Sunday, November 20, 2011

Sociopathic children

I always want to ask concerned parents -- would it really be so bad if your son or daughter was a sociopath? Sure, they might not be able to ever love you the way a meek little thing would, but the kid will take care of himself, even do very well for himself. As one blogger puts it:
Given that lack of conscience is a great benefit in getting on in the worlds of business, politics and everyday life, won't many neuro typicals actually *want* a sociopathic child as charm and social status are so highly valued by them?
Assuming you do have a sociopathic child and would rather not, what would you be willing to try to get your child to act normal? Would you be willing to do as this author suggests and encourage fear within your child?
Do not work too hard to discourage him from being fearful. Especially avoid placing him in situations where he has to face and conquer his fears on his own. For example, some people like to teach kids to swim by throwing them in deep water where they will either "sink or swim." A bold, athletic child would likely learn to conquer is fear of deep water and swim if placed in this situation. He would also receive training in being tough and ignoring his fears. This is not a good lesson for the at-risk child.
The author goes on to describe how her sociopathic child developed a fear of the dark and how that was used to curb his behavior:
One evening, when my son was 31 months old, he played with a motorized toy he really liked. It was time for dinner, and I told him he had to put the toy down and sit to eat. I gave him a chance to put the toy down on his own and go to the table. When he refused, I took the toy, picked him up and put him in his high chair for dinner. He threw an enormous tantrum and could not be consoled, even though I told him he could have the toy back after dinner. My usual strategy is to ignore these tantrums and allow them to burn themselves out. This time though, the crying and screaming was very loud and showed no signs of abating. His sisters complained that they could not enjoy the meal because of his behavior. I got up and moved the high chair, with the thought of just moving it far enough away to allow us to eat in some peace. Well, my son thought I was going to move him in the DREADED DARK PLACE! He said, "No mommy, no, I scared dark!" I said, " If you don't want me to move you away form the table, you will have to quiet, and eat your dinner." Miraculously, the tantrum stopped. Not only did the tantrum stop, but also he was so happy at not being banished to the dark place that he started to play and laugh with his sisters. He ate very well at dinner that night. He also completely forgot about the beloved motorized toy.
Parents of sociopath children, is this something that you would do with your child?

674 comments:

  1. I've recently been told by a psychiatrist I was a sociopath, as he said they dislike the term, "Anti-Social" as it did not fully suit. In anycase, the two year old does not even sound as if he is a sociopath. Just a child refusing to answer as most children commonly do.

    Although, from it's use I'm guessing somewhere along the lines the author says the child is a sociopath. If that's the case, no. I wouldn't.

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  2. What does it matter what you do with it?

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  3. Uh yeah. Parents can treat "sociopathic" children just like regular children. Because sociopathic children aren't *necessarily* all that bright or over-achievers or anything, plus they DO have their fears - EMOTIONS, first of all.

    So really, this whole argument is moot.

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  4. In the story, the parent didn't threaten the child to be sent to the "dark place." They said simply that he would have to be moved away from the table. The child, seeing that the parent was taking action to control the child's behavior, decided to up the ante by acting like he believed his parents were going to banish him "the dark place." He saw that his attempt to control was being interfered with, he tried another tactic and when that didn't work, he gave up. So I do see some possible sociopathic behavior.

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  5. children can't be sociopaths; this is absurd. if anything the adult behaved in a very cold and sociopathic way towards the child in that story, viewing the child as an inconvenience and indirectly threatening him with terror. kids have big egos, it's natural, and good parents gradually help them grow out of that into healthy adults. I don't care if doctors or books say it, this is utterly absurd. come on.

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  6. One might want to flip the lens of scrutinty and focus instead on the parents/close relatives.

    Or is the child a product of spontaneous generation?

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  7. anonymous #3, along with others, I think are reading too much into this child's actions. Yes, if rationalized the child's actions display the characteristics of basic sociopathic strategies. But does a child of 2 1/2 posses the experience and mental capacity to manipulate it's parents in so advanced a manner? It is my opinion is displaying classic characteristics of the game stage of socialization and nothing further.

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  8. Although sociopathy isn't diagnosed until a child has reached the age of 18, sociopathy can most definitely be present before then and is often diagnosed as conduct disorder or ODD. Sociopathy has biological origins AND can stem from environmental influences. I think it's important to acknowledge that sociopathic tendencies can be present in children.

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  9. Sociopathic children are interesting to study, because you have someone under the age of 10 who is probably capable of killing another human being and not feel any remourse or guilt what-so-ever. Interesting but also sad that a child is able to do something like that.

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  10. I believe my close friend's 6 yr old daughter is a sociopath.
    She has no remorse, for anything.
    Almost killed a family puppy,just looking at it as it yelped and struggled to breathe. Then skipped away humming when her mother found her. She has absolutely no empathy. Concern for other's feelings or reactions is just not there. She abuses her 3 yr old sister. Not just sisters fighting. The cheap shots she takes on this girl is frightening.I have witnessed her do this myself. Her sister, bleeding or screaming in pain is (what looks like to me ) pleasurable for her. When confronted... she blames the sister. When that doesn't work she lies. When that doesn't work she will cry, then be giggly and loveable, as soon as she sees that does not work she will just simply state... Calmly.. well she was in my way, I wanted to go down the slide. BUT you kicked her in the face, she fell off the playset. Why did you do that? Calmly, she was in my way I told you. She is a bully at school.Refuses to do school work. No matter any punishment by teacher or parent. Getting her way is her #1 goal. She is relentless. days on end obsessing over this one thing she "needs". When she was 5 yrs old her parents got her latest petshops toys, with all the sounds,etc. When she opened it she was so upset she demanded a different one. The one the girl across the street had. Even though this one was better. When her mother said...hey you need to appreciate what you have and be thankful. She did her usual...stare straight ahead.red faced, pissed for even being questioned.Her mother said, well if you can't appreciate this I will take it away and bring it back to the store. This 5 yr old looked up at her mother and said... Go ahead. Then NEVER asked about it again. There was no "wait, no, I want it mommy".
    There is no soul in this child's eyes. She will decide she doesn't "feel like" going to the potty and will just sit on a couch and pee. When confronted, she is NOT embarressed. Not sorry. She will just say, I didn't think I could make it to the bathroom. In her mind, this is right.OK. Can not be convinced otherwise.
    No compassion for other people ,animals. Just contempt.
    By the way, her sister is the polar opposite. The parents are gentle, kind and do not abuse her. Even spankings are saved for things like touching the hot stove for example.
    So this friend has come to me now 3 times with concerns over her daughter's scary behavior. Even one time telling me she believes whatever is wrong with her she was born this way. I know she was afraid after finding her with the puppy. Chocking it with the door. More afraid of her actions after the fact. What on earth do I say? How can you possibly tell someone I think your daughter is a sociopath? I once suggested they get her evaluated. Can anyone relate to this? Am I thinking wrong here?

