Saturday, July 16, 2016

Trolling IRL

This was a pretty funny description of someone messing with people for the "puerile desire to get on other people’s nerves," as she describes it (I thought only sociopaths find pleasure in messing with people?).

She describes the game thusly:

All you do is stonily deny any knowledge of a person or cultural touchstone that you should, by virtue of your other cultural reference points, be aware of. These will of course be different for everyone, but my favorites include:

Žižek, John Updike, MORRISSEY (only for experts), Radiohead, Twin Peaks, David Lynch in general, Banksy (only for streetfighters), Withnail and I, Bauhaus (movement), Bauhaus (band), Afrika Burn, the expression “garbage person,” A Clockwork Orange, Steampunk (this one is really good), Jack Kerouac, “Gilmore Girls,” Woody Allen, the expression “grammar nerd,” the expression “grammar Nazi,” cocktails, bongs, magical realism, millennials, Cards Against Humanity, trance parties, bunting, many comedians, William Gibson, burlesque, the Beats, The God Delusion, sloths, anarchism, Joy Division, CrossFit, “The Mighty Boosh,” and Fight Club.

Find someone who is crazy about Morrissey, and pretend you have no idea who that is. It drives people nuts. I don’t know why, but it does. Just kidding, I know exactly why, because I myself have been on the receiving end of the Žižek Maneuver. This girl I had a bit of a crush on told me she had never watched “Twin Peaks,” and it damn near killed me. The reason I had a crush on her in the first place is because we liked so many of the same books, and movies, and music. How could she have never watched “Twin Peaks?” Was she messing with me? How? It did not for a second occur to me that she just hadn’t got round to it. My immediate response was to believe that she had deliberately not watched it in order to get on my nerves. When she told me later that of course she had watched “Twin Peaks,” my eye started twitching.

This is the beating heart of the Žižek Game: the disbelief that something you care about has failed to register on the consciousness of another. The agony of suspecting that someone has looked at Slavoj Žižek’s Wikipedia page and thought “I do not need to know about this man.”

But I thought the most insightful observation of playing this, or really any other game or interaction with another human being, is that you can never be afraid to look stupid:

Your success in this game depends on your ability to cope with people thinking you are dumb. This is so important. Adolescent conditioning—I grew up in a city with a strong surf/skate subculture of people who like to get extremely high—means that I am not only comfortable with people thinking I am dumb, I actually lean into it. I pretend I’ve never heard of Roman Polanski all the time. I do not falter, and neither must you. Your opponent must never have the satisfaction of looking down on you. When they begin to scoff and roll their eyes, because how could you have never heard of the Weimar Republic, you must simply smile and shrug your shoulders. If you look abashed, your opponent has won.

Too true. In the law, it's hilarious to me (and looks terrible to jurors) for lawyers or witnesses to work hard backpedaling on some point in order to save face or pretend like they know what's up. I don't know why we care so much what strangers think of us, but most people do. You absolutely can exploit this. And if you can gain all sorts of situational advantages by refusing to let other people's opinions change who you are, what you are doing, or what you believe about yourself or the world. They don't call it "confidence game" for nothing. Good luck!

111 comments:

  1. FIRST!!!

    WOO-HOO!!!

    ~Vegas

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    1. Hey Vegas, I have a question.... how do you manage it, to write the first comment nearly every time? Are you always sitting in front of your computer (or phone), waiting that someone is starting a new discussion? Looks like your life is not very exciting haha ;) .... Or is it just kind of an inside joke?

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    2. Hey Anon-

      There is a general "rhythm", as to how many days until a new post, and M.E. generally posts them at about the same time of day.:) When the rhythm changes, that is usually, when I am not the first...

      ~Vegas

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    3. Ahhhhh thanks .... that's interessting :) I already wondered because I can not imagine that anyone has absolutely nothing to do and such a boring life :P ... well actually, in a way, I have a boring day right now... otherwise I would not hang out at a dubious sociopath blog haha ... but I found some interessting conversations here... quite funny to read haha :)

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    4. It is time, to give up that game. It was more fun, when others also played. I'll leave you with this...

      Song of the Day

      Augustana

      Boston

      ~Vegas

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    5. ... is saying the person, who has nothing better to do than write "first" under every new post haha. Bty, is there a reason for the many song quotations? That's really not what I expected of sociopaths... it's so... tasteless haha ... anyway... bye :)

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    6. Are you all not aware about RSS feeds?

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    7. of course I am... but nevertheless you need to look on your phone or on you computer... I don't know your life, but I also need to work and I'm not that addicted to the internet haha

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    8. You are "not addicted to the internet" to a degree you need to mention it in the internet comment addressing a random stranger. Sure, whatever you say

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    9. I play this game all the time when I want to shut down boring conversations or people. Try sports as a subject. It works even better if you intentionally inject stupidity into it. When people try to talk football at me ( I actually used to play so I know the subject I just find fucking with people on it more fun than listening to drivel) I ask if the run to basket scores a home run. I keep asking mixed sports questions and looking adorably confused and misunderstanding responses til they give up and move on to something interesting. It really is hilarious. Anime Nerds are harder to derail. They really don't care what you think about their obsession they just want a warm body to regurgitate words at.

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    10. But why don't you stop talking to them then? It could save you a lot of time that you could spend on much more important subjects... you could just ignore boring people

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    11. Anon@10:21 I don't ignore them because
      a: They might have something more interesting to discuss (most people do)
      b: It is fun watching their face when I troll like this.
      I live in Texas and getting people to stop talking about sports is a full time endeavor.
      c: I might be socially trapped with this person ( working etc.)
      d: If you can get out of a conversation without being rude you save the social points for later.

      I always let people know I was trolling them before they get too upset. Usually they get a good laugh out it too. I then use some bonding techniques to turn the situation into a god one for both of us. If sports is ALL the person can talk about though, then yeah I just drive them off.

