Tuesday, December 16, 2014

Camus on Candyland

I thought this was an interesting sort of follow up to yesterday's post, from Existential Comics (with the bigger, more readable version here):




164 comments:

  1. having everything predetermined is boring.

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    1. Only if you decide to follow the rules.

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    2. touché

      but

      If you're not going to follow the rules, why bother having it predetermined in the first place? Why not just do whatever the fuck you want to do?

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    3. 'Cos the predetermined world will still follow its predetermined set of rules, reacting to your non-conform behavior in the only way they know, which might lead to incarceration - or worse if you don't play within this set of absurd rules.

      As Camus said in the comic, "To win, you must accept existence as it is and still find joy in it,to become the absurd hero of candyland."

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    4. That my dear friends is why free will does not exist ;)

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    5. Nah, it does exist, it just doesn't matter. xD

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  2. Good morning, SW. Before getting to today's post I have some questions from yesterday.
    About sarcasm. I've never understood sarcasm, and when I read RA's come back on sarcasm maybe it helps to protect the self I got to thinking. Indeed, my dad is a very sarcastic person and occasionally I find myself pretending I don't get his sarcasm and cut his intentions short. He must think I'm an idiot at those times, but I know for a fact that I in general fail to get sarcasm because I have a tendency to believe what's said. This typically doesn't get me in trouble because my decision making process is not much based on what others wish or may try to guide me towards a particular direction.

    So on that note, when I read DoctorSciFi saying that I write with grace I actually thought it was funny because I used the word grace a few times in my text, but I failed to register it as sarcasm and I still do't know if that was sarcasm.

    I also want to bring the following to DoctorSciFi's attention.

    DoctorSciFiDecember 15, 2014 at 7:39 PM
    "I am not a good liar or these stories would be funnier."

    Sceli, about "they're funny, truth always is." It's possible that RA is saying that the stories would be funnier if he was a better liar, rather than he is telling the truth.


    SceliDecember 16, 2014 at 4:01 AM
    Yes, it's possible, but I took it that he meant if he had time he'd have embellished the stories (as in added lies/fictionalized) to play further on the funny side.

    Maybe I believed them to be true because I personally had several similar experiences that would top some of the stories he included.

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    1. Hi Sceli, indeed there was no sarcasm intended in my description of you writing as grace. i am rarely sarcastic, even here.

      Also about the second point, I did post on that thread a question if you would be willing to share some of those experiences. I like what you write.

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  3. I have one more issue based on wha was post yesterday.

    Someone mentioned he sits sideways to people, not facing them. RA joked that way he could run away faster.

    I'd like your takes on this sideway sitting choice. I have noticed some men do that when they sit with me unlike most men who sit straight towards me and very much attentive towards me.

    The sideways body language appears that these guys are not interested, at least that's what I thought. Then I read somewhere that submissive men cannot even look at women in the eye when they talk. It's not that they are not interested it's actually a need to hide their excessive interest.

    Either way it's a turn off to socialize with someone who can't look you in the eye or who need to sit sideways. Different level of discomfort than sittig with someone doing the opposite who stare at you long and deep (add flat to that and you have major aspd going).

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    1. Submissive behavior is the key word. It's my way to tell you "Don't be afraid of me, I won't do anything, I will do anything needed to maintain peace". I heavily dislike losing control over potentially important conversations aimed toward maintaining (possibly mutual, social) advantages, but exactly this happens when I don't watch my bodylanguage.
      It's a downward spiral for me: I face you frontally, you get uncomfortable, I try to think about why which causes you to hesitate, in turn I get angry about that goldfish-look of yours which then again pushes the situation toward a negative outcome. Happens over and over again. It's like trying to put two magnets with the same poles together and getting increasingly more frustrated about it.
      With sidewards I meant not a 90° angle, which would be strange, but rather like 45° to ensure everything will go fine and I don't land in this disliked situation. In fact it makes me angry just to think about the situations in which I didn't get it right.

      However I have experienced truly submissive people just as well, male and female, whom I try to mirror to some extent so they won't feel uncomfortable (which is easier than with 'normal' people). I have always found more interest in such people, they seem to be more interested in keeping up a reasonable conversation than looking at me like a fool or act like they forgot how to speak.
      I also had the impression the submissive ones are always more attentive and more interested in what I say.

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    2. There are different types of submissive. One could be submissive when it comes to their opinions because they are either insecure in what they know or they act intentionally that way till a narc (the one sitting across the masking submissive) is hooked.

      Then there are (what I was talking about) sexually submissive males. These are some of the ones sitting 45-90 degrees in my experince, who are attracted and loving every minute of attention they get (meaning if your mirror and sit away like they do, they'd just about cry).

      I guess the question is what's your angle? When you sit frontal you feel some of the others are uncomfortable? Be careful, you may be projecting your own discomfort there. I'm not saying you're submissive, but take a close look at the situation. Anyone who is uncomfortable does something about their situation, they don't need you to. If they are frontal and you're the one changing position you're the one who is ultimately uncomfortable enough to assume a certain behavior. Don't justify it saying you're doing it for them. Look for your own underlying motivation in the situation. This sort of questioning is the only way to really understand yourself.

      By the way, I hope I'm not coming hostile in any way, I have no need to be. I'm a devoted student of human behavior, we're all learning here.

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    3. The issue of projecting didn't came to my mind, thank you for pointing it out. I think it might be possible, in some situations at least since I'm only human after all.
      However there are regularly situations that just don't fit, for example when I feel happy-go-lucky and am in a situation I feel totally comfortable (or am a little tipsy) it still happens people show signs of discomfort, like getting fidgety, increased blink rate, changing their breath pattern. Even if I don't care in such situations the signs won't cease but rather increase over the time of conversation. The few situations I could gather usable feedback in I was told they thought I was mad at them or they just felt uncomfortable because of me, but couldn't put a finger on why exactly. I will think about the projecting idea more though.

      A lot of daily situations require me to behave cautiously, so as not to create hostile environments on accident - which happened a lot back when I didn't put much thought into my behavior.

      For being submissive or not, I think it's highly contextual, though my general tendency is that I rather be in charge of the situations but not at any and all prices. Seems to depend mainly on my primary goals, current principles, general health/stress level and previous experiences in similar situations. I can only guess though.

