Yes. Sociopaths can love with a selfish intensity that puts other love to shame. Their love is a devouring, consuming sort of love. When I love someone, I feel like I want to inhale them -- to literally suck out their soul. When I kiss someone, I try to do just that. Love may be blind for empaths, but a sociopath sees your faults clearly and loves you still. The sociopath's piercing eyes are not only unsettling because of their unwavering constancy, but because the sociopath's eyes can pierce through to your very soul, leaving you naked before his gaze. The sociopath's ignorance or disinterest in social norms means that he will not see you as the world sees you but how you truly are. They're free of the rose-colored glasses empaths falling in "love" often wear. I imagine this ability would be particularly appealing to those whose role in society doesn't reflect their true worth: members of disfavored races or socioeconomic backgrounds, the too-smart-for-their-own-good crowd, the still-waters-run-deep.
Sociopaths have a genius for adoring. Their understanding of your wants and needs matched with their charm and flexible personality mean that they can and will literally become the man or woman of your dreams. In fact, when I love, my first step is to gather as much information as possible about every aspect of the person's life in order to more closely resemble their ideal mate.
The closest analog to a sociopath's love is probably the love of a child: intense, accepting, selfish. And finally, like a child, the sociopath will be extremely loyal. A sociopath will never put you above himself, but he will readily put you above all others.
Hmmmmm.....
ReplyDeleteWould a sociopath ever fall in love with somebody by whom they were intimidated and later break it off because of the intimidation?
I wouldn't think of it as intimidation, more of a challange. but if the game got old and no new patterins grow it would become tiresome, it may be a powerstruggle but if both are going after that. I myself may get tired of not being in control( or being controlled willingly) it gets old if theres no change =\ it all depends on the socio, we aren't all the same. We prefer differint patterins (type of persons).
ReplyDeletePersonly I can't stand passive women *Laughs*
"in fact, when i love, my first step is to gather as much information as possible about every aspect of the person's life in order to more closely resemble their ideal mate."
ReplyDeleteIsn't that a LOT of effort to sustain that? Especially when it is not engined by limerance and such natural and effortless energies? An earlier post of yours said sociopaths get into relationships not for love but for things like money or sex or comfort (and I thought don't everybody but that's another issue) and posts by other sociopaths also suggest a kind of detached attachment not for the person but for the benefits of the relationship. Although in your post you did say, sometimes for a while sociopaths kid themselves they are in love. I suspect sociopaths are just as capable of the limerance kind of fiery love but not the oxytocin kind of love-the longer-term, stable companionate sort that usually kicks in a little later for neurotypicals.(I read in a paper about aspies that they too have brain wiring that's not conducive to oxytocin). So that post limerance, there is no 'natural' engine and its all a rational detached decision if one wants to remain in a relationship. GOD, the effort!! Well, in a way, it's a bigger love then.
-mk
Honestly, I feel like the first response to my original comment was just pathetic/sad.
ReplyDeleteThe thing is, when what the next "anonymous" poster referred to as limerEnce (no "a's" in "limerence") is being initiated by a sociopath (and I have a hard time believing that a sociopath could even develop limerence, much less oxytocin-based long-term love), for the sociopath it is ONLY a game. It is not out of concern for the object of their conquest - they want them for themselves, they don't want to give equally. For the sociopath, it is a GAME. For the other person (assuming they're not a sociopath), it is NOT a game. I think that people who PLAY GAMES in love, as opposed to people who are more emotionally healthy and less likely to play games, often end up WINNING because for them, it's all about strategy, whereas for the other person, they are driven crazy, assuming they fall for the sociopath's game, and they commit all sorts of errors. I've seen this before, actually.
The sad fact is that the sociopath never truly loves and is arguably never loved. The rather uncommon, rather giving and forgiving and compassionate person may actually care about the sociopath, knowing what they are, hoping that intense loyalty and therapy and affection and caring will somehow start to lift the sociopath out of sociopathy. I do think it's possible. But if it doesn't happen, then the sociopath, although possibly an abuser, is the one who really loses, because they never do realize what it means to be HUMAN. They do not experience the synergy of love in a caring relationship. And they will most likely be surrounded by people too clueless to pinpoint who they are, or people who fear them, or people who despise them. They will *not* be truly, wholly, and fully respected and loved by anyone, excepting only the most saintly, loving people around (who love just about anybody, anyway).
In other words, if you trick somebody into loving you, they don't actually love you. You have only grabbed onto an illusion.
And passivity can often be a manifestation of laid-back confidence. Aggression can often be a manifestation of an intensely needy person who is deeply insecure.
@Milo: I suppose neither of us can say for certain if a sociopath feels limerEnce or not-that would be the stuff of actual research with responsive sociopaths. But I still wish to make clear how I came to that, as weak as the 'evidence' may be .
ReplyDelete(1) Online forums being anonymous can be assumed to be revealing 'what is'-and amongst the scores of confessions/revelations I've read, while there have been many sociopaths saying 'I have never felt the searing kind of love' there are also a few who have claimed to love rarely and ephemerally (spell right?). M.E. herself/himself said something to the effect of 'for a period sociopaths may even convince themselves they are in love' in a previous post which too seemed to suggest passing love. (in that post her/his main thrust was sociopaths can't love, so he/she can't be lying to seduce some reader, sorry M.E. for 'analysing' your motives in your own blog :(, but hell you taught me most of what I know about sociopathy anyway)
2) VIVIDLY remember Bundy's biography, where he was quite intensely into this chick (but yes, there was a game element which I'll come to)
3) My own experiences with a professionaly diagnosed sociopath and a suspected sociopath (I too am a scientist and I label responsibly, so! Grrr!)
But more interesting is what sociopaths might mean when they say they are in love and if that is like limerence.
a) Limerence itself has a game aspect-it is supposed to be sustained in that balance between reciprocation and non-reciprocation (like Desai says 'love is in that gap between desire and satiation', typical limerence!) My current love interest (the sociopath suspect, let's call him R)is saying alarming things like 'discomfort makes the pleasure, all the more pleasurable' and 'it is death that we have to thank, for making life so precious'. Socipaths are good at playing with people's ardour and/or pleasure to these rules, but I also think they themselves are susceptible to it. A biographer read Bundy's intense pursuit of his disinterested love-interest and his sudden cut-off after she succumbed as though he was disappointed with the love in hand-once it was in hand (limerence drops when mutuality is acknowledged)(apparently, Bundy's killing spree started shortly following this apparent disillusionment).
b) So the game aspect in limerence is linked to the feeling aspect. Once the games are over, unless the companionate oxytocin stuff hasn't kicked in, people part. And for people who feel that intensely and who prize that, the companionate thing can be 'boring'in relation (I know...sad.). My ex (the sociopath) says 'hell I wish it wasn't all or nothing for me' (and I believe him, I get him, I think sociopaths feel/felt too much but that's another theory). So anyway point being, I suspect sociopaths feel (well my ex did in ways)-if intense interest and obsession with the love-interest can be called feeling.
c) Yes, but concern for the other was absent-the wonderfully apt analog M.E. talks of-the intense selfish love of a child. My ex tried to hide it, but there were enough slips to suggest he was EXTREMELY possessive. He also hurt-where he wrongly (or maybe rightly) suspected my reciprocal interest was waning (another limerence marker)-he admitted his feelings of insecurity on a few occasions, afterwards but which I knew of anyway (and the funny thing was I too mirror people's expectations of me, I think uber empaths do, so when he expected insincerity, I'd actually BECOME insincere, so it became a dwindling vicious cycle kind of thing).
But ofcourse everyone knows limerence isn't REAL love :), it's selfish (personally, I LOVE how it makes me feel)passing.
As to loving a sociopath knowing them to be one, you are right, all love is selfish and since the cost benefit won't pan out well for them, most people won't love sociopaths but most empathic people are also not 'truly, wholly and fully respected and loved' by anyone.
-mk
I found this because a friend showed me...I think she's one of you, anyhow,I got AS so I don't mind if you all people are,whatever,I find it very appealling how this "work" for you.
ReplyDeleteVery
I didn't read the comments so I might be repeating something.
ReplyDeleteThis is how I would say that I operate, I match EXACTLY to how you put it--which I find somewhat eerie.
However, it seems all psychology literature considers 'sociopaths' to have 'incapacity to love'.
This blog--to me--seems to redefine the whole concept of a sociopath and I seem to fit to it for the most part.
The real question is, is this blog a correct redefining of the concept or is it a wrong one?
Who knows.
Sociopaths do not love. You are describing another type of social deviant personality, one where the traits overlap to some degree with those exhibited by a sociopath.... but you are NOT discussing a sociopath here.
ReplyDeleteThe human condition takes many forms, there's a much wider population of types within the spectrum "normal" and sociopath.... most of which probably aren't classified... and some may be subsets of others.
The difficulty is .... there are also a great number of people with low-self esteem, and a desire to have some type of unique / mysterious identity..... so self-diagnosing over the internet can be appealing for them. The vast majority of you are NOT medical professionals, which isn't to say that we can't be self-observant.... but some of you really need to stop e-diagnosing after reading some blog posts and perusing wikipedia.
ps - this is not a personal dig on the author of this blog, you have some interesting posts that make it worth reading... you should caution your readership against its 'me too' mentality though.