      Oh I just got it. Sorry. Yeah I have a magnetic personality thing going on. Strangers and well almost everyone of any age and sex and well almost everyone I meet wants to bask in my presence for some reason. I have to drive away people to make them leave me alone when I don't find them equally interesting. I try to do it kindly since I might need the social credit later and I also have a personal code that says I can no longer be cruel to people just to get my rocks off.

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    12. Puppy Basket you're a narcissist

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    13. Anon We all are, even norms, to a degree. I do not deny it. Waves@abc posting anonymously

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  2. "And if you can gain all sorts of situational advantages by refusing to let other people's opinions change who you are, what you are doing, or what you believe about yourself or the world. "

    ME, this is something I'm exploring more generally; as in this is the ingredient needed to truly become who we are.

    Confidence, yes. But I think that's it deeper than that. It's not merely a front but an overflow of self in each particular moment.

    I don't think one need be exploitative in doing this. I, at least, have no inclination nor necessity to exploit. It's a matter of capitalising on the moment's opportunities IAW one's chosen direction.

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  3. I was shocked. Literally shocked. At how little the sociopath I knew actually knew about the world. It was staggering. I don't believe they were pretending not to know though. I think they just spent most of their time watching porn.

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    1. You might be dealing with a Narcissist not a sociopath. Most sociopaths have a driving curiosity about the world. Narcs don't give a crap about anything outside their own sphere. They form an opinion and since it is their opinion and they are the smartest person on the planet they need no facts or added information to back it up. That they have decided to believe it is enough for them and they therefore think that it should be taken as fact by every other person too. A sociopath always adds to their repository of information. It is a survival technique.So I am guessing your sociopath is actually a full blown narc.

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    2. I know this is going to go over like a led balloon but here Goes- they are a narc and a sociopath. You all are narcs and sociopaths. I mean bless your hearts. Don't y'all know?

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    3. It is a matter of how we deal with things Anon@4:37. A narc is attached to their mask to the point that they will become it. They will harm themselves to protect the mask, they will die for it and take down their entire family if revealed or if they think it is slipping. A sociopath is adaptable, malleable and if a mask is revealed or a con goes south we simply slip into a new one and move along. That is difference number one. We are on the same spectrum but the pathology is different. ASPD is on the same spectrum as us but presents VERY differently. If you scroll back to some of my earlier post I have laid out a much more in depth explanation of the differences and how to spot them. I understand what you mean. All sociopaths are narcissistic and all narcissists have sociopathic tendencies however, in practice, we deal with the world and think in very different manners. We are function more like narcs than normal people but then we function more like autistic people than normal people too so that is not really relevant. Also not everyone on the blog is a sociopath. There are contributors like Old and Wise for instant who came to learn how to develop and maintain a relationship with one of us.

      The reason I was trying to help you distinguish is that a sociopath can learn not to harm. Part of that malleable thing. We just need incentive. A narc needs to be avoided at all costs. We think of people as property or sheep or marks. They think of you as an object.

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    4. I find it so strange that sociopaths insist they are so different from narcs. From my experience the only difference is narcs are more innocent. They are too into themselves to even think about wanting to mirror someone else. Maybe that's why sociopaths don't like them.

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    5. Innocent? Bwhahahhaha. They tend to make everyone around them think that yes. While they plot how to best destroy your life. They are into themselves but they NEED to control and destroy everyone around them.
      The reason every sociopath hates Narcs with a burning passion, and we do, we can actually feel that, is that we are their creation. We were raised by one or more. We watched them destroy our family, mentally torture us our entire lives and for some physically or sexually abuse them. Sociopaths are 100% of the time the children of a narc. Not all of a narcs children will be a sociopath, but they will all be mentally crippled in some way. We hate them because we know them without their masks. We hate them because no matter how much damage we can do they are the true masters of damage. Sociopaths practice catch and release with their victims a narc will NEVER let you go.

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    6. Puppy baskets thank you. That makes so much sense.

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    7. And puppy baskets when I said narcs are more innocent I didn't mean malignant narcs. They seem to be very aware of what they do. I meant more selfish narcs that don't necessarily play games.

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    8. Oh dumb narcs. Like most of the population? :)

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    9. You say tomato...

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    10. I just meant every person is selfish and self centered to a point. It is a survival mechanism. We serve ourselves first, we view the world through our own biases. To be selfish is to be human. It is the extent to which you indulge this that separates the people who do good from the people who do harm.

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    11. We are all selfish. And I agree that most of the population is unaware. Puppy baskets you mentioned that all socios come from a home with narc parents. Mine are the typical selfish self absorbed type. Not really malignant game players at all. Just more um unconcerned with others. My sibling on the other hand is a complete sociopath. Malignant game player. But also completely doted on me. I just wonder how that happens. It took meeting the sociopath I knew to finally figure out their strange behavior.

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  4. Well, when you refuse to let other people's opinions change who you are, what you are doing, or what you believe about yourself or the world, then you have become truly old and crusty.

    Have the confidence and humility to realize that people and events do and will change you.

    Of course you can stir changes in the direction you wish to follow.

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  5. Old and crusty. That is so hilarious and true! When the sociopath I knew said they had never heard of something-and they said that quite Often-they said it in such a mean closed off manner. I would imagine some hillbilly on a porch with a shotgun. I know-i have strange mental pictures.

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    1. What did you see in them?

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    2. I have no idea. I don't know who they really are. They seemed kind. At first.

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    3. SpeakING of strange mental pictures... unrelated but a while ago, I saw a picture of 3 beautiful women on a nice beach. The thing is that they each were missing a leg. The picture was for land mine awareness in south America. Chile I believe.

      One of the women on the picture was named Florence Domingo.

      Do you know what I read, or what popped in my mind as I read her name?

      Flamingo..

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    4. That is so bad! And I totally get it! ;-)

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    5. Florence DomingoJuly 18, 2016 at 8:29 AM

      Right, like I've never heard that before

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  6. sanctimonious bilge

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  7. The ability to do either

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  8. hands up who's special

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  9. Great article! Very funny. Thanks.

