Thursday, August 26, 2010

Sam Vaknin (part 2)

I asked Sam Vaknin about self-aware narcissism. He corrected me that he has never been diagnosed a psychopath, that he scored a 13 on the PCL-R when he would need an 18 to be diagnosed a psychopath in Europe and a 30 in the U.S.

He linked me to the following about self-aware narcissism, in which he makes some very interesting points about the difference between "changing" and "healing" that I think apply equally well to sociopaths:
Narcissism defines the narcissist's waking moments and his nocturnal dreams. It is all-pervasive. Everything the narcissist does is motivated by it. Everything he avoids is its result. Every utterance, decision, his very body language - are all manifestations of narcissism. It is rather like being abducted by an alien and ruthlessly indoctrinated ever since. The alien is the narcissist's False Self - a defense mechanism constructed in order to shield his True Self from hurt and inevitable abandonment.

Cognitive understanding of the disorder does not constitute a transforming INSIGHT. In other words, it has no emotional correlate. The narcissist does not INTERNALIZE what he understands and learns about his disorder. This new gained knowledge does not become a motivating part of the narcissist. It remains an inert and indifferent piece of knowledge, with minor influence on the narcissist's psyche.

Sometimes, when the narcissist first learns about the Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD), he really believes he could change (usually, following a period of violent rejection of the "charges" against him). He fervently wants to. This is especially true when his whole world is in shambles. Time in prison, a divorce, a bankruptcy, a death of a major source of narcissistic supply - are all transforming life crises. The narcissist admits to a problem only when abandoned, destitute, and devastated. He feels that he doesn't want any more of this. He wants to change. And there often are signs that he IS changing. And then it fades. He reverts to old form. The "progress" he had made evaporates virtually overnight. Many narcissists report the same process of progression followed by recidivist remission and many therapists refuse to treat narcissists because of the Sisyphean frustration involved.

I never said that narcissists cannot CHANGE - only that they cannot HEAL. There is a huge difference between behavior modification and a permanent alteration of the psychodynamic landscape. Narcissistic behavior CAN be modified using a cocktail of talk therapy, conditioning, and medication. I have yet to encounter a healed narcissist.

The emphasis in therapy is thus more on accommodating the needs of those nearest and dearest to the narcissist - spouse, children, colleagues, friends - than on "treating" the narcissist. If the narcissist's abrasiveness, rage, mood swings, reckless and impulsive behaviors are modified - those around him benefit most. This, as far as I am concerned, is a form of social engineering.

28 comments:

  1. Vaknin is such a character, isn’t he? I watched I, Psychopath a little while ago with interest and amusement. And if all involved in the film were truthful, and even Hare himself weighed in and gave his stamp of approval on the film’s treatment of this subject, then Vaknin is lying about not being an officially diagnosed psychopath, Hare style.

    I also found Vaknin’s comments about the difference between changing and “healing” informative. I suspected a while ago that this is what folks mean when they say those who have little to no conscience “lack insight”. No emotional resonance=no insight as far as the high priests of psychiatry are concerned.

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  2. Vaknin needs a new god damn web designer.

    Other than that, a mildly interesting individual. Some entertaining ideas on the narcissist mind. I particularly enjoyed this little self-revealing gem.

    "If asked to relate directly to his emotions, the narcissist intellectualizes, rationalizes, speaks about himself in the third person and in a detached 'scientific' tone or composes a narrative with a fictitious character in it, suspiciously autobiographical. Narcissists like to refer to themselves in mechanical terms, as efficient automata or machines."

    Oh, Sam.

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  3. he mentioned treatment,i wonder what meds he uses??anyone got any ideas.........

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  4. Wow..creepy guy. Treatment? I don't think so. I didn't look at the whole video though because I got bored. I guess he's more interesting to the sociopath folks. He's ugly too. Not that it matters..lol

    Grace

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  5. I have an idea, Anon 2:21. Learn to write properly.

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  6. Post,

    Your website has a cool style to it. Did you design it yourself? If so you should send Sam a memo offereing your services. For real.

    Grace

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  7. Didn't design it myself, no. I started it a few weeks ago and I just used a template. Haven't gotten into the guts, yet. That said, I do freelance in that field, so I suppose I could drop him a line. :D

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  8. On another note, I appreciate the subtle ego stroking. Flattery will get you everywhere, my dear.

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  9. I'm glad you liked it:) But really it's cool. Good luck with it.

    Grace

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  10. hey POSTMODERN this is anon 2.21
    FUCK YOU ASSHOLE!!! hope my writing is ok for you this time.

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  11. That was spectacular. For your benefit, Anon 2:21, no. Your writing is not okay for me this time.

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  12. My.

    Vaknin isn't interesting. He's another pretty little snowflake.

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  13. "Lovefraudists and the like tend to use sociopathy as a shield to protect themselves from responsibility, especially applying it retroactively to mean exes/evil bosses/that guy on the bus that glared at them for no apparent reason."

    Absolutlely love, sorry wrong word!; charmed, oops, no interested by your use of the word "responsibility", it brought me to tears. May we now have your rendition of the use of respect and entitlement please cunt? ;-)

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  14. I don't know that I understand. Are you insulting me, attempting to bait me, or complimenting my superior viewpoint?

    A more correct understanding of the use of commas would make your prose much more coherent.

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  15. Why the profanity Anon? The more out of control you are, and you are with that c word, the more you prove their point here. Your point and question will get lost and the only thing that will stand out is your anger and that's what they will focus on. Not your attempt to make a point and get a response.

    Sorry to intrude on your comment I guess I just hate that c word. Carry on.

    Grace

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  16. Grace, you are the cutest.

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  17. The problem with postmodern is that he/she thinks that they are superior in their views and has no problem being a smart arse to prove it and if that means insulting people for whatever reason then its ok ,well your WRONG.Learn to keep your mouth shut postmodern and you wont have people getting pissed with you.

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  18. It's "you're". Not "your".

    On your second point, my mouth is generally shut when I comment here, because I don't need to sound out my words to spell them.

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  19. your such a fucking wanker its unbeleiveble

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  20. "You're such a fucking wanker it's unbelievable."

    Jesus, you just don't learn, do you?

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  21. YAWN......
    some day you will LEARN with that attitude and there will be many who will be happy to see it.enjoy your bullshit life asshole.of course everyone knows what your reply is going to be but then again thats all you have got to contribute to this site,BULLSHIT!!

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  22. The version of Hare's test that Vaknin was given was an abbreviated version, specifically designed to screen for the possible presence of psychopathy, called, ironically enough, the PCL-SV.

    Where the standard 20 item PCL-R has a range from 0-40 and the diagnostic point is 30, the 12 item PCL-SV which was used on Vaknin, under highly controlled circumstances, has a range from 0-24. A score of 18 indicates "probable psychopathy," and a score of 13 indicates "possible psychopathy." (though in Europe 13 would be considered more conclusive).

    In comparative tests of the two the PCL-SV is shown to be the more conservative assessment tool and can miss about 5 percent of those who meet the diagnostic point of the PCL-R.

    Vaknin scored 18.

    Perhaps, for his next trick, Vaknin will try "explaining" that Hare rewrote the scale to set him up and that is why it is designated PCL-*SV*.

    On the whole, to coin a phrase:
    "The Psychopath doth protest too much, methinks"

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  23. We should feel bad for PostmodernSociopath. He'll never understand that his brain is defunct, that he reacts like a child, and that everybody hates him. Too bad.

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    Replies
    1. How about 3 ad hominems to the price of one. I don't think, he is impressed by that. ;)

      Delete
  24. narcissism = the irrational need to be worshiped

    ?

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