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  11. "the good son" has already answered this question

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  12. IT WOULD BE VERY BAD TOO HAVE A SOCIOPATH CHILD.BECAUSE AS A PARENT ,AS A HUMAN BEING YOU GIVE ALL YOUR LOVE,AND DO EVERYTHING IN OUR POWER TO INSURE YOUR CHILD BECOMES A SUCCESSFUL,LAW ABIDING CITIZEN,TO RESPECT ,AND TO LOVE HIS FELLOW MAN. TOO FIND OUT THAT IT WAS ALL IN VAIN,THAT YOUR CHILD IS AN ABOMINATION,A MISTAKE OF NATURE WOULD BE DEVASTATING.YOU SHOULD END ALL CONTACT ,DROP THESE PEOPLE OFF ON A DESERTED ISLAND SOMEWHERE ,ANYTHING TOO RID THE WORLD OF THESE PESTS.YOU MAY SAY HOW COULD YOU SAY THAT BOUT YOUR OWN FAMILY MEMBER.I SAY TOO YOU,REMEMBER THESE PEOPLE CAN NEVER BE CURED,NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU LOVE THEM IT CAN NEVER BE RETURNED,THERE ENTIRE EXISTENCE IS A !! LIE !!.FOR EXAMPLE IF HEY SAW A LITTLE CHILD BEING RAPED AND MURDERED ,THEY WOULD DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO HELP THAT CHILD ,UNLESS IT MADE THEM LOOK GOOD IN SOME WAY,NOT BECAUSE THEY FELT ANGRY,AND SAD FOR THE CHILD.ONCE AGAIN I SAY SOCIOPATHS ARE MISTAKES OF NATURE,MUCH LIKE A TWO HEADED COW OR A SIAMESE TWIN .DO AWAY WITH THESE PEOPLE.EVERYONE I MEET ON A DAILY BASIS I LOOK FOR SIGNS OF THESE PEOPLE.AND HOPEFULLY,ONE DAY I'LL MEET ONE OF THESE ABOMINATIONS ,AND IT WILL BE TIME TO PLAY !!!,THNKS DRE

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  13. "IT WOULD BE VERY BAD TOO HAVE A SOCIOPATH CHILD. etc..." Why are you yelling? You believe that Siamese twins are mistakes of nature and should not be allowed to live? You sound like someone who is waiting for an excuse to be violent.

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  14. I second the notion that it would be beyond tragic to have a child grow into a sociopath. I was married to a sociopath. He abondoned me at six months pregnant for a woman he just met. He cheated his way throgh med school, lied to his parents about everything, and would look you in the eye whilst stabbing you in the back. He abandoned MY son after terminating his parental rights (the money was more important than his own child), and bailed for Colorado sans mistress. If my son grew up to be like this man than everything I lived through was in vain. My son will be a human being who takes on his responsibilities and can love a human being with honesty and integrity. If he grew up like his father, that would be the coup de gras. I would jump off a cliff. I seriously would. I don't worry, though. My son is extremely loving and wonderful. He hasn't met his dad and he never will. Thank you God! Sorry to you sociopaths, but you are evil/horrible people. My ex is like his father. Break the cycle! Please do not procreate! If you do, let the victim raise the child and you walk away! You are truly swine. I'm sorry, but that's how I feel. Yes, unlike you, I FEEL!

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  15. I was diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder when I was 10. I'm a teenager now, and i can say without a doubt that upbringing plays a monumental role in the progression of the disorder. It's true, I'm still cold, manipulative, and without remorse, but my parents' good treatment of me, their moral drills and lessons in human interaction have done a great job in burying the sociopath underneath my moral persona. Does it really matter whether or not I'm loving on the inside?
    And by the way, the punishment approach rarely works with child sociopaths. My parents have been trying for my entire life to find something to use against me, all in vain. The last time they used that method on me, I was two, and they would take away my computer. Punishment just teaches us how to find loopholes. If anyone here has a child who is ACTUALLY a sociopath, don't lose faith, and take every act of violence (apart from rough and tumble play in early childhood) seriously. It always escalates.

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  16. I am afraid that my partners 7 year old son is a sociopath. He exhibits 9 0f the top 15 signs of sociopathy.
    1) interest in fires.
    2) still wets the bed.
    3) lack of empathy/compassion.
    4) lack of conscious
    5) lying/manipulative behavior
    6) lack of remorse/indifference.
    7) proccupied with violence
    8) sexually inappropriate behavior.
    9) immediate gratification of needs.

    If anybody has ANY advice, please, help!!!!!

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  17. I believe the child next door is a sociopath and I am really afraid for my daughter's safety. She "charms" everyone she meets and thinks that she is perfect, however, she is extremely manipulative, a habitual liar, is very physically aggressive when her plan goes awry, but lacks all remorse. She is only 10 years old, but all of these behaviors seem to be getting worse and worse.

    I don't know what to do..... her parents are blaming everyone else and are just making the situation worse. What can I do? Is this girl truly a sociopath or just a very troubled little girl?

    Please help?????

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  18. It is very difficult having a sociopathic child. I have to assume that mine is at this point. He has been diagnosed with Conduct Disorder and he is 9. We have been trying to get him help since he was two years old to no avail. He is very manipulative, can be very violent, and shows no actual feelings. We have run out of options again after another attempt to help him.

    With a child like this no amount of love makes any difference, they can detach from their families at will. Since people find it hard to believe that a cute child could be like this, it is very difficult to get any help and most people will coddle these children to avoid any conflicts, which makes it worse.

    I think these children can be helped, but only if they can stop blaming the people around them for their behavior problems and for everything that happens in their life. I think that when they are able to accept responsibility for their actions and can realize that they have a problem, then they can be helped. Until then, the only option is to steer clear of people with sociopathic tendencies. Hopefully medical technology will advance enough to help these people, someday.

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  19. I'm concerned that the author quoted seems to have diagnosed her kid as sociopathic at 31 months! Although I haven't read the book so I don't know the background, perhaps the parent hadn't got as far as labelling the child at this point, and the episode discussed was just an example of something that they felt worked at that stage in their development. But to me it just seems like normal toddler behaviour! Most very young kids are self centred, manipulative and don't fully understand other people's emotions. Being manipulative is just a survival skill, based on the laws of cause and effect - if I want something, and a certain behaviour gets me it, I will behave that way, even if it's a behaviour that adults would consider anti-social. It's only sociopathic if it continues into later childhood. I'm sure there are early signs you can look out for, but you can't use the same criteria as you would in an older child.

    Some of the children described by other commenters here do sound like potential sociopaths, though. A 6/7 year old should have developed enough of a conscience to know that it is wrong to inflict serious harm on another person or an animal. Yes, all children hit each other and don't necessarily show true remorse, but there is a huge difference between slapping your younger sibling and doing something that could cause them serious injury, apparently with no idea why that would be wrong. And yes, all kids learn to lie by that stage, but if they are lying constantly, about everything, that is a cause for concern.

    Even at 7 years old, though, it is still possible that the child has not fully developed their "theory of mind", which is what allows us to imagine what someone else is thinking and feeling. This is one of the things that never fully develops in autistic people. In normal children it has generally developed by age 7, but some kids are slower to develop certain aspects of cognitive function and may take a little longer. However, the ability to lie well implies that their theory of mind is fairly well developed, as it relies on understanding that other people can hold false beliefs, a key part of the theory of mind. So a child who fails to show empathy age 7 might just be slowly developing, but a child who fails to demonstrate empathy, is manipulative and lies effectively may be displaying sociopathic tendencies. Of course, it could all be very skillful attention seeking behaviour by a child who is jealous of their younger sibling (or whatever), but case like that described by "Anonymous" on January 16 it does sound like something more serious.

