Monday, August 15, 2016

Bonding over bullying

I've been meaning to post about this Invisibilia episode for ages, and also saw this comment from a somewhat recent post that made me want to post it again, and finally have gotten around to it.

So the Invisibilia episode is worth listening to fully, at least the first half of it. It talks about a woman who has always been treated badly, bullied, and even villified, and she had no idea why. She's high functioning -- a doctor -- but she found social interactions to be very difficult. She describes the worst of many similar episodes of bullying:

The worst thing that ever happened was, I was at summer camp, and I don't know what I did. I have no idea. But they actually bound and gagged me and took me out of the cabin at night in the rain and put me outside, and it was just awful.

Here's why: "Kim's brain is not great at seeing emotion. When she looks out at the world, she physically sees all the things that most people see. It's just that much of the emotion is subtracted. Though for most of her life, she didn't realize that, and so her interactions with other kids could be difficult."

She undergoes TMS, transcranial magnetic stimulation, which some of you may remember from Wisdom of Psychopaths: "Basically in TMS you take this very fancy magnet, hold it to the scalp and send pulses through the skull to get brain cells to activate in a different way. They typically change for a very short period of time - between 15 and 40 minutes."

During TMS, she experiences for the first time an awareness of the emotional world, and realizes that this whole time she has been missing out on millions of emotional cues from the people around her. She says that she would have otherwise had no idea that such a world existed before, because she had always just believed that the way she saw the world was the way the world actually was (sound familiar to all of you out there?).

I thought the hosts had an interesting reaction to her realization that the world was different than she thought it was -- as if maybe she would have been better off not knowing. But she doesn't see it that way at all:

But even though TMS has not changed Kim's ability to see long-term, she says she's still happy she got it. She says she thinks a lot about one of the videos she was shown. In it, two employees were saying mean things to a fellow employee named Frank. And Kim says the first time she watched it before the TMS, she couldn't answer any of the questions the researchers were asking about it. But afterwards, she understood not only the video but also one of the big mysteries that had dominated much of her life.

KIM: It never made any sense to me as to why people would be mean to somebody else. Why would you be mean to somebody? And what I saw is that when the two employees were there and were talking together and then were giving Frank a hard time, the primary thing was not that they were trying to be mean to Frank.

The primary thing is that they were bonding, building a bond between the two of them. And it was simply the means to do it was to be nasty to Frank. And then I was like, oh, maybe that's what these kids were doing when they were bullying me.

SPIEGEL: It's much easier to live in a world which makes sense, where people are mean not just for fun but because they, like everyone else, want to belong and feel safe. Now that's the world that Kim lives in. 

This same phenomenon of bonding over bullying was referenced in the comment I mentioned above:

But I also made the experience, that the team spirit in a group is rising if there is a common "enemy/victim". Well it's at the victims expense but for the rest of the group and their friendships it is something positive... Anyway, I don't know if this phenomenon is also visible in a group consisting of various sociopaths.

The point of the podcast was that everyone has blindspots -- everyone has a certain viewpoint that by its very nature is limited. As much as Kim was blind to emotions and sociopaths are blind to morality, empaths are also blind to the random things they get up to -- like bonding over bullying. The key is to have just a little bit of intellectual humility to admit the possibility that the way you see the world may not be 100% accurate. 

45 comments:

  1. Replies
    1. I was watching the movie "In Good Company", the other day.:)

      There are a lot of little things, that I like about that movie, including all of the actors. I especially like Topher Grace's character.:) I've seen that movie several times, and always listen to the music in movies, as well as during the credits.:) I was previously unfamiliar with this band/song, and it had never caught my attention before, until the other day...

      Song of the Day:

      Iron & Wine

      TheTrapezeSwinger

      I've been listening to it, over and over again...

      ~Vegas

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  2. First! BOOM!!! Too fucking easy.
    2-0

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  3. Replies
    1. Swop-

      Nice try.:)

      ~Vegas

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    2. There's no one else I'd rather lose to...

      Hey Vegas ;)

      Delete
    3. *****BLUSHING*****

      I like the "Hey Vegas ;)"

      The count is 1-1.:)

      ~Vegas

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  4. Pool Party List: Vegas, Superchick, Puppy Basket, Damaged, Old and Wise and her depressed socio friend, and the dashingly hairy Mr. Hyde.