Best
-PB
Considering so few can be actually qualified clinically as sociopathic..I think we have some seriously lost people here who would like to identify with sociopathic personalities without actually being one themselves. Simply saying that you do x, y or z and equating it to sociopathy does not mean you are sociopathic or even have sociopathic tendencies. Grow up..and snap the fuck out of it...you do NOT want to be a sociopath!
ReplyDeletelol... oh man! I love reading the comments on here almost as much as the blogs. How some people seem to feel the need to post a whole blog of their own as their comment.How happy it must be to have so much knowledge of things, and the need to share this expert knowledge with such enthusiasm; for free... how noble we must be. :)
ReplyDeleteRecently & suddenly my two year relationship ended with a man I found out to be a sociopath. This mental disorder (its not a disease) is up there with physical abuse - constant lying, covering up, mental cruelty, stealing, using & debasing people even supposed "loved ones" like their child -- these type of people do not know what love is. Every action is solely self-serving and is about control. They create fantasies about who they are & where they come from -AND beleive them!
ReplyDeleteMy friends and family all knew me as a strong, confident, independent woman asked how could this have happened. I still ask why did he chose me and everyday I work at building the blocks of my life, my heart and my soul.
I do not agree. My boyfriend is a sociopath and he loves me but he cheats on me and lies to me and then calls ME a psycho when i confront him and then when I'm so heartbroken and I start to cry , he gets so angry I actually get scared. And he never feels remorse. He is manipulative and can convince anybody almost ANYTHING. He goes out and charms young girls by saying " If you would have told me you loved me , we would be together" but then comes home to me and says he only wants me . He got my name tattooed but yet he tells my best friend he wants to be with her ( and then tells me she is discusting and jealous of us )
ReplyDeleteHe cant handle it when I find out he cheated and somehow ends up turning it around on me. I dont know what to do anymore. I love him with all my heart and we have a kid together. if i only could be sure that he was capable of love, but from what i have read, sociopaths are incapable of loving,.
Your boyfriend 'loves' you I'm sure in the same way I 'love' my girlfriend, the only way we can.
ReplyDeleteOur role in a relationship can vary greatly, but what I think it really comes down to in a successful relationship with a sociopath is being aware of what they do, being able to get them to express what they do and why to you, finding some way to be OK with the basic aspects, and working with them to compromise so you both are getting something productive out of the relationship. Mutual understanding is key here, communication never stops being the pivotal factor.
I've gotten to the point where my super-empath girlfriend understands that I won't ever be able to connect with her on a strictly emotional level. She understands that I'm with her because she's a bi-polar super-empath and dealing with her keeps me on edge.
I've cheated on her with an ex-girlfriend early in the relationship, after which and a few months I told her about. She was saddened, but she knows why I did it and how it didn't change how I feel about her and what she means to me, which is what she fell in love with in the first place. Then there's the games we both know we play on each other and drive ourselves and each other crazy with.
Other than that, she's emotionally over-reactive because of her bi-polarity so my 'under-reactivity' drives her doubly insane. She's hesitant to share her emotions with me vocally because she knows that it doesn't impact me in the same way it does her, she wonders what's the point. I try to reassure her though, that while I don't emotionally connect to whatever problem she's/we're going through, I still need to hear the information in order to make some sort of difference.
I don't really know how long-winded all that was, but my point is:
If you want a sociopath to see things your way, you can't get them to understand or agree with you if you're using emotionally biased reasoning. You can't use emotions to express to us why you want us to do something. All we can do with your emotions is react to them, we don't feel or truly understand them. Rather, in order to make us understand where you're coming from, try to find logical and practical reasons for us to act the way you want us to.
As much control as we seem to have over our and others' little worlds, if you know what you're doing you can create an environment in which we are very easily controlled. It just may mean using our tactics against us.
Having said all that, my girl is the one reason I'm able to have realized any of these things, and for that, I love her.
I hope I've helped.
-Morpheus
Intense, selfish desire is not the same thing as love.
ReplyDelete--lurker
All love is selfish.
ReplyDeleteI personally like to think that the experts are full of shit when they say a sociopath can't love, being 'normal' people and all. I really doubt half of them have the mental capacity to understand their own head let alone a sociopaths.
As a sociopath i believe i LOVE my husband AND our girlfriend.
I really don't enjoy having to question what i think i feel about them in terms of love because of something I've been labelled as. I was pleasantly surprised to come across this. Thanks.
Lisa
Anonymous, you who wrote on September 12, 2009 at 6:53 - are you me? You are describing to a "T" what happened to me this past two months. I still do love this man terrifically, and yet he scares me half to death.
ReplyDeleteHe claims he loves me. I believe that is true. But I just can't be with him, because I'm certain that if I am, he will hurt me.
This has been the worst couple months of my life. Right now I just want him out of my life, but he's so obsessed with me - he won't go. Is that love? Or is that just a selfish requirement on his part to not admit that he lost someone who really was a "good catch" for him?
Thank you for writing about the capacity of a sociopath to have love. I am frustrated by how society paints us: cold, heartless, monsters who are completely without morals. Well, we're not. At least this is the view of a diagnosed sociopath who is trying to live in the civilized world. I have morals, just not like those of most other people. Laws are suggestions not absolutes. Some are realistic, others are not.
ReplyDeleteRegarding love, I love my boyfriend as I have never loved anyone. And it is intense, wild, passionate and amazing. Have I cheated on him, lied to him, manipulated him? Of course. Do I hold remorse for my actions? Not particularly. I just got tired of dealing with the repercussions of my actions and stopped some of the behaviors. But this brings us the fundamental question: What is love? Do we follow a biblical viewpoint (e.i. Love is not jealous, it bears all things, believes all things... Love never fails) or another viewpoint? Perhaps the acceptance of another person's flaws and assets and the enjoyment and desire to spend time with that person getting to know them?
Personally, I know I'm challenged in my capacity to be selfless with another person. I can give of myself, but there's always a motive. If you don't respond to my liking, be assured I'll manipulate you until I get what I desire. However, I find great enjoyment in getting to know people intimately (not always sexually).
"The sociopath's ignorance or disinterest in social norms means that a sociopath will not see you as the world sees you but how you truly are. i imagine this ability would be particularly appealing to those whose role in society doesn't reflect their true worth: members of disfavored races or socioeconomic backgrounds, the too-smart-for-their-own-good, the still-waters-run-deep."
I find this especially true. My boyfriend is also a sociopath. He determined long ago that love was not in the cards for him due to his sordid past and inability to connect emotionally. It's a logically sound situation: 2 people with an inability to fully connect emotionally, who both have pasts full of cold-hearted but well planned criminal activities and infidelity in romantic relationships. I love him and he loves me in that we accept each other for what the other is and are fascinated by each other. Granted, it's not the chocolates and roses love my parents have, but it works.
Some of the people I hold the dearest to me are sociopaths. I've often viewed my ability to get someone to open up to me and be emotionally vulnerable within minutes of meeting me is a double-edged sword. On one hand, I can shape the future interaction with ease. On the other hand, they end up thinking it means something much more than it does to me and get hurt by my lack of genuine emotional response. Again, not so much regret or guilt, more laziness toward dealing with their reaction.
With other sociopaths, I believe there is fear of rejection, inability to respond emotionally and the ever-present wall so many of us have built. We get sick of being rejected, of being labeled, judged or "fixed." When someone gets past the wall of a sociopath, they will typically find a deep pool of human emotions they didn't expect. These emotions are shown to few and are always followed by efforts to re-establish comfortable emotional distance. If you're not a sociopath and you had the opportunity to "swim in the pool," feel privileged, as few do. We're lonely, misunderstood people.
The self-imposed and societal ostracization of sociopaths fuels our need to act as we do. If people act as fools, they should be treated as such. Or so my brain tells me. Use cool logic to twist their minds up. Take from them when they leave the door open. When I interact productively with non-sociopaths, it reminds me of the limited capacity I have to be human. It reminds me why I want to be and feel human. Connecting with people and viewing them as humans, not as commodities, is the only solution I've found remotely effective.
The way love is defined varies from person to person. Some of the comments here from sociopaths seem to hold the belief that a loved partner is the person you most treasure, someone that is considered a favorite person. Someone that is able to evoke passion, intensity, thrilling and great emotions and many other great feelings. However, not everyone defines it that way.
ReplyDeleteI define love as two people who are most empathic towards each other. Empaths have the ability to truly feel what another person is feeling, while not exact in scope or accuracy, the emotion is always of the same color. I believe that the more I care about someone the more empathetic I can feel towards them. I am less likely to care about a boy dying in Africa as much as I am likely to care that my mother had a bad day.
I also believe that love is selfish. However, the selfishness of a sociopathic love, and the selfishness of an empathic love seem to be two different things.
From what I gather, love is selfish for sociopaths in the manner that, if something were to benefit the partner while being detrimental in any way for the sociopath, the situation would be manipulated to suit the selfish needs of the sociopath. Regardless of the emotions of the partner. It's fairly straightforward.
