Thursday, May 31, 2012

Weak sense of self

A reader sent me this interesting lecture from Stanford Lecturer Kelly McGonigal about the neuroscience behind self-referential processing.  She sums up the main point of her argument thusly: "we carry the seeds of suffering in our own minds, primarily through the human mind's habit of carefully constructing and then rigidly defending a sense of self that is based on our preferences, our attitudes, our beliefs, and our personal stories and that it's this churning of the self machine that gives rise to so much of our daily suffering."




It discusses whether there is some way to have a self-awareness that does not engage the self-referential processing, i.e. an experiential self that is not based on the narrative of self-referential processing or the stories we tell ourselves, but rather is based on "the awareness of the constantly changing feelings, thoughts, and things going on in our environment".  The answer is yes, but only among people who are trained in meditation.  My personal experiences and anecdotal knowledge regarding sociopaths suggests to me that this would also include sociopaths, who naturally have a weak sense of self (see also here), and seem to experience self-awareness almost entirely as the experiential self, not the self-referential self (using her lexicon).

It's interesting too that this lecture was apparently given at a Buddhist conference.  I have never bothered to learn much about Buddhism, but people have frequently remarked here on how the sociopath's detachment from self and lack of anxiety regarding outcomes is what many Buddhists hope to accomplish in order to achieve Nirvana. And sociopaths just happen to be born that way.

Here's what the reader wrote:


There's 3 categories in the experiment:
1) non-meditators
2) recent meditators
3) experienced meditators


My understanding of what happens:
Category 1 feels the pain, then thinks "how long will this go on, why me? oh shit? get away, get away!"


Category 2 feels the pain and focuses on their breathing. They ignore the pain as best they can by focusing on something else. Meditation has given them the ability to concentrate, so they concentrate on something other than the pain.


Category 3 feels the pain and tries to feel and examine it as best they can. They are so busy doing that, moment by moment, they aren't thinking, "why me, how long will this go on" etc. because when they really focus on what they are sensing, as opposed to how things aren't how they would like it, they lose their sense of self.

241 comments:

  1. Okay, my fellow sociopaths. It's time again to help your fellow baby sociopath. I need your insight on angry people. I made someone angry today by hitting them with my phone. I threw it at them (admittedly rather hard and for no reason other than it crossing my mind). And they got angry at me. The nerve! Anyway, my experience with anger has always been a momentary thing to demonstrate I don't like what has happened or a combination of voice and facial expressions to make people jump, do what I want, or just to move them above their base level to something else. It's always cold and ceases precisely when I've hit my mark. With empaths it's different though. I swear they fume and I have no idea how to handle it. It makes me feel awkward since I'm usually so charming. How do you guys process someone getting mad at you against your intentions? Do you try to be conciliatory and console them? Do you try a certain percentage more than if they were just a bit upset? I think the thing that gets me with socializing is these new emotions that get directed at me and I feel like I have to perform brain surgery just to get back on track. Sorry for the rambling. I'm sure I left some aspect of what I felt out. I waited a couple hours just to query you guys. :)

    tl;dr When people (people you are actively seducing, trying to make feel good) get mad at YOU for some slight against them how do you generally respond?

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    1. To be completely frank, I was trying to make this person feel good-time happy chemicals by watching a movie with them and just being my awesome self. I felt when they got made I had slipped in my resolve and felt awkward because I had no idea how to recover and overcompensate like I normally do in these situations. I just went with minimization and moving on with the niceties. In the back of my mind though that a more skilled person would do it better.

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    2. In this particular case the person is a borderline so he was rather pissed.

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    3. Seriously? Shut the fuck up.

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  2. Ha! Sounds more like a good sales pitch from the religious groups to me.All the religious groups are about due for a revamp.Looks like the buddists got in firrrst.
    Category three can now inspire all to want to reach this Nivarna (that S's just happen to be born with).What a load of crap.Let's all go and 'focus on sensing'(high pitched ting resonates)
    sounds like a good plot for the sitcome though.

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  3. The idea of finding a link between Buddhism and ASPD gives rise to some misgivings in me. We have the feeling of compassion as the ultimate basis for all the meditation techniques Buddhist have developed. Now to link compassion with psychos and socios… well that would mean an even looser definition of ASPD and as of now that definition is already too lose to be useful.

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    1. Yes, that is stretching it a little bit.

      Sociopathy detachment and meditative detachment are not of the same quality or purpose. Not all detachment is the same.

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    2. Feeling all well, Medusa? I expect you are fully conscious that you are agreeing with me.

