Wednesday, October 19, 2011

Perspective

People don't understand how powerful their minds are. Our world is exactly as we want to see it, as we have trained ourselves or allowed ourselves to see it. And yet, it is very difficult for most people to be open minded. It reminds me of the story of one of the very earliest films from the Lumière brothers. From Wikipedia:

L'arrivée d'un train en gare de La Ciotat (translated from French into English as The Arrival of a Train at La Ciotat Station) is an 1895 French short black-and-white silent documentary film directed and produced by Auguste and Louis Lumière.

This 50-second silent film shows the entry of a train pulled by a steam locomotive into a train station in the French coastal town of La Ciotat. Like most of the early Lumière films, L'arrivée d'un train en gare de La Ciotat consists of a single, unedited view illustrating an aspect of everyday life. There is no apparent intentional camera movement, and the film consist of one continuous real-time shot.

The film is associated with an urban legend well-known in the world of cinema. The story goes that when the film was first shown, the audience was so overwhelmed by the moving image of a life-sized train coming directly at them that people screamed and ran to the back of the room. Hellmuth Karasek in the German magazine Der Spiegel wrote that the film "had a particularly lasting impact; yes, it caused fear, terror, even panic." However, some have doubted the veracity of this incident such as film scholar and historian Martin Loiperdinger in his essay, "Lumiere's Arrival of the Train: Cinema's Founding Myth". Whether or not it actually happened, the film undoubtedly astonished people in the audience who were unaccustomed to the amazingly realistic illusions created by moving pictures. The Lumière brothers clearly knew that the effect would be dramatic if they placed the camera on the platform very close to the arriving train.
What does this have to do with sociopathy? A lot maybe, or not a lot, but sociopaths seem unusually skilled at geting out of their own perspectives and see things from different angles. They also seem better than most at holding multiple perspectives at the same time. Has anyone noticed this? Sociopaths may have their own perspectives, perhaps one in which they are the best in the world and a more realistic perspective that allows them to function in real life aware of their potential weaknesses, and be able to live in both at once. I actually think the ability to shift perspectives is what makes them such skillful manipulators--they can see the perspectives of the people they regularly associate with and into their head to predict their every thought and movement. Sociopaths understand better than most that perception is everything.

202 comments:

  1. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  2. I would have thought seeing alternate perspectives/truly seeing things from the perspective of others would require empathy. I've noticed my ability to read people's minds has declined with my level of empathy.

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  3. sociopaths are unable to see things from the perspective of others, that requires empathy... ME says alot of stupid shit, it often seems like doesn't know what he's talking about.

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  4. Not empathy; imagination.

    Don't let the mysteries of yesterdat mystify you today.

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  5. Not empathy; imagination.

    What's the difference Wheatley?

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  6. I am a cop. I do this, naturally, in my job. Being a sociopath is a plus, but no one can ever knew lol

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  7. Anonymous @6:11:

    The difference is the presence or absence of emotional attachment. You can “see” a wide variety of perspectives without experiencing an emotional attachment to any of them. Seeing other people's point of view without actual empathy must be kind of like method acting.

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  8. The sociopath could have enhanced perception such as the blind person has enhanced hearing.

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  9. ^Maybe. I think that emotional attachment is like velcro to beliefs. You have to really believe, really buy into your character, in order to generate the requisite emotions and behaviors. Without that sincere belief (attachment), almost all points of view become equal, meaning they don't stick.

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  10. I knew you had to be there hiding somewhere. Welcome back daniel.

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  11. Isn't that the sociopaths intentions, to cause that attachment early?

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  12. "I've noticed my ability to read people's minds has declined with my level of empathy. "

    Sounds like you are nothing but a shitty psychic. How does your level of empathy decline?

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  13. Funny we were just talking about you.

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  14. The sociopath could have enhanced perception such as the blind person has enhanced hearing.

    So since you are such a sucker,you must have enhanced emotional capability. Like being able to cry twice as hard, or being able to stay obsessed with understanding your ex husband even after he leaves you.

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  15. Uh oh. (Insert grin here.) Do I want to know?

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  16. Ha ha. You know I've never had any bone to pick with you, bird.

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  17. Heh. You never know.

    I've been lurking. I see how you've had fun with some of the people who show up here. It's been pretty amusing. In fact, you, Mis and Medusa were the only regulars I make a point of reading anymore.

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  18. So since you are such a sucker,you must have enhanced emotional capability. Like being able to cry twice as hard, or being able to stay obsessed with understanding your ex husband even after he leaves you.

    Ukanika, how come you view these things as sucking? I am confused because I thought that compartmentalizing things was a gift (even though it confuses me) I like it.

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  19. Ukan
    Are you trying to be the usual asshole you are on here, to me?
    When I see you, I see immature jerk. That is the only answer I have for you, whatever is t he stupid question your pea brain will think up.

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  20. I am confused

    How about you reduce waste by cutting your sentence down to this, Bella.

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  21. Anonymous @6:11:

    The difference is the presence or absence of emotional attachment. You can “see” a wide variety of perspectives without experiencing an emotional attachment to any of them. Seeing other people's point of view without actual empathy must be kind of like method acting.

    Pardon me, maybe that is a question for Daniel. Hello Daniel. I have read some of your posts. You are knowledgeable. I am Bella. Me, not too much on certain subjects. Would you please explain to me my confusion above and whether or not compartmentalizing is a form of empathy?

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  22. I have a pea brain? You are the one who got taken by some low life. Now you are on here crying in pain trying to spread your bitterness. I mean look at you, monica. Your pathetic. You are on a sociopath forum because you are still obsessed with your ex. It's almost a little sick.