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  20. re: the 6yr old girl who abuses her 3yr old sister. I grew up with a sister who from the time she could walk and talk could not care about the rights and feelings of others. She was and is still of the mindset that if it's not her way it's the highway. She would pick on kids weaker than her, lie, and steal. As we got older her behavior worsened. She showed no respect towards our mother yet acted like an innocent victim in the presence of our father. Eventually he caught on to her deception and since she could no longer fool him, she took the position that everyone in the family was out to get her. Therapy and treatment has only made her more cunning. I could go on as to how she put our family through hell, but I'd rather tell you to tell your friend that unfortunately her daughter was born that way and is damaged goods.The most she can do is learn to cope until the child is old enough to move out.

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  21. I'm a sociopath, and I was wondering if this was something I could pass on to future children. If so, is this a bad thing? If so, is it avoidable if I use donor eggs, or maybe if my partner (or sperm donor) was such a person as to counteract my being a sociopath?
    I have no problem with being a sociopath but I do feel that I may have been rather hard on my parents at times.
    Being a sociopath myself, if I had sociopathic children do you think I would be able to manage them better or would I do worse than 'normal people' as a parent.

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  22. I believe if you are a true sociopath you can see it yourself first hand before displaying it. It becomes an art that is quickly mastered. A true sociopath is by no means stupid. If you believe that they are, (and I must omit very young emotionally underdeveloped , but not limited to prodigy s), then these experts have truly done their job well! Smart sociopath people achieve full socio-statis as they recognize what emotions (usually sad ones) in their victims they can alter. This theory leads me to the understanding that the true sociopath skates through life based on their keen ability to recognize others emotions by mere observation, all the while understanding that these very emotions are the fundamental tools of their victims very existence. Now tell me. have you ever seen a true socio' deceive an honest, highly moral and intellectual human? I do feel convinced (based on first hand analysis by living with one while being smart enough to secretly monitor and diagnose this tragic mental disorder)that you must have brains to truly decieve.

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  23. Does anyone actually have any advice here? I LOVE my daughter so so much and want to help her, not abandon her. Wouldn't that just make me a sociopath????

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  24. I have an 18 year old daughter That was raised in a good Christian family. For several years she has been a compulsive liar. She'll lie about anything. She also has told me that she doesn't love me and doesn't think she ever did. She never cried when a person or pet died. In fact, she has said that she doesn't really care. She has been sexually promiscuous. She has lived with 2 different men. She just moves in with them and seems not to care at all about her family. She forgets about us, including her sister. She just didn't come home one night about 2 weeks ago. I know she's living with her 40 year old boyfriend, but she won't answer my attempts to contact her. She goes after guys even when she has a boyfriend. Again, she was raised in a morally conservative home, vastly different from how she is acting. For the past 3 months, she has also been secretly seeing other men, while also having a respectable boyfriend. She also has been a model daughter, wanting to spend time with the family, and then, BOOM! Help! Any advice is appreciated, especially from sociopaths.

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  25. I was diagnosed with anti- social personality disorder when I was 6. When my parents were told this, my mom started crying and my dad took me to another theripist who gave them the same diagnoses.
    My parents after that never treated me any differnent and seemed happier.
    The only time I think they really hated having me a little while was when I made my little sister scared of me.

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  26. My son Edward, he is a handful! I bought my daughter a set of dolls and he crushed his sister's dolls with his bare fists and laughed. I felt horrible like I had raised him worng until his doctor told me he was diagnosed with sociopathicy. I cried.

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  27. Your blog has a lot of misleading information in it. You should be ashamed of yourself for saying some of the things you do.

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  28. I do do this with my child. There is just something not right with her. She has to have control of everything, she throws these massive tantrums or gets violent. She's.stabbed her dad once with a fork in the eye she was only two so we just brushed it off he wasnt seriously hurt. We recently had another child and our first goes between telling us she hated and wants to hurt the baby to loving her. We are struggling with weather or not to seek serious treatment. Our child is only four but shows advance intellect. And milestones for 7 year olds. Fire fascinates her and she's almost killed.a.dog, she was bidding her in a blanket..... she manipultes other children but doesnt actually like them ... and she gets this vacant look and creepy smile before she does something

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  29. Wow, I didn't even read the whole of comments or even the story to know that I HAD to post here. My youngest sister (22) now was displaying sociopathic behavior easily by age 3. Her biological father was a pedifile and psycopath (yes I know not all pedifiles are but this one was). Even at age 3 we knew something was desperatly wrong with this child by the time she was 15 I discovered sadley that pretty much every single thing listed described her. I know the child sociopath is rare and the female sociopath almost more rare but I swear by all that is holy I am right about this. (several therapists from our family have verified it since so .....). Let's see: She was in trouble with the law by age 12 or 13. She did so poorly in school (on purpose) that my parents dumped thousands if not tens of thousands into alternative education and she was still a drop out. She has NEVER been able to keep any kind of a job (not even waitressing at a strip club), she lies about everything! I do mean EVERYTHING; she has memories of things that NEVER happened and tells stories that her own friends don't or can't believe. She is a slob and lives in sloth (untill litterally everyone had to throw her out of their home) and she steals like you wouldn't believe! this kid even managed to get a DUI with no drivers license! She is now homeless and lives pretty much as a street kid and it would seem she chooses it. She burns thru people faster than anyone I have ever seen! THESE KIDS ARE NOT JUST MISUNDERSTOOD! They grow up into the type of people who would litteraly step over a dead body (I am not being dramatic). The lack of empathy is beyond scary (one day over dinner she annouced a close class mate was dead, with a smile she kept eating). More people NEED to wake up to this, need to share their stories and need to keep talking because these young people are more dangerous and destructive than anyone knows and there NEEDS to be more help for families like mine who face the crisis of a sociopathic child. -they obviously don't get better with love or time. -Very serious, -J.

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  30. I have read that a "reward system" works for adults. So I'd use this on children! Good behavior gets rewarded.....you gotta not pay so much attention to negative behavior. I have also read that early intervention/therapy is beneficial and definitely before puberty! Let me also mention "Schema Therapy" is being investigated for this condition!

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  31. sociopathic behaviors can start manifesting as soon as a child is able to walk. Extremely intelligent and lacking empathy, the child without boundaries will casually harm the other children and helpless animals around them, and do so stealthily so that often their parents won't notice.
    A former police officer who worked on several cases involving sociopaths, their victims, and "accidental" killings by children said that if your child won't look you in the eye, consistently hurts their siblings, can snap from enraged to calm in an instant, can't function normally in school from an early age (not scholastically...these kids are smart), doing things like throwing rocks at the other kids, pinching, poking with pens or sticks etc., then you should seriously consider a counselor who is knowledgeable about such behaviors and can help with anger management before the child is eight years old.
    Keep in mind that these bright young children are not evil. They simply don't have the internal mediator you and I do.
    Ask your friends to honestly tell you about your child's interactions with their kids. Do their kids always end up hurt? Does someone always "fall" down stairs, or end up with bite marks? If your friends are suddenly cancelling play dates...there may be a reason. Don't be blind about this. And don't leave other younger kids alone with yours.
    Conversely, sometimes a naughty kid is simply undisciplined or acting out due to inconsistent or selfish parental behavior or is misbehaving as a reaction to divorce or a new partner in the parent's life. Assess yourself even as you assess your child, and be honest. Kids know when they don't come first or when a parent is a pushover.

