Monday, September 7, 2009

Sociopath co-parents: defense against the dark arts (part 1)

Co-parenting with someone you don't like can be hard. It can be especially hard if that co-parent is a sociopath. Is it possible to get the sociopath co-parent out of you and your child's life completely? A reader asks:
I believe that my X and father of my baby is a sociopath. When we were first together i found him very charming so I fell for him. I later found out that he is a pathological liar. The majority of what he says is a lie. At the beginning of our relationship I just believed everything he said because I didn't know any better, but the truth eventually came out. He used to always tell me he loved me over and over everyday, but I would get frustrated because his actions would never follow through. Everytime he did something wrong he always blamed it on me. Things were never his fault in his mind. He also never appeared to feel guilty when he did anything hurtful to me. In fact he rarely even knew he did anything wrong until I had to spell out for him how he had been terrible and how it effected me. He never seemed to have the ability to realize on his own that he was doing anything wrong. Everything he does, he does for himself and what makes him happy with no regard for how it affects others.

The relationship ended when I truly fell in love with him and was trying hard to do the best I could to win his love. He got bored. I also got pregnant with his child and during my pregnancy I needed him, but my neediness just pushed him away. He broke up with me and I moved out when I was midway through my pregnancy. I still loved him though and wanted a father for my baby so I kept trying to win his love back. It never worked. He just used me when I offered him everything he wanted and would tell me he would care and be there but never followed through with his promises.

What I am worried about is what to do now that my baby is born. So far the father has made promises to care but has continued to lie, treat me badly, not come around when he says he will etc. When I get mad at him and explain to him what he has done wrong he will maybe act as though he cares for a couple of days. Or when his family gets mad at him for being a terrible father he will try and care because he doesn't want to deal with crap from his family. Because of his inability to feel guilt or no when he is doing wrong, I am very scared to have him around my baby or take him into his care. I am worried about trying to kick him out of me and my babies life though because then I think he'll feel it as more of a game to go to court and fight for custody and will do so, not because he cares about the baby and seeing him, but because he doesn't want to lose. What do I do? How can I get him to leave me and the baby alone and disappear from our lives. I'm scared to let him be around, but I'm also scared of trying to make him go away because it might actually make things worse. Please help.

25 comments:

  1. I have a friend who is going through the same situation strangely enough, (she is doing my fucking head in actually with her phone calls) so il tell you what i keep telling her.(which falls completely flat on her dumb deaf ears)..here goes....
    You need to be clever on this one. If that means being ruthless, cunning, calculating and devious for the sake of your baby, you be exactly that. If your partner is a sociopath and you are scared to leave your newborn in his care then the answer is simple. DON'T. If that means not putting him on the birth certificate. DON'T. If that means disappearing off the face of the earth with your newborn. DO. If you have to change yours and your newborns name legally. DO. If your smart you can erase yourself. It can be done if you have the sense. (Which a lot of women are lacking these days....im not sorry girls...its true) He can only take you to court if he knows your address. If this means cutting off friends that you both share so that he doesn't get any infomation as to your where abouts. DO IT. You have a newborn to think about. If he is a sociopath, he isn't going to give a flying shit about the "inconvienince" you have just given birth to. Don't try to understand him. You can't afford to if you are scared to have him around the baby. Why take any chances? Its very easy to disappear if you truely want to. Don't get all silly, irrational and emotional, he'l see the chink in your armour, then he'l go straight for the jugular. You need to be as cool and calm and collected as you can. Ignore phone calls, change your number, change your email, change your city if you have to. You don't fight fire with fire. You fight fire with a great big ice cold blanket. He needs a reaction, without that reaction you will eventually bore him and he will find someone else to torment, Don't worry about it though, its their problem lol. I have sociopath family members, they are alright as long as you draw the lines and stick to them. Ignoring them can be the only thing to do at times though. Then again iv learnt a great deal at how to get by in life from those family members. They can be useful lol. But if you are scared of what he could do to your child then i think if your honest with yourself you know what you have to do to keep your baby safe.
    What you have to rememeber is if your babys father is indeed a sociopath his pathological lying is a natural part of the person he is, it doesn't always mean that he is deliberately trying to upset you. Thats the way a sociopath is. Accept it. Simple as that. Its when he starts to TRY to upset you that you have to worry, lol. Thats when things can get a little bit sticky. So don't piss him off. Its best to just cut your loses on this one. :)
    And whatever you do, under no circumstance start to "reminise". That will be your downfall. Its a game of snakes and ladders. Being an empath allows you to feel the whole spectrum of emotions...so you will know you are capable of calculation. Its not hard to do when you stop attributing irrational feelings to him. Its your " irrational feelings" that he will use to bring you down, time and time and time again. Don't be a doormat, stop whinging about what he is doing to you, get a grip, see the wood for the trees and do something about it. Only you can help yourself.