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  23. Why, because I like people to know where I am coming from too much? Does that bother you?

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  24. I am not that sick that I cannot see a pea brain when it is in front of me.

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  25. What Daniel said. The difference between imagination and empathy is the difference between understanding someone's sadness because their grandmother got run over by a combine harvester, and feeling bad for someone because their grandmother got run over by a combine harvester.

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  26. Ukan
    Your own wife called you a stupid pea brain. I am just reiterating the point for all to see.

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  27. Are you sinking to throwing out primary school sand box insults at me, Monica. Pea Brain? Ha ha ha ha ha. You have the maturity of a five year old. Oh I can see how you ended up with the person you did. Now you are all alone and bitter. On a website obsessing on him. I bet he's out there having a great time without you. Do you think he even remembers your name? I can tell you from experience that he probably doesn't even rememeber what you look like.

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  28. Your own wife called you simple, Ukan. That is the same thing as pea brain, Pea Brain.

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  29. My wife doesn't use dumb words like that you idiot that was obviously someone pretending to be her. Of course, I shouldve guessed you couldn't see the obvious. It's apparent considering your past.

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  30. Thank you, Wheatley.

    So if you imagine it was your grandmother and you have the capacity to put yourself in their shoes and let go of your own self and look outward, that is not empathy?

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  31. Ukan, do you like to have a wife who writes a public letter, for all to see, about what a one dimensional simpleton you are, like a fucking animal she has to patrol when she gets drunk like a fucking dog?

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  32. Monica, he could be right about that, but you don't have to feel bad about it.

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  33. Was that your wife who wrote that letter, or not?

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  34. Monica you are being disrespectful. Go to lovefraud.

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  35. Is that what you thought the article was, Monica? I am simple. I am just instincts. I am a animal. Maybe if you knew that about your ex instead of romanticizing him as some complex deep character like some fifteen year old girl he wouldnt have devalued you so much. As it sits he saw you as a mark, and he was entirely correct.

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  36. .

    Ukan wanted to talk to me. I am answering, unless he ran away out of embarrassment.

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  37. We agree, Ukan. You are a simple animal a la pea brain.

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  38. Hello Ladies, including Ukan. How are you doing?

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  39. You think my tastes undermine my intelligence monica you are highly mistaken. I have no depth I just have smoke and mirrors to blind people like you, Monica.

    Do you know why he left you? Because he never cared about you to begin with. You question my intelligence because I have no emotional depth? Your emotions only blinded you. Your insecurity only smothered your face till someone like me came along and lifted pillow off long enough so you could breathe. That air felt so great you couldn't get enough of it. Soon enough you excused everything around you, just to keep breathing the air he gave you. One day you woke up and you were smothered back in your insecurities alone without him.

    Now you are buried. Buried in yourself, alone. Your frantically looking for answers and bitterly cursing anyone you can project him on. You are the one who is broken not me. I break people like you down for my emotional growth, so I can one day find someone worthy of me. That's what he did to you. How can you call me a pea brain when you have been proven to be such a fool.

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  40. Lol. Monica you're the case and point. The dense emotional poetic, adding projection to otherwise flat characters. You're one of the people who think your glaring emotional issues give you depth. You're not deep.youre broken and selling it to yourself and others as strength, when in fact you have exploitable weaknesses you parade. Simple is incomprehensible to you as a strength, thereby implying you have the weakness of feigned complexity in your corner

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  41. How did it feel to get rejected yet again, Frank.

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  42. this blog is getting shittier by the day

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  43. We got Monica and Frank in the house today?

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  44. I think empathy is involuntary most of the time. And you'd just feel bad because someone you care about feels bad, not necessarily because you imagine what you'd feel like if whatever it was that made the other person feel bad happened to you.

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  45. The larger fact is YOUR wife came on, in a public setting, and called you a simple animal, who she can't even get drunk around or you will become rabid like a fucking moose. If that is not a stupid fucking, simple pea brain, I don't know what is.

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  46. It's all true. I am a simple animal. That doesn't make me unintelligent, that makes my motives instinctual. That's why she is on here right now with me telling you how dumb you are.

    Did you do things together with him? Did you ever wonder why he refused to take you out some places or with some people? I wonder, was it because he was embarrased to be seen with you or did he just not want the girls he was sleeping with to know he was in a relationship with someone?

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  47. Wow, that's a very emotional twist on what I said.I don't even feel that deeply about it. I didn't know I was afraid to drink with you. And I never realised what a peabrain you are... how insightful. She's so deep. UK an, I want a divorce.

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  48. Bella

    Apparently you are not a beeper, because good beepers mimic.

    I can't figure out why you are so confused?

    Acting dumb and confused is just another tool one can use, but it seems you use it at all the wrong times.

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  49. Bella. I am confused by your confusion. Have you ever acted in a play or commercial? Have you ever read up on method acting? That's what it's like. For me anyway. I can get where someone else is coming from without feeling compelled to feel or do anything about it, just like an actor can immerse himself in his work, all while knowing that the character he's playing isn't really him.

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  50. There is no more need to talk, Ukan. We both agree. You are a simple animal.

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  51. She obviously doesn't know she's a animal as well, just with less of a instinct to survive. It was her belief that she was above it all that made her project a image of complexity with her ex. She ate up all of his fronts and he couldn't help but fuck her over.

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  52. Who's running with embarassment now, Monica? Are you afraid to confront the hard truths.

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  53. Wheatley said "I think empathy is involuntary most of the time."