The selfishness of an empathic love is entirely different. Empaths very rarely can ever choose their emotions, or when to be empathetic about something. Most of the time the empathy is like a tide that takes the empath prisoner. Often times when it is most inconvenient. The way it is selfish is that our motivations for being focused on the other person is because there is something in it for us, when we do something for them it makes us feel better. When an empath is in love, they not only share the sorrows of their partner but also the joys. When they are happy we are happy, when they are sad, we are sad. To which point, if my mother is feeling sad, I am sad. Even if I don't want to be, I just can't help feeling that way. So, I might attempt to make her smile or give her a present or a hug. Then, I feel better too. It's the instinctual give and take that empaths are born with, which helps the world go round, so to speak.
So, yes, love is selfish. But selfish in different ways. Empathic love, is the symbiotic give and take of emotions, that normally benefits both parties for general happiness and effectiveness. Sociopathic love, seems more complicated, in that it seems be entirely self-servile, and more difficult to get a compromise, seeing as the symbiosis instinct is absent.
The key phrase is that the sociopath will "attempt to resemble" a person's ideal partner. they aren't the ideal partner, and since they have no concept of how to be right for anyone, they monitor, adapt themselves and ACT the part. sociopaths do not love. they do not make good partners. they are only acting. woe to the person who has not had a real relationship.
ReplyDeleteAh, the "anonymous" poster. You're obviously an empath who's been burned a time or two by a smooth criminal. Try dating some of your fellow empaths and leave the sociopaths alone. If you're determined to get burned again, you deserve what misery you suffer. If you're fascinated by what makes us tick, go back to school and become a sociologist. Or, if you're stupid enough to think you can earn a PHD in sociology by reading this forum, posting asinine comments anonymously and having even MORE sociopaths bring to light your ignorance and berate you for it, once again, you deserve your misery.That being said, I realized recently one of my favorite love songs is a very apt description of how sociopaths love. It's called "Stay" by Goldfinger.And if I'm sorryDoes that mean I have to change?'Cause change does scare meI'd like to know how I would feelAnd if you'll have meWell, I won't leave or make you hurtBecause I need youAnd I hopeYou'll let me stay... Let me staySo when I see youPlease understand the way I thinkYour smile, it heals meI never want to go awayBelieve I love youNo matter how selfish I getI know you'll help meThe way I feel I won't forgetLet me stay... So let me stayLet me stayI feel so cold sometimesI turn my faith to fearI feel so lost sometimesCan you find it?Can you find it?(I altered the lyrics by deleting some of the repetition.)It's very hard for me to conceptualize how empaths love. I believe it's human nature to try to be what one's perceived partner desires. I believe all humans do that to a certain extent.For the record, I don't become what my lover desires, my lover becomes what I desire them to be. A point of clarification for empaths out there who think it's the other way around. Because my needs are a whole lot more important to me than your needs seem to you. I may draw someone in with the window dressing allure of the perfect partner (typically, I observe them at a distance for a time before I make my move so that I figure out what motivates them and seduce accordingly. This gives me the opportunity to put together an escape plan as well for when I get bored or things get hairy). But ultimately the changes I'm willing to make are minimal, surface level at best. My motivation to change is external. When the pain of doing something becomes too great to me, I'll do something about it, regardless of whether or not it has put you through hell in the process. Because your emotions don't have a bearing in how my decisions are made.Nagging doesn't work with me. I've observed most sociopath to have a better ability to tune things out than empaths. Besides, when you nag, you are obviously wrapped up in my world and reality and unable to take your focus off me. I like negative attention, it's what I'm used to.From my experience, sociopaths don't change or become better partners unless they want to and unless they choose to. And we will do things that cause you to leave, still desperately wanting us if you push us too far or evoke repressed pain, fear, or shame within our psyche. You'll not realize you've done it until we disappear or drop some bomb on you and watch you react with a sense of smug satisfaction and an ice-cold lack of emotion.If you're an empath who doesn't find us to be a suitable match, DON'T DATE US!! Fairy tales don't come true. You won't succeed at turning a "beastly" sociopath into a "prince" with your kindness, love, and commitment to changing them. Be fascinated at a distance. Watch movies about sociopaths and love the characters. That is, unless you're a sadist. And if you keep getting in relationships with people who hurt you, you may very well be.-Wildchil
ReplyDeleteCorrection: I meant masochist as opposed to sadist in my post above.
ReplyDeletesounds pretty deluded
ReplyDeleteTrue, very true
ReplyDeletei'm pretty sure you're rong. sociopaths are often extremely narcissitic. They put themselves over all others.
ReplyDeletethey usually only are interested in sex, money, and power.
nothing else.
they do not feel love and don't really care about anyone.
ever.
Hi everyone,
ReplyDeleteI was curious if you could answer a question of mine regarding the male sociopath in a relationship.
My bf and I have been dating for a bit over a year and a half. He is 42 and I am 33.
I never though he was cheating till last summer, in August when I discovered that he was maintaining 4 relationships of the same intensity. Basically were were all his girlfriends, he took us all on trips, met his friends, family members overseas, etc.
The other girls dumped him. I decided to stay because I really want him. He also had a secret dating profile behind my back which he never took off, and he might have more.
I thought the cheating would stop, and thought it had all these months. I found his email open and there are tons of emails with this one girl(gorgeous girl), dating back 3 months now, and saying how he feels close to her, and asking her erotic questions etc, and how he is making plans with her to meet and all the things they will do together when they finally do (some are sexual as well).
He even mentioned that he "is dating a girl" meaning me I guess, and says to her "she is interesting really, but I always hung out with such girls, who knows what happens in the future haha"
Am I wasting my time? Do you think he will marry me?
HIs uncle told me he has been this way for 20 years having multiple relationships.
He also finds nothing wrong with his behavior, yet he lies a lot and has so much cheating history.
Does this sound like a sociopath?
and also, will he stop cheating?
I would appreciate some answers form both empaths BUT ESPECIALLY SOCIOPATHS.
Thank you,
Denise
denise,
ReplyDeletei am kind of in an odd mood tonight. i think i have probably had too much to drink or some sh** but i will answer your question since no one else has.
forget you care for him ... forget you love and take away all the crap about this guy that keeps you around and look at it logically. when he started dating you he was also seeing a bunch of other chicks right? but he didn't leave them for you ...they left him(smart girls) but you stuck around (not smart)he stuck with you because you were the only one left. now he is trying to rack up some more girls for his roster and you know it. he must not have taken great pains to hide it so he really didn't even care if you knew even though chances are it was going to hurt you ... hence he doesn't CARE about you. so even if he did plan to settle with you and ask you to marry him would you really want to be with some dude who doesn't care about you? maybe i don't want to know how it feels to be in blissful love because it seems it is also followed by blissful ignorance.
i do agree with the author here though about love coming only with purpose. i would say i am more conscitious about the people i choose to be affectionate to than probably the other people floating through love. i take alot of effort to express myself in a way that would be totally irresistable to the man for whatever reason i want but it doesn't really have that feeling. i need something... and i will get bored if i don't get it or i get it and that was all i needed. if that person loses his purpose in my life i have no problem moving on to the next best thing if the next best thing is a relationship or whatever.
i have bonds with .....no nevermind no i don't ... i don't think of myself as superficial though. i have good reasons for doing everything i do therefore the relationships are never all for not and i don't hate anyone. i don't hate empaths or apaths. they all at one time or another on an individual basis will serve their purpose for me. i don't objectify ... every person who i let have a piece of my life whether fake or semi-truthful who shares their innermost secrets with me and gives me all of them as long as they aren't complete dumba**es get a smile from me every now and again. there are some i respect and that is the best way i think i can get along with someone. the rest bore me. if i can carry on a lie with you and you are willing to play along with my story than you will quickly bore me or irritate me or make rouse my suspicion. if you attack me with questions i will turn and run the other way but if you just keep your mouth shut and do what i want you to do ... be who i want you to be with out trying to patronize me than we will get along famously.
Very interesting. Usually when I think of a sociopath, I'm reminded of Hitler and Bundy. I never knew that sociopaths felt love, I always thought of them as hollow shells of people.
ReplyDeletehttp://peopleology101.blogspot.com/
what is with all these comments about what a sociopath is and is not? This blog was written by a sociopath's point of view people so that means this is exactly what a sociopath would do when it comes to a sociopath
ReplyDelete"loving" someone...ya bunch of dopes! Half of ya probably arent even socipaths so how would you people named "Anonymous" know how a socipath would approach "love". where are yaz getting your information from? a website with defintition of a sociopath? Do not write comments in a blog if you have no idea what the fuck you are talking about. all these comments are bla bla bla...bottom line..what ever is written in these blogs is what a socipath is and none of you have anything intelligent to say about them unless you are one yourself PERIOD.
I really like your ideas about posting comments. i am a new for blog posting and i just like your thoughtful post.
ReplyDeleteWhen you realize the man you have loved for over 11 years is just a sociopath, that has always used you, why don't you automatically stop loving them? Can Faith, God, and Jesus cure/fix a socio path? What can I do to make sure none of our 3 children turn out to be a socio path like their Dad. My girls seem fine, but I worry about my 5 year old son.