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    3. I'm agreeing with the content, not you. Don't get the two confused.

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    4. Nobody seems to know if sociopaths are violent or rather malicious, if they harm others because they don’t care or because that’s their only chance of getting a kick out of personal relations, nobody seems to have a clue about the best way to cure or even screen sociopaths. Diagnose of famous historical figures as sociopaths seems wishful thinking… it seems to be undecided whether sociopaths suffer as a result of their condition or enjoy it exceedingly… well, the state of the matter doesn’t leave much room for further increasing vagueness in the outlining of their main traits. At this rate ASPD will soon look no longer as a construct, but rather as an outright chimera.

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    5. They actually do know, you just haven't read it. Aspd and psychopathy are different by the way.

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    6. Strange advice coming from someone with so little grip on reality.

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    7. Compared to you I'm the epitome of realism.

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    8. True dat Jose lol

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    9. Really? You've been on here raging against psychology and talking about personality disorders yet you have no education in psychology and hardly know anything about personality disorders at all. Yesterday you couldn't tell the difference between schizophrenia and schizoid yet you still had to plow on like you knew what you were talking about. That's the defintition of someone with little grip on reality. Maybe you should educate yourself on topics first before opening your mouth and looking like nothing but a arrogant fool.

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  4. The new guy in the Forum describes the kind of red hot and then cold anger, which I never understood. This young man describes many classic sociopath traits with great clarity, such that the reader can get behind his eyes.

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  5. self-referential self

    This is what I am trying to access and why I come here( other than the great friendships ~) My opinion is that when you have access to this "self", you will be as healthy as you can be, as a human being. I have made a study of self-referential self, in my own way, because I wanted it so badly.

    I have had a period when I had access to it. It was Nirvana. Nothing compares, not wealth, beauty, prestige, popularity or any other quality the world can give. It stands alone for pure peace, joy and happiness.

    I meditate and do Kundalini yoga( 1-2 hours a day). This has not helped me get this self back. I will tell you what does and this alone does. I force myself to have genuine self expression. If I want to say something, I force myself to say what is on my heart. If it is socially acceptable, it does not count. Where is the danger in that, or the growth?

    I force myself to step out, just on my gut, with some form of self expression, even if it is humor.

    When I see that my genuine self expression is OK( ie does not get me killed or hurt, my self referential self grows.

    I had to shut it down to survive. I had to get what is called "the false self"

    Undoing the false self and finding the genuine self is Nirvana on earth. I think much of what we strive for is simply a striving for this.

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    1. The term "self-referential" seems to be used in the video as a somehow inferior state to that of "self-experiential", Monica. I wonder if when you speak about your genuine self you are keeping in mind that Buddhists are in favour of a total elimination of self. In the first half of the video they single out a sentence that seems to sum it all up: "Self is a suffering machine"

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    2. Jose
      I mean the word in terms of of an inner locus of control, as psych calls it. It is a sense that you have a referential point to your genuine self, if that makes sense lol

      I understand meditation, to some degree. I see it as helping you to access yourself, NOT to make yourself more amorphous. in the sense of becoming "one with the universe" etc as they seem to indicate, sometimes.

      I am trying to crystallize my self, you could say. I am trying to go from a false self that I had to don to survive( and which feels like a kid bundled up in snow clothes) to a genuine self i.e have access to my emotions and perceptions. Then, one needs the concomitant maturity to know when to hold em and when to fold em, but that is a different subject.

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    3. So it seems to me you don't go along with Buddhists, do you?

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    4. Well, I like Gestalt Therapy. That was the only one I liked when I was in school. That helps you to access your genuine self. My goal is to be an authentic person. I have an idea, in my mind, of what that looks like.

      I would have access to all my emotions and thoughts. Then, I would need the wisdom, as to when to express them or not.

      As of now, I don't have access to them and that is my basic dilemma. I became numb and froze. I am trying to reverse that process and unfreeze, you could say.

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    5. So what you want is unblock your capacity of feeling, huh?

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    6. YES You got it, Jose. You said it so simply, but that it is! Want to hear something sad? I am learning to sing. My teacher wants me to learn how to growl, which is that sexy tone that people use. I can't do it because I have pushed my sexuality down so far that I can't access it.

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    7. I wonder if it was you who pushed it down or it was actually pushed down from the outside…

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    8. By the way, is growling sexy? I mean when somebody growls at me I generally don't feel any arousal.

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    9. My mother molested me. I feel like my sexuality called the abuse down on me, even though I know, intellectually, that it is not true.

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    10. Growling is super sexy. It is a gravely tone in the voice.

