Monday, July 3, 2017

Happily dating a sociopath

A reader shares how (through fits and starts) she has found success in maintaining a romantic relationship with a sociopath.

After some earlier history, I’ve now been dating A. for 13 months. I have grown a lot in that time and honestly we are now at a point where the level of intimacy is quite enough for me. There is a level of trust between us that I wouldn’t have anticipated; in fact that exceeds anything I have known. He is responsive to me.

I wanted to share some of the features of the dynamic that I believe have been helpful.

Firstly, I learned from interacting on Sociopath World that sociopaths want to be treated fairly, just as anyone does. They are social organisms and must solve all the same problems any social organism faces. From this point, I developed an hypothesis that control-seeking behaviours such as manipulation are a strategy for creating a safe and predictable environment.There were lots of data points I used when coming to this hypothesis, not least of which that it’s a common strategy amongst primates!
  
Referring to our previous history, I'd always had a gut-feeling that A. hadn’t intended to hurt me. He had said as much. He also had ample opportunity to truly injure me (for example, by ruining my reputation at work) and he had refrained. I think the truth of this sat in my mind for a long time, burbling around with all sorts of dissonant conceptions and questions. Coupled with the life-changing positive effects our earlier interactions catalysed, I was driven to understand who this creature was. In this process, I reimagined my conception of the human condition and human sociality in general (that's another story.)

I eventually created two operating hypotheses:

He needs to feel safe and elusivity is his preferred strategy. 

This view diverges from standard interpretations that sociopaths / psychopaths seek power / control for it’s own sake. I believe that idea to be flawed as a blanket rule as it didn’t fit my observations andbecause there is too much overhead for that to be an end in itself. Control / power seeking is a means to an end. What problem does it solve? It aims to create predictability. 

He wants exit routes, freedom from being pinned down. He prefers to meet on his terms, when it suits him, where he can manage the interaction. In other words, he wants the interaction to be predictable for him and less predictable for me. I make sure to call him on his behaviour if he is unfair in attempting to achieve this aim.

2. Neither of us intends to hurt the other: we simply have different strategies for managing risk.
He appears to accept this view.

I’ve deemed it worthwhile to invest in the relationship. This means interpreting him generously, in alignment with both operating hypotheses. I can see he doesn’t ever want to overcommit himself or be in a place he can’t back out of. When he says I have a beautiful bum, it actually means he rather likes me. It’s difficult for him to say that, but I can recognise his intention.  When I said I was glad I’d met him, he said “yes, you’re right.” It meant he was also glad. He speaks by code and metaphor. Even this is extremely direct in my experience of him and I want to honour that. I know he can’t be vulnerable.

Investing also means making an effort to offer him safety, to predict and provide for his needs. This takes all sorts of bravery and intuition, but he rewards my efforts and reciprocates. He listens and responds - perhaps not to the degree I have requested, but again, I can see he is doing what he can.
Loving him thus becomes a very practical matter of respecting each other’s needs, allowing each other space to develop our own safety and to maintain our independence. I am blown away that he responds to me. The process helps me both learn about my own needs and actually be empathetic toward him. I must also be bold in asking for what I need.

This is not to say it’s easy. He is still cold and aloof. He’s very cold and this drives all my fears to the surface. They rise to choke me; which provides an opportunity for me to address them.
Additionally, it’s incumbent on me to take the risks entailed in relationship growth.

It’s my experience, however, that the risks are worthwhile. He makes efforts and that is beautiful to me. It’s healing elixir. That he isn’t too perturbed when I panic teaches me that there is space for me and I probably don’t need to panic. It gives me the opportunity to realise I am an adult, no longer the comfortless child I was. I am learning to see his efforts and recognise them. This means I am finally letting someone in. 

I think when he feels safe, he’s happy to let me feel safe too. He cares. I read the other day that when a sociopath is controlling you, he might love you. I think I am experiencing his love, although I don’t feel controlled. The connection is safety: I think a sociopath can love when he or she feels safe. 

Intent counts hugely.

This reminds me a little bit about what one of my friend says about me -- that I don't always do a great job at being a friend, but she can tell that I am trying and that is what matters most to her.

184 comments:

  1. Great post. I agree strongly with the main points.

    Once in a relationship we tend to work hard to stay in them. Love may be difficult to identify, but trust and a sense of security with a familiar partner is invaluable.

    It is also difficult to train a new partner who wants to assist. It is useful to have someone to help you appear normal, not have well meaning acquaintences try to set you up, explain why that person is crying, why that person is staring at me like I grew a second head (usually something I said), or to see who is knocking at the door.

    I have been married for over 20 years, and while not necessarily a TV drama loving relationship, it is mutually beneficial. It is truly an arrangement of opposites as she is on the opposite end if the emotional spectrum and together we kind of cancel out as a pair. We learn from each other, and form a more social facade together, than apart.

    I also strongly believe in the comments about the power seeking behavior. It is there always, but a lot (probably most) prefer to work behind the scenes, quietly manipulating our environment to gain the control we need, without having others bust into our paradise. I try to avoid direct confrontation unless I control the situation so I to have escape routes planned with back up contingencies.

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    1. No offence, Manic, but you sound like an average every day cunt in a regular, boring, stable relationship who's invented a dramatic fantasy in his head to spice up his otherwise mundane existence.

      Delete
    2. Traffic, that is what sociopathy is.

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    3. I'm with Traffic. Yet another long winded self indulgent load of shit. Take someone else's story, and make it all about you, just much less interesting.

      Anonymous, you make a ridiculous point.

      It's great that the OP (or North as we affectionately call her) has found what works for her and the fur covered manbeast that is her very own version of A...congratulate her, take the piss out of her, but maybe realise it's not about you.
      Unlike this, this is all about you.
      Mostly.
      This bit isn't...

      Hey Vegas ;)

      Delete
    4. @Swop

      Why do you talk to yourself, that's kinda sad.

      Delete
  2. @manicgecko You've been able to have a successful relationship for 20 years? I don't know if I'm jealous or terrified. If it's working for your as a tool to function though good on you.

    As for the OP it reminds me of all the people that have tried to date or be friends with me and told themselves they had an understanding of me. Only one ever did, and he spends most of his time on another state far away.

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    1. as I stated we have trained each other and neither want to give up the benefits. Don't look for any made for TV movies, it isn't always pretty, and if people see us in private they would see more of a business arrangement than anything else. But it is safe, it is secure, and for me at least it is a controlled normal. On the plus side, to all casual observers we are a normal, "no need to get the church group involved" couple

      My biggest problem and the source of our most intense moments is my inability to anticipate and reciprocate her emotions. I try. She knows I try. I fail, often. I have to force myself to try to understand. She has to try to suppress her emotions to explain to my logic.

      I won't lie, there have been months where we didn't talk to each other because of a poor choice of words on my part

      But all in all there is a sense of comfort in knowing there is someone who understands you more than most, who is willing to explain the unrational, check me in public when I cross a line, and teach me how it looks to love someone. I would like to think I help her with her social issues as well.

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    2. "My biggest problem and the source of our most intense moments is my inability to anticipate and reciprocate her emotions. I try. She knows I try. I fail, often. "

      This can be very hard for me too. I'm lucky though, because somehow I feel like **-*'s physical language is a very god communicator of his intent and I rely on that more than on words. I'm not so good at expressing emotions even though I feel them. So that works.