      Sexually or otherwise submissive is a matter of context for me, and context is subject to change. I prefer generally submissive people, most of my past relationships were with such people. I think it's mostly because they pose no threat to me even if my behavior seems to be off sometimes, and they are easier to predict. My behavioral predictions are mostly very open and not entirely causal, including alternating possibilities of unpredictable causes. (Hasn't always been this way.)
      With the mirroring, I didn't mean totally mirroring them, but rather to an extent they seem to be most comfortable with. I can't stop periodically seeking direct eye-contact though, 'cause I need to check whether everything's still okay. xD

      Btw, what do you meant by a "flat" stare?

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    4. Hmmm. Maybe you're onto something here. I think you're just asking yourself if anyting in behavior is causing the fidgeting. And, yes, if you do have a flat stare that can get people uncomfortable.

      There really is no such term as flat stare, I was combining two different things. One is stare. I guess that is uusually long look at one's face with or without blinking your eyes and actually eiter one is creepy. If looking and often blinking that suggets you're thinking something else and in rapid succession. People do blink at different thoughts. If you're not blinking and staying long at one look that's preety close to some stereotypical socio behavior.

      Now, if you add to that flat effect, meaning your face has no particular expression (watch the video of the most recent Brasilian serial killer, he's a perfect example of flat effect when he talks about his murders and his behaviors, like when he says he enjoys something you don't see anything on his face that's similar to anything a human being typically does when he's enjoying something--he enjoys murders so we're quite far from a typical human being here, lol).

      So, did anyone tell you that you look too deep into their soul, or anything that has to do with the wya you look at them. If you're a socio, I'd say work on your stare as opposed to turning the whole body away.

      In past years ME had some blogs around this stare issue. SHe may bring it up again.

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    5. I'm not a fan of stereotypical behavior, but it does look like I have that stare. I can't seem to recognize it as such though. I'm not sure if I can effectively change something that is beyond my perception.

      I was told my facial expressions are not quite intense by some friends, which actually surprised me as I have no problems seeing the expressions whenever they occur and I happen to see them in a mirror. They said it's strange.
      I solved this by actively smiling or showing expressions according to the intensity of a conversation from that on. I smile a real smile, not a fake one - I use the muscles around my eyes too which is actually quite exhausting but often worth it. Though I'm not actually sure it's always right since I can't control it in the mirror all times, plus it happens regularly that I forget to smile or show other (from my p.o.v.) exaggerated expressions.

      One of my previous therapists told me once - one and only time she has been honest with me - that I had an extraordinary stern look for a kid and that I seem to look right through her, she seemed to be scared, though I couldn't tell back then. (I was 11 years old if my memory is correct.)
      A former "inmate" (we used to refer to us as prisoners in psychiatry since most were not voluntarily there) told me I have a creepy kind of thousand-yard-stare, though he was quite crazy, suffering from delusions and talking non-stop about nazi and army stuff.

      My default eye blinking rate is between 7 and 10 seconds, often at 8, when I think about a lot of different stuff or when I concentrate I mostly stop blinking at all until the pain of dry eyes snaps me back into real life.

      That Brazilian serial killer, do you mean Sailson Jose das Gracas? I couldn't find an English version but thought it fascinating nonetheless. He could have been talking about going to the supermarket to buy milk just as well... though I did see expressions, so I'm not sure we're talking about the same guy.
      Reminds me of some distant memories, age 9 I've been to a psychologist (voluntarily) who just didn't accept it when I said I was sad but didn't cry. I don't remember all too much about that time though, so it's hard to tell what was actually going on.

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    6. Just saw your note. Yes, that's the guy I was talking about.

      Hmmm, you do have the stare. If not already, one day you'll learn that you can use that very effectively on the objects of your desire, female/male/or both. Some people melt when they get the stare and have no idea about what you and I know now.

      Are you fluid in your desire, in the sense that you could be attracted to either gender?

      I'll check tomorrow if you have responded. G'night.



      I have to agree that it is very hard to fix something that's just your natural. In a way I understand better now that maybe this sideways sitting was a good thing for you.

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    7. I was fairly interested in serial killers when I was 12 or so years old, initially because I didn't "get" why they are shunned from society even if they stopped killing. I remember how I naively asked adults about this and was puzzled upon never receiving satisfactory answers, almost like they didn't knew it themselves which of course startled my interest.
      Quite hilariously a simple "serial killers don't just stop killing" would have answered my question and would have prevented me from engaging too much in violence and killing. What is your view on straight forward answers to children?


      I wouldn't say fluid but rather indifferent, at times I tend to be more attracted to males. Seems to be rather a question of accessibility though.


      I don't think it's even possible at all to fix something that's natural, but it's definitely worth a try.

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    8. "Quite hilariously a simple "serial killers don't just stop killing" would have answered my question and would have prevented me from engaging too much in violence and killing."

      NM, why would this answer have prevented you from doing these things? What does 'too much' mean, and what did you kill? What is your view on straightforward answers to these questions?

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  4. About the cartoon. As long as the cards are not pre-sorted by either of the two players in the game with a certain intention in mind this game is just as random as using dice. I don't fall for the illusion that it is predetermined.

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    1. Hi Sceli,

      But the order of the cards and the order in which they are drawn is fixed. The order may be random and unknown to the players, but they are fixed. You could re-arrange the order in which the players take turns and "winner" will change accordingly. Or, you can "replay" the whole game to the same effect if you don't re-order the cards.

      The randomness of the dice is not temporally fixed - there are many rolls during the play of the game. If you change the order in which players take turns or even repeat the game, you get a different outcome.

      In Candyland the only "chance" comes from what position you start the game from. Chance really is an illusion after that - you are just finding out what the cards are.

      I think the comic is a riot! (thanks ME - that one's going up at work.) I'll check out the website more today at lunch.

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    2. Now, for an interesting, albeit cumbersome, way to reintroduce true randomness, one would only have to shuffle the deck between each draw - now the outcomes follow a hyper-geometric probability distribution.

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    3. Hi, HLH. I completely agree with you, but as long as the reveal is at the end from the players' point of view there is no need to not enjoy the game any less thinking there is only one solution to the game at any moment of the game, as long as they don't know what it is, it's still random from their point.