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  10. Unusual movie-incident: the creepy Peyton Flanders character (Hand that rocks the Cradle) is "detected" by another non-creepy psychopath: Marlene. Anyone seen other movies with two opposing sociopaths involved..?

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    1. Marlene was not a psychopath. If she were one, she would have never acted the way she did after she had found the truth about Peyton

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    2. Marlene was a "neutral" psycho, she did not like that creepy Peyton tried to mess with "her people", this was considered an insult..

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    3. What other traits do you think "neutral psychos" possess?

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    4. " Anyone seen other movies with two opposing sociopaths involved..?" Any "superhero" movie? Most spy movies. Most sitcoms :)

      have you noticed in the sitcoms the people are actually awful human beings? Not really sure where on the spectrum they fall but they start out relateable and then turn into people who keep doing awful, horrible selfish things and then doing worse things to try and cover up their original crime and they are never sorry about doing it just sorry about getting caught and then the next episode they do something worse.

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  11. unrelatedly...

    #4. Violent Psychopaths Were Treated With LSD

    http://www.cracked.com/article_24152_5-psych-treatments-people-somehow-thought-were-good-ideas.html

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  13. "The Cirkle" is an invite-only community for "successful" sociopaths to meet other "successful" sociopaths, educate each other and discuss the alien world we were all born into and have to navigate like a chameleon.. a world which is dominantly occupied by creatures who outwardly look exactly like us, but internally operate on hardware which is wired completely different as compared to our hardware.

    "We Are, Thát's The Question." Send an email to cirk [at] protonmail [dot] com with a short motivation to request an invite.

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    1. Hahaha what a fucked up community. You people got nothing better to do

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    2. Why navigate like a chameleon? Try to get out and loud like me! It is fun! Secret society of Sociopaths. Should be SSS.

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    3. it's way more efficient if nobody knows your real self.

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    4. Anon you would be surprised. Try it and find out. It is more challenging if people know your true self. Up your game my friend.

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    5. So puppy basket, everyone who is close to you, knows that you are a sociopath? I mean did you just told them openly? And do they accept your true self? If your close friends (if you have some), your roommates (who are apparently also somewhere on the sociopath spectrum) and your family can tolerate it... yeah I can understand, but what about your not so close contacts? And your co-workers? Do they also know it and don't cause you problems at work?

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    6. I told them openly. They accept my true self. Most people at work I usually let get to know me and if it comes up in conversation then I explain at that point they know how I behave so they have no problem with what I am. I am a highly principled sociopath I uplift instead of harm so they have seen that I am a benefit to them instead of a danger. Their experience with me has been positive to that point. They know I am usually the hardest worker and best helper and pleasant person so few people have a problem with it. I take the time to explain what me being a sociopath actually is. I debunk a lot of the crap ideas people have about us. Like we are all violent serial killers. I have revealed to relative strangers before and surprisingly had them squee in happiness and become quick friends. (They were all in the medical field though and had sociopath friends.) There are some work fields that are rather dominated by socios so people there kind of take it in stride. My coworkers love me since I am always helpful to them and I am the best person to come to if you have a personal problem since I can listen dispassionately and give logical and insightful advice. The people I work with now are all very nice people. You would be surprised. Not all my roommates are on the sociopath spectrum. My Husband is smack on the line between ASPD and sociopath, roommate two is a passive mid functioning socio but I am training him up to be high functioning and Roommate three is an Empath his BFF who lives with us about half the time is a very emotive norm. about half our circle of friends are socio and half are broken in some other manner :)
      If you know anything about sociopaths we all have one thing in common, one of our parents (minimum) was a full blown Narcissist/pathological liar. Most are dead now or live in other states and I have little to do with them.

      Most of my close friends online know what I am and since I had known them longer before revealing they just accepted it since their experience with me had been that I was a "nice " person and no matter what I was how I acted was more important. I usually build considerable social cred with people before revealing though not always. If a new person is introduced to our circle we all reveal so they will not get blindsided and let them decide if they can handle it. We do explain what they are in for. The rules of the circle though are strict. You are not allowed to mess with another socio's property, you are responsible for your property and their behavior, if your pet causes trouble we will discuss it as a group and find a solution. We have occasionally had a non correctable pet so they are banned from group gatherings. Our Empath's friends are harder to deal with since as a "norm" he is not really considered responsible for their behavior. For him we work with him and the norm to see if things can be smoothed out if not we just juggle the planning so conflict is minimized.

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    7. Honestly part of the reason I have no problem self revealing most of the time is the fact that I look adorably harmless. A skill I picked up from my Narc mother. No one would believe she was evil personified because she had this adorable, tiny, sweet blonde thing going on but if you caught her out and she dropped the mask people would literally back up a few steps and drop their jaws when the monster came out. I have a magnetic personality. I don't even have to speak a word. Strangers even gravitate to me. Customers always request me over other people. Strangers within minutes of meeting me in public will tell me their deepest darkest secrets unprovoked. My appearance and demeanor cause people to think the best of me no matter what I tell them so I have that going for me. I have been "out" for a few years now and I have yet to experience any negative blowback from it. Lots of positive though.

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    8. It's very fascinating how good this works for you... I guess it's worth to try... thank you puppy basket!

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    9. Have fun with it Anon. However start with people you trust. Let us know how it works out for you . We have four people doing now and all of us have had mostly positive experiences. My friends do look more like serial killers than I do though so I am more impressed with their results.

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    10. Yeah I will tell you then. Maybe I also need some more advice then... who knows what will happen...

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    11. I have an other question for you puppy basket, or anyone who like to answer it... you said you are a highly principled sociopath... have you always been like this? If not, how did you managed to be like this?