      "I have to force myself to try to understand."
      I think that effort is significant. Trying, or even being patient while she experiences her emotions, is a a valuable thing. When she has calmed, it's probably a lot easier for her to explain.

      He also prefers to steer clear of conflict unless he can control it and have escape avenues. He will usually try to steer well clear of me if I'm emotional. Although we did manage to navigate an emotional situation the other week. I was very angry and even threw my keys. He stood there calmly washing his wine decanter. When things were calm, he advised me the perils of violence and suggested I walk when angry. I later asked him to forgive me a grudge he had been holding and he has.

      Appreciating the good things he does is very important. When he buys me tea or things for breakfast or cooks me a nice meal. It's really teaching me to look for the good things in life and not focus on the negatives.

      20 years is a great effort under any circumstances. Glad it's working out for you.

      Delete
  3. Ha! Told you A was a fucking man!
    Boo yah! 1-0 my hairy friend

    Hey Vegas ;)

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    1. Swop, the opportunism of your comment had me laughing out loud. Nice work, man.

      Haven't seen A for ages.

      Delete
    2. Hey North.

      Hi Swop. It's been awhile.

      Tell me all about your adventures in face-flogging. :D




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    3. It has indeed.

      Well, this one time, at face-flogging camp...

      Nah I cannot lie, it's just not something I can acclimatise to. I can see how you'd get all face floggy with a thick suede or fabric flogger, but mine is thin evil bastard leather thongs, and my Mrs is pretty (easy with those green eyes now you monster you), so I don't want her in ribbons.
      Much.

      How's the world of non-sociopathic acceptance and being 'nice' treating you old boy?

      Hey Veg...ah fuck it, Vegas is gone let's face it

      Delete
  4. I have sociopathic tendencies and also dating a sociopath and it was really tough in the beginning. However, when I realized he knew and he opened up to me about who he was and wanted someone he could confide in that was like him was an enlightening moment for us both. When I realized he didn't feel intimidated by me but loved the fact that we are almost identical in terms of thinking and just everything in general it made him open up. He even confided in me about how he used to think he just didn't have a personality and told me how he would gaslight women, etc. He didn't use those terms but we both engage in the exact same behaviors so I knew already what he was referring to. I think we are good for each other because we keep one another accountable. IDK if he is seeing other women and still engaging in behaviors but honestly, if he was I wouldn't even care. We share a bond that I have never ever in my life shared and wouldn't give it up for the world.

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    1. "We share a bond that I have never ever in my life shared and wouldn't give it up for the world"

      Although I'm very different, I've never had the intimacy I have with **-* either. I think working through our different perspectives is intimacy, and that reflects physically. I would even say that intimacy is helping me grow; it stretches me to be more trusting and accepting of myself and more generous and open in my approach to others.

      People have asked me whether it's possible for psychopaths/sociopaths to form attachments. What do you think about this question? I think it is possible to have intimacy per my description or a bond as you say.

      Delete
    2. I am attached to what I own for as long as I own it. That is my attachment.

      I can lose ownership in many ways: My own fault, loss of interest, theft, the fault of others, escape, indifference, too broken, not broken enough, boredom, stop being useful, etc.

      I do not bond, at least not long term. Things I own and things I find useful, these are the things I am attached with.

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    3. I have had many people in my life claim we had a bond. None of that has been true. I have a single person that has never lost their use since I met him. I visit him, I use him, he uses me. When that utility is gone we will drift apart. Be it next week or 5 years. We go months and years without seeing each other. He handles my book, and several accounts.

      Most importantly he has no illusions of bonds or commitment, and neither do I.

      Delete
    4. Boooooring, Alci. So boring. Yet another average everyday cunt recontextualizing the bland and insignificant details of their miserable daily lives and interpersonal interactions to fit the definition of psychopathy . "I own my friends mwuhahahahaha." . "My every action is a premeditated uber advanced 3D chess manipulation tactic with multiple contingency plans wahaha!". "I burned ants with a magnifiying glass when I was a kid bwahahaHAHAAY!!". Get off the Internet and re-engage with reality ya fucking fantastical weirdo.

      Delete
    5. North I think we can form attachments however, unlike most people I have always been able to just walk away from people whenever I'm not getting something from them with no regard. If me and him stopped having our connection I could easily just walk away and feel nothing. Same with someone I have been with for twelve years. I can just walk away and never honestly care. I think I have emotions but they are very shallow compared to others. With J it's different because I've never been in an intimate relationship with someone like me before.

      Delete
    6. Hi Bella Donna,

      Thanks for sharing that. I appreciate your perspective. Intimacy is so new to me personally, it's useful for me to get a glimpse into your experience.

      Delete
    7. Hi AA

      "I am attached to what I own for as long as I own it. That is my attachment.

      I can lose ownership in many ways: My own fault, loss of interest, theft, the fault of others, escape, indifference, too broken, not broken enough, boredom, stop being useful, etc. "

      Thanks for sharing. You mentioned earlier that people thought they understood you but didn't really. Did something acute happen to surprise them, do you think? What was their key error?

      Thanks

      Delete
    8. Anytime North like you, I am here for the same reasons to learn about others like me and share our experiences...

      Delete
    9. Sometimes it's a surprise, but usually it all just slowly builds until they realize I'll never be what they want, and their own self deceptions can't hold on anymore.

      Their mistake is easy, when I said I couldn't be what they wanted they should have listened. They should have seen v what was right Infront of them.

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    10. "Their mistake is easy, when I said I couldn't be what they wanted they should have listened. They should have seen v what was right Infront of them."

      Okay, that makes sense to me. **-* has been clear about what he wants and can offer. There's sometimes a tide in me that pulls for more, but there's also a thread in me that says if I want to hold him, I have to accept him for what he is (it's a quote from a movie watched as a teenager which stuck in my mind for some reason, as if I knew it would come in handy some day.)

      When I do let go and stop forcing, there's actually more freedom for both of us. It makes space for us to both relax and just be. And that turns out to be the foundation for the intimacy I've been talking about.

      But I learnt that the hard way, lol! It's all so different to what one expects, but different doesn't equate to bad.

      Thanks.

      Delete
  5. Why do people post about their personal lives on here of all places.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. because they're attention-seeking nobodies and desperate to get some anywhere they can

      Delete
    2. It's the cornerstone of human culture (in the anthropological sense) to share knowledge and personal relationships are a big part of our lives. It's normal to talk about them. Since I'm in a comparatively rare situation, sharing anonymously online is an effective way to learn.

      I guess it may be seen as exposing vulnerability but in my experience, the learning outweighs the risk.

      I also wrote to say thanks to the people here who have helped me. There's a bunch of things I'd absolutely never have guessed at myself e.g. Swop pointing out **-* was acting strangely because he was jealous. Stuff like that helped me understand not only the incident but also some of the mechanics.

      Delete
  6. Same reason why you losers can't help but reply lmfao this whole post is about someone's personal life you dumb asses.

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  7. Yeah shut the fuck up Anonymous. The girl with her tits out in her avatar pic is clearly no attention seeker. Perish the thought.

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    1. Lol never said I didn't like attention but it definitely wouldn't be on this website. That's just a very simple come back lolol. Try harder

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    2. That wasn't a comeback you obnoxious emo turd. It was the first time I've adressed you. Pay attention lol omg lmfao. what you just wrote was a comeback and it didn't make much sense because why would you have your set on display if you didn't want people on this site to look at it?