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    4. I haven't followed this in detail. If one wants to compare life experiences with a game, it seems that the rules of the game change randomly in time too. It's not a fixed game, or a fixed deck that can only get shuffled at particular times. That's because the rules are 'emergent phenomena' too. Did I miss something? Please do tell.

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    5. Hi Sceli,

      But that is Camus' point - once the game commences, what seems like chance is really an illusion and in recognizing that, one can be free to happily enjoy the absurdity of the "game" (which really isn't a game at all since the outcome is predetermined).

      I loved reading Camus - The Fall is my favorite.

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    6. HLH, do you believe that the outcome of our lives or any complex system is predetermined?

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    7. Hi DocSF,

      That is a VERY deep question.

      There is an argument (more or less the Level 4 Multiverse if I recall) that as we make "decisions" we are really changing the "branch" of the multiverse we are on.

      I don't really have an answer for that - for me the jury if out. "Ben Stiller" (AKA Sam Harris) made an argument that there is no free will and I can't refute it. Having said that, I also can't reconcile what "feels" like free will with his argument.

      I'm still pondering the topic and I suspect I will until I draw "my terminal breath."

      But, it is these conversations that make is fun. 8)~

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    8. HL, I guess for me free will and whether our lives are pre-determined are slightly different questions. On the second point, we know even simple systems show chaos -- small changes in initial conditions radically change outcomes, even down to the limit of no change at all. Exponential amplification of outcomes down to the limit of epsilon goes to zero in diffferences in initial conditions.... how can such a system be considered predetermined?

      Then there is QM too. So our description of reality is probabilistic. That is the best we can do.

      I don't believe any sufficiently complex system interacting with other complex systems can possibly be predetermined because of chaos, nonlinearities and QM.

      I'd rather not get into free will at the moment. It gives me a headache. I've listened to those videos too. I agree they are interesting.

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    9. My answer is really more informed by the whole Multiverse discussion. As I understand it, new "universes" (time paths?) come into existence when decisions are made. We simply experience the time path we observe.

      From that perspective, a more chaotic system would just spawn more time paths.

      Not sure I buy it, but I also don't have anything to come back with. *shrug*

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    10. HLHaller, multiverse theories have been around for awhile but no one has proposed a falsifiable test through empirical measurements as far as I know. There's a nice wiki article on it. Many experts consider it pseudoscience, not physics because it cannot be tested by construction (it is not possible to observe things outside of the observable universe we are in). On the other hand, chaos is an empirically verified theory of nature.

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  5. That game would cause more fights than Monopoly.

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  6. 1/10 Good morning. Almost everything we think modern and enlightened has been thunk before, at least as far as philosophy, psychology, and religion.

    In terms of the history of Christianity.

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  7. 2/10 First, the person we call Jesus Christ probably existed. We don't know very much about him, because there was no YouTube, CNN, or National Public Radio in his time. He was probably an itinerant preacher, quite possibly gay (why did all these men wander around the desert with him?), and he invented empathy. Empathy is a neurological trait; part of our evolutionary history, and pops up in other religious teachings, such as Hinduism & Buddhism (which I call the “genetic religions” because mostly you inherit it from your parents (with an occasional exception such as Henry David Thoreau, who was rather drawn to Hinduism); and such as the “Abrahamic” religions, such as Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

    Jesus is alleged to have said “Treat others as you would like to be treated.” In modern discourse, this is sometimes known as the “Ethics of reciprocity.”

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  8. 3/10 Almost any of the major religions of the world (and lots of the minor league religions) state the ethics of reciprocity in various ways.

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  9. 4/10 It's possible Jesus never actually existed. There are lots of fairly scholarly books that argue strongly that he is a pastiche of early religions. By Occam's razor, I think it possible he did exist, was quite possibly queer, was quite possibly as nutty as a bed bug. In any case, what we today call Christianity was mostly invented by Paul [Saul of Tarsus]. Paul I am guessing had some “issues” about his sexuality, so he projected all sorts of bad characteristics on to homosexuals and on to women. In any case, Paul was one of the early inventors of what we call “viral marketing.” He said, Jesus (whom Paul never met, except in some kind of weird vision he had after eating psychedelic desert mushrooms or just having faulty brain chemistry) he imagined Jesus.

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    1. "Paul I am guessing had some “issues” about his sexuality, so he projected all sorts of bad characteristics on to homosexuals and on to women."

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  10. 5/10 Paul had a lot of charisma, and he wandered around the desert talking about Jesus (a Jesus he had never met in person so he invented a better than reality Jesus). Because of Paul's issues with women and sex and so on, Jesus was born of a virgin. Now really. Think about that. I don't care if it's 0 AD or whatever calendar you want to use, camel shit is camel shit is camel shit however you stick it under your nose.

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    1. "Because of Paul's issues with women and sex and so on, Jesus was born of a virgin. Now really. Think about that."

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  11. 6/10 There was a super nebula in the sky. Superstitious desert nomads said, “Hot shit! God is talking to us!”

    This was a barbaric time. (Our time is also a barbaric time. In the unlikely event humans survive the 21st Century, people in future centuries will say, “My holy Big Bang, the 21st Century was a really barbaric time!”) Jesus was probably crucified and hung on a cross and all that vicious, unempathic desert warrior shit. What we call the “authentic” Gospels of Mathew, Luke, John, and Mark were written down about 80 years after Jesus died horribly on the cross, whining because he thought his (imaginary God-dad) was going to lift him up in a rainbow from the pain.

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    1. "whining because he thought his (imaginary God-dad) was going to lift him up in a rainbow from the pain."

      Just the careless, drunken words of a senile man.

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    2. and you're asking to be loved irl, RA? foolishly laughing at suffering, at the pain of others?
      u don't know pain. u don't know love.

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  12. 7/10 The Bible didn't really have that good an editorial team, so stuff is out of order. Paul came up with the basics of viral religion (Abrahamic flavor as opposed to genetic reincarnation flavor of Hinduism-Buddhism).

    First, you won't die. Your physical body dies, the worms crawl in and crawl out; the maggots have a buffet dinner, the corbies (crows) pick over your bones and snack on the maggots; it's not exactly haut cuisine by our standards (even if you are a cannibal like the “primitive people” in New Guineau). Animals evolved to pass on our genes. We are genes in tight jeans – so we fuck like crazed weasels. (Weasels should probably be the mascot icon of Sociopath World, because they are sociopath unintelligent animals.)