ReplyDeleteI am confused, I understand that my husband may need me, or love the relationship for what I am to him, always there, but I wanna understand how or if he loves me. I have too long of a a story to tell, I would love to if some one would hear it, but now I am trying to figure him out.I have loved him for 12 yrs, and he left me hundreds of times, then fell back on me cuz I always saved him. I never knew what was wrong but I just knew something wasnt right. Just recently did I find out, he is not in my house, he is incarcerated, of course, racking up his criminal record. But in the past yr I have filed for divorce and he has said to me, tell me what you want, what to do, I know you will always be here by my side, and that is comforting. Now as I read his letters from jail, as I am the only one he has, no one else..he drained all of everyone he knows, i AM USED TO THIS BUT NOW AS i READ THE WAY HE WRITES ABOUT HIS APPRECIATION FOR ME, IF U WILL, IS BECAUSE I PROVIDE HIM WITH COMFORT, AND THATS WHAT HE NEEDS.Knowing that he could and has done everything in the world to hurt me and I have never walked away until 8 months ago, even then I didnt want to, I couldnt understand. I have to say I am a little relieved that he is this way, I thought all these yrs he was a fucken jerk. I always wondered why he would want to be with someone like myself, I obviously could be snowed by him, he could sell condoms to a nun, but I am very hard to deal with, I am loud and not boring at all, now I understand. He always said to me, that is the person that I love, the girl who would go tell anyone to go get Fucked. Excuse my vulgar words, but thats the truth. I am strong in all that I do, my only weakness is him, no one ever gets over on me, I take it from no one else, but he could talk me into anyhting, now that i understand and he is telling me tell me what u want me to do, I cant loose u, if I am able to tell him my limits, does anyone think we could live as a family? I dont want to change him, I accept him, always did, I cant turn off the way I feel for him, the love I have is unexplainible and he has nothing to offer me but "love" if that is what it is, or if it is his need for what I give him, but I am drawn to him, and cant let go. The whole world has told me to walk away, I have tried for 12 yrs, and I always feel the same, I am not afraid of much, what I fear is never feeling the way I feel when I am "loved" by him.
ReplyDeleteTo the anon comment just before mine about loving your guy for 11 yrs and your 3 kids, I have 4 and I have loved him for 12...I believe whole heartedly that only god can heal someone, but they have to need god, and surrender to him. The only time my husband acted normal, and appeared as though he loved us, in a normal way was the 3 months he went to church consistently. I am going to put my husband in a christian clinic, he wants to go too, and let go and let god. I would love to talk to u, I feel alone as though no one gets him, but I do, and I know how u feel. Maybe it would help us, u can email me, I dont care about bein anon, I dont care what people think, never have, aunyamarie@yahoo.com The only thing I can say is at some point in loving a sociopath, u have to LIVE the serenity prayer, and dont ever get ur hopes up, be a mom first, and if he wants help, he cant be fixed, but he can learn to re boot his thoughts as he has so much power over them. Constant therapy and resources, like another child, but do u, do I want my kids to end up living that? and being that? no, I am undecided. I have to say it is hard for me to accept that he will never change, I see someone no one else does, and it is as though I am imprinted in his memory forever, it is a twisted need in that he needs me in a way I dont understand, but in a wierd unsettling way, I need to be needed, and thats why I am drawn to him, that and other reasons. I dont know if that makes sense, but thats how I feel.
ReplyDeleteI've been in a relationship with a sociopath for 5 years, I recently broke it off and have never felt better.
ReplyDeleteThere was a time where I was SURE I wouldn't be able to live without him. He made life seem less dull, and I counted on him to make me feel like I was worthy and beautiful. He was intelligent and comforting, he was always there when I was sick or feeling vulnerable. I started to realize very quickly that the only reason he did anything nice for me was to manipulate me into "needing him" and to appear like the perfect human being to others.
All in all, I loved him. I think I could've been with him, but he was pathetic. He was an alcoholic, he constantly lied, he would say the most innapropriate things, and he could never hold a job. I have no problem with the "Dexter" type sociopath, but please, when you have absolutely NO purpose and you are not impressive in the slightest, being a sociopath is not a bonus to your personality.
Everyone loves differently, and I actually enjoyed a lot of the life views that my ex had. We spent a lot of time together, just talking and analyzing the world. If you're like me, however, you can NEVER get used to someone who is constantly lying, trying to get things for free, and not working for anything. I don't want to die in a cardboard box, with no possessions and no positive experiences.
Sociopathy is only acceptable if the person it afflicts is reasonably successful, otherwise move on ladies, not worth it. Not all sociopaths are these brilliant intellectuals, a lot of them are stupid idiots who are beneath the rest of us and expect to get something for free. In the end, I couldn't even look at my ex, I didn't respect him at all.
Why is almost everyone here a beaten housewife? What most of you describe your 'sociopath' boyfriends to do is done by every deadbeat husband on earth. The fact that your bf/husband was a sociopath seems to be completely diagnosed by you. Real sociopaths would NOT go into relationships because people BORE them. They would NEVER stay 12 years with someone, not even if society willed it. From what it sounds like, it just seems like you want to place the blame of a failed marriage in anything but yourself or your husband (like an average beaten housewife). No, he wasn't a sociopath...just deadbeat.
ReplyDeleteThe more I read on this blog the more I believe I am a sociopath, Instead of a highly functioning individual with Asperger's. For one I am very good at lying and keeping my thoughts to myself. I am nothing like the other Aspies I have met. They seem to have more difficulty in acting normal than I do. I have seen Psychiatrists ever since I was 7 years old and I do not believe any of them knew the real me. ( I accidently killed the family cat) Back then some suspected attachment disorders. I was diagnosed with ODD in my pre-teens and sent to a mental hospital for evaluation where I was my new psychiatrist first ever diagnoses of Asperger's Syndrome. The last time I saw her (a month ago) she said "I guess you have grown out of your asperger traits". I didn't think that was possible but I learned early on not to mess with psychiatrist, so I just shrugged and agreed.
ReplyDeleteThis site is full of a bunch of retarded attention whores.. "Ohhhh look at me I'm SOOOO different, ohhh I'm a sociopath I'm so different and scary give me attention plllzzzz"
ReplyDeleteWorse than Goths and Emos, COMBINED! WHoever made this site is a complete fucktard and needs to go back to school.
Alright, who forgot to log out and let their 13-year-old get on the computer again. I don't know people over 18 who use the word "fucktard." But I have heard my friend's 13-year-old daughter use it regularly. "You all are fucking gay," before you try to get taken seriously by adults, maybe YOU need to go back to middle school and learn actual words in the lexicon to insult us with instead of words you find on urban dictionary.
ReplyDeleten the end, I couldn't even look at my ex, I didn't respect him at all.
ReplyDeleteMay 5, 2010 12:01 AM
Exactly. Actually, I am disgusted with him. When I see how he talks, especially to women, and his pathetic excuses, I don't feel like eating, drinking, I don't feel like living. Life seems cheap and worthless.
I loved him. I loved him so much I'd die any moment at the time for him. I almost did. Loved our conversations. Loved his spontaneity until I realized that it's only one sided - he is so natural - in wanting everything for himself. I figured it out more than with his lies and cheating (for which he always found excuses) when I passively and positively let him talk and play music one day. For half a day, not once did he actually even think that I might have an idea or suggestion, that there should be a conversation other than my easy confirmations. It was all that pleases him. What he thinks is great is what truly is great. Others are what he says they are. Of course, he hides it well by petting the person's ego and by offering women a mirror.
Most women tell and show men exactly what they want. And he feeds them back their image, in which they fall madly in love. Extra aggression and seeking for pleasure and excitement makes them good lovers indeed. (But as if only sociopaths are good lovers! Give me a break!)
What people totally disregard while giving them credit in knowledge about others is that ALL THEY DO for most of their life is study analyzing others in order to trick them, so that they can feel mighty and powerful. WHile the rest of us work, go to school, study, play music, spend honest 'no using' time with family and friends, play with children, work with animals, volunteer, your sociopath is planning how to trick somebody or win something.
But the true awakening in pointing out who my little sociopath is came from his family member, who told me he was like a leach: sucking the blood out, and when there is no more, he falls off and moves onto the next well fed victim. I also heard that he tricked a woman from a third world country to sell all she has, brought her to America and had her live with him until she spent all her money - on and with him. Then he kicked her out. If you ask him, they had an argument, of course. Nothing to do with her money running out.
I had such a hard time believing this horror story. It's hard because they mix a bit of truth and good with the bad and damaging. How do you disentangle it after that? It was also hard because he seemed to care about me. It took me a while to realize that he'll always come back for two reasons.
One is that I immediately submit to him by saying: I love you. But I don't let him do whatever he wants. He feels like he won, because I told him the truth: I do love the rest of him. But it's an incomplete victory, because he doesn't get to fully use me. Just spoil a few days, while I still allowed him. However, as long as he knows I care - and he knows me that well - he will keep thinking he can milk me, bleed me, whatever you wish to call it, more. The more he's understanding that he can't, the less interested he is.
ReplyDeleteThe second reason is that intelligent people who do have potential for love are their favorite and most fascinating victims. They see there is something of value there. They want it. But they can't reach it. When they get it - meaning they get into relations with people who love them and are positive, caring people with moral values, they stand like in a dark hallway with ants in their pants not knowing what to do, where is the pleasure and benefit, and they run back to their familiar door, the one with low life, sad realities, borderline of homelessness and criminality, drunks, prostitution, lies and hard games, eating or being eaten. It seems unfair if there is more to life for somebody other than themselves. So they pull you down, they drag down people with conscience, values and purity of heart, by finding out their darkest stories or creating, tempting them into new ones. Now this basically positive person is theirs: the manipulator will forever have something to show, some mud to throw and say "look, she/he is no angel, little miss perfect/mr. righteous is scum too".