    Right. Empathy appears to be instinctual, almost involuntary even. Most human brains come standard equipped with some capacity for empathy, thanks to evolution.

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  54. The rescue me card is one of my personal favorites.

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  55. What is the hard truth? You are so much of a pathetic loose canon that your wife can't even get drunk with you. That is a simple animal.
    We agree, Ukan.

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  56. You made a image in your mind of the perfect man and you were disappointed till you met him. Your idea of the right guy never existed except in fantasy, and he knew just how to make that fantasy come to life. When you believed in it he started seeing just how foolish you were. You became worthless to him and a object of contempt.

    Sociopaths don't think of everyone as fools nor do they think everyone is a mark. They target the weak. What would that make you Monica? Weak or foolish?

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  57. Ukan, your wife came on here and told everyone what she thought of you.
    She likes a simple animal type of guy. It is good to know what you are, Ukan.
    I agree.

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  58. Monica

    You can't say shit, not only did you marry a socio, but you let him molest your child. What does that say about you?

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  59. You sound like a pretty shitty person. How could you let that happen? I would chop the fucking balls of any man that can near my kid, but you didn't even stop it.

    He used you and your kid as a toy, then walked out.

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  60. Alright, so regarding the post, I think we can all safely say my husband is a Sociopath. I can tell you he has absolutely no other perspective than the one he has chosen to see. I'm open minded, he's a brick wall. His perspective can be variable att times he finds to be convenient, but I think that's only skin deep. His perspective is consistant in that he is searching for and deserves the path of least resistance to whatever he wants. Any variation above that is insignificant because it is only the means to his core perspective. So say he starts thinking drugs are bad. That would have nothing to do with the sociological views regarding drugs, but would only have to do with perhaps a new direction he's taking internally. So his true perspective never changes, although externally they may seem to as he sees them necessary for an image he may feel he should portray.

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  61. 'Lol. Monica you're the case and point. The dense emotional poetic, adding projection to otherwise flat characters. You're one of the people who think your glaring emotional issues give you depth. You're not deep.youre broken and selling it to yourself and others as strength, when in fact you have exploitable weaknesses you parade. Simple is incomprehensible to you as a strength, thereby implying you have the weakness of feigned complexity in your corner'

    So having deep emotions automatically means someone is weak? I don't think so. That's a tad over-simplistic Ukan. And what is weakness? Those who struggle the most must invariably be the strongest. Think about that for a change. You need to get off your high-horse a little, it's embaressing.

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  62. I don't have any children. That is not the point. I learned what UKan was like from his significant other.
    Are all sociopaths simple animals like UKan or is it just him?

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  63. "Are all sociopaths simple animals like UKan or is it just him?"

    If you mean are all sociopaths arrogant and lacking in empathy, the answer is yes.

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  64. My wife just came on here and told you that you were wrong on how you revised what she said. It's ok, dumb birds like you probably can't understand much when it comes to people. You are a animal as well monica. All humans are animals. You are the weaker of our species. People like me prey on you because you are easy targets. If I lived close to you I would get you addicted to drugs and burn every last pound out of you till you were broke. It's better for you to keep being used till there's nothing left.

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  65. Yes, UkanMissey, that was my point. Your husband is like a brick wall.
    We all agree. I don't see what the arguing is for.

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  66. It's weak to be like you or Monica, notme let's face it. You are a emotional wreck and so is she. She's calling me unintelligent, but she's the one being fooled to the point of misery. Not Me.

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  67. Does everyone, including his wife, agree that UKan is a brick wall?
    That seems to be the case.

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  68. Whatever Ukan. I am weak then, in your eyes. Lol. But at least I don't have to humiliate people for a laugh and act like a bastard to get by. Adios.

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  69. If you're trying to prove my husband is an ass hole, particularly to people like you, I think we can all agree unanimously on the matter in the affirmative. If you're trying to prove he is dumb you're fitting a losing battle. And il join him in your ridicule. And not all emotional attachments are weak, but when taken to a degree of delusions and projections they are a distinct weakness. She can't se the forest for the trees.

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  70. Those who struggle the most must invariably be the strongest.

    Struggle with what though, notme? Struggling with emotion in the neurotic and mundane way most people do does not lead to strength because you aren’t struggling with anything. Struggling with the world though, struggling to create the life you want, even if it means challenging anybody who would stand in your way, that is what leads to strength. You don’t build muscle by pumping air. You build muscle by pumping iron. Real world resistance is what ultimately builds strength.

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  71. You are trying to use terms to redefine my intelligence Monica. You are the one who suffers from the lack of it. I'm married and successful, you are alone and desperate. The contrast is plain to see. It is like the Zebra telling the lion that it is foolish to be a predator.

    Look at you and your bitter hatred. It was your fault that he didn't love you. It was because you are a idiot. You know it, and so does anyone else with any common sense. I bet everyone around you must think you are a fool. Did they tell you not to date him or did the apple not fall far from the tree with your susceptibility to be manipulated?

    One thing is for sure. You are so broken hearted from being conned like a sucker that he's got you going through the internet seeking answers to understand him. I guess if he's such a pea brain what would that make you Monica?

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  72. We agree on everything about you, Ukan

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  73. Miss Ukan, you can still be emotional without delusions; losing your delusions doesn't equal losing your emotions, and losing your emotions, doesn't necessarily equal losing your delusions.

    As for Monica, I don't know if she has delusions since I don't know her story. I skim through this place most the time.