    Paul said, our body may die, but our “soul” won't die. The reincarnation religions (Hinduism – Buddhism) said, your soul will be born in another person. That's not very viral marketing, because a person has never been born and said, “In my past life I was Abraham, founder of the Jews,” or [relevant to this web site], “I was Josef Stalin or Adolph Hitler or Ted Bundy or Belle Gunness” in my previous reincarnation. If you are born again, but don't know who you were, what's the fun in that?

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  13. 8/10 Paul also said we all know good and evil when we see it (which is quite absurd, but Paul was kind of a dolt). He also realized that life is not fair. Attila the Hun had a pretty good time during his life, murdering, and raping, and torturing, and the fact that he probably died of a bad nosebleed or stabbing by a young chick he was about to rape, hardly seems really fair if you think about it. Or take Stalin. He killed more people than Hitler (and was more willing to personally get his hands dirty than Hitler, who was when you get down to it kind of a lying queer) but he pretty much had a good time until he croaked. So Paul said, “There must be a [patriarchal] Daddy dude we call God who is so full of love that he burns bad people in Hell for ETERNITY and rewards good people in Heaven for ETERNITY. So reason #2. Life is not fair, but we make it fair. A sociopath/sadist Heaven is watching the souls of the damned roasting on the spits in Hell and helping torture. Take another look at Hireronymous Bosch's pictures of Heaven and Hell.

    9/10 Finally, in this life, which is all we really have, we are “flock/pack/herd) animals, so we like to get together with other members of our species and hang out and talk and fuck and eat, or whatever.

    Paul wandered around the dangerous desert, apparently making and selling tents and helped invent Christianity. He would wander into a village and set up a tent and start peddling it and say, “Not only is this a great tent and will stand up to a wind storm much better than my competitors' tents, but this tent has been blessed by the spirit of Jesus and the next time a wind storm starts, the sand will whip around hit and then the spirit of Jesus” protect the tent and you inside and you will never die?”

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  14. 10/10 The credulous villagers would ask, “Who the fuck is Jesus?”

    Paul said, “He is so powerful he will help you live forever! At least your body may die and be eaten by maggots, but you know you have a fucking spirit and THAT WON'T DIE!” And not only that, you know that life is not fair, and the Romans are fucking bullies, so they killed Jesus, but then he got up out of the grave and said, “Fuck you, Romans!”

    The villagers said, “Aren't you a fucking Jew? They tried to fight the Romans and got their asses handed to them. Right!”

    Paul said, “Jesus said, 'The meek shall inherit the earth!” Then some of the villagers beat the shit out of Paul. So he turned the other cheek. (Being kind of gay, and all that.) And Paul had some charisma juice, so some of the villagers said, “I'm going to try some of this Jesus stuff and empathy stuff, because I like this 'Spirit lives forever stuff,” and it began to spread like a virus (meme style).

    And as people began to become quiet, empathic Christians, turning all the cheeks they had when the Romans raped and tortured them and as a secret code that they could be trusted, they wore little crosses around their necks. (Which is really sick you think about it, but after a couple thousand years became the most popular brand mark in the world.) So as people wandered around the desert they began to realize that if they saw someone with a cross, they could come up and whisper, “Look at my cross. I am one of you. “I am a meek motherfucker. We will inherit the earth. Jesus will come back. He said he would. Then we will live forever, and watch the Romans being tortured forever in a real “Roman game” in a place called Hell for us meek motherfuckers.”

    And the villager said, “I know you are a person after my heart. You can sleep in my tent, and maybe get it on with my wife [because feminism had been invented yet, this being a bunch of patriarchal mother fuckers]. And so Paul eventually died a horrible death, but he had invented a religion of meek empathic people who started the Inquisition. And then came the Protestant Reformantion. And then came Calvin. Who said, “Everything is a Candy Land game and it's all Predetermined.”

    I am so eloquent and intelligent I have probably converted all of you to be Catholics and Protestants and you will now engage in a Holy War that will last a hundred years. Because you are all sociopaths.

    Jesus is so disappointed in you. Not to mention Joseph Smith and L. Ron Hubbard.

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    1. RA - you are on a roll my friend! Keep on! 8)~

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  15. Christianity originally started out as a death cult. Good times back in the day.

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    1. Bingo! That's why I say the cross is a really sick brand mark. That's why I wear an "A" (atheist symbol) around my neck. It's cross envy. We won't really exterminate Christianity (or any other religion), but it's now at least recognized as a "legitimate" religious belief.

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    2. What do you call people who are indifferent to all religious beliefs? They just don't care.

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    3. The Christian religion is one of the purist human ideals in my opinion.

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    4. doctor SF: The first thought that pops into my (decreasingly coherent mind) is "Fanatical Apathetic. Another way of putting it is "Zealously Pathetic." I'm sure you can do better. I am just pouring holy oil on the gears to get you started.

      Actually, when I was about 35 years old or so, I had an epiphany. I realized that I have the brain chemistry and neurological makeup of a religious fanatic. Except that I am an atheist. So I am an atheist AND I am a religious fanatic. Atheist variety. One small example. A know quite a few atheists. They all say, "We are different. We don't worship anything. So our atheism is not a mirror image of religiosity." Most of the atheists I know shun me for not following the atheist orthodoxy.

      You and I are kind of a ying yang. You REALLY DON'T CARE!! i worship NOTHING. I REALLY REALLY CARE ABOUT NOTHING. You are apathetic about the BIG BANG. I really really care about black holes.

      SINGULAR!!!

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    6. lol RA, I dont usually say this but you're one of the few old motherfuckers that I ever know who has a really fucking good sense of humor, I really wish you'll live longer


      abc

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    7. I understand, it must be hard for you to live with the fact that you enjoyed being molested by one of the church fathers.

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    8. and this is why you don't have love, RA, and the only woman who was kind to you is now gone, not in your life anymore. you drove her away.
      clearly, you don't understand or feel love. you might write about it in places but you don't know it, including irl. no care whatsoever for others.

      any empath who understands and feels love can see this in u.

      loud and clear. careless thinking. this is how u end up all alone

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    9. Anon1:40

      You should go to Vatican, to see The Pope, that's where you lose hope in humanity, when you see those Christians with zombie like stares pushing and killing each other to be the first to reach the pope so they can get rid of their sins, LoL

      abc

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    10. 'What do you call people who are indifferent...They just don't care.'

      you're right

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    11. RA, about "You REALLY DON'T CARE!" I didn't say whether I cared or not. I simply asked a question.

