Thursday, September 20, 2012

The sociopath's 'due north'

It is often said that sociopaths have no moral compass. But what if there is no such thing as a moral compass? What if instead, there are multiple ‘due norths’?

That seems to be the unspoken implication of an article i read recently about morality. The article features Jonathan Haidt’s ‘Moral Foundations’ theory, which purports to explain why morality varies among different cultures on the one hand while still showing some striking similarities on the other hand. The theory suggests that there are five universal foundations. Each culture in turn 'selects' a few of those foundations and builds traditions, norms and rituals upon them to construct a commonly shared morality. The five foundations in brief are:

1) Harm/care, related to our long evolution as mammals with attachment systems and an ability to feel (and dislike) the pain of others. This foundation underlies virtues of kindness, gentleness, and nurturing.

2) Fairness/reciprocity, related to the evolutionary process of reciprocal altruism. This foundation generates ideas of justice, rights, and autonomy.

3) Ingroup/loyalty, related to our long history as tribal creatures able to form shifting coalitions. This foundation underlies virtues of patriotism and self-sacrifice for the group. It is active anytime people feel that it's "one for all, and all for one."

4) Authority/respect, shaped by our long primate history of hierarchical social interactions. This foundation underlies virtues of leadership and followership, including deference to legitimate authority and respect for traditions.

5) Purity/sanctity, shaped by the psychology of disgust and contamination. This foundation underlies religious notions of striving to live in an elevated, less carnal, more noble way. It underlies the widespread idea that the body is a temple which can be desecrated by immoral activities and contaminants (an idea not unique to religious traditions).
Using the American political spectrum as a kind of case study, Haidt suggests that liberals tend to value harm/care and fairness above all else, while conservatives emphasize ingroup loyalty, authority and purity. He takes pains to suggest neither value grouping is objectively better than the other, merely different. I agree with him since there's no good evidence to suggest otherwise. What’s more, not only are values and moral biases at least in part, genetically heritable, the particular society a person is born into very often also plays an decisive role. What those two facts make clear is that conscious choice is not a relevant factor when it comes to generating most people’s sense of ‘right’ and ‘wrong.’ As one author puts it, since most people cannot see what comes before (genetics, history and culture), they assume what comes after (their beliefs, biases and morality) are freely chosen. It’s obvious they are not. Moreover, not only are the moral biases that many empaths swear, live and die by not freely chosen, they are not even rational. The evidence coming in from research on morality indicates that emotions, gut reactions, play a leading role in moral judgments and that rationalization of those judgments follow. The human brain is a belief factory, and part of its job is to rationally justify moral feelings.Iif people want to reach a conclusion, they usually find a way to do so that has little to do with anything resembling sound theory or evidence; in short, it has little to do with reality. This partly explains why sociopaths can see the hypocrisy and absurdity that often passes for moral debate.

Which brings us back to the subject. The sociopath is born with much less in the way of moral biases. We don’t need to justify our actions to ourselves, although we may go through the motions of justification with others because we know that’s what they expect and doing so is sometimes useful. More importantly, it’s clear to us in a way that it might not be for most empaths that when it comes to morality, there are as many ‘due norths’ as there are people. Until convincing evidence to the contrary comes in, there’s no reason to fix our so called broken moral compasses. We don’t need no stinkin' moral compass. Reality based thinking works just fine.

197 comments:

  1. I don't have a morality, as such, but I do value freedom a lot more than other people. Most people, I'm guessing, put other things before it because of their social values.

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    1. "Reality based thinking works just fine". As a matter of survival, it does work just fine. Even more so, as you are quicker to make determinations of what resources you need and are therefore quicker to obtain those resources for yourself. What happens when the competition catches up and the resorces dry up? The blood letting begins and the cycle starts over. Do you think that you would find yourself bored to death in the Garden of Eden?

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  2. Why can't we all just get along here people? lol, Its almost as if sociopaths need to make it crystal clear that normals suck ass!! ha ha ha, ok we get it already!! However i happened to agree with parts of the article but not so much others. I might sound like a bit of a sap here, but i like the fact i have morals. I don't think that makes me better than a sociopath, just different and perhaps easier to get along with. I never thought i was better than certain members of my family, just a nicer fucking version!!! :) We had so many of these types of debates. Sometimes its best just to agree to disagree.
    The only way i can try to describe my own experience which is kind of hard for me to explain without a cup of coffee (iv given it up)....anyway i just sought of knew in my gut that how i was being raised was "odd" even though within the family that was "normal" for us. I just didn't have certain things in me so to speak so i was percieved as the "different one". The "sensitive" one, just because i could feel guilt, remorse, love, and all the other emotions an empath is capable of. And i hated being singled out!! Home was almost like living with a pack of wolves. No one batted an eye lid at a lie, or stealing, or wounding another, it was the "norm". No apologies were ever made, funerals were a time to grab as much as the deceased possesions as you could. There was no shame, no limits, no loyalty and no rules really.
    I understand that every body is different just as empaths are different from other empaths, the same must be true for sociopaths.
    But down to my own experience as messed up as it is, (too much) normal to me is abnormal, and as much as i like a certain level of normality in my own life as an adult i get increasingly uncomfortable if abnormality isn't present somewhere, hence my strange sex life lol. And that made absolutely zero sense i know!
    Maybe what im trying to put across is morals are needed to some degree, even if a person doesn't "feel" that moral they should try to live by certain ones in order to get along. Or else there is just total bedlam.
    Can you imagine a world full of sociopaths?? What would that look like i wonder?

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  3. Can you imagine a world full of sociopaths?? What would that look like i wonder?

    Hollywood? Wall Street? The United States Congress?

    Seriously, as I’ve commented before, as far as I’m concerned, it’s more about pro-being yourself and anti-be like someone else. Which is fine for most sub groups of people, but when it comes to sociopaths, not so much. As Lola mentioned, when sociopathy is discussed, the bottom line seems to be run away. That’s it. I can understand why they feel that way of course. They want to protect themselves, which is only natural. But reading book after book, article after article, blog post after blog post, with them all saying essentially the same thing, RUN AWAY, is not helpful to the sociopath. Which is why this blog is relatively unique.

    Curiously though, it’s definitely mainstream to talk about the intelligent sociopath’s point of view if you never use the term sociopath, as authors from Machiavelli to Robert Greene of “The 48 Laws of Power” fame demonstrate.

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  4. Interesting question, Tinkerbelle.

    I'm interested to hear that there were no rules in your home, given sociopaths' desire for power. Perhaps they preferred establishing power in more subtle ways? There is more potential power to be had in maneuvering people with unspoken rules than in an explicit system. My experience of sociopaths in groups is they tend to like being in a free-seeming structure, and establishing control by finding ways to shape people's opinions. (Actually, I believe this is how current first-world government systems rule.) But when I've seen this work, it's been because most people were easy-to-manipulate empaths. Would such a system still work in a group primarily formed of sociopaths?

    I'd be interested in hearing if some of the sociopaths on this site would envision a particular type of governement for a world with a sociopath-majority.

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  5. Honestly, morality is an evolutionary advantage. It helps weed out destructive elements, whether they're other empaths or sociopaths who aren't intelligent enough to submit to the rule of law and common decency. It makes for a stronger, more unified, and less turbulent social unit--with more staying power than any group not bound by such tenets.

    I don't think anyone can objectively say that Wall Street, Hollywood, or any other place for that matter, accurately represents an all-sociopath culture. For starters, there's no evidence that any particular member of these groups, or even a statistically significant number, are sociopaths. We're on the outside looking in, and we have no idea how these people justify whatever perceptibly immoral actions they might be taking, if any. I've challenged Pager, and by extension the rest of you, to provide any sort of proof to the constant claims of a wall street, etc, dominated by sociopaths, but none of you have been able to provide it. It's all smoke, mirrors, and wishful thinking. Reality based thinking, people. Evidence. Proof. C'mon. :)

    Second, the structure of wall street, hollywood, etc., hinges on a system created for and likely by empaths. It's my personal opinion that they're only stable because of enforced moral standards meant to appease the empathetic masses. In short, morality is the glue that holds it all together, while the hunger for profit is what drives it. It's impossible to say what would happen if morality-based laws were removed from the picture, but I have a feeling it would be a lot like the turbulent parts of Africa, with a new fool proclaiming himself king every other week.