      Delete
  8. Your lack of intelligence is annoying as well as your immaturity lol. Do you think I give a fuck about what you think of my profile pic or anything else that you vomit out of your mouth and call words? You don't deserve any more conversation from me and quite frankly my brain cells are dying from this.

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    1. You're right, I don't deserve any more conversation from you. Matter of fact, nobody does. Not even Hitler or that Canadian guy who killed all those whore's and fed them to his pigs. Having to sit and listen to you prattle on about your 'feelings' and the dynamics of your pathetic relationship with you retarded weirdo boyfriend is truely a fate I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. But because I'm such a nice guy, I'm willing to indulge you...

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    2. You "cared" enough to read it and keep reading my replies though lmfao

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    3. Of course I care I'm a nice guy remember

      Delete
  9. Traffic, no offense taken. As my goal is to appear uninteresting, boring, and someone others look by without noticing. Kind of like you.
    I don't want attention by small willed people like you who can only generate pity by insults. I don't need the attention like you do, so call me boring and I succeeded in the facade

    I visit sites to learn about this label applied to me, and gain some hints where others succeed. What is your reason? A desire to feel morally superior to complete strangers because you can insult without consequence? I think the word for that is pathetic and any rant you apply will prove my point to those that matter, but go ahead anyway many of us that visit sites like this actually enjoy your meltdowns. We spend a lot of our lives manipulating people like you solely for entertainment, give me a good show.

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    1. If the whole boring cunt thing were a carefully cultivated facade meant to disguise your true dark and edgy nature, why are you openly claiming to be sociopath? Doesn't seem like a smart play to me... It's not a facade. You are a boring cunt. You wrote a blog for years that I'm guessing no one ever commented on ever. You convince yourself that your wife and friends are your pets and that you're a totally emotionless and logical being who manipulates every scenario, when in reality you're a slightly strange little man living his life in his head while everyone around you goes about their business paying no mind to your delusions. You visit this site and sites likes this to play out the fantasy you're too afraid to live out and to gain affirmation from all the other misfits who spout the same nonsense you do.

      Delete
    2. Manicgecko it's always good to read and learn.

      Bella Donna I personally love attention. Too often we need to slide under the radar.

      Traffic, I imagined James bond villian laughs when you attributed odd And ridiculous statements to me. It was cute, thanks for being cute.

      Delete
    3. @manicgecko truth lol. He comes across as an emotionally unstable guy who obviously dated someone who mind fucked him lol. Poke poke poke traffic lololol he fell right into it

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    4. @Alci yes sometimes we do but I always allow time in my life for attention I'm the proper setting lol.

      Delete
    5. Bella, give it up girl, now you've taken the tits off screen, you've no appeal left at all.
      You're flaunting yourself as an über sociopath or some shit on here, talking about "us" and "we", yet, you ain't got it woman. The whole, haha, fell into my trap shit is pitiful babes, go away to some site where you can get your desired attention, wap your assets out to get the fellas talking, then try and cut them down with your seriously limited intellect and even more retarded wit.
      Traffic annihilated you, and in fairness, he's a tool.

      Anonymous...I like talking to myself on here, not that I do it much, but there are a lot of insipid anonymous twats frequenting here, and their (your) conversation tends to be stale and abusive. Not that I have any issue with abusive, I just think it can be done with a touch of class...cunt...you see?

      North...I aim to please

      Hey Vegas ;)

      Delete
    6. Bella the bore
      Went out with a snore
      She brandished her tits
      But amounted to shit
      When her brain was unable to score.

      Delete
    7. How cute you're writing poetry lolol

      Delete
    8. There once was a slag called Bella,
      Who couldn't keep someone else's fella,
      Entertained with her tits, let alone with her wits,
      But in fairness her comebacks are stella

      Delete
    9. Hahahaha I needed that laugh....cute

      Delete
    10. Reading this is a bloke called A,
      Who hangs off every word that I say,
      He'll deny to the end, that he's male my friend,
      But the truth is he's hairy and gay

      He took apart Ukan and Kat,
      There's no question he's brilliant at that,
      But he falls on his face, when he enters my race,
      Because let's face it he's unfit and fat.



      Fuck off Bella, hear that? That autistic screeching? Go try spending some attention on your kid instead of trying to get it from the people here who laugh at you and your stretch mark covering chest

      Hey Vegas ;)

      Vegas? Vegas?! Ffs where the fuck is Vegas.

      Say Nevada BellEnd, go on.

      Delete
    11. It took you this long to come up with that? Stop stalking my conversations for information to use against me lolol. On the contrary, I find it cute you believe and hang in to every word I write as truth ;)

      Delete
    12. On (*on) the contrary to what?
      Ah BellEnd, even now you're basking in this attention aren't you.
      I don't need much to use against you, uh, lolol? What is a lolol by the way? Is it the noise your oversized tongue makes in your mouth?
      Lolol.
      Sounds phlegmy.
      Do you believe anyone who takes the time to read through your delusions (someone's been in my house oh my! He loves me, he loves me not, I don't need him, he needs me, they all need me they all want me all the time, me so pretty, inspirational meme, inspirational meme, inspirational meme, suck up to Alcopops), is stalking you? Your blog is unintentionally hilarious, I particularly liked the post where you promised to keep sharing your imaginary experiences with all the lovely boys and girls on there...you had one follower bahahahaha, it's not exactly what you call stalking BellEnd, just comedy hunting.

      Took all that time for what?
      You're kid probably ain't autistic, just withdrawn into himself because all he sees of his "mother" is a bikini clad duck faced giggle fuck pouting into her camera and laughing at the 'stalkers' commenting on her tits.
      I almost wish the poor little fucker was autistic so at least he could distract himself from the non stop look-at-me mommy show with a rolling pin and tub of butter
      #AcornDoesntFallFarFromTheTree

      Hey Ve...ah fuck off

      Delete
    13. Aaah Swop, Susan, Traffic, whatever name you're using today you really like hearing yourself talk don't you lol. My feelings might be hurt if I hadn't been more entertained than anything by your failed attempts to insult lololol...However, you on the other hand just another wanker with mommy issues and low self esteem. Hey Seop how's your "sub" doing? Or should I say your alter ego lmfao...I'm surprised "she" hasn't shown up yet....wait for it.....

      Delete
    14. Susan? Traffic? Alter ego?? I'm afraid I'm more than confident in myself than to need alter egos sugar tits, I only happened to stop by your drivel because Traffics decimation of your shit made me smile.
      And the good STBSW, is quite real treacle, I'm smiling thinking about her (spew).
      Mommy issues...BellEnd, I've already picked you up for your daddy issues, hell, you even started getting wet when I shouted at you, I was surprised you didn't ask for my belt. My mother is old and ugly and wrinkly, can't say that does much for me, but if it helps you to think of me tugging off over her, knock yourself out kiddo.
      Do you hear screeching?
      Just ignore it Bell, there's attention here for you which is more important

      Hey Veg...Hi North!

