Monday, September 7, 2009

Sociopath co-parents: defense against the dark arts (part 2)

My response:
Have you read this post?

I think in general the best way to get rid of a sociopath is to poison the well. But first you have to be absolutely sure that you want to be rid of him. It sounds like you still like having him in your life or in your child's life.

But if you are sure you want to get rid of him, my advice specific to you would be to hit him where it will probably hurt the most, financially. Speak with a lawyer about what sort of child support he would be legally liable to pay. Start collecting damaging information about him that you could use in a custody battle. For example, does he have unsavory guests at his house, does he smoke, drink, or have a history of violence or crime? If he is a true sociopath, you should be able to come up with quite a bit of dirt. Consider hiring a private detective. Find out things that he does not want you to know, things that would make him seem very unsympathetic in a custody hearing. Clean up your own past. Make sure that you are seen as a model parent. This is all very important preparation. You know what they say about planning: "To be prepared is half the victory." Sociopaths typically think at least a few steps ahead for their own actions, so you have to come up with your own defensive and offensive strategies.

After you have made yourself seem like the perfect parent and made him look like a terrible parent (3-6 mos? Don't rush things, make sure they are right before you do anything), start complaining about how he never does enough for the child. Be whiney and annoying.Mmake him wish that he had never met you. Whenever your child sees the father, try to schedule times for when he is sure to be upset -- hungry, tired, teething, etc. I'm not necessarily suggesting that you torture your child for his sake, but it might help. After about a month or two of this, start complaining about child support. Say that you are going to hire an attorney unless he pays you (double that amount your attorney said you could get from him). Do not tell him that you have already consulted an attorney. Do not tell him that you have already done background checks on him. Never tell a sociopath that you are plotting against him. Always make yourself seem as incompetent as possible. Your weapons that you have gained against him (information, etc.) should only be used as a counterattack, not the initial attack. You are like the southern army at Gettysburg -- on a hill, the strong point. If you got off your hill because he draws you into an attack, all is lost.

Hopefully he will start thinking that you are more trouble than you are worth. If so, try to get him to think it would be a good idea if he gave up custody. Suggest that you might be getting married or dating someone else who wants to adopt the child.

If he does not give up custody, perhaps if you have provoked him into some sort of action, e.g. hiring a lawyer or trying to get custody himself, then your next best option is to give him enough rope to hang himself. Make him think that you are still doing nothing. Hide all the cards until he shows up one day in court and you have all these witnesses and evidence suggesting that he is a terrible person. All his misdeeds will be public, the court can order a restraining order, and you will hopefully be given legal protection from him for you and your child.

Hope this helps. If it is true that your ex is a sociopath, that means your child may also be a sociopath. Read this post. Get more savvy. Read books on manipulation like The 48 Laws of Power, so you can recognize when others are trying to manipulate you. Always have an escape plan for everything, a ready made excuse. But don't talk to people about this. People can't be trusted not to talk. In a war with a sociopath, information is the only real power you will have. Guard it with your life.


  1. Absolutely brilliant advice m.e. However she has to be strong to do all that, she has to be resilient, she has to be able to persevere. She has to be able to use her instincts, most importantly she has to be able to think on her feet. She has to be able to act convincingly, e.g (cry on th spot, lie if she has to, feign emotion in court, detach herself from feelings of anxiety and "present" herself as the victim without truely being one). All whilst dealing with a newborn, the sleepless nights, the breast feeding, teething, colic the daily grind, bills, housework, babys dr appointments, the list goes on and on etc. PLUS court.
    If she is anything like my friend she won't be able to do it (sorry). She will break under pressure,the court room will intimidate her, she will allow him to worm his way back in, she will start to "bargain" with him. She will start atrributing irrational feelings to him in relation to the child she has bore him, and he will play on that outside of court. Things will get dirty and underhand. All he has to do is prove she is deeply depressed and not coping by sending the social services around at a time when he knows she won't be dressed and the housework will be in complete disarray. He will know what buttons to press and given the circumstances he could play her like a fiddle. Then within a few months she will be back to square one and her sociopath ex will have gained a lot of knowledge in terms of how far she "can't" go. However if she has some natural grit and steely determination then yeah she should take your advice to the letter and endure. But if she had those characteristics she would know instinctively what she had to do without having to ask for advice on the internet. She is in a very vulnerable position right now and he will know this. All he has to do is make her jealous and he could completely unravel her and a court case, e.g parade a new hot young woman on his arm so word will soon get back to her, whilst she is stuck in night after night feeling tired and unsexy with swollen lactating tits and a grumpy baby on her arm. lol
    She has to be realistic, if she is still deeply in love with him that alone will floor a court case before she has even stepped through the door. She needs to pack a bag and disappear.