    In my opinion, political pressure designed to keep the empathetic masses appeased is what makes it possible for sociopaths to lead stable, structured lives, and even succeed. Those who fail to comply live shitty lives barely worth mentioning. Thoughts? Rebuttals?

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    1. I smell what you steppin' in brother

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    2. I love how even sociopaths dont want to take credit for wall street or hollywood. Maybe we just need to agree that a sewer is a sewer, But in this case the shit is green

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  6. I don't think anyone can objectively say that Wall Street, Hollywood, or any other place for that matter, accurately represents an all-sociopath culture…

    I was being sarcastic.

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    1. I dont know.... Those institutions are pretty perfect models for high functioning sociopathy? Can you name anything about how they function that is Inconsistent with sociopathy? The few bones they throw to love or cOmpassion are always strategic and never genuine

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  7. Oh, one last thing...
    M.E., morality may not be absolute in a universal sense, but the fundamentals are certainly absolute in "normal" individuals, regardless of race or culture. Though the details differ, they all revolve around the fact that there is a specific way in which others should be treated that transcends basic self-interest. People may argue about what that way is, but they all agree that at least others deserve deference and respect for reasons beyond "they will kill me if I don't offer it."

    That is the central component to the compass, and it's the true "north." The landscape differs, but the direction is the same. Moral debate represents the paths we take to get to the pole, which can vary greatly depending on where we are in life, what culture we grew up in, etc.

    But I can see how you have trouble understanding that, since your compass has no north, and morality isn't a tangible thing like a rock or a club. You're absolutely right that morality isn't real in that sense, but that doesn't make it any less significant--or important for the human race.

    There's a reason it's spread across all races and cultures, missing only in those suffering from genetic mutations. And it ain't cuz it's useless homie.

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  8. Sorry, it's tough to tell when you're being sarcastic in text, especially when it's a point many others here feel is valid.

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  9. oh maybe i didn't explain myself very well, its the lack of caffiene lol. What i meant be "no rules", was that nothing was set in stone, the goal posts were constantly moved. Of course i had a curfew as a kid, but not so much for my welfare, more to help with chores. lol. Thats just a basic example. Its far too time consuming to draw out and go into in detail. Of course their was control, but that can manifester in different forms. Mind games for instance. They were rife in my environment. There was a heirarchy as well, my aunt always joked i was at the bottom of the food chain! lmao.

    Oh and Daniel i could sense your sarcasm!! :)

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  10. Maybe I am supposed to ignore Peter Pan and his half-thought out fiats like everyone else on this site seems to, but being a normal is only an evolutionary advantage if you value stability above all else in a society. Maybe that means that, according to this article, Peter Pan values ingroup/loyalty and authority/respect more than other values. That's fine. But sociopaths force innovation, as uncomfortable as that may be to Peter's happy-go-lucky utopia ideals. If you want to look at an example of innovative stagnation in a society, look at ancient Egypt or (until recently) China.

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  11. Give me some substance, Anon.

    How do sociopaths drive innovation beyond what's needed for them to live comfortably? Do you think a sociopath is capable of taking up a 'cause,' so to speak, or to advance the state of knowledge, etc, simply for the sake of doing it? What would provide this kind of motivation for a sociopath?

    If you ask me, innovative stagnation occurs when people have what they want, which is the point at which I think a sociopath would stop. If you disagree with me, please, by all means, tell me why.

    I assure you I've put quite a bit of thought into all of this. Don't hate because you can't form a sound rebuttal. :)

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    1. I take up a cause all the time. It is for my own benefit, but surprisingly effective at making you acceptable to the group you target. Well, maybe it isn't taking up a cause so much as putting on a show lol.

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  12. Actually, I can see how sociopaths would drive innovation in a competitive environment.

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  13. Innovation...you just need to be bright and determined in my eyes...and maybe a tad ruthless when needed. lol...oh wow! i love being simple :)

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    1. And Tink, i find it helps to have a happy song in your heart

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  14. Someone who shall not be named once wrote that those not tied-up in survival tasks (like hunting or growing food) will resort to surrogate activities to fill their leisure time.

    I see no reason why a sociopath would by necessity be inhibited from seeking glory or self-fulfilment by advancing a cause or inventing something useful. I think you are confusing sociopaths with internet trolls.

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  15. Well, based on the media portrayal, the medical portrayal, and every single post on this blog, I'd have to disagree with you. I don't know what inhibits them, but nobody here seems to have ANY interest in ANYTHING other than manipulation, control, power, money, pleasure, etc, and anything they can use to acquire it.

    If these needs are all met, I don't see these people going above and beyond in pursuit of a cause. I think they'd be more likely to get caught up in their manipulations, power plays, etc. And even when they are contributing, I see them only contributing what is most beneficial to them personally--not necessarily what's best for the world or their social group.

    Question for you sociopaths out there...
    If you were feeling motivated, and you had a choice to develop two devices in your lifetime--one that would make you disgustingly rich and powerful, and another that would improve the quality of life for everyone on the planet but net nothing, not even recognition, for you--which would you choose?

    Remember, this is hypothetical, so none of that false dichotomy shit please.

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  16. And just to make it a little more interesting... let's say the device that will make you disgustingly rich is highly addictive and will lower the quality of life for any and all who use it.

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  17. Peter, empaths can feel a spectrum of emotions, nuanced and often contradictory, all at one time and quite comfortably. But the output, intellectually (the rationalizing of their emotions) is often one singular belief. It is very uncomfortable for an empathy to be forced to hold opposing beliefs or rationalizations.

    Think of sociopaths as the opposite. They can hold a spectrum of 'truths' and rationalizations - more nuanced than empaths and, yes, often in conflict - in their consciousness without much discomfort. But what sociopaths 'feel' as an output is not usually nuanced or complex. And if it ever is, it’s uncomfortable.

    If you accept that humans have two different operant systems - emotion and reasoning - then the difference and definition of empath versus sociopath lies in the sophistication of one system over another and to what extent.

    Which leads me to my point: You assume that you know what sociopaths want and that it is one certain thing. Empaths believe there is one way to win the game, one goal that leads to pleasure. And when pleasure and comfort is achieved, everyone stops and doesn’t start up again unless something interferes with their contentment. An empath’s motivation to act is emotion so I guess that’s why an empathy would assume that the same is true for a sociopath. An empathy would stop and bask in the face of their accomplishment. Socipaths get their kicks from the hunt, the process – at least more so than an empathy. So after innovation…we want more and more and more. That’s what gets us in trouble. Looking at Russia in the dead of winter and not being satisfied with conquering the rest of the world and thinking, “okay, now we’ll try for that one”.

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  18. So to answer your question, Peter: A sociopath wouldn't see a choice between the two. We would find a way to invent both.

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  19. Impossible, Sarah. In this hypothetical world, the choices offered are the only choices. God himself, assuming he exists, couldn't find a way to do both.

    Quite being evasive, Sarah. I realize you're afraid to answer the question, but I have confidence in you. Give it a shot. :)

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  20. Not to mention, the supposition that you could do both when a choice has clearly been presented is quite irrational. It assumes that any sociopath would have an infinite amount of intelligence and resources, which "reality based thinking" dictates is clearly bullshit. I suggest you put your delusions aside for a minute and take the question seriously, or don't answer it at all.

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  21. I take it seriously. I just don't trust your judgement to see all the possibilites...even in a hypothetical world of your own making. Sorry.

    My point wasn't to illustrate 'infinite intelligence'. It was illustrate a unique malleability that would want individual wealth at the expense of others AND the assurance of the propagation of the species (which also benefits the self).

    Hypothetically, as you ask me now, I value both equally. They both seem like they could offer very good outcomes. What I would do in reality would depend upon the circumstances. I think you see a sociopath as someone who would cut off their nose to spite their face.