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  74. Fighting... keyboard malfunctions/adjustments

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  75. Daniel Birdick, I agree. But people aren't born into a vacuum, from the moment we are born we are taking in influences, our minds are being forged from outside forces, this is a passive process at first, then becomes more pro-active when we are old enough to look after ourselves, but often, still, those early influences are still there. Plus, mental illness is a struggle, and what causes certain types of mental illness is definately mostly environmental, with that touch of innate predisposition too. Our inner world, is not less real than what's out there, both feed into each other.

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  76. She is deluded because she has presumptions about us that result from her projections. Those are emotional delusions and I know enough about her to see them and her weakness.

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  77. Yes we can all agree that I'm a asshole to people like you Monica. Do you want to know why? Because I distain your weakness and how much of a fool you continue to be.

    He still has control over you that's why everyday you are spending time crying on here about him and what he did to you. It's fucking pathetic and you know it. How can you call anyone a fool when you have been shown to be one for all to see.

    He made a fool of you to your family. He made a fool of you to your friends. He's making a fool of you right now. Everytime you sleep with someone you are going to think of him, because he left you cursed.

    Did you know that he's already forgotten about you. He was everything to you, and you were nothing but rubbish to him. Why do you think he treated you so badly? He knew what your worth was to yourself so he treated you accordingly. You were valueless. He gave you worth and took it back because you didn't deserve it.

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  78. Um, I just realised I didn't really answer your point properly Daniel. Forgive me, not in the right state of mind. Lol. :P But I guess what I mean, is that it IS real, because, what caused the neurosis was real, brought on by whatever delusion, fantasy or 'truth' that may have been. But now we're getting in something weird.

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  79. Drat! I have been exposed by another intelligent anon.

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  80. Ukan
    We, all, agree, on you, even your wife.
    You are one dimensional and shallow. Case closed.

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  81. People see what they want to see...

    It's all a matter of perception.

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  82. Ami says her socio ex was the 'love of her life' and that she will never love again, that's why she's still here trying to attack anyone that smells like him.

    Still waiting for her to start using Rachel and Phoebe as usernames.

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  83. Yeah, because everyone who thinks you are an idiot must be me.

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  84. @notme

    Ok. I “see” what you’re saying. But it doesn’t matter if it’s real or not. It was the past and the past by definition is gone. What matters is what you do now. People get caught up in responding to the present as if it were the past. They get caught up in wrestling with shadows and calling that struggle meaningful and deep and important. Battling ghosts that only exist in your own mind is anything but.

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  85. Daniel, you have a concise way of putting what I'm trying to convey to Monica. She wants meaning so she can't see that our relationship and my husband may have more to it than she is able to see. Maybe meaning is good for you monica, but some of us have no need for it. Some things can be strong without painting them to be something else. Some people can be happy with reality, and just because your sociopath used your want for meaning and romance to paint you into a marriage you hated by playing into that emotion doesn't mean everyone else is so easily or longingly deluded.

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  86. UkaneyMisses
    I would like you to come on when you have gone through the struggles of life, together, as married people.
    At that time, I would like to hear what you have to say.

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  87. Thank you UKM. See, I’d go a step further and say that things are only strong when they are as reality based as possible. Projections, fantasy based meaning and romanticizing are what “weak” relationships are all about. By definition.

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  88. Monica, I take it you shared your story here at some point. Judging by the responses to you, it sounds like the typical lovefrauder tale of woe. If you’re looking for pity here then you’re wasting your time.

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  89. Exactly! Projections are what you put on your life when you can't handle it the way it is. as you can see from Monica's emotional assumption that my relationship will shatter when i am confronted with trials because that's wha thers has done. Or her assumption that my husband is shallow and stupid because that is what hers was. Or even that he treats or will treat me the same as her did. Or dare I say that I am as blind to who my husband really is as she was.

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  90. I would like you to come back and talk about your marriage when you have been through life's trials with a sociopath husband.
    If you still feel the same way about him, after 5 years, I would like to ask you how you succeeded.

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  91. Daniel 12:22
    Good point

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  92. You assume he will fail to met my emotional needs through trials. If you need someone that can do that you you shouldn't have married the man you did for the excitement. Maybe you would have had more successes when it came to your relationship if you perhaps sought out someone who could have met your needs, as it sounds like yours are very different from mine.

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  93. *For
    In the appropriate place.

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  94. Right UKM. Plus, how can Monica find someone to meet her needs when she probably doesn’t even know what they really are? That’s the thing about all those tightly held projections/assumptions. They blind people to themselves, no?

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  95. UkanMisses
    You have been married for a few months. You cannot conceive of the trials in long term marriage. Talk is cheap. If you still love him, after 5 years, like you do, now, I will want to know your special personal qualities that allowed you to do it.

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  96. Some people are born leaders, they aren't passive by any means. But even they crave to be led by someone. Miss Ukan, I know how your relationship goes, at least, somewhat, and I'm sure it's a contented one. :)

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  97. Medusa, please tell me Monica isn’t Ami. I told ME that I found Ami to be "fingernails scraping down a chalkboard" annoying.

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  98. Jeeze Medusa, Ami has you all figured out. She really is an expert on Mal Narcs~

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  99. Daniel
    Can a person really know what they need? If so, what do you need? This is general talk. Can you be specific? If so, have you ever found it, in a relationship, in yourself?

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  100. Lol. I am not the leader in my relationship, but I like it that way. I'm a woman. He's the man.
    And we're half way there, Monica. Its not my fault you failed, seriously.