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    11. Well, I had no idea, and even now that you tell me I can't possibly imagine what that could be like. No sexuality can endure such treatment without being pushed deep down, I suppose.

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    12. Definitely I must try growling; I’ll see if I can get any music professor to train me. Is showing your teeth mandatory or optional? (only joking)

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    13. Thanks Jose <3
      I will see if I can find a song with growling for you.

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    14. Listened to the song, Monica, can hear the howling all right, but where's the growling?

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    15. 3:32 for one lol

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    16. But that's a war cry, Monica! It's simply bloodcurling!

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    17. Did you howl when your mums cold fingers went into you monica?

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    18. Not as much as I would howl if I could put an ice pick in your eye.

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    19. I'll be brief, Ukan: Ukan't.

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    20. I'll be brief

      I guess there's a first time for everything.

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    21. For you, Ukan, more than three words on a row is too much strain for your brain.

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    22. Maybe three of yours, but seldom would you grace us with such brevity.

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    23. Don't worry, I won't ask too much from you.

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    24. You don't ask anything jose you just preach.

      I'm glad I was able to facilitate you engaging more, however. I thought you might never tire of hearing yourself talk.

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    25. Monica I think you misunderstood the article and the video. Did you watch the video even?

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    26. No, I was so excited by the topic that I just took off. Maybe, I should watch it now.

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  6. Happy CapitalismMay 31, 2012 at 5:25 AM

    The mere fact you socio's are here, typing on your computer without fear of secret police beating down your door and hauling you off is testament to the superiority of capitalism !!!!

    Cuba would be happy to have you and you could learn first hand all the wonders of socialism.

    Perhaps poverty is a virtue - go find out and report back to me if you think you know better!

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    Replies
    1. ¡Sociópatas por una Cuba libre! that sounds like a great political war cry. Anyway this could open an interesting debate: Would sociopaths be happier under Castro regime or in anti-castro circles in sunny Miami?

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    2. The sociopath that is sucessful does very well under capitalism

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    3. Anon 6:05. The sociopath that is successful... is successful, right? Whether he lives in Mongolia, Massachusetts or the Fiji islands.

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    4. Depends if I'm in the ruling party in cuba or not. Otherwise I'd be in miami trying for a counter revolutionary power grab so I can establish myself as the new dictator.

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    5. The ruling party! you have power fantasies all the time, haven't you? I'm sure you have a spiderman suit hanging in your closet.

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    6. Shhh, don't reveal his identity, Green Goblin might be reading this blog too... :(

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    7. Try asking something better than a trite alternate choice question and you will get an answer outside of fantasy jose. Alternate choice questions control the outcome to only your desired answers. I use them all the time. I don't give desired answers. I give my answer.

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    8. Hey, Ukan’t, you'd be happy if you were offered a position in that cuban secret police that beat doors down and haul people off... wouldn't you? Well: “Ukan” dream that psychologist know how you cure you, but “Ukan’t” imagine any police department in the world would accept you.

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    9. And statistics shows that many socios are working in military, police, etc.
      But you live in your own dreamland, don't you, Jose?

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    10. Maybe I did as a lad, but I got over it when I was ten or so. No, a police officer is not a high enough position for me. They are nothing but soldiers following orders. I like to give orders not take them.

      Fidel Castro was impressive to say the least. With a handful of men and a lot of charisma he brought down the governement and expelled or shot the counter revolutionaries who opposed him.

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    11. But Castro died.

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    12. Now he's giving orders in hell.

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    13. Fidel Castro isn't dead idiot. That rumour flies around every year. Even if he did die that would mean he ruled until his death, which is impressive for a dictator.

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    14. ha ha just seeing if anyone was sharp.

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    15. Mee: do you enjoy statistics?

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  7. Happy Capitalism
    First of all, not everyone is a sociopath. Second of all, not all sociopaths are assholes. Some are, but not all.

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  8. have often thought of myself as halfway between psychopath/narcissist and buddha incarnate :)
    much of my life is like my consciousness is simply observing my life, observing what my body says and does, observing dispassionately. my thoughts are more objective and not subject to the dualism of the outside world + me, it is all observed together.
    Nirvana isn't a state of bliss as popular culture thinks, it is a state of no desire - something people of flat affect surely have an advantage to achieve!

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  9. Check out this story of a guy in Canada that video taped a dexter like killing, chopped up the body and mailed parts to the government.