    I must admit I'm started to fantasize y'all decked out in sleekly snug swimsuits, lounging by the poolside. Vegas' bathing suit is purple with white trim and she's wearing a big floppy hat.

    I hope M.E. is preparing _her_ nice and naughty list, checking it twice.


    Mr. Hyde

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    1. Demi look alike ....purple with trim and nice sun hat. Very hot lady Vegas ;) Mmm....

      Vegas my SO says I look like me. Lol.
      But I've been told I look in-between a Selina Gomez and a Catherine Zeta Jones. Not as young as Selina but not as old as Catherine. I do have very dark eyes. So makeup always looks on the exotic side. Even with a little. My husbands loves my eyes he says. He has intense blue eyes. I take care of my skin. I'm a sunscreen freak and I infrared my skin diligently. I like to think I'm aging gracefully. ;) me hopes.

      Delete
    2. Hey Superchick,

      What does infrared do for your skin?

      Just curious. Never heard of this treatment before.

      Mr. Hyde

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    3. It penetrates deep into these dermis of the skin. It helps with collegen production. My pores are tight and skin is youthfully aging. Infrared red light helps with a multitude of elements. I have a five head lamp and also a infrared sauna that I like to sweat in and fuck in , haha. But yoga also helps the body age gracefully at its finest. Women who do it in their sixties , seventies, eighties I find hot because it's taking care of the body as a whole is attractive. ;) I do that three times weekly. I'm 38 years old.

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    4. Size means nothing to me. Just gracefully being .....is sexy as hell. :D

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    5. Mr. Hyde-

      "the dashingly hairy Mr. Hyde"

      I liked that.:)

      Per your recommendation, I watched "Psychopath Night".:)

      Mr. Hyde-Your "fantasy", is very detailed.:) I'm honored you saw me in a purple bathing suit with white trim.:) I'm sure you know that purple is the color of royalty, and white-purity.:)

      How did you know, that I have "big floppy hats"???

      ~Vegas

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    6. Superchick-

      I don't know if I look like Demi or not-that's just what my husband said.:)

      "Very hot lady Vegas ;)"

      *****BLUSHING*****

      I think you are the one, that sounds like a VERY HOT LADY!!! Selena Gomez and Catherine Zeta-Jones are WAY HOT!!!

      Are you a model??? You sound like you could be.:)

      ~Vegas

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    7. Superchick-

      P.S.-YOU LUCKY DUCK!!! You have a sauna???

      ~Vegas

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    8. Superchick,

      Way cool info regarding infrared. Thanks. I think there may be places around here that offer that and would like to check it out. I love saunas, too.

      I am sure you are aging magnificently. Yoga is fantastic, works in inner as well as outer self to a remarkable degree.

      Vegas, For some reason while reading your posts, I can't picture you without a floppy hat and dressed in purple. ;)

      Glad you got a kick from watching Psychopath Night.

      Mr. Hyde

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    9. Vegas no model ..definitely just me ;)

      Mr. Hyde and Vegas you can buy the sauna kits infrared and build them. You'll enjoy the detox of it, the heat is very comforting. Good feels. :)

      Delete
    10. I want swop around as well. For the pool party. Wanna see scars. Wanna see aging bodies. 38 is not quite aging yet, but a Canadian 'farmer girl' who knows about rejuvenating the skin with infrared, that I wanna see... and hug.

      Vegas? A song on the theme please?

      Delete
    11. Bonding over bullying.

      I have been aware of this since I was 14. Practised it for a year and hated myself for it.

      But also.. isn't it a high to bully the bullies? That was my drive 29 years ago. It might become my drive again. My sociofriend is being bullied. I feel bullied as well.

      From what I have read, on this site, in books, and what my sociofriend is emanating, sociopaths absolutely HATE bullies. And so do super empaths.

      Is that another example of how opposites attract?

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    12. Mr Hyde.
      Are you Faust?

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    13. O&W, hah! Faust is here, with me. ;)

      You were right about not getting back my poetry book. ;(

      Mr. Hyde

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    14. O&W, "From what I have read, on this site, in books, and what my sociofriend is emanating, sociopaths absolutely HATE bullies. And so do super empaths."

      "Is that another example of how opposites attract?"

      Maybe. Or maybe it's where the two meet, share common ground.

      Mr. Hyde

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    15. Old & Wise, bring all the bodies to the swimming party. Come as you are. Your original skin is yours and is beautiful. Being body positive is my aim.