    Maybe you choose based on what you want and that is somehow linked to how feel and it is fixed. But I'm more likely to chose based on prospect of success and the least amount of effort for the largest impact. Maybe you think you've given enough information for me to answer that question. But you haven't. Maybe all you would need to know is 'which one will make me feel good about myself?'

    I don't work that way. As far as I'm concerned you might as well have asked, what kind of car do you want? Blue or Red?

    Um. Maybe you always pick Blue, cause darnit that’s just the kind of guy you are. But I want to know which one works best for what I’m doing at the time.

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    1. Sometimes i think empaths like me delude themselves into thinking what motivates them is much different than sociopaths. Its just that we get pleasure out of making others happy, and suffer when others suffer. But in the end we are both doing what feels good on some level. As for the value of emotions, that has been amply covered in the first generation of star trek, why the rehash?

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  22. That's an awful lot to say just to avoid answering a question.

    I take it seriously. I just don't trust your judgement to see all the possibilites...even in a hypothetical world of your own making. Sorry.
    Hahaha... that makes so much sense! With a mind like yours, I'm sure you would find a way to do both!

    My point wasn't to illustrate 'infinite intelligence'. It was illustrate a unique malleability that would want individual wealth at the expense of others AND the assurance of the propagation of the species (which also benefits the self).
    Irrelevant. This was about choice, because in the real world, people are forced to make choices. You can't always do both, and anyone who thinks you can is, quite frankly, an idiot.

    Hypothetically, as you ask me now, I value both equally. They both seem like they could offer very good outcomes. What I would do in reality would depend upon the circumstances. I think you see a sociopath as someone who would cut off their nose to spite their face.
    So in my hypothetical situation, where all things are equal except what I mentioned, you would freeze and do nothing? Very enlightening, and a bit pathetic. I'm sure you're smart enough to do something rather than sit around with your thumb up your ass because you can't do both. At least I would hope so!

    Maybe you choose based on what you want and that is somehow linked to how feel and it is fixed. But I'm more likely to chose based on prospect of success and the least amount of effort for the largest impact. Maybe you think you've given enough information for me to answer that question. But you haven't. Maybe all you would need to know is 'which one will make me feel good about myself?'
    This makes tons of sense. Maybe I choose based on what you want, but you choose based on impact, which couldn't possibly be something you want, now could it?

    I don't work that way. As far as I'm concerned you might as well have asked, what kind of car do you want? Blue or Red?

    Um. Maybe you always pick Blue, cause darnit that’s just the kind of guy you are. But I want to know which one works best for what I’m doing at the time.

    I think the exercise is fairly straight forward. All things equal, including function, I would choose blue. You would make a choice, too.

    You're working much too hard to complicate this. It's very simple.

    But... what else can I expect from a sociopath? A straight answer? Never.

    I'm giving up on you. You don't have the mental faculties to answer this question or coherently defend your "position," if you can even call it that. This would go on for eternity.

    So cheers! And thanks for playing!

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  23. There is an old saying "Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful."

    For this site it should go something like "Complimentary are the insults of Peter Pan, because he only resorts to ad hominem attacks when you have exposed him for the fraud he is."

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  24. And do note that I understand you're trying to tell me the issue would depend entirely on which would have the best effort-to-effect efficiency, and that you wouldn't base your choice on personal rewards. Unfortunately, that has no implications in a situation where such things are inherently equal. To assume that it is is to assume that not only do you not care about other people, but you also don't care about yourself or your experiences, or both. If that's how you really feel, you're not a sociopath--you're a robot.

    So yeah. 'Til next time.

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  25. Nah, I resort to insults when people prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they're true. I call 'em like I see em. Quite trying to get me riled up. :)

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  26. Peter, I thought you were just looking for perspective. I had no idea that you actually wanted an answer to such a silly question. You want me to treat the question seriously? And give you a serious answer? You want to know what I would pretend do in a pretend world were one can only have the two possibilites from which to choose, offered by the God Peter, and apparently no resources or foresight to change or guide anything?

    Well then my answer would be this:

    I would invent a cross between a unicorn and a fairy and fly around as free as the wind while my uni-fairy spouts magic fairy dust out of her butt and onto the population below. Mind control fairy dust that allows me both to control thoughts and actions, by which I would end all hunger and wars in the world and restore television programming back to the hay day when there were shows that had writers instead of just people eating bugs to win a new Ipod.

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  27. I would invent a cross between a unicorn and a fairy and fly around as free as the wind while my uni-fairy spouts magic fairy dust out of her butt and onto the population below. Mind control fairy dust that allows me both to control thoughts and actions, by which I would end all hunger and wars in the world and restore television programming back to the hay day when there were shows that had writers instead of just people eating bugs to win a new Ipod.

    LMAO!

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  28. i am well and truely confused....(which i admit doesn't require much effort)...however i want some fairy dust too!!!! lmao :)

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  29. Tink, I think Peter asked a hypothetical question to which there could be no good answer and Sarah decided to make a joke out of it. Besides, I want some of that pixie dust as well. Can you hook me up with your dealer, because we both know you know one. lol

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  30. Get rich.
    Save the world.

    Two very good answers.

    She just didn't like the implications it would have on the discussion.

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  31. Daniel LMAO.....il have you know ive never taken a drug in my life (well at least not an illegal one)

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  32. "I have mental problems" boo hoo hoo.....aaarrrrggghhh...take me to rehab!!
    (Dan...thats all you have to fake to get the really good drugs ha ha ha) no dodgy back street dealer required, instead a sexy little nurse will dose you up to your eyeballs and send you on your way to euphoria! :)

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  33. Peter, you weren’t looking for facts or to entertain a different point of view. That was obvious when you said you didn’t want anyone calling your hypothetical a false dichotomy, which revealed that you already knew that’s exactly what it was. I could be wrong but it sounded to me like the point of your question was to prove to yourself that sociopaths are emotional, psychological and evolutionary dead ends and that you’d like someone here to agree with you. That, and I know you sometimes like to argue just to argue. The latter part is cool. We all have our hobbies and sometimes yours is to fuck with people just to fuck with them. Fair enough. The former… well, you’ve proven it sufficiently to yourself, no? In the end, isn’t that what matters most, that you believe precisely what you want to believe?

    My response isn’t designed to generate another long ass debate about nothing, btw. I’m not going there today, hence the jokes. Just throwing my 2 cents in, no more, no less.

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  34. Tink:

    I love drug induced euphoria. It’s the most real kind there is! lol Where can I find a naughty nurse who’ll hook me up?

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  35. Hold on. Let me scroll up to see what I actually said.

    Ah, yes. My point was that innovation driven by sociopaths is restricted to the options with the most self-interest. It's true. You know it. I know it. Sarah knows it. Denying it would contradict almost everything else you folks say.

    You don't do things just to be nice.
    You don't do things just to help people.

    If you did, you wouldn't be sociopaths. I was attempting to illustrate that a sociopath would readily take society two steps back so that he could personally take one step forward. Isn't this your collective mode of thinking? Isn't that a big part of what makes you sociopaths and not rational normals?

    Yet Sarah turned it into some long and tedious dog and pony show. Sure, it was a little amusing to watch, but I knew it wasn't going anywhere. She wouldn't dare admit that something about sociopaths, and thus herself, could be bad, no matter how obvious it was. So irrationality, contradiction, and blatant nonsense ensued.

    I remember a while back, a poster said they considered themselves a sociopath, but they try to lead a good life and help people. The overwhelming response, including from you was, "Why on earth would a sociopath do that?"

    Indeed, why would they?

    My hypothetical put the issue in front of her in a way that couldn't be denied, so she attempted to use some of that equivocal sociopath hocus pocus to avoid answering while appearing as though she had, but it all falls apart when you examine it rationally.

    You're right, I wasn't looking for an alternate viewpoint, because there isn't one. None of you will deny putting the self first, so why would I expect anything different? Now if there had been a true alternate viewpoint that addressed the supreme selfishness of the sociopath instead of trying to whisk it away into unicorn fairy land, I would have loved to have heard it. But instead, it's deny deny deny, flood the comments with irrelevant nonsense. Personally, I take that to mean that you folks can't even articulate why exactly you think you're good for society. I'm open to the possibility if you can back it up, but none of you ever do. As a group, you make bold assumptions about being the only capable leaders, blah blah blah, but nothing solid. Most of you fail to address points and try to bluff your way through everything. But what else can I expect, really?