If he had positive opinion about someone, it's only from the distance. Or it's for someone powerful but not exactly gracious. Tycoons with suspicious background are his stars. Or women who manage to marry or manipulate such men. If my little sociopath ever had compassion (and he didn't for innocent starving children, if they are, say in Africa or South America), it was compassion for other like him. In some aspect, they had to be like him, something that makes him identify easily being in his place.
He thinks only he is natural and realistic, and the rest of us are just full of crap and pretending to be better than we are. Humans in his eyes are predators. They either die or become predators with time. It's hard to get him to say that, because he's very skilled. He knows what others don't like to hear. He knows what rings right or wrong, and he watches his language closely until he gets someone into his web. He likes to think it's his intelligence that wins him special treatment and that he's even alive, considering all that she has done. I told him it's not his intelligence. That Jewish children were not stupid or deserving their destiny because of someone else's past sins, but unlucky living in Germany in WWII, and that he is not so smart, but lucky. What I did not mention and kept to myself is that it is not so much his intelligence as to why he manipulates them, he's not the above being. It's his unbelievable ruthlessness. A normal person usually does not expect the truth to be so ugly. Until we learn. Then it's a different story.
Now I know the capacity for evil, but I did not become a slave to it, and I am still happy, functioning, respectful to others. He did not break my spirit in the end. He just lost a person who truly loved and accepted everything about him, except for his cold, cold heart. The loss is his, and the life is mine. He's falling to the bottom, as they all do. Like a snake biting everything around it, then biting and killing itself. He can't fool people forever, and living like that is a constant battle, constant search for new victims. It's a miserable, sad way to live.
I feel sorry for him. But I feel far more sorrow and compassion for his victims. Which is why the best thing I ever did was to cut contacts with him. Eventually it did become the old 'out of sight, out of mind'. I missed his company, but I love and respect life indescribably more. When I think of him, I just read pages like this one, and I feel so grateful to be out of it. Freedom never felt better. No sex, no pathological form of love and dependency can compare.
ReplyDeleteI'm sick of threads like this becoming pity pots for "victims" of sociopaths! So someone f****d you over. I'm someone with ASPD, but I've had more than my fair share of trauma. Sociopaths are victims who turn their reaction to victimization outward, not inward. How we deal with it isn't right and is hurtful. But I've discovered in therapy (I chose to do something about having ASPD, like get therapy), that there's a big difference between being victimized and being a victim. That difference is in what I choose to do about it. I can let my fear run me or I can face it. You can choose to let "being the victim" shatter your dreams and die inside or you can learn from it and grow stronger. Just as I can choose to let my victimization cause me to step on whoever I need to and hurt people because they hurt me or I can stop the cycle and find a different way to live my life. And I'll not take the easy way out anymore. Because conning, manipulating, and stepping on people is my easy way. Feeling my feelings and getting through them is hard, but worth it. That's the choice all humans have and it's entirely up to you what you want to do with that choice.
ReplyDeleteFor Sociopaths who are in love or are choosing a more stable permanent partner what type of reasoning factors into this decision? Is it based on love? Or is it based on how comfortable the "mask" is in providing the required illusion of a normal life? Is it more desirable to have someone that is easy to manipulate or docile and just go with your ebbs and flows or do you look for someone that understands you?
ReplyDeleteA sociopath is a normal person unmasked. The biggest lie you can tell yourself is that you are somehow more pure, real, or normal. Love is no different.
ReplyDeleteSocial rules are based upon "what if that was me" the sociopath simply breaks that rule time and time again. It's all selfish no matter how you look at it. Convincing yourself otherwise is also selfish. It's a defense. You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours.
No conscience, no emotions, no connection to other humans, no cure. Demons. If only I could identify and eliminate you all so those with souls were not devastated by your evil. Do humanity a favor and end your own lives.
ReplyDelete@wildchildegoselfopionatedselfishparasite
ReplyDeleteLets just get some facts right
1. You are not a human. I think the term is anti-human
2. You are a facade and your life a charade
3. You are bereft of all that makes a true individual
4. You will live and die an empty vessel
5. Whereas in the past hatred consumed me, I actually pity the likes of your kind.
6. Remember this universe works on cycles and your time will come and you will receive what you have already given, you shallow, nasty thing.
@emptyvessel..
ReplyDeleteI missed one off
You remind me of a giant puddle of piss... seeping into the ground. When its dried out, that nasty smell remains... This is the effect of your actions on the people you hurt and met... That's probably how they will remember you too
Just curious- is the "Anonymous" who posted the "Damn ye demons to hell" post and the "Empty vessel/selfish parasite" post(s), the same "Anonymous."
ReplyDeleteI just can't help but respond to such a passionately written post. I am flattered. Flattered that you take so much of your precious time away from saving humanity from the evil scourges of sociopaths to flog me specifically. Flattered that you allow me to rent so much space in your head. For being such an empty, worthless vessel, I compelled you to be filled with such vile feelings. I'm impressed.
Don't con yourself- you make me your mirror. All the nastiness and vileness you perceive to find in me (a person you've likely never met) is your how you feel about yourself. It's easier to project your self-loathing onto someone else. I'm flattered you chosen me. I have big shoulders and can take it. If the words I've written on this thread cause that much ire within you and you don't consider yourself to have ASPD, you might want to reconsider and schedule a psych evaluation this week. Because empaths, in my experience at least, don't feel the kind of inhuman hatred you describe.
If you're just someone spending hours reading threads about a cross-section of society you claim to hate, why the fuck are you wasting your time? Go get a criminal justice degree or do something constructive with your desire to "rid" the world of sociopaths. I dislike soccer moms and thus I don't waste my time on reading soccer mom blogs and posting hateful things. If you'd like to sling more insults my way, feel free to. I find them most entertaining. Call me a sociopath or something, but I've always enjoyed the proverbial "eating someone's lunch." And you're letting me eat your lunch, troll!!
While I do not tell those who I enter into "relationships" with that I am a sociopath, I make it clear that there will be no exclusivity in the relationship and I view them as friends ("with benefits"). Even despite this, they treasure me. I comfort them when they are saddened and lend my support when they need it. I don't judge them for what they do or who they are. Though I cannot love them, I make them feel loved and adored in a way that no other person ever has.
ReplyDeleteI recently left a five-year exclusive relationship. I honestly felt miserable because of how restricted I felt. Despite ending it, we are still good friends and speak regularly.
The worst damage I have done to any of these people is causing them to lose sleep as they stay up to talk to me. While many of you empaths who have been damaged have generalized what you see a sociopath as to the entire population of sociopaths, it is essentially the equivalent of me looking at you and deciding all empaths are cruel, vindictive, hateful, and all-around uncouth.
To the religious Anonymous a bit ago: We don't need healing. I, at least, am entirely content with who and what I am.
If you know what you're doing, sociopaths are the easiest people to control. All you have to do is play to their ego, play to their selfishness and ideas of grandiosity, and you can get whatever the fuck you want out of them. I kind of feel bad for them, because although they have the power to easily manipulate clueless people, they are so transparent and easy to manipulate themselves! Thing is, they never really expect for someone to see right through them and to use their own motivations for my own gain.
ReplyDeleteAnd the funniest thing is, I'm not even a sociopath!
ReplyDeleteIt's like a card game! the BPD card trumps socio!
ReplyDeleteThis article is so funny, full of contradictions. Whoever wrote this is completely detached from reality.
ReplyDelete"Sociopaths can love with a selfish intensity that puts other love to shame" (For a start, you use the word "Shame", which lets face it is outrageous when we know the reality and understand that any perceived love from a sociopaths perspective is a one way process i.e. take all that you can without responsibility)
Their love is a devouring, consuming sort of love. (agree with this, sociopaths just take) When I love someone, I feel like I want to inhale them -- to literally suck out their soul. When I kiss someone, I try to do just that.
Love may be blind for empaths, but a sociopath sees your faults clearly and loves you still. The sociopath's piercing eyes are not only unsettling because of their unwavering constancy, but because the sociopath's eyes can pierce through to your very soul, leaving you naked before his gaze. (My the eddyfying height of your persona hey? well get this, once you know a sociopath, you can spot their traits and habits a mile off)
The sociopath's ignorance or disinterest in social norms means that he will not see you as the world sees you but how you truly are. They're free of the rose-colored glasses (you mean actual character I guess?) empaths falling in "love" often wear. I imagine this ability would be particularly appealing to those whose role in society doesn't reflect their true worth (god, I see without you, the human race is doomed!): members of disfavored races or socioeconomic backgrounds, the too-smart-for-their-own-good crowd, the still-waters-run-deep.
Sociopaths have a genius for adoring.( a genius for deceit you mean) Their understanding of your wants and needs matched with their charm and flexible personality mean that they can and will literally become the man or woman of your dreams. (yes we know this too well, but its all false) In fact, when I love, my first step is to gather as much information as possible about every aspect of the person's life in order to more closely resemble their ideal mate. (how sad to live such a false life)
The closest analog to a sociopath's love is probably the love of a child: intense, accepting, selfish. And finally, like a child, the sociopath will be extremely loyal. (oh yes I see, that's why the majority of them are fraudsters, loyal up until the point they have extracted their sordid wants and then discard their hapless host)
A sociopath will never put you above himself, but he will readily put you above all others. (are you for real, complete bullshit! When push comes to shove, they will shit on anybody to get what they want or escape from any impending exposure)
Here is the English dictionary's top definition to educate you to love's true meaning, something as a sociopath you will never feel. Sad.
love (lv)
n.