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  101. I should repeat my earlier statement in reference to UkanMisses' marriage. Having empathy, or being emotional if someone is that way, does not equal living in a fantasy world. I do not respect those who live in a fantasy world. I was brought up by people like that, and it's anything but healthy. I agree with UkanMisses that reality is all-important, it's beautiful in fact, and relationships are all about honing each other's intensity, mellowing it I suppose, whether you are too hard, or too soft and all the while approaching each other and the world, with INTELLIGENCE. A relationship with love, but no understanding, is destructive more often than not. There are too many silly people having kids in this world.

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  102. As I said, please come back and talk about the various stages you go through with him.

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  103. Did you have a point in that that was directed at me and I just missed it? Did you just assume my husband and I don't have emotions in our relationship, or that we don't understand each other?

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  104. Yes Monica, on one level a person can know what they need. If they know themselves well enough. People’s understanding of themselves, if they get around to acquiring any at all, is routinely skewed by misleading introspection.

    On another level, there are very few psychological needs. There are desires to be sure, but desire is not the same thing as need.

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  105. For you, Daniel, what are your psychological needs?

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  106. 'Did you have a point in that that was directed at me and I just missed it? Did you just assume my husband and I don't have emotions in our relationship, or that we don't understand each other?'

    Is that to me? You need to say who your comment is addressed to. And no, I'm not suggesting that at all. I was making a general statement. Don't worry, I'm not attacking your relationship Lol. I was implying that if you're happy, and it's working for you then great.

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  107. Monica, define psychological need. I want your definition. Be specific. I want to be clear on what you mean when you use those terms.

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  108. UkaneyMisses

    I responded to your questions on yesterday's post.
    I see you are having a busy day.

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  109. Daniel, you made the distinction between needs and desires.
    I assume desires are things that we want but can do without.
    I assume needs are things we must have.
    So, with that being said, what are you psychological needs? Can and do you meet them, yourself?
    However, my larger question and first question is, what are they?

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  110. Ah, I see. I missed the generality with it being directed at my marriage. I can see it now. I assumed a different tone.

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  111. Thanks for clarifying Monica. The answer is, I don’t have any psychological needs. I can’t think of a single thing, on a psychological level, that I must have no matter what, or else. Why do you ask Monica?

    Btw, I’m guessing you do have psychological needs. What are they?

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  112. Daniel, you said there were very few psych needs. That would imply there are some. What do you think they are, since you brought it up?

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  113. You have some contradictions, Eden, that Im curious about. You say that you want more from your relationships but that you don't desire connections to people any more than what you are currently getting sexually and mentally. So you are unsatisfied with your relationships but unwilling to connect to anyone further in your life.

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  114. Quid pro quo Monica. What are your needs love?

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  115. Why do I have to go first, Daniel?

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  116. I answered your question. Your turn to answer mine. Then it'll be my turn to answer yours. And so on. See how that works?

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  117. Understanding perspective and context seem to be awfully useful in many scenarios. If you don't have those two down, it can be an awfully hostile situation when navigating someone's emotional mine field.

    Here's the funny thing about the empathy debate regarding adopting new perspectives. Most people with fully functioning empathy don't even bother to attempt to understand the other person's perspective until it's on the brink of hostilities, or past that point. They often rely on their intuition and smarts to navigate most social situations.

    In a sense, changing perspectives could be argued that it's counter to empathy. It's requires the person to let go of their current perspective (one that may or may not have emotional attachment to) and view life through someone else's. And to what ends? I speak for myself, but itnalmost always has to do with trying to figure out how someone ticks for whatever ends I need this knowledge for. Why would a healthy empathetic person bother to change their perspective when simply having someone else's viewpoint explained would do the trick in most cases to achieve understanding?

    It's just theory and speculation, but I am curious why people with empathy would bother to do so on a frequent basis. You'd think they'd be attached to those perspectives with some level of emotional rigidity.

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  118. Not unwilling to connect. I've tried very hard to, in the past. It just doesn't happen. See, I don't go into a relationship thinking I only want the sexual or intellectual stimulation, but push away all the rest. It is only after a relationship fails, and I see how unemotional I am about it... and that I move on as if I never met them; that I realize that I missed the boat again.

    At this point it seems to be without my doing. I don't make any conscious effort to prevent emotions/connections... I just can't seem to.

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  119. So, your answer is you have NO psychological needs?
    If that is the case, how do you define psychological needs, in the first place?
    What are some examples?

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  120. Monica, my pet, please don’t tell me you don’t know how to take turns! (Insert laugh here.) Before I answer anymore of your questions, you’ll have to answer mine. Isn’t that how conversations go? You know, give and take, back and forth, so on and so forth.

    So again, what are your psychological needs?

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  121. Daniel, I suppose one could live, alone, in a cell and survive. So, one does not have psych needs, but wants.

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  122. Daniel, by the definition in my last post, I have no psych needs, just as you don't.
    Next question.

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  123. Than it sounds li ike you are failing in attempting to make emotional connections. It sounds like you have an emotio nal block stemmed from your inability to connect to or feel loved by your parents to any degree of depth. And in order to have a meaningful relationship you don't have to try not to get bored of someone but actually have to try to connect to someone. Do you open up to your lovers? Beside/s mentally?

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  124. Someone could survive in a cell, but only if they didn't know any better. It is only when you get used to a desire being constantly fulfilled that it turns into a need. Therefore; you probably wouldn't even know you have psychological needs until they suddenly stop being fulfilled.

    Think about it. The only reason we know we need to eat, is because we get hungry. This applies to virtually everything once you stop thinking about it because it has become 'normal' to see your hunger stilled.