    It's not difficult to choose between two options in a hypothetical. It's a matter of preference, and if you're a sentient being, you have the ability to choose, and such choices always say something about you as a person.

    Being heterosexual, if I absolutely had to choose, would I suck a dick or take it up the ass? I don't want to do either, and the thought of answering is awful, but I think I'd rather take it up the ass than have another guy's cock in my mouth. That's where things I like go. Things I don't like (AKA shit) spend their time in my ass.

    See? It's not very hard, and it gives you insight into the way my mind works.

    (Laugh all you want at the example, by the way. Have a field day.)

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  36. Basically, the hypothetical was a test.

    Option 1 is sociopathic.
    Option 2 is not sociopathic.

    Answering is a battle between two conflicting images, which Sarah was incapable of resolving. You can't answer option 2 and still claim to be a sociopath. You can't answer option 1 and claim you're good for society without further rational explanation.

    (I'd love to hear such an explanation. In fact, I've been begging to hear this for a long time.)

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  37. (Laugh all you want at the example, by the way. Have a field day.)

    Thanks man, I will! lol

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  38. Who is Peter Pan talking about: "deny deny deny, flood the comments with irrelevant nonsense"

    "you make bold assumptions:

    "Most of you fail to address points and try to bluff your way through everything. But what else can I expect, really?"

    Sounds like one of his personalities is trying to communicate with another via the comments of this website. How bizarre. I guess that is the sort of behavior that makes him an upstanding citizen that will lead us to the next golden age if only he can explain to us sociopaths slowly enough so that we'll finally get it through our thick thick skulls how we should have all been killed as babies.

    Peter, your assumption that people acting in their own self interest is a negative for society is completely refuted by 85% of modern economic literature (and ficitonalized by ayn rand in books that have resurged in popularity since Obama has been elected president). The other 15% of economic literature takes your stance, that we should all hold hands and sing choruses of Kumbaya. That's fine. There are smarter men than you making your arguments and there are smarter men than me making my arguments. But just because some people don't want to rehash through all of that with someone whose starting position is sociopaths are the bane of society (and who conveniently represents only positive aspects of his position and negative aspects of others's positions) doesn't mean that we aren't aware of those arguments, or are willing to recite them to someone who could be relied upon to give them a fair hearing.

    But you don't want to hear arguments anyway. You just want to be a parasite, provoking others to waste their time on someone as insignificant as you by refuting your half-baked arguments. Maybe that is what one of your personalities is trying to tell the other, that your questions are falling on deaf ears for a very good reason. Or maybe I am one of your personalities. Better listen to me, just in case I have some inside information. Pop quiz -- mother's maiden name?

    ReplyDelete
  39. Strawman plus attempted play on perceived insecurities = fail. :)

    Also, 98.6% of statistics are made up on the spot, 73.2% of people believe them because they're idiots, and 86.99996969444879% are actually stupid enough to think their approximations are accurate, and 90% of people think they're being funny or clever when they're not.

    Are you getting a kick out of this? I think I'm starting to enjoy it.

    I have a suggestion. Why don't you stop wasting your time writing stupid shit like the above and tell me why you personally believe sociopaths are beneficial for society or the next evolution of man, depending on your particular flavor of crazy. Nobody but Daniel has ever tried, and I accepted his assertions about a sociopath being adept at making a corporation profitable, etc. Sure doesn't sound like the mean old boogie man nazi Peter Pan we're hearing about now, does it?

    Nah, you just don't have an answer, so you don't answer. I just want to know how justify these beliefs, being supremely rational and all. Is that too much to ask? :)

    ReplyDelete
  40. Correction--How you justify these beliefs.

    ReplyDelete
  41. As a non-sociopath, I can say I've found sociopaths really helpful in my personal development.

    I've been manipulated and maneuvered by various people thoughout my life. Many sorts of non-sociopaths have proven effective manipulators with me, but not in so focused a manner as sociopaths have, since their manipulations were the most deliberate and calculated. That extreme focus made it easier to see the manipulations, and thus to analyze them.

    Sociopaths have taken advantage of me at various times. Each time, I examined the situation carefully--my emotional reactions, my responses, how people were turned against either me or a colleague--and on each subsequent encounter my reactions became smarter. I learned to see how social interactions could be thought of as a chess-game. I found subtle ways to expose the sociopath where they weren't given the chance to publically retaliate by making me look aggressive or stupid. I learned to plant counter-rumours calculated to discredit the sociopath's rumours. I learned ways to set boundaries with the sociopath--to make it clear that if they were to maneuver more than a certain amount, I would erode schemes I was so far leaving alone. I learned to enjoy these games quite as much as the sociopath. Now, it's quite difficult for a sociopath to out-maneuver me.

    These skills have proven not only helpful for dealing with sociopaths, but for dealing with manipulative environments and gossip in general.

    I feel this ability to teach us empaths The Game by being our sparring partners is potentially a really important contribution sociopaths have to offer us. However, for some reason, it seems like not all that many empaths are currentently benefitting from them in this way.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thats because we are too busy having our lives destroyed. Sparring partner? Geez. Aint there any psychopaths out there willing to take this one on?

      Delete
  42. That's the stuff I want to hear. :)

    ReplyDelete
  43. "My experience of sociopaths in groups is they tend to like being in a free-seeming structure, and establishing control by finding ways to shape people's opinions. (Actually, I believe this is how current first-world government systems rule.)"

    See WANTED the comic, not the movie. It's the story of what happens when the villians beat the shit out of the superheros and take over.

    ReplyDelete
  44. Tink, In my world the fairy dust is not an illegal drug. But, like the force, you should respect it and use it with caution and care. And bake into brownies, 'cause it kinda tastes like toffee and that would be delicious.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Peter, Peter, Peter.

    First of all if it came down to the two choices you posed: suck a dick or take it up the backside, you too would find a way to do both. I believe in you, Peter.

    Also, read the post one or two before this one. The checklist thing? You see where it says IMPULSIVE?

    Do you know what that means? It's a little misleading, because it's manifestation is different for sociopaths. What I'm trying to tell you this entire time is that WE DO NOT DECIDE THINGS LIKE THAT UNTIL WE GET TO THAT POINT. It is not in our nature to commit ourselves to some hypothetical cock sucking until the situation arises (forgive the word usage there) We like/need to evaluate things in real time, but will prepare for all contingencies (that we can foresee). Hello, flexible personality structure anyone? It's like a patient impulsiveness, we wait until the moment is right for something - anything. And whatever opportunity comes first, wins. But you don't get it, you want me to choose something now that is not only imaginary but can't be evaluated in real time. Nope. Not gonna happen. But, what sociopaths will do if it is necessary and if we are pressed hard, we will answer, just to appease the masses. But it doesn't mean when the shit goes down (again terribly poor choice of words, sorry) we feel ATTACHED to any commitment we have given before. So I tried not to patronize you at first with a bullshit answer. I tried to give you honesty. I don't know what I would choose. No attachment means my answer would mean nothing. Get it? But if you force me to answer the question I will: I would sodomize you. There, it's done. Next decision please.

    We are still talking about sodomy, right?

    Right???

    ReplyDelete
  46. Anon,

    Well, now I'm confused. Who said all Sociopaths should be killed as babies? I thought only sociopaths could be capable of killing babies. So if we kill all the sociopath babies, who would ever grow up to kill all the sociopath babies? It's a shame that we have a clear use in society, as baby killers, but can't fulfill our god given potential because of the whole time/space continuum burden. No wonder I feel so empty inside. Life is hard.

    ReplyDelete
  47. I thought you said you didn't understand the "IMPULSIVE" part of the diagnosis...?

    ReplyDelete
  48. 98% of what Peter Pan writes I dont read. How bout that statistic.