    They have interviews with this guy from years back. He seems to have a few issues lol

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  10. A word for the worn out sociopath with a view to become a Buddhist: The best choice is the rational way, not the religious way: coming to terms with the real symptoms; treat them separately, not together, as a pack. Don’t try to deal with them getting rid of your dysfunctional self: Independent and different solutions may be needed. Don’t lose heart if the problem seems to tangle up. Don’t hurry too much, design feasible goals. Convince yourself you’ll work it out sooner or later: that will prove a self-fulfilling prophecy.

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    1. Yes, Jose! Yes! Only you can enlighten us...
      You're really overbearing and boring.

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    2. You must have forgotten to take your pills today Anon.

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    3. Has this advice worked successfully on yourself?

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  11. Over achievers or go getters leave the work place or stagnate if they are not given more challenge or opportunities. This is why a sociopath end up ruining things at work for themself.

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  12. So Monica is now projecting the idea/image of a father-savior figure, that'd rescue her from dear mumsy, onto Jose.

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    1. Well this place is full of psychologists

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    2. Can't people have a normal talk around here, without roaches coming out of the wall?

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    3. No. This is sociopathworld.

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    4. Well you're certainly not one Mr. Schizoid=Schizophrenic.
      Besides, don't pretend it doesn't flatter you. Be honest to yourself, though I doubt you'll ever be able to pierce the veil of self delusion.

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    5. Can't believe it. Another psychologist or the same one?

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    6. Your grasp of psychology hasn't gone past a teenager's:

      Society is bad
      You must accept yourself
      The world is against me

      I can tell that you are about 19-21 years old.

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    7. No matter how hard you try, Ukan: Ukan’t . Sorry.

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    8. Was I wrong? Oh well all I have to go on is your underdeveloped ideas. Some people take longer to develop than others.

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    9. Earlier in SW people were talking that alchoholics are mentaly stuck in the year they overdosed. Jose, were you a drinker when you was a teenager? :)

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    10. UKan must have started drinking as a fetus.

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  13. Category 3 feels the pain and tries to feel and examine it as best they can. They are so busy doing that, moment by moment, they aren't thinking, "why me, how long will this go on" etc. because when they really focus on what they are sensing, as opposed to how things aren't how they would like it, they lose their sense of self.


    This is sociopathic?

    Because I've done this as a borderline so I can deal with my reactions in a rational and more removed way. In the end, I feel like my desires/needs/ sense of caring is numbed. That's not cool. Shouldn't my desires mean everything to me? Shouldn't I be wanting to get MORE in touch with what I really want?

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    1. Buddhist say no. You shouldn'g want anything.

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    2. Sociopaths focus on reward over pain. They did a study using consequences and rewards on sociopathic prisoners. Punishment made sociopaths more resiliant. However sociopaths showed a hypersensitivity to the reward system. They say that it is because of excess dopamine that sociopaths carry in their brain.

      On the question of should your desires mean everything to you: Yes, your desires should be something you follow everyday without fail.

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    3. I read a similar paper, Evidence for unique threat-processing mechanisms
      in psychopathic and anxious individuals
      by Lake, et al.

      I think I have a copy of it if you're interested.

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    4. Throw it up. It might be the one I read, but if it's different I would love to see another take on it.

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    5. http://minus.com/mgp4O0HAq/

      There should be a download link.

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    6. Is there such a thing as a Jewish American Princess Buddhist? Medusa, what say you?

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  14. About meditation: The activity of meditating is a good school of endurance, it helps face that void many impulsive characters seem to fear and cope with it. Moreover, meditating enhances by itself your tolerance to negative sensations; it makes you disciplined, and particularly resilient to delusion and self deprecation. This said, I don’t think that “self-referred self” gets to be replaced by “experiential self” in your average daily meditating person. In fact, mediation strives to change your attention focus from yourself and your personal problems to certain images, mostly religious, highly conventional, based upon the group and the proposals of your spiritual teacher. It’s to me quite doubtful that this leads to discovering yourself in any key aspect, I’d rather say it enables you to forget about your inner habits and acquire others, but after you get rid of your “old self” you run the risk of becoming very dependent on the religious group to maintain the new one.

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    1. And then if you spare or abandon, or leave your self behind how will you take decisions?

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    2. Depends what sort of meditation you're doing then.

      The sort I'm familiar with involves no religious images or connotations.

      Basic meditation is just letting your thoughts pass by on metaphorical lillypads and let them come and go without interfering, pushing away, or holding on to them.

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    3. Or deeper meditation is to focus on one thought self chosen. Or to go to a place in your mind that you build. The idea is to find your inner self, and that there is no correct way to do that but what works for you.