1. A deep, tender, ineffable feeling of affection and solicitude toward a person, such as that arising from kinship, recognition of attractive qualities, or a sense of underlying oneness.
Love & Sociopath = Oxymoron
I would hate to necro, but there is a big difference between an empath and a normal person.
ReplyDeleteBeing nice and caring doesn't equal being empathic. True empaths care for others because we are good(really good) at picking up body language and understanding it at a sub-conscious level; almost to the point we can feel as others do.
But it doesn't automatically mean being a "nice care-bear", or some clueless twit.
Empathic's are pretty much at the opposite end of the scale in comparison to sociopaths. Add in human intelligence and the propensity of our species for self awareness(even though few seek it) and it can be a self debilitating condition in it's own right.
Think about it, empaths pick up on others emotions and feelings to some degree or another; peoples inner workings. Most sociopaths hide their inner workings to some degree, it is referred to as a "Clenchy mask"(as do many people try to put on a "poker face" in life).
If a person is "feeling" a clenchy mask, since it is not the real emotions then wouldn't such a person just be a mimicker? A survival instinct of sort's(while empathy often goes against ones own survival).
To an Empath a "normal" is as a far away removed as a sociopath is to a "normal"(if there is such a thing). It is estimated that sociopaths make up 10% of the population, so what is everyone elses excuse to acting cruel, spiteful and selfish towards others?
Unless they take steps to change things, the general human communication hierarchy is thus:
ReplyDelete1. Words spoken.
2. Facial expression.
3. Body language.
With words being the most trusted, and body language the most ignored. This is contradictory to reality. Body language cannot lie without being faked. Facial expression is difficult to fake believably. But lying is easy. It is the flaw of our social brains.
The lizard brain, the most primitive, controls body language. It is a construct of primordial instinct. The mammalian brain is the root of our higher emotions, lending itself to concepts of family. And the primate brain is, simply, the lying brain. From here grow language, God, and other tools of untruth.
"It is estimated that sociopaths make up 10% of the population"
ReplyDeleteI think you're confusing sociopathy with homosexuality. Sociopathy is estimated at between 1% and 4% of the total population. By gender, I think the breakdown is something like 2-3% of males and 1-2% of females.
I have been married to a sociopathic female for 10 years. She has had 2 children from 2 other marriages, I am the third. We have a daughter together. It has been difficult, it becomes an uphill battle, a constant struggle to support her everchanging emotional needs and trying not to feel bad when she lies, cheats and tries to cover-up her behaviors. I do love her, dearly, but at some point I will develop and emotional wall towards her as she can't clearly identify how to show love towards me. Do I let her go? Do I let someone else put up with it? Hell no! She is a beautiful person and I am wise enough to be able to identify and manage through the tough times. If it's not me, it will just be someone else. I would rather her choose me in the end, even if it means heartache and battles. Love is what it is, and I love her no matter who she is or what she does.
ReplyDeletei should be numb right now, it should be impossible to cry. but reading that just made me hysterical, im in-love with a sociopath, who you are that wrote this, you just like... described every detail of what has gone in my life for the past 3 years, on and off ..and recently on again...being in-love with her hurts so much . especially when i doubt that she even loves me at all.. . im sort of in shock right now. i just wish i knew what to do, because i will die loving this person... i need help, anyone... oh by the way, this isn't the first time i have loved a sociopath..
ReplyDeleteMy question is being a sociopath, Can i honestly fall inlove with another sociopath? Could it be we are evolving off each other? Our love is relentless. I was diagnoised at 13 him at 24. I feel as though he's using my command of emotion and feeling to his advantage just to better himself...I'm ok with this but not ok with the emotion of love him being my first, by no means sexually but emotionally. I cant change who i am. I'm a phycopath but i understand there are very few with multiple diagnoises of such a disease. I'm a high functioning phycopath and pose this question because my phyciatrist would intsitusionalize me. I'd perfer to spend 72 hours doing what i'd like instead of what people believe is right.
ReplyDeleteyours trully,
your illusion
I've been dating a sociopath for the last 5 years. The first year we started dating he was what I consider to be the "perfect" boyfriend. He used to say and do all the right things. Let's just say I fell in love with him and I fell hard. He always used to tell me that he didn't deserve me because I was beautiful (more beautiful than him), rich (while his family is not), intelligent (I graduated high school while he never did), and hardworking (while he was not). Of course these are things that every girl wants to hear. I have to admit that it made me feel loved but I never looked down upon him or thought that I was better than him in any way; to me he was the perfect guy. Two years later, we ended up living together and things started to change. I began to see who he really was. He was a drug addict, and alcoholic, an internet porn addict, he used to film us having sex without me knowing about it (I later found that out once he was in jail for violating probation when I snooped through his computer), he used to go to the bathroom and leave it sit there for days without flushing and I'm talking about nb.2 (he used to use the basement toilet; the one that I never used, EVER), he told me how much he liked tights and how he wanted me to wear them when we had sex, he would verbally abuse me all the time, lie to me about crazy shit like having cancer or kidney failure, the list goes. I can't tell you how many times he broke up with me for no reason or start fights just so he could break up with me. A few months ago he broke up with me and I decided to block him so that he couldn't call me, text me, or email me and it drove him absolutely insane. He went as far as to hack into my email so that he could send me emails about how he was sorry and how he was going to change and what not. Of course, like an idiot I took him back. The truth is, it's begun to feel like a game to me just like how he sees our relationship. I mean, I've basically become what he wants me to be (I act the way he wants most of the time and mostly I obey every single one of his sexual fantasies/needs; wearing tights whenever he wants and what not). Even though I know he's a complete psycho, for some reason, I can't stop myself from talking to him. I'll go for a while without saying anything to him but then I go running back to him. Anyway, recently, I left for Europe to visit my family and just before I left we got into a huge fight and he broke up with me for the 100th time because he made me miss my flight (I strongly believe it was on purpose because he hates it when I leave). Afterward, he wouldn't stop texting me while I was away (saying mean things of course)and I would barely ever respond which made him even more angry. Then he started emailing me about random stuff like shows he was going to play with his band, or this tea place that he thought I would like; out of the blue of course. He kept asking me when I was coming home (even though he shouldn't care since we're technically broken up) and finally, one night, I decided to text him and he told me that he wanted me to stop sending him messages and that he hoped I understood. I actually laughed out loud when I got that message since he's been messaging me for weeks. We haven't spoken for weeks and he knows that I am coming home in a week. I guess what I want to know after all these years is whether or not he is ever really going to end things with me? I mean he keeps complaining about our relationship and how much he hates it but he stays in it nevertheless. So, is this guy ever going to move on and let me go or is it up to me to really end things for good?
ReplyDeleteHi everyone..i have some questions and was wondering if anyone could answer them for me.
ReplyDelete1. how do sociopaths experience love?
what do they expect from "loving" relationships or from other relationships with human beings? Do they expect other people to feel something for them and if yes then what?
2. do sociopaths desire relationships with other human beings at all?
3. what do sociopaths experience or "feel" when they see a person in physical pain. how about emotional pain? is it different when the pain is caused by them?
4. do sociopaths experience emotional pain and if yes then what is most likely to cause it?
Someone on this post said that "if you know what you're doing then sociopaths are easy to control". Is that so? I wonder if a sociopath would agree with that. I mean, are they easy to control and if so, how do you control them? In my experience, I was never able to control my sociopath, but god knows he controlled and manipulated him plenty.
ReplyDeletei don't see any difference between how i as a strong empath love, and your description of how a sociopath loves. as far as wearing rose-tinted glasses, I have no interest in denying the sociopath in a sociopath. being an empath simply means accepting them as a whole package and loving them all the more for it. love is not perfection for me, it can be doomed and absurd without the value and definition of 'love' being diminished. i don't see any distinction from empaths, only exact replication in the way you say sociopaths love.
ReplyDeletelol by 'strong empath' i mean an extreme empath. cos by definition, strength is a challenge for me!
ReplyDeleteas a side note, i'm sick of reading so-called empaths' whinings on these comment pages, giving actual empaths a bad name. stop fucking whining and go learn about what you are before getting involoved with ANYone, and then certainly if you are a true empath and not just a 'normal' who doesn't understand what an empath actually is, you will stop laying the blame for your pain and heartache on the other person. it's embaressing to read you all hurl vitriol at sociopaths like you expect them to be 'normal'. you're a bunch of idiots and this site is overridden with you. i reiterate that an empath is an extreme, NOT the norm and by definition empaths are open-minded to an uncommon degree, which means they don't come on these blogs and list all the things that made they're sociopathic-ex inhuman. if you are actually an empath, you more than anyone in the human race are most equipped to NOT vilify and point fingers at people who are different to you.
ReplyDeleteas far as the love question goes, i too perceive love subjectively, and never use the word 'love' as anything but reference to a feeling, and feelings change. love is not an obligation to satisfy a, b and c and quite frankly a little realism goes a heck of a long way.