    ReplyDelete
  49. Peter if you had to sow your mouth shut or your asshole shut which would you choose?

    ReplyDelete
  50. Orm,

    I find it reductive, is all. And misleading. And discrediting/confusing when coupled with 'cold and calculating' as it often is in describing sociopaths. We can be both to an extreme, true, but that's hard to understand. It's not the same impulsivity found in Borderline Personality Disorder, where they are constantly shifting opinions and decisions. We keep more of blank slate in that regard. But we can suddenly cut and run and never look back, if we need to.

    That's why I offered it be given context. And also, I think sociopaths appear more impulsive than they actually are not, because, well...they're not really into the over sharing if they ARE planning something.

    Some sociopaths are more impulsive and less calculating. I think that it has to do with how they metabolize information, ah la Jung's hierarchy. I think you can still have a sociopath that has a dominant F function, and they are more apt to be impulsive in reacting to their feelings, which are still primitive. They're the ones that are in jail. Then you have the the T Sociopaths. They're more calculating. Cooler affect. Less likely to get caught or be violent. They are the ones that are the scary 'sociopath next door' that make you lock your children in the cupboard and hide the nice silverware.

    ReplyDelete
  51. I’ve been lurking for a while now and I just had to say something to Peter the Butt Pirate Pan… Besides, I can’t sleep.

    “Ah, yes. My point was that innovation driven by sociopaths is restricted to the options with the most self-interest. It's true. You know it. I know it. Sarah knows it. Denying it would contradict almost everything else you folks say.”

    You say this like you’ve proven something.

    “If you did, you wouldn't be sociopaths. I was attempting to illustrate that a sociopath would readily take society two steps back so that he could personally take one step forward. Isn't this your collective mode of thinking? Isn't that a big part of what makes you sociopaths and not rational normals?”

    What’s your point?

    “I remember a while back, a poster said they considered themselves a sociopath, but they try to lead a good life and help people. The overwhelming response, including from you was, "Why on earth would a sociopath do that?"

    Indeed, why would they?”

    Again, what the hell is your point? I’m still trying to find it.

    “My hypothetical put the issue in front of her in a way that couldn't be denied, so she attempted to use some of that equivocal sociopath hocus pocus to avoid answering while appearing as though she had, but it all falls apart when you examine it rationally.”

    Seriously dude, wtf? You can’t deny something if you haven’t made a point worth denying.

    “You're right, I wasn't looking for an alternate viewpoint, because there isn't one. None of you will deny putting the self first…”

    See what I mean? You’re asking a bunch of sociopaths to deny putting themselves first. What the hell else did you expect nimrod?

    “Personally, I take that to mean that you folks can't even articulate why exactly you think you're good for society. I'm open to the possibility if you can back it up, but none of you ever do.”

    Why in the hell should a sociopath be good for society? What exactly do you think ANTI-SOCIAL means anyway?

    “As a group, you make bold assumptions about being the only capable leaders, blah blah blah, but nothing solid.”

    Who says you HAVE to be pro-social to be a leader? Jeez. Do you just make this shit up or do you just parrot whatever society tells you to say or what?

    “It's not difficult to choose between two options in a hypothetical. It's a matter of preference, and if you're a sentient being, you have the ability to choose, and such choices always say something about you as a person.”

    Can you choose to make a coherent argument?

    “Basically, the hypothetical was a test.”

    Yeah and you failed.

    “Answering is a battle between two conflicting images, which Sarah was incapable of resolving.”

    No one else can resolve a conflict that only exists in YOUR brain.

    “(I'd love to hear such an explanation. In fact, I've been begging to hear this for a long time.)”

    I’d love to hear an explanation for why you bother with these stupid arguments. I won’t hold my breath though.

    ReplyDelete
  52. Sarah said: "[The T Sociopaths] are the ones that are the scary 'sociopath next door' that make you lock your children in the cupboard."

    Only because the T-sociopaths want my kids locked up in cupboards. ;)

    ReplyDelete
  53. Orm, I would never lock your children up in the cupboard. Ever.
    Not without food and water. I'm not a monster!

    ReplyDelete
  54. Jim Profit said:
    Why in the hell should a sociopath be good for society? What exactly do you think ANTI-SOCIAL means anyway?

    Oy. This is what I've said in another thread and what I'm trying to get this peach to understand. We. don't. work. like. that.

    It's not about benefiting society. We benefit the human race...takes all kinds. The more diverse we are, the more adaptive as a species. The sociopath's detachment from a society is most valued during the times when a species needs to migrate, separate, steal resources and cut and run for survival. You know. Anti-social things. Pro socials sustain...anti-socials change. Maybe the rhyme will help you Peter.

    ReplyDelete
  55. But surely you agree that it would be fun to convince me to lock them in a cupboard for their own protection from that next-door t sociopath?

    ReplyDelete
  56. Orm, you're avoiding the most important unspoken question here: Why do you even have cupboards that lock? You're up to something! :)

    ReplyDelete
  57. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  58. Bravo, everyone. Bravo.
    You've all just made my night.

    Sweet dreams ladies. :)

    ReplyDelete
  59. Sarah said...

    Tink, in my world the fairy dust is not an illegal drug. But, like the force, you should respect it and use it with caution and care. And bake into brownies, 'cause it kinda tastes like toffee and that would be delicious.

    LMAO....sarah you are one funny lady!! Now that is just my type of humour!!!

    This has got to be the funniest article of posts ever!! ha ha ha wow you lot were on fire...i swear i have a wet spot in my knickers!!.....hmm...i kinda like it too...jeez im gross!!!

    ReplyDelete
  60. Orm, you're avoiding the most important unspoken question here: Why do you even have cupboards that lock? You're up to something!

    ???

    How else am I going to keep my kids out of trouble? Besides, it was my neighbour's idea. And it turns out she sometimes needs to store secret stuff in them. She's going to pay me back for installing the special cupboards, but she's run into a few unfortunate financial problems lately.... Delightful lady though. Really like me. :)

    ReplyDelete
  61. Well Jimmy, you've certainly picked an appropriate name.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUHGdTRwKJw

    "You just ke-ke-ke-keep your god damn mo-mo-mouth shut and do as you're to-to-to-told!"

    I just can't get that image out of my head whenever I read your comments.

    But anyway, thanks for agreeing with me, Jimmers! Misguided as you are, you've still managed to affirm my position and express opposition to the baseless claims these sociopaths keep making about being good for society, etc. For that, and making me laugh, you get a gold star for effort.

    "Why in the hell should a sociopath be good for society? What exactly do you think ANTI-SOCIAL means anyway?"

    Ask the sociopaths. They're the ones making that claim, my stuttering friend.


    "Yeah and you failed."

    Haha! Either you're the dumbest guy with a commendable command of the English language I've ever met, or you're trying to piss me off with nonsense. Either way, you're OK in my books Jimmy boy.


    St-st-st-stick around ma-ma-ma-maaa.... maaa.... ma-man.

    ReplyDelete
  62. Misguided as you are, you've still managed to affirm my position and express opposition to the baseless claims these sociopaths keep making about being good for society, etc.

    It’s a new day Peter. Yesterday I wasn’t in the mood, today I am. I know this isn’t going anywhere of course, but then again, nothing is. Or to say it another way, it’s all going to the same place: death. And so with that cheery thought…

    I didn’t want to answer your question because I knew it was a false dichotomy. So did you. Sarah made a great distinction between society and the human species. They aren’t necessarily equal. Particular societies come and go and come and go. The species… well, we’ll remain as long as we remain. And lurker Jim also made a good point. Even if I granted that sociopaths aren’t good for society, so what? What have you proved? Have you proved something a lot of empaths would agree with? Ok, maybe so, but you can see why that would be meaningless on a blog like this, no? Also, to go back to a comment you made in another thread that has to do with this point you appear to be making, evolution acts upon the individual gene and not the group. There’s a bit of controversy about that mind you, and I’m no biologist, but the arguments in favor of “the selfish gene” make more sense and are more explanatory than the ones favoring group selection. So using “the good of society” as a standard of judging anything is… well it’s rather limited and needlessly so at that.