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    4. I think the idea in the end is not so much to find your 'inner self' so much as it is to not attach yourself to any static, personal, 'self-referential' sense of self.

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  15. Something to say about the inner relations between people who post here: See, I know talking about ideas, following reflections is difficult, not within everybody’s reach. I can understand that, but then almost everybody pretends to be a callous sociopath here, and many of these ferocious sociopaths fail to get to the core of matters that affect them directly and instead they mingle with one another in the most laughable way, driven by petty thrills that look exactly alike to those of empaths when they come together and start talking about platitudes. I frankly see no fundamental difference between this sociopath dark cave and any other forum in internet. A few articulate and nice people, some avid and passive watchers, some frustrated trolls and prowlers, business as usual, also here.

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    1. Half the people who are fucking with you are not sociopaths at all and never claimed to be, Jose. Your ideas are valued on merit. You come in here preaching at people, and speak as if ypu have an authority on subjects you have shown little understanding of. You are not the first and you will not be the last. Every person who's come here with such arrogance has left humbled as will you. So stop crying and start learning. Admit to yourself your ignorance and open your ears to learn something here.

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    2. Here's a good example. Thanks, Ukan.

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    3. Judging frome the above comment, it's plain to see that the accent is put on envy, rage, curiosity, conjecture, it's the basis of the small talk in any small town.

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    4. Even animals in Dr Moreous island were mirroring normal society...
      And sociopaths are good at pretending to be normal, Jose

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    5. Maybe you are right; some of them are so far getting to fool me completely into believing they are regular folks.

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    6. Yes we are all regular folk and you are the special snowflake among the snow. Very typical of you Jose.

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    7. Regular folks that pretend to be frightening. Very funny.

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    8. Could you name a few, while giving examples?

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    9. Well, Ukan is one, but most of them are Anonymous...

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    10. "but then almost everybody pretends to be a callous sociopath here, and many of these ferocious sociopaths fail to get to the core of matters that affect them directly and instead they mingle with one another in the most laughable way"

      lol.

      You need to get out more if you think this place is full of callous sociopaths. Or just walk by a local school yard of 4th graders...

      Sound to me like you are being fucked with, and you don't even know it.

      *tips hat*

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    11. ... Or they change their name at will.

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    12. UKan pretending to be frightening?

      I want what you are smoking...

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    13. As opposed to subnormal folks who pretend to be intelligent, I suppose? Christ, José, it's hard to tell where your bizarre fantasy ends and your plain old idiocy begins.

      I want to know about you, though. What do you do for work? Were you educated? Where, and in what subjects? What about family? Children, wives? All you want to talk about is you, so here's your opportunity. I am all ears.

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    14. I haven't said anything to frighten anyone here. It's never been my intention.

      You came here thinking sociopaths were detatched intellectuals trading undeveloped ideas, but your grasp of psychopaths is far from reality. What you found was a bunch of cunts trying to trick each other, overpower each other, being abusive, demeaning, and acting like a "pack of dogs that turn on each other when nobody else is around to devour". Now you are sitting here surprised. I guess I could expect no less considering you have demonstrated little knowledge of personality disorders in general. How can you go to a psychopath blog and expect anything less than abuse and people acting like children?

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    15. Hey TCO, I rarely bump into you, so maybe you could tell a little about yourself now? :)
      And I would like to know how are you related with sociopathy.
      Jose and PMS could share too.

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    16. Jose, for many people here, the heated debates are netural events. What you are feeling, is what people want you to feel. Ukan nailed it when he said you know little about PDs, let alone psychopathy.

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    17. Hey, here they are. If somebody wanted names, they can start reading here. They bark all at the same time, so you don't have to bother to pay attention to them.

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    18. Mee: you want some data for your statistics?

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    19. Chosen one, did you choose yourself? You must be proud to have been chosen. The competence was hard, I guess.

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    20. José, if you provide data I'll eat my hat.

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    21. Put your hat in the fridge; I would hate it grew mouldy.

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    22. Ah, yes, as expected, then. No data from the incompetent.

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    23. "Chosen one, did you choose yourself? You must be proud to have been chosen. The competence was hard, I guess."

      Cool story bro. Did you gain anything from that exchange at all ?

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    24. many of these ferocious sociopaths fail to get to the core of matters that affect them directly and instead they mingle with one another in the most laughable way, driven by petty thrills

      No, we are trying to get to the core of what you are saying and you keep refusing, again and again, disparaging the questioner rather than the question. I think most of us understand what you are saying... we are just saying you are full of crap until you can close the gaps and relate them to reality.