  2. oh and i just thought NEVER suggest you are dating someone else or there is another guy who wants to adopt the child. (sorry m.e but that could cause carnage), That child of his is still his "possession", whether he has parental feelings for the kid is completely irrelevant. Thats like telling a guy you are selling his car without his permission, even if its a clapped out old banger and he wants rid of it anyway! Its a control thing, and he won't want to lose that to another man. Its emasculating. The woman should never make an empty threat, she will completely undermine herself, if there is a guy who is willing to adopt her kid however, keep it quiet, put him on the birth certificate, marry him and disappear. I can't stress it enough lol.
    Your lawyer won't care either way about your feelings, she/he wants paying for her/his work. If that means dragging out a case to bleed you dry then thats what a lawyer will do. Its got nothing to do with the welfare of yourself and your child. Lets be blunt, a lawyer doesn't give a shit. Its all about the money. :) So instead keep it firmly in your pocket for the place your fleeing to.

  3. It's very difficult to keep a determined, patient, unfeeling man out of your life. Court may be the only way, but I would also suggest that you lie about your thoughts, feelings, and intentions at all times. When he senses that he's losing his hold over you, he'll be irresistibly drawn to return and renew it. You don't want him to know anything about what's going on in your head and/or heart when that happens, because he'll use it to confuse, manipulate, and quite possibly torture you.

    Just be careful to lie only about your thoughts and feelings. Don't lie outright about facts, because it's too easy for inconsistencies to accidentally slip through. Omit, reword, and reinterpret, but never blatantly lie unless you're 100% sure you know what you're doing. The last thing you need is to tip this guy off.

  4. Just as an addendum... don't lie stupidly about your feelings. If you're obviously upset, don't try to act like you're not. Imagine a plausible alternate emotional scenario for everything you say or do, and stick to it. Be honest with yourself about how you're acting, and use that to your advantage.

  5. I think Tink and anon from the post about co-sociopathic parenting may be right. If they could do what M.E. suggests they probably wouldn’t be writing in the first place, or if they can, the tone of the emails would be decidedly different. Instead of saying, in essence, “I think I’m dealing with a sociopathic child/lover, help me I’m desperate!”, they’d be saying “I think I’m dealing with a sociopathic child/lover, what tactics can I use to gain control of this situation? M.E., given your experience and intelligence, what is likely to work and what isn’t?”

    War is a good metaphor to use in these types of situations. If you have reason to think your child/lover/parent/friend is a sociopath, then as much as you may love him/her, war is inevitable. (War of one sort or the other is inevitable in any event, as normals are just as prone to want control as any sociopath, only they’re the ones in deep denial of that fact. Instead of calling it war with a view towards dominance, normals call it “doing the right thing by the other person” or “making them see reason” or “doing what’s best” or “law/tradition/how we do things around here” or “following their heart”, etc.) I think it’s easier for sociopaths to think like tacticians since we’re so apt to see social interactions as a game. Many normals tend to think of these things as something “more than that”.

    But if they can pull it off, the advice you guys have given would be useful and well worth acting on. If they can’t, well, reading how a sociopathic mind naturally works is instructive for those who come to M.E.’s blog looking for insight and understanding.

    I’d be curious to see how many of these people who write in wanting to know how to “handle their sociopath” actually took the advice and if so, what happened.

  6. Thats right Daniel!! War is war!! No point trying to sex it up or suger coat it lol, and if this woman is a good liar...then lie through your back teeth if you have to. Or at least grossly exaggerate!!! She should practice infront of the mirror if she has to, rehearse the lines as if she were acting in a drama. lol, because she can be damn certain he won't be playing fair if she takes him to court...lets face it, who does?

  7. Why aren't we a group of dewy eyed romantics? lol

  8. I think war is romantic. Don't you?

  9. Romance is merely a smoke screen, possibley used to conceal something more sinister. If a guy buys you "freshly picked strawberry's" from a quaint little farm out of the blue ladies, start sniffing around until you find the cause (because there will definately be one) lol :)

  10. Again with the sweetness and light Tink. I swear, all this lovey dovey stuff is going to be the death of me! lol

    You were the first person I interacted with via this blog. Back then you talked about being in love with a dude I christened "Mr. Beautiful Creature". Well, you said he was your ex. So, is he still your ex? Do you have any contact at all?