(continued from above): as a side note i want to tell all these so-called empaths to stop their fucking whining and get off of this site. Firstly, i predict the ones hurling vitriol at sociopaths are just 'normals' who don't understand that empaths are an extreme, a minority. you are not an empath just as you are not a sociopath. proof: empaths are uncommonly open-minded and are precisely that fraction of the human race that do not vilify and point fingers at those that are different to them. you should go learn more about yourself before you get involved with ANYone, and then if you actually are an empath (ie. not a normal/neuro-typical) you will certainly not be laying the blame for your pain and heartache on the other person who you deludedly perceive as a 'normal' when they clearly are not. and count it as a benefit that these sociopaths are telling you exactly what they are. i mean, what better warning do you want!?! i am sick and tired of you overriding this site with your immature, oblivious, un-self-aware baggage. you are giving actual, thinking empaths a really bad name so go whine elsewhere, namely in a place where other deluded people reside.
ReplyDeleteon the question of love, i too, as an empath, view it subjectively as a feeling that can change,not as an obligation for the other person to satisfy a,b and c in the way society deems healthy. i stay for as long or as short as I am instinctively comfortable with.
a little realism goes a heck of a long way. And i would love to dispel this notion that empaths are deluded love-zombies. if you irritants stop frequenting this site, it would help that quite a bit.
er, i did just get the irony of my post as i appear to be vilifiying a whole group namely the normals. all i mean is go educate yourselves before pointing the finger. I am just saying that for you people on here who claim to define for others what love is, you are misguided.
ReplyDeleteright, that's my last post for now. phew.
my brother is on the sociopathic spectrum. there was a period before i discovered what a sociopath was and that he was one, when i hated him with all my heart. i told him over and over that i thought he had the coldest, blackest heart i would ever come across. growing up i knew we saw the world in fundamentally different ways, even though 99% of the time we got on like a house on fire and still love each other's company. it was always that 1% of the time that was shatteringly destructive to any desire i had to maintain a relationship with him. lol, notably, even when i told him i despised him he always maintained his affection for me. to this day, his says i'm his favorite girl in the world and i believe him. the thing that was so destructive about him which i assume is common to sociopaths, is the way they truly think that EVERYONE is a mask-wearer. when you are innately sincere and pure-hearted, they still poke mercilessly, incredulous that some people are genuinenly designed that way. i tolerated his false accusations from when i was a child and it would break me, leave me inconsolable, and tears are of no relevance to them as they keep pushing and pushing. being an extreme empath, i couldn't have found myself in a worse situation than being told i was a liar or a manipulator. i love my brother to pieces but our combination was combustible, with me always ending up broken, and him unscathed. Only now i have a name for our difference can I discuss with him how he can put a cap on this horrible habit of his. if he won't for his favorite girl, he won't for anyone. if all else fails, i'll know when to exit before he starts going, but by then, the damage is already done anyway.
ReplyDelete...continued. now i know what we are i feel closer to him, i can help him with his relationship issues as he obviously gets with women a bit (ahem - a lot) like me and gets his hands a little too full. i haven't had a proper talk with him about all of this yet but i really think that when i do, things could be really good between us, maybe 99.8% of the time at least. :)
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This is true! I met a sociopath from New York. The sorry ass is also a parasite. Lives for free pretending to seek inpatient for a drug addiction, while all the time, the real reason is that he can't live on his own. Looking for a fool to take him in. He is the most sick person I have ever met.
ReplyDeleteI was diagnosed as a Sociopath recently. I was thinking my therapist got it wrong because he said Sociopaths can't love but what you have described here is me. Entirely.
ReplyDeletesociopaths are scammers.. they are all those people out in todays society taking advantage of old people and internet dating. In actuality, they seem to be cowards! They will take you for every cent you have and turn aroound the next day and do it all over again. As a christian, I believe they all can be helped. Getting them to completely submit takes patience and time. Something that most of us just do not have. My suggestion is RUN, fast as you can. There is so many people out there just waiting to love you and appreciate you for who you are,
ReplyDeleteI have a question please. I commenced an affair with a sociopath 2 years ago and I do not use the term lightly. He is by all definitions, clinical and otherwise, a sociopath. What started as an affair quickly became a tangled web of manipulation, intimidation, lies, alcoholism, power, control and abuse. I take full responsibility for allowing him to become inextricably linked to my business, social networks and finally, family. To the outside world he is a charming and successful businessman, intelligent, funny and always the life of the party. He always helped everyone with their business affairs – at no charge, which I came to learn was simply a way of manipulating relationships, locking people into a false sense of loyalty and obligation. The sad thing is – and despite caring for him deeply; I knew I could never love him in the way I loved my partner. He knew this and to start with it didn’t bother him whatsoever. Long story short, he seemed amused by the fact the initial exhilaration I felt with him had been replaced by a growing sense of fear. After constant highs and lows, 1½ years later I finally gained the strength to tell him I couldn’t do it anymore. He knew there was nothing he could hold over me anymore and flew into his usual rage, throwing things and verbally abusing me before calming asking my colleague if she would like coffee. I was terrified but also had an overwhelming sense of freedom. I had finally freed myself from the spider’s web. Two nights later he turned up at my home unannounced, slashed my tyres and killed my partner in a very violent and unprovoked manner. They had never met - this was the one and only part of me I had never allowed him to know and refused to let him destroy. This happened 4 weeks ago and many doctors, detectives and psychiatrists have all advised me his is a sociopath. It has also been suggested the outcome may have been intended for me. Although I was familiar with the term sociopath, I never knew what it really meant, like so many. After copious amounts of research into what clinically constitutes a sociopath, I have no doubt that is what he is. Everything is in understanding – and so many things are now clear. He has since mailed a letter to my business partner (I am under a protection order) and we were both shocked at the absolute lack of emotion, remorse or even appreciation for the gravity of what he has done. It was as if nothing had happened and he casually remarked he would be watching us from afar and asked her to take care of me for him. Despite all of this, and losing the most cherished person in my world, I feel so very saddened for this man. Can any of us truly imagine what it is to live an entire lifetime in a state of such emptiness and solidarity? The sheer loneliness would send anyone mad. My question is, if sociopaths are unable to experience emotion, what would have been his motivation for taking my partner’s life? Surely not jealousy - that would represent an emotion. My second question is, do sociopaths harbour long term resentment – btw; is it likely he will try to track me down when he is one day released.
ReplyDeleteSociopaths feel emotion. Question answered.
ReplyDeleteThe real issue is that love is actually self-less. to have strong all consuming feelings and attachment for someone does not necessarily mean you love them. Thats just passion... Rage is a passion too. And not surprisingly when intense attachments are unrequited rage often follows. Thats not love, that's a need to control.
ReplyDeleteLove is when you give of yourself because the other person is so valuable to you... You don't do things for any other reason accept that.
Its only work if its not real.
hello
ReplyDeleteI've been trying to understand this... and am reading up on a few things to clear things up in my own head about what I NEED TO DO FOR MYSELF...
until i read this (or part of it) and got a general gist, i was going bananas lol... well not REALLY because i'm a strong, intelligent, secure, beautiful, sexy, etc. etc. ex sufferer of a few conditions that i have now conquered...
*cough*
i have wondered for the last 6 months what type of person CANNOT genuinely consider the thoughts, feelings, wants, and needs of the person they claim to love (so intensely)...
... trying to understand how someone can treat love as a game... like its a big joke that they smirk about when things get heated...
how one week, someone can say
i love you
i want to be with you
i want to marry you
i want the next 40yrs with you
you are the most beautiful thing blah blah
then the next week say
i dont know what i want
i'm confused
i'm fucked in the head
i need to sort my shit out
its been a head spin, a mind fuck, a merry go round, a roller coaster road (that thank goodness i've been able to observe with awareness for what it is rather than what i've HOPED it may be)...
i have always had the feeling that its been a game... a competition where he wants to conquer me, break me, fuck my head up etc. because HE'S FUCKED UP...
agree on the whole conduct thing... most things happen during childhood development etc. etc.
at the end of the day, we have our instincts and if we're in tune, we can smell a rat when its a rat and we'll keep ourselves at a safe distance...
the guy i've dated for the last 6 months has constantly said YOU WIN... like its some sort of a competition??? FFS... i can understand that some people think in that frame of mind ALL THE TIME... its all about what they can GET...
he's lied - remains in denial about lying its laughable...
i could tape record him and he would STILL deny deny deny...
no point in trying to understand what you cant understand...
you either accept it or stop bitching and move on huh?
i guess the way i've dealt with him is
PISS OFF I DONT NEED YOUR BULLSHIT GAMES
to which he is stunned and speechless at the best of times - trying to say shit like
* point taken
* i'll take that on board
* you're right
* i agree
etc.
the guy appears to love me and i'm sure he does in his own sociopathic way but THAT TYPE OF LOVE?
is a NO-GO for me...
NEXT!!! lol
how blind and deluded you are. are you biased against empaths or you just a know-it-all?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v_4O44sfjM&feature=related
ReplyDeletethis song is clearly written by an empath for a socio.
interesting in the video it looks as though
"Their love is a devouring, consuming sort of love. When I love someone, I feel like I want to inhale them -- to literally suck out their soul."
What would it be like if two sociopaths ended up in a relationship together?