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  32. I love my daughter, but she is a sociopath and over the years she has not only physically & emotionally abused me, but has also told terrible lies about me to others when I would not give her what she wanted. She will even turn on me when I ask her for a simple favor like: "would you like to go for a walk with me"? Her response is to start an argument and yell at me until she then calls one of her many friends to come pick her up. This wouldn't be so bad, except she lies to the person she calls and tells them horrible lies about me. she has even gotten "child protective services" involved when she thought they would let her go live with a friend. when this didn't work out the way she wanted - she ran away and left me to handle the mess she had caused with CPS. She has recently had a son and will now withhold him from being around me when she wants to inflict emotional pain on me. I've cried so many times over the years trying to get her to understand how much I love her, but this only makes her become agitated and angry. she has used me, her father and fiends to get what she wants and after she has sucked you dry emotionally and financially she will go on to her next victim. I have tried to warn people she comes in contact with, but they believe her to be a sweet young lady and look at me as though i am the crazy one. It hurts me to stay away from my daughter, but i can't take having my heart broken anymore. My biggest regret is not having a daughter to share my life with and missing out on seeing my grandson growp up. I pray he will be ok, beause to my daughter he is only another pawn to be used to get what she wants from others. GOD HELP ME! I want the love of my daugter and someone who will miss me when my final days have come.....

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  33. I like to say "God help me" but I am pretty sure it is for different reasons.

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  34. I truly hope that was a troll because it was pretty hilarious to read.

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  35. could you imagine if they came back and kept going? ugh

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  36. What is all of that shite? Is me spamming her own blog now?

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  37. Note the timestamps on previous comments.

    This post is nearly 2 years old.

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  38. there is a crazy one that is new

    November 19, 2011 3:52 PM

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  39. I had noted the time stamps. I wondered what it was. So its just reposted.? How trite. That's OK, we have plenty to talk about.

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  40. Medusa, yes that was backwards. Lol. I should start reading these comments before I post them.

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  41. She said she was going to start posting old ones a while back. I suppose she just changed the timestamp of the posts to bring them to the top.

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  42. Haha, I forgot this one. Classic insane parenting. Terror has always been such a keen motivator, no? I suppose she didn't consider that instilling the "rule by fear" mentality in a child could backfire spectacularly. Joy.

    Obviously the fact that my parents threw me in a pool to teach me to swim made me a sociopath.~

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  43. Do you ever make a tilde-free comment?

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  44. When I have nothing sarcastic left to say, I may just die. Sorry, señora.

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  45. Lol.

    And, by the way, it's 'señorita'. Miss Señorita if you're nasty.

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  46. Well that's a funny coincidence. The 3:42 anon posted her comment today, but before this post was renewed.

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  47. If you have a child who is born a sociopath, the "code" is the thing you must instill in him. The code is the set of behaviors he must live by, even though he feels no guilt or shame to propel him to do so. It originates in the mind and is cognitive, not emotional.

    I would use reward, not punishment. I would use positive reinforcement, find things he likes and reward him for the right ACTIONS, even if he felt no emotions.

    In that way, you could shape his code. I would be very careful not to abuse him, even though it would be hard because he would drive you crazy. This is probably one of the hardest challenges of all, for any parent. The parent would need a lot of help. If they could afford it, they should get a team of people to help, to take the burden off them. It is too much for two people to handle alone, imo.

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  48. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  49. Imagine a sociopath with a high-performing, honest and obedient child. Would he teach him the ropes as he knows them (mask my child, go after what you want at the expense of others) or would he teach him societal ideals and fair games to get ahead?

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  50. What would you socios say to a parent who dumps a bowl of cereal over a poor lad's head who can't finish his gigantic bowl of frootloops, cap'n crunch and lucky charms that HE MADE for HIS SELF, all by hisself lol.

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  51. "I believe my close friend's 6 yr old daughter is a sociopath.
    She has no remorse, for anything.
    Almost killed a family puppy,just looking at it as it yelped and struggled to breathe. Then skipped away humming when her mother found her."

    Skipped away humming? lol That was a nice touch ('The Bad Seed').

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  52. Say... the one written in all upper case, has the same weird grammar as Ami.

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  53. Ami Behind Every BushNovember 20, 2011 at 8:53 AM

    The spirit of Ami lives on in peoples paranoia.

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  54. I'm not be paranoid. It's a valid observation. I'd never seen anyone consistently use such odd grammar, until Erin.
    This post has the exact same grammar weirdness, and is consistent throughout the entire post.






    Anonymous said...

    IT WOULD BE VERY BAD TOO HAVE A SOCIOPATH CHILD.BECAUSE AS A PARENT ,AS A HUMAN BEING YOU GIVE ALL YOUR LOVE,AND DO EVERYTHING IN OUR POWER TO INSURE YOUR CHILD BECOMES A SUCCESSFUL,LAW ABIDING CITIZEN,TO RESPECT ,AND TO LOVE HIS FELLOW MAN. TOO FIND OUT THAT IT WAS ALL IN VAIN,THAT YOUR CHILD IS AN ABOMINATION,A MISTAKE OF NATURE WOULD BE DEVASTATING.YOU SHOULD END ALL CONTACT ,DROP THESE PEOPLE OFF ON A DESERTED ISLAND SOMEWHERE ,ANYTHING TOO RID THE WORLD OF THESE PESTS.YOU MAY SAY HOW COULD YOU SAY THAT BOUT YOUR OWN FAMILY MEMBER.I SAY TOO YOU,REMEMBER THESE PEOPLE CAN NEVER BE CURED,NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU LOVE THEM IT CAN NEVER BE RETURNED,THERE ENTIRE EXISTENCE IS A !! LIE !!.FOR EXAMPLE IF HEY SAW A LITTLE CHILD BEING RAPED AND MURDERED ,THEY WOULD DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO HELP THAT CHILD ,UNLESS IT MADE THEM LOOK GOOD IN SOME WAY,NOT BECAUSE THEY FELT ANGRY,AND SAD FOR THE CHILD.ONCE AGAIN I SAY SOCIOPATHS ARE MISTAKES OF NATURE,MUCH LIKE A TWO HEADED COW OR A SIAMESE TWIN .DO AWAY WITH THESE PEOPLE.EVERYONE I MEET ON A DAILY BASIS I LOOK FOR SIGNS OF THESE PEOPLE.AND HOPEFULLY,ONE DAY I'LL MEET ONE OF THESE ABOMINATIONS ,AND IT WILL BE TIME TO PLAY !!!,THNKS DRE

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  55. Could be Erin, I remember that in some of her posts she sounded like a lunatic when she got angry. She's a mentally very unstable individual. I think it's likely that she is the author of some of the anonymous posts.

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  56. Well if it was Ami, it's sounds like she is very upset that she gave so much to her child, and he turned out to be an abomination, and a total disappointment.