    But like I said, all of the above assumes you've proved your assertion and clearly you haven't. Sociopaths, or sociopath-like behavior can theoretically be good for society, depending on how you define “good” and “society”. Since I like using presidential examples, take FDR for instance. Let’s assume, in yet another fine hypothetical, that FDR was a card carrying, baby eating sociopath. Let’s also say that he knew that the Japanese were going to bomb Pearl Harbor and that he did nothing to stop it. Over 2300 people died as a result of that attack. And yet this attack was enough to galvanize the American public, finally, to enter WW II. So then FDR, in this hypothetical, allows the attack to go forward for the sole purpose of manipulating the public into supporting a war effort that was heretofore unpopular. And let’s say he did so not for the good of the American People (because politicians use those 2 words like they’re invoking almight gawd or something) or even for Europe. No, he did it for his own personal sense of glory, because history loves wartime presidents. What bigger game could a sociopath play than the geopolitical game of war? So, our sociopath sacrifices thousands of lives and disrupts thousands more (all the family members left behind to deal with the loss of their loved ones) just to maneuver the country into a war it didn’t want to be in, ultimately for the purposes of entertaining himself. YET… couldn’t it be argued that a hegemonic Nazi Germany would have posed a darker threat to mankind and that it had to be stopped? What would have happened to America if the Nazi’s were victorious? What would have happened to minorities in the West? What about democracy? And isn’t popularly believed that the war put an end to the depression, ushering in a period of prosperity not just for ourselves but for the West in general and even Japan?

    Again, I acknowledge that this is merely a hypothetical and I have no way of knowing what FDR knew when. The point is that what you’re saying, that a sociopath can’t be good for society, isn’t necessarily true and I think I've shown you why.

    ReplyDelete
  63. Daniel, I never argued that a sociopath can't be good for society. That's an absolute I've carefully avoided, and I'm sorry if that's what you've taken from my posts. Personally, I thought we resolved this issue in the last debate we had.

    My argument is and has been that sociopaths as a whole do more harm than good. If all of those unique conditions you mentioned were met, the planets all aligned perfectly, etc, and FDR was a sociopath, then yes, he'd have done a great thing. Does that mean an empath couldn't have done the same for the greater good? Not at all.

    Your example does raise an interesting point about sociopaths, though--one that I've been trying to drive home. A sociopath is more likely to allow these things to happen regardless of the cause, perhaps without even a realistic chance of winning. Sociopaths are impulsive, egotistical risk takers who seek thrills, don't forget. Thousands or millions die for his or her entertainment, and the nation is weakened. Are empaths capable of starting idiotic wars? Sure, but statistically I can almost guarantee you it wouldn't happen nearly as often.

    An extraordinary empath is just as intelligent as an extraordinary sociopath--the difference is that the empath cares about his people and feels a moral obligation to do what's best for them.

    My arguments are mostly in opposition to the common notion that sociopaths are the best thing since sliced bread. I don't think you agree with that, so really, I don't think we have much to argue/debate about. You're generally fairly humble for a sociopath, or at least you act it well enough that I don't feel like arguing with you.

    All you folks could learn a thing or two from Mr. Birdick about how to handle me. Drop the bullshit and lay down something rational. It works.

    ReplyDelete
  64. Sure, but statistically I can almost guarantee you it wouldn't happen nearly as often.

    Well, as long as we have your "almost guarantee", that's enough. I mean, that's kinda like a fact, isn't?

    Read a book and stop making crap up.

    ReplyDelete
  65. Help me Sarah. Tell me where there's a book about that. Tell me where these people who write books get their ideas. How do they know? How do you know? I want to know, too. Please help me. I want to be like you. I want to know what books say, and understand it. Please help me.

    ReplyDelete
  66. Pathetic. You know the geneticists are perfecting gene trait maps of unborn babies.. soon they're won't be any of you left. ha ha ha ha...

    By the way if you morons were half as smart as you thought you were, you'd be busy making real bank instead of jacking off into a mirror writing about how great you are... your all about "winning"...well you ain't winning shit charlie. Suck my dick.

    ReplyDelete
  67. Replies
    1. That's two in a row, suckaz!

      Delete
    2. Nice, you're so good Alter. You're just the best, aren't ya?

      Delete
    3. If you say so :)

      Delete
  68. I am a sociopath. Where my heart should be, lies a mass of coal. Instead of transmitting kindness and empathy towards others, I send hate and emptiness.

    People are fools. Victims. That's what they are. They serve no purpose for me other than pure entertainment. I do not need food to satisfy me, for I eat my victims for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and dessert. No one sees me coming. I move as swiftly as the wind. And only when the guards are lowered, do I attack. My victims are in such a daze that they do not know what has happened. They do not know that they have been devoured. For I, devour. I am a devouring creature. God help me.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. LOLL!! ^I concur.

      Delete
    2. Ah, but you will get *yours* in the end

      Delete
    3. Are you the fatty from yesterday's blog post?

      Delete
    4. TNP
      You need to address that to Monica

      Delete
    5. Monica isn't fat. She's a neckless lesbian midget.

      Delete
    6. TNP

      You are calling yourself a neckless lesbian midget, huh? Because YOU ARE Monica.

      Delete
    7. Oh, dear. Bubba's. lol

      Delete
    8. TNP
      Why you talking trash about me?

      Delete
    9. What do you have against neckless lesbian midgets?

      You racist!

      Delete
    10. Is that a threat, rhetorical question, or you just being an idiot?

      Delete
    11. TNP
      I like you. I think you have a lot on the ball. Why are you so mean to me?

      Delete
    12. I've been toying with you. If I wanted to be mean, you would realize the difference. Immediately.

      Delete
    13. OK I guess I will be glad I am toyed with then :D

      Delete
  69. Moral systems are fantastic camouflage for a sociopath's agenda.

    Not just sociopaths, mind you, but if you're a sociopath and you're not using them to your advantage, you're missing out.

    Just look at all the politicians who rally behind this social/moral cause, or celebrities that are volunteers and philanthropists. It doesn't matter if they're using the system or it's genuine - point is, it works to your advantage.

    Moral systems are also advantageous for society. If they didn't exist, we probably wouldn't have civilization as we know it. Even the most backwards and savage cultures have *some* sort of moral leanings based off the five listed. Imagine if they didn't.

    ReplyDelete
  70. And this is the point I was making.

    People laugh. They do not understand. They view sociopathy as a great joke, as a matter which does not coincide within their lives. But it does. It does. And if you sit here, continuing to laugh, we will eat you alive. If only you opened up your eyes, allowing them to act as vessels into our souls, you would see that they are not there. They are not there when we steal your wives. They are not there when we cause you to act as puppets. They are not there when we kill your cat.

    Do not laugh; But beware. Beware or you will be taken forever. Forever.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Like, forever, or forever forever?

      Delete
    2. You know TNP..I've really had enough of you.

      Delete
    3. Rich the uber empathSeptember 20, 2012 at 4:06 AM

      LOL! TNP dosent give a shit!

      Delete
    4. TNP....Is monica....

      Delete
    5. Rich the uber empathSeptember 20, 2012 at 11:29 AM

      You killed a persons cat?!?!?!?! THAT IS FUCKED UP! Have a damn shread of humanity inside of you....... You can be sociopathic/Psychopathic without being a full blown cat killer, it makes no sense to kill a cat, what gratification do you derive fom doing such a thing?

      When one of my sociopathic ex girlfriends told me she killed a cat, I was horrified!!!!! She is a crazy, scary bitch.

      Delete
    6. I always laugh when I see headlines about people getting mauled when they try to kill their cats.

      Delete
  71. Stealthy NinjaSeptember 29, 2009 8:37 PM

    

"I feel like this is complete bullshit."

    

"Well your feeling something. That is progress."

    ReplyDelete
  72. TNP,

    As I recall you used to be quite religious, at least that's what your blog used to say.

    Recently you made statements against religion.

    What happened to you? Are you better self-expressing now? Which TNP are we to believe?



    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You recalled incorrectly.

      I was raised in a protestant home, though.