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    12. "So I am an atheist AND I am a religious fanatic. Atheist variety." It does come across this way.

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    13. "Fanatical Apathetic." this implies too much energy "fanatical' and too much apathy 'apathetic' for a person who would be truly indifferent, and not care. At least apathy is often (not always) used to describe suppressing emotion, passion or excitement. if one is truly indifferent, there is nothing to suppress.

      My impression is that socios are indifferent to moral values. They don't care. Would you call that 'fanatical apathy'?

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    14. 'I REALLY REALLY CARE ABOUT NOTHING.'

      So true, RA. You understand yourself well.

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    15. 'I understand, it must be hard for you to live with the fact that you enjoyed being molested by one of the church fathers.'

      what's this about?

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  16. Anonymous almost 1 pm. The Christian religion is probably as close as one can get to the purest bullshit there is. Elephant shit. Whale shit. 

    It's kind of funny, because I live on an island where a lot of people worship nature and so on. I know a guy who kind of worships orcas. He argues that they are as intelligent as humans and much more ethical and have very sophisticated cultures.

    Bullshit. Orcas are wolves of the sea. If you put a wolf into the sea with flippers, you would have an orca.
    Most of the time orcas don't eat humans. Some peopl3 think this is spiritual respect. It's not.

    One, they know they don't have machine guns and rocket propelled grenades so eating humans would be stupid crazy. so they go after "easy prey" like great white sharks.

    Second, you don't taste very good. Unless you are Korean, you probably don't eat dogs. Do you eat your dog? Of course not. Your stupid poodle tastes like shit. Orcas think you taste like fish shit.

    As for the Koreans who eat dogs, Koreans are probably crazy. Look at Kim. is there anyone crazier than Krazy Kim the Korean dictator of North Korea?

    Unless it the Insane Iranians. As much as I despise Christians, Islam is an even sicker religion than Christianity, which is saying something.

    As for the Buddhists (who claim not to be a religion), they;re just as bad. Look at Myanmar (formerly Burma). I think it's a race to the bottom. Where the orcas and the giant squids will eat you. As you deserve.

    I am not really a sociopath, but if I keep meditating on it, I can probably become one. Pray for me. Pray I become a sociopath before I die.

    Satan, here I come. I worship you. I suck your devilish tail.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. RA, among other things, this is why u don't have love. no understanding of it.
      so bitter too

      Delete
    2. Anonymous 2:10 pm:

      This is a web site for sociopaths. I don't quite belong here, as I have trace elements of empathy, but I do the best (worst) I can. Why the fuck are you here? Why the fuck don't you have the courage to have a name? Where do you live? [State, anyway, or country.] I live in Washington state on an island. There are about 60,000 to 80,000 people who live on my island. That should give you enough information so you can seek me out and love me to death. What kind of shit are you full of, anyway?

      "So bitter too." Are you trying to seduce me?

      Delete
    3. RA, "I don't quite belong here" -- are you trying to 'fit in'?

      Delete
    4. No one is using their real names.

      What are you on about.

      Delete
    5. anon 2.10

      I advise you to stop with the loving thing, you waste your time on here, I always come into people like this who have so much love within them that they need to share it with the rest,

      go to some beggars, they surely need your love

      Abc

      Delete
    6. yes, especially beggars. they deserve love, too.

      Delete
    7. anon @2:10 could well be a socio pretending to be a loving empath, a certain type of empath anyhow... does anyone take things literally here?

      Delete
    8. "pretending to be a loving empath"

      no pretense. don't doubt so much, DoctorSciFi.

      Delete
    9. I said 'could be' not 'is'. Doubt as much as you like, but I am not interested in your opinion as to how much I doubt.

      Do you disagree with the notion that in principle that post could be a socio, as could the one at 3:55. Can you separate a single instance of something from all possibilities?

      Delete
  17. Religion, any type, is one of the things i've never fully understood. certainly weak people are the most religious, then is a culturally thing, people mimic other people.
    Or it might be because back in the days science was scarce, and whoever saw a comet thinking is a sign from a god because they didn't understand it, so that's how they invented the gods and religions, I guess, or might be because people like to feel like they belong to something, like their future is in the hands of someone.


    abc

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I know of people who still believe in black holes.

      Delete
    2. anon 1.59

      that we can't know for sure

      abc

      Delete
    3. abc, nothing's ever sure for that matter. We might be all RA's imagination whilst he's sitting in a cozy fluffy padded cell wrapped in a cuddly snugly straight jacket refusing to take his meds.

      Delete
    4. Benjamin Franklin said, If I remember correctly '' Two things are certain in life, death and taxes''. Or something like that

      Delete
    5. As for good ol' RA, he just enjoys his last days of life

      Delete
    6. Yes, death and taxes. Forgot about those xD

      RA is immortal.

      Delete
    7. ''RA is immortal'' lol we can't be sure of that either

      Delete
  18. Anons, this is how you can come up with a name for yourself without creating an account (dark print names like mine, as opposed to you can click on blue print names):

    In the Comment as section, click on Select Profile, instead of Anonymous click on Name/URL (no need to give any URL, just click on that), fill in a name for yourself, leave the URL box empty, and hit continue.

    I know, it's a bit more work than one click Anon option, so do it if you care to be addressed directly occasionally at least.

    Reply
    Replies

    SceliDecember 16, 2014 at 3:27 PM
    So, since I don't have a logged-in kind of account actually any of the anons can now use my name. This was a fun game in the past our little evil-doers used to play with.

    By the way, I'd like to introduce one such character to you, UKan. The other day we had a post from 2011's where you saw a lot of UKan. He was the bad ass socio of the SW. He really had an amazing way of putting the narcs on the spot.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I've read some UKan's comments, bad ass indeed. lol

      thanks for the tip Sceli

      Delete
    2. Is this really what things have devolved in to? “ my mental illness is better than your mental illness” Here, I have a meme for such people http://rawforbeauty.com/blog/relax-were-all-crazy-its-not-a-competition.html

      Delete
    3. :)

      No offense meant. You had to see what was happening to appreciate what I was saying. These were some 'I created the world' types who had no idea they were narcs, and through their verbal fight with UKan they would at the end accept that they were indeed narcs, ttally placed into reality.