      My. Hyde my husband would bully the bullies. Put them in their place. I do too in away. Lol. Specially if it's hurting the person profoundly and they're being arrogant.

      I do believe we mirror each other (the empath trait individual and the sociopath trait individual ) have far more common qualities. We attract likeables ...I'm learning this. My whole time I thought I attracted my opposite. But I have some repression in me on my part the common qualities of him. And him visa versa are repressed.

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    16. Superchick,"Specially if it's hurting the person profoundly and they're being arrogant." Grr! A sure fire trigger for me also.

      "But I have some repression in me on my part the common qualities of him. And him visa versa are repressed."

      This profoundly resonates. I know that I repressed my anger/ability to assert myself without guilt for far too long in certain circumstances. And I know exactly where that anger and guilt come from: I left my mom alone when she needed me, had threatened suicide, and ten minutes later she shot herself in the head. After that, I endlessly berated myself for my selfishness. To leave or say no to someone in pain felt equal to threatening their life. Rather than cleanly face my internal conflicts and seek balance, I repressed my selfish side to my own detriment, and no doubt to the detriment of others, who often would have been better off had I not been so compliant. It was always about nurturing others first, and of course, that breeds resentment and all kinds of self-sabotage, etc.

      Thanks for expressing something that I've felt for a very long time. Your insights are powerful.

      "Your original skin is yours."

      Well put!

      Mr. Hyde

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    17. Mr. Hyde your an amazing- caring man. An amazing listener and I am so sorry for the loss of your mother. If I was in front of you I'd give you a big hug. My condolences. Suicide is hard. She was suffering. You could have not stopped it. Don't live out those scenarios in your head. She left a legacy in you. She is a legacy and always will be no matter the route of death. My grandfather chose to leave this world as well. They had enough of the suffering inside that out-measured the pain to last longer than it should have. It went on for far too long. They needed rest. They needed a transition. Suicide is a very grey to me. It's not wrong nor right I believe. I need to validate their own reality of what they were both living. RIP to both.

      Mr. Hyde you take good out of that. What would they want from both of us? For people to openly talk about pain, to seek help, to love and encourage. The legacy stops with us k. Suicide is NOT in our cards. They would want the world to know that options should be readily available to people who suffer like they did. I truly believe my grandfather would not want me to succumb to suicide but to seek available options he didn't himself have or was just too afraid to seek help. The stigma stops with our generation. Hugs. X

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    18. We're going to finish the race with bumps and triumphs, take the torch from here on out ;)
      Keep shining forward Mr. Hyde.

      Look up Teal Swan in you tube (kinda shes my girl crush ;) I joke with the hubs.

      Her insight is remarkable. I've listened to her critics but I'm the most neutral person there is. She's amazing. She has a sex appeal. You'll know what I mean once you listen to her. But it's because of her past. There's speculation if it's all true or not. My conclusion, it doesn't matter - she's absolutely wonderful and a breath of fresh air to listen too. I want to go to one of her workshops in Toronto so bad this September.

      Some things might seem out there .....but a lot of stuff will resonate inside with you. Take what you need .... Leave the rest. Have an open mind. It's critical. Most people will criticize people who have deep insight. Ignore it. I love her stuff anyway. She does have real haters who have diagnosed her. Lol.

      Not sure if she's an empath or not but somethings in her that I see familiarity in me and other girls I come across.

      Rare fuckeen beautiful gem she is. Inside and out. It ozes. Have I mention my girl crush ;)

      Kidding. Well maybe.

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    19. Superchick, Your big hugs are greatly appreciated, as is everything you say. You're right about our loved ones exiting because they were stuck in suffering and needed rest. Hillman said that suicide was a desire for hasty transformation.

      One of the last things my mom said to me was, 'I just want the suffering to stop." And, "Don't worry. Have a good time. Your dad is waiting to drive you to Lorraine's house."

      She just wanted the pain to stop, which is perfectly reasonable. I don't believe the act itself is either right or wrong; I do think it nearly always has devastating rippling effects and leaves quite a bit of garbage behind for others to clean. Still, I have nothing but sympathy for anyone who wants release from pain, no matter how they chose to do accomplish that.

      I began to piece together my deeper feelings about my role in my mother's death in my 30s.