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  57. Leanne Leedom wrote this book. She was snapped by serial killer/photographer Rodney Alcala back in the 80's. You can find the pictures he took of her, if you look around. Also, she had a psychopathic husband.

    It's incredible how some people are vulnerable to running into these people.

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  58. If I would have to choose between Erin or Ukan to deal with in real life I guess I would choose Ukan, as Erin is so fucked up so could be dangerously unpredictable.

    Being a latent homosexual I guess Ukan could turn out to be a great fuck when he's drunk.

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  59. I wouldn't mind meeting her in real life. Just to see what her face does when she talks. Maybe it contorts into a bunch of confusing weirdness. My DID sister's face does weird shit when she talks. My younger sister says she tries not to look at her face when they're having a conversation, because it makes her feel like she's on acid.

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  60. So many personalities trying to come out all at once. A constant war of who gets to do the talking.

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  61. Her picture and article.


    http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2010/03/21/rodney-alcala-the-sociopath-next-door/

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  62. "First and foremost, it was Alcala who told me about the organization Mensa. He was very proud of his own “genius” and wore jewelry with the Mensa logo. Initially, I thought I remembered a neck medallion on a silver chain but having looked at pictures of Mensa items, I can’t say for sure if there wasn’t also a ring. Knowing what I know now, I believe it is entirely possible that Alcala was never a member of Mensa and that his claims were an example of pathological lying."

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  63. Being a latent homosexual I guess Ukan could turn out to be a great fuck when he's drunk.

    Men who want shite up their arses aren't all homos, David. I find it passing strange that a whore like you doesn't know that. All gay narcissists think they can make any straight guy turn. I don't pack fudge I have my wife put her two arms up my arse. She kneads our banana bread inside my warm bowels. On sundays she puts in chocolate chips. It's fuckn delicious.

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  64. Id love having you around me right now david. A prostitute at their lowest point in life that has a addictive personality? You're my favorite type of customer.

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  65. Lol. Indeed, many gays think they can turn a lot of guys or think a guy is gay for just being friendly towards them.

    I had a client only a couple of days ago who thought the friendly cop who stopped him for an alcohol control was gay just because he was friendly. Some see gays everywhere, it's pathetic.

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  66. I don't do illegal drugs Ukan. The only drugs I do are those that are corked, so I know where it was bottled.

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  67. What is your favorite wine, David?

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  68. Roses are red

    Violets are blue

    I have a gun

    Get in the van

    :D

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  69. Hello Beautiful Cheeks
    Hi Gary
    Hi Harv

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  70. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  71. My favorite wine is a good middle-aged red Bordeaux, I couldn't name a specific chateau.

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  72. @ DavidSocio01 do u ever read amis blog

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  73. it has come to my attention that most of the people on this web-site are sociopaths and therefore can't discuss the topic without being "cold blooded" robots. instead of insulting the people who have to live with you; why don't you try to explain to us who aren't like you why yoy are like you are...... are you brave enough for this challange or do you want to keep hiding behind your mask of normality?

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  74. Wow. That challenge just MIGHT work. Who'd have thunk it? All you have to do is tell them they are not being brave, and they'll take their masks off. It's genius really!

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  75. @anon 12:53
    Yes but there hasn't been much activity.

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  76. @DavidSocio01 can a sociopath miss someone / do you ever miss her being around i wonder if they can feel loss

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  77. @Anon 12:54
    I'm absolutely outraged that you would call me a "cold blooded robot". How dare you insult me like that dear sir or madame, how dare you!

    May I please remind you that I do have feelings! I sometimes get very upset when I get dirt on my church's shoes while squashing an empath.

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  78. @anon 120
    I cannot speak for all sociopaths, just for myself. I honestly cannot say I ever miss someone, no. 'Friendships', ... are always temporary. People come and go into my life, but so far I couldn't name one person that I have ever missed.

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  79. DavidSocio01 are you able to feel passion

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  80. http://erin-wannatalk.blogspot.com/

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  81. "they might not be able to ever love you the way a meek little thing would, but the kid will take care of himself"

    TRANSLATION: They won't care about you, or your feelings, and they'll do whatever the fuck they like without care for the consequences.

    "would it really be so bad if your son or daughter was a sociopath?"

    Yes. Here's what raising a sociopathic child is really like:

    ttp://raising-a-psychopath.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2008-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&updated-max=2009-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max-results=43

    Oh dear, looks like I'm a prejudice asswipe. FUCK YOU, ME.

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  82. I guess I don't feel passion no, probably because I'm too rational.

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  83. Wow. How fucking dull it is. No wonder she still spends all her time over here.

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  84. masks are there for a reason; without them, one could not survive. you have seen under mine.

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  85. you perceive MY TRUTH as insults because you reject MY TRUTH

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  86. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  87. "There is something inherently more repulsive and unbelievable about a female sociopath. Women by nature are preprogrammed to learn empathy and care-taking, the antithesis of sociopathic behavior. Indeed, one of the best indicators of sociopathy in a women is seen when the woman fails to care for her own child. It would seem then, that we would all be revolted by a female sociopath"

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  88. @anon 2:07
    Are you that retarded you didn't notice I was just laughing at your stupid remarks?

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  89. I let you see; I wanted you to see

    *honesty*

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  90. From Lovefraud

    "There is actually very little research data available regarding sociopathy in non-criminals and in women. The little research that has been done reveals that sociopathy in women entails two or three main features that are similar to those found in men. Namely, female sociopaths lack empathy and enjoy manipulating and exploiting others. Violent and impulsive behavior is less common in sociopathic women. This fact may make them more dangerous, as they more easily blend in with the rest of society.

    The key traits of sociopathic females

    A recent study of adolescent girls in detention performed by Crystal L. Schrum, M.A. and Randall T. Salekin, Ph.D. of the University of Alabama and reported in Behavioral Sciences and the Law, revealed the core qualities that best described young female sociopaths. The teens were callous and lacked empathy, had a grandiose sense of self worth and were conning and manipulative. They were also likely to engage in impersonal sexual relationships. Importantly, the researchers revealed that female sociopaths did not necessarily have “shallow emotions.” Again the lack of impulsivity and shallow emotions may make a female sociopath more difficult to spot."

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  91. "The public and the courts are sympathetic toward female sociopaths

    The case of Michelle Drake also illustrates something else about female sociopaths. The courts are more likely to go easy on them. This attitude of the courts may reflect the fact that many people excuse the behavior of female sociopaths and feel sorry for them. Look at the cases of women in the news lately. We don’t know if the women involved are sociopaths, however, these cases do illustrate the double standard that exists in how we judge female as opposed to male antisocial behavior. Several women teachers have been found guilty of sexually exploiting students. They were treated very leniently for the same crimes that would have put a man in jail for many years."

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  92. http://raising-a-psychopath.blogspot.com/2010_04_01_archive.html


    That he was masturbating, even in his closet, is no big deal. This is completely normal behavior for a 13-year-old boy. That he used a lubricant is also no big deal. However the fact that he did so shortly after peeping at my wife in the bathroom does raise some concerns. The fact that he also urinated and defecated on the sheet and t-shirt, and then hid the soiled linens under the clean ones, raises even more concerns.

