Sunday, July 24, 2016

Ok to hate

This was an interesting interview with the author of " Hillbilly Elegy: A Memoir of a Family and a Culture in Crisis by J.D. Vance, the Yale Law School graduate who grew up in the poverty and chaos of an Appalachian clan."

The interview is mainly about the appeal of Trump to the lower class white demographics.

Interviewer: I’m not a hillbilly, nor do I descend from hillbilly stock, strictly speaking. But I do come from poor rural white people in the South. I have spent most of my life and career living among professional class urbanite, most of them on the East Coast, and the barely-banked contempt they — the professional-class whites, I mean — have for poor white people is visceral, and obvious to me. Yet it is invisible to them. Why is that? And what does it have to do with our politics today? 

J.D. Vance: I know exactly what you mean.  My grandma (Mamaw) recognized this instinctively.  She said that most people were probably prejudiced, but they had to be secretive about it.  “We”–meaning hillbillies–“are the only group of people you don’t have to be ashamed to look down upon.”  During my final year at Yale Law, I took a small class with a professor I really admired (and still do).  I was the only veteran in the class, and when this came up somehow in conversation, a young woman looked at me and said, “I can’t believe you were in the Marines.  You just seem so nice.  I thought that people in the military had to act a certain way.”  It was incredibly insulting, and it was my first real introduction to the idea that this institution that was so important among my neighbors was looked down upon in such a personal way. To this lady, to be in the military meant that you had to be some sort of barbarian.  I bit my tongue, but it’s one of those comments I’ll never forget.  

The “why” is really difficult, but I have a few thoughts.  The first is that humans appear to have some need to look down on someone; there’s just a basic tribalistic impulse in all of us.  And if you’re an elite white professional, working class whites are an easy target: you don’t have to feel guilty for being a racist or a xenophobe.  By looking down on the hillbilly, you can get that high of self-righteousness and superiority without violating any of the moral norms of your own tribe.  So your own prejudice is never revealed for what it is.

I thought it was interesting, the observation that there is some tribalistic influence to look down on others. And it looks like hillbillies are to white liberals as sociopaths are to neurotypicals (and even non neurotypicals love to hate, I guess). But unlike hillbillies, there are plenty of sociopaths in the government and places of power and influence. So there's that I guess. 

43 comments:


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      Delete
  2. Hillbillies don't give a damn if you look down on them. There is something strangely endearing about that but it is also precisely what makes them hillbillies.

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  3. What's up boys and girls. Ive been away in st Tropez on my friends yacht while you've been wasting your life's with pointless internet fights lol

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  4. i'd say sociopaths are to neuro-typicals like racists are to liberals.
    and just like sociopaths, racists can be found in government and places of power and influence. and just like racists you're the best @ opressing others and the loudest if not treated equally.

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  5. Talk about education as some sort of "scientific divider" between the noble and the low is crap. I´ve heard folks with "stratospheric" formal education saying things like they think Berlin is the capital of Belgium! Some people are intelligent, others are not. The latter will not become smarter if they go to a college. Very simple.

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    1. To know stuff and to be intelligent is comparing the incomparable. Somebodys intelligence is not correlating with his knowledge.

      Did you ever made a (serious) IQ test? Ever wondered, why they dont include any questions about common knowledge?

      Intelligence is not bound to your social status or your money or the place you live in. Intelligence is not bound to your education, neither is your education bound to your intelligence. There is no correlation!

      Intelligence means you are able to solve complex and difficult problems and to evaluate a processs, person or action in different ways. Education doesnt help you with this, thats true.

      So yes, you are right and the society is wrong. But be sure to not confuse those words anymore :P

      Delete
    2. But most people don´t think folks that think a "rectum" is some sort of garden tool is very bright, even if they have scored high on abstract IQ-tests, do they?? Intelligence sure can mean being able to understand a difficult text, and such things are not included in the IQ-tests I´ve seen, intelligence sure can mean being able to understand others on a deep psychological level, and such things have not been included in the IQ-tests I´ve seen etc..

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    3. Its true, people who dont know thinks which other consider as beeing common knowledge make themself look dumb. But just because many people think something that doesnt mean, that this has anything to with the truth or even rational stuff.

      We are humans. That means we are irrational. Most of the time we are emotional. We dont judge adequate.

      Intelligence is the ability to do things, to understand things, but NOT to know things. Actually it doesnt need a lot of intelligence at all to just memorize the "facts" which are considered as beeing common knowledge.