      Delete
  10. Alci. My point is that your neurotic ponderings over your lack of bonds with others are fucking tiresome and probably bear no relation to ASPD. I was just browsing over some of the garbage on your page and I must say you come a across like bloated narcissistic psuedo intellectual twat with a pretty serious messiah complex. You talk about sociopaths like they're some kind of master race who will switch the status quo and claim victory over regular folk(or "flies" as you refer to them haha) with tha aid of your glorious leadership. Honestly you are so delusional it's hilarious hahaha. Sociopaths aren't an oppressed group living in the shadows fearing the day they get figured out and carted off by the norms. They're regular people who just happen to be complete cunts. They have their own seperate thoughts, feelings and agendas and they don't sit around self analysing all the time because they're out getting on with their lives, often doing completly outrageous shit without giving one single fuck obout slipping under the radar in the process. The fact you've coveted the sociopath label and created this divide only goes to illustrate your inate feelings of alienation( hence the lack of bonding) and desire to feel superior to others(the big bad sociopath. The wolf among sheep). Your book is an obscure peice of shit with like one review on amazon that completly takes the piss out of you. Nobody cares what you have to say. Seriously cut this shit out and re-engage with reality my freind before its to late.

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  11. Its interesting that she describes her love life like a scientist researching primates. IMO it's the only way to justify wasting 13 months with a sociopath.

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    1. Sure. My very first instinct was fascination, an itch to examine and prod and observe. It's the mystery I've been seeking all my life.

      I have, however, another richness from my time with him, told only in my personal story. The people close to me see it; it don't need share it here.

      Delete
    2. North, I understand the richness, I think. It is knowing yourself. It is the confidence.

      And also the discovery of alieness. The joy of seeing the world from a different angle.

      It is not alien to me anymore. But I do remember it. And appreciate it so much.

      Delete
    3. Hi OldAndWise,

      Yes, that sums it up.

      What do you mean by alien no longer? How goes things with you?

      Delete
  12. North. Have you ever considered visiting a site that doesn't promote sociopathy as a virtue to gain a less bias view on your relationship?

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    1. I put more stock in effectiveness than virtue. I do what works for me in my life and at the moment, he does.

      Did you have some counterpoints or is this just a test?

      Delete
    2. To be clear on where I'm coming from, I think it's preposterous to say people are just evil, or just rotten in this day and age.

      There are no random actions; there are always precursors, reasons. Behaviour is always communication.

      Questioning the why behind the patterns is a valid and useful exercise.

      Delete
    3. A test? Don't be so paranoid lol. All I'm saying is that the perspective you gain from talking to the fruitcakes in this place is more often going to lean towards the warped than objective.

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    4. Yeah sorry about that. I was tired and grumpy and actually turned out to be very sick when I wrote that.

      Delete
  13. Wait 'til he drugs you and gives you away to his friends and family......

    Then you'll see who he really is and you'll learn a whole lot about sociopathy.

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    1. I can assure you I am not naive as to what this man is capable of. I, however, didn't get stuck in the "evil / cunt" shortcut of an explanation, which does no one any good.

      Delete
    2. While you think you're "learning about him" he's definitely learning all about you so he knows how to best manipulate you later. You will see.

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    3. Fruit cakes is putting it politely...good call with the summation.

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  14. By the way, North, I never said people don't have their reasons for being the way they are(although genetics are thought to play a role in determining wether someone becomes a sociopaths as well as environmental factors). When I said sociopaths are regular people who just happen to be cunts, what I meant is that the try hards on this site have a tendancy to paint sociopaths as some kind of infallibly logical ubermensch subspecies and this portrayal is inaccurate. There's also a tendancy for certain people on here(including M.E. the christian mormon sociopath herself) to portray Sociopaths as some kind of misunderstood persecuted minority capable of living by a code and behaving ethically. This is also inaccurate. Society's fear and hatred for sociopaths seems pretty rational to me considering every sociopath out there is consistantly using, abusing and stomping the rest of humanity into the dirt like weeds and it's in their very nature to do so... If this guy you're fucking really is a sociopath, gaining deeper insight into his personality is not a useful exercise if your goal is to modify his behaviour. You can't alter someone's nature and sociopaths don't really undergo character growth like most people, they just keep on being sociopaths. If your goal is something other than modifying his behaviour, that means you're content being in a relationship with someone who by definition will abuse and mistreat you...

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    1. Thanks Traffic.

      I actually agree with everything you're saying. I think sociopaths have their own logic; it has fewer emotional parameters and it gives them a different view of the world. It's often a very interesting view, but I would say it's different rather than better. For everyone else the emotional content is a key ingredient; there isn't actually a clear disjunct between feeling and reason; cognition flows between them. I often wonder if reason is verbalisation or symbol-making.

      Regarding his behaviour, it's trickier for me to explain. There's something about him that woke me up inside, showed me there was space for me. My dad is a narc, so was my ex-husband (who was pretty abusive.) **-* has a very gentle character in comparison, with some very sharp edges. The sociopathic stuff he does seems more like self-protection to me; mostly he wants to keep his position hidden and escape routes intact. He's not aggressive but he can be manipulative by disclosing information selectively. There have been three occasions where he has been off-the-scale callous to me. One was in a fight, one was precipitated by my own callousness, the other was the result of misunderstanding, both of us feeling wounded without intent on the other's part.

      I've grown a lot personally in relationship with him. I have to be clear and honest about what I want, I must negotiate, I must develop a cognitive empathy for his position, I must learn to predict and care for another person. I'm not a touchy-feely sort of person so with him I get to use the strength of my mind to keep the relationship smooth. All of these things have drawn me out of my squashed-up state. And we get along very well, the sex is great. It's fun hanging out with him. For me the cognitive effort is worth it and enjoyable after its own fashion.

      Delete
  15. Hello, I was reading up about ASPD when I stumbled upon this thread.
    I'm currently in dubio about a friendship...

    I met someone, last year and we became friends. We have a lot of arguments, and I always related it to being burned in the past and insecurities. Lately however, I've been feeling something else is "off"

    We're currently not talking, after that last week I let him know that I take my friends very much for what they are, but that its not okay to manipulate me, and then to expect me to do as if i don't realize what is going on.

    Not too long ago, I asked him: Does it bother you when i feel bad about something you said to me?.. He danced around the question, but his first response was: "No, I'm a sociopath, ... FFS, really?"
    I had been thinking about this before... Aspie, narc.. But ASPD seems to fit quite well.

    I'm now wondering if i should "just let go" ... This seems a time where that is possible. Let it slide, and let myself have peace of mind, as the last few weeks were a rollercoaster and truly draining.
    On the other hand... I don't like giving up on people, quirks or not. If people are good to me, I want to be good to them, and I feel like part of his is really good to me.... But that part of him is a bit out of control: Wanting to control, punishing when i did something he doesn't like, passive agressive, etc...

    I'm wondering if I should confront him about the sociopath tendencies. I'm wondering if it would open up the ability to talk, trust more, see if i can adjust my frame of mind / expectations, keep better boundaries...

    Any insights from you would be helpful.

    Thanks!

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    1. You need to read what a sociopath does in relationships because he's doing them to you. He will never change. You can't change him no matter how hard you try. The good you see is what he wants you to see lol. Leave him alone and don't let your emotions run your life.

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    2. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    3. Sociopaths can change. They'll change if *THEY* want to change. They don't care if *YOU* want them to.