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    12. Oh hell no I was an evil little shit growing up and well into my mid twenties. I also was an addict/alcoholic 12 step program helped me make the first steps towards being principled and I still pick up tips there. I brought ME's book up a few times and everyone there who read the first few pages totally related. We started a discussion and many alcoholics/addicts seem to be sociopaths too. Kinda awesome. There seems to be major overlap. I learned the basics of how to live a principled life and how helping others like you leads to helping yourself. I did not really figure out I was a sociopath (even though people had been suggesting it for a long time) until about 10ish years ago. It explained a lot. So I have been on a path to continue to learn about it and since my husband and a few friends were also on the spectrum we kinda formed a group and continue to explore and define. I learn more and more each year.

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    13. Good to hear... so there's hope for me haha.

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  14. seems like you also have nothing better to do haha... but I agree about everything :)

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  15. Totally off topic here but I am soliciting outside info to something that is confusing me about how norms think. As most of you know I live with tow other people on the sociopath spectrum and an empath. The empath's best friend, who half the time stays over with us anyway is a complete norm. Roommate two (sociopath low functioning but learning) Has a GF who has a BFF also (introverts low emathic both of them). BFF hates emapth's BFF becuase she reminds her of her sister. No other reason. Therefore GF has decided to hate her also and Roommie has logically decided to adopt the attitude of the two hategirls since he thinks that as a loyal BF it is his duty (he has nothing against her personally he just thinks he should be supportive and wants to keep his social standing with the two hategirls). This weekend they tried to bring me over to "their side". They literally tried to convince me to hate her because they did... The girl in question is young, silly, a bit shallow but one of the kindest people I have ever met. I prefer the company of the hategirls since other than this they are the more interesting and less annoying people to be around, but I had to refuse because as I explained to them:
    a: I don't actually HATE anyone, I don't have the capacity to do that. Light annoyance is about my emotional range.
    b: Even if I did dislike a person I kinda dislike most norms becuase I find them illogical. (case in point)
    c: Even if I had the emotional capacity to hate people I would not let some outside person dictate what I should feel about another person based on their own irrational (or even if it was rational) emotional state.

    So I have a questions for the other sociopaths and one for the norms. For the socios: I realize I lost some social points with the hategirls by not sheepling along with the herd ( I don't give a shit but it is there) what would you guys do in this situation? Keep the social points or speak your mind? Part of my social experiment is doing the right thing and explaining as best I can to the norms how I think.

    For the norms... WTF? how do you people even function in life when your brains make you hate perfectly nice people because they remind you of another person you don't like? I mean I knew this was a thing but REALLY? When I meet a new person I evaluate them on their own merits and form decisions based on THAT PERSONS actions, not on the actions of another person I know. I do understand if the new person is giving off behaviors or vibes that show toxicity you should back away but you should do that based on their behavior and not a that of someone THEY HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH..... and you call us crazy.
    Is this some kind of social test? Some pack behavior thing of "us against them"? Do you really need to not only hate a person for something they have no control over but to try and gt OTHER people to hate them too? Is it so you can justify your own irrational feelings or what? I want to know why.

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    1. I think the "right" thing would be to support the nice girl. At least I would do it because I would not let someone tell me who I have to hate and I think it would be the ethically correct decision... But I also made the experience, that the team spirit in a group is rising if there is a common "enemy/victim". Well it's at the victims expense but for the rest of the group and their friendships it is something positive... Anyway, I don't know if this phenomenon is also visible in a group consisting of various sociopaths.

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    2. "For the norms... WTF? how do you people even function in life when your brains make you hate perfectly nice people because they remind you of another person you don't like?" [etc]

      You appear to have assumed that's normal. It isn't,in my experience. I've never known it to happen to anyone I can think of. It's absurd and abnormal in my opinion.

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    3. I think it is normal... it's the group dynamics... "normal" people can also be very cruel if it favours them

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    4. PS - What you're dealing with there are idiots, who are also not nice people - not typical "norms". There's as much variation within our type as there is within your own.

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    5. @ 11.58
      Not "normal" as in typical - to hate someone because they remind you of someone else in ways that should have no bearing on your opinion of them.

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    6. This is not the first time I have seen this in group dynamics, fr from it. It seems more common among females then in males though. The girls are young so I think this may be a high school learned thing or something. I live in the deep south and I notice this is a group dynamic thing among the ladies here. This kind of behavior is really quite typical here in groups of females. especially if they did not invite the new person into the group themselves but the newcomer is a friend of a friend. i have heard many people over the years say they hate someone because they remind them of someone else. So no, this is not new, it is not odd, it is a commonality in group dynamics that I just got curious about and for the first time had a forum to inquire about it.

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    7. Anon :" Anyway, I don't know if this phenomenon is also visible in a group consisting of various sociopaths."
      It does not seem to be in a group consisting of 100% sociopaths. Our group anyway is completely accepting of everyone else's weirdness because we have no room to judge and are less judgmental than norms. Now that we have added norms into the mix though the social jockying has begun.

      If it is all socios and their mates and our empath friend we have established a circle of tolerant equals. when the norms get involved they seem to immediately draw up social circles and start jockying for alpha status among themselves. They do seem to realize that we are palying on a different level than them so we are immune from/ not included in their games. That they tried to pull me in is what concerned me. I shut that shit down fast but it still made me wonder how norms freaking function.

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    8. I have to admit here are very interesting people and conversations. And I appreciate it to hear of your experiences. May I ask where you are from, puppy basket? I mean which country... "deep south" is not quite precise. Because I never determined that this phenomenon is especially common in female groups...

      So what do you guys usually do? Do you use these group dynamics for your advantage or do you ignore them?

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    9. Thanks for your answer puppy basket. I think this would be an attractive field of research... unless there are already some paper... I didn't verify this.

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    10. "The girls are young so I think this may be a high school learned thing or something."
      That doesn't surprise me. I can imagine it being more typical in high school culture. I've not known it in adults though.

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    11. But I'm not in the Deep South (or the US). Maybe it's more normal there.