    But the most concerning thing to us is that he’s learning to blend in.

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  93. contd.

    Apparently if you take a kid who can’t (won’t) control himself unless he’s watched 24/7, and put him in a place where he is watched him 24/7, you cure him! Amazing! And apparently if you ask him why he’s behaving so well, and he says, “Because someone is always watching”, that doesn’t offer ANY clue to how he will behave outside of that situation.

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  94. There is a huge double standard for male and female sex offenders.

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  95. I sense a lot of hate up in here today.

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  96. Lucas is not shy, except when trying to hide his actions. But once he realizes we know he did something, he will describe it in detail. He freely told the police about how he broke into our neighbor’s house, searched through her underwear, found a digital camera, and took a picture of his aroused penis.

    As for “Impression management”, when we took Lucas to court for the first time, he said he was nervous. We asked him what he was nervous about. He said he was afraid there would be TV cameras and all his friends would see him. Surprised by his answer we asked if he might be afraid of being taken away in cuffs and shackles (like another boy we saw there). He said no, he wasn’t worried about that. That would be fine as long as his friends didn’t see.

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  97. sounds like mini-UKkan to you?

    Two days ago Lucas attended his first hearing in juvenile court. He broke into our neighbor’s house, rifled through her underwear drawer, got aroused, took pictures of his aroused penis with their digital camera, and left it for them.

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  98. This sounds a little like me. I had very strong sexual deviance as a boy.

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  99. Oh, this post does not sit well with me at all!

    I have two children. My oldest is 23, who shows signs of lack of empathy at times that is downright chilly.

    My daughter is only 2 1/2 years old, and while her father is quite possibly a narcissist / sociopath, may have a predisposition, but thus far is a very emotional, tender, sweet little thing. However, I cannot rule anything out just yet, as she is still developing.

    First...how on earth could you possibly label a small child a sociopath?? ALL children are sociopathic in nature! Empathy is actually not learned until around 6 or 7 years old & then develops from there. Small children are selfish, have little remorse (unless they are caught), a self-pleasing, violent little creatures. They have no concept of other's emotions, and they do not understand another's motives outside their own. If they are happy, then they assume everyone else is happy. If they want something, they assume that mom or dad will supply it.

    To use a natural fear to condition a small child is simply repulsive and abusive to me.

    There are ways to minimize a predisposed tendency towards sociopathic behavior, and surprisingly it is to become EXTREMELY sensitive and empathetic to your at-risk child. However, to avoid being manipulated, you set up clear boundaries with natural consequences.

    If you have set up a discipline program that makes the child identify YOU as the punisher, you will certainly draw a dividing line between you and your child. Something you do not want, especially if you suspect your child might be prone to sociopathy.

    You must be neutral in your approach to discipline and implement natural consequences whenever possible. This way, the child identifies his/her ACTIONS with the consequence & not you. You then minimize your risk of the child seeing you as the enemy, and help him to analyze his behavior in relation to consequences.

    In response to a comment about a child peeing on the couch. The parent would spank a child for touching a hot stove??? Wouldn't the pain of the hot stove be enough? At that point, you comfort the child and make yourself the source of alliance. You could have a discussion about how touching the stove hurt. And if my child peed on the couch, well she would have to clean it up each and every time. If she continued to urinate and defecate on herself, I would have her sit in her own waste until it became uncomfortable for her, so that she would then start identify her own actions with how it is uncomfortably effecting her.

    Geesh, I could go on and on about this. But, bottom line, I believe with ALL children, you discipline and raise them with respect and mutual trust. With a possible sociopathic child, I would think the worst thing you can do is lose their trust. As far as encouraging them in their live's goals...there can be many ways they can find fulfillment in their career. I would try to support my child in being a high functioning sociopath. A career that requires a level of emotional detachment, such as a surgeon, attorney, police officer, psychiatrist,etc.

    It's about respecting your children, not using fear, guilt, and threats. Once your kid knows that you are firm, you got their back, and that your are ultimately on their side regardless...I think it is completely possible to raise a sociopath who will love you in the only way they know how...with loyalty and devotion.

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  100. "First...how on earth could you possibly label a small child a sociopath?? ALL children are sociopathic in nature"

    Psychopaths as children display extreme pathological behaviors compared to a "normal child"
    Even in comparison to the worst baddest kids, the Psychopathic child's behavior will be worse.

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  101. @ 2:48

    Give me an example.

    I find it very difficult to believe that a three year old can be pathological outside the normal range. Three year olds by their very nature ARE pathological.

    But I'm open, so hit me with an example.

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  102. 'It's about respecting your children, not using fear, guilt, and threats. Once your kid knows that you are firm, you got their back, and that your are ultimately on their side regardless...I think it is completely possible to raise a sociopath who will love you in the only way they know how...with loyalty and devotion.'

    People like you are the ones who get victimized by sociopaths. Empaths don't see bad in others, especially loved ones. A sociopath does not care about their family. If anything they will despise them.

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  103. bizylizy, you just buzzed, missing the point of differentiation between rearing a child versus a little pathology bag

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  104. I remember this article and the article you link to. Rather "scary", but not so completely unlike how many psychopaths actually do get treated in childhood.

    It's very common to have had an overly strict upbringing.

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  105. I agree with Bizy
    I know a girl who was born a sociopath. She never had empathy. Her mother was very loving to her. Her mother was firm but NOT abusive, ever. Today, the girl has a code to which she adheres. She wants to be a credit to her mother and make her mother proud. She loves her mother in the only way she knows how, not from emotions, but from devotion, the outgrowth of the devotion she was shown.

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  106. @2:54 All my research on sociopathy has pointed to the fact that sociopaths do not love in the traditional sense. They do, however, feel a sense of loyalty and protectiveness in the best case scenario. And yes, I agree with you in one respect. Your children will despise you especially if they equate you with guilt, punishment, and fear. My perspective is that you minimize this, while providing very firm boundaries.

    @ 2:55 I respectfully disagree with you. The lines are blurred when they are infants, and you are thereby raising a child. If you know you have a child at risk, you reinforce an alliance based on firm, natural consequences. You take out as much emotional drama as possible, as this will only cause the child to resent you. You make yourself the fair and impartial judge. This approach works well with both "normal" and sociopathic children.

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  107. I had the opposite of a strict upbringing. I was allowed do anything I wanted.

    My dad was the strict one, but he was too aloof to care what I was doing all the time. My mom was too empathic for her own good and i have taken advantage of that my whole life. My dad was unaware I was abusing her.

    When my mom would deny me something as a child, I would threaten and glare at her until I got my way. That's probably why I don't understand what the word no means.

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  108. 'They do, however, feel a sense of loyalty and protectiveness in the best case scenario'

    hahahahaha.

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  109. Thanks for this example, Monica.

    On the flip side, my narc/socio ex despises his mother, because she used guilt and emotional blackmail. I've learned much by what I see around me,experienced, and from what I've read.

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  110. Bizy, you have no idea what a sociopath means.

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  111. Harv,

    I am assuming you are sociopath? First, you perception of your father being aloof is key. There was no alliance that was established. And your mother sounds like the typical mother of every sociopath I've ever read about. Emotional, too empathetic, a pushover.