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  16. Psychology made a lousy job of ASPD definition. But even with that schematic definition anybody would realise that the focus stays always on the social effects of anti-social behaviour, not in the personal problems or sufferings of the subject. The name of the disorder is quite revealing. If psychology became interested in sociopaths it was because society was alarmed, not because sociopaths asked for help.

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    1. The subject doesn't suffer, they inflict suffering so why would they focus on that.

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    2. Because they are supposed to cure them?

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    3. You can't cure people who are not sick. They have tried to "cure" psychopaths, but they are happy to be the way they are and why not. They are not at the losing end of the stick. They are winning.

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    4. There is that fucking word again... "winning"

      Fuck you Ukan

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    5. If sociopaths didn’t ask for help, then why should psychologists think they can help? No psychologist can seriously expect any result from a mandatory treatment. Why then bother to study their cases, to look for treatments, to risk diagnoses? I believe, and I don’t think I’m wrong, they do it to give the public impression that something is being done on the matter, when really nothing is being done.

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    6. What's to be done, José? Would you rob people of success just because you don't think they played fair?

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    7. You should kill sociopaths, they do not suffer but are bad for society which means that they are bad for us. Headshot them as soon as you see the first signs.

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    8. Too bad you always end up the victim instead. I guess everyone deserves a dream.

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    9. Agree. And when you will start this witch hunt, socios will sit calmly so you could aim better.

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    10. Victim? I make 20 000 dollars a month. I live in a house that's worth a million dollars and to top it all off, I'm not going to fuck it all up because I don't have low impulse control. Suck it you bitch.

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    11. Everyone loves a winner

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    12. Oh, sorry. I just assumed someone with such wealth and success would have better ways of spending their time than crying about psychopaths on a psychopath blog; a task usually taken up by bitter victims. Forgive me if I think you are full of shite.

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    13. It's ok, son. Everyone makes mistakes.

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    14. Not in this case. I'm right on the mark. Tell me, what mistake did you make that left you such bitterness against a syndrome that very few people even look at?

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    15. I also do not believe sociopaths do not care about consequences. Some countries with very strict laws have a very low crime rate.

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    16. Sociopaths care very much about consequences; they may say they aren't afraid, but saying is different from feeling.

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    17. It's all plain and evident at sight. You don't need to be very subtle to get it: some people come here to dance in a custome party, using torn pieces of tabloid psychology to dress themselves up.

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    18. And some people come here to vomit up how they think science works by presuming to be better qualified than the people devoting their lives to a subject.

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    19. "They live in present to the extreme, and their feelings are immediate, immature and unsophisticated.....They feel no fear, and thus take reckless risks and commit crimes with little heed to the consequences. They feel no shame or anguish, thus reprimands and punishments have no effect on their behavior. Their behavior is driven by shallower impulses, such as sexual arousal, frustration, boredom, greed, and irritability."


      -Robert Hare
      Without a Conscience

      I'm sure you know more than he does of psychopathy, as well as the rest of us right Jose? Tell me, how many empirical studies were you involved with to refute what the rest of psychologists who devoted their life to studying psychopaths have written?

      Delete
    20. They feel no fear, and thus take reckless risks and commit crimes with little heed to the consequences.

      Wrong. Sociopaths don't jump from buildings without being attached. Why wouldn't they? They don't care about consequences, therefore can't care about what will happen as soon as they land on the ground and the adrenaline of it would be good.

      Delete
    21. Recklessness and little heed to consequences does not equal suicidal.

      How can psychologists who came up with a term be wrong about a term you are coining. You two are redefining psychopathy as a projected image of yourself.

      Delete
    22. Not in this case. I'm right on the mark. Tell me, what mistake did you make that left you such bitterness against a syndrome that very few people even look at?

      You are making assumptions. I gave useful advice. If sociopaths are such a problem to society, you should shoot them in the head as soon as they show the first signs. Sacrifice need to be made.

      Delete
    23. Because they are supposed to cure them?

      Since when does medicine cure anything? That's right... never.

      Medicine manages, and that is all.

      Delete
    24. Its a valid assumption. People making these types of resentful comments towards a certain group of individuals have obviously been personally effected by them.

      Regardless I agree with you. That would be an effective solution. Unfortunately for people like you that will never go beyond fantasy, and fortunately for people like me the disease of compassion and empathy will forever be there to be used against you.

      Delete
  17. Psychology seeks to understand how people function. All people. Being a psychologist it would be hard not to study someone who is bent on malicious behaviour. I don't get why that's difficult for you to grasp, nor why you relentessly bash a field of study you have little comprehension of.