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    1. excellent!!!! Excellent advice!!!

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    2. Danm.... the ruthless truth..I am so glad that I read this comment!

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  2. I don't understand what makes ordinary people think they're so special. I don't care about them, because they are the same as everyone else. Interesting people, I try not to hurt.

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  3. Solid advice once again Tink. It’s a shame to let one dude drive a person away from everything they’ve known though. I guess it depends on what type of person we’re dealing with. If we’re dealing with someone who’s relentless and intelligent and possessive, then yeah, disappearing might be a good idea. Or conversely, the villainous ex might himself ‘disappear’… As of 2007, between 35 to 37% of murders and/or cases of non-negligent manslaughter went unsolved in the US nationwide. The rate rises to 50% for whites and upwards of 60% and higher for blacks and Latinos in ‘urban’ areas. And in the UK, unsolved murder rates doubled as of 2007 as well. Looks like there are a goodly number of people out there who got away with murder.

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  4. Not that I would ever seriously or even remotely suggest someone do anything illegal.

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  5. Of course you wouldn't Daniel, who would suggest such a thing lol :), but your right on your other post it is ashame to allow one guy to drive another away, but in this womans question she sounded pretty desperate. And "if" he really is that scary, then she shouldn't be wasting time hanging about when there is a kid involved.

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  6. This is bullshit. This guy doesn't sound like a sociopath, he sounds like he doesn't give a shit about you. He only cares about himself, and you sound dumb enough to buy it. Or at least to have bought it. That doesn't make him calculatingly manipulative. Lying doesn't make him a sociopath. Not giving a shit about you doesn't even make him a sociopath. He sounds like an irresponsible guy trying to skate through life the easy way, as things suit his fancy. Maybe that's a sociopath, but either way you're an idiot to try to continue to involve him in you and your child's life.

    Did you get pregnant on purpose? I don't doubt it. You tryed to win the love of a user and a scumbag and got burned. That's on you, not on the guy that took advantage of you. He won't give a shit when you leave. He'll think he cares and try to get to see his kid because he feels like he should or he would no longer be able to deny to himself that he really is a scumbag and failure as a person.

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    1. Dear Jasnowflake.

      It is very clear you have just displayed all the characteristics of a sociopath. No empathy, picking on her soft spots and being really bullying and mean. But then again you wont' think you are.... ANOTHER SIGN!

      Get help.

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  7. I'll tell you if he is an actual sociopath and not just a spoiled lazy brat then he thinks the general population is inferior he's learned to expect things from your caring. My experience with my childs father was not unlike yours and I had warnings from his past psychologist urging me to take her advice and shut him out for good due to his antisocial disorder he could never be the father I hoped time would make him.I thought she was way off because he was the most social person I had ever met. Capable of making a total stranger into his boss,roommate,and best friend in less than 10 minutes.I witnessed complete strangers give him house keys,family heirlooms,cash you name it dozens of times.But one thing his Dr. said to me that stuck was not to enable him to use me don't be an enabler. So one day I was instructed to do his errands and he was to wait for me to complete them at my home with our daughter and she was still an infant. I thought well this is their first chance to bond at 1yr old.He willfall in love with her if he spends a few hours caring for her and when I return and say I went and did things for me instead he won't care cause he would love the chance to be with his daughter, but if he's angry he may not actually love us at all. When I came home they were glad to see me then he asked if I did his chores and I said no I did'nt make time. He attacked me with an axe I grabbed my 1yr old infant child and ran like hell as a swung without restraint it buzzed by clipped my ear and as it passed my face that same swing went by my daughters blond curls so narrowly missing her head that I'll never forget that moment that monster could have taken her life. God bless the nosey neighbors who called the police that day he was taken from my home in the back seat of a police car he sat and calmly told them how he was typically at home caring for our daughter while I was out having an affair. I did get a restraining order and we lived happily for seven years without even so much as a phone call from him my daughter does'nt remember and she has called another man dad who loves her for 7 years she did'nt know he he existed until one day his mom who I trusted changed everything long story short my beautiful smart daughter is being manipulated as we speak and god knows what else as we fight for custody while he takes computer and art classes that his mommy pays for drives a new car and lives in a nice house all paid for by mommy so long as he pretends to be the hero who is saving his healthy overacheiving daughter from 2 financially stuggling loving parents.So my advise to you is find a way to get a restraining order and when your child does'nt know him as daddy remove his parental rights legally like I should have when I could have cause even though she has been raised by my fiance now for 8 yrs he has no rights to her at all. Now I worry for my safety once again cause if he loses this court case my life is in danger he is much smarter now than he was back then and an accident could happen to me making him win by default and live of her SS and the inheritance she'll get from family and with a meal ticket like that he is too smart to have to work a job like the rest of us dumb fools.