    It's no wonder you resent your parents. You had no respect for them, and furthermore you never felt that they totally and without judgement understood you.

    As far as your second comment. Again, under the best case outcomes, I've researched that this is the best you can hope for in a sociopath's ability to "love." I've read this in ME's personal account, as well as other sociopaths. The worst case outcome, I imagine, would be your situation or something similar.

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  112. You are welcome, Bizy. I agree that there are all forms of abuse. Manipulation and excessive guilt are abuse, too.

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  113. Harv,

    I have an idea.

    But yes, an empath trying to explain empathy & a sociopath trying to explain no empathy, is as futile as a blind man and a seeing man fighting over what colors look like.

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  114. "On the flip side, my narc/socio ex despises his mother, because she used guilt and emotional blackmail"

    I would imagine most people who were blackmailed and abused by a parent would despise them. That's normal. I didn't destroy my mom because she did anything to me. I did it simply because I wanted to.

    I'm an aggressor. I'm not a victim who gets attacked everywhere they venture.

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  115. Harv,

    What would you suggest then?

    How would you suggest raising an at-risk child?

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  116. why is eden formerly a pretty chick now a gravestone?

    now only david is pretty anymore in his picture he looks exactly like hollywood actor sexual symbol matt demon lol

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  117. I'm not sure. I've seen how certain men with strong father figure act and I'm glad I didn't have one. It's as if they don't even have their own worldview.

    They continue to repeat these stupid values their father thought them.

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  118. Harv, I love you, buddy, but don't have a kid, man. Even Frank does not do that great of a job.

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  119. @BizyLizy

    Harv is just a character here. Anything he says, is probably made up.

    The List

    Frank
    Monica
    Harv
    Gary
    Caroline

    Did I miss anyone?

    They are the local puppet show. They are something to play with when there is nothing better to do.

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  120. There IS a fake me, but today It's really me. Anyone with half a brain can differentiate between us both.

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  121. Thanks Eden,

    It's been a while since I've participated in the comments (over a year?), and it seems to have digressed quite a bit.

    There used to be some semblance of intelligent dialogue among commenters. I was sensing much futility in my conversation with Harv, much like talking with a pouty 12 year who answers every thing with "your mama!" Thanks for the head's up.

    Is there a list of commenters who actually bring substance to the table?

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  122. You're just a puppet show Harv.

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  123. Frank, how you doing today, hun? It seems a bit tense here **kisses**

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  124. they may even be ME himself/herself to manipulate us before he crushes us with magnifying glasses!

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  125. @Eden, it is great that you are the official voice of who counts here and who doesn't.

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  126. Eden is a nobody. I'm not going to even waste my time with it.

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  127. @Bizy

    Stick around for a while. I'll let you make that judgment call on your own. What brings you back?

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  128. Who are the intellects Buzy? The fools who agree to your skewed and rosy definition of psychopathy? Psychopaths can be loyal? Really? Ha ha.

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  129. *intellectuals fuck my ipad!

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  130. i need someone to rock me to sleep :(

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  131. Okay, first, I changed into something more comfortable. Took a while to find my old Google account. Just so we're clear that I am BizyLizy & not a poser.

    I've always lurked. It seems though in the past year the site has grown exponentially, and I began withdrawing from comments because they became so very ridiculous.

    With personal issues going on in my life, I found that I would love better feedback and so I tried again to launch into dialogue. But I am again discouraged by the freak show that seems to go on within the comment section, with a few exceptions.

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  132. It's worth getting any kid you're worried about checked out by psychologist or neurologist. Behavior problems, lack of empathy, aggressive meltdowns can often turn out to be something else, like autism. (I noticed a comment earlier about lack of eye contact, which fits right in with autism.)

    Also I imagine that emotional regulation therapy and theory of mind therapy would be just as useful for sociopathy as for autism. It's done wonders for my daughter with Asperger's.

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  133. *intellectuals fuck my ipad!



    lmao

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  134. Buzy, why did you say that sociopaths can be loyal? That was dumb.

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  135. Bizy, just ignore the idiots. I do.

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  136. You cannot, by definition, diagnose any child as sociopathic, only conduct disordered, and only if their behavior is not in line with developmental norms. This is merely a child throwing a tantrum. Really all 2 year olds are sociopaths when you come right down to it!
    In my experience sociopathy is caused by extreme abuse/neglect - especially with a maternal figure and starting at a very young age.

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  137. @ 4:09

    I have read numerous times on ME's site that some degree of loyalty is the best one can hope for in a sociopath. This is the best case scenario.

    Basically, as a parent, you have to make yourself "useful" to your child. If that means essentially building an alliance with your child, so that they trust you & will not judge them, then that's what you do.

    As I said before and repeatedly (I can use shorter words), this is the best case scenario.

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  138. Much speculation has been placed on Bundy's early formative years, though little is definitively known. However, in a 1987 court competency hearing, a psychologist who had interviewed Bundy related an incident involving his Aunt Julia in which she woke from a nap to find that her body was surrounded by knives, which someone had placed around her while she slept. When Julia looked up, she noticed her nephew, Ted Bundy, standing at the foot of her bed and smiling. Bundy was three years old at the time.

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  139. Thank you Susan!

    Can you also address at what age a child begins to develop a sense of empathy, and at what age it becomes more fully developed?

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  140. "I have read numerous times on ME's site that some degree of loyalty is the best one can hope for in a sociopath."

    You fucking idiot. A sociopath scoffs at loyal people.

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  141. Bizy I think you have the right idea.

    The people who say a kid can't be a sociopath are correct. Calling a kid a sociopath is like removing every single quantum path the kid could have taken in life and removed them all but one. As I keep saying forever and ever, empathy is LEARNED and that doesn't usually start happening until the kid is over 5.

    Eden, I had just woken up and felt like pissing on someone.

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  142. Speak for yourself, Harv. You are not the official spokesman for sociopaths. No one person is!

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  143. Harv,

    Try to pay attention, dear.

    I was referring to the sociopath himself exhibiting a measure of loyalty. Again, best case scenario.

    And as I am sure you are speaking for yourself, you do not exhibit these traits of loyalty for anyone, and therefor are not the best case scenario.

    I get it. Do you? Can we move on?

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  144. Harv, shut up. Even UKan agrees that loyalty is a factor.

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  145. i had a terrible childhood as well they tried to bully me at school when i threw a knife at them and hit a pencil on this one guys scalp they left me be but they still didnt let me be part of their groups i was very lonely im the real victim here

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  146. @Medusa

    I would think you'd need to take a bigger piss than that, after sleeping.

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  147. "Speak for yourself, Harv. You are not the official spokesman for sociopaths. No one person is!"

    I never claimed to be. Every other sociopath and psychologist would agree with what I said. Go to lovefraud and pretend you had yourself a loyal sociopath. They will laugh at you.

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  148. I KNOW a loyal sociopath----to her mother---so your paradigm is broken.

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  149. Alright.

    Sylvia Plath is for high school emo goths.

    Put yer fucking bell in a jar, whatever, I'm having broiled brains for dinner.

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  150. Every other sociopath and psychologist would agree with what I said.

    What sociopath and psychologist?

    Your brush is too big.