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  125. I do open up to them. But I've recently discovered that I like to just state the facts about me, and when questions are asked that would require me to give more than the facts; like what I was thinking or feeling... I get irritated. The few people I have shared myself to that depth with; thought I was disturbed, and told me that I scared them.

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  126. -that's bullshit. We have instinctive psychological needs that can be listed. And sub divisions of motivations, that can also be listed. And they are instinctively human and each level of needs can be met following the one above it. And education can tell people/e their needs, or instinct will determine them and how high a person is able to climb in their growth.

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  127. That actually is not opening up. That's how people who don't want people to know them usually talk to people. That's how sociopaths cycle through relationships. And that's how people maintain safe distance from, say people discovering how scary they are, or perhaps disturbing.

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  128. Isn't it neat to see how Ami takes Daniel's words and throws them back at him as if they are her own.

    Replies to his question with a question he already asked her that she didn't answer, then answers her own question with his answer.

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  129. So would you say that that's the right approach to your relationships?

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  130. That's true, but you can only recognize your needs when they suddenly deviate from their normal state. Just like someone who never hets hungry (because they have enough food) doesn't recognize the need for food (let's not go into why someone eats if they don't know they need food), someone who doesn't know what food is wouldn't recognize the need for food either. They'd get hungry, sure, but they wouldn't know why they feel hungry, and therefore wouldn't know they need to eat.

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  131. Ukaney Misses
    Please list the instinctive psych needs. Is this Maslow's list?

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  132. I don't want people to know those things. People think because I have these limitations, or ways of thinking for which they can not comprehend; that I can't possibly be a good mother, or good partner. I know I'm a good mother though. I can't tell you how I know that, I just know.

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  133. @UkaneyMisses, are you talking about Maslow's list?

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  134. Now it's official: Monica is Ami.

    What I was trying to get across (and failed at), was: that people have instinctive needs, but they don't instinctively recognize those needs as such. That's probably why Daniel thinks he has no psychological needs whatsoever.

    Evolutionary psychology could probably tell you why you "just know" you're a good mother, Eden.

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  135. What makes a good mother are things that are easily listed.

    It's not some magical thing.

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  136. @Wheatley & UKM:

    I define need as something that is required in order to have something else. In the case of physiological needs, food, water, air and so on are required to continue living. In the case of psychological needs, there may indeed be things that most people require to maintain their sanity. But by that definition, I don’t think I have any psychological needs. Sure, I have habits and yes, my mental equilibrium would be unbalanced should those habits be interrupted. However, I’m pretty sure that my equilibrium would be restored relatively quickly. Insanity isn’t something I fear. I can’t think of a single thing that would drive me to irreparable insanity if I don’t have it/get it. If my definitions are sound, I don’t have any psychological needs.

    Show me the errors in my thinking. Or, show me how our defintions differ. We may all be talking past each other.

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  137. You stated, Eden, that you are unsatisfied in your life with the exception of your career.and you stated that you don't open yourself up because people see you as disturbed or scary. Your poetry suggests a coldness toward your daughter as in how you suggest the deathly relationship you have with her in the funeral rituals. You also imply in your poetry a fear of taking off your mask because it eats your face, and you have a fear of exposing yourself and that you strictly identify with your sexuality and lose yourself elsewhere. You also suggest a gravitation toward shy boys, and here women of a certain softness as a means of safely being in control. So I need to be asking you more questions, because somewhere the root of these issues is 'in your childhood or past, and im trying to figure out what that is. I have a feeling that something makes you feel inherently vulnerable that has happened to you to cause these reactions of power, control, and sometimes aggression.
    And it seems by your blog that youre open about it and looking to express it somehow, so I'm trying a direct approach. I prefer to be frank.

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  138. Now it's official: Monica is Ami.

    Monica didn’t exactly deny she was Ami, did she?

    Ami if that’s you… didn’t I explicitly tell you to go away?

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  139. @UKM:

    I liked the way you unpacked your thoughts and questions to Eden. Curiosity, combined with a sharp mind, is a lovely thing.

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  140. Ah. I’m waiting for her to say, “Medusa, where do you live?”

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  141. Lol. If I could only be as great as frank!

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  142. The direct approach is actually the one I prefer. As long as I don't feel like you are collecting information you can judge me with; I will answer the best way I know how.

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  143. I think as a mother, you can be good at that without opening up fully to your children... which is sometimes better. In the case of relationships you cannot fully connect to a person and feel loved unless you know that they know everything about who you are. Disregarding that emotionally is cutting off an aspect of your personality and pretending it isn't there. And in order to open up enough to others, you have be brave enough to expose your vulnerability. That bravery comes which I think that you do not have. from a feeling of self worth derived from your sense of. A stable home life or parent relationship,

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  144. That "I think you do not have was a tablet error and was to go at the end of that.

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  145. So I guess I'd like to know when you fell out with your parents?

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  146. If I had to make a comparison of the kind of family I come from; I would have to say the word, "cult". My father was comparable to cult leaders, and my mother would be the delusional follower. I was hyper-aware that something was wrong with them as young as four.

    I even started calling my father by his name, because I didn't identify with him being my father. When ever I talk about the punishments I received for going against my father; I just refer to beatings. It's just easier. But he was far more creative than that, when it came to punishment... so I didn't get brave enough to leave him till I was 12.

    I didn't grow up with my mother. She abandoned me when I was 2, and I only saw her every few years throughout my childhood. So as far as falling out goes; that was mainly on her end of things. When I piss her off, she just quits talking to me for several months... sometimes as long as a year.