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    1. Why should your boyfreind have rights over your childs father?, mothers like you are sick in the head , I am a mother and I would never keep my child from knowing his father no matter what I thought about him , Get some mental help for yourself , you need it for your childs sake.

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    2. No she did the right thing: Can't you see the man nearly killed her and her child! Her only mistake was to keep a connection with his mother.

      With sociopaths either you have to run as far away as possible or counter-manipulate, picking your battles, documenting abusing behavior and lies in a log. Get help from an expert to strategize how to protect you and your child by adjusting how you communicate with such man.

      Teach your child to see the lies and the manipulation. Find a therapist with direct expertise in manipulation and make sure your child sees one. Note that sociopaths are also good a manipulating therapy so better NOT have family therapy.

      That may take years because he will buy the child's love and charm the child.

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  8. Yes, my father is..I'm pretty sure, one of "them". Unfortunatley I picked up a lot of his behavior..though it must've been genetic since he was never around when I was a kid. the occasional random visit, no child support etc. Then one day he started stalking me. I'm serious he'd show up at my workplace on a regular basis. Frankly I was shocked, since I had purposely NOT given him my address or phone number, in hopes I'd NEVER see him again. He'd convince me to "hook him up" with free sandwhiches. Feeling somewhat sorry for him, because he is, indeed A PATHETIC HUMAN BEING, I made him a sandwhich and pretended to ring him up so my boss wouldn't fire me. (i.e. I risked my job in order to feed my own deadbeat father and he KNEW it!)

    Long story short, he eventually convinced me to move in with him so he could "make up for lost time" The deal was, I was to go to college fulltime and not pay any rent. He said he was "coming up on some money" and he'd buy me truck and let me stay at his place until I graduated college. Can't believe I fell for it! Within 3 weeks he drove me into complete madness. After 10 months of not smoking I was driven bonkers enough to start again. He used my smoking as an exuse to have me pay him 300.00 a month. (It was either "quit smoking" or I'll change the locks...or you can start paying some rent.) Whatever, needless to day, there was never any truck like he promised and just more bullshit.

    My half sister hasn't spoken to him in over 7 years and I dont' blame her. We were speaking on the phone last night and I mentioned my suspicion of him being a sociopath. "Wow, I've been thinking thats what he is for YEARS." She said. Unfortunatley, I have noticed that I exhibit lot of the same self centered and irresponsible behaviour...It frightens me and I'm scared I'll never be able to live a normal life :/

    I've honestly considered leaving the state and officially changing my name.