      Delete
    4. I guess we ended things yesterday after another very weird and twisted conversation. I guess it went as it always went whenever I tried to convey a point... Things get twisted and turned around putting me in the defense. Usually, that got me all upset, but not this time. I guess I see it for what it is now.

      Delete
    5. Hi Green,

      A sociopath must win, hence the twisted convos. The most important thing for them is to maintain their safe and strong position; this is more important to them than connection so in a conflict trying to connect the way we normally do flat out doesn't work. That would put him in a disadvantageous position (in his view.)

      You can have a mutually beneficial relationship but there's art and science to it. I'm not gonna lie, it's a lot of effort, but for me it's also been a maturing process.

      Like with a child, you have to look beneath the words and find intent pre-verbally. Does his body tell you it's over? Really?

      M.E. posted a tweet once saying the best way with a sociopath is to de-escalate. This really is the best advice.

      BUT it's super hard when you're own needs aren't met. It's hard to step outside your own paradigm and cater to another's. And sometimes you shouldn't have to. If you are ready to accept him for who he is, he should accept you.

      There are ways to communicate what you need. It might be an explicit negotiation. Generally, he would have to feel comfortable to accept any terms.

      I guess it sounds crazy but once you have a few basic principles, the confusion and energy expenditure decreases a lot. Nevertheless, I was advised (online) that if I wanted someone who appreciates my love, find a neurotypical. I never forget this. That's just how it is. A series of negotiations, with a very slowly building base of trust.

      I'm happy to chat more specifically if you're interested. north.spinning.scenarios@gmail.com

      Delete
    6. A sociopath must win, hence the twisted convos. The most important thing for them is to maintain their safe and strong position; this is more important to them than connection so in a conflict trying to connect the way we normally do flat out doesn't work."

      Ha! Yes. Well-stated.

      Delete
    7. in dubio"? Lol

      I take it you mean "in limbo".

      I guess we ended things yesterday after another very weird and twisted conversation. I guess it went as it always went whenever I tried to convey a point... Things get twisted and turned around putting me in the defense. Usually, that got me all upset, but not this time. I guess I see it for what it is now.

      It sounds to me as though you have a communication problem, alright. One in which you are left bumbling and confused.

      Allow me to translate:

      the narcissist/sociopath you have become entangled with is shit-testing you. He is twisting and re-framing your conversations in order to make his unreasonable behaviour sound logical and justified. This is because he wants to see to what extent he can manipulate and dominate you.

      This may not even be conscious on his part. He is merely behaving according to his nature.

      Unless he becomes self-aware, and decides for himself to change (see Damaged's comment) - you can expect more of the same.

      The vibe i get from him is that he's misunderstood, and that he looses people in his life...

      He *is* misunderstood. You were a case in point. But if he is what he claims to be, he doesn't care. In fact, he likely revels in his capacity to obfuscate and deceive.

      He probably doesn't "lose" people so much as he drops them, because the relationships become too much trouble for him to maintain.

      Sounds very lonely to me.

      He is not lonely; he is selective.

      Chances are, you won't make the cut.

      Not too long ago, I asked him: Does it bother you when i feel bad about something you said to me?.. He danced around the question, but his first response was: "No, I'm a sociopath, ... FFS, really?"

      He wants to be known.

      I'm wondering if I should confront him about the sociopath tendencies. I'm wondering if it would open up the ability to talk, trust more, see if i can adjust my frame of mind / expectations, keep better boundaries...

      If you manage to penetrate his defenses, he will value your company. If you attract him sexually, he will seek to obliterate your boundaries. But if you coldly stick to them without capitulating or yielding, he will lose interest rapidly.

      Unless he wants you, you are of limited value to him, and stand little chance of engaging him emotionally.

      If he wants you, and you want to keep him- push and pull.

      Intrigue him sexually.

      But before you do, ask yourself whether his good qualities merit your loyalty.

      Delete
    8. Like with a child, you have to look beneath the words and find intent pre-verbally. Does his body tell you it's over? Really?

      ^^

      M.E. posted a tweet once saying the best way with a sociopath is to de-escalate. This really is the best advice.

      Mmmm. North, talk some more psycho-babble to me.
      ;)

      Delete
    9. I don't know how to do the italic, but here goes...

      In dubio / in doubt.. I guess you could say in limbo as well.Although it's not entirely what i meant, it fits, too. English is not my first language, so aplogies for the quirks in it. My "friend" is native english though... He enjoys nitpicking on mis-used words / contexts and grammar at times. :-)

      The first thing I keep wondering about is... Is he truly within the ASPD spectrum.
      It seems so easy to doubt about it. Although reading up, it does seem to fit.
      I keep being surprised how "foolproof" his "I'm so reasonable" persona is in unfolding discussions. It's truly an art by itself!

      Although I know what happens on those moments, i don't feel armed to form "responses that are good enough to show the flaws in his explanation" .. Probably because it's not in my nature to come on strong?

      "Unless he becomes self-aware, and decides for himself to change (see Damaged's comment) - you can expect more of the same. "
      > You think he isn't self aware?

      And yes.. Is it worth all the trouble. Can it be worth it? Or will it be an everlasting push pull game? Perhaps it's over already.
      > Chances are, you won't make the cut. .... perhaps that happened already.

      "He wants to be known. "
      Why would he want that? (to of course deny it later... "it was sarcasm" .. his real first language.


      " If you manage to penetrate his defenses, he will value your company. If you attract him sexually, he will seek to obliterate your boundaries. But if you coldly stick to them without capitulating or yielding, he will lose interest rapidly.

      Unless he wants you, you are of limited value to him, and stand little chance of engaging him emotionally.

      If he wants you, and you want to keep him- push and pull.

      Intrigue him sexually."

      Penetrate defenses? How?
      And so, you're saying the only way to attract is sexually?

      Delete
    10. "Like with a child, you have to look beneath the words and find intent pre-verbally. Does his body tell you it's over? Really?

      ^^

      M.E. posted a tweet once saying the best way with a sociopath is to de-escalate. This really is the best advice.

      Mmmm. North, talk some more psycho-babble to me.
      ;)"


      Oh, alright A :)

      My experience has shown his body communicates pretty clearly how he feels about me at any given point. In the absence of neurotypical-style communication, I use the warmth or coldness of his body to judge where he's at and this is a fairly reliable method. He sure as heck doesn't tell me :p

      Good to see you again.

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    11. He is twisting and re-framing your conversations in order to make his unreasonable behaviour sound logical and justified.

      This explains why I say to take pre-verbal signals of intent. The words don't matter so much, the more we step away from them and look to what's underneath, the easier things are. This actually goes for all relationships.

      Basic idea is that if he's testing you, something is at stake for him, I.e. He's invested in some way.

      Delete
  16. I've been doing nothing but reading... and remain with a lot of "what if's" ... So I thought I'd see if i could gain any advice from people who have been in similar situations...

    I'm very much in dubio about just moving on and keeping my peace of mind... or to see if we can do something that is mutual beneficial.
    The vibe i get from him is that he's misunderstood, and that he looses people in his life... Sounds very lonely to me.

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  17. Yeah... You "cared" enough to read it and keep reading my replies though lmfao :)

    ReplyDelete
  18. why "caring" between "" ?

    And that is funny.. why? ... I am not sure what your replies were either. I'm seriously confused these days.. lol (and why does it keep changing my name to unknown?)
    Anyways.. thanks for your two cents!