    ReplyDelete
  18. You haven't got the slightest idea what Psychology is. You have no idea what the word "disorder" means, you delude yourself into believing that psichologist think sociopaths have no problems. How can someone be so thick, is really a mistery to me.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Says the one who conflated schizoid personality disorder with schizophrenia.

      How can someone be so thick, is really a mistery to me.

      Delete
    2. A little commons sense would cure you all, like plain aspirins used to cure the natives that had never had a contact with civilisation before taking them.

      Delete
    3. Aspirin and pacific willow bark are not the same thing. The active ingredient is the same, but I think you'll find the two experiences drastically different.

      Delete
    4. I never said psychologists think sociopaths have no problems. I said sociopaths don't think they have any problems. If you think I know nothing of psychology you've done little to back that statement since you refuted nothing I've said on here with facts and only made yourself look foolish as far as your own statements, such as the one above that Postmodern just mentioned. Nobody will let that go by the way because the difference of schizoid and schizophrenia is pretty basic knowledge in this place. The fact you came in here preaching and acting like your better than everyone else makes you a target. The fact that you are not even close to the level of the other readers besides some confused molestation victim makes you just another notch on the board of a long line of narcissists who've been humbled here.

      You preach against power, manipulation, and being malicious on a socipath site? Go to lovefraud. They will be receptive of your views. Preaching against that here won't do anything but make people want to fuck with you.

      What makes ignorance is someone who is too prideful to learn. For you learning something from anyone is a step beneath you. Instead you try to fake your wisdom and think that people here are foolish enough to buy into it. You are wrong. Nobody in here goes for that rubbish, but idiot victims who are suckers for narcissistic pulp with no substance.

      You are not a novelty. People like you come in here every couple of months and they all leave humbled. They all say the same things you have said.

      Delete
    5. *Taps fingers on desk*

      josé javier,

      I am trying hard not to be bored with you, but fact of the matter is, Ukan and Post alone in the last....hour or so have made you look like a fool. And I really haven't seen much effort on their part to even try with you. But keep going, I do like the look for your name. I like fancy names... as you can tell.

      *bats eyelashes*

      Delete
    6. José would fit in at Lovefraud pretty well.

      Delete
  19. If sociopaths have a flexible sense of self i.e amorphous sense of self, from where do they get their power to act?
    Is if a needs based action, totally, or almost totally?

    ReplyDelete
  20. It's impulsive based action. They see something they want, or get an idea in their head to do something. Without much thought they jump right into it. The sense of self doesn't have much to do with it.

    The amorphous sense of self has to do with the way sociopaths interact with people. They will figure out what you admire in a person and what your idiosyncrasies are and mimic them. Since most people project themselves on others they are blind to what sociopaths are doing. Sociopaths are very outgoing and perceptive on idiosyncrasies. They hold certain characters they have seen in their life and play them out when they meet the type of person it will be effective on. Most don't do any of it consciously they do it subconsciously. It's part of who they are.

    ReplyDelete
  21. many of these ferocious sociopaths fail to get to the core of matters that affect them directly and instead they mingle with one another in the most laughable way, driven by petty thrills

    Let's be honest. You have a site called Sociopathworld has been up for around four years. In the years it's been up people have trickled in that are borderlines, sociopaths, narcissists, victims, gothic wierdos and autistic loners. In that time I've personally witnessed countless people come in here saying that they are sociopaths and that all of the regulars who are sociopaths are not, because psychopathy is something else that they have defined themselves. They claim that they are the True Sociopath. The sociopath that doesn't do evil things to people because they don't waste their time with such trite. They say that psychopaths are good guys, like themselves that are just a little different and that everyone here that display psychopathic tendencies are all just putting on a show.

    Next thing that happends is that all the "fake" psychopaths manipulate them, embarrass them, and turn all the readers against them spending day after day from their smartphones playing games with their heads until one of those people hits a nerve or discovers their real identity and for the next few days people torment their family and friends and they delete every fucking comment they ever made here. This has happend countless times. Countless. Not one. Not two. Not even five. Countless times. Doubt me check the history here. Check the forums and look at the graveyard of deleted comments, because those people left nothing behind but regrets. This is a bowl of sharks not psychforums or some nerd forum where people are fucking around talking about wizards and dragons in some role playing game. Don't underestimate the people here Juan, because you are just another sucker in a long line a casualties. People coming on here trying to play sociopath don't last long. The only people left standing here are the worse of the bunch.