  11. ooooh Daniel, lol, thats a bit of a juicy question isn't it.
    "Mr Beautiful Creature", yeah he still contact's me, sociopaths are persistant il give them that!!! lol. He is indeed an ex and always will be. Love is such a funny word isn't it?....i love chocolate, i love saturday night, did i love "Mr Beautiful creature"? No i didn't, (but i can pretend i did if its going to win me points lol) he was more like an addiction. I tend to like whats bad for me :) who doesn't? People sometimes confuse feelings of "addiction" for something more, im guilty of that myself. I had the urge to ruin him for being an inconvienience in my life, just as he has the urge to ruin me. Its been a game of cat and mouse from the start. Its nothing more than a dangerous attraction between us. He always comes off worse yet still comes back for more, bless him. I don't see us ever making a truce. Im too stubborn for that. It drives him to distraction. We like to toy with each other when either one of us gets bored. (i will always have the upper hand, because im smart and he just "thinks" he is) The sexual chemistry is intense and the way he glares at me with his unwavering piercing blue eyes just makes me want to spread my legs and let him eat me!! lol But il never let him have me, no matter how much he crys with fustration! i just dangle infront of him like a carrot on a string, its far more satisfying knowing im stuck in his head when he's having sex with his boring "safe" wife!!! ha im such a bitch.

  12. I like this advice. It illustrates the emotionally driven empath unable to think or function past the emotions before their face in the parent. She can't think because of how much she's feeling. And so she seeks the advice of a sociopath to give her calculated, logical, malicious and necessary action. This couples the above post quite well as far as people desiring to be sociopaths. If they didn't wish they could think in their lives they wouldn't come here for this advice.

    And empathic weakness is demonstrated in this silly girls inability to have done or do what she knows and knew to be necessary the entire time. Now she has an issue out of her control because she thought too much with her love of such a charming douchebag.

    Honestly, I've dated the charming douchebag, for far too long, and realised pre child that it was a huge mistake. For me it was trying to be emotional, for this girl it's just plain emotional. She never even had a reason to suspect he cared about her and still wanted to try to keep him. Insecure, dumb, naive girl. Maybe I'm being a little harsh, but Empaths really do suck as people when they do shit like this. And the thing that makes us think they're weak on an overall whole is the fact that the majority do dumb shit like this. A shining example of sociopathic superiority in their ability to function within the world and maintain their own personal safety.

  13. Daniel Birdick, you touch on an interesting point.

    "War of one sort or the other is inevitable in any event, as normals are just as prone to want control as any sociopath, only they’re the ones in deep denial of that fact. Instead of calling it war with a view towards dominance, normals call it “doing the right thing by the other person” or “making them see reason” or “doing what’s best” or “law/tradition/how we do things around here” or “following their heart”, etc"

    I think a huge difference between the sociopath and the empath is flat out lies. Delusions of the empath allow them to be manipulated because they lie to themselves. They have deep desires to feel, and to blend in and to feel as everyone else does. It's so nice and good in society to care, and cry when you read about starving children so they diligently force them,selves to care when really, all people care about at their core is their own survival. We are animals and have instincts and denying that makes us empathic and weak. When we don't aspire for our own survival and whats bets for us we hinder ourselves and everyone else.

    For example, what girl hasn't stayed with someone for way too long because they didn't want to hurt the other person's feelings? Who did that help? Really? 90% of the time it only makes things infinitely worse when you do finally get the minerals to break up. That, or you just tell yourself you're in love and that you're just going through issues. Who does that help. You're wasting that persons time to be searching for someone who could be right for them. And a million other examples of people's attempt at selflessness and succumbing to their fears to disappoint failing dismally.

  14. Spot on jasnowlake!! all my fellow empaths out there, im sorry but i can not defend you on that one!!! lol its soooooo true!!

    A quick shout out to all of you on "lovefraud", (omg lmao i had a peak on that site to get an insight as to where these emails may be deriving from)....that site ought to be banned!...banned!!!...banned!! Banned i tell you!! Its giving every single empath woman on this earth a bad name!! I couldn't even read the shit ha ha ha. I wanted to puke, i cringed like you wouldn't belieeeve!! No wonder this blog rips empaths to pieces!!! Get some balls ladies!! pleeeaaase!

  15. Jasnowflake said,“I think a huge difference between the sociopath and the empath is flat out lies. Delusions of the empath allow them to be manipulated because they lie to themselves…”

    Bingo. Denial Land, the place where most normals live and die, is made of smoke and mirrors. If you have no emotional attachment to the delusions so many normals cling to for dear life, manipulation becomes almost absurdly easy, as I am rediscovering.