      It happened several times, UKan was extremely convincing, and often out of line as he was doing this, but it really was working. NPD is not an easy to accept diagnosis, same as BPD. Those who accept their own BPD and/or NPD diagnosis are exceptional people, and they were typically well-appreciated in this community. Best example from the past would be Haven.

      I think you said recently that you're in that BPD and NPD ballpark. I enjoy reading your comments. If anything, I'd think of myself as one of the 'withdrawn' BPDs, playing it too cool at all times, completely avoiding emotional outburst, which is just another extreme. I just cannot bring myself to react emotionally, I wish I did, because I do have all the emotions. I just am overeducated to flow with the emotions. I was overeducated even when I was 6 years old.

      Delete
    4. how sweet, you're killing us with your empathy

      Delete
    5. And, I certainly have some narc traits, too. SOme aspie, too. Ukan used to make fun of me that I volunteered to every disorder out there. I just was never a socio.

      Oh, by the way, these narcs that UKan helped diagnose were initially all claiming they were bad ass sociopaths. Ukan took offense when narcs claimed to be sociopaths, lol. So, yeah, you're right actually, there is definitely that in this site, sociopaths think they are way better than narcs.

      I'm utilitarian in this regards. Fake it till you make it works in the USA. Narcs have a high-confidence thing going for them. BPDs are like the Russian beauties, everybody wants to have at least one in their lives.

      Now, I'm really stereotyping, being silly. All in the name of shits and giggles, seriously.

      By the way, the current regulars are the most well-educated, curious, and soft-spoken group I've seen in SW. Quite enjoyable.

      Delete
    6. Abc, that was sarcasm, right?

      Just checking...

      Delete
    7. No, not unless you're like RA who never wants to be included.

      Delete
    8. what's your thing with sarcasm, lol??

      Delete
    9. Hi Sceli,

      I've spent some time reading over old posts. Sure looks like UKan was the real deal. Seems like he is spending some time in the care of the state of Northern Ireland - or is that a red herring? I didn't find any pictures though - that was kind of disappointing. I like to put faces to names.

      From what I gather, you like to write - it seems that being able to inhabit various personas would be helpful for that. Is it possible that you are trying to understand "from the inside out" and that makes it feel like you might have a low level PD? You seem awfully well adjusted - I mean that as a compliment. 8)~

      "BPDs are like the Russian beauties, everybody wants to have at least one in their lives." Wow! Don't I feel sexy now. ;p


      Delete
    10. hi Sceli, you missed me?

      Delete
    11. :)

      I already told I'm working on understanding when it's sarcasm, when it isn't.

      Not doing so well, huh?

      Your remark on RA's mortality was kind of mean, but I can tellyou this. There are these Bayesian life expectancy probabilities, someone who's already 70 has a life expectancy much better than someone who is younger than 25. Did you know that?

      He's already beat the odds of who'll live the longest of all of us on this site (assuming he's the oldest).

      Delete
    12. Ukan, you'd have to prove. Tell me where you're from. Tell me how we called your wife.

      And, yes I indeed missed Ukan.

      Delete
    13. HLH, clarify for me. Are you BPD? male or female?

      Delete
    14. there was a great comment section a while ago on liberation unleashed.

      Delete
    15. Sceli,

      you're an interesting character I tell you that

      about my remark on RA's, that's sarcasm, lol, socio's like dark jokes

      Delete
    16. HLH, on your remark of my being well-adjusted. I was trained here. Absolutely. When I first got here, I actually felt I could have emotional outbursts finally since this was anonymous, online. Then in the process I learned that outbursts really were not me. I really enjoyed finding that out. I was the same anon or not. I like that. And, yes, I like writing, very much so. One thing a writer cannot do, should not do is to judge his/her characters. I need to get that totally taken care of before I really start writing.

      Delete
    17. UKan missed you too...

      Delete
    18. See, I missed that sarcasm. I guess it's safe for me to assume whenever something registers slightly mean there is some potential of sarcasm. But, then there are these sweet statements that are sarcasm. I'm serious, I am asperger enough to have a need for truth, literal truth, and despite working so hard I DON'T get sarcasm.

      HLH, should I go for Type 1 error or Type 2 error when dealing with sarcasm?

      Delete
    19. Hi Sceli,

      BPD is the closest description of my personality (the usual disclaimers of the DSM being a bad joke) and I am male. I didn't mean to confuse you - the sexy part was...sarcasm. 8)~

      It's an interesting take on adjustment. May I ask how old you are?

      Delete
    20. I'm close to your age, say +/- 5 years. I have a crush on you, actually. Thought you were a female, but BPD stereotype is female, so had to check if I remembered correctly.

      I'm not Russian. Not willing to say I'm not beautiful, too. Awww...

      Delete
    21. Meant, thought you were not a female, lol...

      Delete
    22. OK, I'm out of here for the night, have become a true goof ball. You all have a great night.

      Delete
    23. Sceli, you should probably go kill yourself now.

      Delete
    24. "I think you said recently that you're in that BPD and NPD ballpark." I'm just a Ginger.

      Delete
    25. @ Sceli: LOL! I'm flattered! 8)~

      @ Dr. G: Are we going to post "the ginger song" again. ;p

      Delete
    26. As for error type - you are a whole lot better off with an Type 1 error - Type 2 looks narc - it's always about you.

      Delete
    27. wait wait wait...what's the Ginger song? :D:D:D:D and yes, it's all about the Gingas...I embrace my narcissism. UKan's just a hater. Don't be ha'in Ukan

      Delete
    28. "you are a whole lot better off with an Type 1 error - Type 2" holy crap...umm uh uh uh....I concur.

      Delete
    29. I think in general type 2 errors are more dangerous than type 1, i.e. failure to detect a disease when it is present (type 2) vs. false positive (type 1). HL I am not sure what you meant by looks narc. Can you elaborate?