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    12. Us deep south, Texas large city to be precise. We usually discuss the norm behavior and then take corrective measures. We actually confront them and make them discuss their behaviors and motivations and then try to guide them into getting perspective on it. Each norm is considered the "property" of their socio so the socio is ultimately considered responsible for their norms behavior. The socio is told to correct the behavior or if they need help guided in how to do so. We often bring any troubles we are having with our norms to the rest of the group for insight. "how do you deal with this illogical behavior my norm is displaying?" Why are they doing it? Then if the socio needs help I am called in to mediate. It usually works pretty well. I have been thinking about my own situation and have gotten some insights on it in the meantime. The girl who dislikes the empaths BFF has social anxiety, she was pretty much a group of two with my roommates GF until their relationship started now she is being forced to socialize if she wants to share BFF's time. She is comfortable with just the four of us, me, roommate, bff and her but seems ill at ease with both empath and his bff, she might be just trying to tighten the group back up again by getting rid of both of them in one move. If empath's bff gets excluded he would opt out too. Kinda impressive move she attacks not the empath or Bff as being objectionable but that the bff, through no fault of her own, makes her uncomfortable. As it is an emotional appeal based on her discomfort and not an outright attack she can claim moral neutrality and you cannot logically argue against it. She had no way to know it would not work on me since she is socially inept but points for effort.

      Delete
    13. Us deep south, Texas large city to be precise. We usually discuss the norm behavior and then take corrective measures. We actually confront them and make them discuss their behaviors and motivations and then try to guide them into getting perspective on it. Each norm is considered the "property" of their socio so the socio is ultimately considered responsible for their norms behavior. The socio is told to correct the behavior or if they need help guided in how to do so. We often bring any troubles we are having with our norms to the rest of the group for insight. "how do you deal with this illogical behavior my norm is displaying?" Why are they doing it? Then if the socio needs help I am called in to mediate. It usually works pretty well. I have been thinking about my own situation and have gotten some insights on it in the meantime. The girl who dislikes the empaths BFF has social anxiety, she was pretty much a group of two with my roommates GF until their relationship started now she is being forced to socialize if she wants to share BFF's time. She is comfortable with just the four of us, me, roommate, bff and her but seems ill at ease with both empath and his bff, she might be just trying to tighten the group back up again by getting rid of both of them in one move. If empath's bff gets excluded he would opt out too. Kinda impressive move she attacks not the empath or Bff as being objectionable but that the bff, through no fault of her own, makes her uncomfortable. As it is an emotional appeal based on her discomfort and not an outright attack she can claim moral neutrality and you cannot logically argue against it. She had no way to know it would not work on me since she is socially inept but points for effort.

      Delete
    14. That's a different kettle of fish and rings a lot truer to me. Someone trying to get their way through subtle emotional maneuverings I find easy to believe is probably common, with women in particular.

      Delete
    15. Hi PuppyBasket,

      "If it is all socios and their mates and our empath friend we have established a circle of tolerant equals. when the norms get involved they seem to immediately draw up social circles and start jockying for alpha status among themselves. They do seem to realize that we are palying on a different level than them so we are immune from/ not included in their games. That they tried to pull me in is what concerned me. I shut that shit down fast but it still made me wonder how norms freaking function."

      Alliances shift quickly and easily in times of social disturbance. This is just what happens, the way we work. If things look turbulent socially, it's all systems go to find an ally who has approximately similar goals.

      Survival and all that in the pleistocene.

      Emotions drive this behaviour and they are amped up to the max. Exclusion is death, more or less, in our brains.

      I hope I can explain my view well here. It's not as though we have rational parts of our brain and irrational parts: our brains operate as networks in patterns. Emotions are like supercharged circuits prompting action. They link our belief systems and understandings of the world directly to our immediate context. They are very useful when heeded as messengers and when we feed back our results to refine our belief systems. That feedback, along with planning functions, is the useful role of the neocortex.

      Having a stab at your initial question now... ("Is this some kind of social test? Some pack behavior thing of "us against them"? Do you really need to not only hate a person for something they have no control over but to try and gt OTHER people to hate them too? Is it so you can justify your own irrational feelings or what? I want to know why.")

      My perspective is that behaviour is driven by real-time perceived survival needs. It's vestigial in this case (and so often these days), but imagine such a scenario where you guys were the only tribe for miles... then it makes perfect sense. It's a real time need to consolidate social position, structure and resources.

      I came to these views while playing competitive rugby. Yikes, alliances shift like crazy in that pressure cooker environment so it 's easy to observe these sorts of things playing out fairly regularly. This is why good leadership makes people feel safe: it's more efficient to have everyone exerting energy in productive directions.

      Delete
    16. Thank you North. That makes sense to me. I need an outside perspective on things like that because I would do it for the lulz and social maneuver or something a year down the line.seeing it as a leftover tribal imperative does make more sense. The funny thing is in her social situation we are the "Only tribe for miles". I maybe should not have classified her as a total norm either as she is somewhat broken.I will see what I can do to uplift her in that area. I think her and Bff have been in an isolated us against them social position for so long that it seriously colors their interactions without them being aware of it. They have a feedback loop going that could prove poisonous. I will discuss with my roommate as these are his Personal Humans and therefore ultimately his responsibility.

      Delete
    17. My pleasure Puppy Basket. It's interesting to read your question, ponderings and response for several reasons. This conversation has enriched me through a glimpse of your world, a different lens on something like mine, and some new threads of possibility to wonder about.

      All the best with your situation.

      Delete
  16. I need me sum big powerful spankings

    ReplyDelete
  17. This is some sort of social media bullshit story for idiots to share. I have seen multiple variations of it.

    ReplyDelete
  18. But how do you know if someone is a (passive?) sociopath or a (covert) schizoid?