      Delete
  73. Anon below, what the fuck are you talking about? I am curious if you read more than five pages and what you learned. you make the book to be about making fun of the self? Is that what you excelled at or failed to pull? How is your daughter doing? Any recent mishaps caused by her sweet mommy?



    AnonymousSeptember 17, 2012 9:11 AM

    Monica I am so glad that you inspired me to take my Drama of the GIfted Child book off my shelf again. Or was that that dumb Sceli girl? No matter.
    

I read the first pages and was astonished to see that we are people who make fun of ourselves when, if anything, the opposite is needed. 

I have done this a lot. I have made fun of myself. I don't do it anymore.
    
MonicaSeptember 17, 2012 9:28 AM
How, make fun of yourself?

AnonymousSeptember 17, 2012 9:40 AM
Well, to just say oh well, haha this is who ii am and my parents were idiots . hahaha i guess i was doomed like all the rest, haha, i am so fucked up and isn't it just a gas???

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. sceli, ii read it a lot.

      My family makes fun of the parents, and i am talking about extended , too. we sit around the holiday tables and joke about upbringings.

      and there are serious problems in my family. SOme value shallow things, some are depressed, but for the most part we a;l have bad self esteem, to the point where we just sigh and laugh.

      It is not a laughing matter. When you go through life with "unexplained" depression, or torturing self with self deprecation, and spend years in therapy without changing what became an entire belief system about the self, it is highway robbery.

      This is a tragedy, not a laughing matter. If you were robbed of certian birthrights you must mourn.
      And lets face it. If someone came into your house and robbed you of everything, there would be a time for laughing. You would say oh well, things are meaningless anyway. You will laugh at misfortune. Me, I would do that. What else can one do after being robbed?

      Comedy and tragedy are easy to confuse for me. It is easy to slide into strange defense mechanisms to mask underlying pain.


      hthap restates the importance of healing, not repeating.

      WHen I look in the mirror and see nothingness, existential nothingness whilst noticinn others living full lives, I feel otherness, and I am jealous of their psychological health. AND I know too many people who intellectualize from masssive life long therapy (including myself) to the point of looing at their childhoods as comedic.



      Delete
    2. Yes, you lost your core self. I did, too. You need to force true expression of yourself. It is super, super scary. You have to force yourself to be true to yourself.

      That means, express your love, express your anger, express your pain. In time, you will see that it was, always, OK to be yourself. xx

      Delete
  74. That picture is from the Nick Berg beheading. Everyone should see it. I wish ME had out it up, even though I would not look at it, as I already saw it, once.
    You will not understand radical Islam without seeing them, as they are. People are such fools when it comes to this. I want to scream.

    ReplyDelete
  75. Rich the uber empathSeptember 20, 2012 at 4:04 AM

    Good Morning Sociopathworld!!!!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  76. Replies
    1. Theme Song for The Girls on SW Go Wild for TNP

      Delete
    2. Now I have to agree with that themes :)

      Delete
  77. Good Morning Rich!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Rich the uber empathSeptember 20, 2012 at 5:09 AM

      :) How are you doing anonymous? How is life?

      Delete
  78. CEO does not like chatting. He likes us to discuss serious topics ~

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Fuck you, monica.

      Delete
    2. Monica is everyone, m'kay?

      Delete
    3. Monica,
      Anyone who, having been disoriented once, believes him, as he glibly throws some impressive concepts and "facts" into the mix (They' are also good at snow jobs-wouldn't know parsimony in thought if they fell over it), becomes enthralled again to the totality of psychopathic distortion; they are misled and misdirected away from their inherent integrity and their strivings- their human uniqueness, and especially their very real suffering, deleted. He has no conception of humanity and no understand of himself - he can only tell us what he wants himself to hear. Moreover, he enjoys pulling the wool over our eyes, this "duping delight." This is not even a question of hatred towards him. He is a psychopath, a common conman, and he thins and acts like one. Totally.

      Delete
    4. Rich the uber empathSeptember 20, 2012 at 11:24 AM

      LOL! So we all do what CEO wants us to do?

      He dosent like it when people small talk? Why?

      Delete
    5. CEO is OK with chatting just not old lady talk.

      Delete
    6. Rich the uber empathSeptember 20, 2012 at 4:37 PM

      LOL! Okay Anonymous, I understand :)

      Delete
  79. Moral compass was just a figure of speech anyway. Really, there's a group of dickwads due north to judge people on what they do with their bodies in every country? The only ones I'd say are universal are being fair, and not harming or caring for people. Those are the most basic ones that you'd have whether you were taught them or not. One isn't born with the opinion that being promiscuous is "bad" or "impure". That's more of a religious one, but even then, some people aren't even religious. If it made any sense to blab on about some symbolic degradation of the body, they'd at least have the same hatred of cutting and cutters as they do of "sluts"

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Incorrect. "Fairness" is not a universal moral, and neither is the harm/care.

      You were probably raised in a culture that did value them, and can't even comprehend one that doesn't.

      Delete
  80. Hi Peter... :-)

    I find the below comment of yours quite interesting so pardon the delayed response.

    ''How do sociopaths drive innovation beyond what's needed for them to live comfortably? Do you think a sociopath is capable of taking up a 'cause,' so to speak, or to advance the state of knowledge, etc, simply for the sake of doing it? What would provide this kind of motivation for a sociopath?

    If you ask me, innovative stagnation occurs when people have what they want, which is the point at which I think a sociopath would stop. If you disagree with me, please, by all means, tell me why.''

    Perhaps your experience with 'sociopaths' has been limited but I think it would be safe to assume you are aware that two of the most driving factors for a 'sociopath', (which fit, not only, a theoretical viewpoint but the practical too)are: Want of Power and an abolishment of Boredom. Most Sociopaths are anything but 'stagnant'.

    This can (and does) very often lead to innovation.

    Also, due to a lack of interest in social (or any) norms, they are able to see from a perspective that is not typical to others. I believe that this makes innovation a lot simpler too(don't think outside the box- think like there is no box).

    I recently read Steve Jobs' biography and came across a fascinating quote from one of his colleagues. 'The key question about Steve is why he can't control himself at times from being so reflexively cruel and harmful to some people'. The book also elaborates on what his friends and family refer to as his 'reality distortion field'.

    That might be more demonstrative of narcissism. But maybe give the book a read, si? Creativity is certainly not dependent on an altruistic nature. :-)



    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Does Peter still come here? I haven't seen him in ages.

      Delete
    2. I fear my response was even more delayed than I had initially thought. Only just glimpsed the '2009'. Ha Ha.

      I've only been browsing around here for a few months :-).

      Point still stands though.

      The person who actually aroused my cusiosity in Sociopathy to begin with, happens to be one of the most creative people I deem to know. And is certainly capable of innovation.

      The comment struck a chord, I guess..
      Darn impulsivity! :D

      Delete
  81. Hello SW:

    I'm in High School doing a paper on Moral compass, conscience, and sociopathic "code"

    WOuld you kind sociopaths please DEfine and differentiate them all for me? i'm only a 16 year old cheerleader and my boob job is tomorrow and I don't have time! And it's hard for me to write this damn paper if I don't know what I'm talking about! It's a psychology class. I am doing a paper on sociopathy.

    THank you, in advance.

    SIccerely,

    Gina

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Rich the uber empathSeptember 20, 2012 at 11:45 AM

      LMAO @ Gina!!!!!!

      Delete
    2. No one replied, evidently, knowing you were monica.

      Delete
    3. No, I just got out of surgery like a few hours ago.

      Anyone???

      Delete
  82. I just got home but I have something to tell you, so all those fake Monicas are not me. I realize how much of a narcissist I am. I can see how I feel so empty inside and want people to build me up. I am more of a somatic Narcissist than a cerebral one. I, already, know I am smart ~
    It is so weird to face myself. When you are narcissistic, you feel empty. You feel as if the wind could blow through you, as you have little to no self.

    I see all this thanks to you at SW. I am not a Mal Narc, for sure. I don't know if I am an NPD. I just know that I am really narcissistic.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Rich the uber empathSeptember 20, 2012 at 2:57 PM

      Hi Monica!!!!! Ive been missing you all day!!!!! You are my Sociopathworld buddy!!!!!!