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  9. Hi, sorry to just jump in.. 15 years ago i was fooled by a true sociopath.. I believed all his lies and manipulations...(he is a profesional con). I too got pregnant, and that is when the abuse started... over a span of 7 years, on numerous occasions i was trapped, kicked, punched, pushed, hit, he even pulled a knife on me once and sliced up the jacket i was wearing. With all that said, these are not what scars still remain for me. As bad as all that sounds, it is the emotional and mental abuse that still haunts me and that I am still trying to recover from... But even more importantly then myself I now have a 14 year old daughter who is beyond depressed and angry and hurt by her father. I thought i did right by doing what thebooks say and not "bashing" on her father. But I now wish I would have just been up front with her from the begining about the monster he is. I have never allowed more then supervised visitations either with his mother to watch or my (now amazing) husband and myself present. But she is still realizing and being brought down by his lies and mind games and hurtful ways. Being 14 it is hard for me to now after all these years FORCE her to cut ties with him (even though my heart is still trying to find way to do so and to protect her from him) but I cant sit still and watch my little girl suffer like this anymore.. I try to teach her all the positive and strengthening things I have gained from the experience to try and help her through this in the healthiest way posible, but i feel like im losing this battle. Coucelors just tell her to write her feelings to him, tobe suportive while he "grows and changes" but they dont seem to have a clue about the dangerous manipulative void man they are dealing with. In my opinion her best option is to get rid of him and focus on herself and healing.. He will never let her heal and be healthy as long as he is in the picture. i dont know.. Ive managed to mostly protect myself from the hurt and abusiveness he is, butyet here I am still devistated because of the hurt he causes my daughter.. I thought i succeeded atprotecting myself from him, but because i have failed at protecting her, i guess in all honesty I have failed atprotecting me too..
    Thank you for letting me just get a shortened version of my story out there.. sometimes itjust helps to talk amungst others who have simular sorrows or situations. Love to you all! whether you are in a life with a sociopath or have escaped from one you are all survivors...

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  10. I googled this problem because I'm going through a similar situation. My ex isn't a diagnosed sociopath, but all the signs are there. I was just wondering whether you managed to get away. I'm 6 months pregnant and I'm considering the ruthless cunning approach that has been suggested by other people commenting here. I just need to know if anyone has actually managed to keep someone like my ex out of their baby's life.

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    1. Yes. I did escape. I am terrified to even write this post because he could have hacked into my computer and watch my every more and see this, then he would know. But, if you have experienced anything like I have you will GET OUT NOW!!! Change your name, number, email and find a new apartment or home. I did at 6 months. I still live in fear he will find me. I feel like he watches us and keep tabs on us but I couldn't be happier that i do not have to deal with him directly. I feel safer with him not in my baby;s life. I have struggled with how i will tell my baby when she gets older and if I did the right thing by getting him out of my life, but in my gut- I know I did do the right thing- its everyone else's idea of what "the right thing" that throws me off, but they have NO IDEA what it's like to be with someone like that. someone who uses people to benefit himself and does not care about anyone other than himself. he uses people, kids, family to his advantage only and appears to do whats right for others but only to make himself look good. Please, get out! It was the hardest thing, I lost friends and family respect for cutting him out of my life, they didn't even want to hear my side of the story and said i was being dramatic if i tried to explain his behavior. Every day that passes, i know i am a stronger person for doing whatever i had to do to protect my baby from him. My hands shake as a try to decide to publish this. Please take my advice and leave him in the past, leave the people who don't support or believe you in the past too. my first mistakewas telling him i was pregnant, my second was telling people i thought i could trust that it was his baby.