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  19. Nothing says you can't be mutually beneficial, but like bella said it's not gonna happen if your goal is to change your friend. Read to understand what they are doing and how they are doing it. Then pay attention to them as an individual rather then a label.

    If what they as an individual are fits for you, then give it a go. But don't lie to yourself that they are hiding a nice person underneath, or that they'll change.

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    Replies
    1. An is it unreasonable to expect that they limit the games they play on you? I don't mind games... I just hate the ones that affect me emotionally in a bad way. Either way, I just threw a message aout asking about it...I guess we'll see how that goes...

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  20. It's not unreasonable to request, but it's unlikely to happen. Could you be requested to do away with your emotions? It'd be a reasonable request, but unlikely to be complied with.

    Maybe have some private chat with North, about what it means to be with someone different.

    What books are you reading? Blogs? There are some great resources. But at the end of the day the best resource is you, you know deep down what they are and what you need/want.

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    1. I've been reading whatever I could in the past few weeks.
      I think my message of this evening turned into a definite goodbye.. But you never know. I didn't know you could talk privately with anyone here... The website is very informative thoug.

      Delete
    2. Alci is right that you'll have the best read on the situation.

      Re games, I can't say too much without more info. Generally, my view of their games is that their main purpose is to preserve their advantage. Trust is very difficult for them. They don't want to disclose their position and they do want to know how you'll react. They will deliberately test, deliberately de-stabilise, deliberately hide for these purposes.

      I guess you will have picked up a very key point from people's responses: don't try to change him or forget he's different. This is something more than stubbornness. Once, when trying to reach a mutually beneficial solution I started saying to **-* "I feel when I'm trying to reach common ground that you think..." he finished my sentence "that you're pulling me off my ground."

      They can't be pulled off their ground. I think there's a very solid survival reason for this resoluteness in them. It's a pain to deal with, lol, but that's how it is. You might think there's plenty of value to offset this. You might not.

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    3. @AA, "Could you be requested to do away with your emotions? It'd be a reasonable request, but unlikely to be complied with. "

      I've been told in the past a few times, for example when i felt pangs of jealousy, or had some other emo outburst, that I needed to "work on that" lol... I think I did, I learned to control it a little and perhaps care less, by reframing my perspective on things, rationalizing the FWB thing > "it's non commital... welcome to the adult world."

      But I keeps conflicting in my head: Yes, he's right, and being able to do so will benefit me, vs the more sarcastic voice "sure, would be handy for you, wouldn't it."

      @Bella Donna "Let us know how it goes"
      There hasn't been any contact the past few days... Except his "I'm so happy photo" on Facebook, and "Look, I'm online super often now, while I wasn't, I hate using messenger" ... Haha, I disconnected that. I just found that i was obsessing more about it than I should. I like my peace of mind!

      As for how it goes...
      I wish things would have gone different... But I realize that if I were to continue things, I'd always be the one giving in.

      Also, I think continuing things wouldn't leave room to start a real relationship with someone else. If that were the case, I'd consider it... I see his value, I enjoy bantering with him, I love his random sense of humor, and yes, I believe in some way that he may care.

      However, it leaves little room for "me as I am" ... Learning is good, but being able to be what you are, is good as well.

      When I left my long term relationship, few years back... I wrote down what I had... And what I wanted. What I had wasn't bad, so if I don't go for what I want, why did I leave in the first place?

      This week has been confusing... guilt mixed with determination, seeing the truth, doubting the truth...
      I'm a rational person... It will pass. But I feel selfish for thinking that way right now.

      Delete
    4. Well I'm glad you chose yourself over him because that's what it boils down to...

      Delete
    5. Looks like today there is some approach attempt on the app where we met... It's an anonymous thing where you can post things "to the world"
      ... I've reacted in a neutral / positive way.

      He always said it's a sort of a "not real platform, for bullshit and banter" ..we used it in the past to get communication going again.

      Do you think it's possible to keep contact in a sort of limited way?
      I wonder about that...

      I'm thinking that is just attempt to see if I'm still responsive or not.

      Meh...

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    6. hmm I think you could if you just keep in mind that it is just that and only for YOUR own desires not his.

      Delete
    7. That makes me wonder...
      If sociopaths see people as to fullfill their needs only, they'd be okay with an equal treatment?

      Not that I'm sure I could actthat way, it just makes me wonder...
      I've had the question multiple times: " oh, so you're just using me?" .... Or "it's all about me me me with you, isn't it?" This always happened in a relaxed moment and presented as a joke...

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    8. (an I don't mean to generalize there )

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    9. The way I see it personally in my relationship now is I know he has needs as do I and if we can fulfill both without harm and can live in harmony lolol (most of the time) then who cares? I mean doesn't everyone "use" everyone for some type of gain? Emotional, physical, etc. Everybody gets something from everyone or there wouldn't be relationships.

      Delete
    10. Hmmm... I find that I often struggle with "intent."

      Like, sometimes I imagine him being entertained with the idea "weak being, I can let her do what I want" ... That's something that really annoys me.

      If it's just an exchange as you describe, it's something I may be a mindset I can try to adapt... The other one, much more difficult ... Too stubborn / proud? Lol...

      Delete
    11. hmmm lol yeah see that doesn't bother me because I am allowing it. He's not tricking me I am in control of allowing him to control me. Get it?

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    12. If he was truly tricking you, you wouldn't know it lol. That is when he would have FULL control.

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    13. You are allowing him to do it because you are getting something from him in return also. Win win

      Delete
    14. "If he was truly tricking you, you wouldn't know it lol. That is when he would have FULL control."

      I think until recently, I didn't see it as manipulating, or at least not in the light I see it now...

      So what are the main things you get out of your relationship, of I may ask?

      Delete
    15. Entertainment, monetary, "emotional", enjoyment, sex lol

      Delete
    16. I reckon neurotypicals are just as utilitarian in relationships as sociopaths. We have nice emotional wrappers around it, though. Ultimately, we don't invest in relationships we don't receive a perceived benefit from. We don't invest in ANYTHING we don't antipate a benefit from. Another difference, though, is that connection is more of a perceived benefit for neurotypicals than sociopaths.

      Everyone switches social alliances when it's beneficial to do so, be that in romantic relationships, sporting teams, factions in politics or work, you name it. Nature of the beast.

      Delete
    17. I like having my connection with J and feel like we are connected and have a connection. It did disappear after I got busy, didn't see him for awhile and ignored him. However he showed up at my house and grabbed my attention again haha

      Delete
  21. Do not confront to try to change. I don't see myself as broken, criminal, or abnormal. This is all I have ever known, and it wasn't until some physician put the ASPD label on me did I realize that I was "wrong" in other people's opinions.

    Contrary to what the professional looking over my shoulder is attempting...

    People are not in need of fixing. You can train or educate, teach and learn some coping tactics, but even with all the best instruction, they will be the same person. Just with a improved facade.

    If you cannot exist with who they are, it is betterrible to exist apart. More likely the changer will be affected more the the target.

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    1. I wouldn't anyone to change, but I do expect from close friends that at least they'd be considerate about things that hurt me or bother me.... But in this case, that's probably too much asked for, and probably the line I should draw for myself.

      If someone would tell me straight up they are bad at empathy, then that's fine... I miss the ball often, myself. But blame shifting and turning things around is a choice, and one I don't agree with.