    ReplyDelete
  19. In Vegas.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "But how do you know if someone is a (passive?) sociopath or a (covert) schizoid?" You don't until you have interacted with them for a while. which can be dangerous in both cases. It can also have benefits. You have to decide if you want to risk it. Try being honest and just ask them upfront. Some of us find honesty both amusing and refreshing. Most people do actually. Be up front about your motives and don't take shit from them. (This is good advice in any relationship) Let them know your boundaries and shut them down if they try and test them or overstep. Sociopaths are interested in what they can get from you, they like to be challenged. As long as you have or are something they want you have a measure of control over them.
      http://thoughtcatalog.com/shahida-arabi/2016/06/20-diversion-tactics-highly-manipulative-narcissists-sociopaths-and-psychopaths-use-to-silence-you/6/

      If they start pulling any of this crap get out, go fast, go far. If they are a passive then you can actually top from the bottom so to speak. If you tell us about the person we can probably give you a better idea of what you are dealing with.

      Delete
    2. It is previous anon 7:27.
      We are in a relationship for a couple months. I asked directly, and he's brutally honest indeed. He sees himself as a sociopath-ish, and I don't think I perceive him much that way. He has some traits, especially the affective part. He would barely score ~19 in the PCL-R scale. I am asking that because sometimes he has some "existential crisis", and maybe a "label" could help him guide himself better. I've seen him looking this blog and some others about neuro-diversity, and this is how I found this blog. I've been searching for some personality disorders that maybe he does seem to fit. As you people here seem to be more rational and also know more about these conditions than me, I came to know better and more.
      He doesn't use this 'crap' on me, he is very patient towards me and my "irrationality". He doesn't lie to me that much, he tells the truth to me right away, even if he knows that I will get hurt or bother me. He says that he want to live without as many masks as possible with me and has no problem telling me the truth as leap of faith on trusting me, and that if I tried to use those information, he could (as I read in the link you sent, Puppy Basket, thanks) gaslight other people and turn tables around - and couldn't be hurt by the truths, because he knows that he is those things. He said that he came to me because I was "open minded" and would accept him. After we engaged into a more serious relationship, as he said 'for the first time he felt truly connected to someone (person)', he said it happened - barely - with his dog.
      I'm not really a soft person, and we deal with each other pretty well - we barely fought in 8 months. The fact is that usually he's the one who try to talk to me, as I tend to shut down into my own head when things get bad. I realize I am the most emotional of the couple, but he had three emotional bursts - by jealousy - because he didn't believe 'I could love him and so stay with him'. He seems to be paranoid with this, and even realizes that he has no real facts to distrust me, he gets those feelings and can't control or override them as easily as he does normally. As sometimes it happened of him having an emotional outburst, the way he deals with the world is so unconventional.
      He's a 'lonely wolf' type, he stays on his own and tries not to stay in conversations with people most of the time. But when he talks to them is just tries to manipulate others to get what he want, to get some fun or maintain social 'points' - as you [Puppy Basket] mentioned earlier -, he has no problem lying to people in general. Sometimes he gets some random bored moments and go wild, steal stuff, messing with peoples heads.
      He usually does not care at all about other people, but has a super-protective behavior towards me. He cares and protects me, puts himself in bad situations for me (recently I've been banished from home and even his parents were involved by my narcissistic mother, and he endured all that with me), tries to give me all good things that show up and makes him remember of me.

      Delete
    3. [Final comment - anon 7:27]
      I do think and perceive that he loves me, which I perceive as being a very 'primitive' love, such as keeping me safe, protected and healthy. But rarely perceive - I'm not that good at reading micro-expressions - him having genuine emotions, and when I ask, he answers as not having many. He usually is seeing everything as useful and endure even boring moments as useful moments, but he doesn't seem to get these things as 'meaningful'. He really enjoys and gets real interest in food, sex, my personal well-being and strategies (some gaming, real life messing/guessing/predicting people or computer/table games), any other things he doesn't seem to care much if it ceases to exist. He doesn't seem to care much about anything and, as pops up in our conversations and behavior, he sees the world as economical exchanges and as close of the Homo economicus he can get, he will.
      He usually acts rationally, analyzing every movement and its consequences, being extremely controlled and calculating. For example, it really gets me angry when he just "bow down his head" and do nothing because he just don't care and don't wanna get involved and I want to fight and show that the other person is wrong about me/him/us, and he just not get affected by the insults and everything and I do. He usually just ignores praises and insults, using them only as 'information about how other people are', as he says. (But when I had that problem with leaving home he was the one who faced it all alone and made movements by his own). He says that he's very counscious about himself, controlling himself as much as possible since ~14. He usually speaks about some conscious-state that divers use to get to be aware of every part of his body, and he uses it to know his patterns on his behaviors and reactions and change them if needed. But I've seen him reacting impulsively and most weren't nice as he guided himself to dangerous situations (and also the emotional outburst mentioned earlier).
      As far as we've got, he didn't give me a reason to distrust him. He told me about some desires of him about other people but stayed faithful to me because he wanted us to work, and tries to 'redirect his desires' to me. He is extremely smart and above-the-mean intelligent. He reads people better than anyone I've ever met, he even said things about myself that he knew more accurately than I did. As I don't have those reading skills, I thought maybe someone here could help me understanding him better. I am a rational person, but as not as people here and he seems to be, I tried to exclude my guessing at best and exposed mostly facts.
      He doesn't seem to be "that" sociopathic to me, more Machiavellian (although I couldn't find much about it) with (maybe?) schizoid? Maybe he's just an intelligent controlled guy with Machiavellian traits with shallow affect in general? But I can't say much, as I don't know that much about it.
      I don't seek help to myself, as I have ways of dealing with my emotional issues by myself. He would absolutely hurt me if he went away/betrayed me (not only sexually, in fact I don't even care that much about him having other sexual partners, but he says that not only useful for controlling himself, he feels better spending time with me than chasing others). I wanted to help guide him as he's still helping me about leaving home. Thanks in advance.