    I'm telling you this because I know you won't take heed to it. Nobody ever does. We tell people exactly how we are going to fuck them over and they still fall for it, every single time. A lot of us left the comment section so that a person like you would come in. Now that you are here it's going to be a feeding frenzy. When you leave we are probably going to turn on each other out of boredom, wait a month or two for another one of your types, some rape victim, a over dramatic goth, or some autistic star trek nerd who thinks they are a vulcan to come in and it will start over again. You aren't special. You are just fresh meat.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No matter how many times I see this expressed, it never gets old.

      Delete
    2. How can you guys sit here and be proud of being trash. That's exactly what this is. A manifesto of trash.

      Delete
    3. What do you like about it, Post?

      Delete
    4. I once met a man who made art entirely out of trash.

      Delete
    5. No, they're the garbage men.

      Delete
    6. You're so clever, my love. :)

      Delete
    7. I like that it encapsulates the cyclical nature of our little community. The forum has added an interesting dimension which didn't exist previously, but the dynamic remains the same. Periods of inactivity punctuated with violent debate whenever some No True Sociopath spouting tryhard shows up.

      Delete
    8. Raven Why is your other blog gone?

      Delete
    9. Because I'm currently under investigation. ;)

      Delete
    10. You're being really vague, baby. :(

      Delete
    11. Someone went on my facebook, trying to "expose" me as a sociopath. They linked my blogged to said exposure. I don't want my nieces and nephews reading that blog.
      Other than that... no one even gave a shit what this person had to say, and they all gave me a group hug! :D

      Delete
    12. Oh well I guess Some People Seem To Have All The Luck... makes sense now, haha.

      Delete
    13. Yeah. It was kind of sweet smirking moment for me. I knew eventually someone would try it... and I'm happy to finally get to disappoint them.

      Besides... everyone on my facebook already knew I come to this blog. I actually posted a few SW blog links on there. I also used to have it in my, "Blogs I Follow", way back in the day. Anyone who thinks they can take me out like that, has greatly underestimated me,

      Delete
    14. Your facebook has always been easy to find. I see you made it more private recently ;)

      Delete
    15. Glad you did disappoint them. ♥

      Delete
    16. Actually... I made it more private ages ago. Then FB switched over to a new format, and I didn't bother to check if all the privacy stuff was still in tact.

      Yes... it has always been easy to find. That should have been the first clue that I didn't give a shit, because no one on my facebook will give a shit.

      Delete
    17. Yeah, that timeline format is bullshit and creepy. I never switched over to it.

      Delete
    18. Mine switched on its own. How creepy is that? Mwahahaha

      Delete
    19. I think at one point it told me it was going to happen against my will, but hasn't happened yet!

      Delete
    20. You're lucky, I had to wait ages before I was able to do it. I realised how crappy it was though.

      Delete
    21. Goddamn Facebook rapists!

      Delete
    22. Ooooo let me have access to your facebook, my love. I want to stalk all your girlfriends!

      Delete
    23. But baby, you're the only one...♥

      Delete
    24. Heh... You're a terrible liar, E. I'm still going to marry you some day, though. :*

      Delete
  22. Jose, I'd like to ask you for some legitimacy as far as your history is concerned... I understand that you have valuable information and ideas, but even teachers will introduce themselves at the beginning of class by presenting their history and credentials. I'm just wondering a bit more about who you are and what brings you here.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Reader wrote...
    My understanding of what happens:
    Category 1 feels the pain, then thinks "how long will this go on, why me? oh shit? get away, get away!"...


    hmm, tricky. i'm definitely category 3 when i'm meditating. however, i gravitate to category 2 in boring business meetings. and it's category 1 all the way on the bus to work!

    ReplyDelete
  24. ME wrote..
    It's interesting too that this lecture was apparently given at a Buddhist conference. I have never bothered to learn much about Buddhism, but people have frequently remarked here on how the sociopath's detachment from self and lack of anxiety regarding outcomes is what many Buddhists hope to accomplish in order to achieve Nirvana. And sociopaths just happen to be born that way.


    the difference is empathy.

    achieving awareness, or enlightenment, requires letting go of attachment to concepts, including emotions. you'd continue to feel and empathize, but without the attachment to the emotions or to the suffering, without experiencing the suffering, your own or others'. enlightened empathy?

    ReplyDelete
  25. Statistically in every group of people has to be a potential narcissist, geek, schizoid, psychopath, wanabe, etc.
    As I see UKan was considered rather dull before Jose showed up. And Jose will remain in his place in this community until some new person will take his place (try to imagine it....).
    I have to say that we have a well developed community right now (we even have an aspie wife :) ).

    ReplyDelete

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