ReplyDeleteWould they cause enormous amounts of hurt to each other yet continue the relationship undoubtedly?
Is it possible for two sociopaths too fall in love with each other? I'm trying to figure out whether me or my partner is the sociopath...
Some of the most successful people in this world are either p/s or at the very least have sociopathic tendancies,not all sociopaths are leeches. They march to the beat of a different drummer. They can be productive members of society, not all sociopaths are violent or vile. Vile people are vile, violent people are violent. And to the person attacking sociopaths, you may have some serious sociopathic tendencies,because you are attempting to degregate people,you are actinng without conscience,these sociopaths seem to have better manners than you,perhaps your sociopathic ex-lover was not a sociopath after all,perhaps your lover could not stand you. I have very strong suspicions that I am currently living with a man that has sociopathic tendencies at the very least,and this man may be difficult to read,hard to live with at times completely ignorant to other peoples feelings but he is far less difficult that you are any day of the week.
ReplyDeleteTo all the DIAGNOSED sociopaths, can you explain to me what that means without the psychiatric babble that I have indured reading all night. Is it possible for someone to seem to have sociopathic tendencies but also the compacity to love?
Can't believe I didn't realize it sooner... And, in a way, I feel better knowing it. Almost of sense of.. belonging. Something I've never felt before.
ReplyDeleteIt's finally clear.
I'm a sociopath.
January 3, 2011 2:30 AM, Personally I like visiting websites for sociopath victims. To see them feeling anger and wanting revenge, is like watching your seed growing into a tree. I would be proud if my EXs would be more like that.
ReplyDeleteRe: Anon November 6, 2010 1:11 AM
ReplyDeleteNot sure if you still read this but perhaps this information will help you understand if you do.
Your partner was killed because it was what would hurt you the most. You were his, he reads people well and tries to be what they want. For you to chose your partner over someone who could be what you wanted made no sense. He would not understand the emotional attachment. He was angry with your choice.
Yes, they do harbor long term resentment. If they were wronged in their mind they would most likely never forget it and wait for the opportunity to pay the person back. However in your situation you are safe, he already won. If he couldn't be with you, your partner wouldn't either. Destroying whatever you care most about.
I wouldn't feel sorrow for him living without emotions (he has basic primal emotions, just no attachments). It allows one to think more clearly, read people and better view the world around them. Which is why they are excellent manipulators.
@Wildchildgirly
ReplyDeleteWhat a beautiful person. I loved reading your long, detailed comments. You're very fascinating, yes, thus also refreshing and inspiring.
I'm glad I've come across this blog; it's so interesting.
Is that why you can get laid, but anyone your with leaves you unless they have severe abondement issues?
ReplyDeleteIs it because your love is so good?
The empaths and norm's seem so much better at actually keeping the one they love.
I haven't been burned in love (at least not by a socpiath.. i know better than to go near them), but I'm sick of socipaths proclaiming themselves superiour. Not being able to function in society is NOT a super power. Good day.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteNo. No they don't
ReplyDeleteM.E.:
ReplyDelete"The closest analog to a sociopath's love is probably the love of a child: intense, accepting, selfish. And finally, like a child, the sociopath will be extremely loyal. A sociopath will never put you above himself, but he will readily put you above all others."
This is almost exactly how it is with me, and it fits me like a glove except for one thing:
I have never felt love!
I have experienced other emotions of positive nature such as Fascination and Admiration, and I also experience a sense of respect.
If I meet someone who can level with me and understand me, and who seem to encompass qualities that I admire, I am committed with an enthusiasm and focus that tolerates no disruption, I am fiercely loyal and protect and/or support the subject aggressively.
This article reminds me of some of the texts I have been writing for my blog. I started with the idea of writing an article much like the one you've published here, but decided to include more of the aspects and details.
whoever the dumbass is answering these questions is not a sociopath but a simple attention whore. sociopaths don't KNOW they are sociopaths. they don't KNOW they are manipulative liars and lack empathy or guilt, their lies become their truth. If you are pathological liar and truly believe your own lies, you can never admit to lying- because you really don't FEEL that you're lying. A sociopath by definition can never understand they are a sociopath. and we should just have another holocaust and do to sociopaths/psychopaths what was done to the jews- kill them, show them lack of empathy or remorse, show them how worthless they are and give them their own medicine. they are empty useless human beings who are nothing but a drain on economy, a waste of human flesh, and hogging up oxygen and space for the real humans. better yet, let's stick them in a zoo and put them on display. i hate sociopaths and they all deserve nothing less than eternal pain. And at the same time they turn me on because they are so easy to exploit and take advantage of. they are unable to love therefor they can never love themselves and stand up for themselves. sociopaths are the easiest target, yet everyone seems to think sociopaths are the ones victimizing people. if it makes any sense, i'm a sociopath exclusively towards sociopaths. and i love every second of it.
ReplyDeleteThey are very aware of what they are doing, they are masters of studying behavior, they are the best personality profilers they are, because of their extensive networks on human emotion and interaction. But I like how they liken sociopathic love to that of a child, in a way sociopaths never seem to mature beyond that all consuming selfish love that we have for ourselves when we are 14 or so, before we are taught that other people need more attention. When we are adolescents we are selfish and only care about anything in the way that it relates to us. It just seems like their emotional maturing freezes there.
ReplyDeleteFrom reading this post and its comments I'm not convinced that sociopaths love as others do. It may come down to definitions I suppose. The general population loves in manner x and sociopaths "love" in manner y. No problem there, except when sociopaths portray their love as x and someone gets hurt. Well, it's not a problem for the sociopath, which is exactly why their love isn't type x.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I got burned by someone who I suspect is a sociopath. Even though it was possible to see the ways in which I might have out-manipulated his narrowly focused mind, I didn't want to because my love was type x. So, yeah, I got hurt when his behavior became unforgivable. But I hope that my capacity to experience type x love outweighs the heartache and lessons learned.
In the end I'm just not even sure that the definition of a sociopath is compatible with love as the rest of society understands it. Maybe you have something akin to it, but call it something else so you aren't fooling anyone. Oh wait... haha... I forgot that fooling people is something sociopaths do best.
Do sociopaths love? I guess that depends on your definition of love. Its probably more constructive to discuss how they view and approach relationships.
ReplyDeleteAlso it important to realize that sociopathy is an extreme. SO we are talking about degree with which one exhibits certain traits.
I think a better way to understand it via objective vs subjective. A so called sociopath desires and enjoys a concept or idea of a relationship. But it is not based on the other person it is soully an image or ideal of a relationship that is important to the sociopath. They project what they desire onto the person regardless of the other persons real feelings or traits. This means the other person can be replaced because it not the person that is truly important to them it is the traits and ideals that the sociopath projects on to the person. Problems arise when the illusion they created are challenged or weakened. TO put it bluntly they don't love others as they are they love the illusion they created the person just happens to be the current focus but it can be applied to others as well and often because it is a construct of the sociopath not a reflection of the true relationship.
Lastly, definitions matter (to the person that said something similar to self defintion being the litus test rather than a clinical definition). I can call myself a wood sprite and claim that anyone that isn't one should not post to blogs about wood sprite unless they self define themselves a such. Claiming myself as a something does not automatically make me one. I have to meet the definition or call myself something else that I can define and show I exhibit said traits.
I also just wanted to add. That sociopaths are not as good at manipulation as they think. It is more correct to say they are good at allowing others to manipulate themselves. And they should be they are in their element (so to speak) they use their target's ego and confirmation bias (the world they live in and know so well) to fool themselves. However, that which gives them ability is also their weakness. Sociopaths are the easiest people to manipulate because they are trapped in the ego to the extent that they can't objectively see things. This makes them them extremely easy to manipulate.
ReplyDeleteIts ironic that empaths are much more adept at the sort of manipulation used by sociopaths but that same vehicle that makes them better at it also provide a buffer against them actually utilizing said advantage. Something to think about.
Ok I am not a sociopath(narci tendencies a tad) but my partner of four years is and has been recently diagnosed fully fledged wired up the wrong way socio. Well he is now my ex partner, now I know what he is I actually find him rather unappealing. The sex was great as I made it great I was intense he was pretty mediocre until I opened up his horizons. I could see from the beginning he was trying too hard to be Mr perfect, however i did not know what he was fully capable of as he was clever and sly and would look for my Achilles heel and prey on it, constantly manipulating and emotinally playing with me. I would catch him out lying constantly and as I knew i could never trust
ReplyDeletehim, I would humiliate and berate him, hold back sex insult him to the bone to make him pay. In turn he secretly hated my guts and would chase other women, start affairs and try and turn friends and others against me etc. We fed off each other, attached unhealthily but destroying each other in different ways although he had the upper hand as I
was direct in my venom, he was more calculated. In the end he told one lie too many and I snapped, I played a socio at his own game, I lied, manipulated, lulled him
In and exposed and embarrassed him for all his weaknesses. A socio may not feel love allegedly but they feel Hurt especially when their game didn't finish with them
on top in the end he was the one who could not tell what games were being played and he went into meltdown. Ok I put myself through a lot and reading this back I am perhaps slightly fucked up myself and perhaps the game isn't over yet in his head, so who knows but if he comes back for more its game on round 900. In my next relationship i an going to be a little nicer myself and go for
a slightly more "normal" species... Like me lol xxx
Species :) x