      Delete
    4. He appears to be a passive sociopath more than schizoid then. I thought for a moment you were describing my BFF/roommate. We are all over the scale. The best advice I can give you is to not confront him when you get emotional. That tends to annoy us. You can't actually provoke emotions out of us we will shut down when you do. Approach relationship problems with him logically. When he gets jealous ask him who betrayed him in the past? Point out that he is probably projecting this onto you. He could also be projecting his own desires for infidelity even if he would not act on them we all get them and tend to think that the other in relationship will act/think as we do. Sociopaths are not immune to this.

      How to have an argument/discussion with a sociopath when you are an emother in a relationship with one:
      Acknowledge to yourself that you cannot project emotions onto him. It is counter productive to do so. Keep all emotional statements in I messages. ie "when you do this I feel this" " when you do this it makes me think this" then ask what he is feeling/thinking. Be patient don't expect an immediate answer some of us have to work through it and it takes time. Give him some time and while he is thinking try to do breathing to calm your own emotions. It is best for you to NEVER confront him when you are in a high state of emotions, don't do it over the phone or text either. Since you both have problems with social cues this can be disastrous. He has to see you to read you and you have problems reading expressions.

      Find out what his personal code is. Trust me he has one. This will give you a road map to how he will react in most situations. Find out his triggers and if he needs help with them direct him here.

      Helpful hint, do not try to get him to support you in your emotional reaction to others. We Just Can't Do It. Cultivate outside emoter friends and use them to help you deal with that aspect of your emotional life. If you have a bad day at work, with family, etc he WILL help you with the logical and logistical bits of that, however emotional support is not our strong point so if you have a friend who can fill the gap there use them instead. If he tells you he needs space GIVE HIM SPACE. If he is acting hinky ask if needs some alone time and give it to him. Above all be honest and praise/reward him every time he is honest. Sometimes as a socio we don't even realize when we are being dishonest, we are liars and the children of liars so we need special help in that area. We would be happy to hp him with anything any questions he has about anything if you want to direct him to this site.

      Delete
    5. For example, it really gets me angry when he just "bow down his head" and do nothing because he just don't care and don't wanna get involved and I want to fight and show that the other person is wrong about me/him/us, and he just not get affected by the insults and everything and I do.

      This is going to sound cold but you really need to let this bit go. We not only don't care about shit like this we can't without going into full blown attack mode. YOU DON"T WANT THAT. let me explain how our brains work in this situation. You have problem with what people think of you or you/him. We don't give a shit what people think of us. We really don't logically we have no control over it or we could change that situation with some Machiavellian maneuvering. Ask yourself this. Does what another person thinks of you effect your life in any way? No it does not. DOes it reflect badly on you? No, it is their petty shit and reveals poor character on their part. Rise above it. The other option for us is to work some social maneuvering bs and fuck that other persons world up bad. This is a bad idea becasue we are REALLY GOOD at that shit. There will be fallout though and you probably don't really want to see your BF in full on hunt and destroy mode. He appears to want to avoid that and he probably has a very good reason not to indulge. It can be addictive. Let it go.

      When you present us with a problem and you are precious to us we will try to fix the problem for you. This has consequences you might not like. Therefore leave him out of that. Talk with your norm friends about it if you just need to vent. We tend to vent differently from emoters. We just need to regurgitate the stress the stupid people have presented us with during the day. Then we consider it over and move on. Emoters seem to hang on to that shit, want to pull it out and examine it to death and then wallow in it.

      What you are talking about is just one example about how our minds work differently. You must be pretty special to have caught one of us so well. Congratulations! However you need to keep in mind that we neither think nor feel the way you do. Acknowledge the differences and keep an open dialogue about them. The more you tow understand how your minds work differently the better you will be able to come up with solutions on how to interact. Just remember there will be some things you will never be able to see from his point of view and vice versa. For those things you will need an outside support system.

      I hope I answered some of your questions if there is anything else you need help with or have questions about please feel free to ask. Some of the others on the blog are norms with socio mates and they may be more helpful with other aspects of your relationship.

      Delete
    6. "You must be pretty special to have caught one of us so well. Congratulations!"

      Will you elaborate on this?

      Delete
    7. Most of us are users. We don't form long term relationships with emoters. We find normal people boring and illogical. You must have something special. For us to remain we like people who challenge us intellectually and socially. For a long term relationship with a socio to work the other person HAS to get know what is behind the masks and accept it. It might help that you were raised by a Narc and have that experience in common. You sound like you might have a bit of ASPD and that is always a plus socio/aspd relationships seem to work. You are also actively seeking to understand him and that makes you perfect for this site. Many come here for that.

      Delete
    8. Hello, Puppy Basket! anon 7:27 here. Thanks for your detailed response. "You can't actually provoke emotions out of us we will shut down when you do." He haven't shut down (he calls like this too) in the past couple of months, he says he realizes that it generates cycles and doesn't want to keep pushing each other away because of not wanting/being unconfortable feeling some things. He did shutdown when he had to help me with my issues though, as he told me, to keep rational and not let the anger of people making me cry destroy something useful in the future. A funny thing that happened is that he talked to me about the startle reflex and said to me to try and prank him randomly. The only time that I was sucessful at making he feel scared was when I almost fell from the stairs (he walks behind me at stairs). Usually he just doesn't respond and makes the 'blank/wtf' faces and then starts laughing that I tried. "He could also be projecting his own desires for infidelity even if he would not act on them we all get them and tend to think that the other in relationship will act/think as we do." He told me this once, that he could be forgetting my worldview and fulfilling it with his own, but I don't know how to help with that. Have you any advice on that? "There will be fallout though and you probably don't really want to see your BF in full on hunt and destroy mode." He said something like that to me a few times, like "you wouldn't like to see me really angry. I don't want to get really angry". I used to get angrier as he would do nothing, but now he makes more moves than before and I'm satisfied that he does. It shows to me that I can count on him.
      [Continues]