      Imagine my shock when I received this written horoscope reading: "The subjective image of your mother portrayed in your birth horoscope is a poignant one. There is much of the mythic or archetypal Suffering Woman contained in this image, and probably your mother experienced many difficult circumstances in her life -- either in her childhood or in her marriage, or through illness . . . or through the necessity of sacrificing her most cherished desires in order to look after others. Although your mother may have made sacrifices willingly because of her love and need of her family, nevertheless you have within you considerable guilt about her unhappiness, and deep unconscious conviction that you are in some way responsible for redeeming her sacrifices through your own self-sacrifice." "Perhaps you need to be stronger in affirming your right to be selfish."

      Children of suicidal parents must do what they can to forge ahead and not back. I like that you think we can carry the shining torch to the ends of our desire and hopefully beyond.

      Thank you for your kind support. And don't worry: I'm too stubbornly attached to life to exit anytime soon.

      Mr. Hyde

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    20. That horoscope reading is so bang on. Comforting and very fitting. :)Going in for a night shift.. good rest to you Mr. Hyde.

      Delete
  5. Interesting article. Am i being arrogant to say empaths have a more difficult time admitting that they don't see the world 100% accurately?

    -Fellow Sociopath

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  6. I would venture to say most people find it difficult.

    Mr. Hyde

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    1. But i do think, once the sociopath is self aware, that they can easily accept that they are ignorant of nerotypicals and the emotional state of the world.

      -Fellow Sociopath

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    2. True. But, since logic also dictates that highly emotional beings are blinded by their feelings, it's possible that socios are likewise narrowly focused by their hyper-rationality, thus are blinded to certain other aspects of reality.

      Seems to me neither end of the spectrum is ideal because each is unable to grasp the whole of humanity. Then again, Jesus and Buddha, the best examples I can think of as 'higher sentient beings,' also struggled to see and grasp the totality of the entire spectrum. Buddha, for example, was so threatened by feminine beauty that he would not allow women to form a nunnery in his community for twenty years or so. Sad but true. From woman's perspective Jesus was the more enlightened of the two . . . but even he struggled with cutting the 'evil ones' a break. Hence his pledge to return bearing a sword.

      Anyway, I think accepting the entire spectrum of humanity is still in great work in progress, one that will take who knows how long to take. Presuming we don't off ourselves first. Hopefully, we'll find a middle way before mother nature steps in.

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    3. Forgot to sign @ 11:33 AM

      Mr. Hyde

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  7. I was told countless times that I shouldn't be so closed minded to people who "care" differently. Yet they never bothered to explain what they meant. What they said didn't match what they did. They told me they cared the way I as a non socio cared for them. It seems they just wanted me to accept treatment that didn't match up with their words.

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    Replies
    1. It's tough for empaths to understand, the same way it's tough for us to understand empath feelings.

      However, i can confirm that we often DO care, perhaps more so than an empath has the capacity to care. However, we don't pick up on or default to the neurotypical methods of showing our love. This can cause us to seem like a "villain". So no - you shouldn't necessarily accept lesser treatment, but be open to communicating with the sociopath and you'll have the best relationship you could imagine, it just takes a little mutual understanding.

      -Fellow Sociopath

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  8. Vegas,

    I have been reading your posts. Is this what you have with your "hubs"?

    https://youtu.be/1JOHde-0G_g

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  9. What's it like being a modern day nazi super villain?

    ReplyDelete
  10. Nazi children

    Algorithms

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  11. I just read the whole post. It's a good read M.E.

    Always was fascinated by reading about TMS. Heard it also cures debilitating depression in folks who undergo the procedure.,

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  12. M.E.-

    As I was telling Mr. Hyde-I watched "Psychopath Night".:)

    I wanted to tell you, you looked HOT, in your swimsuit!!!

    I was impressed with your dive, freestyle form, and flip turn!!!

    I loved your dolphin floatie-the ice sculpture at my wedding, was 2 dolphins.:) You have a diving board, too-YOU LUCKY DUCK!!! I love those, too.:)

    YOU HAVE THE PERFECT POOL!!! If I had a pool, it would be that shape-PERFECT FOR LAP SWIMMING!!! So often, the shape of backyard pools isn't conducive to lap swimming, but yours is.:)

    You have a "big floppy hat", too.:)

    I also noticed, that when you were sitting in your chair for the interview, that your feet didn't touch the floor-that happens to me a lot, too.:)

    ~Vegas

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