      Delete
    30. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5j1wWY-qus

      Delete
    31. Ima hafta go brush up on my statistics

      Delete
    32. Type 1 Failing to detect sarcasm
      Type 2 Claim sarcasm when there is none

      Delete
    33. @Dr. G: I so love that scene. I have even used the line at work - a couple of people even go it.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7UGjNKKXH8

      I am not "a ginger," but I've always thought red hair was particularly attractive. 8)~

      @DocSF and Anon 7:22: Bingo! You can see where that will get you in trouble -

      Delete
    34. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY39fkmqKBM

      Delete
    35. LOL! I have brown hair (well - mostly brown, some grey...) and I have spent quite a few years soul searching only to come up empty handed. Should I dye my hair? ;p

      Delete
    36. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkbawBBj6_0

      Delete
    37. Tosh.o gingers have souls web redemption https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao4fwjrmci4

      Delete
  19. DoctorSciFi,

    I'm glad I did not assume you were being sarcastic.

    About your request wrt specific stories. I'll chicken out on that one, simply because I really don't want to be out. I hope to publish some of my stories one day, so I avoid any kind of specific info here.

    Some people gave enough specifics that SW regulars figured out and posted their detailed info out here. Erin was one of them. Even UKan, with a slight chance of being the wrong person was outed.

    You all know ME was outed, but I'm sure she knew the possibility and was ok with that.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "By the way, the current regulars are the most well-educated, curious, and soft-spoken group I've seen in SW. Quite enjoyable."

      Lol, Sceli, are you being sarcastic?

      Actually I don't think so. You seem well-educated and curious and like to tread lightly, so it would make sense you would participate in a situation you see that way too. I don't think it is possible to fake intelligence for very long.

      Delete
    2. UKan'sdoingtimeDecember 16, 2014 at 5:53 PM

      UKan has to go, by bitches

      Delete
    3. I'm hardly sarcastic. If I'm sarcastic I would put a ~ at the end of the sentence. I guess I have a need to be understood as I meant it. Putting a ~ at the end of a sentence negated the statement, this was a convention created by a regular named PostModern Sociopath, Post for short.

      Delete
    4. Does that mean I'm perpetually sarcastic? 8)~

      (Sceli: the emoticon is round glasses, a smile, and a goatee.)

      Delete
  20. Scrolling through fast, and O, I think I'll read the drama today after my dinner. Need some stimulated convos to read at - and smile at. This site is like gravy on my buttery potatoes. I can't stay away for long. :-)

    ReplyDelete
  21. "So bitter too." Are you trying to seduce me?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Lol, perception is everything. I chuckled at some of the convo. No bitter, just giggles this evening.

      ya want to be seduced?

      I got the perfect prescription for u.

      Delete
    2. I want to fuck the doc of this place. I need some of that good medicine wet is talking about.

      Delete
    3. You have a crush on drscifi ? ;) awww

      Delete
    4. She has a crush on HLHaller

      Delete
    5. Is "Ukanaroused" a she? and HL isn't a doctor.

      Delete
    6. You are not the doc?

      Delete
    7. I feel so popular all of a sudden!!! ROTFLAMO!!!

      Delete
  22. Radical said:

    I am not really a sociopath, but if I keep meditating on it, I can probably become one. Pray for me. Pray I become a sociopath before I die.

    ReplyDelete
  23. This is Radical Agnostic. That's not a screen name I like very much any more. So let's see if this "reboot" works. Thanks. I forget who explained how to do this.

    ReplyDelete
  24. is ethical nihilist something you aspire to or believe you actually are at the moment?

    ReplyDelete
  25. Hey! It works. My network crashed tonight and my ISP helped me reboot it. And it worked. A week ago, our island had a big wind storm and we were without power for a couple of days and then the power came back on. About a week ago, I was cardio exercising on my treadmill and had a TIA (Transient Ischemic Attack) (the fourth I've had), so as my wife was gone I tested myself for a "real stroke" -- not very feasible, but I tried. Held both arms up and see if one drifted down. Seemed OK. Looked in the mirror to see if face dropped. Didn't seem any uglier and menacing than usual). After resting for a few hours, go back on the treadmill and did another for house. Made an appointment with my my medical team (on the mainland) and go in tomorrow to speak with my doctor's PA (Physicians's Assistant). Is that responsible or what?

    Maybe I will live forever. Ha ha ha ha ha. Probably on the way to the ferry a drunk driver will T-bone my car or the ferry will sink. Nobody lives forever until the Singularity and that's probably imaginary or a living Hell.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What do you live for, RA?

      Delete
    2. Why do people post their personal bullshit on this blog?

      I don't get it.

      Delete
    3. We like personal bullshit. Shushhhhh.

      Delete
    4. No, it's shitting up the site.

      You fuck ups need to start your own fucking blogs.

      Delete
    5. It's totally discombobulated, and nothing about it makes sense, and yet this is what you hone in on?

      Delete
    6. Try to make some sense next time you post something.

      Delete
    7. awww was dat too hawd fow you to undawstand :/

      Delete
    8. You might use smaller words - "understand" has three syllables. A bit of a reach if you ask me.

      Delete
  26. Here is HL Haller
    http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Herbert_Haller/publications

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. La forge FB, Haller HL, Smith LE (1933). ”The Determination of the structure of rotenone

      Delete
    2. LOL! That poor fucker has to put up with an asshole like me using a name similar to his. What a drag for him!

      HLHaller is the name I picked years ago after reading Der Steppenwolf. I can relate to not feeling like I fit in with polite society - I always have. The "L" by the by, is for Lupo - the wolf.

      If/when you do find me (I'm really not trying to hide all that hard), I assure you, you will be disappointed - I'm pretty much as advertised - a middle aged engineer, a father, and a husband. That's it. That and an asshole.

      Delete
  27. I post my personal shit on this web site because this is a web site which comes as close to letting everything go as you can find anywhere. I suppose I can imagine something M.E. might have to get rid of or warn the authorities -- perhaps the Secret Service or the Homeland Security -- something like what went down in Australia a few days ago?

    Anyway, pretty much everybody who posts here loves pissing everybody else off. And then whining about somebody else pissing them off. Isn't this the epitome of Western Civilization?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Make love not war. Duhhhh,,,,,,,,,

      Delete
  28. I started using "Radical Agnostic" in a moment of weakness. I have been fascinated with religious belief since the age of 10 when I realized 1. Thee is no god and 2. God if it existed is evil. Actually, I didn't really realize that until I was about 23 and in graduate school and read a great book called MILTON'S GOD, which pointed out to me that God is a bully.