    See how I did that? I'm not sure how to give a direct answer. The facts are so complex that much of what I know is organized, and filed away according to very specific events.

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  147. Than talk about the events.

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  148. It's a long story though. So much would happen in only one year's time. But I guess I can start with the first time my mother attempted to abandon us. I'm the youngest of her four girls. She only wanted one of the four; my second eldest sister, who I think she sees as her own reflection.

    She packed her up, and ran off to who knows where for 2 weeks. So my father started taking my eldest sister into his bed. He made her wear my mothers cloths, and take care of us babies, as though we were her own children. He raped her. But he didn't really do commit this act with brutal force. Instead; he acted like he was courting her.

    I remember only bits and pieces.
    Like the time my eldest sister busted her knee open, and my father told my to lick the wound clean so I could prove to her, how much I loved her.

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  149. Funny. I think I've always associated love with blood, ever since.

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  150. So how do you feel about the fact that he chose your other sister?

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  151. My parents divorced shortly after, and my father won full custody of my full blooded sister and I. He then moved us to Wyoming, to punish my mother, who chose to stay in Texas. Once he left with us; my eldest sister decided to come clean about what my father had done to her. So my mother drove her to Wyoming in the middle of the night, to apologize to my father, for tempting him, and allowing him to rape her.

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  152. I don't feel anything about. Not that I'm aware. I was too young then.

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  153. What I know is that I wanted to prove how much I loved my sister. I like every bit of that blood off because I needed her to know that she was loved.

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  154. How old were you?

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  155. Hmm. Do you still feel that way about your sister?

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  156. I didn't grow up with that sister. I have no real need to show her that I love her, I just assume she knows. She seems to understand me. She's seen some ugly things about me, and doesn't judge me for that. But I was always her favorite, and in her eyes; can do no wrong.

    Sometimes she tells me that she wishes she could be cold like me. She is always trying to save someone... I just let people fall apart.

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  157. Jane: I wasn't speaking literally. When I said reading people's minds, I meant the ability to "put myself in their shoes," as the cliche goes. When someone, for example my girlfriend, asks me to tell them what I think they're thinking or feeling, I no longer have any fucking idea, because.. well, I guess I'm out of practice. I don't expend that much effort on trying to get into other people's heads anymore. Perhaps because I've acknowledged that I no longer need them. My empathy has never declined in regards to those I use as toys, its never been existent, but in general, I no longer care about people.

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  158. I see now. You have lost your need to feed on brains.

    What do you enjoy doing if not reeking havoc on peoples minds?

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  159. So she gets close to people too easily and you can't get close enough to people. What was your feeling toward your father at that time? And your mother when she abandoned you?

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  160. In a sense, changing perspectives could be argued that it's counter to empathy. It's requires the person to let go of their current perspective (one that may or may not have emotional attachment to) and view life through someone else's. And to what ends? I speak for myself, but itnalmost always has to do with trying to figure out how someone ticks for whatever ends I need this knowledge for. Why would a healthy empathetic person bother to change their perspective when simply having someone else's viewpoint explained would do the trick in most cases to achieve understanding?

    1-boredom

    2-take their qualities and perspectives you like and make them yours.

    3-want to be someone they want to be with so find out what they like and do that.

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  161. I wouldn't know Bella. I have never been a healthy empathetic person.

    Speaking from experience, I can not relate to anything on that list except number two, but it is still shallow and only for personal gain.

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  162. I will add that it has nothing to do with taking their perspectives, but getting close and taking what you want.

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  163. so Jane who is really Medusa, if you've never been a healthy empathetic person, what are you?

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  164. That's for you to figure out anon

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  165. @Jane

    i knew a girl named jane. she was sweet, and nice, with a beautiful smile. what do you look like?

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  166. You hit on everything that walks Jason.

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  167. 1) Does anyone commenting on this site actually think that anyone else commenting is a sociopath?

    2) Have there been any discussions about which commentators are actually ME? It seems to be a common practice here to use more than one, and I can't see ME not interfering with the conversations/playing with us all. I'm reading through the archives, and I was just wondering if the topic's been brought up...

    3) I recently came across a definition of empathy as the ability to think as another would think in a similar situation. Given this definition, it seems like the ability to switch perspectives is dependent on empathy. If we use this definition of empathy, sociopathy becomes not a lack of empathy, but a failure to recognize or respect other people as equals DESPITE the ability to predict others' actions via similarities in mental processes.

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  168. I don't think you can love, Eden. It sounds like you've never experienced it to have been taught to love. Except perhaps in instances of pain as you showed your sister. Emotional ties are not something you can build. But thank you for the insight. I'm not entirely convinced by your story, but it gives me a lot of understanding of the sexually bizarre. I'd wondered how people became so unique.

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  169. 3) I recently came across a definition of empathy as the ability to think as another would think in a similar situation. Given this definition, it seems like the ability to switch perspectives is dependent on empathy. If we use this definition of empathy, sociopathy becomes not a lack of empathy, but a failure to recognize or respect other people as equals DESPITE the ability to predict others' actions via similarities in mental processes.

    Kesu said this. It is a choice to care.

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  170. Empathy has many varied and disputed definitions, but take the emotions out of empathy and it isn't empathy. Simple as that.

    Recognizing someone is experiencing something does not equate to emotionally intuiting and feeling their emotions.

    So next time, use some of your atrophied grey matter before you start citing theory you found on wiki as fact.

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  171. For Kyle

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-LXM5tHhVU

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  172. Bella: Who is Kesu?