      If you look up the wiki article for the multiple intelligence theory you will find a bunch of other topics which are not included in any IQ test. Thats because IQ tests are not infallible. They do not cover every form of intelligence at all, most of the time they only cover a very very very small part. And probably they dont even cover every aspect of the part of intelligence they are supposed to judge about.

      Science yet doesnt know much about intelligence. Actually, there isnt even an accepted definition yet.
      But we do know already, that intelligence is not your ability to be a harddrive.

      Delete
    4. To be able to understand things "harddrive knowledge" is of great importance: its almost impossible to separate it from "intelligence", intelligent decisions are based on facts & knowledge.

      Delete
  6. do normal people get a gut feeling like something is off when they talk to a psychopath? i think what makes a psychopath creepy is they're too outwardly normal and put together and that unsettles people. they don't have 'bad days' like normal people their always cool and collected and never reveal their hand. the voice of reason the boy next door.

    humans want to see you bleed and have vulnerabilities so that they can relate. so naturally when people meet someone they can't relate to in any way they are infuriated and unsettled.

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    1. Its not as easy as you are saying in the second paragraph.

      People want you to be vulnerable to be able to compare themselves with you. But they dont want to see you bleed... why should they? Have you done something to them?

      Okay, some want to see you bleed even if you havent done something. But usually everybody wants to live in the love, piece and harmony world, that those crazy church guys are whishing ;)

      Just cuz you are on a homepage for merciless people that doesnt mean, that the world is merciless aswell.

      Last thing: People are emotional. They get suspicious about the craziest shit you ever heard, so dont expect them to judge any behaviour they see in front of them in an adequate way. Some people do, of course, but most humans to are irrational, even if its only to a small degree.

      Delete
    2. Funny I find I'm the total opposite 535

      I ain't no sociopath and I have learnt to prune myself to ..

      " not to bleed or be vulnerable."

      I believe a highly emotional human will use that against you far more than a rational/objective sociopath would in a weak moment against you. A sociopath will look at things objectively & calmly - where the empath is trying hard to prove their own point. Empaths can switch on people.

      So they feel things, so what I think. Okay, wait.....I guess in proper content it's good to feel things, it's important ....but in other situations, nah... It can be kinda shit. Depending on what emotion controls them.

      Are they nice. Who's actually the nicer one in the long scheme of things? In the heat of things? Who stays consistent? Who's actually there day after day?

      An empath can eventually ditch you because of their emotions.
      A sociopath respects your decisions either way. Whatever you choose. At least my experience. I can't speak on behalf of others.

      If I wanted to be raw & vulnerable - give me a sociopathic trait individual to blah my shit too, lol. I've come across some who have traits in it and come to respect you more than many empathetics would. An empath is emotional and eventually wanna stick their fingers in the muck about you --just at the right time. Drama.

      I'm not saying sociopathic trait individuals are not capable of it, but there's a different drum to it. Just a different beat. They probably wouldn't waste there time dragging your name in the mud. The energy wouldn't be worth it.

      Delete
  7. How old are people on this blog. Please tell me there's peers of my own kind. I'm forty two next month. Is this a teenager blog?

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    1. I'm 26, and I have been reading this blog for a long time, I gave up on it because of the utter disrespect and stupidity of it's author and more than half of commenters.
      I found this blog through the TvTropes website, which has a page listing all the fictional ASPD characters that that site contributors could have find. It lists this blog in it's "non-fictional" section, which they call "real life" which in my opinion is extremely stupid because it's still the Internet, even if non-fiction.
      The author of this blog also has a book, which, if you like this blog, you will also like that book, if not, you'll hate them both.
      Have a nice day, and don't follow any advices.

      Delete
  8. The reason looking down on hillbillies "does not violate the social norms" is because the norm is to develop ourselves in society and most people don't "perceive" hillbillies as developed. We are hardwired with the desire to advance ourselves and we don't want to "fall" to a place that we perceive to be on a "lower" level in the overall system. Our automatic repulsion is a natural process and comes through our ego (the "tribalistic influence"). That repulsion provides the fuel we need to push us forward instead of backwards. Even though we sometimes feel our ego's influence in this way, it is critical to see the whole system of development and respect and accept everyone's place in it. In other words, to not devalue others.
    An empowered person should not have the need to express this "comparison of their level" outwardly, rather, the idea is to keep it as an internal scrutiny, or self-realization. When people try to express themselves as superior in an outward way, like some in government (and elsewhere) who have the need to constantly validate themselves, they are actually displaying their internal emptiness, lack of maturity and real power.