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  11. I'M PRETTY SURE MY FIANCE & FATHER OF MY DAUGHTER IS A SOCIOPATH. WE HAVE BEEN TOGETHER FOR 5 YEARS & I'M JUST NOW REALIZING THAT HE'S NOT JUST AN ASSHOLE HE HAS A DISORDER. HOWEVER, MY SPOUSE USES ANY & ALL DISORDERS, PROBLEMS, SET BACKS, ECT AS A TOOL AGAINST PEOPLE. MY DAUGHTER IS 3 & OFF THE CHARTS SMART. SHE PICKS UP ON ANYTHING & EVERYTHING. SHE KNOWS WHEN HE'S 'MAD' & CALMLY ASKS WHATS WRONG WITH DADDY NOW? HE HAS PHYSICALLY ABUSED ME MULTIPLE TIMES. HE'S DESTROYED HOUSES, PROPERTY, EVERYTHING. BUT ALWAYS RETURNS TO THE SITUTATION IN TEARS APPEARING TO BE HEARTBROKEN & I GIVE HIM ANOTHER CHANCE. I HAD A PROTECTIVE ORDER ON HIM & SOMEHOW HE SWAYED ME TO HAVE IT REMOVED. I KNOW I'M AN IDIOT BUT LIKE I SAID I JUST STARTED DOING SOME RESEARCH A FEW DAYS AGO TO FIND THE SIMILARITIES BETWEEN HIM & A SOCIOPATH. ON THE LISTED 15 TRAITS OF A SOCIOPATH IS EXIBITS ALL 15 ALL THE TIME. HE WAS RECENLTY ELECTROCUTED (which he also uses to his advantage) & HAS BEEN DIAGNOSED WITH PTSD. HE CLAIMS THE WAY HE IS NOW IS DO TO THE ACCIDENT BUT IM SURE THATS A LIE. MY MOM, SISTER, & SEVERAL OTHER PEOPLE KEEP TELLING ME I NEED TO FIGURE SOMETHING OUT BEFORE I END UP IN A FREEZER. BUT HE'S TOLD ME MORE THEN ONCE THAT IF WE LEAVE, WE'LL NEVER HAVE A NORMAL LIFE. HE'LL ROB MY MOM, HARRASS ANY NEW LOVE INTEREST I HAVE, & EVENTUALLY TAKE MY DAUGHTER & RELOCATE WHERE I CAN NEVER FIND HER. I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO. I'VE NEVER BEEN SCARED UNTIL NOW & NOW THAT I'M INFORMED & READING OTHERS POSTS THAT ARE IDENTICAL TO MINE I'M FREAKING OUT!!! WHAT DO I DO???

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  12. Here it goes...If you are with a sociopath and you are pregnant: I know you love them, and I know they are charming, and probably good in bed, but you MUST leave. You need to disappear. They will eventually take your child if you ever leave them. They fight harder than you would ever think of fighting. They will stalk you and harass you until some custody evaluator (who knows he is a sociopath) recommends your child live with him. They do this so that the sociopath doesn't have anything else to try and WIN from you. They do it so you, who will be totally afraid of him, won't alienate him. Because you will eventually. It get so tiring that you will burn out. If you have a child with a sociopath, OMG, you might as well stay. At least you will know that you are there to care for your child and to make sure he doesn't kidnap her. I am sorry...It's a nightmare. I was pregnant and had no idea... I should have left...I shoudl have run like hell and now, my beautiful daughter has suffered dearly and I have nearly killed myself tryig to protect her. These are not normal people.

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  13. My son's father is a sociopath...and since I CUT HIM OFF I BEEN SO HAPPY AND PEACEFUL!!!!!!! So, Ladies if your babydaddy a sociopath RUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN AS FAR AWAY FROM HIM AS POSSIBLE!!!!!!!!"!!!!!!!"!!!"!!!!!!!!

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  14. My daughters father is a sociopath. I believe he was diagnosed with anti social disorder. I am afraid for her. Even worse his family is very aware of his behavior and yet seems to think I have a part in his complete cruelty. ( he is very manipulative) even though others know who he truely is, they somehow still think its a good idea for him to be around her. He knows my children are my life, so my biggest fear is he will hurt her to hurt me.

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  15. My daughters father is a sociopath. I have managed to cut all contact off and start a new life. However, without caring for my childs well being as many of you mentioned above, he is now taking me to court for parenting time... I thought I escaped him but now he seems to be pissed I dont care and cut him out, he is bored and now wanting to fight. HELP in MN Im thinking of getting social services involved.