    TNP: What, for you, is the difference between an emotion and a thought? What is the difference between empathy and sympathy?(<-- legit questions)
    I assume that you're referring to either Bella or myself because you're talking about empathy. Neither of us cited anything. I kept mine vague primarily because in context, empathy is referred to as a link between the excavator and people in pre-historic societies which is necessary to interpret meaning in the material record (in post-processual archaeology theoretical models), and the specificity really has no bearing on this discussion. Secondly, I don't remember which article this idea came from because I've covered about a thousand pages of theory in the past two weeks (all of which are in an unfortunate state of disorganization). (<-- Overly-defensive, probably unnecessary bitchiness brought on by lack of sleep)

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  173. Jane: Gaming, movies, studying, porn.

    Anon: People with a sincere, desperate need for others are pathetic.

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  174. I was trying to be light, Kyle. I agree with you.

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  175. Idk, Leigha, some bipolar guy with a heroine addiction or something, fuck if i remember.

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  176. Anon: Ah. Awesome :)

    Jane: I wanted to add that I do mess with people sometimes, but they always end up needing me too much, and then I throw them away. I've been thinking that I have enough enemies. And yeah, its fun enough. It passes the time.

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  177. Peeeeeeepelllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll


    peeepelwhooneedpepelllllllllllllle

    aaaaaaaaaaaah the lHAAAAAaaaaaaahhhhhAHHHHHHHHhhhhhkeeeeeeyest
    Peeeepelllle

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  178. I am Monica. I was married to a sociopath and I am trying to figure out why the marriage failed.

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  179. Jane, if that's your real name. Maybe we should do it together sometime. Contact me.

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  180. Harmony is an unnerving thought to many people who have attachment issues. It's a wonder he married you. How long were you 2 together? How did you know he was a sociopath?

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  181. UKaneyMisses said...

    So she gets close to people too easily and you can't get close enough to people. What was your feeling toward your father at that time? And your mother when she abandoned you?


    I don't remember feeling anything. I learned to think of what my mother did as abandonment, from other people telling me. Otherwise, I just knew she was no longer there, and that's just the way it was.

    As far as my father or anyone else goes, I only felt something connect between emotion and person outside of my body, when physical contact was made.

    If there were no physical contact, or the threat of it, I could not connect to people.

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  182. Anonymous UKaneyMisses said...

    I don't think you can love, Eden.

    I've told people this before. They just think I fear it.

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  183. @Eden
    You have an attachment disorder which was a result of your upbringing. You cannot help that.

    However, can you help when you treat people as garbage and cast them off?

    Can you help it when you are a sexual predator?

    Do you want to stop this? Do you want to continue?

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  184. I'm not a sexual predator, Ami...
    I don't treat people I like, as garbage, Ami.
    It is that perspective from which you believe we are supposed to care about everyone, that makes it too easy to hurt you. I am not obligated to you in any way. Get over yourself. Get over me.

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  185. This is all really toooo deep for me. I gained an interest in this because I have discovered that my sons father is a sociopath. Heres a question, how do you get away from a sociopath when you share a child? He refuses to go away and just leave us alone. But after knowing him for 8 years, I know that he means no good to me,to most people, most definitely not his family. Hes kinder to a stranger. I don't want him around my son. Are any of you parents? How do i get away from this living hell?

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  186. They also seem better than most at holding multiple perspectives at the same time. Has anyone noticed this?

    I can safely say that this is one of my strengths. I do get into situations where other people can't seem to accept it; to them I must have one or other well defined opinion or view on something.

    But generally speaking, and with intelligent individuals, it does help opening for more perspectives.

    I agree with your statement: The world is as we see it. The world is nothing, really, outside of our mental vision of it.

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  187. Wow, my first time here to this site, and it's funny I've already deciphered that Ukan... And the Misses, are in fact the same person. Perhaps this was known to it's acquaintances, and they are merely furthering the play. If not, haha.

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  188. Empathy accounts for so much of behavior. Take neophobia, for example, particularly in adult eating habits. People from a young age form intractable opinions about what is "good" and "normal" (often unable to distinguish between these concepts) based on observations they have made of people in their in-group, whom they desperately long to be like.

    If you just look down a list of cognitive biases, I think you'll find the majority can be traced back to empathy as a causal factor. Mirror neurons; monkey-see, monkey-do.

    Studies have shown that non-psychopaths literally lose the ability to think clearly and read properly when presented with emotionally loaded words, like "rape". Sociopaths don't have this problem (which, I believe, makes them ironically the only ones suitable for writing laws and guidelines for moral behavior without becoming draconian or hysterical).

    Think of all the arguments you've had about religion or politics. How many of those arguments *really* stem from religious or political disagreements? I used to think genuine philosophical differences account for arguments, but it's not so; the excuses normal people give for their beliefs are just far less convincing than the rationalizations of sociopaths for their crimes. Under close examination, most people's thoughts and opinions can be revealed to be pure bullshit--just empathy run awry.

    What I used to interpret as selfish behavior, attention-seeking, greed . . . I see now that most people have no such ulterior motives, most especially not gregarious or seemingly narcissistic people. The truth is, people behave the way they do because they long for connection, validation--their behavior is driven purely by empathy.

    Ever notice how little respect others show for you when they realize you "don't have a heart"? You see, to the empath, a person's "humanity" is the only thing that person possesses of value. They're promiscuous for empathy; they gobble it up. If you don't have what they want, you're just a lifeless husk to them, a vampire to be feared and destroyed--regardless of whether you've actually done any harm to them. Empaths are downright rude, selfish, and irrational. . . . But, I try to remind myself, it's only because they suffer a birth defect.

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