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    1. Exactly. I made a comment in a previous thread that I "imagined" the sociopath I knew as a hillbilly. I never told them that. I didn't understand why they were so closed minded. I felt bad for looking down on their ignorance. But they weren't just ignorant. They feared anyone knowing something they didn't. I just wanted to share things with them . They weren't interested in what I or anyone else knew.

      Delete
  9. I think Trump is a full-blown psychopath. His mastary of body language and facial expressions and as well as his ability to relate to ordinary poor people brought me this conclution. Do u guys agree with me?

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  10. But psychopaths rather talk to a hillbilly than the richest man in town, if that hillbilly interests them more? Isn´t that supposed to be one of the "lovely features" of psychopathy..?

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    1. What I was trying to say above was that "we are hardwired with the desire to advance ourselves toward our full human potential...etc." and our repulsion to lower levels is a natural process. It is necessary because it pushes us forward toward our personal potential.

      I don't think Trump is any more of a psychopath than others who rely on things and people outside of themselves to feel powerful. He's just operating in the only way he knows how. The problem is more that he is sleeping, unconscious and unaware.

      M.

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    2. Psychopaths often are master readers of other people. That´s why they often have great contempt for daft people who have inherited wealth or royalty that does not seem to be able to change a lightbulb etc. I think socios despise narcissists too, seen as vain, pompous shitbirds. To be respected by a sociopath I think a person has "to be" something, not just appear to be somebody..

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    3. M. - I have felt a lot of repulsion towards the sociopath I knew. I think your correct in that it is part of a process of waking up to a higher level of consciousness. Observing sociopaths and being aware of that repulsion helped to wake something up within me. i also said in a previous thread that I believe sociopaths play a big part in raising the levels of consciousness of others. Their lack of humanity seems to bring out both the best and worst in others.

      Delete
    4. Agreed. And I would add that while it seems as though "opposites" attract, in reality "like attracts like." Some may not agree, which is fine, but I believe there's a spectrum that includes empaths on one end and sociopaths on the other. The same quality, the "default" form of expression, but on opposite (extreme) ends. Very Passive/Empath <> Very Aggressive/Sociopath. We are magnets made for each other. :)

      What I have learned, through very difficult experiences on the empath end, is that sociopaths are not likely to change. People don't change unless they are uncomfortable and sociopaths are pretty comfortable the way they are. So, I see it as the task of the empath to change... to integrate our "inner sociopath"... but not go to extremes. I think we repress desires and refuse to acknowledge we also have the same "potential" (key word, the potential) in us to behave the same way. We just find it very distasteful and wrong, obviously, and would rather decide they shouldn't exist than to do the inner work it takes to adopt any assertiveness ourselves, since it can almost be painful to assert ourselves, sadly. We don't have to express ourselves outwardly in a forceful way but most of us could certainly use a dose of tougher skin - to get to a middle ground. We could learn something from sociopaths, while not losing our empathy. And to take it a step further, in my opinion, that is exactly why we draw them into our lives. To become aware of where we need to change. I am sure this is probably hard for most to accept. I understand that, but I can say that after trying the acceptance route I am much happier than I used to be now that I have embraced my "evil side" (assertiveness can feel evil to us) in the middle of the spectrum. In fact, it's actually liberating since I am not as afraid, in general! I understand sociopaths much better now, and even appreciate them (from afar). I still don't want to be around them but I understand them better now, and that helps both of us.

      The world is full of people who refuse to accept qualities they have within. It can be painful work. Yet, somehow, those qualities "miraculously" manifest outside of us over and over, in patterns, until we "get it", as though it is by design. We always seem to have an "opponent" to battle with on the opposite end of whatever spectrum we're in. In the end, we're only fighting with ourselves.

      Once an empath truly changes internally they nullify the extreme, as well as their "opponent."

      M.

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    5. Seeing the extreme in the sociopath reflected the extreme of myself. It was magnetic. Darkness and light. I had never thought about what I was. I had to see it reflected back and that shattered all illusions.

      Delete
    6. And M.- I think your right about the repression. In both socio and nons. My "goodness" for lack of a better word naturally represses many things in me. Repression can be so damaging . And it's extremely hard to get past the good and bad nature that some of us tend to identify with.

      Delete
    7. What M said, yes!! Anonymous 451 , 634 , yes. Good feedback.

      Delete
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