feed them..) They are clean, independent, self sufficient and entertaining if you can get over their lack of slavish devotion.

      So why love an animal like this? Well, at the risk of sounding patronizing it is far safer to enjoy a sociopath that you have domesticated as your own personal house pet. There is undoubtedly a shocking amount of pathology in the psychology behind that statement- but it seems to be a mutually agreeable relationship given that my cats do not pee on my things. So who's to judge?

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    2. You're going senile.

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    3. maybe... but more likely it was simply a failed attempt to be funny.
      bottom line... cats are sociopathic. They love without sentiment. Deal with it...or don't have a cat.

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  126. I saw this interview when it originally aired. I think the psychiatrist did a good job of explaining things, especially the paranoid personality type. Many people think it means people who wear tinfoil hats and such, but that's not really all it encompasses. I also like how he explained that Kukinski is a rare individual with his combination of personality traits.

    MelissaR

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  127. M.E. - I'm curious, how angry and powerless did you feel when you were identified? Were you furious?

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  128. escape from freedomJanuary 18, 2011 at 10:58 AM

    trueSight:
    This is how Germany became entranced with Hitler I think. Some people counter act towards what frustrate them, they dont act toward what gratify them. We are free to do whatever we want but for some reason what others think of it matters. But what it has to do with sociopath? It's the same phenomenon at smaller scale, everyday, everywhere.

    example: I make 30000 dollars a year and have plenty for myself, but somehow will end up hating my neighbor for having twice as much even if I have enough.

    Psychos just does this at a whim for no apparent reasons. U think ur better than me? Well guess again now ur head is a mess against the wall. It's inferiority complex and it's so weak. I don't believe in good, there is no scientific basis of that, we all just find or adapt to the group that fits our violent needs and tastes. The worst closet socios are the good thinkers that somehow always end up justifying a large scale conflict because it would ''help'' the people that are suffering ''there''. WTF is up with those guys... they are even more fucked in the head than us... they are the aberrations. And what about the family of victims that end up in raging bloodlust demanding retaliation in the most gruesome manners. Labelling people as sociopath is useful to society, but meaningless to an individual. Isn't society filled with uncaring liars that provide senseless petting to each others?

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  129. More people need to be on http://sociopath-community.com/

    !!! it used to be connected to this blog but was disconnected over a year ago. We need fresh blood and lots of interesting things have happened recently (relates to kiwifar.ms drama: https://archive.is/M2tXa) that will go down in the forum's history! Be sure to check out http://www.psychforums.com/antisocial-personality/ too, as some of its regulars are regulars on SC too!

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