    Tink said, “A quick shout out to all of you on "lovefraud"… that site ought to be banned!...banned!!!...banned!! Banned i tell you!! Its giving every single empath woman on this earth a bad name!! I couldn't even read the shit ha ha ha. I wanted to puke, i cringed like you wouldn't belieeeve!!”

    Thank you! Finally, someone with an at least somewhat normal conscience concurs with me on that website. To be ‘fair and balanced’, some of the blog posts are informative, if a tad moralistic for my taste. But the comment sections… UGH! The self pity doesn’t just border on absurd; it goes way over the line. Still, if one’s ever in need of a natural laxative or if you’re trying to lose weight the bulimic way, reading thru love fraud’s comments section works like a charm! I lost 5 lbs the other night just that way!

  16. I'm sorry, if you have to lie to get what you want then you are bad examples to your children. I would have your children taken off you for child abuse. shame on you all.

  17. I have 3 children 6, 4 and 2 to a complete sociopath with boarderline bi-polar disorder, we where married for 7 years of drama, financial ruin & upset. I met him when I was 23 and believed his manipulations and charm. Once I had our first child I definately knew he wasn't normal as I tried to esablish a normal family life for us. Knowing it would be hard to get away from him I planned for us to move near my parents where I thought he would be accountable for his actions more. My second 2 pregnancies where not planned and each child I had health concerns and took time to recover from (all c -sections) Each time trying to start over our lives a-new with new home & him new job etc but with the same verbal & physical abuse continued. So finally I get him to leave & great for me he moved to another state for 2 years! I regained my self-esteem and made a great drama free life for myself and my 3 kids even though it was hard financially and emotionally being a single mum of 3 young kids, my parents have been a great support.He did not help financially and I hardly heard from him at all until one day he phoned and said he had moved back to town. He wants to see the kids & be part of their lives, every part of me knew this was BAD! I tried to let him visit fortnightly, feeling I should let my kids know thie Dad it's the right thing to do for them and legally I had to allow it. I wanted to control when he was with them so I've never left him alone with them as I do not trust him at all, he has little or no parenting skill especially with young children. This led to him repeating the verbal abuse to me in front of them so I stopped his visitation. Then I am contacted by government mediator on his behalf, set up meeting,I tell her of our history & she tells me I can't stop him seeing the kids so we have a mediation session to arrange the days I'll let him come over & see the kids. I reluctantly do so & minimise visits with his work & my kids activities to one day per fortnight supervised by me. He never seemed interested in the kids or their lives or who they where and some visits would be briefer than others, that was fine by me. I let his family come to my home on Christmas morning after never hearing or having any contact with them for years and did my best to make good of a bad situation for my kids sake. Then the second mediation sesion 8 months into his return to town, he's quiet doensn't add much to the agenda & mediators say we are doing a great job of working things out between us on days available for visitation. We continue the parenting plan as 1 day every other Sunday and he can have Good Friday & Monday after Easter over the holidays(with me always present)I bring up wanting to start the divorce process, he says fine, in front of mediator. Then I get the dreaded phone call, He won't grant me a divorce he has unresolved issues with me brining up arguments from 6 years ago & taunting bad memories all about my relationship with him and nothing to do with the kids, until he says he wants to get a lawyer and get 50/50 parental rights with the kids! He want to take them interstate (for holiday he says) and won't grant me the divorce I so desperately want after all this time without going to court & seeing a judge. After moving around so much when we where together & me having to mentally & emotionally putting so much behind me & staring mine & my kids lives over, I now need to come up with some sort of proof he is a sociopath and completely verbally abusive towards me when no-one is around to witness it-he's not stupid and an excellent con man-he sells cars for a living! Great job for sociopath. My parents are the only people around who have witnessed his psyco behaviour in the the past but I don't know what I should do

  18. I have not let him come to his child visit this week after a highly explosive & abusive phone call from him and have contacted the mediator to set up another time as this is the only way I will be around him, never alone again. Now I will look like I was the one who breached our parentling agreement and he will manipulate that. I don't want my kids to have anything to do with him or be anything ike him and they are happy and have everything they need with me, I just wish he would go and leave us alone but know he will ALWAYS persist with his parenting rights and enjoy taunting me throughout,. He tuly sees them as his possessions and the beautiful people they are. HELP what to do & where to turn next.

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