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    1. We just won in a 2day trial a plenary order of protection for our 4year old grandson. To date we have spent $30,000.00 in legal fees. Because he sodomized our grandson we can now go to court and terminate his parental rights. Our ex-son in law is a diagnosed sociopath and 2 time felon. He is a prolific liar and wants to win. He has never paid a cent in child support. He warned our daughter that he would take her son and she would never see him again. He tried but by the grace of God he hasn't gotten away with it. The thing is the legal system is of NO help in protecting the child. Lawyers actually told us he has to kill the child, almost kill the child or sexually abuse the child to stop visitation. They are not there to protect the child just there to pick up the pieces after the damage has been done. Until our grandson could speak well enough to tell his preschool teacher and a counselor what was being done to him nothing could be done for him. Visitation was court ordered so there was nothing we could do to protect him. In the courts eyes you are a vindictive bitch so anything you can say is a lie. Talk to your child about good touch and bad touch. Document everything that happens. Everything your child says and does that indicates abuse. Pay for your child to get counseling so that in the play therapy if anything comes out the therapist can testify for the child. Encourage your child to talk about their feelings. Inform others of your plight so that they can be on the lookout if they see something in your child indicating abuse. I believe Sociopaths should not be allowed to have any contact with children. Maybe if enough people report of the many abuses sociopaths inflict on children maybe we can get protection for them. As of now we are paying for the counseling our grandson needs for the rest of his life. Ask your attorney to request a psychological evaluation on your child's father and insist that he pay child support. Our ex-son in law is now contemplating voluntarily giving up his parental rights because he doesn't want to pay for the back child support that has built up over the years. Pray! Ask for the best attorney there is. Document Everything, Date it. Look your child over every time she comes home from visitation. My husband looked him over while he was sound asleep and saw the bruised rectum. We took him to the hospital and they took photos of his bruised little body while he was still asleep. Your photos do not count. The court sees them as being able to be contaminated. Everything has to be proven by an objective party. Jesus loves the little children especially so pray that He delivers you and your child from this evil.

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  16. Trash people here. The baby is NOT hers. It is "their" baby. Men have equal rights to their children. Stop making excuses to take those rights away as if you are doing good for the child doing so. If he wants to be a part of his child’s life, then you are WRONG on him being so selfish. It is you who are selfish, self centered and self serving if you believe keeping a father away is for the best interest of the child. As far as the advice to not put his name on the birth certificate, that is so low and scummy!
    Children always do better with their father involved in their life.
    The people here are the type to use the father as an ATM machine and then deny his rights to his own child.
    LOOK UP PARENT ALINATION! It is like a check off list here.

    Get your facts straight! From the Justice Department:
    • The number one group of people with “confirmed” physical abuse to their children are the mothers.
    • The number one group of people who MURDER their own children are mothers! You don’t even need the Justice Department for that one … just the 6 o’clock news.
    • A child is 70% more likely to be neglected by the mother than the father.

    These statistics are but the tip of the iceberg as women are notorious for covering up each other’s violent physical abuse of their own children! And then make up fake BS on me.
    Or as one cop said, “I have never in my career arrested a biological father for being stupid.
    There are always the idiots who always say to put the child with the stepdad.

    When statistics are done on men vs women on raising children, the child when raised by the father is:
    1. Less likely to become pregnant before 18.
    2. More likely to finish school.
    3. Less likely to be put in drug or alcohol abuse centers.
    4. Less likely to go to jail.
    5. Less likely to commit suicide.
    6. And it goes on and on.

    The biggest joke of all, women believe they are the protectors. Lol! Look in a mirror at yourself next to your man and think again on who God DESIGNED to be the protector.
    Still don’t get it? Then look at the “Bat Man Premiere”. 3 men who were ONLY boyfriends grabbed their girlfriend, threw them onto the floor, and then took the fatal bullet for those women. Not one single woman did such for their husband, her own children, much less their boyfriend.

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    1. This is the biggest load of bs I have read..ever. Apparently you've never met a sociopath. His own family warned me of him, and told me they would disown and kick him out of the family and keep me, if we ever broke up. My father was murdered when I was 5. Yeah, I've got some issues, but I also have a conscious. Because growing up without my father caused so many emotional problems in myself, I was hell bent on my daughter knowing her dad. Even after everything he put me through. He caused me to hyperventilate while I was pregnant. And forced me to go out and look for a job and refused to work. I was sure I was going to have to put my child up for adoption...this was an emotional hell in itself. HE held a a job for less than 4 months in the duration of our 2 year relationship. He had plans for every dime of my paycheck before I ever even brought it home. Sat at home on his xbox and watching porn while I worked 6 days a week for 12 hours each day and had the nerve to tell me "you need to clean this place up". He got us kicked out of our camper, and forced me to spend the last $60 of my money on getting his xbox fixed, knowing I was pregnant and needed food. My baby and I practically starved at one point. He forced me to go around a store begging people for money. I can go on and on. But the bottom line is sociopaths do not care about anyone not even their own children, not because they don't want to, because they simply can't. I will not expose my daughter to that, regardless of "statistics".

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  17. "Anonymous" lost me as soon as he used the Batman premiere to make a point on men vs women. LOL. Try again.

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