    Anyway, I've been fascinated with the idea of "God" because my mind has always said, "HOW CAN ANYBODY TAKE THAT SHIT SERIOUSLY?"

    When I was in my 30s and teaching high school in Oregon, I realized that i have the psychology and temperament of a religious fanatic. I started to study religion "seriously" by having a serious on line discussion with the web site of WORLD MAGAZINE.

    "World (often written in all-caps as WORLD) is a biweekly[1] Christian news magazine, published in the United States by God's World Publications, a non-profit 501(c)(3) organization based in Asheville, North Carolina.[2] World differs from most other news magazines in that its declared perspective is one of Christian right evangelical Protestantism.[3] Its mission statement is "To report, interpret, and illustrate the news in a timely, accurate, enjoyable, and arresting fashion from a perspective committed to the Bible as the inerrant Word of God."

    Each issue features both U.S. and international news, cultural analysis, editorials and commentary, as well as book, music and movie reviews. In addition, World also publishes an end of the year issue that covers the top stories from the previous year, obituaries, and statistics.[4]" [Wikipedia]

    ReplyDelete
  29. I wanted to communicate with people who REALLY TOOK RELIGIOUS BELIEF SERIOUSLY. I began to read and post on a blog WORLD ran. These are people who had been browbeating and intimidating non believers for decades, so I was not really a match for them. As my daughter (a wonderful, intelligent, and empathic woman) is a lesbian I found the WORLD hatred of homosexuals particularly upsetting. In a moment of weakness I started calling myself a RADICAL AGNOSTIC. Then later, when I added a Google email account to a stable of email accounts, I chose that screen name. It was all very weak, stupid, and childish. (As I am going senile, I am fairly sure I will die yammering senile, demented nonsense as my wife, daughter, and granddaughter pat me on the head and spoon feed me gruel.)

    ReplyDelete
  30. In my particularly stupid period, I began to worry if there was any coherent basic for morality. (I had deluded myself that I was an ethical person.) The people at WORLD told me that the only way to be moral was to be a conservative Christian.

    I realized there is no basis for ethics. There is no God. The universe is a random product of matter appearing from nowhere for no reason. There are no ABSOLUTE VALUES. There may be laws of the physical universe of cause and effect, gravity, thermodynamics, entropy, etc. Go study a physics textbook.

    The Christians kept arguing there are "absolute laws" of morality, as defined by God. That's nonsense.

    The belief that there is no meaning to the universe is known as "nihilism." Religionists use "nihilism" as an equation for evil. "Hitler was a nihilist. Hitler was an atheist. Hitler murdered million." So they prate. Then they really go to town on Stalin. "Stalin was an atheist. Stalin was a communist. Stalin was a nihilist. Evil, evil evil.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I have no idea what you said. Are you turning in to the Casey Anthony guy?

      Delete
  31. Confessions of a Former Internet Troll http://www.vox.com/2014/9/29/6840773/confessions-of-a-former-internet-troll

    ReplyDelete
  32. As I am not smart enough or vicious enough to be a mass murderer, and as i see the universe has no God and no "laws" telling us what to do, I decided for practical reasons to behave myself enough to avoid getting executed or lynched, or whatever. I suspect quite a few of you reading this make similar practical accommodations with society.. I suspect M.E. has done something similar.

    "Ethics" or "Morality" is simply a product of evolution and civilization. Most humans evolved to have empathy. I have some. Many of you reading this have some. A society of sociopaths would not survive that long. They would rip each other to shreds. Sparta may have come as close to being such a society as humans have developed, and throughout history there have been societies such as the ASSASSINS, the MAFIA, the Columbian and Mexican drug cartels and so on, which take a stab at it. HITLER, STALIN, MAO, and POL POT have taken stabs at it. All religious groups have had their versions. The Aztecs were pretty grim; Cortes just one upped them. On the Catholic side, the INQUISITION was fairly nasty; on the Protestant side, Cromwell and his gang were as bad.

    Human beings, despite our measure of empathy, are scum. I often ask, "HOW CAN SE STAND OURSELVES?"

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Is that what you want written on your tombstone, 'how can we stand ourselves'?

      Delete
    2. It's good enough. I will be dead. I won't care. Throw my body in our woods for the crows to consume. Read the poem 'Twa Corbies."

      Delete
    3. for a person of many words i find it odd that you would not care what would be your final departing words. on the other hand...

      so ME posted this tweet today: "The trouble is a bunch of flawed half awake people are trying to sort out the worst people, without seeing the flaws in themselves."

      I'll cop to being flawed and faintly alert, but I am not trying to sort anyone else out. I'd have to be paid to try to do that, and it's unlikely to happen. Seeing flaws in one's self is difficult at best, unless one is terribly depressed in which case it is all too easy.

      Why am I here? Why are you here? Are you awake?

      Delete
    4. "Why am I here? Why are you here? Are you awake?"

      You're an idiot.

      Delete
  33. So I decided to become an ETHICAL NIHILIST. It's fairly simple. You don't need go. If I can scrounge up the money, I am gong to make some shirts to advertise my belief system.

    It contains some simple DON'TS and some SIMPLE do's. At least 90% of humans agree on this in principle, even though we are quite incompetent at following it.

    [By the way, Ginger, of course I am a troll. Your point is?]

    DON'TS:
    Don't murder. Don't torture. Don't Rape.

    DO'S:

    HELP PEOPLE:

    When it's feasible.
    When it's practical.
    When it's sensible.
    When it's fun.

    That's an atheist, nihilist morality. With a little luck, even if your a psychopath or a sociopath, it will keep you out of trouble and let you "pass" for normal, constructive, and empathic in a society of naive fools.

    Nothing to it.

    In the end we all die. I am going to bed now. Tomorrow I am going to go to the doctor. Say something entertaining while I am gone. Dr. Ginger, bite me.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I dunno, I couldn't get through it all...too long. Ima go troll an MRA site now..

      Delete
  34. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  35. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=my7sxZ0KfHU

    ReplyDelete
  36. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Denis Leary - Asshole (Uncensored Version)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrgpZ0fUixs

    Happy Christmas, Think this is quite fitting

    ReplyDelete

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