      I've been very confused this week... Wondering if I am overreacting, seeing things that aren't there, or if perhaps I am reading the wrong reasons... Going over the past events over and over again though, rationally, I come to the same conclusion every time: This is not how friends go on about eachother (in my mind that is)

      I'm worried I leave him behind disappointed: Another one that shut the door on him. At the same time, I am sort of believing he has been planning this exit, having perhaps found someone "easier" and more fun... Since I'm rather inhibited and ask many questions. He often told me I am weird, and how other people are usually "easier" than I.

      Ah well... we'll see how it goes I guess. It's just I dislike open endings...

      I felt he was still playing a game with me via social media... So I disconnected us from there.

      I owe him a bit of change ... I'm planning to mail it to him. I will mail it in a way he will have to sign for it ... Which means he'll have to go to the post office to pick it up. He won't know it comes from me till he arrives at the post office, I'm sure he'll be annoyed about it, which I find a bit pleasing, but hey, I dont want to be in debt, and also... I want to make sure the item arrives, unlike some of my messages... :P

      If you lie down with dogs...

      Delete
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  23. Venator of VerumJuly 16, 2017 at 1:14 AM

    It's always about comfort and opportunity.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I guess I was too much trouble :-P

      Delete
  24. Hmmm.... I see what you're saying. It's a bit mind bending, looks rational on paper... Not sure if I could stay rational applying it ..haha

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    Replies
    1. haha well good luck! Try it see how it goes. I never do anything in my life without some type of gain. Entertainment, monetary, "emotional", enjoyment, etc. I honestly believe most people live that way they just don't admit it lol.

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  25. And would you be amused if I came back here in 2 weeks , sobbing it didn't work and left me feeling awful? :-p

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    1. lol no I would feel indifferent. I am giving you honest advice lol. for all I know this is made up LMFAO IDK but on the contrary I don't care either haha

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    2. So I guess you are wondering what my gain is from you hence the question? Entertainment not sadism lol

      Delete
  26. Hahaha, thanks... I'll let you know if something changes. And how it went if it does. I can live with entertainment... As long as t doesn't go at the expense of my sensitive heart, that is :-p

    It's funny how I got to hear so often that I'm so sensitive and emo... I think most people would consider me the opposite... I am sensitive though, it's jus that reason always comes first, like I am lost decide how I feel about something, most of the time.





    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You seem emotional but a realist. Trust your instincts. YW..

      Delete
    2. Bella is right. Emotions are a key part of your make up; they don't make you inferior simply because he can't understand him.

      A real key is to challenge his narrative. Trust your own judgement and the person you are. Stay grounded in that. From there, you can listen to feedback from others and grow in ways that align with who you are.

      Always challenge his narrative if it doesn't sit well with you. Remember he is giving clues as to his own stake when he does these things.

      Delete
    3. Yes and believe actions not words...hi North

      Delete
  27. I see why you get indulged with poetry ;-)

    I start to like this place! Haha!

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    Replies
    1. I love poetry haaha and playing on words...hidden meanings of things..one poem can take on a million different meanings depending on who is reading it and their mood at that time..and the poem's meaning can also change later on when their mood changes..

      Delete
  28. True... It's one of the things I like about "him" ;-) the wordplays...

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    1. He just wants attention ignore him lol

      Delete
    2. Bella! That's your child! You can't say shit like that in public!

      Bad BellEnd

      Screeeeeeeech screeeeech

      Delete
    3. That was a good one actually bahahahhaha...

      Delete
    4. Must of gotten tired of jerking it to my pic lolol welcome back

      Delete
    5. I could never tire of that Bell...leaves just turn me on far too much.
      Enjoying the attention jubblies? The Green BellEnd Show...sounds like a sexually transmitted disease, though an STD would probably be more entertaining than watching you two try and buddy up.
      Why don't you invite it (Green, that would be you) to your blog, not only then would your followers double, but we wouldn't be obliged to read you twos piss exchanges.

      Failing that, put your tits back up, least then we can forgive you for the mundanity.
      Actually, scratch that, it's painful enough how up yourself you are as is.

      Hi! Nice to be back cheers BellEnd, I've missed you two.

      (Please BellEnd, accept the grammatical mistake as intentional)

      Hey Ve...screeeeech screeeech

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    6. Ha!!! I can always tell when you're responding with the amount of time it takes for you to articulate your idiotic responses lol. BTW my tits are up, try deleting my pic as your background image on your computer than you won't have to stare at such beauty ;) than maybe you can concentrate on your replies and typing instead of rubbing one out all day to your new obsession

      Delete
    7. ***filing my nails*** must be typing again....**yawns** hurry hurry before you lose my interest

      Delete
    8. I can't even enjoy making fun out of you, because you're too dumb, that's not even an arguement BellEnd, I don't have a computer, let alone a screensaver, I just have a hand drawn A4 sheet of you and your chest, and I take it with me everywhere.
      My kids can't wait for us to marry.

      Green, please step in and take this mong back, you've fuck all personality yourself, so she can keep up with you easily, if you start losing her, just screech or head butt the table repeatedly, she'll notice you eventually.

      And the articulation point dear, as you well know, was mine, spit firing remember Chesty? You're most welcome to steal my personality and pass it off as your own cherub, but maybe not straight back at me?

      Does it cost you a fortune in Rubix Cubes? Building blocks? How many times have you seen Rainman?

      I do apologise if this articulation has gone on a bit babes, wanna jam with me?....


      Screeeech scrrreeeeeeeeeeech

      Delete
    9. Oooooh between your misspellings and run on sentences I can't make out a word you're saying lol. I think the blood flow is else where that's ok love. Sadly, I'm bored again. Maybe you should go play with your "sub" hahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahahah

      Delete
    10. "you've fuck all personality yourself" .... Must be because i'm not a native speaker, but I really don't know what that means.

      And followers? I have followers? ... Oh dear...

      Delete
    11. Green he rarely makes sense hahahaha

      Delete
    12. Haha very comical and entertaining lol. Fun to play with but than he gets too upset and starts rambling and than it's impossible to continue lol..Poor thing

      Delete
    13. Very limited vocabulary too smh sad. Always repeating the same insults, never anything new lol...like a child stomping and screaming for attention.

      Delete
    14. No Green [rolls eyes], you don't have followers, but it's not your fault don't stress, you're not a native as you say.
      Does that make you like, American then or something?

      Comes to something when a goddamn Yank accuses you of not making sense.
      Bloody foreigners.
      Bugger off back to your own country, you know how you lot don't like to be scalped.
      You're new, or "Green" (very clever Green, very clever), so you can be excused, but this BellEnd you're trying to hug, well, she's dumb. She looks for people like you, Alcopops, and sniffs around them, makes sure she tells them all her shot whilst pretending to listen to theirs (whilst really, she's just waiting to say about her and the toss rag married bloke stringing her along again), but you're pretty lost on here too in fairness, so hold hands and drop shit one line comments in here and there.
      Comprendè?
      Capiché
      unterschtant?

      Now, screech with us Green...



      Scrreeeeeeeeechhhhhhh

      Delete
    15. Are you trying to calm down and focus Swop? Lolol man times ticking come on now you have to be faster go go go

      Delete
    16. I'm confused um "bugger off to my own country" um hmm hahahaha. I don't recall going anywhere else lol. Damn my picture really has fucked up your mind huh lolol. Swop I'm not really there ok? It's an image lmfao.