      You may be a Narcissist to a certain degree, but I CERTAINLY DO NOT think you are "empty" inside! That is just RIDICULOUS! You are mnice, kind, and respectful to all people, even the people who trash you to no end........ To me, it dosent seem like you have a mean bone in your body, you just seem to be a nice individual with a sordid childhood/past.

      I dont think you deserve the hand that has been dealt to you but I think you have learned alot by living through it yourself and maybe sociopathworld has something (or ALOT) to do with that........

      Either way, I dont think you are as Narcisstic as others make you out to be, I think you may have needed to bea little Narcissistic to be able to adapt and grow up in the environment that you grew up in....... But DEEP DOWN, I can tell you are a sweet person who only means well to others!


      Come on ledies and gentleman, ease up on Monica, she is here trying to discover herself and she dosent deserve to be hated on for that! She is a sweet woman!

      Delete
    2. Awwww thank you, Rich. Love you, too xoxox

      Delete
    3. Rich the uber empathSeptember 20, 2012 at 6:00 PM

      :) <3 XOXOXO Monica! You dont listen to the haters! )I know you dont anyway) just stay here as long as you feel is "therapeutic" for you......




      To everybody else- Monica is here and actually learning about her inner self and becoming more aware and actually GROWING from that......... She is here for a purpose while others (not all others) are here only to trash others, tell them hoe their heart is like coal, and how they will emotionlessly kill your cat!!!!!!


      Monica is working on herself and learning more than any threapist can teach her because she is going at her own pace and isint paying a therapist like the "Listening Whores" that they are........

      SHE DESERVES SOME RESPECT PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Delete
    4. Were you ever a guy named "Stavraki" on the forum, Rich?

      Delete
    5. listening whores = sociopaths on the loose for prey, mkay? Beware the attentive listener, mkay?

      Delete
  83. Where are you, Mindless Pleasures? You have not checked in, today.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What is it you need, Monica?

      Delete
    2. Well... I'm done with you. I found out some dirty lies you told me about you and it gave me a huge disappointment. I liked you, Monica. I really did. It's sad.

      Delete
    3. Go fuck yourself. :(

      Delete
    4. I just told you, you lied to me about a lot of things. I don't like people who lie to me.

      Delete
    5. We never even talked enough for me to lie about anything, not that I do, anyway.

      Delete
    6. So you never lied on SW about anything?

      Delete
    7. I don't know your game but I don't like it.

      Delete
    8. The unrespectful assholes on here mentionned something about you being all the characters like Frank, etc, was that true or are you just Monica?

      I'm not mad at you sweetie, I was just a bit angry but I still like you.

      Delete
    9. There is a literal Multiple personality on here who likes to imitate me. That is Eden/ extremity/ raven et al.

      I have been Dr Franklin Fomentile Phd and his brother Eric Fomentile Phd whom I created to deal with Eden as they were psychologists. Then, I copped to them when CEO said Eden was a Multiple Personality and that I should ignore her.

      I was a very sexy guy named Frank, too, but someone took him over, recently, and he lost his charisma.

      Delete
    10. Hahaha @ Monica

      I think you meant to say “DISrespectful ARSEholes” – remember I’m somewhat educated & English.

      How have you been SweetHEART? – missing me by the looks of things : )

      Bless

      Delete
    11. Grrr Can't keep up with this. I like you Mindless Pleasures. If you want to be my friend, we can. If not, OK.
      Bye, for now.



      Delete
    12. You're nuttier than squirrel shit.

      Delete
    13. Eden took over Mindless Pleasures. You have to get a blogger account or Eden will keep doing it. This is what I meant ~

      Delete
    14. Thanks for the heads-up Monica my dear. Evidently I’m going to have to do something to protect my identity on this site.

      I’ll do something about it tomorrow. Right now, I’ve just got home and I’ve had a few late nights and I’m just going to crash tonight.

      I’m sure I’ll be around from time to time, so we can talk some more.

      Until then young Monica Moo – night, night : )

      Delete
    15. Awww, Mindless Pleasures
      Night
      Sleep tight :)

      Delete
    16. Monica

      You post as Anonymous frequently, right?

      Delete
    17. No, she doesn't.

      Delete
    18. yeah she does, she just did it at 5:04

      Delete
    19. Monica

      Why is there an Anonymous - johnny on the spot to defend you as in the 504 post? You're saying this is Eden, Ellicit and others? Ah!

      Delete
    20. Ami, it is not Raven. Why do you persist in this delusion?

      Delete
    21. Just a guess; I think Monica is deluding herself because she wants to mean something to Eden. Based on what Monica says of herself, she wants everyone to approve of her, and Eden strongly objected. By believing Eden lurks here exclusively to mess with her, she gets to relieve herself of the insecurity that she doesn't matter to someone who matters so much to her.

      Delete
    22. Anon 7:04
      "She wants everyone to approve of her."

      What I understand about the "Covert Malignant Narcissist" is they spend a lot of energy and manipulation in "Being the Good One - The Nice One,"
      in fact a whole life time.

      Delete
    23. Meanwhile, rejection brings out the evil in them, and they will sink to a reptilian level to cover that exposed evil up with lies, and projection.

      Delete
    24. Evil is such a subjective term; what is really evil? For every person in this world, everything they do is considered 'good' and everything that is the polar opposite of what they believe is considered 'evil'.

      There is no such thing as good and evil, only opposing points of views. After all, nobody believes themselves to be evil; we all believe that everything we do can be justified in some way.

      Delete
    25. There is no such thing as good and evil

      I disagree.

      nobody believes themselves to be evil

      I disagree.

      Delete
    26. One of the characteristics of evil is its desire to confuse.

      Scott Peck
      People of the Lie

      Delete
    27. Another characteristic of evil is taking great pleasure in the suffering of others.
      Narcissists feel a need to justify their misdeeds to themselves.
      There are many people who believe themselves to be evil, Stasis. They believe it, but they don't necessarily talk about it.

      Delete
    28. Anon 1002 is not Monica

      Other people read Scott Peck's books.

      Delete
    29. Me fail English? That’s unpossible

      Delete
  84. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/technology/science/do-you-have-a-poor-sense-of-smell-could-you-be-a-psychopath/article4556448/

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Or maybe I just have allergies..

      Delete
    2. then they got Hannibal Lector wrong? Member he guessed the brands of Clarice's perfumes and bubble bath?

      Delete
  85. Loonie Tunes L'esprit d'escalierSeptember 20, 2012 at 3:51 PM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3n3MbVoLYns

    ReplyDelete
  86. Rich the uber empathSeptember 20, 2012 at 4:10 PM

    I know this has nothing to do with this subject but has anybody else read the book " Psychopathia Sexualis"? Psychopathia Sexualis means Sexual Psychopathy (Book written 1914, studies Sadism (extreme like murder and sniffing entrails) and Masochism and the first 40 pages of the book are fascinating as well, but the interesting CASE STUDIES start at page 40........ I really think people should read this book,it's like the mask of sanity but with alot more case studies that are way shorter and less novelistic but still interesting with way more case studies than the mask of sanity and the people arent ALL "psychopaths" persay....... LINK http://books.google.com/books?id=9SYKAAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Rich the uber empathSeptember 20, 2012 at 4:11 PM

      Oh and By the way some if it is in latin but not the Majority of it........

      Delete
    2. Rich the uber empathSeptember 20, 2012 at 4:16 PM

      PS- Also if my link dosent take u there than just go to google and type in "Psychopathia Sexualis Googlebooks" and it will pop up as a FREE EBOOK because it was written in 1914 and the copywrite has expired so they scanned it for free for educational use......... I really think alot of you will like that book if you give it a read.......

      Delete
    3. Rich the uber empathSeptember 20, 2012 at 4:27 PM

      Page 51 is the first real nasty one where the guy was so horny he would even rent a female dog from the pound just to have sex with it!

      Delete
    4. You ARE Stav, aren't you?! :)

      Delete
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