      Delete
    9. [Final comment - anon 7:27]
      One thing about you said on top comments of yours: "Sociopaths are 100% of the time the children of a narc." It got me troubled, because he does have a 'normal' family. Her mother was overprotective, as she wanted a kid and he's the first of her. He lived most of the time with his parents and later with a sister. As I talked to her mother and the things he said, he was very solitary, but enjoyed that. Had friends, but never too close friends. And the ones that were so close that are his parents friends, he says he doesn't care about them so much and usually doesn't keep touch. He said his mother had some tantrums as she was (and is, but acted more impulsively) hot-blooded, but she says that she have never attacked him or his sister. He said he always knew the situation of the family even when they tried to hide, let things calm down and then tell them (his parents believe that the children must know almost everything that goes on the house). His father was *and is* more distant, he works hard and wasn't always there for him. He says his father just doesn't talk about his feelings EVER and even heard his mother complaining about this with me once. Recently - two/three months ago? - I caught my BF giving a "lecturing" his parents about their errors in their relationship (he said that was very common and did that since his ~15, the recent was his father recurrence of cheating on his mother). Their parents don't seem to be abusive, he said he got too much freedom and was always alone as people close to him didn't have this kind of freedom. Nor liars, wrongdoers saying to do the right thing (maybe his father? he works with the government and frequently my BF tells me how his father tries to outsmart the system - what is usually what my BF does). How could him be like that? Even that 'mildly'? I myself have a narcissistic mother, and as he told me some things, maybe my father is also sociopathic (but my father didn't participate much in my life and I excluded him too) and he says that I'm almost as sociopathic as him. "You must have something special." He says that he likes my most-of-the-time rationality, that I'm not emotional most of the time and we can get a conversation without exhausting him too much with "nonsense". And sometimes that is me being "part-time sociopath, part-time empath" is one of the things that makes me special as you say.
      Later I'll ask to him about his personal code. He probably spoke about it sometime, he usually says that he tries to do what is best for the overall, ignoring personal issues at best. Maybe it's that? What I remember that seems to trigger him most are things related to me (attacks, my safety, health, etc.), illogical arguments, fallacies, falling into cognitive biases, as I perceived his reactions to those. He's a very calm person in general.

      Delete
    10. I have heard quite a few sociopaths defend their parents or not recognize until it was pointed out to them how much of what they did was malignant narcissism. There might be another way to raise a sociopath. This has just been what I have have seen. Interesting that he wants you to prank him to test his startle reflex. I tend to punch people who manage to startle me. It is hard to do though.

      The way to deal is just to ask him if he might be projecting whenever he gets jealous. Ask him if he has any logical reason for being jealous. Keep asking him for facts/logical why he is being paranoid or if it could be possessiveness. Explain that he is acting like you are property at that point and that is not to be done.

      Delete
    11. Hello, its anon 7:27.

      His parents don't seem to be that type of narcissists. I have somewhat a close relationship with his mother. She's very emotional and cares very much about her family and her husband family. Her husband mother was in serious situation (she died one week ago) and was my BF mother that stayed with her in the hospital, exhausting herself trying to take care of her mother in law.
      His father is more distant. When I encounter him he's just watching fishing channels or Discovery ID or sleeping. Or ready to go to work again. But as my mother in law says, he's a good father, trying to give his kids everything (material at least) but never interfered much in his offspring.

      It remembered me that he almost punched me twice! He stopped midair when he realized that it was me. I was kinda surprised because of that reaction.

      I spoke to him, showed him the texts I sent and received here. He says that he has explanations, but gets stuck into he being unable to maintain relationships like that because of his inability to express much emotions. I have no problem with this and I try to tell him this, but apparently he just can't accept that I could love him truly as I do. He also kept in mind about his possessiveness, and he told me it makes sense that I'm not his property as he thinks he feel this way about me. He said he's going to work this out.

      You were very helpful, Puppy Basket. Thank you very much!
      We'll probably stick around the blog, it does have interesting posts and conversations.

      See you later!

      Delete
  20. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  21. So I'm just trolling along, I mean strolling along. Why do sociopathic men's cock taste so good as well as the way they kiss you. Can you elaborate on this more?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. High functioning sociopath men and women excel at sex. We are performance junkies, we can read micro expressions and body language that tell us what feels best for our partners. We have sexy voices. We enjoy fulfilling sexual fantasies and most are adaptable so we can morph into the perfect sexual partner. Been told that sex with a sociopath is addicting so there is that too.

      Delete
    2. Get the fuck outta here PuppyBasket with these comments. You're just a confused loser. Stop spreading this sociopath bullshit. Its nothing like you say.

      Delete
    3. What's it like?

      Delete
    4. U mad abc? So funny how upset you are over nothing. You never contribute anything just whine about how no one else is EVER right. You even contradict yourself. You are a pathetic little troll and you are on my ignore list kiddo. Go troll imgur or something.

      Delete
    5. It is as Puppy Basket describes, at least in my experience.

      He is exquisite.

      I sent him this clip [VIDEO: 4:24]Jose Nunez Bilingual before arriving at his place. He slipped so deeply into the character of that clip I had shivers down my spine. It felt as though he were revealing a darker side of himself. While the effect was scintillating... it only lasted 10 minutes before he resumed his sweeter style of seduction.

      It was such a performance, though, that my greedy brain thrills at the possibilities of other fantasies he could play out with me :D

      Delete
  22. Puppy Basket can you do this test and tell me your score.

    http://vistriai.com/psychopathtest/

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I just did it myself. I scored 10.

      Delete
    2. What does 10 mean?

      Delete
    3. 10 means you are as a normal person whit a few quirks.
      I scored 29. Scores above 30 indicate psychopathy. Borderline sociopath lolz. I missed some I would have some years ago because I am trying to be a better person and no longer indulge. I also missed the ones that are about being arrested and prosecuted because I have never been caught. I do find this hilarious. Everyone I know has spent the night in jail except me and I have committed the most and worst crimes.

      Delete
  23. Another one. I scored 8%

    http://www.sociopathtest.net/

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What does 8 mean?

      Delete
    2. 8 is total no sociopath but that test was stupid.

      Delete
    3. Puppy do you and your husband have an open relationship?

      Delete
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