      Delete
  29. Hahahahaha, can you do that roll eye again?
    If i were American, odds would be high i'd still be a native speaker... Or am i seeing that wrong?
    None of these:
    Comprendè?
    Capiché
    unterschtant?
    Are in my native language... But I understood them all... (Also very clever?)

    So green, and not native, but perhaps a bit naive...
    But what are alcopops? ... (If I sniff, it smells like entertainment...)

    I do got worried about "My blog"... must be my paranoid tendencies i recently developped, ha!


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  30. Oh Green hahahaha I'm starting to love you lolol. I almost pissed from laughing so hard hahahhahahahahahhaa

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    1. I think I just got a headache.. just from laughing...

      Delete
    2. " CAn you do that roll eye thing again" haaaaaahahahahahahahahahhaah fuck that made me die lolol

      Delete
  31. But Swop.. Since you've been following the conversation, maybe you have some additional wise words for me?

    ReplyDelete
  32. [rolls eyes] Green, I'm happy to entertain you, the language barrier is still easier than those screech intermingled autistic ravings.

    Green, in my native land, is a term for, new, as in "green labour".
    I'm gonna hazard from your bloc speech that you're Eastern European?


    Bella, relax now Jugs, don't get jealous, I'm not going to steal your new friend. Go take some selfies, pour, buff your boobs up, turn the music up to drown the screeching and wait patiently whilst the grown ups talk.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes Sir. * waits patiently *

      Delete
    2. Swop now what did I say about rubbing? Green he will respond in a minute LMFAO

      Delete
  33. Awwww... Thanks for entertaining me, it's just what I needed!

    Well, where I come from, western Europe that is, we also have this green thing for new. And more specific "green behind the ears" ... Whilst looking up if I now gave away my mothertongue (that sounds weird), I noticed I didn't and that there's even a song titled "Green behind the ears"

    And what's that blog you keep referring to? Where can i find it? Lol!

    BD you make me laugh! (and yes, you too, Swop)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. He must be in a drunken sleep lolol

      Delete
  34. Hahaha his wheels are turning now lolol or finger rubbing lmfao

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I didn't say anything kinky, did I?

      Delete
    2. "Mother tongue " hahaha must of done it...he has mommy issues hence his obsession with calling every woman a slag, whore, etc. lol pissed mommy didn't love him enough oooor too much hahahhahahaha

      Delete
    3. I'm sure you noticed also he's terrible at analyzing. Sad because he tries so hard. Poor thing....;)

      Delete
  35. Now now...I liked his eye roll, you're being a bit hard on him now. :-) My emo heart!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Awwww I'm so sorry damn that was messed up huh? Oh I hope he's not like feeling all bad damn.

      Delete
  36. I give up, it's ok pathetic, Bella, you're just a twat babes, it's not even fun, sorry Green, I'll have to leave you to the autistic "raising" attention whore sorry, good luck, doubt you'll be around for long either once you get sick of her.
    Bella, please go somewhere else love, maybe your kids room, spend sometime pretending to be a mother instead of trying to be clever and sociopathic...you're neither, just irritating and unfunny.
    Why don't you do the spaz a favour and the rest of us on here, and die hun?
    Please, you're just boring.

    Don't reply because I'm not reading anymore, I loved this site, loads of us did, and they're virtually all gone, and I'm afraid it's because of boring cunts like you Bell, you're a prick love.

    Yes yes, go on, lolololol or whatever intellectual mush you perceive as banter, you haven't got it, please go away, just, die babes.

    Hey Vegas, don't blame you for leaving sweetheart;)

    ReplyDelete
  37. Ohh, so no wise words from you for me? *pouts*

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. lolol nope he can never have real conversations

      Delete
    2. Whats the Blog thing he was referring to? Does anything show under my username?

      Delete
    3. ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh hahahahahahahhaa the mommy comment sent him over the edge! Did the knife cut too deep love? Or mommy's di.... in your a... oh nevermind. I've hurt you enough lol. Ciao Shite I mean Swop

      Delete
    4. No he said blog but meant my google plus lol. He's an idiot you have to forgive him. I was having a conversation with someone on there and he basically stalked it and read the whole thing. We knew he did lolol but he's so clueless he thought he was gathering information hahahahahahaha #fuckingmoronthisguy

      Delete
  38. Green, incase you hadn't noticed, I'm not interested in pseudo intellectual psycho babble, I have no concern for appearing all clever and shit, I come here purely for the entertainment, if it's wise words and insight you're after, I'd recommend North, Puppy Basket and of course, A, but with the exception of North, they rarely make appearances anymore (take note BellEnd). I prefer to call people names and make fun of their kids, I have severe sociopathic traits (or, severe sociopathy as the wife doth call it), and am very easily bored of the Bella types, as are the other frequent flyers on here, so you won't get much wise words from me, unless, like me, you find 'cunt' and 'screech' wise? If so, I could be the one for you after all you screechy cunt you.

    Mothertongue? Chermany??? Das ist einen Cherman shnaying nein??!!
    Ich nichta lichta ze Chermans.

    That's not true, you lot are alright, mostly, if somewhat gull able when it comes to the Austrians

    Hey Bella...ah fuck it, can't even be bothered to screech now. Hope your happy [stamps feet]

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Probably piss drunk already. Or trying to change one last time? Hahahahhahahaha fuck you're sad

      Delete
  39. As you can see Green he's a delusional narcissist with a lower intelligence and an even lower self esteem.

    ReplyDelete
  40. Hmmzz.... Germany is close... So close!

    Thanks for the recommendations! And thanks for the laughs this evening both, that was very welcome... I'll stop spamming you now, bedtime here!

    ReplyDelete
  41. There you go Bell, good work girl, I'm done. I'm just so sad to see comments from you like "the mommy comment made him cry", did you make a mommy comment?
    It's so disappointing Bell, take a look at the comment numbers on the threads these days, compare them with this time last year babes, see the difference? Ask Rainman to show you the difference in the little numbers and the old big numbers love, that's the way it's gone now, and it's stuff like you that's done it Bella, it's pretty sad.
    I'm gonna miss it here, but not like this, this is shit.

    North, Vegas, Puppy Basket, urgh...Ukan, spazzy kat, Mr Hyde...and of course, my darling A [fist bumps], been a pleasure folks

    Peace out

    Bye Vegas :(

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Guess I didn't add much to it. Was a bit caught up with the welcome distraction.

      As for me... There has been a few back and forths on the app where we met (an "anonymous posting stuff into the world" kinda app) ... Some seemed playful, some seemed angry / intimidating. Like openly complaining about his stalker on the app (while I'm sure it's quite the opposite way, lol) ... That's what the block function is fore I'd say.

      I'd say he's searching for an opening, seeing if I'm still responsive.

      I'm not sure what the intention of it is, but I'm good with how things are for now... It gives me time to make up my mind about what I want for myself - keep the contact or loose it.

      Delete
    2. Cheers, Swop.

      This place ebbs and flows. Do swim in amongst the flotsam every now and then.

      Delete
  42. I tried to post something... But couldn't

    ReplyDelete
  43. Alcibiades Anon, I see you wrote a book. Would you have some other suggestions of what would be good recources to read?

    ReplyDelete

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