    They may not be loyal to who they are supposed to be, in terms of the other person's role in their life (dad, mom, lover), but they ARE loyal to those who serve them or benefit them, whatever their role may be, as long as they continue to get benefits from such loyalty.

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  151. Medusa,

    Exactly. Most young children who exhibit extreme lack of empathy as well as pathological behavior, actually have attachment disorders.

    As the good counselor stated, children by their very nature are sociopathic. ME even did a clever post on this a while back.

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  152. This place is flooded with estrogen today ;)

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  153. @Medusa

    It was from a conversation I had with Bizy, yesterday. She mentioned her. I put up a quote from her gravestone. We had a talk about art and madness. I put up the picture of her gravestone on my blog.

    It's not complicated, and your statement about high school emo goths... is so very high school. Snob. ;)

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  154. "Go to lovefraud and pretend you had yourself a loyal sociopath. They will laugh at you."

    These are victims of the sociopath. Again, not within the inner circle of a sociopaths chosen alliance.

    A high functioning sociopath will likely have an alliance. These are people he trusts that will not judge him, will likely give good advice, will likely not play a victim role in the socio's life.

    Obviously, you are not high functioning and do not fit this mold.

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  155. Yeah yeah, I know.

    I only said it because it sounded like you wanted more piss.

    I actually didn't get around to reading the Bell Jar until a couple years ago.

    I purposefully avoided Plath growing up.

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  156. medusa seems very wise i feel she is absolutely right in whatever she is saying it is important to be loyal if it gives ya the benefits

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  157. I wasn't speaking about loyalty with an underlying ulterior motive. You couldn't even define that as loyalty.

    I am speaking of the self sacrificing loyalty, in which one gains very little or nothing from. Sociopaths are incapable of this kind.

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  158. Lol, he used Lovefraud to back up his claims.

    There's no way you are ever going to be taken seriously here, Harv.

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  159. This is the only place you will be taken seriously.

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  160. I wasn't speaking about loyalty with an underlying ulterior motive. You couldn't even define that as loyalty.

    How convenient. Why not?

    I am speaking of the self sacrificing loyalty, in which one gains very little or nothing from.

    Again, how convenient. We are talking about 'loyalty' not 'self-sacrificing loyalty'.

    Hence why Bizy is saying it's best to use a reward system, rather than a punishment system.

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  161. Trust is a huge factor in loyalty. If you have something to hide, and possibly something you value to lose... people who won't judge you, are trust worthy, and won't play a victim role; sounds like a rarity, and worth holding onto whatever your place in society.

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  162. I disagree, Harv. It is from knowing a girl who has self sacrificing loyalty to her mother. She was raised with values. She took her mothers values as her code. She was raised in a religious home and has these values as her code and follows them, even though she does not feel "normal" attachment to her mother, or anyone. She has devotion and respect for her mother. She would never do anything to hurt her mother. That is pretty great, for anyone!

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  163. Tommy is Medusa lmao

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  164. i disagree with eden ya can be loyal to the boss without trusting him one bit he will screw ya over if ya do

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  165. Harv,

    Go to Youtube and watch the entire interview series with sociopath Richard Kuklinski "The Iceman."

    This man is cold blooded, a sociopath in every sense of the word.

    And he describes a sense of loyalty to his own family, his wife and children. Said he'd take a bullet for them, that he'd murder for them. Straight from the horses mouth.

    And Mr. Kuklinki's history is not a good one. His childhood was filled with abuse.

    So, I will venture to say that under better circumstances, this type of loyalty can be fostered in a positive way in a sociopath.

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  166. @Buzy

    Why would a sociopath take advice when he thinks he knows it all.

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  167. "This man is cold blooded, a sociopath in every sense of the word."

    Obviously not if He'd take a bullet for his family.

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  168. @Tommy

    Let me clarify then: Trust plays a huge factor when it comes to Me being loyal. That being said, there are only 2 people I trust in my life, outside of my own children.

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  169. Did he really care about his family? I doubt it. He knew that his actions would have devastating affects on his family.

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  170. @ 4:55 This has been my observations from ME's site. A sociopath is always trying to avoid detection, and to fit in. ME seems to always be curious to see others' perspectives as a way to continually adapt his own behavior to benefit himself. Perhaps a more narcissistic sociopath would not do this. I am assuming this may be the case for higher functioning socio's

    @4:56 Go watch the video. The guy is obviously a sociopath. Whether he actually would take a bullet is not relevant. He feels a sense of loyalty that he does not feel for any of his victims.

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  171. True, the bullet-for-the-family comment is easy to say after the fact.

    But loyalty was enough to keep the family together for years and years, and to keep them from knowing about his activities for years and years, and he continued to support them for a really long time.

    Because it was beneficial to himself to do so.

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  172. @Buzy

    The best judge of a persons character is his/her actions. Talk is cheap.

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  173. @ 5:02

    I did not claim that he cared about his family. Of course he didn't. He's a sociopath who murdered for a living. He even abused his wife and his children. The point here is that he felt a sense of loyalty that went outside the range of the cold indifference he had for everything and everyone else.

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  174. All sociopaths are grossly narcissistic. I'll have you know that I read the sociopath next door and I am now a PHD status.

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  175. Beautifully said, Medusa.

    @ 5:05

    Exactly. The guy is a sociopath, and as Medusa pointed out, he expressed it the best way he knew how given the circumstances.

    I argue that if you have an at risk child, it is completely possible to raise that child into a higher functioning sociopath who is capable of using his traits that can serve himself and society, as well as foster this sense of loyalty.

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  176. lmao

    OH! First he mentions gross narcissism, and then claims a PHD status! I wonder if you even know just how perfect that was Harv...

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  177. Loyalty is a weird thing for me. I have never trusted anyone, so I guess I have never truly been loyal in that sense if it requires trust.

    I am loyal (shallow loyalty) if it benefits me in someway, even if it is just enjoying someone else's company. I do protect my assets in life.

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  178. It was a joke, but I really do feel I know more about psychopathy than anyone else.

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  179. Do you consider yourself a sociopath, Sweetcheeks?

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  180. Now that I think about it, it is not loyalty but tolerance maybe. There really is no such thing as shallow loyalty, right?

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  181. He cared very much about his family. In his own way.
    And i can't believe we're even having this argument? Children are sociopaths? Really? Like children are born with their personalities in tact somehow? How convenient.

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  182. I've been extremely loyal to my best friend for nearly 20 years, until very recently, but I've never really cared for her that much all this time, except in small moments.

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  183. Missus Kanney,

    This is what I've been saying all along. The entire post was disturbing to me, especially in light that I have a child who was fathered by a sociopath. Children by their very nature are selfish and so it would be dangerous to immediately label one sociopathic.

    However, there are personalities traits that children ARE born with. Or perhaps it is better say that they are born with different temperaments, with personality predispositions. Having had two children, I can say with confidence that they each literally came into this world with their own style of handling things. Immediately.

    My son was laid back, rarely cried, totally cool with everything. My daughter cried if you looked at her wrong, had to be constantly comforted, etc.

    I think the thing that is interesting with Mr. Kuklinski was his eventual interest into his own condition. I'm not sure that many criminal sociopaths are that willing to be so introspective.

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